Should Pokémon Have Stayed 2D?
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- What if Pokémon Games stayed 2D and Game Freak continued to hone the Sprite Style they started off with...
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Personally I think that the 3d models where good for X and Y but should have been at least updated by now. Especially with the switch to "The Switch"
A couple of them have, but it’s been 10 years. No other franchise uses 10 year old models for anything nowadays
You didn't play SV?
@@rcthekinglol7973 I have played SV, I like the games yet most of the models have not been updated and still use the same idol poses which by now I think are quite boring. I appreciate the updates to the textures thoes look beautiful.
Yea I think the 2D-HD fits pokemon now more than the 3D because of the amount of Pokemon they have to work on. 3d side games like legends or colosseum XD makes more sense to me because they have a lot more focus but I can see the other side of the argument.
so many of the models have been updates in sv, along with given new animations a textures. a really great step in the right direction imo
I think they should've gone 2.5D like how octopath traveller 1 and 2 are, that would've worked really well I feel
If they made an Octopath Traveller Style MID-Generation Game with that same look, I would so much rather spend $70 on that than $60 on a broken, unfinished, motion sick causing "open-world" mess like S/V
Black and white had a very similar style to 2.5D
@@diegocaceres3475 yeah some bits for sure, but most of it was 2D still, I feel like they were experimenting and seeing whether the fans would like 2.5D or not
That would like shit
I liked when Pokémon Legends Arceus and Scarlet and Violet gave different Pokémon sizes. You can have a big Pikachu and a small Pikachu. 2D sprites didn't have that. Also overworld Pokémon too. Still love the BW models though.
don't forget Lets Go games
If you did that in the 2D games the Pokémon would look really off because of the different pixel sizes
No. If Pokemon did stay 2D or at least 2.5D with pixel art graphics it still would've been possible to make the pixel arts bigger and smaller.
@@Sacred_Sword but they weren't scaled to their sizes, for example Palkia's Origin form is so tall that it's out of the screen in most cases during battles, it works in 3D but would feel incomplete in 2D
@@theamazingspooderman2697 I don't know what you mean by this. If a modern game came out with 2.5D graphics the low resolution pixel graphics would leave a lot of pixels and space to increase and decrease models in size.
As for Pokemon that are so tall they can't fit the whole screen...I don't get this point. Just make the camera move. Once again bringing up Gen 5 but Black & White made the camera move during battle. A Pokemon's face can still be cut off by the top of the screen but the camera can still move so that the player can see.
Also off topic and just taking this out of context but I love the irony in the statement "it works in 3D but would feel incomplete in 2D" as if a majority of the modern games aren't incomplete.
The problem: Every generation was noted by increased quality to the sprites making them feel more unique, alive and full of personality. It really kept things fresh.
I think that's why X&Y are acceptable to so many people, because we all assumed that was just the start of 3D pokemon. Kinda how we don't mind the stale sprites from Red and Blue. But after like 10 years of no noticable improvement to the animations I feel we're all kinda over it.
Pretty much this. X/Y were actually revolutionary back in the day, cutting edge that pushed the limits of what could even be rendered on the 3ds. Shitting on X/Y as having "always" been bad, is much more so a case of modern historical revisionism. It's people unsatisfied with by stagnation in the franchise looking for something they can blame as were everything started going downhill.
Yes, X/Y had their shortcomings, especially where the story was concerned, but quite honestly so did Ruby/Sapphire and Diamond/Pearl. The positive legacy of those two generations is far more due to their respective third versions, Emerald and Platinum, and likely would have been just as true for Gen6 if a Z version had actually happened back then.
They should have stuck with 2D until they were 100% sure they can give us the best 3D experience possible because so far its been a sad fail in my opinion
(Except Ledgends Arceus)
Nothing compares to black and white era with what we have now because that era was the best imo, and Arceus is definitely the only exception loll
ehhhh I got to be frank the 2d is way better for handheld games compared to the 3D aspect. I'm not saying it couldn't wok and can be appropriate on console based iterations of the series like colosseum etc. however really 2d is just the way to go. Part of my reason not to get into the updated titles is the 3d aspect just doesn't mesh well in my opinion.
People were litearlly shitting on gamefreak for staying 2d during the wii era. Its funny to see how the narrative changed once they turned 3d now lmao
@@raidexe fuck bw 2nd worse gen behind gen 7
pokemon fans have such bad takes, 2D mons don't even have an attack animation what joy did u got from them? 3D mons have both attack and special attack animations
I think if they kinda took the borderlands route and kept the black outlines so that models looked more cartoonish and maybe even cell shading people would like it more. It would be a great middle ground
YESSSS XY CELL SHADING LOOKED SICK GIVE IT BACKK
I'm absolutely down for more video-essay-style videos about Pokemon
I think the Biggest thing that made sprites so cool was that they changed game to game. So you got to see your favorite pokemon in a new style every time a game came out. But now that they have 3d Models premade to port into the next game you kinda loose that style change. SV did some remedy to that by giving some texturing to alot of Pokemon which is definitely a step forward, but between gen 6 - gen 9 alot of the pokemon still feel the same. I do hope thete is a future where Pokemon can put some of the ART back into their games. But we wil have to see
i think it's just the reality of 3d models are harder to make those small details that were changed each gen in the earlier game much harder to notice, as they're 3d, compared to 2d where you get a still gif that isn't operating on a 3rd axis to skip over the new details they would have added
I loved the black and white sprites and how they moved
they don't even have an attack animation, boring
@@theamazingspooderman2697 The way they moved was still better than the "high quality animations" that we have now.
@@Sacred_Swordthem doing an idle animation isn't better
@@Sacred_Sword Pyro Ball's animation from SWSH literally beats the entirety of these moving animations
@@times1095 Them doing an idle animation IS better. The 2D sprites moving along with the lively animations filled Pokemon with more life than any 3D model and move animation that exists right now. A majority of Pokemon that transitioned over to 3D lost a lot of personality and charm that came from those idle animations. A decent portion of them were arguably butchered by the transition like Typhlosion and Eelektross.
Y'know I wouldn't make this argument if the animations and 3D models were actually good and if they topped the 2D sprites. If instead of going the path X&Y did with 3D they should've commit to the 2.5D art style they built up to for the first five generations. It could've made Pokemon games look so much better. It's brought up so much in conversations about this but look at Octopath Traveler. The thought of having a modern Pokemon game in the 2.5D art style would make the games look so much more unique.
I'm hoping (and thinking as Nintendo sometimes does listen to fans) that the B&W remakes will be 2D. Imagine how cool that would be.
They messed up gen 1 remakes and gen 4 remakes. Hopefully they learn.
@@macuser7048 Hope so too. I agree that gen 4 was a screw up, but I'm wondering, why do you think that about the gen 1 remakes?
@@SchoolWok24I’m guessing they mean the Let’s Go games
@@marctang3802 Ofc! That makes sense. I was thinking about FireRed and LeafGreen
if they listen to consumers (not fans) they won't make these abomination of remakes
Wow, I think you described this entire situation in a perfect way. I think it's interesting, seeing both sides of the story. So yeah, great video!
If they want 3D then they need more staff, a higher budget, and a longer development period. The 3D models honestly aren't that bad so I don't mind them re-using them.
As for the humanoid starters, they're more marketable as characters. A thing I've noticed is that Pokemon are designed moreso as characters than they are creatures - for example, Pidgey is a bird and it evolves into a bigger bird. A lot of "normal" Pokemon _are_ creatures, but the marketable merchsellers who get to be in Smash will almost certainly be humanoid.
The problem: Bigger Staff and higher budgets don’t equal good games. Look no further than those buffoons. They already have a big team and the funny thing about that is ideas tend to get lost with a large group.
But wouldn’t more creature and less humanoid type pokémon be more marketable as creatures? Nobody wants to buy a human plushy, they would rather buy something like jigglypuff or pikachu
Humanoid final evolutions means it's easier for Smash reps.
@@infinityheart_tm9270 200 developers and one year of development is nothing for the 3rd biggest video game franchise
@@TheGalaxyWingsGamefreak only has 138 employees at the moment.
My biggest issue with the newer pokémon games is just how reliant they have gotten on other players. Meaning that if I started playing a newer pokémon game 'late' because I couldn't afford it before I would miss out on all kinds of features because there are too few people playing them years after the game came out. I really liked the friend safari from x and y but a new player would not get to experience it properly unless they happened to find other random ass people who still play it now. (also paywalls suck!)
Yeah this was funny, especially whenever I went travelling and seeing diffeeent languages pop up
and the world and models that sucks like the groundo in scarlet, even genshin impact ground is better the rock models the dirt models the pokemon models are fine but the open world models is kinda bad
That dolphin Pokemon is unownable once the servers get tossed
You can really tell how much thought you put into the script for this one, a good argument for sure
Yooooooo
Hey, what's up? I'm currently watching your Rain Code gameplay. Big fan
I loved the art style in Colosseum/XD, they worked really well and still stand up 20 years later! No idea why they don't go back to something like that!
Still the best 3D pokemon games, without a doubt.
I like your idea of a “demake” like the first 5 gens get remakes to become 3D while gen 6 and after get “demakes” and this way every Pokémon game will have a 3D and a 2D option to play it
Hand drawn approach looks wonderful and works with Sugimori's art style. That needs to be a thing.
I think they should keep main line games 3D but make 2D side games.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Same! Would be amazing to see their take on modern sprite style
I would actually like to see that some day. Even though people find anything to complain about this could maybe get rid of some of the complaints.
The thing is that this 2d argument is in fact a quality argument in disguise because the switch to 3D aligns with stuff like the permanent deprioritization of non-gameplay and competitive elements until Gen 9, the bugs, the untenable work schedule, the less appealing Overworld culminating in the beautifully generic Paldea, the shoddy coding and texturing, and a weird ambition that is impossible for Game Freak (assuming a good work culture). So while there may be things to like about Kalos, Alola, Galar, or Paldea, that is why those who seriously bring up 2d Pokémon will always say 2d Pokémon is worth it.
Thus, the only better method to many bringing up this issue would be permanent 2d Pokémon or that they would have never switched at all.
Other way around imo
I gotta give Munch serious props. This man puts so much effort into editing despite not getting the views he used to. Keep it up man you are the true OG Poketuber!
I think one of the drawbacks of the 3D models is that it's harder to convey personality. Up to Gen V, it was easy for me to project a personality onto a Pokemon based on just how its sprite is drawn, whereas whenever I look at later gens I just think "yep, that's a monster alright"
what personality? that they jumped around like almost every mon does in Gen 5's moving sprites?
I like 3D because we see pokemon actually use moves, Pyro Ball, Samurott using its sword to attack, Bulbasaur or Serperior using its wines to attack, we never saw that on 2D but we see them in 3D when pokemons attack
@@theamazingspooderman2697yeah but what about Blastoise shooting out *both* of it’s water cannons?
@@goGothitaLOL why are u fixated on one pokemon and fail to see other good things?
??? Bro you actually get to interact with your mons in the 3d and see them have different emotions. Even in their walking animations they have more personality than the 2d sprires. Some notable examples are kingambit, crogunk, ququaval, venusaur
@@theamazingspooderman2697 blastoise doesnt use its cannons, no pokemon use their feet to kick. (they just move up and down) and many more. gen 5 battle sprites showed emotion and were way better.
Loved hearing you chat, Mo. Been a fan for as long as you’ve been making contact. Really excited to see you make more videos like this. Keep it up!
This is a great discussion. I also like the footage you used! Underrated video
Great video, always loved these video essay/non letsplay videos of yours
I think the smooth design of 3d pokemon gives more child-like feels than the pixel one.
I really like love how colorful vibrant looking the professors lab your house and such end up looking like in the games i wish they would keep doing that for future pokemon games
i think doing a mix of 2d & 3d like black & white would be perfect tbh it just suits the play style more, the last 2 gens haven’t felt like pokémon games
5:08 "we all fell in love with" * proceeds to show a gardevoir which uh some people down bad
Now to their credit the dev cycle doesn’t allow for much time for proper full proof games to come out in a year and given the reviews from former employee tells that they don’t hold on to old content and are content with how the series is selling not to mention gamefreak being described as being three gens behind the game industry as a whole
I like a mix of both. In gen 6 we had 3D models with an outline gradient that was pixelated by the 3DS screen resolution which helped it to connect to the 2D sprite style, as apposed to newer games where the outline gradient is completely removed, removing that connection between the two styles and going *FULL* 3D
I'm glad they removed those, I was team 2D when Gen 6 was released but after PLA and SV, I'm team 3D
I miss that 3D style with outlines. I prefer that style way more than one we have now with the outlines removed
Have you played the Mario and Luigi 3ds games? they have the same 2d sprites on 3d world style, It would he interesting if they went in that direction:
ruclips.net/video/MNWLEGPXra8/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/rFlA4zmQLO8/видео.html
A large hurdle is the hundreds of 3D models and animations necessary for the 3D titles. Had gamefreak stopped producing a new game each year and slowed their role I’m sure the transition to 3D wouldn’t have been as rough.
this man really thought he would say that the cut of National Dex was a good change, and we wouldn't notice ?
I know right
we're only thinking about this because 3D pokemon failed to satisfy us fans. if those 3D models weren't so lazily animated and has more personality and much more expressive, we won't be minding it too much
I only played hack gba pokemon games when I was younger. So when the Switch came out years ago and alongside with the different Pokemon games, I only watched on your playthroughs !!! Fast forward to 4 years, I bought my own Switch Lite and currently playing Pokemon Shield. I absolutely loved it. So thank you Munch !!! I also plan to name some of my mons from the drag race franchise . 🤭🤭🤭
There was a game once where there was an option of switching between 2D and 3D artstyle.
🔥🔥🔥 love these types of video!! Well done 💪
They also need to make sure that when they’re games release there’s little to no bugs
bro doesn't know 2D games had bugs too like u could enter the void in Sinnoh games
Ok so I have some thoughts on this whole topic, my first game was white 2 so I started out at the tail end of the 3D era so I don't have much bias towards the spritework, though I have played some of the older games since. I personally like the 2D artstyle of gen 5 specifically the most for one key reason. The sprites are animated. That alone just gives so much life to all of the pokemon in my opinion.
I think the change to 3D was nessessary to evolve with the times, though I personally would have loved to see an approach like octopath I still think going full 3D was the right call. I have many issues with 3D though, for starters pretty much every pokemon got desaturated in the shift and lost a lot of their vibrance and kinda sucked some of the life out of them imo. The other thing, (which I give the pass on for gen 6 and even 7 because of the amount of work it would take with a full national dex and then in gen 6 they already had to make every mon 3D) is that they are just literally just stand there with an idle animation. That combined with the desaturation just makes them look kinda lifeless to me. At least when compared to 2D. In reality they are battling, in combat, ready to fight, and I think they should be in some more interesting poses and animations for that reason. And some pokemon would really benefit from that like typhlosion. There are a very small few that don't have this problem but even those mons could use to work, I think Legends Arceus hit right on the mark with this and it really felt more immersive seeing those poses and animations.
On the topic of open-world, I have to admit I have been on the bandwagon of wanting an open world pokemon game for a very long time, but scarlet and violet really wasn't exactly what I was hoping for. And I agree with what MO said about the routes feeling more polished and fleshed out vs open world just being kinda random. And I would prefer the route system more if this is going to be the new standard. I actually like Scarlet and Violet a lot but there is just some charm missing from it, even small things like not being able to go inside buildings just adds up. I was more hoping for an open-world approach similar to how Zelda did it, (and yes I know that botw and totk are an extremely high standard) I think zelda managed to make it be open world while not having it seem like stuff is just randomly placed around and the world still feels very immersive and like theres always something to find or do when you play, which are aspects I think scarlet and violet lack in.
Tldr: They should have made the 3D models have more dynamic poses and animations by the time they switched to well, the switch, especially considering the dex cut. Open-world is nice but needs some improvement to feel more immersive and fleshed out instead of just random objects spread around large plots of land, or just stick to the old route system.
Ty for taking the time to read this and I'd love to talk with anyone on this topic.
Pokemon now is continuing to get closer to how 3D Pokemon can be. We're behind for many reasons. Most obvious being time constraints and GameFreak just starting in the 3D Era. It has been 10 years by now since the full shift to 3D, but it has been 14 years by the time Black and White release working on sprite work. Next Gen most likely coming out 2026 could be really great. We'll have a 4 year development time. Now as for color it is unfortunate, but it is likely the models desaturation isn't tied to 3D and may have happened to the 2D sprites as well. Since Gen 6 they decided to make the colors follow more closely to Ken Sugimori's artwork. Which you can see this come into effect across the board outside the mainline games. Smash Bros did it, spin offs started doing it, and more. In fact you can see the shift because even Pokedex 3D has the same models Creature has had for years but more colorful. It's an unfortunate shift.
Dog watching your videos is a trip down memory lane. I haven’t heard from your channel for like 8 years. Love you man.
Just tried showing a friend pokemon 3d and accidentally found your video. I can’t believe those videos themselves are 10 years old. I missed you man.
Bro I ain't watched you in so long I'm glad you still make good content
I think it was inevitable that Pokémon would become 3D one day. What WASN’T inevitable was the many problems that modern Pokémon faces, like the Dex cut, constant glitches, poor graphics, over-reliance on new gimmicks and pandering to the first generation.
While I’d love a new take on a 2D game, the problem isn’t that the games are 3D, it’s that the modern games are suffering from mismanagement and poor decisions.
Yeah the new Pokemon games just don't hit the same, I am recently going back to the older games and playing harder versions of them. The 3D ones dont even run on their latest systems.
This has been a video I've wanted to make for a while, because I feel like a lot of people argue over which one looks better, but I really wanted to establish why I believe the quality of the games dipped after the jump to 3D.
I'm so glad that you made this video, because this is pretty much what I would have said if I had actually made the thing myself.
Great video Much, I think a fun topic for you to discuss is the current state of spinoffs. I definitely feel it's also been affected by the shift to 3D and modern gaming expectations.
Gen 5 was the peak of pokemon graphics, 2d sprites in a 3d world is one of the coolest asthetic any game could have
Sadly half of the games that use this idea don't have good 2d sprites, but Pokémon was definitely on the good half
Think of a 2dhd pokemon B&W where the proportions are exactly the same chibi scaled as the original but with updated graphics, how cool would it look (something that i think the gen 4 remakes should have done as well)
I dont mind 3D but the animations should be better.
Also I think the worst thing that could happen to the game was the open world. It made the world empty and most buildings un-enterable
The "Demakes" of Kalos would be such a fun and crazy idea!! I love it!!
"Would a new generation of players be interested in a game that feels old" undertale and deltarune:I'm gonna pretend i didn't see that
Since the game at 13:37 didn't get its name shown on screen: it's Cassette Beasts, a monster-collecting game that dropped this very year. I do recommend it a lot: cool designs, engaging story and characters, solid soundtrack and nice gameplay with a unique spin to its battle system (most notably how it handles elemental interactions). ❤
Oh, that was an editing mistake on my part! I definitely meant to show the name 🥲
Maybe I'll do a full video about it later
3d is definitely an improvement because as much as scarlet and violet is kinda lackluster its a huge step in the right direction we need accessories custom pokeballs inhabitable houses and a more alive open world and we hit a fantastic pokemon game hopefully by gen 11 it'll hit these goals!
People have been inhaling this copium for the past decade
Two of the features, custom Pokeballs and inhabitable houses, have already done in older games
In fact, I legitimately think that it was because the places were 2d that you could have cute features. Now you have facades of houses and shops and outdoor pokemarts justified by the Pokémon Cyclizar.
custom pokeballs are still in SV tho?
@@KenBladehart but those old games dont have scaled sizes or textures on pokemons like furs and scales
Pokemon XD Colosseum, and PBR had great 3d models for gen at the time, dynamic camera movement, and fleshed-out/impactful attack animations. Those games came out 2 decades ago (except PBR). Only they weren’t made by GameFreak, but Sonority Dream
I love these analytical videos from you munch! I’m passionate about these topics too :)
I enjoy the 3d models but the latest games just feel weird with their 3d. maybe its because of the lack of celshading but it just feels weird when you arent in a battle. also alot of pokemon lost vibrant their personality and colour. Typhlosion is a good example. Gen 6 handled it somewhat okay but fanmade sprites of the new pokemon honestly make me enjoy the pokemon some more. they feel cool. I think of them mightve worked idk. for me the 2d overworlds just doesnt do well on a big screen. maybe if they had 2d character and 3d scenes that would be cool(like how they did in black and white) or maybe 3d battles. Then again omega ruby and alpha saphire had so much life imbued when it was 3d so idk.
My preference: I love 3d. To me, it makes me feel more like I’m in the Pokémon world. No shade to 2d, since my first Pokémon games were black and white. I just like the 3d direction that it is now
My first game was Pokémon X and Y. And I think 2D would be better since game freak could focus more on animating the Pokémon rather than the model.
@@nodzee973D mons have attack and sp. attack animations, 2D mons don't
damn! W Video! this was awesome to watch and reflect on the history and progression of the design of pokemon games haha
5:05 "We could now interact with the sprite creatures we all (cuts to gardevoir) fell in love with. (cuts back)""
I'm fine with them reusing some assets, but gotta add to them over time like say eventually do what we could do with Pikachu and Eevee in LGPE, with clothes and hair.
Start small doing it to starters and hand full of popular favorites like Lucario and Gardevoir, maybe add updates with more pokemon overtime and next game rolls around u already have a decent chunk of updated sprites from last game to move to new game already done to make more for new mon
I think a return to the 2d style wouldn't be too bad, but seeing how subpar BDSP was its seriously hard to tell if it would even be a good change, i wouldn't mind it at the very least to see how some newer pokemon look in sprite form.
Fan games exist with all 9 gens of pokemon and I can say, without a doubt, I'm not aware of a single one that "doesn't work", and most look better than their official versions.
BDSP problem was the glitches and lack of platinum content. Top down style way better
As a Gen 3 lover, thank you for the background music. Takes me back to those days ❤
More of this!! Analysis is always fun
I think they should have two small regions for each game, one in 3D and one in 2D. Especially for games like Legends, where the past can be 3D while the future can be in 2D. This satisfies the open world exploration aspect (3D) while also makes it easier to bring back dungeons/caves/buildings/battle facilities in 2D. Pokémon can easily explain it with time travel so player can travel back and forth from 3D environment to 2D , so that we will be able to experience the full pokemon experience.
The problem: That requires effort on Gamefreak’s part.
IMO, games need to STOP making such a big push towards open world. I'd rather receive segmented worlds with the freedom that Legends Arceus gave us than the blandess that was the Wild Area in Sw/Sh and the 'Open World' in Sc/Vi.
Just some food for thought: What if the Routes in the next main game were like that from Legends Arceus but were just segmented based on the towns instead of traveling via hub?
Sword and Shield level towns plus Legends Arceus level wild freedom.
I honestly don’t have a problem with scarlet and violets open world. I will always like scarlet and violet, as I never really payed attention to the Pokémon games, but then I saw miraidon and just loved the design. Although it was not my first game, SV was the first Pokémon game I beat. I will always love the game, All though everyone seems to disagree.
@@L4ZERGD Unfortunately, I wasn't able to play much of the game because it caused be to be motion sick with how unoptimized and frame choppy it was (My eyes weren't able to handle seeing 30 fps, 20 fps, 10 fps, 5 fps, and 2 fps all playing at the same time at different distances). But based on watching RUclips videos and reading information online, it definitely feels like a lot of the performance issues could have and would have been fixed with segmented areas like Legends Arceus.
I am VERY glad that this isn't a "2D iS BetTeR" rant but an objective look at things, although I do agree that the 3D games sometimes have less content, they are still very fun and fleshed out experiences (yes even scarlet and violet with its bugs) and besides, its only so long until they nail a 3D game just like back then in the 2D days. Overall, 2D and 3D both have their ups and downs, and im glad that pokemon has made the jump to 3D
I love this new style of video you are doing it’s so nice
Thank you! I'm having a lot of fun scripting/editing them 🤙
Man, seeing some of those Nintendo directs in the beginning really made me miss Reggie and especially Iwata. Nintendo doesn't seem to do those fun ads anymore like those 2 did 😞
That ad specifically was from E3 I believe. Nintendo Directs still have some fun moments but I agree Iwata is dearly missed and Reggie was a big loss for the company!
@MunchingOrange ah, maybe I haven't been paying enough attention or stood out to me.
I've been playing these games since Red, Blue, & Yellow so 3D was always something i couldnt wait for. I believe more time & polish needs to be given though to make a successful 3D open world title like they have been trying to do with these recent titles. I think BDSP turned out really good & gave me hope for the eventual Black/White & X&Y remakes to come.
Your idea at the end of the video has been a hope of mine for years, awesome idea Munch.
Love this video essay style, do whatever topic you want I’m down to watch all of it!
Gen 5 was the best transitional period from 2d to 3d
With Pokémon being the highest grossing media franchise in the world, it makes sense for them to transition to 3D like how Mario and Zelda did. The problem is they aren’t done as well as the 2D games and the 3D Pokémon models lose the charm, personality compared to their 2D sprites.
I really hope they can do a 2D HD mainline game eventually and they can focus more what made the older games so memorable.
This essay analysis video was so well made. I am looking forward to more of these videos!
Imagine a parallel universe where people are angry at gamefreak for staying at 2D lmao, when they see our universe they'll understand lmao
I'd actually like to imagine how would modern Pokemon would look in 2d, have you played the Mario and Luigi RPG 3ds games? They kinda have the same 2d sprites on a 3d world effect
Pls reply
@@SMCwasTakenplay showdown if you’re curious about the sprites
Im honestly with orange on this one cause we got some amazing cutscenes like ultra necrozma, volo and giratina in legends Arceus, Sada and Turo, hell even AZ's backstory looks amazing so no we're staying 3D from now on 😤😁😁
We can get amazing shits without going full fugly 3D
Like with Distortion World. Also cutscenes can still be 3D while the game stays 2D. Otherwise we get shit like BDSP cutscenes which is also full 3D
Less kneejerk, more critical thinking, kid.
@@powerfulberry237Calling someone kid shows how much you are blinded by nostalgia. Just by reading your comment I can tell you grew up on the gen 5 games and think they are absolute masterpieces. Get off the nostalgia and realize that 3d is the future
@@SourSalmon u just described the entirety of Gen 5 fans lol
Yo I have been watching your walkthroughs and I hope you have a blessed day
13:38 did not expect to see Cassette Beats here. Fun creature-collector RPG, I haven't played a lot of it but I recommend it
I love this. As someone who started with Pearl and gen 4, I love X and Y and gen 6 is definitely my second fave
The shift to 3D was necessary, and a good shift for the franchise. I think a love project inside Game Freak to make a new sprite based, 2D Pokémon game would be lovely, but 3D is the _de facto_ basis of main series games nowadays, and I think that's how it should be. The problem doesn't stem from 3D itself, it's the scale of the world itself that influences how more or less jarring it looks.
For example: Kalos and Hoenn in the 3DS era have the first ever Pokémon battles in 3D in main series, but the routes in general are very much linear in movement, and not grandiose. You can easily reimagine these routes in 2D (Hoenn, of course, already exists in 2D). I think the idea of XY demakes like MunchingOrange suggested sounds so palpable because those routes are still very 2D "minded", in a way.
Now fast forward to recent generations and you have the Wild Area in SwSh, and the whole region of Paldea, which can never be translated into 2D due to their open world aspects. This is a very, very grandiose approach to view and interact with the Pokémon World, but it is also one that's much harder to realize if you lack the appropriate skills and mindset to achieve. I think Legends Arceus is a step in the right direction, but I don't think I can agree when it comes to the previous examples... at the end of the day, Game Freak was and is not a company that is prepared for 3D style games. If it wasn't for Creatures Inc's imput, XY would probably be a pipe dream yet. And while this lack of competence can still be mitigated with aforementioned aspects of the Gen 6 or even the Gen 7 games (a more linear region, less space to travel on per Route, etc), the more Game Freak over-relies on 3D, the less appealing it looks, because you can interact with every nook and cranny of the game, and it just doesn't look as pretty because it's far more difficult to focus on all these details that make an open world experience engaging when compared to focus in a simple, effective Route, that can be full of diverging paths, verticality, and fun features.
I think this is what you mean by the games looking less engaging nowadays, and more barren.
Great video, man!
Really love this vid man, I’d love more discussion videos
I don't want them to forget about 2d pokemon games, so i really hope someday gamefreak will do some 2d game that we want
Hey munchingorange will you go back to pokemon xenoverse
I just started playing the pokemon main series games this year with pokemon scarlet I've been playing pokemon go since 2021 I've been watching your playthroughs of the older games and today I subscribed to your channel on RUclips your playthroughs have introduced me to alot more stories thanks I'm currently watching your pokemon black and white playthrough among others I've already watched and others I plan on watching anyway thanks for introducing me to other pokemon main series game stories
I really like this type of video from you!
Some of them need fixing but I’m kinda wanting 2d sprites back😊
The problem with XY models is that they were just there, idling, not even menacingly. BW "2.5D" sprites were filled with energy, while Gen III models made us feel in a Pkmn battle.
Im going to say this once again
If Pokemon stayed 2D people would have complained that Its 2d using arguments like "Isn't Pokemon a multimillion dollar company? Why are we still 2d in (insert 2013-2023)."
Pokemon in 3d is fine, they are improving as fast as companies did when 3d was first being used back in the 1990s
I wish the 3d models were more sharp, intimidating or at least cool to see, 2d sprites in gen 2 and gen 5 are something else beyond this galaxy! I love them
Personally, at least for me I’m glad the series switched to 3D. The main series Pokémon games I’ve always wanted to have a similar look to Colosseum and XD in the main series and just have it continue to evolve and get better from there. While I don’t care for how glitchy Scarlet and Violet are, those games do look really good visually and are the closest to how Colosseum and XD looked, at least with the dynamic camera angles of important battles of important characters. I just think that as long as they learn from their mistakes and keep improving, I’d rather the main series continue to evolve with its 3D and open world. That’s my opinion
I really want them to keep Terastalization or at the very least continue into Gen 10 like Mega’s continued into Gen 7
the lack of information showed so much more detail
Octopath traveler style will suit pokemon well.
Ok I’m gonna be honest I adore the 2D spirits it’s what I grew up with (been playing since gen 1) they had a amazing sense of life to them (if that makes sense) playing gen 3 for example the world never feels empty and gen 6 never felt empty eaither and I think that has to do with how the models having life the 3d models can have a lot of life to them too we see it in Paldea and LA esspically it’s a matter of the world feeling kinda hollow before every route was it’s own ecosystem it was full of Pokémon and trainers now the world is open those connections don’t exist as clearly as before so it feels more barren in contrast I love both styles in different ways and the move to 3d was bound to happen but I think 3D has to do a bit more to convey that sense of life
Modern games have so much awesome style, no matters is it pixelart/2D/3D. It's all about art and style. For example games like don't starve, stardew valley, oxygen not included.
they just need more development for the models and animations.
Even if they stayed 2D we would discuss should pokemon go 3D
Let's Pikachu and Eevee were definitely the most visually appealing games. The regular routes of Sw/Sh didn't look too bad either, especially compared to the Wild Area.
I think they should've done what they did with Let's Go, while still improving the gameplay mechanics. When you add another dimension to work with, you quadruple the amount of work developers spend on the game world, while quartering the amount of time they spend on each aspect.
HD 2d looks so good, to me it keeps the soul of the game series, someone on youtube makes mocs on unreal engine. I do like 3d environment, but the new switch games are so unplayable if you go back to the old games after, they have no soul
As someone who started with the 3d games, I feel the exact opposite tbh. I have trouble connecting with a bunch of wriggling cubes the same way I would a 3d model
@@zebadicaagain9735 the 3d models suck. there almost no good 3d animations.
@@Diamond_Jay1 none of the other Pokémon games had any animation for moves at all. I understand they aren’t the best, but I just prefer 3d models over 2d sprites tbh
@@zebadicaagain9735 3d models have no life or emotion. they also have much less color. they SUCK
no they need to evolve.
People seem to forget how much everyone was bitching about Gen 5 not being on 3DS way back when.
As someone who’s been making all the Pokémon games in minecraft I would have really liked for them to have stuck with the 2D style
Omg I don't watch this channel since when you uploaded BW2 videos. I feel nostalgic
All I want to say is Typhlosion is literally GF's middle child.
You did pretty well on this first analytical video. Can we get more pls
HOLY I FOUND YOU You were my FAV CHILDHOOD RUclipsR WTH
I hope they gathered enough motivation and passion to create another BW2 cause it is one of the most polished pokemon games in history.