100% yes, if Konami is going to keep releasing cool archetypes and retrains that are just not powerful enough to contend with the advanced format meta, then they absolutely should invest into promoting and supporting lower tier "casual" formats
"keep" releasing cool archetypes? You're basically implying that the archetypes they're releasing are cool? Instead of looking at the harsh truth, that they are all a copy and paste, every card searches every card, no soul no nothing, just copy paste, break board, make it again, negate, blablabla snoozefest.
@@Nelex5000 then what do you want it to do suck complete ass gimmics arent fun to play my guy. they feel terrible to play and way to slow. But at the same time i get the sentiment though. it does kinda suck that even for lets say voiceless voice a ritual deck they had to make it decent enough to end on a board of a negate plus search. i feel like that at this point in the game its way to late to be complaining. this issues isnt going to be solved. I want for Konami to please for the love of god give rouge strats viable cards that help the deck raise its sealing and not just give the deck a search. And I mean cards not like 1 good card and 2 literal bulk cards that'll never see play.
As someone who just got back into yugioh last year... I hate to say it but I didn't like the old school event in master duel... it's like I've been dealing with the new craziness going back felt dull almost 😩 like somehow incomplete in a way... idk and I know I'm in the minority but it just didn't feel right to me
What format would that be? How about people who want to play their fun decks simply play those decks with each other. If it's an offical format the top decks will take over and players will then say the format sucks and want another FORMAT
I think the Speed Duel boxes hit a nice casual level of play, its a nice way to teach the game to someone that has no idea about yugioh and it remains slow enough to not scare them away.
One casual format that I have been playing is Domain Format. To be honest, it's the only format that I play, since Advanced is really not my thing anymore; too many combos and the constant need to negate stuff while the duel itself lasts 2 to 3 turns, idk. Domain Format is just commander in yugioh. 60 card pile highlander, you have a deck master, all monsters must be within your deck master's domain. And somehow it works. I've seen people winning with Worms, with Kuriboh, with Fairytail Rella and a lot of equip cards, even with Slifer in a Group Hug deck.
@@Faude18 Both. Monster in your deck must have at least one of attribute, type, archetype, be mentioned by name or specific stat lines mentioned by your Deck Master.
@@KikiCatMeow there's a person in the server with the nickname of "FairyTail - Rella" that only plays decks with Rella. Maybe you could exchange ideas with them lol
for real. the problem is 90% in the super powerful generic omninegates. Every new deck has a few questions to answer but the first is usually "how can I make baronne on my first turn"
and turns aren't 10 minutes because a card searches another card that special summons a thing, which also special summons a thing, then you pull something from the extra deck that...
Does it matter how many turns the game goes for? What matters is both players get a chance to be in the game. If that happens in 2-4 turns or 6-8 it makes little difference.
Same. I started playing YuGiOh a few years ago through Duel Links and stuff was way milder there. When Master Duel was announced, I thought "oh this is like DL but with extra cards, I am so excited!" Boy, was I wrong. People comboing off for days, 2 to 3 turn duels, yeah yeah. DL is also getting into this vibe, so I also stopped that. The only thing that I play now is Domain Format, aka Commander but in Yugioh. Somehow, the rules really work in favor of toning the game down... there are some huge ass combos you can do, sure, but most of the times it doesn't really work in your favor. Against 3 other players, you need to know when to pop off or people will start seeing you as a threat. It's pretty neat and casual, I've seen people winning with Worms, Kuriboh, Ancient Gears, Chaos Ritual.
Something I've noticed while getting back into yugioh with a friend recently is that overly consistent decks and generic extra deck negates ruin the casual feeling. If 9 out of 10 turn ones all end on the same board or something similar to the same board, it removes the excitement of doing a combo. If turn two is just you saying no more times than your opponent can try to say yes, why would they want to play you?
A other problem with yugioh is they love negates lmao. What a bad idea if you think about it. Don't let your opponent play? What kinda card game is that
Yugioh is a competitive game advertised as a casual game. Time wizard formats are a band aid but until yugioh receives its commander styled fun format it is going to continue to bait people in and not have a home for them
Commander styled fun format for Yugioh, where people can still build decks they want (like Melfy, Kuriboh, Worms, FairyTail Rella equip) and still have a fighting change? That reminds me of that Domain Format. Highlander, 60 card deck where all monsters must follow the Deck Master's domain.
@@Binzob In a more competitive format, such as advanced, I agree 100% with you. Even the Melfy example is mentioned in the video. But all the examples I provided came from real decks I faced while playing Domain. The main thing is that (as of currently), it's a more casual format. People just join in and want to build pet or whacky decks such as Dark Magician, Crystal Beast, or Ancient Gears. There are still more powerful decks, such as Branded or Snake-eyes, but these can still play and I've myself seem some wins on their part: Like Commander, there's still a social aspect to it. In a 4 player pod where someone is playing Worms, for example, you said it yourself: people will look at it and think "nah that is terrible, I won't even bother." While they are fighting among themselves and spending resources, the sly worm player slowly perform their plays and steals the win. I have seem this happen multiple times and it's quite funny. They could be easily stop at any time, but if you have to choose whether to use your single raigeki (remember, highlander) on either the Kashtira Player or the Melfy player, which one would you choose? Of course, I am not saying you can just literally just play any deck and stand a chance. If you go full vanilla monster mash, you probably won't get it. Still, it's suprisingly how well they manage to play. I will admit this partly balances on the previously mentioned more casual side to Domain Format. If we were to have more competitive tournaments and people started to min max their decks, they would probably not stand much of a change, unfortunately. But then again, this video is about casual formats.
@@BinzobI can back up Rato’s claims as I’ve experienced some of these first hand. You haven’t seen true terror until you’ve seen a Worm player with a 9+ card hand.
Years ago a friend of mine used to invite me and 2 other friends to his house every Sunday,and we played 4 player Yu-Gi-Oh all day. He had a average sized square table,so each of us where on a side. We followed the current banlist at the time,discussed other certain cards that might seem unbalanced for 4 players,and like Commander it was all about negotiating peace in early game and the person who dealt the first damage basically established when the game got serious. It was a fun way to play and I highly reccomend people to try playing like that!
I bet you and your friends would love Domain Format! It's very commander-esque and played with four people. I make content exclusively on that format, so check it out sometime!
Maybe one MTG format to look into for YGO is Canadian Highlander (CanLander). It functions very similarly to Commander (large decks, singleton), but doesn't include an actual Commander for your deck. It also doesn't have a traditional banlist and instead goes with a Points List. Extremely powerful cards are given a point value and you're only allowed so many points (usually 1 point per 10 cards in your starting deck). Want to play with Pot of Greed or Barrone? Maybe those are 2 points each, and you have very little room for other powerful cards.
I’m gonna have to look into that. I was actually looking into making a commander-esque format for Yu-Gi-Oh myself, but that sounds a lot like what I would’ve come up with. Especially if it is designed for multiplayer pods.
There is something kinda similar right now in Trinity Format which is all highlander, but gives player 1 point for every 5 cards over the deck limit (30 cards) which they can use for a list of half or 1 point cards. However, it also has a summon limit of 3 for effect monsters, so it prolly plays very differently to traditional yugioh
So, somewhat similar to what Duel Links does with their ban lists where all cards that are at Limit 1 can be ran at one as usual *but* you can't include any other cards that are at Limit 1 in your deck, and same for Limit 2 and Limit 3?
@@gabeitches87 It's similar in function to the Duel Links system, but with more granularity. Since everything is Limited via the nature of the format you would only be able to use a Limited 1 list, and I don't think "here's a giant list of cards, you can play exactly one of these" is particularly exciting or fun. The Points List limits how powerful decks/combos can be without being too restrictive.
My locals does a big casual event with a massive banlist. Let me just say, I genuinely believe its the way yugioh was meant to be played. Almost everyone in the room played different decks and the turnout was massive.
oh my god you're so lucky. This sounds like heaven, a massive banlist makes so formats are still unsolved and many rogue decks have their chance to prove their worth.
Show your LGS Domain Format! Its basically the "commander format" theyre talking about, and its taken my LGS by storm. It's insanely fun! I make content on it if you're curious
I've been looking into Domain Format. It's a pretty good "Commander" style of play for Yugioh, I think. You've got a Deck Master, who defines your deck's "domain" with things like its attribute, monster type, and archetype, and a 60-card highlander deck built around said deck master. There's a lot more to it, of course, but that was just off the top of my head. I need to spend more time with it and learn how to build a proper deck, but I think it's promising.
I literarily had THIS Issue, I tried to get my neighbor into Yugioh, he's 25, a Gen Z (never seen any show). We're already 3 matches into practicing and learning Battlin Boxers (you'd think it's an easy a Rank 4 toolbox deck). However I soon realized as a new player he didn't understand opponents decks, classic norms like how, when, and why to use 'Book of Moon', it was all new to him. Literally ygo vocabulary had to be taught, differences in Negate, Destroy, Excavate, Quick Play, down to card activation timing, phases.. This game wont have any longevity unless they resolve these issues for newcomers, its too too much. They need to learn so much and remember this is a "kids game" konami needs to realize the only way kids 8-16 are playing this.. is with hella-misplays because it's not a 'kids game' anymore, the days of summoning a beatsick & pass are long gone.
Yeah, in magic discrepancies like you described are more obvious and easier to understand. For example looking at the top card of your deck, scrying, and surveilling are very similar but each has one key thing to it that makes it unique. Another example is that in yugioh there’s lots of rules about how monsters go to the graveyard, whereas in magic if a creature leaves the battlefield and goes to the grave it has died and anything that references a creature dying is applicable
A game that got me to learn how to play and love buying and trading cards was Yu-Gi-Oh Tag Force Evolution for PlayStation 2. I thought it was the perfect way to introduce new players and give them something like a Pokemon game with many duelists and decks to play while liking the anime characters and plot. If you have a way to play it. It'll be fun for your friend and anyone else.
Those are not issues though. Having to learn the vocabulary and rules of a game you're getting into is expected and normal. YGO has been around for over 2 decades and is known for being a complex game. Obviously you're going to have to catch up to those decades of history and complexity the game has. That's normal for any long-running game. If you get into football you also need to learn a bunch of vocabulary, when how and why to pass the ball, what kind of formations your opponents use, etc. Why would YGO be any different, especially considering it's a text based game? Learning YGO takes time, and it seems you are not willing to accept that, with the way you say you were "already 3 matches in". Sure there is a lot to learn, but you also have plenty time to learn it. Also I would argue that YGO hasn't been a kids game for a long time, and Konami does not pretend it is. They cater to both kids and adults, because they know their player base is a mix of both. You can see this in the way they design archetypes, the target audience for the different anime series, and even marketing directly feeding on old player nostalgia. Also do not underestimate the ability of kids to play YGO. Kids are a whole lot smarter than you think.
@@DaShikuXI I agree with you to a degree, listen to this, I had an ex of 3 yrs, It took me over 3 months to bring her up to speed. And she could only play 3 decks with skill after 1.5 yrs, mind you I've been playing for 10 yrs. The argument of 'it is what it is' catch up is faulty when you realize this is a major turn off for newcomers with no childhood attachment to the IP, You're asking for a lot in the age of short attention spans. And a MAJOR underlying issue with the game is tossing newbie's into the fire w/ months of learning. Not to mention buying an adequate deck requiring a $60 purchase (factoring in sleeves and extra deck) Is this the message and experience we want to convey to new members of the game? Hey drop 60 to not even make top 8 at *locals.* The only solution I see is a new time wizard 2.0 format with only table 500 decks.
Adding to the discussion - in my opinion one of the biggest parts of why Commander is such a great casual format it is because every few months like... 4 to 6 preconstructed "structure decks" of the format come out with relativelly similar strenght to one another (even the ones of previous sets). So if a group of people want to get into the format, they can all afford to buy a premade deck each and have a relativelly balanced match. Meanwhile YuGiOh launches like 3 structure decks an year, and they are usually with gigantic power gaps between one another. If I buy the last yugioh structure deck, the Fire Kings One, and you buy like, IDK, the Sacred Beasts one, we'll have a very unbalanced match. And that gets worse the bigger the gap is - besides not having many options for new players. That's not even getting into how any structure deck, brought once, is incomplete. And no, the two player set is god awful and not at all what we need.
Huge problem that yugioh has no "out of the box" game mode. The first thing a yugioh player must due is build a deck from three singleton products. There is not hey just grab these and play with the mates.
For me they just aren't the same. Speed duels were close but I don't like the skill cards or the smaller field size. I'd rather just play the older videogames.
it's sad that in a game with over 10,000 cards if your not using a selection of few hundred, maybe, you mine as well not be there. Especially since legacy support isn't consistently viable. Also thanks for mentioning Amazoness I tried to play them, was real excited but I had maybe 2-3 games over the course of four weeks I felt like I actual had a point to be there.
Try amazoness in Domain Format! I bet you will have a blast. Domain is like the equivalent of Commander everyone here is talking about. I make content on the format if you wanna see it for yourself!
The game has thousands of archetypes yet only like 4 are even playable. Its such a turn off for new and older players as it punishes care for older decks and it punishes new player as it gives them very low player choice on which deck they wanna play.
The problem being with a domain format Its not officially supported on master duel or duel links, you kinda have to search it out Average dude aint gonna think of doing that instead just jumping straight into 2024 meta yugioh not knowing that random queues are just ycs players testing their decks
This is an excellent video. One of the things I like the most about you guys is that you are not limited to just Yu-Gi-Oh, every one of you enjoys different TCGs and that allows you to have a broader view of the scene. Keep up the good work 👍
An "out of the box" entry point for new players is missing. One of the reasons for commanders success is that you and friends can buy a precon and play the game. You will then start playing casually. Instead if I want to play even speed duels I need to build a deck from at best a singleton structure deck. And where am I going to get deck building advice from? Probably a competitive player.
My friends and I were playing a 4 way pod kinda thing. Still 8000 life points but we played cards from the xyz era and back. A bit more slow paced but thats kinda what we wanted. Games were going for an hour plus.
Show your friends Domain Format! You guys are already half way there. We play four player pods too, singleton with deckmasters. I make content on it if you're curious.
Konami can try formats on Master Duel with minimum investment. I think the solution for Paul's point could be this: 1. GX Format - No Synchro / Tuner, XYZ, Pendulum, Link or cards that mention them. 2. 5D’s Format - No XYZ, Pendulum, Link or cards that mention them. 3. Zexal Format - No Pendulum, Link or cards that mention them. 4. Arc-V Format - No Links or cards that mention them. Also, Konami could double down with Time Wizard Formats in Master Duel, starting with 2004 and 2010
In a similar way, I would also add just singular summoning formats. Like Only Synchro, Only Xyz, Only Fusion, etc. It's not perfect but it's better than nothing.
I think implementing stuff like this in a fun way would be way more complex than this, look at how all the summoning festivals in master duel are unmitigated disasters. Startegies like eldlich, RACE are legal in all of those formats.
I think we can implement a Yugioh Format/ Traditional Format across all archetype decks. Limit certain cards and bann alot of cards that are broken and introduce new cards for those archetypes to complete the deck so that its playable and not hard to ultimately play with. So that the average person can enjoy and new person can learn just like we did back in the day.
I can already see needing to probably ban stuff like link spider and unexpected dai as free specials like that are absurd without commiting to a normal summon
APS: Japan is strict in how they want you to play the game Duel Masters: So we've introduced something similar to commander format, two different styles of sealed format(Chaos sealed and normal sealed) and a SD+10 format (Take 1 starter deck and modify it using any 10 cards as long as the deck still adheres to the current regulation), and they're all official supported side events during our tournaments, also we can help cater to our non-competitive playerbases by helping cardshops hold fan-meets
That's mostly a function of Duel Masters being made since the jump as a collaboration between Takara Tomy and Wizarda of the Coast (the folks who make Magic). In other words, Duel Masters (which i think has been rebranded as Kaijudo) does not suffer from the ideology of how to make and run a card game that affects how Konami makes YGO. Granted, they probably have a host of other problems because they are made by WotC, but that does explain why Kaijudo has casual formats
I agree with Larry have a format that is mid tier deck focussed just something that is less rage inducing otherwise the player base will eventually die out
Getting a new format off the ground would take creators pushing it (and creating it). Remember, formats in Magic are mostly made by the players for the players.
It's possible if your familiar with dueltainers on tiktok they recieved a large following with using their yugiboomer format (custom singleton format up to 5ds era , nothing legal passed syncros) own set of rules and banlist. It's focused on more nostalgia of the anime we grew up on. I've dueled in their discord servers using stuff like dark magicians, blue eyes, exodia and seen others use creativity for their decks. It's brings back that more casual game play and hand traps like ash are banned in their format
When you were talking about only using "mid level cards", it kind of reminded me of Smogon OU, UU, etc. where you keep the most used cards to one tier and the next most used cards to the next tier. Unfortunately, I think there are far too many cards for that to work, and also good removal is going to get snatched up by higher tiers immediately, but thought it was interesting.
Honestly i wish they had Tag Duel championships. I know they come up at side events, but it would be such a blast to have actual Yugioh teams, with two players on the field at the same time, synergizing ans working together. Force people to be a bit more social and interactive 😊😊😊
This^ I said the same thing in my comment for tag duels also make them share a life point pool too so that lp cost is an actual factor and both players on a team need to consider what the other is doing before wasting the only resource yugioh has imagine someone using judgement cutting team LP to under 1k and ruining the partners set skill drain it creates a whole new dynamic
Have you guys heard of Domain Format yet? It's commander in magic but for Yu-Gi-Oh. There's a RUclips channel called yugioh commander. Deck master but with good rules that make sense. -commander is any monster you want (main deck or extra deck monster) -on death returns to command zone -commander tax is 500 LP that compounds -deck is all Singleton cards -monsters in deck must be within commanders domain (shares a type, attribute, archetype, or mentioned in effect) -use any spell/trap you want
Master duel has done this more casual format several times now in the Legends Anthology events, they just need to keep those events permanent with a little more tuned banlist so its not exclusively anime decks, but just a more casual deck environment. I remember that Dark Magician of all decks was Tier 1 for the first event, partly because the structure made it affordable, and partly because the deck was competent in a more casual environment. N/R format is also similar to this, though that format definitely needs a banlist so theres not just clear powerhouse cards. Having either a rotation format to go alongside the advanced format, or having just a separate Legends format with a much more restrictive forbidden limited list to lower the power level of the game, making it feel more anime like or whatever. Speed duel deck boxes are genuinely a great way to play casual yugioh with friends, they are just cowards and refuse to move into the synchro era. If there was a speed duel type format with a more restrictive card list that included more modern decks it would be great. You can leave the skill cards behind so you dont have the Duel Links problem of OP skills that break decks if youre doing more modern cards.
I remember being a kid and genuinely wishing Tag-Dueling would catch on because it had so much potential for group interactivity and new synergies between decks.
Ok as a Pokemon Player I recommend reaching out to someone in Pokemon for a discussion like you had with The Professor and MTG. The truth is Pokemon has been having lots of conversations like this recently with our rotating Standard format sometimes getting tiring, our long term (last 14 years ish) Expanded format being unmaintained and not played anymore (plus we don't get enough reprints to make people able to play it), and our up and coming format is Gym Leader Challenge, based on commander it's 1 type of Pokemon, 1 copy of a card per deck. (still 1v1 though). One thing left out of this discussion is the colour identity restrictions present in commander, no clue how that could map to YGO but it is something. Also, to make a new format doesn't necessarily mean solving all the ban lists and stuff ahead of time, if you made a video showcasing a 4-way free for all where you had tuned the decks to work for that type of game it could create a foundation on which bans and rules patches could be proposed and applied to get an eventual format. The same way the Commander Rules Committee handles specific rules for that format while being independent from WotC.
True, but from what little I know about the game some archetypes wouldn't fit into that restriction. Possibly limiting to 1 type of extra-deck monster could cut down the options? Or just requiring all monsters to share a commonality, but it could be attribute, type, or name element (so "Lightsworn" would permit all monsters that are or reference "Lightsworn"). That seems messy and I don't know enough about the game to really understand the implications one way or the other.
@@Ratchetfan321 the problem with locking it to types and attributes means that some archetypes will just never be able to be played under those rules. My fav deck is Burning Abyss, the main deck monsters are dark fiends and the ED monsters are a mix of dark fairy, light warrior and light fairy monsters. It's not just this one as well, there's Vanquish Soul and Altergeist to mention a couple others.
@arilenn3293 I meant more so maybe making It to where you could only have 2-3 attributes per deck or 3-4 types. Since with magic the most you can have is 1-5 color per commander decks most are 2 or 3 color decks so finding that sweet spot for yugioh could help set limitations so not everyone is running every hand trap mon or extended in their extra for example.
Hi Team APS! Great points about the need for a casual Yugioh format! As a former Yugioh player, playing Commander in Magic has been a real breath of fresh air. And Yugioh has the potential to have something like that too. I know we have the Deckmaster format and even the one that you guys made in previous videos, although there's already a somewhat popular fan-made format called Domain, that fixes the issues from Konami's Deckmaster format. Issues like the harsh lose the duel condition for losing your deckmaster, for example. And having played both Yugioh and MTG Commander, Domain definitely replicates Commander the closest. Similarily to Commander, in order for Domain to take off, it's going to need a HUGE signal boost from the community. And who knows, if it gets big enough, maybe Konami will recognize it one day. Try it out if you get a chance and see if you guys like it!
Domain format is basically the Yu-Gi-Oh equivalent to mtg's commander. It's a fan made format, has a similar deck building restriction, and the average game has 4 players and it's a ton of fun.
To me, Domain format seems like someone just ported over the Commander rules directly without really any thought for if they would translate properly into Yu-Gi-Oh. It doesn't seem particularly well thought-out beyond just "Well, it worked for Magic" to me. I like the idea of a more casual Yugioh format, but I sorta think the best way to do that is just with tiers like Smogon in Pokemon. Though, honestly, I think a better metric than Smogon's usage tiers would maybe be to have tiers where certain staples are banned as you progress down the tiers, and any decks that are particularly degen with those staples banned are also banned. Idk, haven't thought about it much, but tiers seem like a much more reasonable way of adding casual play to Yugioh than stapling on rules for another game.
@@Kevin_Anderson Yes, Domain rules are really similar to Commander. But it is not clear to me where you are trying to get. Are you afraid it's going to be a mess? I can't guarantee you will like if, different people have different tastes, but I can say that me and a lot others have been playing it and having a blast. About your tiering idea, there is already a format like that called "Kuchen Format." I have never played it, so I can't vouch for it, but that is what they promise. Maybe it interests you.
@@RatoRatito I'm not trying to shit on people who like Domain, but to say I don't think it's really the solution that anyone is looking for. I don't think any of the design choices in Domain have any particular relevance to Konami's design of Yugioh, and are instead just adapted directly from Commander and forced to fit a system they don't work as well for. It's lazy thinking from a design standpoint, assuming that because a system works for Magic, it must also be fun and effective for Yugioh. The type and attribute restrictions seem largely arbitrary for Yugioh, which has a limited amount of type-themed support, and gatekeeps certain decks out of important cards, like Water not getting a decent hand trap while Light has Veiler, Psy-Frames, Ogre, and Nibiru and Dark has D.D. Crow, Shifter, Skull Meister, and Bystials. There are enough engines and starters in the game that I would imagine at least some degree of hand traps are relevant even in a Singleton format, especially if they're something like Bystials where they're also extenders. Not to mention Domain doesn't really make restrictions on the Spell and Trap lineup you can run, which doesn't really make sense with the idea of restricted deckbuilding that the limitations on monsters try and enforce. In my opinion, the rules of Domain format don't really make sense for Yu-Gi-Oh card design. I'm not trying to say it would be easy to come up with a better system, and Konami sure as shit hasn't done it with their "deck master" format, but imo Domain is lazy design that just assumes rules that worked for one game will be suited for another. That's not to knock you for enjoying it. I'm sure it's still plenty of fun, but a format like Trinity is better thought-out, in my opinion. I don't agree with overarching gameplay-altering rules like the summon limit, but the point-buy system for cards is a much smarter and more engaging deckbuilding restriction for Yugioh than restricting type and attribute imo. Fan-made formats are difficult to design, so I'm not going to make fun of the people who run Domain format, but I personally don't think the Commander rules are suited for Yugioh.
Commander is a causal format. But Competitve Commander events are a thing and CEDH. The playerbase as a whole is so filled with casuals that it self regulates.
I actually play a format called Domain Format. It's pretty much exactly what everyone here is suggesting. And we definitely have to have a pregame talk about the power levels of our decks. I have videos up of four player games if you wanna check it out!
Enter: Joshua Schmidt's custom banlist format It's so peak Every omninegate, floodgate, circular, link 1, and blowout card is banned. (Also a bunch of insane cards are all nuked or limited) Creates a format where even decks like Penguins are viable.
@@Honest_Mids_Masher name 3 decks that are genuinely made unplayable relative to everything else outside of specifically tear which had to have everything nuked. Literally every other deck is viable or is genuinely horribly unfun to play against and shouldn't be viable in a healthy game (floodgate turbo)
@@nogghorn7080I can do even more than 3. Ghostrick, Synchrons (anime deck made unplayable), Scareclaws, Salamangreat (another made unplayable), Appliancers (another anime unplayable), Slifer the Sky dragon, pure Cyber Angels (Another anime unplayable), World Chalice. You really expect me to take that list seriously when he's banning world chalice cards that aren't generically used?
I think you guys should have a live discussion and brainstorm some ideas for a causal format! My own casual format is actually making yugioh cubes, each made at the end of each era of the game, so we have a DM cube a GX cube and a 5Ds cube, but in order to get people started they have a core list of cards (20-25) to their deck and they go and draft the rest, other cards they need to play their decks are in the draft it's self. The only downside is you don't bring your own cards its self contained.
I don't like commenting and don't very often, but when Paul brought up Solfachord, I had to. It's my favorite deck, I love it to death, and I will play it into Snake-Eyes even if I lose most of the time. I also love pendulum summons (idc what others think). I've been playing with an idea in my mind to help with the casual and competitive divide of this game. It's not one format, but one big format divided in to a bunch of different power levels. Kinda like how boxing has weight classes. Imagine plugging your deck list into Konami's website and it spits back at you a "Deck Power Number". This number calculates how powerful your deck is based on many things like, amount of staples used, what staples used, what archetype you're playing, number of generic boss monsters, etc. Then you can know what other decks you can play against and not get stomped if you're a new player. With these new "Deck Power Numbers", tournaments can have different power level event's. At the top would be the Heavyweights like Snake-Eyes and Branded, but in the middle would be Solfachord and Invoked Shaddoll. At the bottom would be goat decks and weaker archetypes. If Yugioh was broken up like this, you could have weak newer decks like Solfachord play against older decks that were strong for their time play against each other. This would fix the problem with Goat and Edison format that was brought up in the video because you can still play those strategies from those formats, but people who want to play with XYZs or Pendulums can also play as long as their power level is near yours. This idea would bring up a lot of problem with the ban list; also it might be hard to implement if there are too many power levels because local stores may not have enough players of a certain power level to make tournaments, but this is a rough idea and I would love if others gave feedback. This game is really fun when power levels match, but when there are Heavyweights playing against Lightweights then it can be frustrating. I hope this idea can help alleviate that.
Gransolfachord Musecia is curious tech for pends that I still consider adding into my Igknights-powered deck. It synergizes with nearly all of the pend sets that you end up seeing to give a touch of something nice.
@@residentgrey She honestly has some great utility, but if Electromite came back I would take her out of Solfachord. Even in a Solfa deck I don’t find myself summoning her often, but that probably has to do with the fact Solfa wants the same exact scale every time, 1-8 with cutia and Coolia, even though they have a bunch of different scales. Also, they don’t have activated pendulum effects like Igknights do, so trading one for another normally isn’t useful. Having perfectly an odd for an even isn’t always guaranteed either cuz of the number of different scales. She probably is better in Igknights than Solfa cuz everything is pend scale 7 or 2 and since they all share the same pend effect you can reliably trade your hand with your extra deck for a useful effect.
60 card deck 1 copy of any card, unless the cards effect specifically needs other copies of itself (ie:Bubonic Vermin) An Extra deck monster is your Deck Master, this number counts to your extra deck limit. Extra deck is limited to 10.
holy shit you have no idea how crazy it is to me that you mention bubonic vermin of all cards as the exception xD I recently built a fun goat format deck with only 1 copy per card, except bubonic vermin which i play 3!
For the love of all that is good, yes, there needs to be a casual format. MonkeyFightTCG has literally gone through every Yugioh archetype and ranked them by power levels based on which variation of the deck you're playing. Doing that sort of ranking helps keeps deck in line with each other. Konami needs to attempt to do something like that though, albeit, it will be a trial and error approach.
Switch turns into moves : you do one thing, i do one thing... Maybe you can keep the stack and all these things, but playing a spell, or activate an effect, or draw a card is a move... It was just an idea...
This is why i only collect yugioh and not play in the meat grinder that is yugioh atm if there was a officially recognised and supported casual format like your saying id play the shit out of it
It doesn't even need to be officially recognized. As a magic player, trust me, Commander was more fun before WotC realized they could make money off it.
I got some ideas for a casual Yu-Gi-Oh format. Everything at 1 (obviously), ban some crazy cards, up the deck count to 50-60, same life point count, Limit the extra deck to 5 or 8 cards (could help curve the craziness) and have a deck master that costs life points to summon depending on how many stars it has. Any thoughts?
Me and my friends have been playing the domain format and man its fun. Its basically commander in yu gi oh. Not many people talk about And it would be cool if u guys did a video of it! And have a duel for a video
I've been saying this for years. Highlander Format (No more than 1 copy of any card), with a perma Banlist. This actually makes duels fun and you can get creative, and it makes anime decks viable if you're into that too.
We actually have been doing a 4 man pod style of Yu-Gi-Oh. Go clock wise, 4 emz, first three don't draw or attack turn 1. It's one of our little casual party things. You should give it a try.
To piggyback off of what Larry suggested about a Highlander style format, you can have your own "boss" monster for a specific deck that cam only be summoned the traditional way ( star level tribute requirements, summoning mechanic, extra deck requirements, etc) one time. Then, to resummon the monster you have to play LP in increased incremental amounts on top of whatever it requires to summon that card.
Yugioh needs more official formats in general. The fact that you can't do tag duels or a battle royale style formats even though it has been done multiples times in the anime is disapointng and frustrating
I was thinking about the static card pool in GOAT, bc while not in the format Fencing Fire Ferret fits in just fine. Maybe looking to Magic's Pauper would help, limiting card inclusion by rarity (or number of each card by rarity) would auto limit some combos. Idk
These formats with a set number of cards is awesome. If u get 2 playsets of all the cards u and a friend can play any decks u want vs each other till the end of time. No worries
I feel like you guys really did a good job covering the sentiments of most people who want to come back to playing Yu-Gi-Oh for fun. Including how their competitors are much more casual friendly and that is truly hurting Yu-Gi-Oh. Myself I stopped playing Yu-Gi-Oh awhile back, but poke my head in to see if the game solved any of these issues, and the answer has always still been no. I wish their was something more casual and substantial, because I would definitely be back in if they did.
I draw a card, set two cards face down, and summon a monster in attack mode. End my turn. Opponent draws, sets Two cards face down, summons stronger monster than me, attacks, I use sak armor. Monster is dead. Opponent activates mystical space typhoon on my last card. Ends turn. Easy. No books, cell phones, or homework needed to entertain yourself while the opposing player takes a two hour turn.
Exactly it isn’t even fun. Especially when you’re watching your opponent spend 5-7 minutes to summon out 5 high level monsters in one turn to negate your entire board. There’s no fun in that.
that was peak yugioh days. actual limitations and straight forward card design with no insanely fleshed out archetypes all over the place. I've said this before but archetypes becoming the designspace for yugioh killed the game.
The problem trying to make a "commander" style format to yugioh is that it was high ranking mtg judges that built themselves a format for them to play after they were done giving up their competitive play time for everyone else. Wizards brought it in house when they realized they were leaving money on the table. To get the format someone has to build it and prove the concept first. The base rules of yugioh really arent designed on a resource system and at this point most archetypes consider them more of a suggestion vs a hard rule.
Unfortunately, I think that if players want this, they're going to have to start by organizing things themselves and showing Konami there is money in it. That's what makes Konami do anything. From their perspective, the cards to play something like GOAT format already exist out there, and they made it even easier from their point of view by rereleasing the first six sets. At this point, we're going to need to make unofficial GOAT events through Master Duel or otherwise to increase public interest. On a positive note, I do think the Master Duel event that recently occurred wherein you could only use the OCG cards available in 2004 is a sign that Konami is testing the amount of interest in such a format. Hopefully that event was popular enough to show them that the fans would like a more casual format such as that.
I love this channel because you take me back to when Yu-Gi-Oh! was fun. Thank you for taking the time to have this conversation. As someone who stopped seriously playing when Xyz came out, and nearly stopped playing at all with Pendulums, I agree that something has to be done to promote casual gameplay. My fervent wish is that Konami goes back to the drawing board and figures out how to simplify and slow down the game to make it more accessible, whether that is a side format or the main format. And while I have crazy ideas on how to do that (ex. set a required minimum of Normal Monsters), I’m honestly not sure what would actually work to positively impact the game instead of just create new fiascos like when Link Monsters were first introduced and you could only summon Fusion, Xyz, and Synchro to the Extra Monster Zone OR to a zone Link Monsters pointed to.
An interesting rule would be that you’re only allowed to Special Summon 1 monster from the Extra Deck once per turn. Like 90% of my Duels on Master Duels are my Opponent showing off their Extra Deck.
Love that we’re having this conversation, I collected cards as a kid and only very recently did I start collecting cards again with the hope of being able to play and holy hell is modern yugioh daunting. I have no idea what people are talking about with all the names of these meta decks and whatnot. I like the chill slow paced version of the game where it feels like you can make an error in your strategy and it doesn’t automatically result in your defeat. Also watching people do all this insane summoning for like 5 minutes straight turn one is so over the top
I've been experimenting with a way of playing Yugioh that has so far, been working fairly well with creating the play experience that I and a lot of people are looking for. It's still big and bombastic with lots of chains and summons, but you aren't having one-sided beatdowns that end on turn 2, games have a lot of interaction, go for multiple turns and can often be VERY close fights.
I 100% agree. There was always a competitive scene in yugioh in the early days. But the competitive scene isnt what made EVERY kid in the schoolyard no matter who you were (even girls) have atleast one deck in their backpack in the early 2000s. It was the artstyle, the attitude, the relatabilty to the characters in the show, the ancient mystery in the show with the cards themselves being clues and connections to those mystery's, the rock style music, the collectibles and memorabilia, and just the pure casual fun of getting a big group together to play 2v2 or 3v3 etc. That is what made yugioh a cultural phenomenon. And today it's just missing. Its been missing once they started getting rid of all of those elements, the first element that left was the character relatability and ancient mystery feel. Then competition mindset set in... the artstyle changed .. the rest is history. Its why i think Speed Duels is onto something here! Not Rush Duel because none of the characters are relatable and the artstyle is different enough not feel relatable to casual old players or even casual new players But if you can somehow blend goat format with speed duel.. i think we can be onto something !
Speed duel should be officially supported, maybe a whole new app separated from Duel Links with Speed Duel Codes to claim digital product.. It's not being focused and suffered going downfall on sales lately 😢
If a casual format were to be made I would say add a bit of player immersion to it. Say pick a theme like for me six samurai, make it a singleton format and only allow 3 copies of only one spell,trap, monster card as an exception for deck building. As for the name of the format maybe Duelist Lords format.
Dungeon Dice Monsters how it was represented in the TV show, with those limited rules, limited set or style of cards(Vanilla high ATK and/Defense Stats). Emphasis on less of the hand trap, or my boss monster has infinite negates built in and comes out turn one. 👍
Kingdom Format = just archetypes that came out in Duelist Kingdom/Battle City. And decks are archetype-locked. Meaning, you cant use generic supports or generic boss monsters. That leaves us modern and classic cards that can make Dark Magician, Blue-Eyes, Red-Eyes, Harpie Lady, Machine King, Legendary Fisherman, Great Moth/Insect, Gate Guardian, Exodia, Flame Swordsman, Summoned Skull/Archfiend, PuMpking/Bonez, Panik (if that ever gets retrains or support), Toons, Relinquished/Restrict, Gaia the Fierce Knight, Black Luster Soldier, Battleguards, Gravekeepers, Dark Necrofear/Dark Sanctuary, Egyptian Gods, Penguins, ABC-VWXYZ, Magnet Warrirors, King Queen and Jack Knights, Amazoness.
@@Recchi91 because that is what separates yugioh from other card games. if you hate special summoning, yugioh isnt for you and you should go play other card games.
I feel like this would have been the solution years ago before things got out of hand in part of konami, just like they added the tribute system etc. They could have future proof or limited with the rules.
@@manleyfgc7981You're gatekeeping a dying card game. Adding a SEPARATE format to the game with different rules doesn't effect your current game format lol. Why would you want to encourage people to play other games, when they want to engage with YGO?
What people really want imo is an "anime" format, where every archetype as an identity gets to do is cool thing at least once a duel and create a dramatic back and forth scenario. This might tie back in to that extra deck video you guys made in the past.
Yep. Casuals are pushed out of modern Yugioh which hurts the card game all around. Whether it's getting newer players interested or keeping older players invested. The casual scene makes up a good chunk of Yugioh's playerbase but Konami has failed casuals on all fronts in favor of meta players.
If Konami doesn't do it. Maybe to start things off there is no other choice to create a new format ourselves! And regarding the banlist: The community doesn't have to agree imo, we all are different that is human nature. I think it would be worth a try to have a banlist that is voted by the community, but only with verified accounts. The banlist alone would change a format, even if not so many new cards get added. I also liked the idea of having formats matching each era of Yugioh. Classic/Duelmonsters; GX; 5Ds; etc.. Would love to hear your thoughts :)
Casual is not really a game type, rather it's a mindset. No matter how a game is built you will always have the "Spike" player type wanting to play whatever wins the most consistantly. Something Like speed duel is a product designed to be more beginner friendly, yet competitive players have discovered broken interactions and even speed duel has it's own banlist.
Exactly this. Commander can exist as a casual format because the people who play it largely agree it's meant to be casual. Yes there are differences in opinion about what is and isn't casual, but people have to agree on the goals of the format. Commander can be just as competitive as any other, that's why cedh exists.
true but that doesnt mean Konami shouldnt try (not that they didnt). I think just the community's mentality can harm the experience of whatever format. Like when we got info about new formats one of the formats was called deck master. people immediately said it sucked without playing it. only one youtuber tried to do a casual duel duel with the rules other people just went "last soldier lol". Also although its not a official format check one of the progression series episodes where cimo makes a illegal move comments just scream blood and accusing him of cheating.
We tried so many casual tourneys at our locals like drafting, structure deck only, only rogue decks and whatnot. There was never much of a demand. At multiple cardshops. It is just how it is and it seems there's not enough people willing to engage in casual yugi gaming
Thing about the group of 4 commander (which is more like 3-6 in my experience) is if someone has a faster/stronger deck, they often become the target of the group. And Konami could totally sell reprints of older cards, various ways to do it, but there is a source of profit there. The card design people may even be interested in getting to play in slow design space and print new cards into that old format, which seems self-defeating, but, could make it easier for them to justify it.
I could see "Kingdom" format being a singleton format where you'd use skill cards (either existing or newly introduced ones) in place of a commander mechanic, rather than needing a new card type. That paired with a bunch of the DM era archetypes and their new support. So maybe like a higher power speed duel card pool, we don't want the long combo turns but being able to whip out stuff like Ultimate Flame Swordsman or the BLS retrains- would be cool to give some of those cards a home other than "rogue deck that gets bodied at locals".
"We're gonna be playing casual Yugioh, but we're not going to be using archetypes, no Ritual, Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, Pendulum or Link monsters, no cards with a paragraph of card effects, no draw cards, no equip cards, no quick play cards, no field spells, no continuous cards, no counter traps, no monsters with over 2000 ATK/DEF, and no effect monsters - trust me, it's super fun!"
Okay now go checkout Domain Format where nothing is banned, but the format is still balanced due to there being 4 players per game that can 3v1 the problem guy😎
Modern yugioh at singleton has been fun actually with friend's, regardless of archetype the matches have been fair and fun and over all it brings us out the competitive side, you don't have consistent decks you tend to hold onto resources
It's so easy to hop in, play and especially getting new people in. I think commander is easy because there are typically 3-4 players. If someone is getting too strong it's not like it's just you having to fight them, it can be you and 2-3 people fighting back against he person winning to even things out. Politicking, make alliances and agreements allow it to be way more enjoyable. BUT if you want to be try hard you can take it as competitive as you want to be with your group.
@@YuriBo26 It being super social makes it a lot better because sometimes people aren't sure about an interaction and nobody in our pod minds asking/clarifying if they know. 'Made a mistake, it's alright take it back'. Winning, at least in the groups I play with is secondary compared to just having a fun time kind of like a board game.
That was the best part of cardgames tho, that you could just play with whoever and become friends. Its kinda hard when you need hundreds of dollars just to be relatively on the same level as everyone else.
More like a thousand. Konami been inflating the fck out of the important meta cards. Konami only cares about 1 thing and it’s money. They don’t give a crap about fixing the game or making it so that meta decks become more affordable. You’d be better off playing something else.
Yes playing with friends and actually having fun. Not having your opponent pull off a 5-7 minute infinite combo to set up a board to negate all your plays. There’s no fun in that, and this is why new players are scared to play because the skill gap and insane power creep, along with the busted combos some of these decks have. New players will get chewed up and spit out.
I think a big issue is that its not just commander. You can draft mtg and people like it and game shops make money off of it..... there is no supported sealed format. Shops need to get behind things as much as platters so
I’ve been working on a kinda PVE format for yogioh that revolves around playing against a deck that that is able to play it’s self and it’s up to 3 player vs one deck.
Would the Duel Links card limit pools solve some of this??? I like variety too but I love the ingenious use of card tech. How do we preserve that while also busting archetype dominance?
My buddy and I made a game mode where it involves teams of two. Both teams have one FUSION boss monster and each player has half of the summoning recipe for the boss monster like Dragon Master Knight. The thing is you have to use poly to get out the boss and if it dies it goes back to the boss zone and the summoning recipe goes back to the extra deck. We had fun with this play style. In order to win your last hit has to be from the boss monster.
Hi! I sent you this on Twitter a while back but I came up with something close to a combination of deck master and commander (something I’ve been playing a lot recently with my friends) I tried my best to come up with a ruleset that felt better to build around based on things I’ve learned from commander as a way to offer alternatives. I would love to know your opinion on it if you ever have the chance because I’ve watched your discussions around more casual games and watched your videos trying weird things like this. I apologize in advance if the English is a bit off, it’s not my first language. The rules are as follows: - You can only have one deck master. It must either be a level 5 or higher monster or an extra deck monster. You can’t have any copies in your deck of that card outside of the deck master. (This is to minimize the chances of people choosing their one card starter as their deck master although I understand there are some exceptions that would require special rules around) -You can only include cards in your deck and extradeck that: @share an archetype with your deck master, @mentions in its text the archetype or name of your deck master (this mention can’t be to exempt the monster from the card) @that share Type with it in case of monsters @that mentions the type or attribute of the deck master in its text in case of spells/traps -Your deck master is always considered to be in your hand for card effects if it’s a main deck monster while in the deck master zone. -you can only normal/special summon your deck master from the deck master zone once per turn. -once per turn, during the end step, except the turn it was summoned, you can return your deck master to the deck master zone from anywhere. -For your effects only, you can consider your deck master in your extra deck as long as it is in the deck master zone. -After the first time your deck master gets summoned, you must banish 1 card from your hand or field face down every time you summon it from the deck master zone. Every time you would summon your deck master from the deck master zone, the cost is incrementally increased by 1.
As someone who is in the same boat having switched so largely to mtg commander over yugioh I can say game pace is the largest culprit. A format that limited special summoning would be a huge start in the right direction but, just like commander format, a unique ban lost would still be required, and likely different from the current formats list. Also singleton with larger deck and possibly smaller extra deck(like 5 max) would help immensely to slow the game down while offering more variance in gameplay which is also a huge draw of commander format
I agree with this so much! Me and my friends keep trying to set up houserules for casual decks, but having more specific balancing rules for a casual format AND accessible products to support it would be the dream. Living in a global south country I can say most yugioh products usually feel like a big asking price for someone who just wants to "try it out", so it HAS to be accessible. Also Kindgom Format sounds like a great name, get on it Konami!!
100% yes, if Konami is going to keep releasing cool archetypes and retrains that are just not powerful enough to contend with the advanced format meta, then they absolutely should invest into promoting and supporting lower tier "casual" formats
"keep" releasing cool archetypes?
You're basically implying that the archetypes they're releasing are cool?
Instead of looking at the harsh truth, that they are all a copy and paste, every card searches every card, no soul no nothing, just copy paste, break board, make it again, negate, blablabla
snoozefest.
@@Nelex5000 then what do you want it to do suck complete ass gimmics arent fun to play my guy. they feel terrible to play and way to slow. But at the same time i get the sentiment though. it does kinda suck that even for lets say voiceless voice a ritual deck they had to make it decent enough to end on a board of a negate plus search. i feel like that at this point in the game its way to late to be complaining. this issues isnt going to be solved. I want for Konami to please for the love of god give rouge strats viable cards that help the deck raise its sealing and not just give the deck a search. And I mean cards not like 1 good card and 2 literal bulk cards that'll never see play.
As someone who just got back into yugioh last year... I hate to say it but I didn't like the old school event in master duel... it's like I've been dealing with the new craziness going back felt dull almost 😩 like somehow incomplete in a way... idk and I know I'm in the minority but it just didn't feel right to me
Yessss
@@spookyoreos1134 way too slow becaysw they dont summon 29 monsters in 1 turn and have 5 negates all with 1 card combos. great argument
This is a conversation that needs to be had. These mid level decks are super fun and cool and need their own format.
What format would that be? How about people who want to play their fun decks simply play those decks with each other. If it's an offical format the top decks will take over and players will then say the format sucks and want another FORMAT
I think the Speed Duel boxes hit a nice casual level of play, its a nice way to teach the game to someone that has no idea about yugioh and it remains slow enough to not scare them away.
One casual format that I have been playing is Domain Format.
To be honest, it's the only format that I play, since Advanced is really not my thing anymore; too many combos and the constant need to negate stuff while the duel itself lasts 2 to 3 turns, idk.
Domain Format is just commander in yugioh. 60 card pile highlander, you have a deck master, all monsters must be within your deck master's domain.
And somehow it works. I've seen people winning with Worms, with Kuriboh, with Fairytail Rella and a lot of equip cards, even with Slifer in a Group Hug deck.
Domain as in their Earth/Fire/Light/Dark/etc Attribute or is it the Fiend/Sorcerer and so on?
@@Faude18 Both.
Monster in your deck must have at least one of attribute, type, archetype, be mentioned by name or specific stat lines mentioned by your Deck Master.
Maybe my pure Fairy Tail deck could finally find a way to play with that format 😭
@@KikiCatMeow there's a person in the server with the nickname of "FairyTail - Rella" that only plays decks with Rella.
Maybe you could exchange ideas with them lol
Look up Domain format. While it isn't an official format, it's creators have put a lot of thought and care into making the rules work
Domain mention!! LETSGOO
I just started diving into this! It's such a cool idea for a format!
I wanna go back to a point where it's normal for a duel to last more than 2 turns...
for real. the problem is 90% in the super powerful generic omninegates. Every new deck has a few questions to answer but the first is usually "how can I make baronne on my first turn"
and turns aren't 10 minutes because a card searches another card that special summons a thing, which also special summons a thing, then you pull something from the extra deck that...
Does it matter how many turns the game goes for? What matters is both players get a chance to be in the game. If that happens in 2-4 turns or 6-8 it makes little difference.
Same.
I started playing YuGiOh a few years ago through Duel Links and stuff was way milder there. When Master Duel was announced, I thought "oh this is like DL but with extra cards, I am so excited!" Boy, was I wrong. People comboing off for days, 2 to 3 turn duels, yeah yeah. DL is also getting into this vibe, so I also stopped that.
The only thing that I play now is Domain Format, aka Commander but in Yugioh. Somehow, the rules really work in favor of toning the game down... there are some huge ass combos you can do, sure, but most of the times it doesn't really work in your favor. Against 3 other players, you need to know when to pop off or people will start seeing you as a threat.
It's pretty neat and casual, I've seen people winning with Worms, Kuriboh, Ancient Gears, Chaos Ritual.
You got a this wish granted by a monkey paw. The Snake-eyes mirror lasts multiple turns because we keep shutting eachother down with handtraps lmao
Something I've noticed while getting back into yugioh with a friend recently is that overly consistent decks and generic extra deck negates ruin the casual feeling. If 9 out of 10 turn ones all end on the same board or something similar to the same board, it removes the excitement of doing a combo. If turn two is just you saying no more times than your opponent can try to say yes, why would they want to play you?
A other problem with yugioh is they love negates lmao. What a bad idea if you think about it. Don't let your opponent play? What kinda card game is that
@@DarkmagecurtSolitaire!
Yugioh is a competitive game advertised as a casual game. Time wizard formats are a band aid but until yugioh receives its commander styled fun format it is going to continue to bait people in and not have a home for them
Commander styled fun format for Yugioh, where people can still build decks they want (like Melfy, Kuriboh, Worms, FairyTail Rella equip) and still have a fighting change?
That reminds me of that Domain Format. Highlander, 60 card deck where all monsters must follow the Deck Master's domain.
@@RatoRatito I think you're underestimating just how terrible some of those decks are.
@@Binzob In a more competitive format, such as advanced, I agree 100% with you. Even the Melfy example is mentioned in the video.
But all the examples I provided came from real decks I faced while playing Domain.
The main thing is that (as of currently), it's a more casual format. People just join in and want to build pet or whacky decks such as Dark Magician, Crystal Beast, or Ancient Gears. There are still more powerful decks, such as Branded or Snake-eyes, but these can still play and I've myself seem some wins on their part:
Like Commander, there's still a social aspect to it. In a 4 player pod where someone is playing Worms, for example, you said it yourself: people will look at it and think "nah that is terrible, I won't even bother." While they are fighting among themselves and spending resources, the sly worm player slowly perform their plays and steals the win. I have seem this happen multiple times and it's quite funny. They could be easily stop at any time, but if you have to choose whether to use your single raigeki (remember, highlander) on either the Kashtira Player or the Melfy player, which one would you choose?
Of course, I am not saying you can just literally just play any deck and stand a chance. If you go full vanilla monster mash, you probably won't get it. Still, it's suprisingly how well they manage to play.
I will admit this partly balances on the previously mentioned more casual side to Domain Format. If we were to have more competitive tournaments and people started to min max their decks, they would probably not stand much of a change, unfortunately. But then again, this video is about casual formats.
@@BinzobI can back up Rato’s claims as I’ve experienced some of these first hand. You haven’t seen true terror until you’ve seen a Worm player with a 9+ card hand.
@@Binzob Literally the point is that they're not good.
Years ago a friend of mine used to invite me and 2 other friends to his house every Sunday,and we played 4 player Yu-Gi-Oh all day. He had a average sized square table,so each of us where on a side. We followed the current banlist at the time,discussed other certain cards that might seem unbalanced for 4 players,and like Commander it was all about negotiating peace in early game and the person who dealt the first damage basically established when the game got serious. It was a fun way to play and I highly reccomend people to try playing like that!
I bet you and your friends would love Domain Format! It's very commander-esque and played with four people. I make content exclusively on that format, so check it out sometime!
@@yugiohcommander I'll have to check it out! Sounds awesome!
Maybe one MTG format to look into for YGO is Canadian Highlander (CanLander). It functions very similarly to Commander (large decks, singleton), but doesn't include an actual Commander for your deck. It also doesn't have a traditional banlist and instead goes with a Points List. Extremely powerful cards are given a point value and you're only allowed so many points (usually 1 point per 10 cards in your starting deck). Want to play with Pot of Greed or Barrone? Maybe those are 2 points each, and you have very little room for other powerful cards.
I’m gonna have to look into that. I was actually looking into making a commander-esque format for Yu-Gi-Oh myself, but that sounds a lot like what I would’ve come up with. Especially if it is designed for multiplayer pods.
@@jonathanfaulkner878I'm ironing out a commander format for Pokemon tcg but at least I have a idea how to use the commander part
There is something kinda similar right now in Trinity Format which is all highlander, but gives player 1 point for every 5 cards over the deck limit (30 cards) which they can use for a list of half or 1 point cards. However, it also has a summon limit of 3 for effect monsters, so it prolly plays very differently to traditional yugioh
So, somewhat similar to what Duel Links does with their ban lists where all cards that are at Limit 1 can be ran at one as usual *but* you can't include any other cards that are at Limit 1 in your deck, and same for Limit 2 and Limit 3?
@@gabeitches87 It's similar in function to the Duel Links system, but with more granularity. Since everything is Limited via the nature of the format you would only be able to use a Limited 1 list, and I don't think "here's a giant list of cards, you can play exactly one of these" is particularly exciting or fun. The Points List limits how powerful decks/combos can be without being too restrictive.
My locals does a big casual event with a massive banlist. Let me just say, I genuinely believe its the way yugioh was meant to be played. Almost everyone in the room played different decks and the turnout was massive.
oh my god you're so lucky. This sounds like heaven, a massive banlist makes so formats are still unsolved and many rogue decks have their chance to prove their worth.
eww
Dude yes me and my friends do this all the time and it’s fun af
Dude that sounds so fun! I feel like it could really give a lot of pet decks a time to shine
Show your LGS Domain Format! Its basically the "commander format" theyre talking about, and its taken my LGS by storm. It's insanely fun! I make content on it if you're curious
I've been looking into Domain Format. It's a pretty good "Commander" style of play for Yugioh, I think. You've got a Deck Master, who defines your deck's "domain" with things like its attribute, monster type, and archetype, and a 60-card highlander deck built around said deck master. There's a lot more to it, of course, but that was just off the top of my head. I need to spend more time with it and learn how to build a proper deck, but I think it's promising.
I literarily had THIS Issue, I tried to get my neighbor into Yugioh, he's 25, a Gen Z (never seen any show). We're already 3 matches into practicing and learning Battlin Boxers (you'd think it's an easy a Rank 4 toolbox deck). However I soon realized as a new player he didn't understand opponents decks, classic norms like how, when, and why to use 'Book of Moon', it was all new to him. Literally ygo vocabulary had to be taught, differences in Negate, Destroy, Excavate, Quick Play, down to card activation timing, phases.. This game wont have any longevity unless they resolve these issues for newcomers, its too too much. They need to learn so much and remember this is a "kids game" konami needs to realize the only way kids 8-16 are playing this.. is with hella-misplays because it's not a 'kids game' anymore, the days of summoning a beatsick & pass are long gone.
Yeah, in magic discrepancies like you described are more obvious and easier to understand. For example looking at the top card of your deck, scrying, and surveilling are very similar but each has one key thing to it that makes it unique. Another example is that in yugioh there’s lots of rules about how monsters go to the graveyard, whereas in magic if a creature leaves the battlefield and goes to the grave it has died and anything that references a creature dying is applicable
A game that got me to learn how to play and love buying and trading cards was Yu-Gi-Oh Tag Force Evolution for PlayStation 2. I thought it was the perfect way to introduce new players and give them something like a Pokemon game with many duelists and decks to play while liking the anime characters and plot. If you have a way to play it. It'll be fun for your friend and anyone else.
Those are not issues though. Having to learn the vocabulary and rules of a game you're getting into is expected and normal. YGO has been around for over 2 decades and is known for being a complex game. Obviously you're going to have to catch up to those decades of history and complexity the game has. That's normal for any long-running game.
If you get into football you also need to learn a bunch of vocabulary, when how and why to pass the ball, what kind of formations your opponents use, etc. Why would YGO be any different, especially considering it's a text based game?
Learning YGO takes time, and it seems you are not willing to accept that, with the way you say you were "already 3 matches in". Sure there is a lot to learn, but you also have plenty time to learn it.
Also I would argue that YGO hasn't been a kids game for a long time, and Konami does not pretend it is. They cater to both kids and adults, because they know their player base is a mix of both. You can see this in the way they design archetypes, the target audience for the different anime series, and even marketing directly feeding on old player nostalgia.
Also do not underestimate the ability of kids to play YGO. Kids are a whole lot smarter than you think.
Konami wants your money eff them kids I quited years ago
@@DaShikuXI I agree with you to a degree, listen to this, I had an ex of 3 yrs, It took me over 3 months to bring her up to speed. And she could only play 3 decks with skill after 1.5 yrs, mind you I've been playing for 10 yrs.
The argument of 'it is what it is' catch up is faulty when you realize this is a major turn off for newcomers with no childhood attachment to the IP, You're asking for a lot in the age of short attention spans.
And a MAJOR underlying issue with the game is tossing newbie's into the fire w/ months of learning.
Not to mention buying an adequate deck requiring a $60 purchase (factoring in sleeves and extra deck)
Is this the message and experience we want to convey to new members of the game? Hey drop 60 to not even make top 8 at *locals.*
The only solution I see is a new
time wizard 2.0 format with only table 500 decks.
the shade at Komani when he said "can I cuss?" then said "damn" lmao
Adding to the discussion - in my opinion one of the biggest parts of why Commander is such a great casual format it is because every few months like... 4 to 6 preconstructed "structure decks" of the format come out with relativelly similar strenght to one another (even the ones of previous sets). So if a group of people want to get into the format, they can all afford to buy a premade deck each and have a relativelly balanced match.
Meanwhile YuGiOh launches like 3 structure decks an year, and they are usually with gigantic power gaps between one another. If I buy the last yugioh structure deck, the Fire Kings One, and you buy like, IDK, the Sacred Beasts one, we'll have a very unbalanced match. And that gets worse the bigger the gap is - besides not having many options for new players. That's not even getting into how any structure deck, brought once, is incomplete. And no, the two player set is god awful and not at all what we need.
Huge problem that yugioh has no "out of the box" game mode. The first thing a yugioh player must due is build a deck from three singleton products. There is not hey just grab these and play with the mates.
there is domain format which is pretty much commander yugioh 60 card deck everything on 1 you got your deck master that you always have access to.
💯
Speed Duels and Duel Links are great for me as casual player. Duel links gives Rush too and a ladder if i want more competitive games.
For me they just aren't the same. Speed duels were close but I don't like the skill cards or the smaller field size. I'd rather just play the older videogames.
it's sad that in a game with over 10,000 cards if your not using a selection of few hundred, maybe, you mine as well not be there. Especially since legacy support isn't consistently viable.
Also thanks for mentioning Amazoness I tried to play them, was real excited but I had maybe 2-3 games over the course of four weeks I felt like I actual had a point to be there.
Konami about the dollar signs new cards will always be super op. Game fun but bad company
Try amazoness in Domain Format! I bet you will have a blast. Domain is like the equivalent of Commander everyone here is talking about. I make content on the format if you wanna see it for yourself!
The game has thousands of archetypes yet only like 4 are even playable.
Its such a turn off for new and older players as it punishes care for older decks and it punishes new player as it gives them very low player choice on which deck they wanna play.
The problem being with a domain format
Its not officially supported on master duel or duel links, you kinda have to search it out
Average dude aint gonna think of doing that instead just jumping straight into 2024 meta yugioh not knowing that random queues are just ycs players testing their decks
_Let's all sit down for a Yu-Gi-Oh pod, huh?_
This is an excellent video. One of the things I like the most about you guys is that you are not limited to just Yu-Gi-Oh, every one of you enjoys different TCGs and that allows you to have a broader view of the scene. Keep up the good work 👍
Konami could make a barrier statue format because they already made a rivalry of the warlords format
Pls, three way pod
An "out of the box" entry point for new players is missing. One of the reasons for commanders success is that you and friends can buy a precon and play the game. You will then start playing casually. Instead if I want to play even speed duels I need to build a deck from at best a singleton structure deck. And where am I going to get deck building advice from? Probably a competitive player.
Have you guys tried Domain? It literally sounds like what you are looking for
There's a player made format called Domain format that's like the MTG commander format with 4 players and its pretty fun to play.
truth
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DOMAIN MENTION!!
@@yugiohcommander lol I'm in ur discord. I gotta hop on to play a match this week.
Some people mentioned something called Domain Format. I looked into it and it seems to be pretty interesting
My friends and I were playing a 4 way pod kinda thing. Still 8000 life points but we played cards from the xyz era and back. A bit more slow paced but thats kinda what we wanted. Games were going for an hour plus.
Show your friends Domain Format! You guys are already half way there. We play four player pods too, singleton with deckmasters. I make content on it if you're curious.
I'm having a blast playing Domain format tbh
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One of the format elders right here!
Konami can try formats on Master Duel with minimum investment.
I think the solution for Paul's point could be this:
1. GX Format - No Synchro / Tuner, XYZ, Pendulum, Link or cards that mention them.
2. 5D’s Format - No XYZ, Pendulum, Link or cards that mention them.
3. Zexal Format - No Pendulum, Link or cards that mention them.
4. Arc-V Format - No Links or cards that mention them.
Also, Konami could double down with Time Wizard Formats in Master Duel, starting with 2004 and 2010
In a similar way, I would also add just singular summoning formats. Like Only Synchro, Only Xyz, Only Fusion, etc. It's not perfect but it's better than nothing.
I think implementing stuff like this in a fun way would be way more complex than this, look at how all the summoning festivals in master duel are unmitigated disasters. Startegies like eldlich, RACE are legal in all of those formats.
I think we can implement a Yugioh Format/ Traditional Format across all archetype decks. Limit certain cards and bann alot of cards that are broken and introduce new cards for those archetypes to complete the deck so that its playable and not hard to ultimately play with. So that the average person can enjoy and new person can learn just like we did back in the day.
Exactly Konami made the perfect place to experiment with a more casual type format. Its just a matter of will they take the time to do so.
How are they going to scam people out of money if these players may only need one deck for the format
I think its time for you guys to give Yu-Gi-Oh Domain format some recognition. I doubt none of you have ever heard of it.
❤❤❤ We appreciate this ❤❤❤
To be fair I hadn't until this comment section.
I'll be honest, haven't heard about it til just now. Spread the word!
Never heard of it till now
40 Card Singleton, 10 Vanillas, 10 non-vanilla monsters, 10 spells, 10 traps. (Plus your extra deck)
With a player run ban list if need be.
That would be super fun actually, vanillas would slower the power (except for Loci Sunseed)
@@duyknguyen that was my thought process. I need to try this out sometime
I can already see needing to probably ban stuff like link spider and unexpected dai as free specials like that are absurd without commiting to a normal summon
APS: Japan is strict in how they want you to play the game
Duel Masters: So we've introduced something similar to commander format, two different styles of sealed format(Chaos sealed and normal sealed) and a SD+10 format (Take 1 starter deck and modify it using any 10 cards as long as the deck still adheres to the current regulation), and they're all official supported side events during our tournaments, also we can help cater to our non-competitive playerbases by helping cardshops hold fan-meets
Duel Masters back to English with "Duel Masters' Play" in English please 🎉
I miss Duel Masters so much.
@@duyknguyen tbh, there's ways of playing play's in english, a little bit jank, but it works really well
@@castanha6226Yeah but it's not officially and it only works for pc 😢 the constant switch between translation app on mobile is hard for newbie tho
That's mostly a function of Duel Masters being made since the jump as a collaboration between Takara Tomy and Wizarda of the Coast (the folks who make Magic). In other words, Duel Masters (which i think has been rebranded as Kaijudo) does not suffer from the ideology of how to make and run a card game that affects how Konami makes YGO.
Granted, they probably have a host of other problems because they are made by WotC, but that does explain why Kaijudo has casual formats
I agree with Larry have a format that is mid tier deck focussed just something that is less rage inducing otherwise the player base will eventually die out
Getting a new format off the ground would take creators pushing it (and creating it). Remember, formats in Magic are mostly made by the players for the players.
Yeah. Commander's ruleset is even governed by a fan council, not by Wizards of the Coast.
@@arglebargle5531 which is part of what makes it so good
It's possible if your familiar with dueltainers on tiktok they recieved a large following with using their yugiboomer format (custom singleton format up to 5ds era , nothing legal passed syncros) own set of rules and banlist. It's focused on more nostalgia of the anime we grew up on. I've dueled in their discord servers using stuff like dark magicians, blue eyes, exodia and seen others use creativity for their decks. It's brings back that more casual game play and hand traps like ash are banned in their format
Yugioh Commander! Is just the channel you guys should check out. It's a fan made format that's pretty well thought out
The thing Is most those formats just become competitive lite instead of being a fun take on trying to be causal with people playing stuff they want
When you were talking about only using "mid level cards", it kind of reminded me of Smogon OU, UU, etc. where you keep the most used cards to one tier and the next most used cards to the next tier. Unfortunately, I think there are far too many cards for that to work, and also good removal is going to get snatched up by higher tiers immediately, but thought it was interesting.
Honestly i wish they had Tag Duel championships. I know they come up at side events, but it would be such a blast to have actual Yugioh teams, with two players on the field at the same time, synergizing ans working together. Force people to be a bit more social and interactive 😊😊😊
sign me up. me and my friend had a nice combo that works with each other
It's surprising that they don't since I think there's been a tag duel-esque match in every Yugioh series. and I know ArcV had multiple 1v3 duels.
This^ I said the same thing in my comment for tag duels also make them share a life point pool too so that lp cost is an actual factor and both players on a team need to consider what the other is doing before wasting the only resource yugioh has imagine someone using judgement cutting team LP to under 1k and ruining the partners set skill drain it creates a whole new dynamic
Have you guys heard of Domain Format yet? It's commander in magic but for Yu-Gi-Oh. There's a RUclips channel called yugioh commander. Deck master but with good rules that make sense.
-commander is any monster you want (main deck or extra deck monster)
-on death returns to command zone
-commander tax is 500 LP that compounds
-deck is all Singleton cards
-monsters in deck must be within commanders domain (shares a type, attribute, archetype, or mentioned in effect)
-use any spell/trap you want
My God... Galaxy/Blue-eyes has so much to choose from; finally it can become viable outside of playgrounds from 20 years ago.
Master duel has done this more casual format several times now in the Legends Anthology events, they just need to keep those events permanent with a little more tuned banlist so its not exclusively anime decks, but just a more casual deck environment. I remember that Dark Magician of all decks was Tier 1 for the first event, partly because the structure made it affordable, and partly because the deck was competent in a more casual environment. N/R format is also similar to this, though that format definitely needs a banlist so theres not just clear powerhouse cards.
Having either a rotation format to go alongside the advanced format, or having just a separate Legends format with a much more restrictive forbidden limited list to lower the power level of the game, making it feel more anime like or whatever.
Speed duel deck boxes are genuinely a great way to play casual yugioh with friends, they are just cowards and refuse to move into the synchro era. If there was a speed duel type format with a more restrictive card list that included more modern decks it would be great. You can leave the skill cards behind so you dont have the Duel Links problem of OP skills that break decks if youre doing more modern cards.
I remember being a kid and genuinely wishing Tag-Dueling would catch on because it had so much potential for group interactivity and new synergies between decks.
Ok as a Pokemon Player I recommend reaching out to someone in Pokemon for a discussion like you had with The Professor and MTG.
The truth is Pokemon has been having lots of conversations like this recently with our rotating Standard format sometimes getting tiring, our long term (last 14 years ish) Expanded format being unmaintained and not played anymore (plus we don't get enough reprints to make people able to play it), and our up and coming format is Gym Leader Challenge, based on commander it's 1 type of Pokemon, 1 copy of a card per deck. (still 1v1 though).
One thing left out of this discussion is the colour identity restrictions present in commander, no clue how that could map to YGO but it is something.
Also, to make a new format doesn't necessarily mean solving all the ban lists and stuff ahead of time, if you made a video showcasing a 4-way free for all where you had tuned the decks to work for that type of game it could create a foundation on which bans and rules patches could be proposed and applied to get an eventual format. The same way the Commander Rules Committee handles specific rules for that format while being independent from WotC.
Yugioh has monster types and attributes. Could do something along those lines at least for monster cards
True, but from what little I know about the game some archetypes wouldn't fit into that restriction.
Possibly limiting to 1 type of extra-deck monster could cut down the options?
Or just requiring all monsters to share a commonality, but it could be attribute, type, or name element (so "Lightsworn" would permit all monsters that are or reference "Lightsworn"). That seems messy and I don't know enough about the game to really understand the implications one way or the other.
@@Ratchetfan321 the problem with locking it to types and attributes means that some archetypes will just never be able to be played under those rules. My fav deck is Burning Abyss, the main deck monsters are dark fiends and the ED monsters are a mix of dark fairy, light warrior and light fairy monsters. It's not just this one as well, there's Vanquish Soul and Altergeist to mention a couple others.
@@arilenn3293 domain format answers these problems
@arilenn3293 I meant more so maybe making It to where you could only have 2-3 attributes per deck or 3-4 types. Since with magic the most you can have is 1-5 color per commander decks most are 2 or 3 color decks so finding that sweet spot for yugioh could help set limitations so not everyone is running every hand trap mon or extended in their extra for example.
Almost the video you guys make every week. And one I'm happy to watch every week.
Hi Team APS! Great points about the need for a casual Yugioh format! As a former Yugioh player, playing Commander in Magic has been a real breath of fresh air. And Yugioh has the potential to have something like that too.
I know we have the Deckmaster format and even the one that you guys made in previous videos, although there's already a somewhat popular fan-made format called Domain, that fixes the issues from Konami's Deckmaster format. Issues like the harsh lose the duel condition for losing your deckmaster, for example.
And having played both Yugioh and MTG Commander, Domain definitely replicates Commander the closest.
Similarily to Commander, in order for Domain to take off, it's going to need a HUGE signal boost from the community. And who knows, if it gets big enough, maybe Konami will recognize it one day.
Try it out if you get a chance and see if you guys like it!
Domain format is basically the Yu-Gi-Oh equivalent to mtg's commander. It's a fan made format, has a similar deck building restriction, and the average game has 4 players and it's a ton of fun.
DOMAIN FORMAT MENTION!!
Can confirm. It’s so much fun. Do check it out.
To me, Domain format seems like someone just ported over the Commander rules directly without really any thought for if they would translate properly into Yu-Gi-Oh. It doesn't seem particularly well thought-out beyond just "Well, it worked for Magic" to me. I like the idea of a more casual Yugioh format, but I sorta think the best way to do that is just with tiers like Smogon in Pokemon. Though, honestly, I think a better metric than Smogon's usage tiers would maybe be to have tiers where certain staples are banned as you progress down the tiers, and any decks that are particularly degen with those staples banned are also banned. Idk, haven't thought about it much, but tiers seem like a much more reasonable way of adding casual play to Yugioh than stapling on rules for another game.
@@Kevin_Anderson Yes, Domain rules are really similar to Commander. But it is not clear to me where you are trying to get. Are you afraid it's going to be a mess? I can't guarantee you will like if, different people have different tastes, but I can say that me and a lot others have been playing it and having a blast.
About your tiering idea, there is already a format like that called "Kuchen Format." I have never played it, so I can't vouch for it, but that is what they promise. Maybe it interests you.
@@RatoRatito I'm not trying to shit on people who like Domain, but to say I don't think it's really the solution that anyone is looking for. I don't think any of the design choices in Domain have any particular relevance to Konami's design of Yugioh, and are instead just adapted directly from Commander and forced to fit a system they don't work as well for. It's lazy thinking from a design standpoint, assuming that because a system works for Magic, it must also be fun and effective for Yugioh. The type and attribute restrictions seem largely arbitrary for Yugioh, which has a limited amount of type-themed support, and gatekeeps certain decks out of important cards, like Water not getting a decent hand trap while Light has Veiler, Psy-Frames, Ogre, and Nibiru and Dark has D.D. Crow, Shifter, Skull Meister, and Bystials. There are enough engines and starters in the game that I would imagine at least some degree of hand traps are relevant even in a Singleton format, especially if they're something like Bystials where they're also extenders.
Not to mention Domain doesn't really make restrictions on the Spell and Trap lineup you can run, which doesn't really make sense with the idea of restricted deckbuilding that the limitations on monsters try and enforce. In my opinion, the rules of Domain format don't really make sense for Yu-Gi-Oh card design. I'm not trying to say it would be easy to come up with a better system, and Konami sure as shit hasn't done it with their "deck master" format, but imo Domain is lazy design that just assumes rules that worked for one game will be suited for another.
That's not to knock you for enjoying it. I'm sure it's still plenty of fun, but a format like Trinity is better thought-out, in my opinion. I don't agree with overarching gameplay-altering rules like the summon limit, but the point-buy system for cards is a much smarter and more engaging deckbuilding restriction for Yugioh than restricting type and attribute imo. Fan-made formats are difficult to design, so I'm not going to make fun of the people who run Domain format, but I personally don't think the Commander rules are suited for Yugioh.
Commander is a causal format. But Competitve Commander events are a thing and CEDH. The playerbase as a whole is so filled with casuals that it self regulates.
I actually play a format called Domain Format. It's pretty much exactly what everyone here is suggesting. And we definitely have to have a pregame talk about the power levels of our decks. I have videos up of four player games if you wanna check it out!
Enter: Joshua Schmidt's custom banlist format
It's so peak
Every omninegate, floodgate, circular, link 1, and blowout card is banned.
(Also a bunch of insane cards are all nuked or limited)
Creates a format where even decks like Penguins are viable.
It's ass for how many decks are made unplayable
@@Honest_Mids_Masher name 3 decks that are genuinely made unplayable relative to everything else outside of specifically tear which had to have everything nuked. Literally every other deck is viable or is genuinely horribly unfun to play against and shouldn't be viable in a healthy game (floodgate turbo)
@@nogghorn7080 Easy, Synchrons, Speedroids, Rokkets/Dragonlink
Just noticing even Slifer is unplayable and Scareclaws lost their only boss monster 💀
@@nogghorn7080I can do even more than 3. Ghostrick, Synchrons (anime deck made unplayable), Scareclaws, Salamangreat (another made unplayable), Appliancers (another anime unplayable), Slifer the Sky dragon, pure Cyber Angels (Another anime unplayable), World Chalice.
You really expect me to take that list seriously when he's banning world chalice cards that aren't generically used?
@@nogghorn7080 Synchrons, World chalice, Cyber Angels, Scareclaw, Salamangreat.
3 of which are anime decks
I think you guys should have a live discussion and brainstorm some ideas for a causal format!
My own casual format is actually making yugioh cubes, each made at the end of each era of the game, so we have a DM cube a GX cube and a 5Ds cube, but in order to get people started they have a core list of cards (20-25) to their deck and they go and draft the rest, other cards they need to play their decks are in the draft it's self.
The only downside is you don't bring your own cards its self contained.
The recent time travel 2004 event on master duel was so much fun, i made me some GOAT format decks and having a blast.
I don't like commenting and don't very often, but when Paul brought up Solfachord, I had to. It's my favorite deck, I love it to death, and I will play it into Snake-Eyes even if I lose most of the time. I also love pendulum summons (idc what others think).
I've been playing with an idea in my mind to help with the casual and competitive divide of this game. It's not one format, but one big format divided in to a bunch of different power levels. Kinda like how boxing has weight classes.
Imagine plugging your deck list into Konami's website and it spits back at you a "Deck Power Number". This number calculates how powerful your deck is based on many things like, amount of staples used, what staples used, what archetype you're playing, number of generic boss monsters, etc. Then you can know what other decks you can play against and not get stomped if you're a new player.
With these new "Deck Power Numbers", tournaments can have different power level event's. At the top would be the Heavyweights like Snake-Eyes and Branded, but in the middle would be Solfachord and Invoked Shaddoll. At the bottom would be goat decks and weaker archetypes. If Yugioh was broken up like this, you could have weak newer decks like Solfachord play against older decks that were strong for their time play against each other.
This would fix the problem with Goat and Edison format that was brought up in the video because you can still play those strategies from those formats, but people who want to play with XYZs or Pendulums can also play as long as their power level is near yours.
This idea would bring up a lot of problem with the ban list; also it might be hard to implement if there are too many power levels because local stores may not have enough players of a certain power level to make tournaments, but this is a rough idea and I would love if others gave feedback.
This game is really fun when power levels match, but when there are Heavyweights playing against Lightweights then it can be frustrating. I hope this idea can help alleviate that.
Gransolfachord Musecia is curious tech for pends that I still consider adding into my Igknights-powered deck. It synergizes with nearly all of the pend sets that you end up seeing to give a touch of something nice.
@@residentgrey She honestly has some great utility, but if Electromite came back I would take her out of Solfachord.
Even in a Solfa deck I don’t find myself summoning her often, but that probably has to do with the fact Solfa wants the same exact scale every time, 1-8 with cutia and Coolia, even though they have a bunch of different scales. Also, they don’t have activated pendulum effects like Igknights do, so trading one for another normally isn’t useful. Having perfectly an odd for an even isn’t always guaranteed either cuz of the number of different scales.
She probably is better in Igknights than Solfa cuz everything is pend scale 7 or 2 and since they all share the same pend effect you can reliably trade your hand with your extra deck for a useful effect.
60 card deck
1 copy of any card, unless the cards effect specifically needs other copies of itself (ie:Bubonic Vermin)
An Extra deck monster is your Deck Master, this number counts to your extra deck limit.
Extra deck is limited to 10.
Sounds similar to Domain Format
holy shit you have no idea how crazy it is to me that you mention bubonic vermin of all cards as the exception xD I recently built a fun goat format deck with only 1 copy per card, except bubonic vermin which i play 3!
@@Frogleeoh yeah, exactly. In a one card format with a sixty card mandatory deck, cards like Thunder Dragon and Vermin would have a home.
For the love of all that is good, yes, there needs to be a casual format. MonkeyFightTCG has literally gone through every Yugioh archetype and ranked them by power levels based on which variation of the deck you're playing. Doing that sort of ranking helps keeps deck in line with each other. Konami needs to attempt to do something like that though, albeit, it will be a trial and error approach.
Switch turns into moves : you do one thing, i do one thing...
Maybe you can keep the stack and all these things, but playing a spell, or activate an effect, or draw a card is a move... It was just an idea...
You just have invented quick play spells, traps and hand traps again in the most awkward way.
This is why i only collect yugioh and not play in the meat grinder that is yugioh atm if there was a officially recognised and supported casual format like your saying id play the shit out of it
It doesn't even need to be officially recognized. As a magic player, trust me, Commander was more fun before WotC realized they could make money off it.
Come check out Domain Format on my channel. It's a commander-esque format for yugioh, and its the most fun I've ever had playing. You won't regret it!
I got some ideas for a casual Yu-Gi-Oh format. Everything at 1 (obviously), ban some crazy cards, up the deck count to 50-60, same life point count, Limit the extra deck to 5 or 8 cards (could help curve the craziness) and have a deck master that costs life points to summon depending on how many stars it has. Any thoughts?
Me and my friends have been playing the domain format and man its fun. Its basically commander in yu gi oh. Not many people talk about
And it would be cool if u guys did a video of it! And have a duel for a video
for real
💯💯💯
Yes!! Domain is a blast, they need to try it!
12:49 lmaoooo Paull was like "BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH" 💀
Yeah, but ya got get it around 12:40.
Domain format is getting pretty popular right now on places like TikTok, which is a remastered sorta version of the Deck Master format Konami did
💯
I love seeing the format grow!
I've been saying this for years. Highlander Format (No more than 1 copy of any card), with a perma Banlist. This actually makes duels fun and you can get creative, and it makes anime decks viable if you're into that too.
We actually have been doing a 4 man pod style of Yu-Gi-Oh. Go clock wise, 4 emz, first three don't draw or attack turn 1. It's one of our little casual party things. You should give it a try.
Oh man, I bet you guys would love Domain Format! it's a way to play four player games with a deckmaster, check it out on my channel sometime!
To piggyback off of what Larry suggested about a Highlander style format, you can have your own "boss" monster for a specific deck that cam only be summoned the traditional way ( star level tribute requirements, summoning mechanic, extra deck requirements, etc) one time. Then, to resummon the monster you have to play LP in increased incremental amounts on top of whatever it requires to summon that card.
You're explaining Domain Format! 😆 I make content on the format if you're curious!
Yugioh needs more official formats in general. The fact that you can't do tag duels or a battle royale style formats even though it has been done multiples times in the anime is disapointng and frustrating
I was thinking about the static card pool in GOAT, bc while not in the format Fencing Fire Ferret fits in just fine. Maybe looking to Magic's Pauper would help, limiting card inclusion by rarity (or number of each card by rarity) would auto limit some combos. Idk
These formats with a set number of cards is awesome. If u get 2 playsets of all the cards u and a friend can play any decks u want vs each other till the end of time. No worries
Yugioh the community . Can make up it own format. Just like edh/commander
I feel like you guys really did a good job covering the sentiments of most people who want to come back to playing Yu-Gi-Oh for fun. Including how their competitors are much more casual friendly and that is truly hurting Yu-Gi-Oh. Myself I stopped playing Yu-Gi-Oh awhile back, but poke my head in to see if the game solved any of these issues, and the answer has always still been no. I wish their was something more casual and substantial, because I would definitely be back in if they did.
I draw a card, set two cards face down, and summon a monster in attack mode. End my turn.
Opponent draws, sets Two cards face down, summons stronger monster than me, attacks, I use sak armor. Monster is dead. Opponent activates mystical space typhoon on my last card. Ends turn. Easy.
No books, cell phones, or homework needed to entertain yourself while the opposing player takes a two hour turn.
Lol facts I have ppl go on the phone when I do my hero combos modern yugioh is just ass in my opinion
Exactly it isn’t even fun. Especially when you’re watching your opponent spend 5-7 minutes to summon out 5 high level monsters in one turn to negate your entire board. There’s no fun in that.
True and most people build boards that make it so your opponent can’t play the game, what’s the point in challenging your opponent then lol
@@UTgohanMy buddy and I used to play Yugioh at work and it eventually came down to who could combo off first and lock the other player out.
that was peak yugioh days. actual limitations and straight forward card design with no insanely fleshed out archetypes all over the place. I've said this before but archetypes becoming the designspace for yugioh killed the game.
The problem trying to make a "commander" style format to yugioh is that it was high ranking mtg judges that built themselves a format for them to play after they were done giving up their competitive play time for everyone else. Wizards brought it in house when they realized they were leaving money on the table. To get the format someone has to build it and prove the concept first. The base rules of yugioh really arent designed on a resource system and at this point most archetypes consider them more of a suggestion vs a hard rule.
8:40 the gaze pierces the soul. Great video 😂
Unfortunately, I think that if players want this, they're going to have to start by organizing things themselves and showing Konami there is money in it. That's what makes Konami do anything. From their perspective, the cards to play something like GOAT format already exist out there, and they made it even easier from their point of view by rereleasing the first six sets. At this point, we're going to need to make unofficial GOAT events through Master Duel or otherwise to increase public interest. On a positive note, I do think the Master Duel event that recently occurred wherein you could only use the OCG cards available in 2004 is a sign that Konami is testing the amount of interest in such a format. Hopefully that event was popular enough to show them that the fans would like a more casual format such as that.
I love this channel because you take me back to when Yu-Gi-Oh! was fun. Thank you for taking the time to have this conversation. As someone who stopped seriously playing when Xyz came out, and nearly stopped playing at all with Pendulums, I agree that something has to be done to promote casual gameplay.
My fervent wish is that Konami goes back to the drawing board and figures out how to simplify and slow down the game to make it more accessible, whether that is a side format or the main format. And while I have crazy ideas on how to do that (ex. set a required minimum of Normal Monsters), I’m honestly not sure what would actually work to positively impact the game instead of just create new fiascos like when Link Monsters were first introduced and you could only summon Fusion, Xyz, and Synchro to the Extra Monster Zone OR to a zone Link Monsters pointed to.
An interesting rule would be that you’re only allowed to Special Summon 1 monster from the Extra Deck once per turn.
Like 90% of my Duels on Master Duels are my Opponent showing off their Extra Deck.
magic: its a social game
yugioh: its a waiting game.
"Do I have the format for you" - Domain Format
Also we can guarantee you don't need to make a new card type.
@@domainformat Another card type would just add to game complexity so I agree there.
Love that we’re having this conversation, I collected cards as a kid and only very recently did I start collecting cards again with the hope of being able to play and holy hell is modern yugioh daunting. I have no idea what people are talking about with all the names of these meta decks and whatnot. I like the chill slow paced version of the game where it feels like you can make an error in your strategy and it doesn’t automatically result in your defeat. Also watching people do all this insane summoning for like 5 minutes straight turn one is so over the top
look into domain format where it is played like magic commander
I've been experimenting with a way of playing Yugioh that has so far, been working fairly well with creating the play experience that I and a lot of people are looking for. It's still big and bombastic with lots of chains and summons, but you aren't having one-sided beatdowns that end on turn 2, games have a lot of interaction, go for multiple turns and can often be VERY close fights.
I 100% agree.
There was always a competitive scene in yugioh in the early days.
But the competitive scene isnt what made EVERY kid in the schoolyard no matter who you were (even girls) have atleast one deck in their backpack in the early 2000s.
It was the artstyle, the attitude, the relatabilty to the characters in the show, the ancient mystery in the show with the cards themselves being clues and connections to those mystery's, the rock style music, the collectibles and memorabilia, and just the pure casual fun of getting a big group together to play 2v2 or 3v3 etc.
That is what made yugioh a cultural phenomenon.
And today it's just missing. Its been missing once they started getting rid of all of those elements, the first element that left was the character relatability and ancient mystery feel. Then competition mindset set in... the artstyle changed .. the rest is history.
Its why i think Speed Duels is onto something here! Not Rush Duel because none of the characters are relatable and the artstyle is different enough not feel relatable to casual old players or even casual new players
But if you can somehow blend goat format with speed duel.. i think we can be onto something !
Speed duel should be officially supported, maybe a whole new app separated from Duel Links with Speed Duel Codes to claim digital product.. It's not being focused and suffered going downfall on sales lately 😢
If a casual format were to be made I would say add a bit of player immersion to it. Say pick a theme like for me six samurai, make it a singleton format and only allow 3 copies of only one spell,trap, monster card as an exception for deck building. As for the name of the format maybe Duelist Lords format.
Dungeon Dice Monsters how it was represented in the TV show, with those limited rules, limited set or style of cards(Vanilla high ATK and/Defense Stats). Emphasis on less of the hand trap, or my boss monster has infinite negates built in and comes out turn one. 👍
The GBA game was fire
May I recommend a fan made format called Domain? Similar to commander.
All you guys mentioning Domain, thank you!! 🤝
Kingdom Format = just archetypes that came out in Duelist Kingdom/Battle City. And decks are archetype-locked. Meaning, you cant use generic supports or generic boss monsters.
That leaves us modern and classic cards that can make Dark Magician, Blue-Eyes, Red-Eyes, Harpie Lady, Machine King, Legendary Fisherman, Great Moth/Insect, Gate Guardian, Exodia, Flame Swordsman, Summoned Skull/Archfiend, PuMpking/Bonez, Panik (if that ever gets retrains or support), Toons, Relinquished/Restrict, Gaia the Fierce Knight, Black Luster Soldier, Battleguards, Gravekeepers, Dark Necrofear/Dark Sanctuary, Egyptian Gods, Penguins, ABC-VWXYZ, Magnet Warrirors, King Queen and Jack Knights, Amazoness.
They need to just a format that only lets you special summon a set amount. lol. Jesus Christ no more summoning your whole ass deck in one turn.
I'm with you, but every time i suggest this I get blasted. There's a group out there that is adamant this is a bad idea
It needs to be a limit to summons and not just special summons. Don't need Floo being the best deck
@@Recchi91 because that is what separates yugioh from other card games. if you hate special summoning, yugioh isnt for you and you should go play other card games.
I feel like this would have been the solution years ago before things got out of hand in part of konami, just like they added the tribute system etc. They could have future proof or limited with the rules.
@@manleyfgc7981You're gatekeeping a dying card game. Adding a SEPARATE format to the game with different rules doesn't effect your current game format lol. Why would you want to encourage people to play other games, when they want to engage with YGO?
What people really want imo is an "anime" format, where every archetype as an identity gets to do is cool thing at least once a duel and create a dramatic back and forth scenario. This might tie back in to that extra deck video you guys made in the past.
Yep. Casuals are pushed out of modern Yugioh which hurts the card game all around. Whether it's getting newer players interested or keeping older players invested. The casual scene makes up a good chunk of Yugioh's playerbase but Konami has failed casuals on all fronts in favor of meta players.
If Konami doesn't do it. Maybe to start things off there is no other choice to create a new format ourselves! And regarding the banlist: The community doesn't have to agree imo, we all are different that is human nature. I think it would be worth a try to have a banlist that is voted by the community, but only with verified accounts. The banlist alone would change a format, even if not so many new cards get added.
I also liked the idea of having formats matching each era of Yugioh. Classic/Duelmonsters; GX; 5Ds; etc..
Would love to hear your thoughts :)
Casual is not really a game type, rather it's a mindset.
No matter how a game is built you will always have the "Spike" player type wanting to play whatever wins the most consistantly.
Something Like speed duel is a product designed to be more beginner friendly, yet competitive players have discovered broken interactions and even speed duel has it's own banlist.
this. casual is a mindset.
Exactly this. Commander can exist as a casual format because the people who play it largely agree it's meant to be casual. Yes there are differences in opinion about what is and isn't casual, but people have to agree on the goals of the format. Commander can be just as competitive as any other, that's why cedh exists.
true but that doesnt mean Konami shouldnt try (not that they didnt). I think just the community's mentality can harm the experience of whatever format. Like when we got info about new formats one of the formats was called deck master. people immediately said it sucked without playing it. only one youtuber tried to do a casual duel duel with the rules other people just went "last soldier lol". Also although its not a official format check one of the progression series episodes where cimo makes a illegal move comments just scream blood and accusing him of cheating.
We tried so many casual tourneys at our locals like drafting, structure deck only, only rogue decks and whatnot. There was never much of a demand. At multiple cardshops. It is just how it is and it seems there's not enough people willing to engage in casual yugi gaming
you should check out Domain Format if you're wanting something casual and like Commander
Literally every Domain game 🤝🤝🤝🐢🥇
Thing about the group of 4 commander (which is more like 3-6 in my experience) is if someone has a faster/stronger deck, they often become the target of the group.
And Konami could totally sell reprints of older cards, various ways to do it, but there is a source of profit there. The card design people may even be interested in getting to play in slow design space and print new cards into that old format, which seems self-defeating, but, could make it easier for them to justify it.
We need edison 2.0
I could see "Kingdom" format being a singleton format where you'd use skill cards (either existing or newly introduced ones) in place of a commander mechanic, rather than needing a new card type. That paired with a bunch of the DM era archetypes and their new support. So maybe like a higher power speed duel card pool, we don't want the long combo turns but being able to whip out stuff like Ultimate Flame Swordsman or the BLS retrains- would be cool to give some of those cards a home other than "rogue deck that gets bodied at locals".
I still don't get why it has to be a singleton format. I am still interested in the concept but don't see it as a remedy for anything.
"We're gonna be playing casual Yugioh, but we're not going to be using archetypes, no Ritual, Fusion, Synchro, Xyz, Pendulum or Link monsters, no cards with a paragraph of card effects, no draw cards, no equip cards, no quick play cards, no field spells, no continuous cards, no counter traps, no monsters with over 2000 ATK/DEF, and no effect monsters - trust me, it's super fun!"
Sounds about right for what some people consider "casual"
Okay now go checkout Domain Format where nothing is banned, but the format is still balanced due to there being 4 players per game that can 3v1 the problem guy😎
Modern yugioh at singleton has been fun actually with friend's, regardless of archetype the matches have been fair and fun and over all it brings us out the competitive side, you don't have consistent decks you tend to hold onto resources
Casual commander with friends is just the best
It's so easy to hop in, play and especially getting new people in. I think commander is easy because there are typically 3-4 players. If someone is getting too strong it's not like it's just you having to fight them, it can be you and 2-3 people fighting back against he person winning to even things out. Politicking, make alliances and agreements allow it to be way more enjoyable.
BUT if you want to be try hard you can take it as competitive as you want to be with your group.
@@HeneLv Very true, the other people at the table can also guide new players and step in when they get something wrong
@@YuriBo26 It being super social makes it a lot better because sometimes people aren't sure about an interaction and nobody in our pod minds asking/clarifying if they know. 'Made a mistake, it's alright take it back'. Winning, at least in the groups I play with is secondary compared to just having a fun time kind of like a board game.
Go check out Domain Format! I'd argue it's the commander-esque format paul is hypothesizing about. I make content on it if you wanna check it out
Domain format is like a more polished Deck master game. A channel called Yugioh Commander talks all about it and he explains how it works.
We really could use a format with a particular card pool, instead a snapshot of a time period (like Yu-Gi-Oh's current formats).
We have a casual format.
It's called Edison Format.
It sounds like everyone wants to play with friends while not having any friends to play with
That was the best part of cardgames tho, that you could just play with whoever and become friends. Its kinda hard when you need hundreds of dollars just to be relatively on the same level as everyone else.
More like a thousand. Konami been inflating the fck out of the important meta cards. Konami only cares about 1 thing and it’s money. They don’t give a crap about fixing the game or making it so that meta decks become more affordable. You’d be better off playing something else.
Yes playing with friends and actually having fun. Not having your opponent pull off a 5-7 minute infinite combo to set up a board to negate all your plays. There’s no fun in that, and this is why new players are scared to play because the skill gap and insane power creep, along with the busted combos some of these decks have. New players will get chewed up and spit out.
I think a big issue is that its not just commander. You can draft mtg and people like it and game shops make money off of it..... there is no supported sealed format. Shops need to get behind things as much as platters so
modern yugioh is soulless and toxic. all because of konami not the playerbase
Facts, modern yugioh is just boring to me it’s not yugioh
@@UTgohan because it's not, correct.
copy paste archetypes that all do the same thing.
extra deck monsters have lost their meaning.
I agree Everydeck does play the same that’s why modern yugioh is boring
@@Nelex5000what decks are the same last year? 😂
Konami are not creating broken combos we are so we also part of the problem especially these content creators making broken combos videos
the fck you mean? I'm really happy playing against *OMNI NEGATE DECKS THAT PLAY WITH THEMSELVES INSTEAD OF AN ACTUAL GODDAMN OPPONENT*
I’ve been working on a kinda PVE format for yogioh that revolves around playing against a deck that that is able to play it’s self and it’s up to 3 player vs one deck.
Would the Duel Links card limit pools solve some of this??? I like variety too but I love the ingenious use of card tech. How do we preserve that while also busting archetype dominance?
My buddy and I made a game mode where it involves teams of two. Both teams have one FUSION boss monster and each player has half of the summoning recipe for the boss monster like Dragon Master Knight.
The thing is you have to use poly to get out the boss and if it dies it goes back to the boss zone and the summoning recipe goes back to the extra deck. We had fun with this play style.
In order to win your last hit has to be from the boss monster.
Hi! I sent you this on Twitter a while back but I came up with something close to a combination of deck master and commander (something I’ve been playing a lot recently with my friends)
I tried my best to come up with a ruleset that felt better to build around based on things I’ve learned from commander as a way to offer alternatives. I would love to know your opinion on it if you ever have the chance because I’ve watched your discussions around more casual games and watched your videos trying weird things like this. I apologize in advance if the English is a bit off, it’s not my first language.
The rules are as follows:
- You can only have one deck master. It must either be a level 5 or higher monster or an extra deck monster. You can’t have any copies in your deck of that card outside of the deck master. (This is to minimize the chances of people choosing their one card starter as their deck master although I understand there are some exceptions that would require special rules around)
-You can only include cards in your deck and extradeck that:
@share an archetype with your deck master,
@mentions in its text the archetype or name of your deck master (this mention can’t be to exempt the monster from the card)
@that share Type with it in case of monsters
@that mentions the type or attribute of the deck master in its text in case of spells/traps
-Your deck master is always considered to be in your hand for card effects if it’s a main deck monster while in the deck master zone.
-you can only normal/special summon your deck master from the deck master zone once per turn.
-once per turn, during the end step, except the turn it was summoned, you can return your deck master to the deck master zone from anywhere.
-For your effects only, you can consider your deck master in your extra deck as long as it is in the deck master zone.
-After the first time your deck master gets summoned, you must banish 1 card from your hand or field face down every time you summon it from the deck master zone. Every time you would summon your deck master from the deck master zone, the cost is incrementally increased by 1.
As someone who is in the same boat having switched so largely to mtg commander over yugioh I can say game pace is the largest culprit. A format that limited special summoning would be a huge start in the right direction but, just like commander format, a unique ban lost would still be required, and likely different from the current formats list. Also singleton with larger deck and possibly smaller extra deck(like 5 max) would help immensely to slow the game down while offering more variance in gameplay which is also a huge draw of commander format
I agree with this so much! Me and my friends keep trying to set up houserules for casual decks, but having more specific balancing rules for a casual format AND accessible products to support it would be the dream. Living in a global south country I can say most yugioh products usually feel like a big asking price for someone who just wants to "try it out", so it HAS to be accessible.
Also Kindgom Format sounds like a great name, get on it Konami!!