Just more Emma comments -- characters can use their leadership when dazed. It's in the FAQ. Diamond form is a very strong situational tactical option for positioning Emma. The double bump for 1 power is very efficient. Interrupting an attack, the terrain throw, and Shatter are all situational uses. Glad you guys love Emma, cheers for the video.
I think you're underestimating Voodoo and Nick Fury. Voodoo has really good mystic attacks, one of the best steals in the game, is usually 4/4/6 and generates a ridiculous amount of power with sap power and skulls. Also Fury is splashed competitively as he helps massively with extracts allowing you to grab 2 extracts in your turn and just pass it back when the grunts die, plus gives you Eye.
Think you guys are sleeping on Lady Sif. No way Carol 1 gives more value than her. She is very exceptional and imo provides more value than Bill on most crises since the Brothers in Arms nerf. Turn 1 charge into an any direction push into your team is disgustingly good, it's her best tool. Damage reduction always is valuable, and Master Swordswoman is a good reroll mechanic. Sure Valkyrie is a threat less, but she's a pure glass cannon and has nowhere near as much mobility as Sif. Again, I value her over Bill most of the time unless I'm going to run into a fair amount of Incinerate. Think she's very solid and I think she's splash worthy if your affiliation needs a tanky/mobile 4 threat. Fantastic under Loki and pretty sick under Red Skull 3 too.
For the discussion about Frankenstein's monster there's a precedent with Hank Pym and Ultron; being that Ultron's name isn't Ultron Pym it would follow that Adam is just Adam
So Gwenom; My recollection of her back story is that she is (shocker) from an alternate dimension. She acquires the venom symbiote in order to fight the carnage symbiote who has taken Mary Jane as a host and has overpowered her, has total control over her mind/body, and gone on a murderous rampage. The bass guitar/axe is Mary Jane's; she uses it in the comic I saw to, well, murder people and fight Gwenom.
Hello again! Thank you for producing this series. It's very interesting, and I enjoy putting it on while I paint models. Much appreciated. As I've listened, a thought has struck me that I thought I'd share. Please understand, this is not criticism. This is your channel, and you of course have every right to present it as your wish. This is just a thing to consider. I've noted that a number of your comments about characters who don't 'stand out' in your view are focused on them needing something in their *rules* to make them stand out in the crowd. Fair enough, but I'd suggest you are undervaluing the uniqueness of the character itself as a distinguishing element. What I mean is that if I'm a fan of Hero Person, but not a fan of Champion Person, then ... even if their *rules* are identical ... I will play with Hero Person. In other words, the value of who the character *is* matters to many players just as much as what they *do*. For many players, this game presents a chance to live out our own favorite fantasies with our own favorite characters, and having their rules be very similar, even identical, to another is not a factor at all as long as they are balanced. I hope that makes sense, and that you take that as an idea, not a complaint. Thank you for making these videos.
I have to agree with your placement of OG Loki, he is a terror and an excellent target distraction along with giants blood he's definitely top their B. the for the video!
I feel I have to comment for the first time because I usually agree with both of you… But 🤣 Nightcrawler is low A tier easy splash for a character to jump about n chase down your toads n black cats. I think Dynamo is S also, he’s tough, dishes out shock n mega splash able. There’s an argument Lady Sif is D because Valkyrie does a better job. I got my mind blown by Electro late game jumping around grabbing hammers so I’d say in a situation he might be A or S. These are my opinions but your list looks good I think I’ve massively underestimated Kingpin so that’s excited me to try him again. Looking forward to Rhino next video I sense he could still be S cos he gets so much done. Good luck finishing these vids lads they must take up a lot of your free time and they are massively appreciated.
Good breakdown. I disagree with several choices but overall you give people the gist of the character and they can investigate them further if they are curious.
I've straight up won games with Mind Transfer several times. It's main effect is changing the usual "daze someone before they activate to prevent a turn" to a much more common "daze someone after they activate and then prevent someone else's turn." Just the impact of having that option on the table is such a fundamental shift in the game.
I'm newer to this game, but to me it kinda seems like you guys are ranking these all based on where you want them to be vs where they are If most of the characters are below average, then your using the wrong line for average Still a great vid though, listened to the whole thing while driving all day
I agree Electro is probably not splaah worthy, but I'm still trying to figure a way to effectively combo magneto and him as using tactically placed constructs to offer him key movements seems a really cool combo.
I genuinely enjoy Mr. Sinister under Red Skull one, but I agree he needs a fix, Give him scientific Hubris for power Gen, and let him spend tokens to remove damage on the same ability that removes conditions and he jumps right up.
Yes, Gwenom is a symbiote: Origin Gwenom is a version of Gwen Stacy, also known as Ghost Spider, who bonded with the Venom symbiote to regain her spider powers after Cindy Moon neutralized them. I'd like to point out that, that in X-Men: First Class. Emma in Diamond form got cracked by Magneto using a hollow metal bed frame. Totally agree that Hellfire should be mutants only and get some tactics cards.
I can't buy the argument that Bill doesn't generate enough power being asgardian, aggressive (which helps getting closer), and a 5 dice builder, but Miles with power (which generates far worse than Bill) is egregious, with no extra power, no way to get closer for free (not that he wants to anyway 😂), and a 4 dice builder. In my experience, Bill becomes super saiyan (aka 4 to 5 power) by turn 2, and only lacks to serve you a tea meanwhile (damage output, board control, reactive powers to compensate enemy displacement and damage, power generation,...). Miles is very good, and very poor 😂😂😂. Anyway, fun to watch, fun to gather info about characters not on my meta, and very fun to interact with you! 🎉
Blade - This model has an amazing leadership and a crap card D tier Cap1 - This model has an amazing leadership and a crap card B tier Tier lists are fun. Keep up the good work.
Ya the blade hate was rough last time :P Especially since you also had Ancient One who has similar issues on her card as Blade and she was C (they liked her builder, but didn't like blades...which is the same builder but his gives auto bleed)
@@RichMidGaming I dont think Blade is as good as Steve 1. Is he B? Probably not, or very bottom. But he is atleast C. His card is nowhere near as bad as some people try to make it out. There are plenty of higher ranked models that are less mobile than him. Once he gets going he gets around fine thanks to his spender (which was greatly indervalued when you discussed him, probably because it seemed to be evaluated solely in terms of offense output and being compared to Dracula's spender).
@@obyiscushobbyandgaming Pretty much this. One of the best 4-threat builders. One of the best 4-threat spenders. Removes conditions. Top 10 leadership. 12 Stamina. Defensive re-rolls. A means to get extra power and healing. His leadership gives him some action economy - no, it isn't a charge, but a lot of characters have nothing at all and were rated higher. Even the energy weakness isn't really that bad. He's got 3 energy defence in a game where there are many characters with less. Here's the real reason he was rated a D instead of a C - Rich doesn't think he feels like Blade from the movies. That's the whole thing.
Would be cool if Hela’s ability to come back only cost 2 Captured Souls but add on a power cost of 4-5ish, and have it flip her back to her healthy side
I would argue that Ursa Major is the original unoriginal character in the game. He's an alcoholic Russian bear who becomes more feral the longer he stays in bear form, how does he not have major (pun intended) changes on his injured side to represent this? Is there anything on his card that isn't cut and pasted from previous characters? Certainly not his superpowers. Also tags would be great, mainly because I'm disappointed that Rogue doesn't have a way to absorb something from every mutant, as opposed to the card she has now where its just a small handful of characters that were out at the time of her release.
Hope you take my thoughts with a grain of salt but i would challenge you to try a couple games with black swan. You may recall how surprised yall were rereading her card, i think she's very good even as a 4
So, I have a bunch of questions and comments, but the one that I am most curious about is Carnage. In your opinion(s), would Carnage be balanced if his defense line was 5-2-2? I love his kit, but definitely recognize that he is not a durable character.
What are you smoking on Hela? At WTC Hela was taken as many times as Gamorra and more then Ancient One and Emma Frost. While I am not saying she is A tier a low D is bonkers.
The stats from one event don't define how good a character is, especially when that event is Highlander rules with 5 man teams, meaning (usually) nobody gets to take all of the tools that they would normally want to.
again the bias runs deep. What on Gwenpool's or Blade's card is bad? Zemo's card his name and being worse than the 3 threat version and Carnage the 1 energy and mystic defense, Hela the 4 stamina, Sinister has the tactic cards and issue generating his kit. Electra still has some issues with power generation and the place costing power (I don't think that puts her in D), but the worst thing on Blade's card is he gives out to much bleed (fits into his identity) and Gwenpool's was just a lack of Identity. She is exactly what you said would do to boost Archangel a range 2 power on damage dealt with a range 4 gain one power, better health no forced place and innate Damage reduction with both Offensive and defensive consistently in stead of the pay for dice increase and the Chosen of apocalypse and then no charge but has the place.
I play a lot of X-Force and thus, Bishop. I must be doing something wrong with him because he doesn't feel like an "A" model for me. I know you guys haven't gotten to her yet, but Psylocke generally puts in way more work than Bishop for me. Lately I've been trying Archangel and he's been pretty good; the charge on him is great to have, his spender having a chance to stagger or activate(I know it's a reach, but I've done it,) and Battlebound is a fantastic card so long as you are taking Warren and Betsy. I need some more games with them but Archangel and Bishop both feel like B tier models for me. Solid kits, not the best, not the worst.
Agent venom sticks out to me as not fitting with the rest of C, he's a niche character, but has splash potential and is super efficient vs webs. Would think he'd be better qualified for B, as IMO he has less significant downsides then almost every character you have in C.
Bill is not S tier. Crimson Dynamo, arguably S tier. Dynamo can move better with his placement power and has a range 4 beam builder. Bill has no extra movement if he isn't attacked, and his range four attack is a spender. Plus Dynamo's ability to reroll attackers dice is huge. However, if your S tier means the model needs to be nerfed than neither is S tier. Lady Sif is way better than you think. She can take damage and with her rerolls and charge she is a powerhouse. I've been wrecking people with her on my Asgard team. Loki top of B? 🤣
Not at all. No S Tiers tells us that (at least in our opinion) there are currently no 4 Threat Characters in the game (that we have gotten to yet at least) that are so egregious in what they do, that they require a nerf. There are plenty of C and D tier characters that need looking at...
There is literally a post on the rules forum that says you can use Hellfire leadership while Emma is dazed. You guys really should learn how internet searches work. Fun episode, though. Top notch comedy.
You are 100% right! There is so many inconsistencies with the leaderships (especially the card based ones) its hard to keep track. So apologies and thanks for correcting us!
I love sinister as a character (Gillian did such a cool job with him back in the day.) So I want him to work in MCP. So I've been putting him in my Apoc lists. Here is kind of what I have found. Pestilence: He doesn't have the mobility to pestilence bomb as well as you would like. And none of his basic attacks apply conditions. He can put root on stuff but the pestilence card does that already. And while you can bring some things in the affiliation to help with his mobility, against good players you often need that movement to help Apoc instead. I think he is the worst choice for Pestilence you can bring in your list. Famine on the other hand? Now we are cooking a bit. Why is Cloning banks a trap? Because you need to move in order to hit and you are usually only hitting 1-2 characters a turn. So you are only building 1-2 genetic samples a turn. But with Famine hop you are able to "freely" move him around and with his base size its actually a pretty good move. This also lets you beam multiple times or strike and beam if you need to build the power. This means you are consistently building 3 genetic samples a turn. Or even letting you beam, root, beam again spending and staying at 3. The range on your attack is also 4. Which keeps him in the range bands you want for famines passive. I have had multiple games now where turn 1 build 1 genetic sample. Nothing great but it gets the cloning banks online. Turn 2, I famine hop toward the clump of middle objectives and build 3 genetic samples. Turn 3 starts and I now have a free honey badger. I could wait till turn 4 and get a 3 threat instead. But I have found having honey badger be just that little bit of annoyance and bodyguard that she is helps keep apocalypse himself up and running. I still don't think this is amazing game breaking stuff. But its fun, and at least elevates him out of D tier and into C tier for the affiliation and getting that extra character online a full turn earlier than in other places breaks stigma cloning banks has as a trap. Bringing in off extra characters and having more threat than your opponent is an extremely powerful mechanic and should be relegated to difficult "probably not worth the hassle" cards.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
I love these videos. People who hate tier list don’t realize that it’s just a reason to talk about every character.
100 percent this. Being relatively new, even playing consistently for 3 months. I love these videos. Great job rich!
Just more Emma comments -- characters can use their leadership when dazed. It's in the FAQ.
Diamond form is a very strong situational tactical option for positioning Emma. The double bump for 1 power is very efficient. Interrupting an attack, the terrain throw, and Shatter are all situational uses.
Glad you guys love Emma, cheers for the video.
I think you're underestimating Voodoo and Nick Fury. Voodoo has really good mystic attacks, one of the best steals in the game, is usually 4/4/6 and generates a ridiculous amount of power with sap power and skulls. Also Fury is splashed competitively as he helps massively with extracts allowing you to grab 2 extracts in your turn and just pass it back when the grunts die, plus gives you Eye.
Think you guys are sleeping on Lady Sif. No way Carol 1 gives more value than her. She is very exceptional and imo provides more value than Bill on most crises since the Brothers in Arms nerf. Turn 1 charge into an any direction push into your team is disgustingly good, it's her best tool. Damage reduction always is valuable, and Master Swordswoman is a good reroll mechanic.
Sure Valkyrie is a threat less, but she's a pure glass cannon and has nowhere near as much mobility as Sif. Again, I value her over Bill most of the time unless I'm going to run into a fair amount of Incinerate. Think she's very solid and I think she's splash worthy if your affiliation needs a tanky/mobile 4 threat. Fantastic under Loki and pretty sick under Red Skull 3 too.
You know what, turn one charge with no help is not to be underestimated - I'll put her on the list for looking at during the next video!
Thanks so much for this. Just started MCP so it’s great to just hear a run down of every character
Welcome to the game! It’s a lot of fun and there are great communities around it. Same with shatterpoint
For the discussion about Frankenstein's monster there's a precedent with Hank Pym and Ultron; being that Ultron's name isn't Ultron Pym it would follow that Adam is just Adam
These videos are invaluable for playing the game
So Gwenom; My recollection of her back story is that she is (shocker) from an alternate dimension. She acquires the venom symbiote in order to fight the carnage symbiote who has taken Mary Jane as a host and has overpowered her, has total control over her mind/body, and gone on a murderous rampage. The bass guitar/axe is Mary Jane's; she uses it in the comic I saw to, well, murder people and fight Gwenom.
My earth's mightiest core set arrived today! Finding these videos so helpful 🙂
17:40 all lines are by definition the shortest distance between two points and are therfore straight. Anything else is a curve.
Great video btw
Actually lines have no definable end. If it has two definable end points it's a line segment.
Yes, if we assume a Euclidean geometry.
Hello again!
Thank you for producing this series. It's very interesting, and I enjoy putting it on while I paint models. Much appreciated.
As I've listened, a thought has struck me that I thought I'd share. Please understand, this is not criticism. This is your channel, and you of course have every right to present it as your wish. This is just a thing to consider.
I've noted that a number of your comments about characters who don't 'stand out' in your view are focused on them needing something in their *rules* to make them stand out in the crowd. Fair enough, but I'd suggest you are undervaluing the uniqueness of the character itself as a distinguishing element.
What I mean is that if I'm a fan of Hero Person, but not a fan of Champion Person, then ... even if their *rules* are identical ... I will play with Hero Person.
In other words, the value of who the character *is* matters to many players just as much as what they *do*.
For many players, this game presents a chance to live out our own favorite fantasies with our own favorite characters, and having their rules be very similar, even identical, to another is not a factor at all as long as they are balanced.
I hope that makes sense, and that you take that as an idea, not a complaint.
Thank you for making these videos.
Love these videos
Very nice videos.
Been anticipating this all week
I have to agree with your placement of OG Loki, he is a terror and an excellent target distraction along with giants blood he's definitely top their B. the for the video!
I feel I have to comment for the first time because I usually agree with both of you… But 🤣
Nightcrawler is low A tier easy splash for a character to jump about n chase down your toads n black cats.
I think Dynamo is S also, he’s tough, dishes out shock n mega splash able.
There’s an argument Lady Sif is D because Valkyrie does a better job.
I got my mind blown by Electro late game jumping around grabbing hammers so I’d say in a situation he might be A or S.
These are my opinions but your list looks good I think I’ve massively underestimated Kingpin so that’s excited me to try him again.
Looking forward to Rhino next video I sense he could still be S cos he gets so much done.
Good luck finishing these vids lads they must take up a lot of your free time and they are massively appreciated.
Good breakdown. I disagree with several choices but overall you give people the gist of the character and they can investigate them further if they are curious.
At the Gwenom segment- Have you thought about rolling better Quinn? 😂
My issues I run into with Gwenom is that I never get to use “Pick On Someone Your Own Size” because she’s so aggressive she’s the one being attacked
Frankenstein's Monster goes by the nickname Frank in the comics so it is correct to call him Frank
I've straight up won games with Mind Transfer several times. It's main effect is changing the usual "daze someone before they activate to prevent a turn" to a much more common "daze someone after they activate and then prevent someone else's turn." Just the impact of having that option on the table is such a fundamental shift in the game.
I still think you guys were alittle harsh on blade I dont think he's D tier for sure C tier but he's not unplayable
I'm newer to this game, but to me it kinda seems like you guys are ranking these all based on where you want them to be vs where they are
If most of the characters are below average, then your using the wrong line for average
Still a great vid though, listened to the whole thing while driving all day
I know what i'm listening to while painting!
I agree Electro is probably not splaah worthy, but I'm still trying to figure a way to effectively combo magneto and him as using tactically placed constructs to offer him key movements seems a really cool combo.
I genuinely enjoy Mr. Sinister under Red Skull one, but I agree he needs a fix, Give him scientific Hubris for power Gen, and let him spend tokens to remove damage on the same ability that removes conditions and he jumps right up.
For me Sinister’s beam should not cost power. It should be zero cost, and you are just getting the tokens instead.
Yes, Gwenom is a symbiote: Origin
Gwenom is a version of Gwen Stacy, also known as Ghost Spider, who bonded with the Venom symbiote to regain her spider powers after Cindy Moon neutralized them.
I'd like to point out that, that in X-Men: First Class. Emma in Diamond form got cracked by Magneto using a hollow metal bed frame. Totally agree that Hellfire should be mutants only and get some tactics cards.
I can't buy the argument that Bill doesn't generate enough power being asgardian, aggressive (which helps getting closer), and a 5 dice builder, but Miles with power (which generates far worse than Bill) is egregious, with no extra power, no way to get closer for free (not that he wants to anyway 😂), and a 4 dice builder.
In my experience, Bill becomes super saiyan (aka 4 to 5 power) by turn 2, and only lacks to serve you a tea meanwhile (damage output, board control, reactive powers to compensate enemy displacement and damage, power generation,...).
Miles is very good, and very poor 😂😂😂.
Anyway, fun to watch, fun to gather info about characters not on my meta, and very fun to interact with you! 🎉
Blade - This model has an amazing leadership and a crap card D tier
Cap1 - This model has an amazing leadership and a crap card B tier
Tier lists are fun. Keep up the good work.
Ya the blade hate was rough last time :P Especially since you also had Ancient One who has similar issues on her card as Blade and she was C (they liked her builder, but didn't like blades...which is the same builder but his gives auto bleed)
So a couple of things here. Cap 1's leadership is much better (imp) than Blades, plus Cap 1 overall is a much better character than Blade (again, imo)
That’s a fair opinion that I’ll disagree with. But I respect it.
@@RichMidGaming I dont think Blade is as good as Steve 1. Is he B? Probably not, or very bottom. But he is atleast C. His card is nowhere near as bad as some people try to make it out. There are plenty of higher ranked models that are less mobile than him. Once he gets going he gets around fine thanks to his spender (which was greatly indervalued when you discussed him, probably because it seemed to be evaluated solely in terms of offense output and being compared to Dracula's spender).
@@obyiscushobbyandgaming Pretty much this. One of the best 4-threat builders. One of the best 4-threat spenders. Removes conditions. Top 10 leadership. 12 Stamina. Defensive re-rolls. A means to get extra power and healing. His leadership gives him some action economy - no, it isn't a charge, but a lot of characters have nothing at all and were rated higher. Even the energy weakness isn't really that bad. He's got 3 energy defence in a game where there are many characters with less. Here's the real reason he was rated a D instead of a C - Rich doesn't think he feels like Blade from the movies. That's the whole thing.
Would be cool if Hela’s ability to come back only cost 2 Captured Souls but add on a power cost of 4-5ish, and have it flip her back to her healthy side
Do you think Frankenstein's monster should have Nebulas cybernetic Nehancments instead and have it be remove 2 at the beginning of his turn?
I would argue that Ursa Major is the original unoriginal character in the game. He's an alcoholic Russian bear who becomes more feral the longer he stays in bear form, how does he not have major (pun intended) changes on his injured side to represent this? Is there anything on his card that isn't cut and pasted from previous characters? Certainly not his superpowers.
Also tags would be great, mainly because I'm disappointed that Rogue doesn't have a way to absorb something from every mutant, as opposed to the card she has now where its just a small handful of characters that were out at the time of her release.
Hope you take my thoughts with a grain of salt but i would challenge you to try a couple games with black swan. You may recall how surprised yall were rereading her card, i think she's very good even as a 4
I was surprised at the placement of Frankenstein. Seems like a solid B at least.
Frank's main problem is lack of power.
So, I have a bunch of questions and comments, but the one that I am most curious about is Carnage. In your opinion(s), would Carnage be balanced if his defense line was 5-2-2? I love his kit, but definitely recognize that he is not a durable character.
What are you smoking on Hela? At WTC Hela was taken as many times as Gamorra and more then Ancient One and Emma Frost. While I am not saying she is A tier a low D is bonkers.
The stats from one event don't define how good a character is, especially when that event is Highlander rules with 5 man teams, meaning (usually) nobody gets to take all of the tools that they would normally want to.
I think Hellfire would be fine (and more thematic) if it required X-men or Brotherhood affiliation to play.
again the bias runs deep. What on Gwenpool's or Blade's card is bad? Zemo's card his name and being worse than the 3 threat version and Carnage the 1 energy and mystic defense, Hela the 4 stamina, Sinister has the tactic cards and issue generating his kit. Electra still has some issues with power generation and the place costing power (I don't think that puts her in D), but the worst thing on Blade's card is he gives out to much bleed (fits into his identity) and Gwenpool's was just a lack of Identity. She is exactly what you said would do to boost Archangel a range 2 power on damage dealt with a range 4 gain one power, better health no forced place and innate Damage reduction with both Offensive and defensive consistently in stead of the pay for dice increase and the Chosen of apocalypse and then no charge but has the place.
I play a lot of X-Force and thus, Bishop. I must be doing something wrong with him because he doesn't feel like an "A" model for me. I know you guys haven't gotten to her yet, but Psylocke generally puts in way more work than Bishop for me. Lately I've been trying Archangel and he's been pretty good; the charge on him is great to have, his spender having a chance to stagger or activate(I know it's a reach, but I've done it,) and Battlebound is a fantastic card so long as you are taking Warren and Betsy. I need some more games with them but Archangel and Bishop both feel like B tier models for me. Solid kits, not the best, not the worst.
Agent venom sticks out to me as not fitting with the rest of C, he's a niche character, but has splash potential and is super efficient vs webs. Would think he'd be better qualified for B, as IMO he has less significant downsides then almost every character you have in C.
Bill is not S tier. Crimson Dynamo, arguably S tier. Dynamo can move better with his placement power and has a range 4 beam builder. Bill has no extra movement if he isn't attacked, and his range four attack is a spender. Plus Dynamo's ability to reroll attackers dice is huge. However, if your S tier means the model needs to be nerfed than neither is S tier. Lady Sif is way better than you think. She can take damage and with her rerolls and charge she is a powerhouse. I've been wrecking people with her on my Asgard team. Loki top of B? 🤣
So, are we just saying that 4 threats are perfect? No S seems to say so.
Not at all. No S Tiers tells us that (at least in our opinion) there are currently no 4 Threat Characters in the game (that we have gotten to yet at least) that are so egregious in what they do, that they require a nerf.
There are plenty of C and D tier characters that need looking at...
Still think Bill is higher than bishop as he plays extracts better.
Did you watch it all Glynn ;-)
@RichMidGaming watching now :)
There is literally a post on the rules forum that says you can use Hellfire leadership while Emma is dazed. You guys really should learn how internet searches work. Fun episode, though. Top notch comedy.
You are 100% right! There is so many inconsistencies with the leaderships (especially the card based ones) its hard to keep track. So apologies and thanks for correcting us!
I love sinister as a character (Gillian did such a cool job with him back in the day.) So I want him to work in MCP. So I've been putting him in my Apoc lists. Here is kind of what I have found.
Pestilence: He doesn't have the mobility to pestilence bomb as well as you would like. And none of his basic attacks apply conditions. He can put root on stuff but the pestilence card does that already. And while you can bring some things in the affiliation to help with his mobility, against good players you often need that movement to help Apoc instead. I think he is the worst choice for Pestilence you can bring in your list.
Famine on the other hand? Now we are cooking a bit. Why is Cloning banks a trap? Because you need to move in order to hit and you are usually only hitting 1-2 characters a turn. So you are only building 1-2 genetic samples a turn. But with Famine hop you are able to "freely" move him around and with his base size its actually a pretty good move. This also lets you beam multiple times or strike and beam if you need to build the power. This means you are consistently building 3 genetic samples a turn. Or even letting you beam, root, beam again spending and staying at 3. The range on your attack is also 4. Which keeps him in the range bands you want for famines passive.
I have had multiple games now where turn 1 build 1 genetic sample. Nothing great but it gets the cloning banks online. Turn 2, I famine hop toward the clump of middle objectives and build 3 genetic samples. Turn 3 starts and I now have a free honey badger. I could wait till turn 4 and get a 3 threat instead. But I have found having honey badger be just that little bit of annoyance and bodyguard that she is helps keep apocalypse himself up and running.
I still don't think this is amazing game breaking stuff. But its fun, and at least elevates him out of D tier and into C tier for the affiliation and getting that extra character online a full turn earlier than in other places breaks stigma cloning banks has as a trap. Bringing in off extra characters and having more threat than your opponent is an extremely powerful mechanic and should be relegated to difficult "probably not worth the hassle" cards.