Hey all, hope you enjoyed this episode! In the future, I aim to make these videos even more detailed, with me going through every nut and cranny. There are a lot of systems on a plane, way more than in tanks, so with the time we had it wasn't possible here.
Fantastic video. Not many folks have seen the inside of an Avenger's turret, but now we have thanks to you! I was expecting a fancy computing reflector gunsight though.
If I had to guess, it originally had a reflector sight, but during one of its refits (possibly into its current passenger/cargo plane configuration), the reflector sight was removed in favor of the normal iron sights.
Probably to save weight. A few inches worth of metal weighs much less than everything that goes into the reflector sight. Again, I'm suspecting this change was done to change it to a cargo/passenger plane.
100LL on the fuel tank cap stands for 100 Low Lead, not litres. This is the most common fuel used by piston driven propeller planes. Just for future reference! Great video as always
To further clarify, 100 Low Lead is the modern piston aviation gasoline. In WWII, different formulations were used, generally 130/150 octane with higher levels of lead
Pete Sheppard Thanks Pete! I’ve only flown modern aircraft so I just learned something new. I wonder how the engine had to be modified (if at all) in order to run on 100LL. Maybe it just gets less performance?
I'm pretty sure there were tweaks and reduced performance. Given these old engines were only expected to last a few hundred hours at most, they are also babied meticulously these days.
Also another thing I noticed is you called both the ADF and VOR indicators “compass and direction finders”. While technically true that they are direction finders neither are compasses(if you notice that dial at the bottom you can actually turn that to change the bearing). There’s usually only one or in this case two compasses in an airplane and it’s usually at the top to avoid messing with the airplanes navigational equipment. You can tell the VOR was added in later because it looks so new, and for VOR navigation you actually need to have specific buildings over the navigational point for it to work, which wouldn’t make sense to have over war torn water in the middle of the 40s. ADF on the other hand probably was used, since it was developed before the use of VORs. Fun fact, if you ever wanted to find out where your favorite am radio station was all you would have to do it tune the frequency into the ADF to find it.
Amazing. My grandfather was a turret gunner for one of these during the Pacific Operations. Yes, he was supposed to have been a little guy at the time. He should have been little, because the little smartass forged his father's signature and enlisted at 16 years old. Thank you so much for doing this so I can finally see a bit from his perspective. I remember the stories, but there is nothing like seeing it. When I was about 21, he took me to Charleston, SC and we went on the Yorktown. He flew off the Lexington for a bit and they were sister ships. He just ditched the tour and took me everywhere. We opened "Authorized Only" hatches and climbed ladders and basically went to every part of the ship. It was funny because this was about 1991 and the ship was crawling with guys my grandfather's age and my age. The coffee shop on the hanger deck was filled with old women sitting alone and patiently waiting for their husbands and grandsons to get finished playing and telling stories.
@@Benji1969 Not really. If it had been some kids messing around, they might have said something, but Grandpa had one of those blue WW2 veteran caps on, and they let those guys do anything they wanted within reason.
Great video! In the majority of operational US Navy/Marine Corps Avengers in World War 2, the tandem cockpit position behind the pilot was not used, and in later models, no middle seat was installed. Instead, this area held two large radio transceiver units and other electronics. In any case, the TBM/TBF's radio operator's station was in the tunnel under the turret, facing forward, where the radio interface panels and equipment were installed. The radio operator also manned the ventral .30 caliber machine gun position.
Torpedo bombers were true sitting ducks not only for their bulk and lack of maneuverability, but the flight pattern they had to fly to accurately drop the torpedo. Those crews knew going in they were easy targets and nonetheless bravely carried out their mission(s). Balls of Steel.
One popped Saburo Sakai! He mistook it for a Wildcat. Grazed his scalp with a .50 cal. I presume. Got that tidbit from "Challenge for the Pacific" The Six month Battle for Guadalcanal by Robert Leckie.
@@wanyelewis9667 Challenge For The Pacific, Leckie p78. alleges a TBF. Both Wildcat and TBF were mid wing design. SBD was low wing. Sakai had already seen SBD's. The TBF was new.
Crewing a TBM, it is a normal operation for us to fold the wings. Our hangar is not huge, similar to a carrier's hangar deck, so we ALWAYS fold the wings when arriving back home. The video hints it is a trick at air shows, but most if not all TBM operators, in the United States, still fold their wings to get into and or save space in the hangar. Great videos by the way. 🙂
Thanks for the video, great job. Especially enjoyed the detail and seeing the clocks in mounted in the instrument panel. My father flew his last tour in a TBM. He always shared a story that after the tour, whilst returning home, no crew required other than the pilot and knowing the plane was going to be scrapped he set about removing the clock mounted in the front panel, which he had long coveted. Having selected autopilot he rolled over with some tools and inserted himself under the dash and set about removing it. He soon realised that his flight suit was firmly jammed and he couldn't free himself for what he describes as an eternity. He was sure that after having lived through a war he was going to die in a pointless crash jammed under his instrument panel. He did extract himself but gave up on the clock.
Crewing a TBM with the Commemorative Air Force, I so enjoyed your video. Yes squeezing into the turret requires some gymnastics. We also use a short ladder to help in loading that position. The restoration is damn good. Though having such a huge and padded seat in the rear position is a bit off. Still on long flights it would be so nice, as your butt tends to fall asleep on the original folding metal bench. Again great video.
These planes were also used as Spruce Bud Worm - Spray Planes back in the late 60's - 70's. Here in Atlantic Provinces - Canada. I worked for Georgia Pacific back then. Well - during one summer day - a pilot had the engine drop out. He was close to the St. Croix River - Between Canada and the US. Pilot road the plane down into the river and settled it on the rocks. Lot of granite down that river. Pilot was sitting on top of a big rock, having a smoke, when the chopper picked him up. He swore the TBM was the safest plane he ever flew. The armor around the pilot kept him well.
Once the Navy got the Mk13 working properly in 44 the TBF/TBM really came into its own as a torpedo bomber. It was instrumental in sinking both Musashi and Yamato.
I live right next to this airport, I have the pleasure to see and especially hear this plane taking off and landing quite often from my balcony, but thanks for letting me to see how it's inside!
Good tour of the aircraft. Great detail, great info from a close perspective of the inside of the plane. Appreciate your attention to all aspects of the plane.
Great video! Nice look inside the plane. For info on the Midway operation of the TBF, read A Dawn Like Thunder. The radio operator was killed, the ball gunner was badly wounded, and the pilot was also wounded. The torpedo didn't drop, and his navigational system was shot to pieces. Basically flew back to Midway blind and somehow managed to land. They shipped the plane back to Grumman for analysis since it was a miracle the thing survived.
I going to award you with the title " Forgotten Weapons of Aviation" . Your thorough explanations of the back ground, operation, and layout of these famous planes is awe inspiring. I can't get enough, Thank You. Ich hat dieses in Deutsch geschrieben , aber Ich habe zu viel vergessen. lider.
Thanks for this doc. It's great to see the plane close-up. My father, having graduated from high school in June '42 and having turned 18 the following month, was placed in charge of a 5-man inspection team of TBM Avengers at GM's Turnstedt plant outside of Trenton, NJ in August. While serving on Tinian Island in '45, he took several photos of the Avengers in the air (which I now have).
Thank you for a fascinating video!! As a child of the '60s, WWII was still fresh and its history a major interest of mine, especially naval aviation. This is the first real look I've had of this classic bird. They were also equipped for the Norden bombsight for level bombing; the sight mount being right behind the bomb bay and operated by the third crewmember. They also used the 11.75 inch 'Tiny Tim' rocket, dropping from the bomb bay and firing with a lanyard.
Thanks for the tour. My dad flew a TBF-1c whilst in the wartime Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm.He took part in the attacks on Tirpitz whilst it was moored in Alten/Kaa Fjord. His squadron was principally involved in dropping sea mines against Tirpitz as well as other anti-submarine work. One aircraft in the squadron suffered an engine failure, on return to the carrier from anti-submarine duty and went into the sea with two armed depth-charges on board. The depth-charges detonated and the pilot was blown through the greenhouse canopy by the force of the explosion . . .and survived.The other two crew members were killed. Your tour gave me an appreciation of just how cramped and difficult working conditions were in these aircraft. I can't begin to imagine how the aircrew could get into these planes let alone move about wearing flying suits, boots, mae west and parachute and fly the aircraft. How did they attend to other wounded crew members in flight ? Obviously, human factors weren't foremost in the designers minds. I believe that post WW2 some of the Avengers (TBMs) went on to be used on the French carrier Arromanche (Previously the British Light Fleet Carrier Colossus) - only gleaned this information from an ex-member of the Arromanches crew who the family met, post-war, whilst on holiday in France, courtesy of pen-friend relationship struck-up by my sister through an independently initiated, school sponsored scheme. Its a small World !
I don't think these fragile aeroplanes could be subjected to the force of a Chieftan trying to get out. He'd break them, and the owners would get politely angry.
Malevolent Kiwi Grumman Ironworks was way to refer to any Grumman made and or designed aircraft. With good reason as they knew how tough the carrier environment was on equipment and also the importance of getting aircrew back as safely as possible.
Thank you very much for the tour!!! Awesome plane, during 1944 the USNavy finally gots torpedo they could drop from 800 feet @ 260 mph. It made for better and safer operations.
Amazing video... And I thought that the Spitfire was cramped inside.. just imagine having to move around in your equipment with war going on around you.. madness.
Thank you. My dad served on the USS Hornet (CV-8) from just before Pearl Harbor to the day it was sunk in the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands. I got to see the interior of the USS Forrestal (CVA-59) many years later, but never saw the interior of aircraft he would have handled in WWII.
+Military Aviation History: Excellent presentation (as usual) of an iconic aircraft. I always enjoy your videos! On a side note, when I was taking some night courses at a Community College around 1987 I met a gentleman who was the .50cal turret gunner in a TBM in the Pacific. He's probably gone now, but I was impressed by his ability to recall details that only someone who had experienced it would know. I've never forgotten this.
So is that basically a ball turret? I had no idea it would be that cramped - major respect to anyone willing to get in there during combat. I think I'd have a claustrophobic panic attack just trying it on the ground. Thank you for crawling into these planes - showing us the interesting things that somehow other videos never cover.
I would quite like it in the bombardeer seat or pilot seat but even though i would still go on other seats they would just be ugly to stay in and uncomfortable
Great video of the TBF. I found this after watching a documentary of the Battle of Midway and was really curious about how these bombers were laid out and I found this very informative. Keep up the great work
Wow--awesome to see the inside like that. I appreciate the work you did on this one, and it makes me appreciate what the aircrew had to go through just to get to their seats!
Built in either the Linden NJ or Ewing two. Assembly plants. My father worked in the Linden plant for 30 years and he showed me the tunnel that ran under Route1 to what was then the Linden airport where the planes were checked and then fueled and flown to the Naval air station for delivery. Great video by the way!! Thank you for all the videos
I live very near the Planes of Fame Air Museum located in Chino, California. Several years and forty pounds ago, I was able to crawl into the ball turret of their B-17, the Picadilliy Lilly. GAWD... at the time, they had a couple of former ball turret gunners as docents. I struck up a number of conversations with Dick Bowman and Wilbur Richardson. I can't imagine what these guys went through. Wilbur is still alive and only very recently left California for the Midwest. Great video, thanks for keeping the knowledge of these machines going on to the younger generations.
EXCELLENT! Thank you very much. My father was in VTN-55 out of Guantanamo. He rode in the back end as the navigator. (He was also a qualified Lighter Than Air pilot.)
Thank you for sharing this video. Seeing an Avenger in person for the first time on the Hornet CVS 8 carrier museum at the Alameda Naval Air Station in northern California (Oakland/Bay Area) was awe inspiring. Firstly, these birds are absolutely huge! I did a double take at their sheer enormity in size! I immediately knew it was an Avenger, but was in shock. The avenger is a big plane. This is the same plane that President George Herbert Bush flew in the Pacific in 1945 when shot down at the island of Chichi Jima (near Iwo Jima), and later rescued by US submarine. The other two crew members did not survive. Again, thank you for sharing.
My father was a TBM turret gunner. His carrier was the USS Ommaney Bay. (CVE-79) It was sunk by Japanese suicide bombers in the Sulu Sea, 4 Jan. 1945, on my father's 23rd Birthday.
There is a tbm avenger rebuilt from the ground up at NAS Wildwood in South Jersey. I remember as a kid in 2005 seeing it in the museum being built and it was finished by 2014
Thank you...thank you...thank you! I have long wondered what the crew compartment of the TBM/TBF was like. I have had the opportunity to do a "walk-around" of the TBM (Chico muni. apt. Chico, CA) years ago but did not have the opportunity to do the "inside tour". Again, thanks for a great video of a fantastic machine that in part most of us owe our existence to today. Thanks to all the WWII veterans that went in harms way in machines such as these!
Excellent video. I love this hands-on stuff. As your reputation increases, I'm sure you'll get a lot more access. After all, your viewers will want to visit the museums or air shows where these amazing aircraft can be seen.
You may not get to get inside them, but at Oshkosh, you get to see tons of war birds! It's always my favorite day because I love world war II stuff, and they fly over like they are dropping bombs, then set off explosives on the runway.
My dad had just finished training as a bombardier/radio operator on the Avenger when the war ended. Thank you for the walk-thorugh (climb-through!?). My dad had talked about how cramped and crazy getting around inside the plan was, but I had never thought to look it up and try and see for myself.
Thanks for video. My father was a radio operator/gunner/bombadier on TBMs. I'm guessing that there were many variants of the TBM because what you described as the radioman's position behind the pilot didn't match his experience. He never sat behind the pilot. In fact, as radio improvements were made and, later, radar was added, there was no room there. That space was filled with gear. The radio operator position was in the belly of the plane. The "Stinger" 30cal machine gun was also his responsibility but they removed them from later versions as they were ineffective against enemy aircraft. The only time my dad was under the canopy was during carrier takeoff. They found that if the pilot had to ditch the aircraft right after takeoff, being down below severely restricted your ability to get clear. There was no seat there on the planes he flew in so he would have to crouch. One airborne, he would work his way down to his flight position.
Great walk through! (Or crawl through?) I’m currently reading through all of the Pacific War history - at the moment I’m still on Guadalcanal - so it’s great to see this plane in detail, given the part it played in that conflict. Thanks from Australia.
This is one of your best videos, to my unspanish dimension way", cause you've being History and technical/ fighting torpedo whole stuff Battle way together...and you fix It great Bismark!
I very much appreciate you doing these “inside the cockpit” videos for these classic warbirds, it’s very cool to see since you can’t really get this perspective from a book or online article. 😄 And thank you as well for attempting to fit into the turret, I know it was a serious pain in the neck for you, but there is a lot of entertainment value to be had from large men attempting to fit into small spaces. (Just look at any “Inside the Chieftain’s Hatch” video, especially the ones on the Hetzer.) 👍
Awesome vid, I had the privilege of seeing an Avenger up close at the recent "Gathering of the Warbirds" here in Waukesha, Wisconsin. It even took off and flew above the stands.
13:27 this position is not the radio operator or bombardier unlike most other torpedo bombers. the radio position is likely the seat you stepped on getting out of the gunners seat. the middle seat is only evident as existing in early tbfs and was filled with radio equipment in later war tbms.
Great presentation as I was just reading an account today of the lone Avenger of VT-8 that survived the mission against the Kido Butai at Midway on 4 June 1942.
Thank you for doing a walk through of this great aircraft! I was lucky enough to go to Oshkosh in a TBM way back in 1992. You do have a few things mistaken... The radio operator was seated just inside the rear door, not behind the pilot. The radio sat on the flat area just below the ball gunner. The radio operator also had a bomb sight in the floor that was usable when the bomb bay doors are open, you can see the window at 6:03. The plane's autopilot system sat in the space behind the pilot. Someone has modified this aircraft from its original design to carry more people (very common).
Precious video and good presentation of a handsome plane, thank you for it. If you forget the war, it must have been amazing to sit under that glass canopy, with the sun shining in and the blue pacific all around you.
Outstanding video, thank you. The one aspect of the aircraft I was hoping to see and learn more information about was the layout of the ventricle machine gun position; especially the air crewman’s body position when manning the gun, his field of vision of the sky, and how he moved from his seat in order to man the weapon. You sorta slid pass this station on your way out of exiting the airplane, and only videoed that area a second or two (video switched to a black and white image of the weapon for the brief moment you indexed the Go-Pro camera on that weapon station). But at that point in your video I certainly don’t blame you for skipping that stuff and wanting to get out of the hot, cramped interior of the aircraft.
Gary W That position isn’t correct in this aircraft, as it’s been modified for flying passengers and is missing the .30 cal stinger gun in the back. The seat here was added later, the original was a bench type seat facing forwards. The TBM I work with has this stuff as original, and it’s awkward. You’d have to fold seat back down onto seat, the. Unhook on door side and swing up to aircraft fuselage on the opposite side, then simply lay down on top of all the tool kits and random crap. The .30 had an ammo can immediately to the left of the bottom door. If the plane lost hydraulics the tail wheel would drop and the entire assembly would block the gun 100%. FWIW the radio navigator was not manning that gun typically, so I’d assume the turret gunner called out targets. I have heard stories of the stinger gun shooting down Zeros sneaking up on the Avenger from below thinking it was a wildcat in the distance. Charlie’s Heavy is indeed one of the finest TBM restorations ever!
Alex Thomas - - Alex, thank you for the informative reply. I’m assuming when you say “this” aircraft was modified to change the layout of the stinger gun position, you meant this one single restoration airplane displayed in the video and not a later follow-on modification of all stinger-gun stations during the actual operational life of TBM/F Avenger program.
Gary W Yup, correct - many TBMs were modified in similar ways, ours just happens to have the folding style (it’s nice for storage and hauling when it’s folded up though. Anyways as far as I know that folding type was exclusive for pretty much all layouts during the war. Same with the second greenhouse seat behind the pilot, that was never there and was filled with radio, radar, autopilot equipment etc.
I crew on a B25 "Panchito". I always get a kick when people get inside or peek in and they are startled at how cramped and uncomfortable they are. Remember they were made to go kill and maim the enemy and creature comforts are way down on the list. They were flown and fought by 19 year olds. Great vid
It's absolutely gobsmacking when you think about the fact that the TBD Devastator was obsolete within 5 years of coming into service. Whereas nowadays we have the MiG-21 whose first flight was in 1956, still in active service today, over 60 years later. Boggles the mind just how rapidly Aeronautical engineering was developing in those days that aircraft could be obsolete even before they entered service!
I must admit well done for getting in that turret! Love the avenger I got to see one in the fleet air arm museum last week and I also got to sit in the cockpit oftheir de havilland vampire t 11 as well :)
There is one of these at my local airport in Culpeper Va. One of the coolest things ever is seeing him taxi all the way out to the runway with the wings folded.
In the early 1980s my neighbor was an ex-USN pilot that flew an Avenger off a carrier late in WWII. His main job was bombing and strafing targets on land. As a pilot he hated the turret and told the crewman to not turn the turret under any circumstances as he said it acted like a giant sail and made the aircraft almost impossible to control.
We have one of these living in our hanger at DXR. (Danbury, Ct) I worked on E2-C Hawkeye's (another Grumman design) while in the Navy. An interesting note is that the wing fold and lock system is almost identical in design, the E2 just being a little more robust. Great video, thanks!
Very cool I always liked this aircraft, one thing it had was a long career with other militaries. We used the TBM-3E Avengers in the Royal Canadian Navy, they were mainly used for ASW and were on our Aircraft Carrier as well as land based.
Hey all, hope you enjoyed this episode! In the future, I aim to make these videos even more detailed, with me going through every nut and cranny. There are a lot of systems on a plane, way more than in tanks, so with the time we had it wasn't possible here.
Military Aviation History hello! I love this video becuase i find ww2 a very interresting subject!
Hey Bis, I don't know if you've ever heard about the Imperial Japanese Army's Submarine, the Maru-yuu, which had some... problems, to say the least.
Just FYI, 100 LL next to a fuel tank means 100 Low Lead in reference to the fuel grade, not 100 Liters.
skullyairsoft80 I was thinking the 100 litres script may have been added when the French used the aircraft but this makes more sense
That's right, the volume is of course set as gallons
It still amazes me the actual size of these war birds
True. I remember the first time I walked up to an Avenger at an air show. I was absolutely stunned by it's size.
At the time it was the largest aircraft launched from a carrier, I think that record stood until the 60's ,if I'm wrong please correct
@@ubb262s B25?
Ok yes , CV8 USS HORNET, I was talking about aircraft designed for carrier operations
That and how some of them still fly
Fantastic video. Not many folks have seen the inside of an Avenger's turret, but now we have thanks to you! I was expecting a fancy computing reflector gunsight though.
If I had to guess, it originally had a reflector sight, but during one of its refits (possibly into its current passenger/cargo plane configuration), the reflector sight was removed in favor of the normal iron sights.
Tsundere_Gaming
I don't know why they would bother replacing the reflector sight, that's just extra work for no benefit.
Probably to save weight. A few inches worth of metal weighs much less than everything that goes into the reflector sight. Again, I'm suspecting this change was done to change it to a cargo/passenger plane.
Tsundere_Gaming if the Navy sold the plane to France they might have had to remove sensitive US equipment like radios and sights
That could be it, I didn't really think of that. It probably is the reason the bombsight is missing as well.
100LL on the fuel tank cap stands for 100 Low Lead, not litres. This is the most common fuel used by piston driven propeller planes. Just for future reference! Great video as always
Yup, it is :)
To further clarify, 100 Low Lead is the modern piston aviation gasoline. In WWII, different formulations were used, generally 130/150 octane with higher levels of lead
Pete Sheppard Thanks Pete! I’ve only flown modern aircraft so I just learned something new. I wonder how the engine had to be modified (if at all) in order to run on 100LL. Maybe it just gets less performance?
I'm pretty sure there were tweaks and reduced performance. Given these old engines were only expected to last a few hundred hours at most, they are also babied meticulously these days.
Also another thing I noticed is you called both the ADF and VOR indicators “compass and direction finders”. While technically true that they are direction finders neither are compasses(if you notice that dial at the bottom you can actually turn that to change the bearing). There’s usually only one or in this case two compasses in an airplane and it’s usually at the top to avoid messing with the airplanes navigational equipment. You can tell the VOR was added in later because it looks so new, and for VOR navigation you actually need to have specific buildings over the navigational point for it to work, which wouldn’t make sense to have over war torn water in the middle of the 40s. ADF on the other hand probably was used, since it was developed before the use of VORs. Fun fact, if you ever wanted to find out where your favorite am radio station was all you would have to do it tune the frequency into the ADF to find it.
Amazing. My grandfather was a turret gunner for one of these during the Pacific Operations. Yes, he was supposed to have been a little guy at the time. He should have been little, because the little smartass forged his father's signature and enlisted at 16 years old. Thank you so much for doing this so I can finally see a bit from his perspective. I remember the stories, but there is nothing like seeing it.
When I was about 21, he took me to Charleston, SC and we went on the Yorktown. He flew off the Lexington for a bit and they were sister ships. He just ditched the tour and took me everywhere. We opened "Authorized Only" hatches and climbed ladders and basically went to every part of the ship. It was funny because this was about 1991 and the ship was crawling with guys my grandfather's age and my age. The coffee shop on the hanger deck was filled with old women sitting alone and patiently waiting for their husbands and grandsons to get finished playing and telling stories.
Did no one notice y’all went into authorized only spaces?
Felicitaciones a tu abuelo. Un joven muy valiente que quiso participar en esos momentos tan dificiles.
Cordiales saludos.
@@Benji1969 Not really. If it had been some kids messing around, they might have said something, but Grandpa had one of those blue WW2 veteran caps on, and they let those guys do anything they wanted within reason.
You sound a little bit like the Chieftain.
I am now calling you the Airplane Chieftain
Needs more "Oh my God! The plane is on fire!" drills.
Fuck yes matey. "The Airplane Chieftain" need to be on some merch too!
PancernyWiatrak How about "The Crew Chief"?
Inside the Bismarck's cockpit
TheRetu81 Plot twist : the plane is actually flying
Great video! In the majority of operational US Navy/Marine Corps Avengers in World War 2, the tandem cockpit position behind the pilot was not used, and in later models, no middle seat was installed. Instead, this area held two large radio transceiver units and other electronics. In any case, the TBM/TBF's radio operator's station was in the tunnel under the turret, facing forward, where the radio interface panels and equipment were installed. The radio operator also manned the ventral .30 caliber machine gun position.
Torpedo bombers were true sitting ducks not only for their bulk and lack of maneuverability, but the flight pattern they had to fly to accurately drop the torpedo. Those crews knew going in they were easy targets and nonetheless bravely carried out their mission(s).
Balls of Steel.
One popped Saburo Sakai! He mistook it for a Wildcat. Grazed his scalp with a .50 cal. I presume. Got that tidbit from "Challenge for the Pacific" The Six month Battle for Guadalcanal by Robert Leckie.
@@TheDustysix i believe that it was a gunner on a Dauntless that nearly killed Sakai.
@@wanyelewis9667 Challenge For The Pacific, Leckie p78. alleges a TBF. Both Wildcat and TBF were mid wing design. SBD was low wing. Sakai had already seen SBD's. The TBF was new.
@@TheDustysix Originally from Samurai! an autobiography by Sakai, Fred Saito, and Martin Caidin.
@@wanyelewis9667 This is the correct answer it was a dauntless we now know, leike was marine ashore, written before current known fact
It’s insane how huge the TBF avenger. You only get too see it when you get to stand under it
Crewing a TBM, it is a normal operation for us to fold the wings. Our hangar is not huge, similar to a carrier's hangar deck, so we ALWAYS fold the wings when arriving back home. The video hints it is a trick at air shows, but most if not all TBM operators, in the United States, still fold their wings to get into and or save space in the hangar. Great videos by the way. 🙂
Thanks for the video, great job. Especially enjoyed the detail and seeing the clocks in mounted in the instrument panel. My father flew his last tour in a TBM. He always shared a story that after the tour, whilst returning home, no crew required other than the pilot and knowing the plane was going to be scrapped he set about removing the clock mounted in the front panel, which he had long coveted. Having selected autopilot he rolled over with some tools and inserted himself under the dash and set about removing it. He soon realised that his flight suit was firmly jammed and he couldn't free himself for what he describes as an eternity. He was sure that after having lived through a war he was going to die in a pointless crash jammed under his instrument panel. He did extract himself but gave up on the clock.
Crewing a TBM with the Commemorative Air Force, I so enjoyed your video. Yes squeezing into the turret requires some gymnastics. We also use a short ladder to help in loading that position.
The restoration is damn good. Though having such a huge and padded seat in the rear position is a bit off. Still on long flights it would be so nice, as your butt tends to fall asleep on the original folding metal bench. Again great video.
These planes were also used as Spruce Bud Worm - Spray Planes back in the late 60's - 70's. Here in Atlantic Provinces - Canada. I worked for Georgia Pacific back then. Well - during one summer day - a pilot had the engine drop out. He was close to the St. Croix River - Between Canada and the US. Pilot road the plane down into the river and settled it on the rocks. Lot of granite down that river. Pilot was sitting on top of a big rock, having a smoke, when the chopper picked him up. He swore the TBM was the safest plane he ever flew. The armor around the pilot kept him well.
That plane is in absolutely gorgeous condition, props to you and a big thanks to the owner for this video
Once the Navy got the Mk13 working properly in 44 the TBF/TBM really came into its own as a torpedo bomber. It was instrumental in sinking both Musashi and Yamato.
I live right next to this airport, I have the pleasure to see and especially hear this plane taking off and landing quite often from my balcony, but thanks for letting me to see how it's inside!
This was great, these "inside planes" episodes are superb. This is unique content, well done!
Good tour of the aircraft. Great detail, great info from a close perspective of the inside of the plane. Appreciate your attention to all aspects of the plane.
Looking at that cockpit, our flight schools Piper training aircraft look luxurious :D
Great video! Nice look inside the plane. For info on the Midway operation of the TBF, read A Dawn Like Thunder. The radio operator was killed, the ball gunner was badly wounded, and the pilot was also wounded. The torpedo didn't drop, and his navigational system was shot to pieces. Basically flew back to Midway blind and somehow managed to land. They shipped the plane back to Grumman for analysis since it was a miracle the thing survived.
Great book. Sounds like they would have had to use a mop to get what was left of the turret gunner (Jay Manning) out of the plane after it landed.
I honestly never knew those planes were that large, and you could move around inside of them. Fascinating.
I going to award you with the title " Forgotten Weapons of Aviation" . Your thorough explanations of the back ground, operation, and layout of these famous planes is awe inspiring. I can't get enough, Thank You. Ich hat dieses in Deutsch geschrieben , aber Ich habe zu viel vergessen. lider.
Thanks for this doc. It's great to see the plane close-up. My father, having graduated from high school in June '42 and having turned 18 the following month, was placed in charge of a 5-man inspection team of TBM Avengers at GM's Turnstedt plant outside of Trenton, NJ in August. While serving on Tinian Island in '45, he took several photos of the Avengers in the air (which I now have).
Thank you for a fascinating video!! As a child of the '60s, WWII was still fresh and its history a major interest of mine, especially naval aviation. This is the first real look I've had of this classic bird.
They were also equipped for the Norden bombsight for level bombing; the sight mount being right behind the bomb bay and operated by the third crewmember.
They also used the 11.75 inch 'Tiny Tim' rocket, dropping from the bomb bay and firing with a lanyard.
This is amazing. My Grandpa was a bombardier in one during the pacific campaign. Id love to get an opportunity to fly in one someday.
ben wilson your grandpa had some iron balls
Mine was a ball gunner.
Thanks for the tour. My dad flew a TBF-1c whilst in the wartime Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm.He took part in the attacks on Tirpitz whilst it was moored in Alten/Kaa Fjord. His squadron was principally involved in dropping sea mines against Tirpitz as well as other anti-submarine work. One aircraft in the squadron suffered an engine failure, on return to the carrier from anti-submarine duty and went into the sea with two armed depth-charges on board. The depth-charges detonated and the pilot was blown through the greenhouse canopy by the force of the explosion . . .and survived.The other two crew members were killed.
Your tour gave me an appreciation of just how cramped and difficult working conditions were in these aircraft. I can't begin to imagine how the aircrew could get into these planes let alone move about wearing flying suits, boots, mae west and parachute and fly the aircraft. How did they attend to other wounded crew members in flight ? Obviously, human factors weren't foremost in the designers minds.
I believe that post WW2 some of the Avengers (TBMs) went on to be used on the French carrier Arromanche (Previously the British Light Fleet Carrier Colossus) - only gleaned this information from an ex-member of the Arromanches crew who the family met, post-war, whilst on holiday in France, courtesy of pen-friend relationship struck-up by my sister through an independently initiated, school sponsored scheme. Its a small World !
Where is the: OH GOD! THE PLANE IS ON FIRE!! Part?
I don't think these fragile aeroplanes could be subjected to the force of a Chieftan trying to get out. He'd break them, and the owners would get politely angry.
Neil Wilson...I've never heard the Grumman Avenger referred to as 'Fragile' before. It was built like a brick shithouse.
Grumman was known for its... solid... designs. Kinda had to be when you give it to a 19 year old farm boy from Iowa to slam onto a carrier deck.
Malevolent Kiwi Grumman Ironworks was way to refer to any Grumman made and or designed aircraft. With good reason as they knew how tough the carrier environment was on equipment and also the importance of getting aircrew back as safely as possible.
Less of a problem than tensioning the tracks though
Thank you very much for the tour!!! Awesome plane, during 1944 the USNavy finally gots torpedo they could drop from 800 feet @ 260 mph. It made for better and safer operations.
Amazing video... And I thought that the Spitfire was cramped inside.. just imagine having to move around in your equipment with war going on around you.. madness.
Thank you. My dad served on the USS Hornet (CV-8) from just before Pearl Harbor to the day it was sunk in the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands. I got to see the interior of the USS Forrestal (CVA-59) many years later, but never saw the interior of aircraft he would have handled in WWII.
+Military Aviation History: Excellent presentation (as usual) of an iconic aircraft. I always enjoy your videos! On a side note, when I was taking some night courses at a Community College around 1987 I met a gentleman who was the .50cal turret gunner in a TBM in the Pacific. He's probably gone now, but I was impressed by his ability to recall details that only someone who had experienced it would know. I've never forgotten this.
So is that basically a ball turret? I had no idea it would be that cramped - major respect to anyone willing to get in there during combat. I think I'd have a claustrophobic panic attack just trying it on the ground. Thank you for crawling into these planes - showing us the interesting things that somehow other videos never cover.
I would quite like it in the bombardeer seat or pilot seat but even though i would still go on other seats they would just be ugly to stay in and uncomfortable
Great video of the TBF. I found this after watching a documentary of the Battle of Midway and was really curious about how these bombers were laid out and I found this very informative. Keep up the great work
Speaking as a US Air Force vet....thanks for singing my service song while climbing into a NAVY plane!!
Great work Bismark! I'm glad you made it out of the turret. I smiled when I saw you getting in it. Good job again!
These videos are great. I can’t imagine how terrifying it must have been in these tight, cramped spaces in combat.
Wow--awesome to see the inside like that. I appreciate the work you did on this one, and it makes me appreciate what the aircrew had to go through just to get to their seats!
Loved this. My Grandfather flew them with the Fleet Air Arm during the Second World War.
Brilliant, gave excellent view of the relationship between the crew positions and information not normally found.
Built in either the Linden NJ or Ewing two. Assembly plants. My father worked in the Linden plant for 30 years and he showed me the tunnel that ran under Route1 to what was then the Linden airport where the planes were checked and then fueled and flown to the Naval air station for delivery. Great video by the way!! Thank you for all the videos
So cool to see this! My grandfather was a radio man on these planes in WWII! Great to have somewhat of a glimpse into what he would’ve seen in combat!
I live very near the Planes of Fame Air Museum located in Chino, California. Several years and forty pounds ago, I was able to crawl into the ball turret of their B-17, the Picadilliy Lilly. GAWD... at the time, they had a couple of former ball turret gunners as docents. I struck up a number of conversations with Dick Bowman and Wilbur Richardson. I can't imagine what these guys went through. Wilbur is still alive and only very recently left California for the Midwest. Great video, thanks for keeping the knowledge of these machines going on to the younger generations.
Beautiful! I love that you've started doing this style! Your presenting is coming along rather rapidly too, it's great to see! Keep it up!
EXCELLENT! Thank you very much. My father was in VTN-55 out of Guantanamo. He rode in the back end as the navigator. (He was also a qualified Lighter Than Air pilot.)
Thank you for sharing this video. Seeing an Avenger in person for the first time on the Hornet CVS 8 carrier museum at the Alameda Naval Air Station in northern California (Oakland/Bay Area) was awe inspiring. Firstly, these birds are absolutely huge! I did a double take at their sheer enormity in size! I immediately knew it was an Avenger, but was in shock. The avenger is a big plane. This is the same plane that President George Herbert Bush flew in the Pacific in 1945 when shot down at the island of Chichi Jima (near Iwo Jima), and later rescued by US submarine. The other two crew members did not survive. Again, thank you for sharing.
Yes! I have been looking for a tour of this plane for years! Great video Bismarck
This is your first video I ever watched and I have have watched 2 times. As an avid scale modeler and military history geek I have to say well done!
My dad was an 18yr old gunner on one 1944-45. He never talked about his time in it. Thank you for the video.
My father was a TBM turret gunner. His carrier was the USS Ommaney Bay. (CVE-79) It was sunk by Japanese suicide bombers in the Sulu Sea, 4 Jan. 1945, on my father's 23rd Birthday.
Keep em comming MAH. Love the effort and passion for these videos.
Thanks Ash, glad you enjoy them
I admire the way you sacrifice for your art. What a struggle!
Awwwe maaannnn. Thank you for that. I've never seen the inside of that aircraft and have always wanted to see. That was awesome . Thank you again.
There is a tbm avenger rebuilt from the ground up at NAS Wildwood in South Jersey. I remember as a kid in 2005 seeing it in the museum being built and it was finished by 2014
Thank you...thank you...thank you!
I have long wondered what the crew compartment of the TBM/TBF was like. I have had the opportunity to do a "walk-around" of the TBM (Chico muni. apt. Chico, CA) years ago but did not have the opportunity to do the "inside tour". Again, thanks for a great video of a fantastic machine that in part most of us owe our existence to today.
Thanks to all the WWII veterans that went in harms way in machines such as these!
Excellent video. I love this hands-on stuff. As your reputation increases, I'm sure you'll get a lot more access. After all, your viewers will want to visit the museums or air shows where these amazing aircraft can be seen.
You may not get to get inside them, but at Oshkosh, you get to see tons of war birds! It's always my favorite day because I love world war II stuff, and they fly over like they are dropping bombs, then set off explosives on the runway.
E X C E L L E N T information AND presentation! Great job. Many thanks for the tour of this beautifully restored TBM. One beautiful warplane indeed.
My dad had just finished training as a bombardier/radio operator on the Avenger when the war ended. Thank you for the walk-thorugh (climb-through!?). My dad had talked about how cramped and crazy getting around inside the plan was, but I had never thought to look it up and try and see for myself.
Thanks for video. My father was a radio operator/gunner/bombadier on TBMs. I'm guessing that there were many variants of the TBM because what you described as the radioman's position behind the pilot didn't match his experience. He never sat behind the pilot. In fact, as radio improvements were made and, later, radar was added, there was no room there. That space was filled with gear. The radio operator position was in the belly of the plane. The "Stinger" 30cal machine gun was also his responsibility but they removed them from later versions as they were ineffective against enemy aircraft. The only time my dad was under the canopy was during carrier takeoff. They found that if the pilot had to ditch the aircraft right after takeoff, being down below severely restricted your ability to get clear. There was no seat there on the planes he flew in so he would have to crouch. One airborne, he would work his way down to his flight position.
You did a really nice job! Thanks for the presentation!
Thanks for the tour! It was really a treat to see the interior.
Excellent Job covering the Avenger. Thank you.
Awesome video. First time getting a crawl through a Avenger. Many Thanks!
Nice work Bis...Most enjoyable.
My Great Grandfather was the turret gunner in one of these. Great to finally see an in depth look at this aircraft!
Enjoyed it immensely. My Dad was a ball turret gunner back in the day aboard USS Santee (CVE-29).
Great to get such a detailed view of the Interior of such a Legend
Great walk through! (Or crawl through?) I’m currently reading through all of the Pacific War history - at the moment I’m still on Guadalcanal - so it’s great to see this plane in detail, given the part it played in that conflict. Thanks from Australia.
All your videos are super fantastic, have never seen anything as good as yours..Thank you!
Bis please do a B-17 walkthrough, preferably one with an intact ball turret you are allowed to get in
Sir kibble I actually got to walk through a b17 when it came to an air show in my town!
Bis wont fit in the ball turret. Ive been in so many b17s over the years. I hate when they add the wooden floors.
jaxxmadine They probably have to do that to stop people tripping over or rolling their ankles.
Sir kibble there is one touring the u.s. the big five-o or something like that
@That one guy And what if you're rolling down the runway and a landing gear goes out. Could be messy.
This is one of your best videos, to my unspanish dimension way", cause you've being History and technical/ fighting torpedo whole stuff Battle way together...and you fix It great Bismark!
Great video mate and bravo to the owner for letting you film inside it
Great stuff. Seeing these machines in the flesh takes advantage of the video format. Keep up with the excellent content.
I very much appreciate you doing these “inside the cockpit” videos for these classic warbirds, it’s very cool to see since you can’t really get this perspective from a book or online article. 😄
And thank you as well for attempting to fit into the turret, I know it was a serious pain in the neck for you, but there is a lot of entertainment value to be had from large men attempting to fit into small spaces. (Just look at any “Inside the Chieftain’s Hatch” video, especially the ones on the Hetzer.) 👍
Awesome vid, I had the privilege of seeing an Avenger up close at the recent "Gathering of the Warbirds" here in Waukesha, Wisconsin. It even took off and flew above the stands.
13:27 this position is not the radio operator or bombardier unlike most other torpedo bombers. the radio position is likely the seat you stepped on getting out of the gunners seat. the middle seat is only evident as existing in early tbfs and was filled with radio equipment in later war tbms.
Great presentation as I was just reading an account today of the lone Avenger of VT-8 that survived the mission against the Kido Butai at Midway on 4 June 1942.
Thank you for doing a walk through of this great aircraft! I was lucky enough to go to Oshkosh in a TBM way back in 1992.
You do have a few things mistaken... The radio operator was seated just inside the rear door, not behind the pilot. The radio sat on the flat area just below the ball gunner. The radio operator also had a bomb sight in the floor that was usable when the bomb bay doors are open, you can see the window at 6:03. The plane's autopilot system sat in the space behind the pilot. Someone has modified this aircraft from its original design to carry more people (very common).
100% agree with most people here. This is "Inside the hatch TBF/M Avenger" ! Please make more.
Precious video and good presentation of a handsome plane, thank you for it. If you forget the war, it must have been amazing to sit under that glass canopy, with the sun shining in and the blue pacific all around you.
I'm watching this with five more minutes to go and you sound knackered :D - it's not an easy craft to move around in for a taller gent, clearly.
Nice to see the working place of Paul Newman who was Radio Operator on the Gruman Avenger during WW II
Outstanding video, thank you. The one aspect of the aircraft I was hoping to see and learn more information about was the layout of the ventricle machine gun position; especially the air crewman’s body position when manning the gun, his field of vision of the sky, and how he moved from his seat in order to man the weapon. You sorta slid pass this station on your way out of exiting the airplane, and only videoed that area a second or two (video switched to a black and white image of the weapon for the brief moment you indexed the Go-Pro camera on that weapon station). But at that point in your video I certainly don’t blame you for skipping that stuff and wanting to get out of the hot, cramped interior of the aircraft.
Gary W That position isn’t correct in this aircraft, as it’s been modified for flying passengers and is missing the .30 cal stinger gun in the back. The seat here was added later, the original was a bench type seat facing forwards. The TBM I work with has this stuff as original, and it’s awkward. You’d have to fold seat back down onto seat, the. Unhook on door side and swing up to aircraft fuselage on the opposite side, then simply lay down on top of all the tool kits and random crap.
The .30 had an ammo can immediately to the left of the bottom door.
If the plane lost hydraulics the tail wheel would drop and the entire assembly would block the gun 100%.
FWIW the radio navigator was not manning that gun typically, so I’d assume the turret gunner called out targets. I have heard stories of the stinger gun shooting down Zeros sneaking up on the Avenger from below thinking it was a wildcat in the distance.
Charlie’s Heavy is indeed one of the finest TBM restorations ever!
Alex Thomas - - Alex, thank you for the informative reply.
I’m assuming when you say “this” aircraft was modified to change the layout of the stinger gun position, you meant this one single restoration airplane displayed in the video and not a later follow-on modification of all stinger-gun stations during the actual operational life of TBM/F Avenger program.
Gary W Yup, correct - many TBMs were modified in similar ways, ours just happens to have the folding style (it’s nice for storage and hauling when it’s folded up though. Anyways as far as I know that folding type was exclusive for pretty much all layouts during the war.
Same with the second greenhouse seat behind the pilot, that was never there and was filled with radio, radar, autopilot equipment etc.
Thank you so much for the interior tour. I have wanted to see inside for years.
THANK YOU! Great Video! Awesome History! Peace & Health
Bismarck come to Poland on 25th august to Radom for the airshow :D
Hopefully not on the wings of a screaming Sturzkampfflugzeug.
I crew on a B25 "Panchito". I always get a kick when people get inside or peek in and they are startled at how cramped and uncomfortable they are. Remember they were made to go kill and maim the enemy and creature comforts are way down on the list. They were flown and fought by 19 year olds. Great vid
Hah, and that being said, the American planes were often the most 'comfortable' so it was even worse in some of the other planes down there!
Great video, your intricate knowledge in so many of your videos is amazing! Well done!!
Another great video. Thank you very much.
My first insight into this plane was as a kid in the mid-70's, building the Monogram 1/48 scale model Avenger, as with most WWII aircraft.
It's absolutely gobsmacking when you think about the fact that the TBD Devastator was obsolete within 5 years of coming into service. Whereas nowadays we have the MiG-21 whose first flight was in 1956, still in active service today, over 60 years later. Boggles the mind just how rapidly Aeronautical engineering was developing in those days that aircraft could be obsolete even before they entered service!
I must admit well done for getting in that turret! Love the avenger I got to see one in the fleet air arm museum last week and I also got to sit in the cockpit oftheir de havilland vampire t 11 as well :)
There is one of these at my local airport in Culpeper Va. One of the coolest things ever is seeing him taxi all the way out to the runway with the wings folded.
In the early 1980s my neighbor was an ex-USN pilot that flew an Avenger off a carrier late in WWII. His main job was bombing and strafing targets on land. As a pilot he hated the turret and told the crewman to not turn the turret under any circumstances as he said it acted like a giant sail and made the aircraft almost impossible to control.
I love the avenger ! Such a good sturdy plane. Thanks for the video !
I didn't know about this story! Thank you for the detailed account, loved every bit!
Best, IC
wow great video... im so jealous you got to see and sit in that amazing plane. you the man!
One of my favorite planes, thanks for the showing
We have one of these living in our hanger at DXR. (Danbury, Ct) I worked on E2-C Hawkeye's (another Grumman design) while in the Navy. An interesting note is that the wing fold and lock system is almost identical in design, the E2 just being a little more robust. Great video, thanks!
Very cool I always liked this aircraft, one thing it had was a long career with other militaries. We used the TBM-3E Avengers in the Royal Canadian Navy, they were mainly used for ASW and were on our Aircraft Carrier as well as land based.
The UK got rid of them in WW2 then bought more in the 1950s to cover a delay in the AEW Gannets coming into service.