>That dude Poor NoRegret, no recognition at all. He actually qualified for code S and played in GSL more than once. It was by cheesing, I believe. But still, most people wouldn't be able to cheese their way in to GSL either.
This is so cool, I love how broken and stupid and wonderful this mod is. Watching the pros smash into each other with the different combos in that one proleague style match was sick. This is the ACTUAL Project M/P+ of starcraft
The successful strat I've seen fo BW terran vs SC2 zerg is a fast academy stimmed bio rush, since firebats absolutely wreck lings, and are quite good vs SC2 Queens. 2 medics, 1-2 bats, rest marines on a 1-base play, then expand. It keeps the Zerg from expanding/growing too quickly. Since full turtle has never really worked vs SC2 Zerg. Also, it looks like you're mostly playing on SC2 maps instead of the maps made for the mod, which means you mine out faster and need to expand more frequently, because SC2 patches have less minerals.
@@AXharoth How do you propose he defend the faster expansions after the main/nat vs the much faster growing SC2 Zerg? Pressure comes first; you need to slow the SC2 Zerg down, or you can't win (if they know what they're doing) - that's true for SC2 Terran/Protoss as well. That's the issue for BW Terran, and it has the same problem in BW as it does here. Of course, Artosis could sim-city defense a bit better with depos and whatnot, but that's not going to fix the problem of simply getting overwhelmed. Terran is viable/competitive in BW in large part because the bases hold so many more resources, so it's not forced to push out and expand as quickly, and it almost certainly performs better on the evo-specific maps (mostly converted BW maps) with more resources per base.
@@JakeUmpleby That's their answer to the push, but they won't have speed banes in time, so you can micro them down. If they fast expo, it's hard for them to avoid taking damage from the 1 base stim rush. There's also the option of a bunker rush or something. You just need to slow them down to even the playing field some.
There's no way this mod is balanced but figuring out all these new races and match ups really makes it feel like SC3. Does the sc2 engine change the balance in redux?
I like sc1 graphics much more than sc2, it's the main reason I prefer to watch ASL rather than GSL. But actually playing sc1 after the user-friendly sc2 interface is pain.
@@jackerylel Yeah, it's all 1 to 1, as I said. The only bug's I've found have been defilers not having consume, but everything else works as intended. Even things like the hovering property are transferred over. Each person gets 4 workers at start, so I can even copy BW builds in Sc2, and you can find BW maps on customs, I play on Tau Cross and Destination sometimes, and it's a lot of fun. BW is great, and I love it for what it is, but the clunky pathing is a love/hate situation. This is a lot easier for me.
@@caelestigladii I believe so, though I can't verify that. The economy definitely seems slower. I can even time builds to the second from Sc1 builds, and they work just as intended.
Truly the sound design of SC2 was so bad, every Zerg unit sounds so similar, they sucked all the fun out of the sound design and made things way more "gritty." The sound design of Brood War is just so camp and fun. To this day I can repeat most of the unit lines from BW, even the Zerg sounds while I struggle to even remember many of the SC2 unit lines they're so boring.
Obviously we always yell at Arty over his terrible 3rd base timings and for good reason. But if I learned anything from watching TY and uThermal play it's that BW takes third later than SC2 T
I would like to hear RT's thoughts on the mod after he gets a chance to finish the tournament. Something about the Broodwar Bio actually looks stronger in some ways. Could just be the power of TY.
All these SC2 versions of BW units have such an obnoxiously long delay before firing. It makes kiting impossible. I wonder why marines were given such special preferential treatment for firing delay in SC2
The bw races have fewer options than the sc2 ones and the implemention of the micro isn't as good since the counter micro is not as good. I feel like the scion races are more complete than the bw ones. They need to add a few more things to it to make it more balanced.
You should do the balanced version. It makes slight changes to do be races so that they can stand a chance, like giving the siege tank siege mode from the start.
U know how BW players brag about micro? So marine+medic plays very good but dies to banes easly cuz there is no shield upgrade in bw, soits need to be microed hard. Firebats evaporate lings. Add vessels for banes and tank for lategame ultras. Standart bio actually stronger, but it has to be microed. Literally skill gap is too much. Yesterday on gsl showmatch sc2z vs sc1t was preety close, and terran actually was winning until ultras.
Btw did you know you can stack sc1 terran cc into each other sharing the same space? I don’t know if it still works in this mod or not but try this. Build a cc, then raise it up into the air, build another cc in the same spot underneath it. Once that’s done lift the second cc up too. Rinse and repeat.
I wonder if one can make the mod allowing ALL SC1 and SC2 units on each side, that'll be less imba - although of course, new combinations could lead to new imba and balance team headaches (if they care to take this task at all), but worth a try.
I totally feel RT about the spidermines. I play Raynor in coop with mass Vultures, I need an auto clicker for all those mines. I looked into rapid cast with the mouse wheel but it looks like they patched that out at some point. 😕
You have to accommodate for the difference in time intervals for each game to balance correctly I believe. A second for brood war represents more potential value than a second in SC2 because brood war plays at a slower pace but still is sufficient at that slower pace. This tangibly equates to giving brood war in this mod more per SC2 engine game-second than the SC2 races. That should help balance.
55:35 The vulture paid for itself imo, lost 16-32 mining minerals, 6 minerals x3 so another 18, they lost 50 minerals and a drone, thats 100 minerals. Plus they were distracted, so creep is slower.
1:32:35 yeah definitely a problem with the mod but it's a limitation of the SC2 engine, ground units are just not allowed to have moving shots in SC2 for some reason. would either require Blizzard to fix this or for the modders to basically script up their own movement and pathing code specifically for the Vulture (well and for Workers)
@@bakacs1n not a moving shot. they attack _while moving_ but that is not the same thing as a moving shot. kind of confusing naming for the technique but it was named in BW before units that could move while attacking were a thing in SC2 proper moving shots ala SC1 do exist on air units in SC2 tho, especially ones that shoot projectiles such as Vikings. (Phoenix and Void Rays are able to move while attacking much like Diamondbacks and thus don't actually have a "moving shot" like SC1)
@@bakacs1n no, actually in SC1 Vultures can moving shot so well precisely because they turn so fast, that and their weapon has an unusually large arc that it can attack in. they can make almost a 180, shoot their target, and then turn back to face the direction they were facing before, and then start moving again without losing hardly any speed at all. in SC2, ground units are hardcoded to come to a *complete* stop unless the weapon is set to allowed movement: moving whenever they fire their weapon, meaning this is impossible in SC2.
I really wish blizzard would make SC II: BW, kinda like this, a mix of BW with modern tech, I know about all the reasons BW is great because it has old fashioned mechanics etc, but maybe this would be a cool game, mixing both concepts
A mod like that already exists, it's called Starbow. Nobody played it because broodwar fans are incapable of enjoying anything other than broodwar. They aren't really RTS fans and probably the worst demographic to attempt to cater to.
BW Terran prolly needs 2 base 1 gas mass vulture harrass or such. Naw prolly 1 base 1 gas, like ling bane but vulture. Would need more gas for more factories tho, so like 2 base 3 gas, take them off gas, spam vultures ig.
@ArtosisTV... but you're not using some SC2 mechanics that would definitely ease your life and speed up your economy a bit. E.g: rally point the CC to the minerals rather than always commanding the new SCV to work. It's true you're playing bw terran, but this is not bw anymore... 😅
Can Queen infest both Terran Command Centers? Can Dark Archon steal SC2 Probe and make his own double Protoss army? Can Terrans steal each other's Techlabs, Reactors and SC1 addons?
Apparently not. When I watched dark archons in a pvz in this mod it made the protoss go over supply Figuring out how to make a dual supply is a PAIN in the sc2 editor because you have to set it up with triggers that detect when the unit of a different race comes under the other player's control then it has to keep track of that in a separate variable. Then you have to extend the UI with an identical font and style and image to the other supply count. And it's not perfect, either. You can see an example of it in starcraft mass recall and how janky it is even though it's as perfect as I've ever seen
@@karpai5427 that could be a funny lore explanation It's sad that the truth is that they just didn't build sc2 to handle multiple supply types. Everything is just "supply"
He is floating 2k minerals, contantly supply block and talks about Serral not loosing a game because the game is easy. In starcraft 2 He wouldnt reach Plat because his turtle strat with 2 bases vs enemy 8 is not working in starcraft 2
![NOSFERATU - Official Teaser Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b59rxDB_JRg/mqdefault.jpg)
1000 Likes and I’ll play this more!
"And.... I'll prob do it n e ways"
You'll play this more regardless Arty
Blackmail huh? hOWAbOUT you play this more adn there won't be anymore mario erotica!
Bring the pepper cuz the salt is ready
Just don't. It sucks.
"I see why Serral has never lost in his f*ing life" - Artosis
" I dont care if you lose but if I lose you will fucking care "
LMAO
Arty would reach new levels of anger if he ran into Snow using BW shuttle-reaver in SC2's engine.
With 30+ kills 😂
@@ngirroo he got 40+ in the GSL showmatch no? 😅
The constant laughter from that dude while artosis rages is pretty good stuff
>That dude
Poor NoRegret, no recognition at all. He actually qualified for code S and played in GSL more than once. It was by cheesing, I believe. But still, most people wouldn't be able to cheese their way in to GSL either.
@@sihTdaeRtnaCuoY He played some decent macro games every now and then, but yea mainly did it with aggro strats
idk, he kept laughing like a giddy little girl.. fkn annoying. what's the point of playing such imbalanced games and keep laughing about it?
"can i not kill mutalisks"
no you cant kill mutas with tanks and vultures
If only Terran had stuff that killed air units effectively.
why not ? :(
I can't believe Zerg would see the Terran had 0 units that could shoot up and decide to make Mutas
Terran will be disadvantaged as long as their units don’t counter every other unit in the game.
Build a couple of Valkyries? They are designed to counter Mutalisks.
This is so cool, I love how broken and stupid and wonderful this mod is. Watching the pros smash into each other with the different combos in that one proleague style match was sick.
This is the ACTUAL Project M/P+ of starcraft
where did this tournament happen? i wanna watch!
The successful strat I've seen fo BW terran vs SC2 zerg is a fast academy stimmed bio rush, since firebats absolutely wreck lings, and are quite good vs SC2 Queens. 2 medics, 1-2 bats, rest marines on a 1-base play, then expand. It keeps the Zerg from expanding/growing too quickly. Since full turtle has never really worked vs SC2 Zerg.
Also, it looks like you're mostly playing on SC2 maps instead of the maps made for the mod, which means you mine out faster and need to expand more frequently, because SC2 patches have less minerals.
he doesnt expand fast enough , peopel dont play like that
@@AXharoth How do you propose he defend the faster expansions after the main/nat vs the much faster growing SC2 Zerg?
Pressure comes first; you need to slow the SC2 Zerg down, or you can't win (if they know what they're doing) - that's true for SC2 Terran/Protoss as well.
That's the issue for BW Terran, and it has the same problem in BW as it does here. Of course, Artosis could sim-city defense a bit better with depos and whatnot, but that's not going to fix the problem of simply getting overwhelmed.
Terran is viable/competitive in BW in large part because the bases hold so many more resources, so it's not forced to push out and expand as quickly, and it almost certainly performs better on the evo-specific maps (mostly converted BW maps) with more resources per base.
Banelings?
@@Matt-ln7lb true true
@@JakeUmpleby That's their answer to the push, but they won't have speed banes in time, so you can micro them down. If they fast expo, it's hard for them to avoid taking damage from the 1 base stim rush. There's also the option of a bunker rush or something.
You just need to slow them down to even the playing field some.
God I love Jake, he knows just how to push Artys buttons. Hilarious
It’s sooo unfair that a Terran army that doesn’t shoot up loses to flying units lol
Maybe use Valkyries next time to counter mass Mutalisk instead of Goliaths 😁
Artosis finally enjoys SC2 haha
I'm also a huge fan of Brood War Redux, it's all me and my friends play now. Sc2 control with 1 to 1 Sc1 balance. This is cool too though.
There's no way this mod is balanced but figuring out all these new races and match ups really makes it feel like SC3. Does the sc2 engine change the balance in redux?
I like sc1 graphics much more than sc2, it's the main reason I prefer to watch ASL rather than GSL.
But actually playing sc1 after the user-friendly sc2 interface is pain.
@@jackerylel Yeah, it's all 1 to 1, as I said. The only bug's I've found have been defilers not having consume, but everything else works as intended. Even things like the hovering property are transferred over. Each person gets 4 workers at start, so I can even copy BW builds in Sc2, and you can find BW maps on customs, I play on Tau Cross and Destination sometimes, and it's a lot of fun. BW is great, and I love it for what it is, but the clunky pathing is a love/hate situation. This is a lot easier for me.
@@awizardwithwords994Does the 1:1 include workers bringing in 8 minerals per trip?
@@caelestigladii I believe so, though I can't verify that. The economy definitely seems slower. I can even time builds to the second from Sc1 builds, and they work just as intended.
Absolutely fantastic content! I love to see you two guys play together and banter. Just a pure joy :)
the BW look and sound of the tanks looks so much better than the stock sc2 ones ever did lol
The more it looks like a mobile game, the worse it is
I would say broodwar sound better but sc2 looks way way way better
@@6ber721i dont fully agree i think zerg noises are trash in bw. I get ear cancer every time I have to listen to them more than 1 minute
i dont know a single unit that looks or sounds better in BW
@@welfh3854 Dragoons are nice
These were a lot of fun to watch! I hope this sort of thing gets another chance on the stream!
Happy to see Artosis play this mod, hope to see more
The Sound on SC2 sucks... all i want is the mod for using SC1 sounds
Agree. I prefer sc2 but the sounds of sc1 are way better
Truly the sound design of SC2 was so bad, every Zerg unit sounds so similar, they sucked all the fun out of the sound design and made things way more "gritty." The sound design of Brood War is just so camp and fun. To this day I can repeat most of the unit lines from BW, even the Zerg sounds while I struggle to even remember many of the SC2 unit lines they're so boring.
You can use "rapid fire" for laying mines
I feel a mod like this might move the entire pro scene if the stars align
Awesome content. some sc1, some sc2. Couple bros hanging out with some whisky. Bit of banter.
Thumbs up, good times
Can't wait for another Artosis vs Snow in 4K graphic.
this is one of the best pieces of arty content ever
Runescape music from 00 to 20 seconds, nice :P
flute salad lol
lmfao so random
More of this Artois! Such good content!
Didn't hear much about the plumbers brothers, very disapointing video.
This is an awesome video, thanks RT
Tell artosis that normall sc2 players have 3rd base by miunte 4 or something...
Obviously we always yell at Arty over his terrible 3rd base timings and for good reason. But if I learned anything from watching TY and uThermal play it's that BW takes third later than SC2 T
I would like to hear RT's thoughts on the mod after he gets a chance to finish the tournament. Something about the Broodwar Bio actually looks stronger in some ways. Could just be the power of TY.
it's so cursed to see brood war stuff with sc2 system mechanics lmao. vultures with no moving shots are so sad
I hope Serral finishes his service as this mod is established as the new way to play SC and then he comes back and dominates this too.
BW pros are most likely just going to stick with BW. SC2 never popped off in Korea like it did everywhere else
And nobody would care. All the elite talent is playing BW.
Good content, if you didn't already, set up hotkeys for next time you run this scenario :)
Finally Artosis tries this out.
All these SC2 versions of BW units have such an obnoxiously long delay before firing. It makes kiting impossible. I wonder why marines were given such special preferential treatment for firing delay in SC2
They have longer delay than in BW in a faster game than BW, lol
The main designer was a T fanboi
Hope to see more casts of this mod on ArtosisCasts2.
I fucking loved this.
Cant wait for a ladder for this mod! Would be so awesome . I wonder if Brood War players can't play as greedy?
Wow, the mod made SC2 Mutas actually good!
so many of the QOL things SC2 offers is in Cosmonarchy, but for a game based on BW
Arty try Cosmonarchy looks fun!
Arty play Cosmonarchy!
This mod is the best thing to happen to RTS since LotV.
The bw races have fewer options than the sc2 ones and the implemention of the micro isn't as good since the counter micro is not as good. I feel like the scion races are more complete than the bw ones. They need to add a few more things to it to make it more balanced.
@@tokdo4960 Yeah idk how balanced they can truly make it but there's certainly some small changes that would all add up.
this is good shit arty. MORE!
I’ve been waiting for artosis to play this mode!!
Lings faster than vultures is pretty amazing
Love the bw tank model
I love when artosis goes and makes a turret at his 3rd while the enemy has 70 units destroying his main
You should do the balanced version. It makes slight changes to do be races so that they can stand a chance, like giving the siege tank siege mode from the start.
It felt so good to see this end on a broodwar TvZ where Artosis takes the win.
MORE OF THIS RT PLEASE!
I love it
It's awesome
I want more of it and I want to paly itmyself wow
Omg this is so funny I can't stop laughing 🤣🤣🤣
Oh, this will be interesting!
Fantastic, is there even a world where Firebats do anything in this context?
Anyone notice he’s got 8 idle SCVs in his first Protoss game pretty much the entire match?
Need BW maps in SC2 for this to really work I think.
U know how BW players brag about micro?
So marine+medic plays very good but dies to banes easly cuz there is no shield upgrade in bw, soits need to be microed hard.
Firebats evaporate lings. Add vessels for banes and tank for lategame ultras.
Standart bio actually stronger, but it has to be microed.
Literally skill gap is too much. Yesterday on gsl showmatch sc2z vs sc1t was preety close, and terran actually was winning until ultras.
u the man artosis !!
Btw did you know you can stack sc1 terran cc into each other sharing the same space?
I don’t know if it still works in this mod or not but try this. Build a cc, then raise it up into the air, build another cc in the same spot underneath it. Once that’s done lift the second cc up too. Rinse and repeat.
I wonder if one can make the mod allowing ALL SC1 and SC2 units on each side, that'll be less imba - although of course, new combinations could lead to new imba and balance team headaches (if they care to take this task at all), but worth a try.
In the 1st game even I knew when he sac'd the 200th ling I knew he was saving up gas for mutas.
Jeez, this is too fun
I wanna see StarCraft 1 professional players vs StarCraft 2 professional players in this mod
As soon as I heard about this mod I was Waiting for Artosis to play this
If you thought Terran was bad against SC1 races, hooo boy
I'd like to see how sc1 protoss would do!
The best Strat I've ever done with BW Tarren is just turtling and massing BCs with as much upgrades i can get.
I totally feel RT about the spidermines.
I play Raynor in coop with mass Vultures, I need an auto clicker for all those mines.
I looked into rapid cast with the mouse wheel but it looks like they patched that out at some point. 😕
@ArtosisTV I guess our dream of flash vs Maru can happen now... Or ever rogue or dark vs jaeddong
Noregret laughing his ass off for 2 hours must've been tiring for him.
You have to accommodate for the difference in time intervals for each game to balance correctly I believe. A second for brood war represents more potential value than a second in SC2 because brood war plays at a slower pace but still is sufficient at that slower pace.
This tangibly equates to giving brood war in this mod more per SC2 engine game-second than the SC2 races.
That should help balance.
13:13 LETS GO, STAND UP UR CHAIR AND PUT HIM IN A HEADLOCK !!! XD
55:35 The vulture paid for itself imo, lost 16-32 mining minerals, 6 minerals x3 so another 18, they lost 50 minerals and a drone, thats 100 minerals. Plus they were distracted, so creep is slower.
1:32:35 yeah definitely a problem with the mod but it's a limitation of the SC2 engine, ground units are just not allowed to have moving shots in SC2 for some reason. would either require Blizzard to fix this or for the modders to basically script up their own movement and pathing code specifically for the Vulture (well and for Workers)
cyclone? diamondback?
@@bakacs1n not a moving shot. they attack _while moving_ but that is not the same thing as a moving shot. kind of confusing naming for the technique but it was named in BW before units that could move while attacking were a thing in SC2
proper moving shots ala SC1 do exist on air units in SC2 tho, especially ones that shoot projectiles such as Vikings. (Phoenix and Void Rays are able to move while attacking much like Diamondbacks and thus don't actually have a "moving shot" like SC1)
@@Templarfreak you refer to kiting without the unit to completely turn over?
@@bakacs1n no, actually in SC1 Vultures can moving shot so well precisely because they turn so fast, that and their weapon has an unusually large arc that it can attack in.
they can make almost a 180, shoot their target, and then turn back to face the direction they were facing before, and then start moving again without losing hardly any speed at all. in SC2, ground units are hardcoded to come to a *complete* stop unless the weapon is set to allowed movement: moving whenever they fire their weapon, meaning this is impossible in SC2.
Who’s the editor of the channel. Great work.
InvisibleMenProduction
@@ArtosisTV thanks for the info. Top notch. Love your contribution to the StarCraft experience Artosis 🙏❤️
@@ArtosisTV thanks for the info. Top notch. Love your contribution to the StarCraft experience Artosis 🙏❤️
I really wish blizzard would make SC II: BW, kinda like this, a mix of BW with modern tech, I know about all the reasons BW is great because it has old fashioned mechanics etc, but maybe this would be a cool game, mixing both concepts
Nah it wouldn’t. SC2 is an unsalvageable disaster.
A mod like that already exists, it's called Starbow. Nobody played it because broodwar fans are incapable of enjoying anything other than broodwar. They aren't really RTS fans and probably the worst demographic to attempt to cater to.
By the fact u get minerals very faster, a anti-air should be a turret spam around the ccs
bw turrets has no armor and range upgrade so valkyries might be better option for clumped units and wraiths/goliaths/turrets for heavy air units
I couldn't wait to see arty play this custom gameeeee🎉🎉🎉. Especially as everyone been using him as a joke😂
they made a mob that spliced together in SC2 and brood in sc2 client
the mob is strong
...what
@@Reubachi the mob man, the mob :D
@@ReubachiI think they meant to say mod
32:24 It might be annoying for laying mines, but wait til you try it with lockdown ;)
Just getting massive sc2 wings of Liberty beta vibes
Legend
IF sc2 marines are glass cannons, surely you can balance out BW ones by giving them more HP
Arty ready to party!
@9 minutes in, How did you get so many factory units?
Artosis plays mech vs Zerg and Bio vs Protoss?
Dude has absolutely no clue what he is doing. Literally 2 decades playing this shit and still doesn’t understand the game.
What if we mod Starcraft 3 units? Boom! 💥 best mod ever
53:01 this is most-likely because it has already placed the footprint before the animation actually finishes which isnt the case in BW
Goes Valkyrie multiple times against mass ground zerg. Try BC.
Never seen so many idle scvs in a game before lol
1:55:53 is when we all learn why we need Marauder in a Tarren VS Protoss match up.
BW Terran prolly needs 2 base 1 gas mass vulture harrass or such.
Naw prolly 1 base 1 gas, like ling bane but vulture. Would need more gas for more factories tho, so like 2 base 3 gas, take them off gas, spam vultures ig.
Wait did arty get rid of the Canca TTS? lets goo stream is watchable now
Artosis going full mech vs Zerg? XD
I'm disappointed Jake didn't MaxPax him in the PvT. That would have been truly funny.
Challenge him to a 2 mile run to get revenge
@ArtosisTV... but you're not using some SC2 mechanics that would definitely ease your life and speed up your economy a bit. E.g: rally point the CC to the minerals rather than always commanding the new SCV to work. It's true you're playing bw terran, but this is not bw anymore... 😅
Can Queen infest both Terran Command Centers?
Can Dark Archon steal SC2 Probe and make his own double Protoss army?
Can Terrans steal each other's Techlabs, Reactors and SC1 addons?
test it
Apparently not. When I watched dark archons in a pvz in this mod it made the protoss go over supply
Figuring out how to make a dual supply is a PAIN in the sc2 editor because you have to set it up with triggers that detect when the unit of a different race comes under the other player's control then it has to keep track of that in a separate variable. Then you have to extend the UI with an identical font and style and image to the other supply count.
And it's not perfect, either. You can see an example of it in starcraft mass recall and how janky it is even though it's as perfect as I've ever seen
@@jeffreywarf I did not know that races share the same supplies in Starcraft 2.
So Terrans can store their stuff in Overlords basicly.
@@karpai5427 that could be a funny lore explanation
It's sad that the truth is that they just didn't build sc2 to handle multiple supply types. Everything is just "supply"
First question, no. I don't know about question 2 and 3
I wonder if Artosis would win against Age of Empires units.
I love how he plays it like he doesnt know shit. Should have gone for a career as an actor Arti :D
Artosis is a legend❤
He is floating 2k minerals, contantly supply block and talks about Serral not loosing a game because the game is easy. In starcraft 2 He wouldnt reach Plat because his turtle strat with 2 bases vs enemy 8 is not working in starcraft 2