Whato all, Jago is certainly in inferring the Great Central should have never closed. Sadly it was destroyed because of railway politics but would be a story for another time.
It would be fun if they built a replica pagoda shelter in the new station forecourt as a nod to its original heritage. Not a snowball's chance that they will, but it would be fun.
It surely wouldn't be that expensive to build a pagoda. Planning may be a problem but if it were gained perhaps we could all club together (I believe the modern term is crowd fund) and have one built.
Reminds me of my first visit to the new Wembley Stadium. Took my seat, looked around and was very unimpressed. It looked as if it had been designed and built by an accountant. There was a pitch surrounded by seats - and bugger all else. Then I remembered it was an accountant that had brought the thing home after any number of financial disasters - Mark Pallios
@@highpath4776 What about the tanks employed on ESW's from Euston to the carriage sidings, and those types employed on the west London line cross London workings.
I remember many years ago walking from Willesden Junction to Old Oak Common depot to see the Hymeks, Westerns,Warships and the Class 47s and 50s. It was a bit of a trek
Even more years ago, I went often to Old Oak, as we knew it, to cop steam locos...Castles, Kings, Saints, tanner-oners (61xx tax engines), and lots of others. Happy days!
NB. On your lovely graphic - 'West Ruislip' was actually called 'Ruislip and Ickenham' prior to the opening of the Central Line extension in 1948. It was then renamed 'West Ruislip (for Ickenham)' to differentiate itself from the two separate stations for 'Ruislip' and 'Ickenham' on the Metropolitan Line. South Ruislip was originally called Northolt Junction and then South Ruislip and Northolt Junction in 1932, until becoming just South Ruislip in 1948.
If there were a competition for the best vid of the year on YT this should win. History, Current Affairs, Humour, Pathos. 6min30 of classic telly really.
Glad to have found you again Mr H. I changed phones so I lost all my RUclips subscription channels. I was watchîng Sam’s Trains review of the Kernow Models GWR railmotor. Someone in the comments mentioned this video. So here I am again. It’s good to be back! I’m am now going to binge watch all the videos I’ve missed over the last 6 weeks 😂
Don’t forget there is another restored working Pagoda shelter @ Doniford Beach Halt on the West Somerset Railway. From Pictures i still cannot get over the changes to Old Oak Common from Kensal Green Washing Plant to what was the depot with the Factory, HST, Pullman, Heathrow , Servicing etc From the 1980’s & Fond memories of trying to get as many numbers either arriving or departing Paddington of my favorite class of locos the 50’s . I last & for the first ever time set foot in the depot @ the Open Day in 1994.
Quick two: The Central Line was not due to join the Great Central at Denham, instead terminating at its own station a matter of yards away. Secondly, I can't recall if you had a photo of the old Welsh Harp Station. If not, I've got one for you.
Many kinds of steam railmotors were used around the UK after 1900, often experimental products cobbled together by railway engineering companies and train company works to provide an economical unit for use on lightly used branch lines. However, many of them were short lived, being noisy and prone to vibration and shaking, unreliable, and, as mentioned, not very powerful, often slow and struggling with gradients or extra coaches. Drivers and firemen complained about the heat and cramped conditions. Passenger complaints were also frequent, so some of the railmotor units ended up being cut in two pieces - a coach after sets of wheels were added to one end with some remedial carpentry, and a small 0-4-0 tank locomotive which might be used for shunting or even to pull said coach on the lightly used branch line, where at least the passengers weren't so shaken up by the new configuration. In the end the diminutive locomotives were not even suitable for that role and were often replaced with something more conventional.
Tasmania had Sentinel Steam rail cars from 1931 until they were converted to trailer passenger cars in the 1950's. The Sentinels were powerful enough to pull one trailer car. Nowadays there are no public passenger services of any sort on Tasmanian railways (apart from preserved lines). NSW never used them, going straight to petrol powered rail motors in December 1923, then converted to diesel until their withdrawal in 1985.
@@ktipuss The upright boilered Sentinel Steam Railcars were the second generation attempts at Steam Railmotors, after petrol powered railbuses (such as the Ford Shefflex units that were basically two small buses running back to back) had been tried on lightly used railways after WW1 - and proved to be just as noisy, not that reliable and as prone to vibration as the earlier steam railcars. The Sentinels ran rather better, and were used on several British branch lines. They were used on the Jersey Eastern Railway until it shut in 1929, with locomotive section 'Dom' surviving into preservation after years working at the Chatham navy docks but ended up being scrapped in the early 70s by the Kent and East Sussex Railway. Dom's coach section is preserved on Jersey.
@@frglee The petrol powered NSW rail motors were more successful than the Ford Sefflex units it seems. Only alteration required was a roof-mounted radiator. They were re-motored with diesel motors after WW2 as the petrol motors became life-expired, and at the same time had multiple-unit controls fitted. The fact that several still run in preservation after 100 years shows how successful they have been.
When I was a lad I regularly train spotted steam engines with my loco shed book and combined volume in hand at the Old Oak Common and Willesdon train sheds.. They were a short walk from each other.
To be fair for the Church the Christmas season doesn't officially end until Candemas (2 February), so a video posted on 31 January is well within the Christmas season. So there's no incongruity in seeing Christmas decorations at Didcot, my two churches still have their Christmas trees up and nativity scenes out. (What is incongruous are Easter Eggs on sale in early January, and for that matter daffodils, though that's more worrying (climate change) than incongruous.) Fr Matt, Vicar
2nd of February? That's a date I've never heard before. I knew the 6th January (twelve days of Christmas), but now I'm going to have to go and do some reading.
@@mastertramsthe Christian year was split into 4 masses, Christmas, Candlemas, uh I forgetmas, and Michaelmas. The entire time from start of Christmas to start of Candlemas is Christmas season. This is also traditionally how school terms were arranged and called. (Of course now they’re “spring school term” instead of “candlemas school term”.)
Is Eastern Orthodox also terminating at same date or is the calendar shift applicable to Candlemas too ? (some leave decs up till march?) (Presentation of Jesus in the Temple?) I think CofE this year suggested Candlemas Sunday as last Sunday of Jan, but local churches could do first sunday in Feb if they wanted. This sort of avoided bumping too much into the start of Lent with Easter being a tad early this year.
I do hope Jago understands his role in preserving the mental health of his viewers. They represent a 7-9 minute oasis of sanity compared to what keeps turning up on my RUclips feed and my inbox. There is something very British about him and the stories he tells. When a new one turns up, I find myself having to judge if it's essential I watch it immediately, or save it for later in the day...
I wonder how many stations that were 'surplus to requirements' are now either open, or replaced by a new station on the same or nearly the same site? Admittedly, part of that may be that the population of the UK in general and London specifically has gone up a bit since WWII ended.
As a lad, I spent many a happy hour or two when I bunked into Old Oak Common MPD (Engine Shed) to see all the GWR locos stabled there. I was never evicted from the shed, even the 'Works' repair shed, which had a resident foreman.
@@batman51 Yep, but just walk in the main entrance on occasions. Sometimes when I finished a Saturday afternoon's stint on platform 5 at Paddington, I would jump on an empty stock back to Old Oak Carriage sidings and jump off there for a quick squint around the shed.
@@batman51 Good god, I remember that so well, got in that way to see the renovated City of Truro. There were literally scores of kids in there that day, all through the fence. Management seemed to turn a blind eye, and we were all well behaved.
6:23 I’ve only just realised this is the station I commute to several times a week! North Acton. I’ve always wanted to ask, what’s with the set of non-tube rails on the right? It has recently had some weeds cleared, but I’m not sure anything uses it all at the moment? Very rusty rails.
Yet another great video Jago! I was a volunteer worker on Flying Scotsman prior to it being bought by the NRM. The first test run I went on was an all nighters down to Westbury and back. We left Southall shed and ran to Old Oak Common yard where Scotsman was turned on the turntable (I'm assuming this has now gone?). We sat in the support coach for an hour or two and had a clamber aboard Union of South Africa that was at rest in the yard. I watched Scotsman slowly steaming backwards and forwards through Old Oak Common, great memories from around 20 years ago of a place now built over.
The Great Centrall's main line to London was indeed convulted running via Sheffield. however with Beeching/BR/Barbara Castle we also lost the Derby-Buxton-Manchester link that I think has made it tedious and expensive getting from the East Midlands to Manchester by Rail. This would not cost too much to put back in place. Obviously not much in the way of new big housing developments as the Peak District National Park is in the way , but would have added better connections and taken traffice off busy roads for leisure travel
I'm not sure that the terminology is correct. My understanding is that the New North Main Line refers to the section of line between Old Oak Common and Northolt Junction (immediately to the east of South Ruislip station) and was used only by the GWR. At Northolt Junction it joined the GCR's link from it's original main line, which it shared with the Metropolitan Railway, at Neasden (via Sudbury) to form the GW and GC Joint line, which the two companies shared as far as Ashendon Junction. At Ashendon the GWR continued towards Bicester and Aynho Junction, while the GCR turned north and connected with its original main line at Grendon Underwood Junction, near Calvert. This arrangement gave the GCR an alternative route between Neasden and Buckinghamshire and it gave the GWR a more direct route to High Wycombe, Bicester, Banbury and Birmingham
P.s. After watching your video - an interesting thing happen - @ 1:56 - you talked about "Rail Motors" - Well as I said after watching your Video - I watched Sam's Trains & in his video - he is Reviewing "A Steam Powered Coach!? | Kernow's New GWR Railmotor | Unboxing & Review" !!! 😉🚂🚂🚂
Excellent video, as always, Jago. Whilst I do ceetainly echo your sentiments regarding HS2 now being 'flaky' and by default, some of our rail project 'street cred' internationally has been damaged, if not disappeared, I do have a bit of an argument against HS2 being rebuilt along the GCR. Don't get me wrong, NOTHING would give me greater joy than visiting the awesome Monsal Dale Viaduct in Derbyshire and seeing a train, any train, on it rather than a cyclist and a woman walking her pooch!! But, it was recently pointed out to me by a retired rail projects manager that GCR was built so late. (1906 or so), that the line had to curve very sharply round conurbations, have many stations that were not very conveniently situated and probably, certainly for the speeds required to make it viable today, it sadly just isn't a sound proposition. Trust me, no one wanted that to happen more than me, so much so, that I didn't just take his word for it, but I specifically checked it out and whilst some parts could have been useful, the amount that were not would indeed, sadly make it unfeasible. Also, I recently attended a talk about Dr. Richard Beeching and his 'legacy' and it basically showed that whilst some of the closures were perhaps a bit over zealous and certainly didn't take into account the dreadful effect it had and still does have, on some communities, mine included, there was a case for quite a lot of the lines to go. Some were built, cos we could, not cos we should. Something like 92% of the revenue came from 12% of the network and other equally telling figures. ( I may be a bit out, but it was something like those figures.) I advocate for the railways being a service, NOT just a profit making organisation, but even I had to admit that some of the system just didn't make sense to keep it all. But what is mostly forgotten when we mention Dr. Beeching was how he heralded in things like Railfreight with containerisation, Inter City services that led to the HST and many other lesser innovations that we not only still have today but which are expanding. Also the speeding up of replacing the beautiful, romantic, but very inefficient and labour intensive, steam locomotives, with more boring, but far more practical diesels and electrics and at a time that we could better afford it. What state would the railway be in now, if we had not replaced them all then and waited until say the 80s, when we had to make do and mend. If we got 'Pacers' to keep things going, how likely would a wholesale replacement of steam have been likely then? We'd probably have still had to have some in service now. It's very nostalgic, but we'd be a laughing stock. And let's not forget that because of those closures, the Serpell Report in the 1980's was thankfully binned that wanted to cut away around 80%t of even what Beeching had left us. It made Beeching's report look like a walk in the park in comparison. So it is very easy to get all 'rose coloured' and nostalgic and I absolutely do too, but I'd suggest that sometimes you have to be realistic and even perhaps a little 'cruel to be kind' for the bigger picture, sometimes.
There were similar reasons for not building it alongside the M40, because I felt that that would negate most of the objections about noise and physical impact since the damage has probably already been done anyway with the motorway being there, but again it seems that it would've been too twisty
"Flaky" is being polite. But what do I know? I think they in the process of creating a line that Dr Beeching would have axed. I remain to be convinced. Maybe if connects in some way to Manchester and/or further afield, it might yet justify its existence. (I may not be around long enough to see it). Otherwise, great video Jago. Fascinating history. Definitely the mega station to my occasional halte.
I do worry that this Government are trying to do Beeching all over again. We already know that Sunak thinks railways are worthless, and its only because of Hunt that Euston HS2 hasn't been completely abandoned just yet. Sunak is also keen to redirect a lot of money from railways to roads and airports as well... I hope this is just Sunak being evil and not a repeat of Marples' conflicting interests.
It’s the disused track of the “New North Main Line”, that let GWR trains go from Paddington to West Ruislip alongside the Central line. (Search Wikipedia for North Acton tube station and it mentions it)
Nibbles of it , remember no one was using the train hardly in large areas, British rail could not even tell you exactly how many people in employed . Here are the facts in 1963 the report was sat on. 1965 labour won the election and started the wholesale slaughter of the lines. (Stopped in the main by heath,tory, in 1970) .After liebour closed the lines they then gave beeching an award . THESE ARE THE REAL FACTS @@Inkyminkyzizwoz
you talk absolute garbage . Remember capitalism built this country ,never socialism which has failed everywhere , world over , zero success. Here's a fact. All labour governments have left office with a ruined economy and higher unemployment, even now the root of the nhs problems are down to blair, stop making yourself look silly and deal in facts .Now imagine how bad it would really be today under labour, think yourself lucky @@neiloflongbeck5705
and sat on until 1965. labour won the election and shut the lines wholesale . like the pits of the 60's , closed them wholesale and blair saved no pits in the 90's .Careful who you vote for @@Inkyminkyzizwoz
I agree about looking flaky. Real stupidity getting rid of the Great Central, should at least have been mothballed. Then the HS2 money would have been better spent re-instating the GCR and improving junctions and quadrupling other lines in places.
Does anyone know ow if the plan as it stands involves moving the stations of the other various lines to make them into an easier interchange? Or will people be traipsing down sidestreets to change?
Quote "We are looking flakey in front of the oth believe that other countries", I agree Jago, unfortunately the people who are in charge of the country believe that there is only pond life north of Brum. They shutdown the one of the three routes north, shut one of the important cross country routes over the Pennines and now now they are pretending to throw us a lifeline with the "Northern Powerhouse" non project. And I am sorry, I don't hear any of the other parties promising us anything in the way of an improvement. I think us northerners should vote to become part of Scotland and just declare UDI.
I'm kind of curious how you curate and store so many film clips in such a way as to be easily retreivable when putting a new video together. Thank you for doing so, anyway.
Ernest Marples, minister of Transport at the time, personally benefited from the closure of railways. That's why he commissioned Beeching to write his reports. What's the maxim? Never trust ... ...
@@neiloflongbeck5705no need to mothball, just use it for local journeys and freight. Yk, like they’re planning to do on the WCML after HS2 arrives. Except they’d have the option of switching to long distance rather than switching away from it.
They should build a new stop on the WCML at Willesden and market both it and OOC as one big WCML/GWML/HS2/Crossrail/Overground interchange (even put in a link to North Acton and bring the Tube in too). As it stands, I don’t really see what purpose OOC will serve other than for linking HS2 passengers to Crossrail and Heathrow. If it turns out to be the terminus of HS2, then the UK will have been successful in constructing the biggest, most expensive white elephant this side of Kazakhstan and single handedly destroying the business case for long distance travel on HS2. If classic compatible trains from Glasgow end up terminating at OOC, and are incapable of travelling above 110mph north of Handsacre (due to not being tilt/EPS capable), then Heathrow will definitely need a 3rd runway. HS2 has its flaws, but build it all, or none of it, this rump of a high speed line is utterly pointless. It would be like having the M6 running from Coventry to Stoke with a single carriageway A road at either end linking Manchester and London.
I lived at 65 Wells House Road until 1968 and just remember the grassy bank where the platforms had been removed. A great place to live for a boy who enjoyed watching trains go by and I witnessed the transition from steam locos to diesel engine.
@@highpath4776 the last 4 recent videos are not captioned... all i know is that it is something the poster has to select when uploading. it can take a few hours for them to be available after a video is live.
I think almost no political blunder of the last decade annoys me more than HS2. Yes that is probably typical of a Jago Hazzard viewer, but it is so infuriating and so prototypical an example of what is wrong with Britain at present. The idea that we boldly set out to build a exemplary high speed railway that could serve Britain for hundreds of years, and instead could end up with essentially a shuttle service between Birmingham and West London, is simply intolerable.
Had BR in the 1960’s known what we do now, I think things would’ve played a whole lot different… particularly the GCR main line would still be in revenue earning use. In contrast to the fact that we wouldn’t have the GCR as a heritage railway…
Old Oak Common station once HS2 is should be called “West London International” or “West London Interchange”. And 2 new London Overground stations to be built close to the new station.
I’ll never understand the rationale in removing capacity and resiliency from a system. GWR et al famously gave themselves room to grow, and benefited greatly from it. Marples and Beeching said “extra capacity is wasteful! Cut that down to the bone! There, much more efficient!” Still, thank god we don’t have to deal with that kind of thinking anymore, eh? Emergency repairs that cost orders of magnitude more than maintenance, no capacity left in any public service, that would certainly be a frightening world if that were the case. Thankfully Tories learned their lesson good and proper, and never ever stripped resiliency away from crucial societal systems in the supposed name of efficiency ever again. 🙃
Should HS2 have been routed Manchester Airport / Leeds Bradford Airport / Sheffield Airport / Nottingham Robin Hood Airport to meet Birmingham International to LHR then Southampton Airport for Channel Isles ?
Are you going to do a video on the new Circle Line circular tube maps sponsored by Samsung? Their Galaxy phone campaign in conjunction with TfL is only on underground display for 2 weeks (at 5 or 6 choice Circle line stations) so you'll have to move fast !!!
East of Pennines had *three* mainlines: Gt.Central, ECML & MML. West of the Pennines had one, the WCML. Gt.Central was axed in 1969. We will have: East: MML, ECML. West: WCML, HS2. So evening out. Manchester used the Gt.Central for some services crossing the Pennines. Main route was WCML.
I’m a bigger fan of the old Great Central Railway rather than the confused infrastructure the government has tried to put in its place. I honestly wish more GCR locos had been preserved to run on hertigage lines and create a better image for line to Manchester.
It's ironic how a lot of the people that say that HS2 is a waste of time and money are often the same ones that lament the closure of lines such as the GC!
Well that was a nice coincidence. I've just watched Fred Dibnah on tv at the other end of the GWR at Didcot and thought I'd have a quick shufty at youtube before popping off to bedforshire. Um. Puns, yeah sorry. HS2. Agreed. I despair at the human race. Spike Milligan was right. Well someone was anyway.
Hearing Jago explaining all the trains and transport that the new station will service sounds very impressive, and maybe it is. It's just I can't quite envisage how it's going to make that many people's lives that much better. And could we stop calling it HS2? Government policy now seems to be that to reduce costs, we will reduce speed, giving us MS2 (Mediocre Speed 2). Previously, in order to cost justify HS2, the government would rachet up the frequency of the service. I wouldn't swear to it, but I'm sure I saw a figure of 18 departures an hour mentioned. But with lower speed trains and infrastructure, surely the frequency must be affected in downwards trajectory? Anyway, I can exclusively reveal why this insanity has been forced upon the nation. Lord Adonis is the man who forced it through. If you Google him, then "Terror Management Theory (TMT)", and maybe the death salient, things may drop into place. It also explains why a handful of aging, unelected bureaucrats decided we'd have a Federal Europe.
Is there any such idea to extend the central line to denham or otherwise move the western terminus of the central line? I recall hearing someone put forward the idea of putting that end in Uxbridge
1:40 No apology required. The whole HST2 saga is a mess, and rightly deserves to be pilloried. Not the concept, rather the interference that has stuffed it up. Very short sighted to close the Great Central's Line, but in the 60's it was assumed that everyone would go everywhere by car using very cheap petrol on Sir Ernest Marples' motorways. Cheap petrol - that didn't last long.
Old Oak Common's original station wasn't called Old Oak Common, and it technically wasn't a station... Jago, we have talked about this. You need to take a deep breath, have a nice cup of tea and lie down for a bit. HS2 rant, bah humbug etc... Well I did warn you.
Loved Jago's rant about HS2!
But he does have a point. 👍
The Chiltern Tunnel should be breaking through any day now
Our railway planning does look flaky in front of the other countries as well as in front of, erm, us too!
Whato all,
Jago is certainly in inferring the Great Central should have never closed. Sadly it was destroyed because of railway politics but would be a story for another time.
@@66PHILB Mind you, projects such as Stuttgart 21 ought to demonstrate that things aren't always efficient on the continent either!
It would be fun if they built a replica pagoda shelter in the new station forecourt as a nod to its original heritage. Not a snowball's chance that they will, but it would be fun.
Perhaps a coffee shop with the pagoda theme?
It surely wouldn't be that expensive to build a pagoda. Planning may be a problem but if it were gained perhaps we could all club together (I believe the modern term is crowd fund) and have one built.
Put Bicycles in it! :)
Reminds me of my first visit to the new Wembley Stadium. Took my seat, looked around and was very unimpressed. It looked as if it had been designed and built by an accountant. There was a pitch surrounded by seats - and bugger all else. Then I remembered it was an accountant that had brought the thing home after any number of financial disasters - Mark Pallios
@@TheNemocharliethe fact there isn’t even a nod to the towers is a joke
As a young trainspotter, I'd make the trip from Watford to Old Oak Common. So much to see in one day!
Surely you included a bunk in at Willesden?
@@Rog5446 wouldnt Willesden Locos be seen easily in Watford, OOC GW ones less so
@@highpath4776 What about the tanks employed on ESW's from Euston to the carriage sidings, and those types employed on the west London line cross London workings.
@@Rog5446 Before my time and knowledge, alas
I remember many years ago walking from Willesden Junction to Old Oak Common depot to see the Hymeks, Westerns,Warships and the Class 47s and 50s. It was a bit of a trek
Did the same thing, taking a walk alongside the Grand Union Canal, where there was an entrance to the depot.
@@HertsCommuter Me too! Although it was in the last days of steam and to me the early diesels were a curiosity but otherwise unwelcome.
Even more years ago, I went often to Old Oak, as we knew it, to cop steam locos...Castles, Kings, Saints, tanner-oners (61xx tax engines), and lots of others. Happy days!
Did that walk many many times. Happy days
NB. On your lovely graphic - 'West Ruislip' was actually called 'Ruislip and Ickenham' prior to the opening of the Central Line extension in 1948. It was then renamed 'West Ruislip (for Ickenham)' to differentiate itself from the two separate stations for 'Ruislip' and 'Ickenham' on the Metropolitan Line. South Ruislip was originally called Northolt Junction and then South Ruislip and Northolt Junction in 1932, until becoming just South Ruislip in 1948.
This is true.
If there were a competition for the best vid of the year on YT this should win. History, Current Affairs, Humour, Pathos. 6min30 of classic telly really.
Thanks!
I enjoyed the semaphore signals at Greenford!
It's still there today. There are a few down there. Beautiful survivors.
“Looking flaky in front of the other countries”… sorry Jago, but that is a train that left a loooong time ago 😊
It's because have no say in picking our politicians, being given a choice between Numpty One and Numpty Two.
Thanks
And thank you!
Glad to have found you again Mr H. I changed phones so I lost all my RUclips subscription channels. I was watchîng Sam’s Trains review of the Kernow Models GWR railmotor. Someone in the comments mentioned this video. So here I am again. It’s good to be back!
I’m am now going to binge watch all the videos I’ve missed over the last 6 weeks 😂
Welcome back!
Boy, It's hard to believe there was a station here before the new one. THIS IS THE SITE OF THE GREAT WESTERN'S BIGGEST YARD!
(THis is me writing just after I realise it was in North Acton)
Don’t forget there is another restored working Pagoda shelter @ Doniford Beach Halt on the West Somerset Railway.
From Pictures i still cannot get over the changes to Old Oak Common from Kensal Green Washing Plant to what was the depot with the Factory, HST, Pullman, Heathrow , Servicing etc From the 1980’s & Fond memories of trying to get as many numbers either arriving or departing Paddington of my favorite class of locos the 50’s .
I last & for the first ever time set foot in the depot @ the Open Day in 1994.
Quick two:
The Central Line was not due to join the Great Central at Denham, instead terminating at its own station a matter of yards away.
Secondly, I can't recall if you had a photo of the old Welsh Harp Station. If not, I've got one for you.
He said in the video that there weren't any records of what the station looked like, presumably simply meaning that he hadn't managed to find any
Many kinds of steam railmotors were used around the UK after 1900, often experimental products cobbled together by railway engineering companies and train company works to provide an economical unit for use on lightly used branch lines. However, many of them were short lived, being noisy and prone to vibration and shaking, unreliable, and, as mentioned, not very powerful, often slow and struggling with gradients or extra coaches. Drivers and firemen complained about the heat and cramped conditions.
Passenger complaints were also frequent, so some of the railmotor units ended up being cut in two pieces - a coach after sets of wheels were added to one end with some remedial carpentry, and a small 0-4-0 tank locomotive which might be used for shunting or even to pull said coach on the lightly used branch line, where at least the passengers weren't so shaken up by the new configuration. In the end the diminutive locomotives were not even suitable for that role and were often replaced with something more conventional.
One of those things still runs on a narrow gauge tourist line in South Australia. It is a very strange looking creature.
Thanks for that. Very informative. 👍👍👍👍
Tasmania had Sentinel Steam rail cars from 1931 until they were converted to trailer passenger cars in the 1950's. The Sentinels were powerful enough to pull one trailer car.
Nowadays there are no public passenger services of any sort on Tasmanian railways (apart from preserved lines).
NSW never used them, going straight to petrol powered rail motors in December 1923, then converted to diesel until their withdrawal in 1985.
@@ktipuss The upright boilered Sentinel Steam Railcars were the second generation attempts at Steam Railmotors, after petrol powered railbuses (such as the Ford Shefflex units that were basically two small buses running back to back) had been tried on lightly used railways after WW1 - and proved to be just as noisy, not that reliable and as prone to vibration as the earlier steam railcars.
The Sentinels ran rather better, and were used on several British branch lines. They were used on the Jersey Eastern Railway until it shut in 1929, with locomotive section 'Dom' surviving into preservation after years working at the Chatham navy docks but ended up being scrapped in the early 70s by the Kent and East Sussex Railway. Dom's coach section is preserved on Jersey.
@@frglee The petrol powered NSW rail motors were more successful than the Ford Sefflex units it seems. Only alteration required was a roof-mounted radiator. They were re-motored with diesel motors after WW2 as the petrol motors became life-expired, and at the same time had multiple-unit controls fitted. The fact that several still run in preservation after 100 years shows how successful they have been.
When I was a lad I regularly train spotted steam engines with my loco shed book and combined volume in hand at the Old Oak Common and Willesdon train sheds.. They were a short walk from each other.
I'm ashamed and angry that HS2 has turned into such a mess.
Usual detailed research into a complex history and turned into a most interesting video.
Brilliant video sir, love your videos!
Always a good watch
To be fair for the Church the Christmas season doesn't officially end until Candemas (2 February), so a video posted on 31 January is well within the Christmas season. So there's no incongruity in seeing Christmas decorations at Didcot, my two churches still have their Christmas trees up and nativity scenes out. (What is incongruous are Easter Eggs on sale in early January, and for that matter daffodils, though that's more worrying (climate change) than incongruous.)
Fr Matt, Vicar
2nd of February? That's a date I've never heard before. I knew the 6th January (twelve days of Christmas), but now I'm going to have to go and do some reading.
@@mastertramsthe Christian year was split into 4 masses, Christmas, Candlemas, uh I forgetmas, and Michaelmas. The entire time from start of Christmas to start of Candlemas is Christmas season. This is also traditionally how school terms were arranged and called. (Of course now they’re “spring school term” instead of “candlemas school term”.)
Is Eastern Orthodox also terminating at same date or is the calendar shift applicable to Candlemas too ? (some leave decs up till march?) (Presentation of Jesus in the Temple?) I think CofE this year suggested Candlemas Sunday as last Sunday of Jan, but local churches could do first sunday in Feb if they wanted. This sort of avoided bumping too much into the start of Lent with Easter being a tad early this year.
Funny you mention the Christmas continuity, I only just got around to shoving my tree back up in the attic this morning!
I do hope Jago understands his role in preserving the mental health of his viewers. They represent a 7-9 minute oasis of sanity compared to what keeps turning up on my RUclips feed and my inbox. There is something very British about him and the stories he tells. When a new one turns up, I find myself having to judge if it's essential I watch it immediately, or save it for later in the day...
In my you tube subscription list this video was directly below Sam's Trains review of the new Kernow model rail centre autocoach model.
I wonder how many stations that were 'surplus to requirements' are now either open, or replaced by a new station on the same or nearly the same site? Admittedly, part of that may be that the population of the UK in general and London specifically has gone up a bit since WWII ended.
I do love a rant. 😂
As a lad, I spent many a happy hour or two when I bunked into Old Oak Common MPD (Engine Shed) to see all the GWR locos stabled there.
I was never evicted from the shed, even the 'Works' repair shed, which had a resident foreman.
Via the hole in the fence by the canal?
@@batman51 Yep, but just walk in the main entrance on occasions. Sometimes when I finished a Saturday afternoon's stint on platform 5 at Paddington, I would jump on an empty stock back to Old Oak Carriage sidings and jump off there for a quick squint around the shed.
@@Rog5446I was usually coming from Willesden shed!
@@batman51 Good god, I remember that so well, got in that way to see the renovated City of Truro. There were literally scores of kids in there that day, all through the fence. Management seemed to turn a blind eye, and we were all well behaved.
another amazing video! Great work jago
So much steam railmotor content on YT today!
6:23 I’ve only just realised this is the station I commute to several times a week! North Acton. I’ve always wanted to ask, what’s with the set of non-tube rails on the right? It has recently had some weeds cleared, but I’m not sure anything uses it all at the moment? Very rusty rails.
Can we talk about that double Central train shot? That was fortuitous!
Can’t wait to see what Old Oak Common station will be like once it’s completed.
Did Old Oak Common previously have a nearby Common, with an old Oak tree on it perhaps?
I suspect both are very much long gone if so.
@AFCManUk It is very near Wormwood Scrubs, which, as well as having the prison there is open parkland. I should think your guess is correct.
Class Jago
Great video Jago
Yet another great video Jago! I was a volunteer worker on Flying Scotsman prior to it being bought by the NRM. The first test run I went on was an all nighters down to Westbury and back. We left Southall shed and ran to Old Oak Common yard where Scotsman was turned on the turntable (I'm assuming this has now gone?). We sat in the support coach for an hour or two and had a clamber aboard Union of South Africa that was at rest in the yard. I watched Scotsman slowly steaming backwards and forwards through Old Oak Common, great memories from around 20 years ago of a place now built over.
The Great Centrall's main line to London was indeed convulted running via Sheffield. however with Beeching/BR/Barbara Castle we also lost the Derby-Buxton-Manchester link that I think has made it tedious and expensive getting from the East Midlands to Manchester by Rail. This would not cost too much to put back in place. Obviously not much in the way of new big housing developments as the Peak District National Park is in the way , but would have added better connections and taken traffice off busy roads for leisure travel
The Khan gif, but its about Beeching (or Marples) instead.
Those Rail motors were the staple of so many lines around South Wales. I end up featuring them in so many videos I make.
Did the GWR ever consider extending the New North Main Line beyond Aynho to Lapworth, to join up with the four track line into Birmingham?
I'm not sure that the terminology is correct. My understanding is that the New North Main Line refers to the section of line between Old Oak Common and Northolt Junction (immediately to the east of South Ruislip station) and was used only by the GWR. At Northolt Junction it joined the GCR's link from it's original main line, which it shared with the Metropolitan Railway, at Neasden (via Sudbury) to form the GW and GC Joint line, which the two companies shared as far as Ashendon Junction. At Ashendon the GWR continued towards Bicester and Aynho Junction, while the GCR turned north and connected with its original main line at Grendon Underwood Junction, near Calvert. This arrangement gave the GCR an alternative route between Neasden and Buckinghamshire and it gave the GWR a more direct route to High Wycombe, Bicester, Banbury and Birmingham
Good informative thanks
GW Railmotors, as featured on Same Trains in the last hour.
Oh Hello Jago - I'm quite early view this Lovely Video - only 6 mins ago with 431 Views!!! Interesting comparison between the 2 Stations!!! 🤔😉🚂🚂🚂
P.s. After watching your video - an interesting thing happen - @ 1:56 - you talked about "Rail Motors" - Well as I said after watching your Video - I watched Sam's Trains & in his video - he is Reviewing "A Steam Powered Coach!? | Kernow's New GWR Railmotor | Unboxing & Review" !!! 😉🚂🚂🚂
Excellent video, as always, Jago.
Whilst I do ceetainly echo your sentiments regarding HS2 now being 'flaky' and by default, some of our rail project 'street cred' internationally has been damaged, if not disappeared, I do have a bit of an argument against HS2 being rebuilt along the GCR.
Don't get me wrong, NOTHING would give me greater joy than visiting the awesome Monsal Dale Viaduct in Derbyshire and seeing a train, any train, on it rather than a cyclist and a woman walking her pooch!!
But, it was recently pointed out to me by a retired rail projects manager that GCR was built so late. (1906 or so), that the line had to curve very sharply round conurbations, have many stations that were not very conveniently situated and probably, certainly for the speeds required to make it viable today, it sadly just isn't a sound proposition.
Trust me, no one wanted that to happen more than me, so much so, that I didn't just take his word for it, but I specifically checked it out and whilst some parts could have been useful, the amount that were not would indeed, sadly make it unfeasible.
Also, I recently attended a talk about Dr. Richard Beeching and his 'legacy' and it basically showed that whilst some of the closures were perhaps a bit over zealous and certainly didn't take into account the dreadful effect it had and still does have, on some communities, mine included, there was a case for quite a lot of the lines to go. Some were built, cos we could, not cos we should.
Something like 92% of the revenue came from 12% of the network and other equally telling figures. ( I may be a bit out, but it was something like those figures.)
I advocate for the railways being a service, NOT just a profit making organisation, but even I had to admit that some of the system just didn't make sense to keep it all.
But what is mostly forgotten when we mention Dr. Beeching was how he heralded in things like Railfreight with containerisation, Inter City services that led to the HST and many other lesser innovations that we not only still have today but which are expanding. Also the speeding up of replacing the beautiful, romantic, but very inefficient and labour intensive, steam locomotives, with more boring, but far more practical diesels and electrics and at a time that we could better afford it.
What state would the railway be in now, if we had not replaced them all then and waited until say the 80s, when we had to make do and mend.
If we got 'Pacers' to keep things going, how likely would a wholesale replacement of steam have been likely then? We'd probably have still had to have some in service now.
It's very nostalgic, but we'd be a laughing stock.
And let's not forget that because of those closures, the Serpell Report in the 1980's was thankfully binned that wanted to cut away around 80%t of even what Beeching had left us.
It made Beeching's report look like a walk in the park in comparison.
So it is very easy to get all 'rose coloured' and nostalgic and I absolutely do too, but I'd suggest that sometimes you have to be realistic and even perhaps a little 'cruel to be kind' for the bigger picture, sometimes.
There were similar reasons for not building it alongside the M40, because I felt that that would negate most of the objections about noise and physical impact since the damage has probably already been done anyway with the motorway being there, but again it seems that it would've been too twisty
@@Inkyminkyzizwoz That's a fair point
"Flaky" is being polite. But what do I know? I think they in the process of creating a line that Dr Beeching would have axed. I remain to be convinced. Maybe if connects in some way to Manchester and/or further afield, it might yet justify its existence. (I may not be around long enough to see it).
Otherwise, great video Jago. Fascinating history. Definitely the mega station to my occasional halte.
I do worry that this Government are trying to do Beeching all over again. We already know that Sunak thinks railways are worthless, and its only because of Hunt that Euston HS2 hasn't been completely abandoned just yet. Sunak is also keen to redirect a lot of money from railways to roads and airports as well... I hope this is just Sunak being evil and not a repeat of Marples' conflicting interests.
you mean a line that in hindsight should have never been closed
It’s not a part of London I know well, but there’s a lot of decent railway history to mine there!
Was that an uncharacteristic Jago raised emotion there? Good on you.
perhaps a missed opportunity to title the video "The Old Old Oak Common"...
Very nice video
4:42 - What is the single-track line to the right?
It’s the disused track of the “New North Main Line”, that let GWR trains go from Paddington to West Ruislip alongside the Central line. (Search Wikipedia for North Acton tube station and it mentions it)
@@soundingJack - Thanks for the information.👍
1:13 never beeching but the labour party .They decimated the lines and then gave beeching an award
The closure programme started under the Conservatives
Nibbles of it , remember no one was using the train hardly in large areas, British rail could not even tell you exactly how many people in employed . Here are the facts in 1963 the report was sat on. 1965 labour won the election and started the wholesale slaughter of the lines. (Stopped in the main by heath,tory, in 1970) .After liebour closed the lines they then gave beeching an award . THESE ARE THE REAL FACTS @@Inkyminkyzizwoz
you talk absolute garbage . Remember capitalism built this country ,never socialism which has failed everywhere , world over , zero success. Here's a fact. All labour governments have left office with a ruined economy and higher unemployment, even now the root of the nhs problems are down to blair, stop making yourself look silly and deal in facts .Now imagine how bad it would really be today under labour, think yourself lucky @@neiloflongbeck5705
@@bobtudbury8505 But the report was published in 1963
and sat on until 1965. labour won the election and shut the lines wholesale . like the pits of the 60's , closed them wholesale and blair saved no pits in the 90's .Careful who you vote for @@Inkyminkyzizwoz
Please can we have detailed Maps of how this alignment was updated?
I agree about looking flaky. Real stupidity getting rid of the Great Central, should at least have been mothballed. Then the HS2 money would have been better spent re-instating the GCR and improving junctions and quadrupling other lines in places.
So if we had them today, I’m guessing we’d call a rail-motor an SMU (steam multiple unit)?
Jago, there has to be a Guinness brewery Park Royal video surely.
I am honoured to be a pagoda shelter
HS2=HS1/2
😆
How appropriate to mention pagodas when we are entering Lunar New Year week.
Does anyone know ow if the plan as it stands involves moving the stations of the other various lines to make them into an easier interchange? Or will people be traipsing down sidestreets to change?
Quote "We are looking flakey in front of the oth believe that other countries", I agree Jago, unfortunately the people who are in charge of the country believe that there is only pond life north of Brum. They shutdown the one of the three routes north, shut one of the important cross country routes over the Pennines and now now they are pretending to throw us a lifeline with the "Northern Powerhouse" non project. And I am sorry, I don't hear any of the other parties promising us anything in the way of an improvement. I think us northerners should vote to become part of Scotland and just declare UDI.
Bring back Danegeld ?
I'm kind of curious how you curate and store so many film clips in such a way as to be easily retreivable when putting a new video together. Thank you for doing so, anyway.
They could've saved so much money just keeping the GCR mainline or even GWR mainline services through to Birmingham!
The GWR mainline wouldn't have fixed the capacity issues that are the reason HS2 is being built. The GCR might have been enough
Ernest Marples, minister of Transport at the time, personally benefited from the closure of railways. That's why he commissioned Beeching to write his reports.
What's the maxim? Never trust ... ...
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
@@hi-viz True, it's more that there is more potential in the current railways that is being used. Plus it's no where near as expensive.
@@neiloflongbeck5705no need to mothball, just use it for local journeys and freight. Yk, like they’re planning to do on the WCML after HS2 arrives. Except they’d have the option of switching to long distance rather than switching away from it.
what we have now is " less old " oak common
What about about renaming HS2 to the ‘New North Mainline’ sorry the ‘New West Midlands Mainline’?
Maybe the Newer North Mainline
They should build a new stop on the WCML at Willesden and market both it and OOC as one big WCML/GWML/HS2/Crossrail/Overground interchange (even put in a link to North Acton and bring the Tube in too). As it stands, I don’t really see what purpose OOC will serve other than for linking HS2 passengers to Crossrail and Heathrow.
If it turns out to be the terminus of HS2, then the UK will have been successful in constructing the biggest, most expensive white elephant this side of Kazakhstan and single handedly destroying the business case for long distance travel on HS2. If classic compatible trains from Glasgow end up terminating at OOC, and are incapable of travelling above 110mph north of Handsacre (due to not being tilt/EPS capable), then Heathrow will definitely need a 3rd runway. HS2 has its flaws, but build it all, or none of it, this rump of a high speed line is utterly pointless. It would be like having the M6 running from Coventry to Stoke with a single carriageway A road at either end linking Manchester and London.
was there a new oak common and when the tree(s) grew up was it renamed old oak common?
all the nice guys come second....
🥉
4:15
(E&SBR)
Breaking News: Government announces that to save money HS2 will now have lower semaphore signalling and use class 140-144 Pacers.
I lived at 65 Wells House Road until 1968 and just remember the grassy bank where the platforms had been removed. A great place to live for a boy who enjoyed watching trains go by and I witnessed the transition from steam locos to diesel engine.
what happened to your videos having captions? i am deaf and depend on them to fully understand the dialog!
doesnt the auto subtitle come a bit later by YT
@@highpath4776 the last 4 recent videos are not captioned... all i know is that it is something the poster has to select when uploading. it can take a few hours for them to be available after a video is live.
Old Oak Common Station Is a Good Idea 👍
I think almost no political blunder of the last decade annoys me more than HS2. Yes that is probably typical of a Jago Hazzard viewer, but it is so infuriating and so prototypical an example of what is wrong with Britain at present. The idea that we boldly set out to build a exemplary high speed railway that could serve Britain for hundreds of years, and instead could end up with essentially a shuttle service between Birmingham and West London, is simply intolerable.
It might not even make it to Birmingham. It's only committed, at present, to get to Solihul.
@@Tevildothey're still building the station at Curzon Street as I understand it.
@@RichardWatt You're right, they started construction last week. I must admit not to keeping up with the very latest news on the project.
@@Tevildo And Bickenhill can barely be called Solihull!
@@LesD9 Well, it's technically in Solihull, rather than Birmingham proper, in the same way that Old Oak Common is technically in Fulham.
Maybe it should be reborn as HC2 - High Capacity & Connectivity too... 🤔
Had BR in the 1960’s known what we do now, I think things would’ve played a whole lot different… particularly the GCR main line would still be in revenue earning use. In contrast to the fact that we wouldn’t have the GCR as a heritage railway…
Old Oak Common station once HS2 is should be called “West London International” or “West London Interchange”. And 2 new London Overground stations to be built close to the new station.
So... should we call it "New Old Oak Common"? Or would that just cancel out, leaving "Oak Common"?
Old Oak Common New.
I’ll never understand the rationale in removing capacity and resiliency from a system. GWR et al famously gave themselves room to grow, and benefited greatly from it. Marples and Beeching said “extra capacity is wasteful! Cut that down to the bone! There, much more efficient!”
Still, thank god we don’t have to deal with that kind of thinking anymore, eh? Emergency repairs that cost orders of magnitude more than maintenance, no capacity left in any public service, that would certainly be a frightening world if that were the case. Thankfully Tories learned their lesson good and proper, and never ever stripped resiliency away from crucial societal systems in the supposed name of efficiency ever again.
🙃
Great Western - lets close that line over Dartmoor to Plymouth.
Moral of the Story: Doesn’t matter where you are, anything is happening.
Should HS2 have been routed Manchester Airport / Leeds Bradford Airport / Sheffield Airport / Nottingham Robin Hood Airport to meet Birmingham International to LHR then Southampton Airport for Channel Isles ?
Are you going to do a video on the new Circle Line circular tube maps sponsored by Samsung? Their Galaxy phone campaign in conjunction with TfL is only on underground display for 2 weeks (at 5 or 6 choice Circle line stations) so you'll have to move fast !!!
Sad to see the Brown Boveri gas turbine loco 18000 seemingly alone and rotting in the distance at 4:08 :/
Yeah I noticed that too. Great loco.
East of Pennines had *three* mainlines: Gt.Central, ECML & MML.
West of the Pennines had one, the WCML.
Gt.Central was axed in 1969.
We will have:
East: MML, ECML.
West: WCML, HS2.
So evening out.
Manchester used the Gt.Central for some services crossing the Pennines. Main route was WCML.
I’m a bigger fan of the old Great Central Railway rather than the confused infrastructure the government has tried to put in its place. I honestly wish more GCR locos had been preserved to run on hertigage lines and create a better image for line to Manchester.
They are going to regret the cut backs with HS2.
No shade to (caffeine free😡) Brent Cross West but this is the first station I've ever been excited for🎉🤸🏾♀🎉
It's ironic how a lot of the people that say that HS2 is a waste of time and money are often the same ones that lament the closure of lines such as the GC!
Looks like Vera's on the platform of the holte waiting, has there been a murder?
There's something unnerving about North Action station
The Iron Horse becomes Irony
Ironic indeed!
No "You are the Old Oak to my Common"?
Well that was a nice coincidence. I've just watched Fred Dibnah on tv at the other end of the GWR at Didcot and thought I'd have a quick shufty at youtube before popping off to bedforshire. Um. Puns, yeah sorry.
HS2. Agreed. I despair at the human race. Spike Milligan was right. Well someone was anyway.
Hearing Jago explaining all the trains and transport that the new station will service sounds very impressive, and maybe it is. It's just I can't quite envisage how it's going to make that many people's lives that much better. And could we stop calling it HS2? Government policy now seems to be that to reduce costs, we will reduce speed, giving us MS2 (Mediocre Speed 2). Previously, in order to cost justify HS2, the government would rachet up the frequency of the service. I wouldn't swear to it, but I'm sure I saw a figure of 18 departures an hour mentioned. But with lower speed trains and infrastructure, surely the frequency must be affected in downwards trajectory?
Anyway, I can exclusively reveal why this insanity has been forced upon the nation. Lord Adonis is the man who forced it through. If you Google him, then "Terror Management Theory (TMT)", and maybe the death salient, things may drop into place. It also explains why a handful of aging, unelected bureaucrats decided we'd have a Federal Europe.
Is there any such idea to extend the central line to denham or otherwise move the western terminus of the central line?
I recall hearing someone put forward the idea of putting that end in Uxbridge
It will not be OLD Oak Station, though, will it?
Where is the three platformed station at the end of the video, please? My familiarity with the Central Line in west London is limited.
North Acton.
@@JagoHazzard has that been featured before (other than the acton summaries ?)
1:40 No apology required. The whole HST2 saga is a mess, and rightly deserves to be pilloried. Not the concept, rather the interference that has stuffed it up.
Very short sighted to close the Great Central's Line, but in the 60's it was assumed that everyone would go everywhere by car using very cheap petrol on Sir Ernest Marples' motorways. Cheap petrol - that didn't last long.
Thanks Jago, very interesting. What is the single track showing in the final picture of this episode, please.🤔🤔
Old Oak Common's original station wasn't called Old Oak Common, and it technically wasn't a station...
Jago, we have talked about this. You need to take a deep breath, have a nice cup of tea and lie down for a bit.
HS2 rant, bah humbug etc... Well I did warn you.
this site is only a twenty minute walk from my place, kinda cool seeing it being built