This reminds me of making one of the BBC's first "High Definition" recordings, in the early days of digital TV (around 1990), when we needed four tape decks to record one video stream... We made it at Alexandra Palace, where John Logie Baird and EMI had made the very first public TV show "Variety" on 2 Nov 1936. We actually made the same show, with the same opening song "Television" or "Magic Rays of Light" (originally sung by Adele Dixon). We were very proud to be the first high definition programme makers, until we remembered the blue plaque on the outside wall: "THE WORLD'S FIRST HIGH DEFINITION TELEVISION SERVICE WAS INAUGURATED HERE BY THE BBC 2 November 1936". We'd been beaten to the punch by almost 50 years - what goes around, comes around. As with TV so it is with railways. Do you think they'll base the first London to Birmingham instant matter-transport system at Euston and Curzon Street too?
I imagine your high-definition trumped that used in 1936! I think the Baird system kicked off on the 2nd of November, so high definition then was two-hundred-odd lines. The next ‘first’ high definition broadcast presumably came when Marconi-EMI had their turn the day after on 405 lines.. (and of course, let’s not forget the subsequent arrival of 625..)😂
I hope there will be future videos from the Midlands with the industrial heritage around here. Also, Moor Street is worth a glance around as a relatively original GWR station, it has a lovely old feel.
@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne Oh takes one to no one, so you know so much about Birmingham do you, the knowledge you have of Birmingham could be written on a pea.
Surendra Apharya managed 1,749 characters on a grain of rice, so I reckon on a pea it is possible to write a book. Whereas your comment would indicate your brain is about the size of a pea. @@peterwilliamallen1063
@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne. I do home deliveries and you’re right, as I do my rounds in Birmingham I smell weed, I also smell it in most places including Solihull, Sutton Coldfield and even Little Aston. Maybe you should try it one day ?
I love that the impressive monumental entrance was originally all alone in an undeveloped area of Birmingham .... and is now all alone in a run down and being redeveloped area of Birmingham History do be like that sometimes - indeed
In the mid-1980s, I worked at the Curzon Street Station building. A Manpower Services Commission organisation and part of the Prince's Trust operated from there. I worked on the top floor - which was reached via a huge staircase in the central atrium. It was very grand - huge windows, everything very substantial. We used to drink at The Woodman, across the road, or at the Eagle and Tun, now demolished but featured on the cover of UB40s first album.
@@street-level To be fair, I think the demolition of the Doric Arch predates the introduction of the legislation that introduced listing by a number of years, if not decades.
When I was living in a house share in Birmingham a few years ago, one of my housemates was an archaeologist who was working on the old Victorian graveyards that had to be cleared on the site. It was a huge operation! It took them over a year, they had to dig up and catalogue every body and prepare them to be moved. They also had to often have a priest on site for blessings of some sort I guess. The bodies were all moved and buried elsewhere. We had a shared bathroom in that house share and the archaeologist would always leave the bathroom covered in Victorian grave dirt 😅
5:08 New Street station actually opened in 1852 as the terminus of the Stour Valley Line from Wolverhampton. At this point in time it was only a single platform with a temporary side-entrance. The rest of the platforms, along with the station buildings and main concourse, opened in 1854 when the services from London were diverted out of Curzon Street and into New Street, but the station itself had technically already been open for around 2 years by then. The full timeline of events goes like this: 1st July 1852: New Street station opens (one platform) as Stour Valley Line terminus 1st June 1854: LNWR Main Line from London Euston & Grand Junction Railway Line from Stafford diverted out of Curzon Street and into New Street. All platforms at New Street + station buildings & main concourse now open 1st July 1854: Midland Railway Lines from Gloucester & Derby diverted out of Curzon Street and into New Street. Curzon Street now closed A lot of internet sources (including Wikipedia) give 1st June 1854 as the opening date for Birmingham New Street, but that just isn't quite true.
Somewhere under the City University building on the other side of Curzon Street is the Railway pub which was a legendary local gig venue from the late 1960s all the way into the 00s.
Good video Jago. I lived in Birmingham for a time about 20 years ago, used to like taking a walk over to the old Curzon Street building for a little look.
One point of connectivity: Moor Street was/is supposed to become a more heavily used terminus again, with additional platforms restored and additional routes and services added or rerouted from the congested New Street. That would be an excellent option given it’s just across the road from the main entrance to the new Curzon Street
Absolutely right, they need to be easily connected so that people changing on to local lines can transfer easily. It's always been a worrying thing about the Curzon Street proposal, particularly the transfer to New Street.
@@iankemp1131 The Moor Street expansion proposals are partly to take pressure off of New Street, since New Street being so congested is also one of the reasons HS2 has been proposed in the first place. Some of the Chiltern services were supposed to be diverted there eventually I think, and a couple of WMR services that I don't think exist yet
@@andrewreynolds4949 Thanks. It always makes me wonder whether it's New Street station itself that's congested, or its approaches, particularly to the east. It seems as if a big opportunity was missed by not providing extra tracks to a known bottleneck when the Bull Ring was redeveloped.
@@iankemp1131 I think it's all of the above. Expanding the tunnel approaches would be ridiculously expensive and extremely disruptive to the city, and there's no room for additional platforms either. There's been a new signaling system installed recently, which hopefully helps a bit.
@@andrewreynolds4949 Fair enough. But the tunnel approaches could have been expanded far more cheaply when the Bull Ring was rebuilt. Isn't it something like 4 lines for 12 platforms?
I might be mistaken, but in the future someone will ask why wasn’t this piddling little railway not extended to Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow and even Euston so that it operate to its full potential on dedicated lines to reduce Inland commuter flights and to open up the freight sector rail traffic. As always, a joy to watch a quality researched video. Thank you Jago!
Do you not read anything, HS2 trains will go to Manchester via at present the WCML from Handsacre in Staffordshire, and at present the Mayors of the West Midlands and Greater Manchester are comming together o try and reserect the high speed link between Handsacre and Manchester, HS2 was never ever going to be built North of Crewe to Scotland
@@peterwilliamallen1063 no, I’m afraid don’t read much on the subject. I actually live in Germany and with a few exceptions, I have more or less given up on the British press. However, I enjoy this channel enormously, and rather get involved in any kind keyboard exchange, I would just ask you to pardon my ignorance. Thank you.
I was glad to see a west mids class 323/1 featured in this video. I've rode northern ones loads before and found the atmosphere of the west mids ones to feel lighter and less cramped for some reason.
When I worked in TV we had contracts from NKTV Japan who were experimenting with hi def. The camera we had was separate from the recording unit. I remember thw camera had the serial number 007.
Unlike the occupants of the graves, Curzon Street station is being resurrected. The failure to continue to parts northward shows the difference between the grave's occupants and modern politicians, the corpses have got spines.
Crurzon St carried on into the 1980s as a Red Star and general parcels depot, after which the tracks were removed and the main depot passed to Lynx, the privitsed company spun out of what had been BR Parcels and National Carriers who still used the Old Building as offices. A brief period of use by City Nightline parcels followed, the only happening of note being a guy who got himself posted in a crate downsouth to a depot in Leicester intending to rob it, being thwarted when he in his crate were instead held over a long weekend at Curzon st. Following the collapse of City Nightline in the late 1990s, operation passed to Parcel Force, who concentrated on the main former parcels building, ownership of the old Curzon St station building passing to local authority and being used for a number of art exhibitions before finally being boarded up for protection at the commencement of HS2 work in 2018.
00:29 those steps you can see briefly lead to an unmarked metal door on platform 1 at Birmingham Moor Street. You can see the GWR stone and chocolate paintwork of the station.
Oh my gosh! I can't believe Jago Hazzard came here to my city! How wonderful! 🎉 Great documentary, as always. Hope you can make some supplementary ones on the Curzon Street project as time goes on.
Hello Jago, yet another very interesting video. I could sense and totally agree with your frustration with the causes of ending the current HS2 line at this site. In my view HS2 and the additional HS3-4-5-x should have been directly linked to HS1 thus providing a continuous Railway link to the Continental railway network and as an alternative to flying. I may have commented before of enjoying the experience of seeing the delights of the Kent, French, Belgian and German countrysides on my travels to Wuppertal (die Schwebebahn ( a true monorail Railway ) is fantastic and unique) reminding of an old poster on a bus ( “See more of the countryside by (on the top deck) of a bus [Maidstone & District]) Ah Hamburg - St Pancras) to Abingdon in 2011. Yes, I would do it again if …. too old now sadly. (Precious and happy memories of 2011). It is the journey that matters most ..
Every once in a blue moon they used to open the building as part of a hidden spaces exhibition. I was very fortunate years ago to have a walk around inside. A neighbour of the station used to be (and I may get this wrong) The Queen's Hotel? - which was the birthplace of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers - which now resides on Birdcage Walk in London. When the hotel was demolished, the plaque was moved inside the station. I hope it's still visible one way when HS2 finally opens. I studied at the University across the road, lived very local and saw the immense change to the region in the last decade alone. Hopefully, it will all come to the original vision!
Thank you for this video, Jago. I first saw Curzon Street back in the seventies and was greatly impressed by its grandure... It really is wonderful that it is being incorporated into the new station.
Thanks Jago. Nice update on proceedings and the direction of travel (as it were). Perhaps a video on how the interchange with the other stations will work for passengers wanting to head further north would be appropriate. How will one get to Leeds for example? Just a thought.
Amusing that Latif woz here is graffitied on the hoarding around the entrance building and Latif is also the name on a local large business nearby. Busy lad is that Latif.
I've been in the building. I hope it's nicely revamped and put to good use. On the subject of station locations, I do wonder about HS lines losing something of their raison d'etre when the terminuses aren't interchanges with ongoing connections.
I've seen that building from passing trains so many times over the years and always wondered what it was - and why the surrounding area has been empty for so long... now it all makes sense!
Ah, an unexpected but very welcome surprise to see a video featuring my hometown, Mr Jago. Before a house move in 2015, I used to live near Lea Hall station on the Coventry-New Street line and would commute into Town by train, so I must have passed Curzon Street innumerable times. Back then, the site was basically waste ground, though I can remember seeing a trio of helicopters on display on the site once. Whilst you're here in Brum, it might be worth paying a visit to Moor Street station, a superbly restored ex-GWR station which serves as the terminus for Chiltern's loco-hauled services, or perhaps a visit to ThinkTank, where one of the three preserved ex-LMS Coronation Pacifics is on display. Anyway, Curzon Street is a fine building. It reminds me of a posh townhouse. Philip Hardwicke certainly had architectural taste!
Ah, Lea Hall. The station where back in the early 90s some of the locals decided that they disliked the person in the ticket office so they barricaded the only exit from the office then proceeded to try to burn the place down. Fortunately we had properly resourced emergency services back then so the staffer was rescued unharmed. I've never been to ThinkTank. I'm told it's not a patch on the old Museum of Science & Industry which it replaced and which I used to love visiting as a child.
New Street was redeveloped a couple of years ago. However, there is only one access at each end, since New St is underground, so there are constant delays at each end, and there is still a shortage of platform space--platforms double up as A and B. Birmingham will have the same schemozzle as London: three stations next to each other, totally unconnected.
Two access each end of New Street..... And the stations in Birmingham will be a dam sight closer than they are in London......a matter of a few hundred yards in fact
I really hope they've rethought the footbridge over to Moor Street since the proposals I saw some time ago. Moor Street had a lot of money spent on restoring it to something close to its GWR glory and its one of the nicest city centre mainline stations as a result, yet the HS2 link appeared to be a modern concrete lump bolted on from one side and rather spoiling the whole effect.
Last time I was in Birmingham, I walked around trying to make sense of the various stations like New Street, Snow Hill, Moor Street, etc. Then I saw Curzon Street and wondered if I'd missed something. The big HS2 billboards in the area gave the game away.
Ironic the original line was built from the North & got blocked - mirroring HS2 built from the South. Hope HS2 gets to Crewe. Interesting HS2 Curzon St has 7 platforms - prob partly why HS2 Euston has been slashed to 6. Wonder if the TBMs to Euston could carry on to King's Cross.
So are the New HS2 Curzon Street, Moor Street and New Street going to be linked-up as a hub? They are not an enormous distance apart and people will need to move between them. A travelator perhaps, or will HS2 passengers have to walk to New Street, or maybe catch a train from Moor street to New Street?
Only Birmingham Curzon Street Station and Birmingham Moor Street Station are being joined together as a super rail hub, New Street Station is too far awy to be joine to these two stations
There is also the strange "diversion" of a few years ago. The lease for the Royal College of Organists' building in Kensington Gore, next to the Royal Albert Hall, came up for renewal. It was too expensive and alternatives were sought. A move out of London was the answer, to the Birmingham Curzon Street Station building. Plans were in hand for a "fit for purpose" refurbishment of the building when the bottom fell out of the financial market and these plans collapsed. The Royal College of Organists became an online, cyber institution - using friendly cathedrals, colleges and schools for their in-person events and requirements. Thus it continues to this day.
All over Europe, big city terminus stations are being turned into through stations at great expense. Only in Britain would a new big city terminus be built in the city in the middle of the country.
Wow! Jago going outside London! Mind you, it's probably only because HS2 invited him. Although, I'm looking forward to his visit to Sheffield to look at the Supertram, just like he did Croydon, Edinburgh and somewhere else!
@@highpath4776 It's not far off already; it's only 90 minutes or so on a West Coast train to Euston and even in the 1990s there was a healthy commuting market from Brum to London, so I assume that's only increased as London property prices have become ever more horrendous.
@@atraindriver I half wish I had worked out it was so close when I worked in Birmingham. But I guess it would have still been a three hour journey from my present bit of south london then out to the western fringe of Birmingham. I went lunchtimes into the City (actually fiveways it was more interesting) from edgebaston.
"It's not a 19th-century terminus without a _little_ desecration." True, though to be fair, I reckon it's pretty much impossible to build anything in the urban areas of Great Britain without digging up _something_ that was better left alone.
As a Brummie I've always been interested in zCurzon St. As a kid we would come into town on the train and would pass it. But Jago I've always been fascinated by a large viaduct on the other side of the tracks coming into New Street. I have been told that it was built to connect to Curzon St. but was never used. Maybe worth a look Jago....
Score Grade 1!!! I've got a curzon in Birmingham. The HS2s will make life so much easier, I'd even be happy with those raggedy 3rd class crates just because of the route's convenience😂😂😂😂😂
HS2 aside, we see stations sporting columns with Doric capitals and Ionic capitals. There really ought to be some Corinthian columns somewhere in all this.
That'd be Huddersfield then. I guess from a failed HS2 point of view the failure to connect the capital capital by capital style wise to the rest of the country is just another angle from which this sucks.
Thank goodness they didn't bulldoze Curzon Street like they did with Euston especially the Great Hall and the Arch. The "reversing" city terminal station on a through line is still pretty common in many places In Europe, such as Frankfurt, Milan and Rome. Antwerp too until they built new high speed through platforms directly underneath it.
Great history lesson. Now all we need to know is why oh why is HS2 taking so B long to build! The Victorians seemed to be able to do things PDQ by comparison - and we have all these new fangled machines at our disposal.
The clue is in Jago's comment about any 19th century terminus having a little descration. We do tend to care rather more about a lot of matters not considered by the victorians.
The UK not only cut and cut and cut the HS2 plans til it goes from the outskirts of London to a permanent terminal station in Birmingham. This is very much in the vein of the quality and level of strategic thinking for much of the history of Rail in the UK. By the gods, people! Just build a proper line going all the way from central London to central Glasgow, via through-running stations in central Birmingham and central Manchester (transfers available to HS3 at Manchester, both HS2 & HS3 running at least every 15 minutes on weekdays).
Considering that I got my early Covid jabs in central Birmingham in 2021 near the Curzon Street HS2 site and site clearance & prep work had already been underway for some months by then, you do realise why HS2 is costing so much.
From memory, a brand new students' hall of residence was in the way of the route of the new approach formation - what happened in the end about that? \m/
There is still a northen portion but it ends at handsacre junction 20 miles north of Birmingham and dumps trains onto the wcml, which wont help capacity. So you are technically wrong but practically right if that makes sense.
How about a companion piece on Brunel's viaduct to nowhere. Before the LNWR was finalised, the Grand Junction was also considering creating a route to London by linking up with the GWR instead of the London & Birmingham. To this end the GWR had Brunel design a line from Oxford terminating in a viaduct into Curzon Street. This caused the London & Birmingham to stop playing hard ball and agree to the LNWR merge on terms more favourable to the Grand Junction; and left Birmingham with a giant viaduct that has never been more than a very fancy siding.
The Liverpool & Manchester, Manchester & Birmingham, the London &Birmingham - all of them - were built with their own money. HS2 is being built with mine - and by God they've spent it like a drunken sailor.
We all know the Northern section will get built eventually and just like with all these things they're only seen as disasters during construction when it's completed everyone will think it's amazing.
They said that about the shinkansen when it was deep in all kinds of trouble during it's construction. It was eventually completed and extended all throughout Japan. The issues facing HS2 today are purely political and it will eventually be extended to it's full planned route and possibly even more in the distant future. It just makes too much sense to do so. Once people see how great high speed rail is when they travel from Lodnon to Birmingham on the route, they'll be clamoring for it to be extended to Manchester and Leeds even more so than they do today. So you can say it will be remembered as a "disaster" but you will one day be riding it completely forgetting about most of the "issues" it's facing right now, people barely remember all the isssues that crossrail faced now that it's finished and has changed transport throughout London.
Er, no. There’s zero evidence that the cancelled legs will ever get built. Given how short term just about everything is now it’s far more likely the land bought for these routes will be sold off at a loss to try to balance the books. Phase 2 was cancelled because the cost escalated past all estimates to a cost that became unviable. It’s not like building a railway will become cheaper in 20 or 30 years, will it? Of course, it might get built in 100 years’ time but I’m not sure anyone currently alive really cares. Crossrail was massively late, disgustingly over budget and based on its lacklustre performance and issues around shared track near Paddington, I wouldn’t judge it as a success, more an inadequate sticking plaster.
@@caliburn50a No it wasn't. It was "cancelled" (delayed a few years) due to a mix of things. 1) UK media hates railways 2) Too many things were bundled into HS2 like rebuilding Euston which made it look more expensive than it was 3) It was very mismarketed, many people still think it's about cutting journey times not extra capacity for the WCML.
It is not well known, but for a short time after being built, New Street Station was called Grand Central Station. This was before the more famous one in NYC. New Street Station has always been a silly name. The station has never had direct access to New Street. At one time, it was a more accurate Navigation Street Station.
Always found it sad that old Curson Station stood alone when arriving at New Street, yet happy it somehow survived the era that demolished old Euston... What goes 'round, comes 'round like they used to say in the '70s... 1:50 where does the Columbine call home these days...?
Phew. I thought you were going to reveal to all that Curzon Street used to be where MI5 was based, but luckily it's the Birmingham one you are talking about.
With Curzon Street to be rebuilt because of HS2. How many platforms will there be. 12? 15? 18? Or 20 platforms in total at Curzon Street and to extend HS2 to Manchester and Leeds.
One clarification. The line will end at Handsacre junction. Saying that it will end at Curzon street is ever so slightly misleading but yes it needs to be extended to Crewe/Golborne/Manchester and the East Midlands/Sheffield/Leeds
After Curzon, I'd expect the next stop to be Jadzia, followed by Ezri.
The Niners have invaded!
Dax never going to happen!
Very good.
Plain, simple... :)
Damn...I wanted to bring a Jaxia Joke
I used to regularly travel to Birmingham by train so i would always notice the Curzon Street building standing alone in its grandeur
This reminds me of making one of the BBC's first "High Definition" recordings, in the early days of digital TV (around 1990), when we needed four tape decks to record one video stream... We made it at Alexandra Palace, where John Logie Baird and EMI had made the very first public TV show "Variety" on 2 Nov 1936. We actually made the same show, with the same opening song "Television" or "Magic Rays of Light" (originally sung by Adele Dixon). We were very proud to be the first high definition programme makers, until we remembered the blue plaque on the outside wall: "THE WORLD'S FIRST HIGH DEFINITION TELEVISION SERVICE WAS INAUGURATED HERE BY THE BBC 2 November 1936". We'd been beaten to the punch by almost 50 years - what goes around, comes around. As with TV so it is with railways. Do you think they'll base the first London to Birmingham instant matter-transport system at Euston and Curzon Street too?
I imagine your high-definition trumped that used in 1936! I think the Baird system kicked off on the 2nd of November, so high definition then was two-hundred-odd lines. The next ‘first’ high definition broadcast presumably came when Marconi-EMI had their turn the day after on 405 lines.. (and of course, let’s not forget the subsequent arrival of 625..)😂
Perhaps. But also, due to massive cost and schedule overrun it will end up cut back to Euston to Milton Keynes.
I hope there will be future videos from the Midlands with the industrial heritage around here. Also, Moor Street is worth a glance around as a relatively original GWR station, it has a lovely old feel.
I think Moor Street is my favourite Birmingham station, it’s very charming!
Heartily concur.
Let's hope they don't wreck the feel of Moor Street with the HS2 link from Curzon Street.
And further up North, I wouldn't mind some history behind the situation in Bradford, for instance, with its 2 stations, or Newcastle's Metro.
Agreed. I LOVE Moor Street station. It's SOOO much nicer than the monstrosity that's Snow Hill.
Welcome to Brum, Mr Hazzard. Hope you enjoyed your visit. 🐂
Probably got gassed by all the weed the locals smoke with impunity....
@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne Oh takes one to no one, so you know so much about Birmingham do you, the knowledge you have of Birmingham could be written on a pea.
Surendra Apharya managed 1,749 characters on a grain of rice, so I reckon on a pea it is possible to write a book. Whereas your comment would indicate your brain is about the size of a pea. @@peterwilliamallen1063
@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne. I do home deliveries and you’re right, as I do my rounds in Birmingham I smell weed, I also smell it in most places including Solihull, Sutton Coldfield and even Little Aston. Maybe you should try it one day ?
Or maybe I shouldn't.....@@mattsandilands6380
I love that the impressive monumental entrance was originally all alone in an undeveloped area of Birmingham .... and is now all alone in a run down and being redeveloped area of Birmingham
History do be like that sometimes - indeed
How do you make this out, the only bit next to Moor Street Station that is under develpoement is the new HS2 Curzon Street Station
In the mid-1980s, I worked at the Curzon Street Station building. A Manpower Services Commission organisation and part of the Prince's Trust operated from there. I worked on the top floor - which was reached via a huge staircase in the central atrium. It was very grand - huge windows, everything very substantial. We used to drink at The Woodman, across the road, or at the Eagle and Tun, now demolished but featured on the cover of UB40s first album.
I don’t know why, but I find the idea of travel in an open top wagon from Birmingham to London quite appealing - in summer.
Curzon Street Station in the same league as Buckingham Palace! I think the neighbours heard me roar with laughter at that one. Thanks.
It did not do the Doric Arch any good.
@@street-level To be fair, I think the demolition of the Doric Arch predates the introduction of the legislation that introduced listing by a number of years, if not decades.
well, its that arch being destroyed and then the threat to St Pancras which kickstarted the building heritage movement, as far as i kno@@mastertrams
When I was living in a house share in Birmingham a few years ago, one of my housemates was an archaeologist who was working on the old Victorian graveyards that had to be cleared on the site. It was a huge operation! It took them over a year, they had to dig up and catalogue every body and prepare them to be moved. They also had to often have a priest on site for blessings of some sort I guess. The bodies were all moved and buried elsewhere.
We had a shared bathroom in that house share and the archaeologist would always leave the bathroom covered in Victorian grave dirt 😅
0:56 You’re not just a RUclipsr. You’re Jago the Train Nerd Journalist.
5:08 New Street station actually opened in 1852 as the terminus of the Stour Valley Line from Wolverhampton. At this point in time it was only a single platform with a temporary side-entrance. The rest of the platforms, along with the station buildings and main concourse, opened in 1854 when the services from London were diverted out of Curzon Street and into New Street, but the station itself had technically already been open for around 2 years by then. The full timeline of events goes like this:
1st July 1852: New Street station opens (one platform) as Stour Valley Line terminus
1st June 1854: LNWR Main Line from London Euston & Grand Junction Railway Line from Stafford diverted out of Curzon Street and into New Street. All platforms at New Street + station buildings & main concourse now open
1st July 1854: Midland Railway Lines from Gloucester & Derby diverted out of Curzon Street and into New Street. Curzon Street now closed
A lot of internet sources (including Wikipedia) give 1st June 1854 as the opening date for Birmingham New Street, but that just isn't quite true.
I'm glad that Jago was invited from Curzon Street at the former site of Curzon Street. A well deserved recognition for this wonderful channel.
Somewhere under the City University building on the other side of Curzon Street is the Railway pub which was a legendary local gig venue from the late 1960s all the way into the 00s.
Used to be excellent......
.......the Moby Duck is still open however.
Huh. History really does repeat itself. I am glad that grand entrance building is to remain a part of the station.
Great video!
Great stuff, jago - especially pleased to find out more of the history of the original station
Good video Jago. I lived in Birmingham for a time about 20 years ago, used to like taking a walk over to the old Curzon Street building for a little look.
I love all your videos, but as a Brummie, especially as one with Duddeston as my local station, this was particularly fascinating. Thank you.
One point of connectivity: Moor Street was/is supposed to become a more heavily used terminus again, with additional platforms restored and additional routes and services added or rerouted from the congested New Street. That would be an excellent option given it’s just across the road from the main entrance to the new Curzon Street
Absolutely right, they need to be easily connected so that people changing on to local lines can transfer easily. It's always been a worrying thing about the Curzon Street proposal, particularly the transfer to New Street.
@@iankemp1131 The Moor Street expansion proposals are partly to take pressure off of New Street, since New Street being so congested is also one of the reasons HS2 has been proposed in the first place. Some of the Chiltern services were supposed to be diverted there eventually I think, and a couple of WMR services that I don't think exist yet
@@andrewreynolds4949 Thanks. It always makes me wonder whether it's New Street station itself that's congested, or its approaches, particularly to the east. It seems as if a big opportunity was missed by not providing extra tracks to a known bottleneck when the Bull Ring was redeveloped.
@@iankemp1131 I think it's all of the above. Expanding the tunnel approaches would be ridiculously expensive and extremely disruptive to the city, and there's no room for additional platforms either. There's been a new signaling system installed recently, which hopefully helps a bit.
@@andrewreynolds4949 Fair enough. But the tunnel approaches could have been expanded far more cheaply when the Bull Ring was rebuilt. Isn't it something like 4 lines for 12 platforms?
I might be mistaken, but in the future someone will ask why wasn’t this piddling little railway not extended to Manchester, Leeds, Glasgow and even Euston so that it operate to its full potential on dedicated lines to reduce Inland commuter flights and to open up the freight sector rail traffic. As always, a joy to watch a quality researched video. Thank you Jago!
Methinks that question will asked and answered sooner rather than later.
Do you not read anything, HS2 trains will go to Manchester via at present the WCML from Handsacre in Staffordshire, and at present the Mayors of the West Midlands and Greater Manchester are comming together o try and reserect the high speed link between Handsacre and Manchester, HS2 was never ever going to be built North of Crewe to Scotland
@@peterwilliamallen1063 no, I’m afraid don’t read much on the subject. I actually live in Germany and with a few exceptions, I have more or less given up on the British press. However, I enjoy this channel enormously, and rather get involved in any kind keyboard exchange, I would just ask you to pardon my ignorance. Thank you.
@@flippop101 So if you live in Germany and do not read anything about HS2, then why are you making such stupid rubbish quotes about HS2
@@peterwilliamallen1063 I wasn’t aware that I had misquoted anyone. In keeping with the intentions of those designing HS2, my comment is factual.
I was glad to see a west mids class 323/1 featured in this video. I've rode northern ones loads before and found the atmosphere of the west mids ones to feel lighter and less cramped for some reason.
When I worked in TV we had contracts from NKTV Japan who were experimenting with hi def. The camera we had was separate from the recording unit. I remember thw camera had the serial number 007.
There is also a Curzon Street in Mayfair, but doubt that was the original tube station name for Bond Street 😊
Unlike the occupants of the graves, Curzon Street station is being resurrected.
The failure to continue to parts northward shows the difference between the grave's occupants and modern politicians, the corpses have got spines.
Crurzon St carried on into the 1980s as a Red Star and general parcels depot, after which the tracks were removed and the main depot passed to Lynx, the privitsed company spun out of what had been BR Parcels and National Carriers who still used the Old Building as offices.
A brief period of use by City Nightline parcels followed, the only happening of note being a guy who got himself posted in a crate downsouth to a depot in Leicester intending to rob it, being thwarted when he in his crate were instead held over a long weekend at Curzon st.
Following the collapse of City Nightline in the late 1990s, operation passed to Parcel Force, who concentrated on the main former parcels building, ownership of the old Curzon St station building passing to local authority and being used for a number of art exhibitions before finally being boarded up for protection at the commencement of HS2 work in 2018.
00:29 those steps you can see briefly lead to an unmarked metal door on platform 1 at Birmingham Moor Street. You can see the GWR stone and chocolate paintwork of the station.
Oh my gosh! I can't believe Jago Hazzard came here to my city! How wonderful! 🎉
Great documentary, as always. Hope you can make some supplementary ones on the Curzon Street project as time goes on.
Hello Jago, yet another very interesting video. I could sense and totally agree with your frustration with the causes of ending the current HS2 line at this site. In my view HS2 and the additional HS3-4-5-x should have been directly linked to HS1 thus providing a continuous Railway link to the Continental railway network and as an alternative to flying. I may have commented before of enjoying the experience of seeing the delights of the Kent, French, Belgian and German countrysides on my travels to Wuppertal (die Schwebebahn ( a true monorail Railway )
is fantastic and unique) reminding of an old poster on a bus ( “See more of the countryside by (on the top deck) of a bus [Maidstone & District]) Ah Hamburg - St Pancras) to Abingdon in 2011.
Yes, I would do it again if …. too old now sadly. (Precious and happy memories of 2011). It is the journey that matters most ..
Every once in a blue moon they used to open the building as part of a hidden spaces exhibition. I was very fortunate years ago to have a walk around inside. A neighbour of the station used to be (and I may get this wrong) The Queen's Hotel? - which was the birthplace of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers - which now resides on Birdcage Walk in London. When the hotel was demolished, the plaque was moved inside the station. I hope it's still visible one way when HS2 finally opens. I studied at the University across the road, lived very local and saw the immense change to the region in the last decade alone. Hopefully, it will all come to the original vision!
Thank you for this video, Jago. I first saw Curzon Street back in the seventies and was greatly impressed by its grandure... It really is wonderful that it is being incorporated into the new station.
Good to see the rail world takes you seriously. Love your videos and I’ve learnt a lot!
Thanks Jago. Nice update on proceedings and the direction of travel (as it were). Perhaps a video on how the interchange with the other stations will work for passengers wanting to head further north would be appropriate. How will one get to Leeds for example? Just a thought.
Nice to see some of my home city again ❤
Amusing that Latif woz here is graffitied on the hoarding around the entrance building and Latif is also the name on a local large business nearby. Busy lad is that Latif.
At least the impressive List 1 building at Curzon Street is still standing. I remember Euston's Doric Arch being demolished - Scandalous.
Impressive? It's a box with some over-engineered columns to hold up a rain overhang.
ive been watching a lot of stuff about HS2 and Birmingham the last couple of days so its nice to see a vid from you too! :)
I've been in the building. I hope it's nicely revamped and put to good use.
On the subject of station locations, I do wonder about HS lines losing something of their raison d'etre when the terminuses aren't interchanges with ongoing connections.
Evening Jago! Hope all is good with the new home!
I think it's good you've got them to feed you historical material!
I've seen that building from passing trains so many times over the years and always wondered what it was - and why the surrounding area has been empty for so long... now it all makes sense!
Thank you for explaining what is going on here as I’ve sat looking out the window crawling along in a Cross Country Voyager from Leeds…
Hearing a completely unexpected mention of the mighty Duddeston in a Jago video makes me proud
Doric Propylaeum. Nice One. I learned something new today. Thanks Buddy. Congrats on getting the Invite to the HS2.
Funny seeing this now as I was just in Birmingham not far from the station myself today
1:38 HULL in bold as it was a major city back then, Kings Lynn just... Lynn, Great Grimsby? How old is this map‽ lol
Ah, an unexpected but very welcome surprise to see a video featuring my hometown, Mr Jago. Before a house move in 2015, I used to live near Lea Hall station on the Coventry-New Street line and would commute into Town by train, so I must have passed Curzon Street innumerable times. Back then, the site was basically waste ground, though I can remember seeing a trio of helicopters on display on the site once. Whilst you're here in Brum, it might be worth paying a visit to Moor Street station, a superbly restored ex-GWR station which serves as the terminus for Chiltern's loco-hauled services, or perhaps a visit to ThinkTank, where one of the three preserved ex-LMS Coronation Pacifics is on display. Anyway, Curzon Street is a fine building. It reminds me of a posh townhouse. Philip Hardwicke certainly had architectural taste!
Ah, Lea Hall. The station where back in the early 90s some of the locals decided that they disliked the person in the ticket office so they barricaded the only exit from the office then proceeded to try to burn the place down. Fortunately we had properly resourced emergency services back then so the staffer was rescued unharmed.
I've never been to ThinkTank. I'm told it's not a patch on the old Museum of Science & Industry which it replaced and which I used to love visiting as a child.
New Street was redeveloped a couple of years ago. However, there is only one access at each end, since New St is underground, so there are constant delays at each end, and there is still a shortage of platform space--platforms double up as A and B. Birmingham will have the same schemozzle as London: three stations next to each other, totally unconnected.
Two access each end of New Street.....
And the stations in Birmingham will be a dam sight closer than they are in London......a matter of a few hundred yards in fact
I'm surprised I didn't notice you filming at any point, I live directly across from the hs2 site in Birmingham lol
Would you know Jago if you saw him, though?
@@eattherich9215 most likely, he was in Jay Foreman's series about the development of the tube map
@@thekathal: we didn't see his face, so you would have to recognise the shape.😂
I really hope they've rethought the footbridge over to Moor Street since the proposals I saw some time ago. Moor Street had a lot of money spent on restoring it to something close to its GWR glory and its one of the nicest city centre mainline stations as a result, yet the HS2 link appeared to be a modern concrete lump bolted on from one side and rather spoiling the whole effect.
Last time I was in Birmingham, I walked around trying to make sense of the various stations like New Street, Snow Hill, Moor Street, etc. Then I saw Curzon Street and wondered if I'd missed something. The big HS2 billboards in the area gave the game away.
Five hours to Brum in 1838. It can still take that long these days. We haven't advanced as much as we think.
Ironic the original line was built from the North & got blocked - mirroring HS2 built from the South. Hope HS2 gets to Crewe.
Interesting HS2 Curzon St has 7 platforms - prob partly why HS2 Euston has been slashed to 6. Wonder if the TBMs to Euston could carry on to King's Cross.
Brilliant film thank you 😊
What about Curzon Street in London's West End ( formerly known as Mayfair Row ). Is there a connection ?
No this Curzon Street Station is in Birmingham
@@peterwilliamallen1063 yeah, but I was prodding Jago to investigate (Lord Curzon?) connection to London placenames
"You are the Curzon Street to my Curzon Street."
So are the New HS2 Curzon Street, Moor Street and New Street going to be linked-up as a hub? They are not an enormous distance apart and people will need to move between them. A travelator perhaps, or will HS2 passengers have to walk to New Street, or maybe catch a train from Moor street to New Street?
Only Birmingham Curzon Street Station and Birmingham Moor Street Station are being joined together as a super rail hub, New Street Station is too far awy to be joine to these two stations
I had to rewatch that introduction about 3 times to make sure I wasn't having a stroke haha. Great video as always Jago
There is also the strange "diversion" of a few years ago. The lease for the Royal College of Organists' building in Kensington Gore, next to the Royal Albert Hall, came up for renewal. It was too expensive and alternatives were sought. A move out of London was the answer, to the Birmingham Curzon Street Station building. Plans were in hand for a "fit for purpose" refurbishment of the building when the bottom fell out of the financial market and these plans collapsed. The Royal College of Organists became an online, cyber institution - using friendly cathedrals, colleges and schools for their in-person events and requirements. Thus it continues to this day.
Streets needed this one
All over Europe, big city terminus stations are being turned into through stations at great expense. Only in Britain would a new big city terminus be built in the city in the middle of the country.
Nice your in my neck of the woods Mr Hazzard
Wow! Jago going outside London! Mind you, it's probably only because HS2 invited him. Although, I'm looking forward to his visit to Sheffield to look at the Supertram, just like he did Croydon, Edinburgh and somewhere else!
well if HS2 is a success Birmingham will be a london surburb about as quick to get to as Dagenham is on a District Line trundel
@@highpath4776 It's not far off already; it's only 90 minutes or so on a West Coast train to Euston and even in the 1990s there was a healthy commuting market from Brum to London, so I assume that's only increased as London property prices have become ever more horrendous.
@@atraindriver I half wish I had worked out it was so close when I worked in Birmingham. But I guess it would have still been a three hour journey from my present bit of south london then out to the western fringe of Birmingham. I went lunchtimes into the City (actually fiveways it was more interesting) from edgebaston.
Great vid Jago. History doth repeat itself sometimes
Brilliant video sir!
"It's not a 19th-century terminus without a _little_ desecration." True, though to be fair, I reckon it's pretty much impossible to build anything in the urban areas of Great Britain without digging up _something_ that was better left alone.
As a Brummie I've always been interested in zCurzon St. As a kid we would come into town on the train and would pass it. But Jago I've always been fascinated by a large viaduct on the other side of the tracks coming into New Street. I have been told that it was built to connect to Curzon St. but was never used. Maybe worth a look Jago....
Score Grade 1!!! I've got a curzon in Birmingham. The HS2s will make life so much easier, I'd even be happy with those raggedy 3rd class crates just because of the route's convenience😂😂😂😂😂
HS2 aside, we see stations sporting columns with Doric capitals and Ionic capitals. There really ought to be some Corinthian columns somewhere in all this.
That'd be Huddersfield then. I guess from a failed HS2 point of view the failure to connect the capital capital by capital style wise to the rest of the country is just another angle from which this sucks.
Thank goodness they didn't bulldoze Curzon Street like they did with Euston especially the Great Hall and the Arch. The "reversing" city terminal station on a through line is still pretty common in many places In Europe, such as Frankfurt, Milan and Rome. Antwerp too until they built new high speed through platforms directly underneath it.
What’s the plans with the roundhouse foundations? Is it getting built on or is there a plan in place for some kind of preservation?
Great history lesson. Now all we need to know is why oh why is HS2 taking so B long to build! The Victorians seemed to be able to do things PDQ by comparison - and we have all these new fangled machines at our disposal.
The clue is in Jago's comment about any 19th century terminus having a little descration. We do tend to care rather more about a lot of matters not considered by the victorians.
A warm welcome to Birmingham Jago
Awesome video! 😎
New Street, Curzon Street... made me think of New Crobuzon. Looking forward to Jago's video on Perdido Street Station!
I love those books. I’d specifically like to talk about Iron Council.
Fictitious Stations and Fictitious Railroads would be brilliant topics! @@JagoHazzard
Despite the HS2 situation being a general sh*tshow, the new Curzon Street station looks stunning. I'm really looking forward to seeing it open.
The UK not only cut and cut and cut the HS2 plans til it goes from the outskirts of London to a permanent terminal station in Birmingham.
This is very much in the vein of the quality and level of strategic thinking for much of the history of Rail in the UK.
By the gods, people! Just build a proper line going all the way from central London to central Glasgow, via through-running stations in central Birmingham and central Manchester (transfers available to HS3 at Manchester, both HS2 & HS3 running at least every 15 minutes on weekdays).
Considering that I got my early Covid jabs in central Birmingham in 2021 near the Curzon Street HS2 site and site clearance & prep work had already been underway for some months by then, you do realise why HS2 is costing so much.
Jago has ventured North of London.
Did he get a Nosebleed?
😀😀😀😀
He's done videos from Scotland before now...
No, he doesn't work for the government: their heads explode if they have to leave London.
And we let him go afterwards! @@andrewgwilliam4831
You didn't say: You are the something to my something or other. 😮
I always like that bit
Yes he did at 8:13
0:59 OK, that's Geoff, so what are you doing there?
😝
From memory, a brand new students' hall of residence was in the way of the route of the new approach formation - what happened in the end about that? \m/
7:44 The Northeners can’t be shortchanged like this all the time.
Ah... So that's what that old building is I can see from the choo-choo. I always wondered but never enough to look it up.
another great video
There is still a northen portion but it ends at handsacre junction 20 miles north of Birmingham and dumps trains onto the wcml, which wont help capacity. So you are technically wrong but practically right if that makes sense.
Now that’s an impressive station entrance
How about a companion piece on Brunel's viaduct to nowhere.
Before the LNWR was finalised, the Grand Junction was also considering creating a route to London by linking up with the GWR instead of the London & Birmingham. To this end the GWR had Brunel design a line from Oxford terminating in a viaduct into Curzon Street. This caused the London & Birmingham to stop playing hard ball and agree to the LNWR merge on terms more favourable to the Grand Junction; and left Birmingham with a giant viaduct that has never been more than a very fancy siding.
The Liverpool & Manchester, Manchester & Birmingham, the London &Birmingham - all of them - were built with their own money. HS2 is being built with mine - and by God they've spent it like a drunken sailor.
Lets hope that sanity prevails, and the northern legs get re-instated..until then, thanks for the video, Jago!
This is a southern thing I'm afraid. I'm a northerner so find this laughable
HS 1 1/2. It will be remembered as a disaster!
We all know the Northern section will get built eventually and just like with all these things they're only seen as disasters during construction when it's completed everyone will think it's amazing.
They said that about the shinkansen when it was deep in all kinds of trouble during it's construction. It was eventually completed and extended all throughout Japan. The issues facing HS2 today are purely political and it will eventually be extended to it's full planned route and possibly even more in the distant future. It just makes too much sense to do so. Once people see how great high speed rail is when they travel from Lodnon to Birmingham on the route, they'll be clamoring for it to be extended to Manchester and Leeds even more so than they do today.
So you can say it will be remembered as a "disaster" but you will one day be riding it completely forgetting about most of the "issues" it's facing right now, people barely remember all the isssues that crossrail faced now that it's finished and has changed transport throughout London.
Er, no. There’s zero evidence that the cancelled legs will ever get built. Given how short term just about everything is now it’s far more likely the land bought for these routes will be sold off at a loss to try to balance the books. Phase 2 was cancelled because the cost escalated past all estimates to a cost that became unviable. It’s not like building a railway will become cheaper in 20 or 30 years, will it? Of course, it might get built in 100 years’ time but I’m not sure anyone currently alive really cares. Crossrail was massively late, disgustingly over budget and based on its lacklustre performance and issues around shared track near Paddington, I wouldn’t judge it as a success, more an inadequate sticking plaster.
@@JKK_85 the northern section was always going to be canciled
@@caliburn50a No it wasn't. It was "cancelled" (delayed a few years) due to a mix of things. 1) UK media hates railways 2) Too many things were bundled into HS2 like rebuilding Euston which made it look more expensive than it was 3) It was very mismarketed, many people still think it's about cutting journey times not extra capacity for the WCML.
It is not well known, but for a short time after being built, New Street Station was called Grand Central Station. This was before the more famous one in NYC.
New Street Station has always been a silly name. The station has never had direct access to New Street. At one time, it was a more accurate Navigation Street Station.
But did HS2 offer you a chocolate eclair? If not, its just the sort of unconnected management that has bedevilled the whole project.
Does anyone know why Moor Street and Snow Hill weren’t considered as sites for the HS2 station?
Because there is no room to extend these stations, simples
You are my new street to Cadburys, and Bournville seems lost in mist of time
There are some grade one listed pig sty's (at least 1) Part of a silk mill and village from the industrial revolution.
I'm old enough to remember when HS2 London-Birmingham was due to open in 2026.
Always found it sad that old Curson Station stood alone when arriving at New Street, yet happy it somehow survived the era that demolished old Euston... What goes 'round, comes 'round like they used to say in the '70s...
1:50 where does the Columbine call home these days...?
Phew. I thought you were going to reveal to all that Curzon Street used to be where MI5 was based, but luckily it's the Birmingham one you are talking about.
With Curzon Street to be rebuilt because of HS2. How many platforms will there be. 12? 15? 18? Or 20 platforms in total at Curzon Street and to extend HS2 to Manchester and Leeds.
One clarification. The line will end at Handsacre junction. Saying that it will end at Curzon street is ever so slightly misleading but yes it needs to be extended to Crewe/Golborne/Manchester and the East Midlands/Sheffield/Leeds