How (Not) to Pronounce the 3 (or 4...) Rs of (Irish) Gaelic ("July an Chabáiste" Special!) 2/31
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- I recommend watching this at 1.5x speed at least!
The 3 (or 4...) R-phonemes of Gaelic (Irish/Scottish/Manx)
The first (.i.e, the 4th...) R is theoretical and is no longer phonemic (.i.e., considered as capable of changing a word's meaning when pronounced);
Strong Slender R [R'] = a palatal trill (a rolled R with the tung's middle positioned to say yee, like Czech r^)
as in Old (and Modern) Irish/Gaelic
rí /R'i:/ 'king',
Béirre /b'e:R'E/(has regularly become modern Béarra /B'e:Rə/ 'Bearra (Peninsula),
eirr /eR'/ (prepositional-case of earr '(tail-)end, extremity'
even in the early Old Irish/Gaelic Era c.600-900, Strong Slender R /R'/ merged into Strong Broad R
Strong Broad R = [R] = a velar/non-palatal trill (a rolled R like stereotypical Scottish R, Spanish r- and -rr-), as in;
roth /Roh/ 'a wheel'
carraig /KaRəG'/ 'a rock'
barr (Old Gaelic /BaR/, Modern Gaelic /Ba:R/ as if bár(r)) 'a top; a crop'
Strong Broad [R] has become Weak Broad [r] in;
- Munster, without exception
- generally in Counties Galway (Cona Mara) & Mayo, (especially among middle-aged and universally(?) among young speakers), but it seems to have survived in East Connachta (Co. Roscommon, and? Co. Sligo) - see Heinrich Wagner's Linguistic Atlas & Survey of Irish Dialects, volume 1 (linguistic maps) and volume 3 (phonetic-transcriptions from Connachta)
- less generally in County Donegal in Ulster.
Weak Broad r = [ɾ] = a velar/non-palatal tap (like an extremely short D)
as in
a roth /ə ɾoh/ 'his wheel',
cara /Kaɾə/ 'friend',
ór /o:ɾ/ 'gold'
Weak Slender r = [ɾ'] = a palatal tap (like an extremely short D, with the tung's middle positioned to pronounce yee)
A rí! 'O king! (slender r at the start of words is practically always broad r nowadays, so that a rí! is pronounced with broad r /ɾi:/)
náire /Na:ɾ'I/ 'shame'
b'fhéidir /B'e:D'iɾ'/ ''It would be possible')
![The best trilled [r] video yet!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/joVgJUO74Mg/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you so much for taking so much time to answer my question! This really helps! I still have to get used to the pronunciation but I think I can do it.
Thank you so much for providing this detailed and much needed clarification! As a (German) learner of the Irish language, I have been puzzled by the confusing variety of pronunciations of the r across Ireland, even among fluent speakers who appear to be "native". The slender r is clearly endangered, and many teachers of Irish seem to be completely oblivious to it.
The Duolingo Irish course currently has over 2 million learners who will not be learning slender r from the course.
It is far more than just the slender r that is endangered. The entire native sound system of the language is endangered. Once the Gaeltacht areas lost critical mass in the sixties/seventies it's been downhill since. I won't even mention the 'school Irish' taught to the 99% of English Ireland.
Thankfully there at least has been some work done in recording the sounds of the language for posterity...
@@kevingriffin1376do you know of a good place to learn real scottish gaelic?
July topic ideas.
What has worked best for transmitting Irish to young learners? We teach Navajo in our schools here but it produces very few actual speakers. Sounds like this is the case in ireland and I'm wondering what actually does work there.
Also, why the extra schwa sound between some consonants like in gorm and film?
If you're tapping or rolling your R (which you should be), there physically has to be a 'shwa sound' between R and a following consonant. Maybe someone else can describe it better.
Not sure why, but that extra sound is called the guta cúnaimh/helping vowel, if you want the terminology to look it up
Tá áthas orm go bhfuil tú ar ais!
I greatly appreciate your insight on the Irish language; hearing you speak with written examples is a tremendous help in shaping my pronunciation as I learn.
Most online dictionaries with audio examples have recordings of speakers using the English R sounds, and it's incredibly frustrating when I'm trying to improve my pronunciation.
Tá r maith ar teanglann agus focloir ar na focla atá ansin caithfidh mé a rá
Glad you're back. Tá áthas orm go bhfuil tú ar ais
Grmma as an sár-fhíseán! Ceist atá agam ná céard iad na botúin fhoghlaimeora a fheiceann tú is minice, ó thaobh an fhuaimnithe de? Ní dóigh liom go mbeadh blas foirfe dúchais agam go deo ach bím ag déanamh iarracht i gcónaí na ch-annaí agus na r-annaí caola a rá i gceart. Má tá aon cheann eile ann ba bhreá liom iad a thuiscint.
Agus ceist bheag eile ag baint leis an ábhar seo; céard a cheapann tú faoi thionchar foghlaimeoirí ar fhuaimniú na teanga sa lá atá inniu ann? An bhfuil saghas canúint nua ar an bhfód anois atá lán le fóinéimí an Bhéarla? Nó an droch-Ghaeilge é an stíl labhartha seo i ndáiríre, meastú?
'm drankin the whole damn oasis with thisun. Thankyuh
Christmas come early!
Go raibh maith agat! Please keep making these!
i personally try to use 4 r’s
broad n slender trilled (rang & rí)
broad n slender tapped (amárach & arís)
TÁ SÉ AR AIS.
Mo rí
go raibh míle maith agat 🙏🏼🙏🏼☘️
Is foghlaimeoir atá ionam ach níos mó a foghlaim go fóill. Go raibh míle maith agatsa.
Mac An Fhailigh for Iorrus gives the retroflex for srian but not for sruth, if memory serves me correctly
I have been searching the internet for the best place to learn authentic Scottish Gaelic. Because its a small unrepresented language im paranoid about learning it the wrong way. If you or anyone can tell me id appreciate it
Go hiontach
He has to be done by midnight as the woman is calling to him from the bed 😎
Go raibh míle
Does anybody have a clue on how to pronounce the slender R sound? I can perfectly pronounce the broad R, but after several months, I've failed with the slender R. It's so damn hard, and I can never find a good description on how to pronounce it. I'm tired of adding a "ž" sound after a broad R when pronouncing words like "fir" and "óir" when it sounds nothing like the real deal.... 🥲🙏
try saying the í vowel, keep your tongue there and try using only the tip of your tongue to pronounce the r without moving anything else