The Crackpots and These Women: Josh and C.J.
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- Great Moments in ''The West Wing'': The ending to Episode 5 of Season 1, The Crackpots and These Women. Josh and C.J. talk about nuclear wars, his card, and Ave Maria. Josh really is very sweet sometimes.
Jesus, it is hard listening to Josh talk about Smallpox in the summer of 2020.
Yep.
Exactly. This is my tweet from today:
If anyone wonders if even a fictitious White House was calculating the risk of a full blown pandemic, please watch this clip with the brilliant @BradleyWhitford
and @AllisonBJanney
of #Westwing
The real White House, 20 years later, did nothing.
@@Dirk-van-den-Berg a pandemic killing 1 out of every 3 people. Not 9 out of 1000 only if you're over the age of 65 and 3 out of 1000 if you're under the age of 45.
Peter sedese totally agree with your assessment, great precursor to today’s events, just as some of the Babylon 5 scenes spoke to the President Trump events past, how do these writers got such GREAT insight.
Listening to this in the winter of 2021 is even harder
Anyone Josh ever loved has died. His sister died in a fire he narrowly avoided. His father died the night of the Illinois Primary. Josh believes he carries that 10ft cloud that kills his friends and family. So when someone hands him a card and says "this lets you survive nuclear annihilation, your friends will not", they kind of set him off.
I've never thought of it that way; but I totally agree with your point.
I think the way his sister died is the crucial part of the card, the part that hurts him the most. His sister died in a fire, and he got out. He felt guilty, because he “left her behind”. No matter that he was like 4, and it wasn’t his fault. He feels the same way about his friends. He feels terrible about the possibility of “leaving them behind”. I love josh so much
@@goreoproductions6955 Jesus, I’ve seen this scene, this episode for that matter, I don’t know no may times. I adore this series, more than just about any work of film or TV ever.
And this never came up in my mind.
The writing, and the acting, in TWW are just sublime. To have such depth of character, that you write this? That’s just amazing.
@@hexistenz and the best part is, even if you don’t realize the deeper meaning, the storyline is still just as compelling
And later on he even lost his greatest mentor, Leo. Josh really did lose everyone he ever loved / cared for.
This aged very well.
Especially with the pandemic
PROGRAMMING
TOO well
"Do you think you have to be crazy to create something powerful?" My God. Thank you for that, Aaron Sorkin.
Much précédent to support this
There's a fine line between genius and madness.
That was my favourite part of this scene...asking whether someone has to be insane to create something like that....maybe one does..
These moments between the West Wing siblings are just amazing.
In Mom we see a scene where Allison and Bradley are in a fight. Bradley, with white beard and playing a hopeless drunk, gets slapped by Allison. Awkward scene when you know their history on West Wing.
I think this may be my favorite scene in the entire series...along with Bartlett's speech later in the episode...and Toby and Mrs. Landingham going to the homeless vet's funeral...and the shooting scene at the end of season 1...and the entire episode "Noel"...you know what, this whole show is just perfect.
Too many perfect scenes to recall!
This is my favorite scene, closely followed by Josh’s “You don’t know what I know” speech ro Toby.
I also love the scene in the oval office with the priest at the end of the death row episode.
I know! I get that so often. Like, any time I watch another of the hundreds of sublime scenes, and I say to myself “this is one of my favorite scenes”. And every time, I actually mean it.
As yo7 say, this whole series is perfect. Well, without any doubt the first 4 seasons anyway.
I especially love that this song almost foreshadows his PTSD and the factor that music plays in it. I know that it wasn't done on purpose but you can almost see the seeds of music = panic for Josh
I love the way the camera angles change, starting at 1:15. As CJ explains things to Josh, matter-of-fact and confident and compassionate as always, the camera slowly tilts up at her face and down at his. He’s literally and figuratively looking up to her. It’s such a beautiful, subtle way of framing CJ as an older sister figure (which is especially poignant in this episode, given that Josh is reckoning with guilt over his sister’s death). This is one of my favorite visual moments in the series.
You see what I see from time to time.
Ave Maria, takes my heart away every time!
Thanks!
That's a quality piece of analysis.
Sorkin, is awesome!
Thommy Schlame is as genius as Sorkin
Unbelievable foreshadowing.
West Wing was amazing on many levels.
Took 21 years but it came true
PROGRAMMING
Josh Lyman was a modern knight, that is one who lived up to the knightly virtues in this modern age. Even though he understood and feared, sometimes viscerally, the dangers and horrors of our possible imminent futures - he kept faith in his beliefs and his friends. He kept up the fight for goodness, for justice and for a better world. He and Toby were in many respects the moral conscience of this show. ...Sure Josh knew how to operate in the capital's world of power and deceit, but he was constantly fighting for the futures of us all. Loved this show, hard to know which characters I loved the best.
I love how CJ responds to Josh. "We'll make more vaccines." And she says it with an almost indifferent, no-big-deal attitude. I think that kind of sums up how this country as a society deals with threats. Yeah, bad things are out there. Yeah, some will probably happen to us. So what? We'll figure out how to fix the problem and win.
I wish that was how we deal with threats. No, we deal with threats by saying "This must never happen. How many human rights and liberties can we compromise in a vain and futile effort to maintain an illusion of security?"
That was the United States prior to 9/11...Hard to recognize us these days.
@@CavZippo That United States is gone. The one who could preach about human rights, and civil liberties.
When opposition was open for compromise, and the ruling party understood that they're governing not only for their voters but all constituents, The years of prosperity under Clinton are long gone, ever since it's been a president interested in pleasing his base.
You weren't wrong
Have yiu watched the news lately?
Only five episodes into the series and already it's up there in my "Favourite Drama Series" list, thanks mainly to this fantastic episode.
So I wonder you've finished it by now.
Best Series ever? :)
When the pilot first aired, I'd watched it out of curiosity. Bartlet's speech at the end to the three 'fat-asses' was SO absorbing!
And being a P.K., even I knew the correctly numbered 'damn commandments'. 😆 (Thank you, Toby!)
Have always LOVED this show!
West Wing is in the list of my top 2 shows. This scene is one of my favorite. I did not like Bartlet's comments later. I thought they were very patronizing towards the women he was claiming to express appreciation for.
@@martinchiarelli2582 yep! Best ever
The recording of Ave Maria is by Richard Marlow & The Choir of Trinity College, Cambridge. The album is called Allegri: Miserere.
It took me a long time to figure out which one it was but I'm sure it's the exact same recording as in the show.
Thank you so much, I had this stuck in my head
ruclips.net/video/hwbDzdYFkfs/видео.html that’s it, this is the version you’re talking about. Thank you for pointing us to it 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Thanks 🙏
👍🏆❤
One of the best josh moments on the west wing (which is saying something) a compassionate and intelligent scene.
Damn this clip hits even harder after Covid-19...
Josh's moral compass is formed by loss and grief. He never wants anyone else to feel it. That's my take. And he's passionate and he's harsh and he's possibly the most vulnerable person on this show.
Coronavirus brought me here.
Truth. Too accurate
Me too 😔😷
Same
Same.
I'm just some Canadian guy and I say: See, there is something good in every situation🤓
Ave Maria D.839 as performed by The Trinity College Choir at Cambridge.
Oh my God, I've only been trying to find out what version of Ave Maria was used here for FOREVER. Thank you!!!!!!
:)
Me too :) It's a revelation.
As used in the Hitman Video game and movie
Thanks
Oh my god, watching this during the pandemic. They got it spot on.
yeah but it's COVID, not smallpox. 99% people die WITH COVID not FROM it
After Covid, this scene hits more seriously...
This scene and the one with Yo Yo Ma just get me every single time.
Oh yeah and knowing yo yo ma is like the nicest man on the planet just adds another level to it
I love Josh's concern about the whole situation. His worry over the fate of his friends is very touching and loving. I love this show!! Long live The West Wing!!! Sadly, Josh's analysis of the next world war is scary but probably the most accurate description of what it would be like.
I’m watching this in lockdown, and damage is been done.
This really is the closest the West Wing ever got to a disease/pandemic episode
Bc it seemed inconceivable, and somehow still predictable. Know what i mean?
I want CJ to tell me I'm sweet...
CJ is Josh's big sister in the West Wing. She isn't afraid to get loud to tell him when he is wrong, encourages him when he is right, and helps him feel better when she can.
I can't tell if this aged poorly or fantastically.
it. aged. fantastically.
Probably both - depends how you feel at the moment of viewing. But hay - what a series.
We need to make sure it continues aging well. Never forgotten.
both
I kinda wish they'd built on this scene when C.J. got her own card when she became the Chief of Staff. "My card has a higher number than yours, and I get a better seat on the plane."
It's crazy watching this all these years later. Not just because the world endured years of half-measures to contain SARS-cov-2, not just because I'm going to be on an airplane to New York City (and changing trains in Times Square), not jut because I remember reading the same article in the 1990s that talked about this threat (that Aaron Sorkin probabky read too), and not just because "Ave Maria" is a favorite piece of music for my mom, dad, and fiance. It's crazy watching this because all these years later, there are fewer examples of friendship greater than when Allison Janney says, "You really are very sweet sometimes."
I must rewatch this!
"The cold war is over, there's not going to be a nuclear..."
February 2022 "Hold my beer"
Hold my vodka
The scene seems almost prophetic now...
Almost? One person in China got covid-19. One. And now, just over a year later, it's infected every corner of the globe and killed over 400 thousand just in this country alone. Albeit, the orange turd has a ton of responsibility in that but even if it wasn't for his blatant and utter incompetence, we'd still be in this mess. Everything I've read about covid from people that actually know what they are talking about says it's going to take decades for us to get beyond it. And that's not taking into consideration the next virus that someone will catch that's just as contagious.
Wow.... he called it way back when........
It seems pretty relevant now.
Man...what a great research on every line....this became true after 15yrs
this scene + the wedding scene in the newsroom are the two best uses of ave maria i've ever seen. and of course, they have sorkin in common
Watching during the shutdown of July 2020.
Watched this episode tonight. Crazy how prescient it was.
another little masterpiece from the best tv show EVER. Long live TWW
I LOVE this moment.
Such an awesome episode, one of my favourites, and this is one of my favourite moments in it!
He's right. More now than when the show ran.
Indeed, thank you. This is the best iteration of Ave maria I have heard in my years on this earth. Perhaps I am given to dramatiszation, but it is a beautiful song, and so hard to find this version. Again, thank you.
I disliked Josh in the first episodes, but this scene completely sold me on him
Glorious music. The Ave Maria by Schubert is the best known by most people but there are others just as beautiful by Mascagni, Caccione and Gomez, if you're interested.
Josh has a conscience and is a m oral man. He gives me hope for our species. If we ignore the transcendental like Ave Maria, what do we have?
+bovnyocc operalover - The moral man ? Can we truly love, either physically or platonically, if we can't look outside of ourselves to the other ? It's not about pity, or even caring. It's about empathy. Being in another person's shoes. Walking their walk along with them.
Covid-19 “No oNE coUlD HaVE PRedIcTeD ThIS!”
In the UK we literally had a Pandemic preparedness exercise two years prior. The report said we were dangerously unprepared for such an event. What did our government do? Sell our PPE stockpile.
@@benlowe1701 it's like that episode of parks and rec where they have an emergency test during the harvest festival and all our leaders are Jam.
Hello from 2021.
love this scene.
As with all great shows (Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Cold Feet) you get attached to all the characters. Same goes for The West Wing, but Josh and CJ are my favourites. Loved this scene, but I always wondered if CJ knew that Josh lost his sister, how she died (he tells this story to his therapist in the same episode) and how this relates to him not wanting the security pass.
Just started watching this show for the first time on its Bravo reruns. I absolutely loved this scene.
Sitting here in 2020, just...sad.
I'd never noticed that he has a photo of a nuclear bomb explosion on his wall.
Poor Josh he feels so guilty 😥😥
Wow!!! This is crazy relevant in 2020.
Of course, this is a beautiful scene, and one of the best West Wing moment ever.
But ...
While CJ was making the argument that they wouldn't need a press secretary or communications people, was I the only one thinking : "What good is a deputy cheif of staff without a staff" ?
not disagreeing, but eventually Sorkin who was told specifically by one white house staff member about the card, and then was literally told by the press secretary that something like didn't exist is a point.... the assistant secretary of staff still has a lot of responsibility, and more so assuming the rest of the staff doesn't exist anymore... he becomes the staff.
His brain. He knows the Hill, he knows how to put the people that remains to work together. Tobby must be there too.
Josh has apocalyptic horror scenarios rolling through his head, and what does he turn to for comfort? Mozart's setting of "Ave Maria". :-)
Schubert's Ave Maria.
I've been looking for this clip
Thank you
He was actually wrong about C.J. In the event of nuclear war, she stands in a pasture next to a cow and waits to be airlifted, where she sits directly behind the President and to the left of the National Security Advisor.
that is only true once she becomes chief of staff.
I often think about this episode when I think about covid 19. Written so long ago but oh so true.
This is more relevant these times...
Schubert's Ave Maria is amazing... just as he said. I'm not Catholic; I'm not even Christian (I'm Jewish), and it's still enough to make me stop short and listen... 🙂
Great scene...amazing scene
So prescient in these interesting days...
Think of this often when I watch him on Handmaid's Tale
It seems to be a matter of some debate, but the version of Ave Maria in this scene appears to be performed by Andrea Cockerton and The Choir Of Trinity College, Cambridge.
Sorkin sure loves Ave Maria. The Newsroom and TWW!
who wrote this episode, Nostradamus?
A great scene from the single greatest television show of all time....beating the Sopranos and Brideshead Revisited by a whisker!
I often found Josh to be utterly egocentric and an utter a**e, but this episode showed the soft centre he usually kept well armoured and hidden.
This was also before he was suffering from PTSD.
We just said the same thing here about this episode.
Bartlet 2020
Amen to that.
Lol - I have that model of SONY player. Still works.
@rinceoir14 Sounds like Ave Maria performed by Eko - check it on iTunes. I could be wrong as many artists have done the Schubert Ave Maria.
They’ve been telling us what was coming for a long time now. We just thought it was entertainment.
Seeing Covid way before & it’s ramifications
"Miraculous"
Thank you !!!! I have been trying for years!
Schubert wasn't crazy. He most likely died from mercury poisoning from syphilis treatments. While syphilis can cause various mental disturbances, Schubert's final months were not particularly marked by such symptoms. *Schumann* was crazy.
does anyone know who the singer is on this ave maria?
And the way this ends is that Josh hands in his card so he won't be getting on that plane or in that bunker. After he does that, he's fine, he can sleep. (I always felt that they just nodded to him and quietly issued orders so if he was nearby when it happened they could have a secret service agent just take him down and bring him along as a wrapped up package. If there was time. Yeah. Not likely.) Anyways, I agree with CJ. He could be sweet sometimes.
Dang…change time square with China and smallpox with Coronavirus and you got it.
Covid -- "hold my beer"
anybody know what version of Ave Maria this is? I'd like to purchase a copy on iTunes or Amazon.
*To me it's a simple equation of "My woman comes with me or I don't go"*
*There's no angst or debate involved, or 'What's best for the Country?' at least not for me*
( *Hell, I couldn't even leave a dog behind...!*)
Brilliant.
thank you.. was looking as well.
Cue 2020
or even, Schubert's... there was a reason why he moved on to saying 'Schubert was mad'!
Can someone PLEASE tell me which version of Ave Maria this is, in the interest of acquiring it? I haven't been able to find it anywhere I've looked!
Ave Maria D.839 as performed by The Trinity College Choir at Cambridge.
ruclips.net/video/hwbDzdYFkfs/видео.html
thanks!
Anyone know what version of "Ave Maria" this is?
i just found it thanks!!!
Marian Anderson!
seems like the writers of the Division game were West Wing fans
amazing
Chili with rose wine?
If we're being pedantic, and I love this scene, but a target with no holes? Who puts that up in their office?
Who is the singer of this version?
*It's Fiona Jessica Wilson* and organist Philip Rushforth with the Choir of Trinity College, Cambridge, conducted by Richard Marlow.
So similar to 2020.
Name of the song?
Josh Lyman predicting covid.
Josh was one of the canniest political operators to ever work in Washington but he was a fundamentally decent man who was not doing it for his own advancement or as a power grab. He served at the pleasure of the President because he believed in what they were trying to do. He is also understand the difference between moral, ethical and legal. Whilst Toby was the true moral centre of that team Josh ran a close second. Toby's moral compass was guided by his religion whilst Josh's was guided by his childhood traumas and a sense of survivor's guilt...
Do you think you have to be crazy to create something powerful?
Turns out it might be red phones after all....