So option 1 was basically a 180mm gun welded to a slightly oversized bren carrier - they must have used up all the beer mats in the pub designing that one.
Amazing design. Looking at in-game representation, I couldn't believe it was real, but here it is. BTW, currently there are at least two GSORs in WOT - TD and LT.
@@mnh1270 yup, did the resrach for the light line, chimera, caliban, cobra and so on, got fired last year due to a former youtuber gettign butthurt. so now just focus on this stuff
@@armouredarchives8867 oh that's why I was so captivated by your channel! Everything is so oddly familiar thus watching these feels really relatable and informative.
Lovely presentation as always presently binging through your back catalogue of videos. I was a beta tester on Wot but gave up playing around 8 months ago. Greed, Russian bias and ignoring the player base ruined a once great game. But now we have SPROCKET which is tons of fun and actually shows how hard it can be to design a tank all be it in simplified terms. Good fun and big thumbs up to Hamish its creator.
This is some amazing info. Great job showing all the drawings and blueprints! Manticore is a really interesting tank to play in World of tanks. Learning about its real-life design philosophy is very exciting.
I did a number of videos on the Manticore/Chimera 1955 recently when one of my members did some rather good games. I've gone back to the description of these videos and left a link to this video. I did tell the viewers at the time, that the real name was the Chimera 1955. Now they can see what was actually designed.
The later Wombat was a superb piece of kit, especially mounted on a landrover. You could tuck that in nicely, ready to shoot and bugger off to the next location. 2000m with a good crew, easily 1500m.
At least a manticore is similar to a chimera and that turret / gun combination does look rather reminiscent of a scorpion's stinger and tail. Good work bringing the details of the tank to light BTW.
Just a point of interest. Weapon of Magnesium Battalion Anti Tank (WOMBAT) was a 120mm Recoilless Rifle introduced into service in the late 1960s. It did have it's uses. My first and thankfully last encounter with WOMBAT was being assigned to a land rover mounted version used by regular and TA units in the UK and Germany. It could be fired while on the vehicle or dismounted with some manual labour, as required. The short wheelbase LR had everything above the steering wheel removed and gave the lowest possible profile for the mounted weapon. Being easily camouflaged the LR weapons system was versatile and easy to conceal in the German countryside. It carried many more heavy HS rounds in boxes than would be needed. Therein lay the devil. All good so far until it was time to fire. Anyone who has seen either WOMBAT or similar BAT weapon fire, will know what comes next. A huge muzzle flash and cone back blast visible and audible from everywhere! Much more spectacular than the Charlie G on a bad day. WHOOMPH! Here we are Ivan. As the many T64 turrets turn your way.
Wargaming in a nutshell - "This tank was only ever a sketch on a napkin, but it's Russian so it must have had the gun and armour (spaced, of course) from a battleship, fire at least 10 rounds per minute, and do 5000hp alpha damage while shooting the wings off a fly"
Confused! Drawing shows a required range of 1 400 ft for Chimera, but the commentary states (at 2 mins 25 secs) 1 000 metres! Slight difference - which is correct? Great (as usual) presentation!
Definitely an interesting snapshot of how creative AFV designs really were in the 1950's, ironically a decade typically thought of as [somehow] dull. Would be interesting to see what ideas they had for vehicle-mounting the BAT.
2 года назад
Nice Video as usual. I am a littel surprise that they planed with APDS rounds. Would habe thought everyone worked with HEAT as the main round at that time. Or maybe HESH for a British Tank. But then I dont realy know much about that tank period.
I mean, I get that the name Chimera was already in use. But if we can have the Scorpion and the Skorpion, there'd be no problem with Chimera and Chimera 1955. But the real problem was Wargaming's inexplicable use of the Chimera 1955 as a light tank at all. Should've just taken CVR(T) No.11 (the lengthened 6 road wheel prototype that eventually became the basis for the Alvis Stormer) and stick a turret with a 105mm on top of it. And put the entirely real Scorpion 90 as the Tier 9.
i think the problem is that both the FV 107 Scimitar and the rest of them would have been too fast, cause they have a small profile and WG can't let anything besides USSR tanks have a lower profile, good armor and a good top speed if it's not russian, seeing as the Crusader was tested with the meteor engine from the cromwell and able to go 80 km/h just like the FV 107.
@@strategicmind2652 nope, it was the guns they didnt want,, they beleive players want bigger guns per tier, and so 30mm was shot down, but tbh they have very little idea about how guns work, or performance, just bigger is better in their eyes.
All in all WG had all the data they needed to make a GOOD british LT line but decided against it cause F it, we need more op russian tanks with ridiculous gun dep even if the tank itself is as flat as a pancake, imo the british LT line could have been about small guns and High ROF just like the Matilda 2 in T4 and the churchill line. but NO.
I think WG should lean even stronger into the high alpha with the Manticore. Give it 440 alpha (if you really want to go craz 490, but i think thats a bit too much) and ou have a light tank with a heavy tank gun which would make the dpm more bearable. The Manticore is still a fun tank to play, imo. Harder to play than other light tanks, sure, but still fun and incredibly sneaky.
@@williamnghiem6890 haha Vickers Light line go brr like really both is used for recon and fast with good damage, and one has god DPM and other had shit DPM among other things- really how? lel
Ivan: Boris, I think we are being invaded by British Hobits driving French tanks. Boris: Don't be stupid Ivan, the British would never use a French tank.
This was a great video, I really enjoyed learning from it! Too bad the project wasn't ever really considered to be made IRL, it would have been such an interesting tank.
This could have been great as a tank destroyer. Maybe at tier 8 or tier 9, functioning like a turreted Strv S1/Strv 103. As it stands though, I hope if they do buff it they focus on the gun and camo and make it even more like a tier 10 AMX ELC bis, which is another TD made light.
Yep the ELC Bis is a airdrop capebel td not really a light but the in game camo will moving isn't samething I like to miss and without it I wouldn't have made it to to 50 in the hall of fame for same moths but the pre TierX light ELC was even more fun
I know, both are the result of my work for them! - which is why we cover the name issue in the video, Chimera at tier 8 was also an STT project, albeit even older. so when this new one came in WG said that players won’t be able to remember two names the same. - and renamed it Manticore.
As always a great vid. Shame WG fumbled yet another Brit design. They've had a chance to produce a unique and interesting tech tree with British concepts, but deliberately re-classify or alter designs to hobble them.
Thank you for this. It's so bloody sad what has happened to the British Army's Tanks. Within 10 years? All that will be left of the once powerful, British tank force? Are 148 Challenger 3's. But - as you must know - this name is NOTHING but a political move. The Challenger 3's will just be Challenger 2's that are refurbished and given the Leopard 2's gun and a new turret. And the work will not even be done by a British company. As the company modifying these tanks is actually, majority owned by Germans. So...by 2030? All the British Army will have for MBT's? Are a pathetically-small, 148 upgraded Challenger 2's that will be at least 29 years old since they were first manufactured. And most of the work will be done by a mostly, German-owned company based in England. Absolutely sad and pathetic. ☮
"As the vehicle was limited to a few of two, it would have been unable to for on the move." That makes zero sense. It does not follow at all. With the design choices they made subsequently, yes, sure. But the conclusion is not a function of, or derive from, the initial statement.
Well I did say ‘unlikely’ the crew of two would have realistically never got past the RAC board regardless, they have very strong feelings about limited crew vehicles. There were a few exceptions, ferret being one, but that had a different role. as for firing on the move, the gun had no form of stabalization fitted. The specifications are after all written by the school of tank technology, not the RAC itself
![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
So option 1 was basically a 180mm gun welded to a slightly oversized bren carrier - they must have used up all the beer mats in the pub designing that one.
and all the beer
Certainly an entertaining example of: Smallest Vehicle Possible + Largest Gun Possible = Engineering Heresy.
"Designed light tank Chimera 1955, gets rejected"
British reasoning: *It's too French....*
As good a reason as any XD.
Amazing design. Looking at in-game representation, I couldn't believe it was real, but here it is. BTW, currently there are at least two GSORs in WOT - TD and LT.
i know most of the UK stuff for the last 2 years was my work while contracted to them :)
@@armouredarchives8867 You were contracted by WG???
@@mnh1270 yup, did the resrach for the light line, chimera, caliban, cobra and so on, got fired last year due to a former youtuber gettign butthurt. so now just focus on this stuff
@@armouredarchives8867 oh that's why I was so captivated by your channel! Everything is so oddly familiar thus watching these feels really relatable and informative.
@@armouredarchives8867 I was wondering why actual light tanks were ignored like the the FV100 series were ignored
Lovely presentation as always presently binging through your back catalogue of videos.
I was a beta tester on Wot but gave up playing around 8 months ago. Greed, Russian bias and ignoring the player base ruined a once great game. But now we have SPROCKET which is tons of fun and actually shows how hard it can be to design a tank all be it in simplified terms. Good fun and big thumbs up to Hamish its creator.
This is some amazing info. Great job showing all the drawings and blueprints!
Manticore is a really interesting tank to play in World of tanks. Learning about its real-life design philosophy is very exciting.
Excellent work. Good to see that the RMCS gave it's students challenging & relevant studies, reminiscent of my own Mech Eng experience. Thank you
I did a number of videos on the Manticore/Chimera 1955 recently when one of my members did some rather good games.
I've gone back to the description of these videos and left a link to this video.
I did tell the viewers at the time, that the real name was the Chimera 1955. Now they can see what was actually designed.
cheers guys
Cant wait for the next instalment, thank you for the time and effort required to produce these videos.
Glad you like them!
Slowly fading game.... priceless😂😂😂 great videos
Thank you for another great video. Keep up the great work!
The later Wombat was a superb piece of kit, especially mounted on a landrover. You could tuck that in nicely, ready to shoot and bugger off to the next location. 2000m with a good crew, easily 1500m.
Agreed...The surprise package has been delivered!
M 56 Scorpion and the lovely M 50 Ontos were my bedspread war game models that took on Godzilla and the Wehrmacht.
cheers, ed! it's always a good day when you pop a video online, thanks! interesting vehicle, indeed :)
Glad you enjoyed it
Brilliant, thanks for finally getting this one out and clearing up after all the sh** it gets. Keep going, these are unique and amazing!
Glad you like them!
Great video, thanks for your hard work.
My pleasure!
Keep it up mate!
Excellent work. 👍👍
Thanks, will do!
One of the best tank channels on RUclips.
Well done.
Appreciate that
Slowly fading computer game😂
*No no: He's got a point.*
At least a manticore is similar to a chimera and that turret / gun combination does look rather reminiscent of a scorpion's stinger and tail.
Good work bringing the details of the tank to light BTW.
Just a point of interest. Weapon of Magnesium Battalion Anti Tank (WOMBAT) was a 120mm Recoilless Rifle introduced into service in the late 1960s. It did have it's uses. My first and thankfully last encounter with WOMBAT was being assigned to a land rover mounted version used by regular and TA units in the UK and Germany. It could be fired while on the vehicle or dismounted with some manual labour, as required. The short wheelbase LR had everything above the steering wheel removed and gave the lowest possible profile for the mounted weapon. Being easily camouflaged the LR weapons system was versatile and easy to conceal in the German countryside. It carried many more heavy HS rounds in boxes than would be needed. Therein lay the devil. All good so far until it was time to fire.
Anyone who has seen either WOMBAT or similar BAT weapon fire, will know what comes next. A huge muzzle flash and cone back blast visible and audible from everywhere! Much more spectacular than the Charlie G on a bad day. WHOOMPH! Here we are Ivan. As the many T64 turrets turn your way.
Sod WoT and their fantasy tanks, thank you for the truth as usual, and well told too.
Very welcome
Wargaming in a nutshell - "This tank was only ever a sketch on a napkin, but it's Russian so it must have had the gun and armour (spaced, of course) from a battleship, fire at least 10 rounds per minute, and do 5000hp alpha damage while shooting the wings off a fly"
@@Kevin-mx1vi ^ seems a bit underpowered and weak for a WG napkin, needs more lazers and a raptor or two
Confused! Drawing shows a required range of 1 400 ft for Chimera, but the commentary states (at 2 mins 25 secs) 1 000 metres! Slight difference - which is correct? Great (as usual) presentation!
Clever stuff from you.
*Great work fella! Keep 'em coming, really enjoying these vids*
Definitely an interesting snapshot of how creative AFV designs really were in the 1950's, ironically a decade typically thought of as [somehow] dull.
Would be interesting to see what ideas they had for vehicle-mounting the BAT.
Nice Video as usual. I am a littel surprise that they planed with APDS rounds. Would habe thought everyone worked with HEAT as the main round at that time. Or maybe HESH for a British Tank. But then I dont realy know much about that tank period.
Love your work on debunking WoT tanks based on unrealized projects!
Much appreciated!
@@armouredarchives8867 Also, I joined your Discord. Have you seen my message?
It's a game, that's all.
whats there to debunk? its a game not a simulator
Well this channel was very underrated 😉👍 for the vids
I appreciate that!
I mean, I get that the name Chimera was already in use. But if we can have the Scorpion and the Skorpion, there'd be no problem with Chimera and Chimera 1955.
But the real problem was Wargaming's inexplicable use of the Chimera 1955 as a light tank at all. Should've just taken CVR(T) No.11 (the lengthened 6 road wheel prototype that eventually became the basis for the Alvis Stormer) and stick a turret with a 105mm on top of it. And put the entirely real Scorpion 90 as the Tier 9.
they were offered cvrt. said no
i think the problem is that both the FV 107 Scimitar and the rest of them would have been too fast, cause they have a small profile and WG can't let anything besides USSR tanks have a lower profile, good armor and a good top speed if it's not russian, seeing as the Crusader was tested with the meteor engine from the cromwell and able to go 80 km/h just like the FV 107.
@@strategicmind2652 Too fast? *Laughs in wheeled vehicles in WOT*
@@sharlin648 tank wise too fast, if you look in WT the EBR 90 goes 115 and the RU251 goes 89 forwards and 89 in REVERSE
@@strategicmind2652 nope, it was the guns they didnt want,, they beleive players want bigger guns per tier, and so 30mm was shot down, but tbh they have very little idea about how guns work, or performance, just bigger is better in their eyes.
World of Tanks got us interested in tanks, now we're interested in an actually good tank game.
Great video mate, congrats!
Love the icons!
Always interesting, keep 'em coming!
Thanks, will do!
hello. i love all your vids man and i preciate the work you put in your vids man. keep up the good work :}}
I appreciate it!
All in all WG had all the data they needed to make a GOOD british LT line but decided against it cause F it, we need more op russian tanks with ridiculous gun dep even if the tank itself is as flat as a pancake, imo the british LT line could have been about small guns and High ROF just like the Matilda 2 in T4 and the churchill line. but NO.
I think WG should lean even stronger into the high alpha with the Manticore. Give it 440 alpha (if you really want to go craz 490, but i think thats a bit too much) and ou have a light tank with a heavy tank gun which would make the dpm more bearable.
The Manticore is still a fun tank to play, imo. Harder to play than other light tanks, sure, but still fun and incredibly sneaky.
Meanwhile in WoTB we have the Vickers Light, and the FV301
@@williamnghiem6890 haha Vickers Light line go brr
like really both is used for recon and fast with good damage, and one has god DPM and other had shit DPM among other things- really how? lel
Amen
Ivan: Boris, I think we are being invaded by British Hobits driving French tanks.
Boris: Don't be stupid Ivan, the British would never use a French tank.
Even the French do not want to use
their own tanks ,
so they used Panthers after WWII🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@steffenrosmus9177 the French do their very best to not use any of their weapons.
This was a great video, I really enjoyed learning from it! Too bad the project wasn't ever really considered to be made IRL, it would have been such an interesting tank.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This could have been great as a tank destroyer. Maybe at tier 8 or tier 9, functioning like a turreted Strv S1/Strv 103.
As it stands though, I hope if they do buff it they focus on the gun and camo and make it even more like a tier 10 AMX ELC bis, which is another TD made light.
WG Really nerfs the Strv TD lines firepower compared to the real thing, belt fed autoloader firing 50 rounds once every 3 seconds
Yep the ELC Bis is a airdrop capebel td not really a light but the in game camo will moving isn't samething I like to miss and without it I wouldn't have made it to to 50 in the hall of fame for same moths but the pre TierX light ELC was even more fun
Except the 103 was never a TD to begin with
@@johanmetreus1268 yep the strv103 is a early MBT project so like the obj 430 (predecessor to the t72)
Intriguing
Yes, its cursedly hard to find enough Hobbits to man such armored vehicles.
Another great video illustrating that WG gets British tanks all wrong. Dare I ask about the other Chimera?
tier 8 in wot and another based on a chiftain chassis much later on
Everyone= chimera 1955
Wot players= MANTICORE
This looks like a Bat-Chaiatillon cool
speaking of "Chimera", could you have a look at what WoT calls the "Chimera"? I'm interested to know if it existed because I think it's cool.
i do indeed, as i supplied them with the details and limited drawings - they still messed it up tho
Come to think of it: How come Chimera 1955 used torsion bar suspension, instead of a scaled down Horstmann setup?.
the description makes it sound like it would have fit better into the games tank destroyer catagory than its light tank one
I hope WG will introduce the 180mm gun version into WoT.
Just to let you know, I ended up here after a Jingles video where a guy used this Manticore to get to the top of a win. An it wasn't Aurorik.
It looks like it comes from the build your own tank game Sprocket
Its been in wot for a long time
This thing looks like it would have been a nightmare to serve in
Wasn’t this tank called Manticore? Also there are indeed tank in WoT called Chimera but it’s a tier8 reward British medium tank.
I know, both are the result of my work for them! - which is why we cover the name issue in the video, Chimera at tier 8 was also an STT project, albeit even older. so when this new one came in WG said that players won’t be able to remember two names the same. - and renamed it Manticore.
Wot changed the nane to not comfuse players with the other one
@@dogone7282 Wargaming are morons.
@@funnyguy3D truth.
if they wanted it to have a low profile why didnt they put the gun lower like the stug??
guess they wanted a turret?
I wonder if the vehicle in game that takes the name of "Chimera" was a real project as well as this one.
yes, also an STT project for a heavy tank
Plans for a book still on???
I'll settle for more FMBT...
i lost a great deal of the book when the old hardrive went, about 175 pages worth. cos im a numpty who didnt back it up.
@@armouredarchives8867 Based on the quality of your videos, if you can rewrite it I'm sure it'll be amazing - guaranteed customer here!
What about the caliban in WoT Blitz?
ASU-85?
thats one T H I C C AMX-13
As always a great vid. Shame WG fumbled yet another Brit design. They've had a chance to produce a unique and interesting tech tree with British concepts, but deliberately re-classify or alter designs to hobble them.
in a nutshell...yes
This is similar to what the Germans were doing at the end of war with the Pak 43/3 88mm Waffentrager vehicles. Which could make an interesting video?
Chimera in world of tanks blitz ahh u know.
Is it just me or does this tank look remarkably like the Manticore in WoT's?
it is manticore in wot, they just rebranded it, i did the base research for them on it :)
And the moral of the story is...
Never try to learn military history from a video game
ohhh if only that were true sadly :(
Given it's small fuel tank, Rota trailer anyone?
the name outclass the vehicle... should be called the Pinocchio
Thank you for this.
It's so bloody sad what has happened to the British Army's Tanks.
Within 10 years?
All that will be left of the once powerful, British tank force?
Are 148 Challenger 3's.
But - as you must know - this name is NOTHING but a political move.
The Challenger 3's will just be Challenger 2's that are refurbished and given the Leopard 2's gun and a new turret.
And the work will not even be done by a British company.
As the company modifying these tanks is actually, majority owned by Germans.
So...by 2030?
All the British Army will have for MBT's?
Are a pathetically-small, 148 upgraded Challenger 2's that will be at least 29 years old since they were first manufactured.
And most of the work will be done by a mostly, German-owned company based in England.
Absolutely sad and pathetic.
☮
Looks like a French tank
A tankette maybe, but not a tank. And not a turd. It's only a turd if it fails at the job it was designed to do.
No it's an assault gun/tank destroyer. Tankette are essentially tracked armoured cars
Only $94 for a crate.
wish they gave it a 180mm gun..
for the lols
"As the vehicle was limited to a few of two, it would have been unable to for on the move."
That makes zero sense. It does not follow at all. With the design choices they made subsequently, yes, sure. But the conclusion is not a function of, or derive from, the initial statement.
Well I did say ‘unlikely’ the crew of two would have realistically never got past the RAC board regardless, they have very strong feelings about limited crew vehicles. There were a few exceptions, ferret being one, but that had a different role. as for firing on the move, the gun had no form of stabalization fitted. The specifications are after all written by the school of tank technology, not the RAC itself
World of Tanks lied to us?
*gasp*
No, say it ain't so!
Lol
the horror!
Looks far too French!