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In case you find it a little too easy to simultaneously listen to the language, shadow it with your voice, read in your native language, and glance over at the other, all without pauses and while walking outside, in step 4.5 you add narrow IPA transcription with one hand and juggling with the other, at which point, if you execute perfectly, Stephen Krashen appears and frees you from your affective filter engrams forever and you ascend to the state of a true operating sigman.
Would that be narrow IPA transcriptions of phones or phonemes? Please reply asap because I need urgent advice on this step. I tried your suggestions but I only got Language Simp appearing, not Stephen Krashen, so I obviously did something wrong.
Great I knew this worked! Now I can listen to Mozart in one ear, a Chinese man reciting the Bible in Mandarin in another, while I walk in nature reading about the history of the Plenary Councils of Baltimore in Russian at 2x the speed, while doing linear algebra in my head for my upcoming seminar to my wife's boyfriend about the importance of commitment to your work and family.
It helps if, whilst you are doing all of the above, you can *feel* your hands, ya know. Typing with the left hand whilst signing with the right. I really think the kinaesthetic aspect of learning is overlooked. Oh, hey. How did the seminar go? Are you still in the cuck chair, or did you get your wife back after humiliating her lover?
I have been trying much more audio input and repetition of words with Arabic than I used while learning/re-learning Latin, and I hope that helps with my speaking eventually!
I saw my mother use this technique to conquer English Pronunciation years ago. I asked years later how she lost her Italian accent and she said I didn't I acquired an English accent to speak English. Nothing is new under the sun my Son
I think he's referring to the formalization of the technique and identification of the practice. Why are you trying to sound like a wise sage using common phrases? Super cringe, my son... oof
@@Beholdstylehe's saying that what his mom told him, hence the "my son"... Why tf are you being so negative about something so miniscule though, yikes
As someone with speech stimming since my childhood, due to my "asperger" autism spectrum, whilst fascinated by languages and linguistics, I realize now that I've done shadowing all my life!I will use your lingua latina courses right on as a stepping stone! Thanks again for such amazing content Luke, cheers from Terra Brasilis!!
I did this when learning Spanish back in 1981. Linguists back then called it "tracking." Especially tracking poetry such as Neruda's "Oda al atom." Pequeñísima estrella, parecías para siempre enterrada en el metal: oculto, tu diabólico fuego.
I do the same. I spend a few hours every day reading aloud in several languages. I focus on pronouncing every syllable as perfectly as possible, then move onto phrases, and slowly speed up to read entire sentences. The advantage to reading over learning grammatical lists is that the most recurring words are learnt in a natural way, like a child.
Are you learning a foreign language? If you are. How long have you been learning in such a way? Usually listening and reading helps to improve comprehensible skill, but what you are doing is helpful to speaking skill. I mean have you seen result at speaking so far, so can you express your thoughts?
@@javohirquvondikov3800That is how I start learning, it creates a deep motivation and brings one close to what I consider the core of a language. But it depends on one's goals and interests, as well on one's general ideas about language and literature. My interests are mostly literary, and as it happens I've always learned to read before being confronted with the need to speak the few languages I master. People who need to learn very fast and socialize orally might find that my method fits better a dead language. My purpose and needs make it so that to me a "language" is more the sum of its literature (written by mostly dead people I have to say) than the way living people speak...
For higher intensity, you could play it at 2x speed, the Bible is a really good text for this. Personally, I like to listen to Mozart in the other ear while I do this.(learning Chinese)
Although I lived in Romania for a year and tried immersive classes and grammar books and etc., I never really learned the language beyond greetings, introductions, and food items. I didn't know what I know now about language learning techniques. It also didn't help that all of my friends spoke English anyway so I never had a real need. 10 years later, I decided to give it another go and doing shadowing and scriptorium have really accelerated my ability to acquire the language. There's not a lot of Romanian resources out there, so I do have the Romanian Assimil book (but in French which I translated into English with the help of AI because these are desperate times 🙈) and follow Arguelles' method. Does it take me an hour to do both methods? Yes. Do I feel like a parrot? Yes. Does my hand cramp from all the writing? Occasionally. Am I able to better remember what I've studied, catch the grammatical patterns more quickly, replicate the sounds and rhythm of the language with greater accuracy, feel more confident speaking the language out loud even if I'm just talking to myself, and actually have fun? Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.
Oh my goodness Luke, I love you, thank you! I've been thinking of how to get more input and >output< in Latin, because I've been reading a little for months now but I'm not making any real progress. I was thinking about how I learned English and I didn't need to write "Read chapter X of English Learning For Dummies" in a notepad, I just learned out of habit: listening to music, watching videos, playing videogames, talking to myself (lol). I saw your video on the ephemerides technique and I think it's brilliant too but so far I have been too much of a perfectionist to actually start - even though no one will read my notebook to notice any broken latin! But this sounds more fun because I really enjoy...talking to myself... Oh well, I guess being odd has its perks 😁 anyway, thanks again, this video has been very insightful!
When I moved north from De Cymru I used 'Say something in Welsh' to adapt to the difference between the language which is considerable. As it was audio I would parrot away while cleaning the newly rebuilt house. There was no point in trying outdoors because the river would drown the sound. The flow was much faster than the stuff with pauses you showed. Singing allong is another brilliant way to get the hang of of a language. Thats how I learned a limited form of eclesiastical Latin
@@aguy3082 go for it I'm impressed after using it with other stuff it's the thing that made me speed up my Welsh speaking journey. Just one thing... the creators tell you not to repeat the sentences but only guess them before they say them. I do both so I practice producing speech and then shadowing at once. I think it works the best. And yes singing works too, I have learnt English like that as a kid (Italian is my first language) and I started with Welsh through songs too
i did this with German when i first came here. the way i explained it was starting by making my body speak German... once I got the hang of pronunciation I would also read out German texts for hours even when i couldn't understand what it was! There were literally 20 words per page I didnt know... but I could pronounce them... so i built endurance in the German space ahead of understanding. Turns out I wasn't crazy!
I stumbled onto some elements of this technique when starting with Irish. Ó Siadhail's "Learning Irish" has audio texts read in a quick, natural style from the very beginning; the pace (and spelling!) were intimidating at first, so I tried shadowing the vocabulary lists and the readings over and over, normally while walking around, before allowing myself to look at the text. When I finally got myself to a course in Ireland with native speakers, I'd often receive compliments on my pronunciation, and I think that was in large part thanks to all that initial time spent in shadowing.
@@Justin.9696 “Italiano Bello” is good for this because she speaks nice and slowly, so shadowing is nice and easy. My favourite is “Italiano con amore”; she is just lovely to listen to and talks about places, food, culture and life in general. In her own words: “Questo è il podcast di Italiano con amore, io sono Eleonora e qui vi aiuto ad imparare italiano portandovi in Italia con me.” It’s perfect.
@@evercuriousmichelle I’m not sure if you can see the other reply I made to a similar question, but as an easy one try “Italiano bello”, and as a really lovely one try “Italiano con amore”. It is absolutely lovely.
I wondered how it sounded for a native Korean speaker. Now I know how it sounds for the native Polish speaker. Luke did quite a good job with pronunciation.
As always, a fantastic lesson from an outstanding teacher! Will try this technique with languages I'm stagnating on as well as the latest one I've decided to try. Thanks also for crediting and cueing viewers in to the work of Alexander Arguelles. I'll definitely subscribe to his content.
Shadowing is really a good way to practice speaking. When I was learning Japanese, I first used Immersive Translate to look up unknown words in videos and remember their meanings. Then I will follow the video to read sentence by sentence and practice speaking. After a while, my speaking ability really improved a lot.
Luke, I am dipping my toes with shadowing and I had to make real effort to convince myself to accept the blind portion of it. Coincidentally, I am using Korean as the test bench. I have done some in Italian and French, but it is a very different experience. Thanks for this great video.
This was a great summary of the shadowing method. It is effective but it most definitely a lot of hard work. I use a variation of this method based mostly on music. I just prefer listening and memorizing songs than texts. I'd recommend trying that out.
this looks interesting and very in line with my general learning methods, will try giving it a shot before going to bed every day so it gets saved in my brain quicker while i sleep lol
I have no idea whether you have studied Polish earlier or not but you're pronunciation in Polish is so accurate!! Some people learn Polish for years and they don't have the level of accuracy you demonstrated in the video. And there are people like you who can imitate native speakers so easily. Is it talent or your high phonological sensibility that you developped through practice? There is probably no definite answer but it's just worth looking into!
Part of it is already knowing how to speak multiple languages; I can speak 4 to varying levels (English, Japanese, Spanish, Thai) and that gives me an above average ability to imitate the accents and sounds of a new language. At the same time, I think the brain is better at imitating sounds than you think if that's all you're focusing on, when you're first starting, the language is basically gibberish so when you are shadowing you're only focusing on the sounds and imitating those rather than thinking of grammar, meaning, etc. at the same time.
What you said about progressive application mirrors something I was doing with your LLPSI videos a year or two ago. I would read a chapter with your narration of it simultaneously, then read the chapter aloud. Afterwards I would read the next chapter with your video, and then I would go back to the previous chapter and read it aloud to myself again for comprehension after the exposure to new or more challenging content. Before and after my returning reading of each chapter I would try to write down as many new words and grammatical forms as I could remember to make it more active. This strategy worked really well for me for retaining vocabulary as well as making my comprehension of difficult chapters much quicker and more thorough. For example, if I am stuck in say chapter 13 and find it too difficult, I will read (though it sounds likes an oxymoron) an even more difficult chapter like 14 or 15 and usually when I go back to 13 it is suddenly easier.
Interesting learning method. Luke definitely sounded insane at the start of the video, but I understand the concept behind this, and it makes a lot of sense. I also think the order doesn't matter too much being the first few steps, and the idea of simultaneously progressing at different levels for different parts of the text made sense to me, as it simulates exposure to the language in different formats as in the real world, needing to read, write, listen, and speak in different contexts at different times, with listening and repeating leading the way in front, and reading, writing, and detailed grammar following behind. Because things like Lingo Pie and most other language apps/sites/platforms currently do not support classical languages like Latin, I think the best option for those learners, including myself, would be the content made by people like Luke, Jesse Craft, Alexius Cosanus, Satura Lanx, Carla Hurt, Musa Pedestris, RVMAK, etc which all have many hours of spoken Latin on their respective channels. I also imagined an English learner using this very video to learn, listening and repeating Lukes voice: metashadowing 😂
It’s all too complicated for me. ☹️ I’m so glad the presenter kindly recapped the method at the end. My son recommended the video to me, so I want to honor it. I’ll have to watch it again, maybe even a 3rd time!
@@bffentertainment7848 yes it definitely can seem like an overwhelming method, but I suppose this is for people who are already dedicated and decided on learning a language and are able and willing to fully immerse themselves in it.
I’ve sort of been doing this with Latin songs and translations of popular songs on my walk to work. I become obsessed with one and listen to it over and over until I know all the words. Then when I go to do more conventional study, I find I’ve learned all these new words without noticing it.
I saw this on an old language learning forum by Professor Arguelles. It must have been 15 years ago now. I used this technique with old FSI audio to learn Chinese. I think it helped a lot
I think this technique will help to improve pronunciation not to fluency. Fluency will be improved when you produce your thoughts with the words you know. Even if sentences you made had mistakes, you should keep doing it, overtime it will be incredible as you wanted whenever.
I'll try this with Latin poetry. Love Poetry and learning Latin. I already learned Catullus 5. Since I love poetry, I will learn Latin through poetry. Of course I'm immersed in Latin but the poetry is the fun, fun, fun part!
I have fooled a few conductors into thinking that I'm a very good sight reader by shadowing the guy next to me. I can see how this works because I always stayed in time even when singing a work that I had never heard before.
Well, I am not sure if shadowing is what I did when I started learning English in my 30's. I had never studied English before. It was just a flash in my mind. I downloaded both the PDF and the audibook 1984 of J. Orwell. Very difficult book at that time. I was able to go through the whole book with my headphone in the background, reading and repeting simultaniusly. I was so paticence that every time I couldn't understand the meaning of a word, I used to open a translator and see the meaning of it. When I completed the book my pronunciation and my understanding of English was just great. Is was crazily helpful. It is like a matrix. ps: I never heard about Alexander Arguelles' metod in past!
Trying this with John C. Traupman's book "Conversational Latin For Oral Proficiency," using your audio for it! It is perfect because of the dual language/parallel text format it has which is advocated in this video. I am also doing it for "Familia Rōmāna," of course, and hope to start doing it for "Athēnāze" and eventually for "Ancient Greek Alive."
That’s close to how I’ve learned English when I was like 9-10 years old, with punk, metal and rock album plus video games and sometimes movies . I’m still fascinated about how other languages are working phonetically, the phonological, especially Latin because it’s “dead” and also Finnish, their metal and punk band are so good
When I recently watched the new Shogun series which is >90% Japanese, I noticed that this little "language immersion" was enough to make my brain "Japanese-inspired" sounds, sound sequences and what could be fragments of a sentence. Of course, I didn't have any idea what meant (it probably didn't mean anything), but it reminded me of how great an immitating machine our brains are.
This is great. Funny thing is I recently added Polish language to my phone keyboard, and I have spent more time lately to listen to Polish speech, look up quotes and look at Polish articles together with a translator. But this is the way to go, I will invest time into this technique and try this. Also it took some getting used to, but the "ł" is pronounced as "w". My brain reads it as an L łoł
Sounds like a good idea! If you are looking for Korean foods to eat while learning Korean, I would recommend Maangchi's channel, I learned a lot of Korean food words from her! I prefer the Korean way of eating spinach, which green onions and soy sauce, sigeumchi-namul to the olive oil/garlic/spinach way!
Check thisL English: This student has a book. - no grammatical cases Polish: Ten student ma książkę. - "książkę" is accusative Latin: Hic discipulus librum habet. - "librum" is also accusative. That's why having some Polish-Latin book may be very helpful to you. Of course there are some differences in grammar between Latin and Polish but if you know Latin (and I know that you know) it will be so much easier and more clear to you. Way easier that comparing English and Polish text.
@@robscovell5951 Except for verbal aspect. The formation of perfective verbs is somehow more irregular than the perfect system in Latin. All those annoying prefixes.
Hi there Luke! How You doin? I already try this method and I learned Japanese with! That's very useful!! :) By the way thanks again for the video! You rock! Heheh 😁😉😊
I thought I was insane for doing this. I did this when learning Russian. I would consume media in Russian, such as music, podcasts, news, etc., and just try to speak aloud. I am not a great Russian speaker, but every time I speak to a native, especially if I begin speaking with them with phrases I know are fully grammatically correct, many of them will tell me they had no idea I was not a native until I started messing up with improvised speech, because my accent is true to the phonology of the language.
Quasi-natural languages acquisition. It takes time, you need to be goal-oriented. I find methods like these convincing. For getting fluent in Swedish, I had great success with ASSIMIL.
@@polyMATHY_Luke absolutely! It generally feels very comfortable, and I would even say that one of the things that I dislike about videos especially ones with more or less complex subject it then they are absolutely static. It sinks in much better with a walk and especially in the nature (not a busy city or something). It feels for some reason much more comfortable to proceed what the person is talking about. So I'm always glad when I see someone doing it. Thank you! :)
So "shadowing" is in principle how you learn your native language as a child. Nice forest. I guess it's the US or Italy, though we have very similar ones here in southwestern Sweden.
Shadowing is not just imitating what you just heard. If you know a sing along song, view shadowing as a speak along speech. You are speaking/talking at the same time with the dialogue with what you hear on the timing, tone and rhythm.
@@polyMATHY_Luke I would have to see if there were any advanced parts of this method, but I was more on the idea if you were to learn Korean over a prolonged period, assuming you only use this method to learn it. Like a progress compilation type, assuming something like that would fit on the channel. It probably wouldn't, but could potentially work as a shorts format. Could be wrong.
Maybe this is what I was doing/ have been doing when I started learning Finnish; I started learning it because of music, and would try to sing along to Finnish songs I liked without knowing what I was singing. I still love singing Finnish songs. And both tutors I've had said that my accent isn't as strong as I think it is because of music.
Yes. I don't see this as a particular 'method' but a description of the default way that everyone learns a foreign language. Listen and repeat, and connect what you hear and say with written texts. Isn't that simply the essence of language learning? I love most of Luca's content but I struggle with the claim that this was somehow 'invented' by someone recently.
What about for advanced learners? Is this method much use? For the speaker who can hold a conversation quite well and has some degree of fluency? Is it useful?
I'm late to the party on this video, but Kurzgesagt is a great resource for this. They have the same video in multiple languages, each with a narrator that is more fluent than most native speakers of each language. Of course, you can't use this technique for dead languages like Latin and Sanskrit, since Kurzgesagt doesn't operate in those languages at the moment, but it's a great resource nevertheless.
Regarding step 2, you said it's best to remove the pauses so that you've already seen the whole course? What other reason is there to remove the pauses?
I think it's helpful to point out that time should be measured in the thousands of hours. You must do this several times a day to hit the thousands of hours.
My problem is that i am really good at pronouncing words from other languages but im just so bad with remembering vocabulary and the grammar or conjugations. I can read Spanish out loud with a minimal accent but I have no idea what im saying :( German its the same unless it's those really long compound words
This is super interesting. Sadly I'm a visual language learner, even after 30+ years of speaking English I still have an accent. But I might go and give it a try, thank you!
I completely agree about mastering pronunciation first. The problem with conventional language-learning is that learning lists of words in faulty pronunciation, it fixes that system in one's mind, and one will never get rid of that poor pronunciation again.
Duolingo is teaching me Japanese because the speakers talked too fast when I tried Pimsleur. I learn best by hearing, but I've read that Lingopie works better for visual learner. I that correct?
I do! Many for free on ScorpioMartianus my other channel, and a great deal at LukeRanieri.com/audio (most there for my Patreon supporters) and also my audiobooks store
How literal is the translation into English? Can you fully understand the meaning of every single word with the translation? Or would something like an interlinear translation work better?
10:20 Couldn't help peeking at the page, and the fourth line of the story has a typo. Should be "spokojnie", which is an adverb, while "spokojne" is an adjective, either neuter nominative/accusative singular, or non-masculine nominative/accusative plural. Also, I think "ratować" would be more correctly translated as "rescue". "Save" isn't technically wrong, but the word wouldn't fit in a context such as "save a file".
@@polyMATHY_Luke At least as far as I could tell. The audio has noticeable breaks between each word in that sentence, while your pronunciation didn't sound so "mechanical".
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In case you find it a little too easy to simultaneously listen to the language, shadow it with your voice, read in your native language, and glance over at the other, all without pauses and while walking outside, in step 4.5 you add narrow IPA transcription with one hand and juggling with the other, at which point, if you execute perfectly, Stephen Krashen appears and frees you from your affective filter engrams forever and you ascend to the state of a true operating sigman.
Hahahaha 😅 Yes! And doing it all while -moving at a swift pace!!
Would that be narrow IPA transcriptions of phones or phonemes? Please reply asap because I need urgent advice on this step. I tried your suggestions but I only got Language Simp appearing, not Stephen Krashen, so I obviously did something wrong.
@@robscovell5951 😵💫😂
Great I knew this worked! Now I can listen to Mozart in one ear, a Chinese man reciting the Bible in Mandarin in another, while I walk in nature reading about the history of the Plenary Councils of Baltimore in Russian at 2x the speed, while doing linear algebra in my head for my upcoming seminar to my wife's boyfriend about the importance of commitment to your work and family.
It helps if, whilst you are doing all of the above, you can *feel* your hands, ya know. Typing with the left hand whilst signing with the right. I really think the kinaesthetic aspect of learning is overlooked.
Oh, hey. How did the seminar go? Are you still in the cuck chair, or did you get your wife back after humiliating her lover?
based pfp
now i want to hear a korean guy doing this with english
youd jusr get robotic sounding english
lol this technique has been popular in Korea for many years, just search 쉐도잉
@@adventureguy4119 that's a little racist
They already know English
Look up "Chinese Obama".
My letter comprehension accelerated once I started this with arabic. Much more vocal range I didn't even have the ear to receive.
Ok, this convinced me to try it with Arabic also.
I have been trying much more audio input and repetition of words with Arabic than I used while learning/re-learning Latin, and I hope that helps with my speaking eventually!
do you have any recommandations about what to use as the resources for shadowing in arabic?
This is the best damn integrated ad I've seen in years.
Many thanks! My praise for Lingopie is sincere, and I use it exactly like this for Shadowing.
@@polyMATHY_LukeIt's only got a handful of languages though, so pretty limited
Ive known this method for 15 years, and your summary is the best!
I saw my mother use this technique to conquer English Pronunciation years ago. I asked years later how she lost her Italian accent and she said I didn't I acquired an English accent to speak English. Nothing is new under the sun my Son
Cool
I think he's referring to the formalization of the technique and identification of the practice.
Why are you trying to sound like a wise sage using common phrases? Super cringe, my son... oof
@@Beholdstyle Nothing new under the sun? It's an old Hebrew saying from thousands of years ago. There's nothing cringe about being educated.
@zor5559 such a huge reach, lol. Parroting common sayings probably doesn't qualify as being educated. I mean, wow, you really set a low bar. Amazing.
@@Beholdstylehe's saying that what his mom told him, hence the "my son"... Why tf are you being so negative about something so miniscule though, yikes
As someone with speech stimming since my childhood, due to my "asperger" autism spectrum, whilst fascinated by languages and linguistics, I realize now that I've done shadowing all my life!I will use your lingua latina courses right on as a stepping stone! Thanks again for such amazing content Luke, cheers from Terra Brasilis!!
I did this when learning Spanish back in 1981. Linguists back then called it "tracking." Especially tracking poetry such as Neruda's "Oda al atom." Pequeñísima estrella, parecías para siempre enterrada en el metal: oculto, tu diabólico fuego.
That's very close to my method of reading outloud, then memorizing and reciting the most beautiful poetry of a language
I do the same. I spend a few hours every day reading aloud in several languages. I focus on pronouncing every syllable as perfectly as possible, then move onto phrases, and slowly speed up to read entire sentences. The advantage to reading over learning grammatical lists is that the most recurring words are learnt in a natural way, like a child.
Super
Are you learning a foreign language? If you are. How long have you been learning in such a way?
Usually listening and reading helps to improve comprehensible skill, but what you are doing is helpful to speaking skill. I mean have you seen result at speaking so far, so can you express your thoughts?
@@javohirquvondikov3800That is how I start learning, it creates a deep motivation and brings one close to what I consider the core of a language. But it depends on one's goals and interests, as well on one's general ideas about language and literature. My interests are mostly literary, and as it happens I've always learned to read before being confronted with the need to speak the few languages I master. People who need to learn very fast and socialize orally might find that my method fits better a dead language. My purpose and needs make it so that to me a "language" is more the sum of its literature (written by mostly dead people I have to say) than the way living people speak...
The close up shot of you staring into my soul while speaking korean killed me lol
Me too dude, it was VERY polymathy Luke. I liked it 💀
For higher intensity, you could play it at 2x speed, the Bible is a really good text for this. Personally, I like to listen to Mozart in the other ear while I do this.(learning Chinese)
you had me in the first half
I got that refrence
sounds like some sort of accelerated learning experience
Plot twist, hes the one who posted that video, which is just a excerpt of his training material
I do Chinese in one ear, Koine Greek (3x speed) in the other ear, and absorb the Mozart through my belly.
I'm gonna do this on a bus.
Just in case you better have a sign that says you may or may not summon an old demon from Ancient Sumeria
Please document the experience.
i think Paul from LangFocus said he used shadowing method while on commute in a train/subway/metro when he was learning indonesian
I have done this on a bus haha
@@TheCreedEvolution Pazuzu!!
Although I lived in Romania for a year and tried immersive classes and grammar books and etc., I never really learned the language beyond greetings, introductions, and food items. I didn't know what I know now about language learning techniques. It also didn't help that all of my friends spoke English anyway so I never had a real need. 10 years later, I decided to give it another go and doing shadowing and scriptorium have really accelerated my ability to acquire the language. There's not a lot of Romanian resources out there, so I do have the Romanian Assimil book (but in French which I translated into English with the help of AI because these are desperate times 🙈) and follow Arguelles' method. Does it take me an hour to do both methods? Yes. Do I feel like a parrot? Yes. Does my hand cramp from all the writing? Occasionally. Am I able to better remember what I've studied, catch the grammatical patterns more quickly, replicate the sounds and rhythm of the language with greater accuracy, feel more confident speaking the language out loud even if I'm just talking to myself, and actually have fun? Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.
I have shadowed using your Lingua Latina videos.
Awesome!
Oh my goodness Luke, I love you, thank you! I've been thinking of how to get more input and >output< in Latin, because I've been reading a little for months now but I'm not making any real progress. I was thinking about how I learned English and I didn't need to write "Read chapter X of English Learning For Dummies" in a notepad, I just learned out of habit: listening to music, watching videos, playing videogames, talking to myself (lol). I saw your video on the ephemerides technique and I think it's brilliant too but so far I have been too much of a perfectionist to actually start - even though no one will read my notebook to notice any broken latin! But this sounds more fun because I really enjoy...talking to myself... Oh well, I guess being odd has its perks 😁 anyway, thanks again, this video has been very insightful!
When I moved north from De Cymru I used 'Say something in Welsh' to adapt to the difference between the language which is considerable. As it was audio I would parrot away while cleaning the newly rebuilt house. There was no point in trying outdoors because the river would drown the sound. The flow was much faster than the stuff with pauses you showed. Singing allong is another brilliant way to get the hang of of a language. Thats how I learned a limited form of eclesiastical Latin
How is Say Something in Welsh? I’ve been learning the language for a bit but haven’t tried it yet.
@@aguy3082 go for it I'm impressed after using it with other stuff it's the thing that made me speed up my Welsh speaking journey. Just one thing... the creators tell you not to repeat the sentences but only guess them before they say them. I do both so I practice producing speech and then shadowing at once. I think it works the best.
And yes singing works too, I have learnt English like that as a kid (Italian is my first language) and I started with Welsh through songs too
i did this with German when i first came here. the way i explained it was starting by making my body speak German... once I got the hang of pronunciation I would also read out German texts for hours even when i couldn't understand what it was! There were literally 20 words per page I didnt know... but I could pronounce them... so i built endurance in the German space ahead of understanding. Turns out I wasn't crazy!
I stumbled onto some elements of this technique when starting with Irish. Ó Siadhail's "Learning Irish" has audio texts read in a quick, natural style from the very beginning; the pace (and spelling!) were intimidating at first, so I tried shadowing the vocabulary lists and the readings over and over, normally while walking around, before allowing myself to look at the text. When I finally got myself to a course in Ireland with native speakers, I'd often receive compliments on my pronunciation, and I think that was in large part thanks to all that initial time spent in shadowing.
Well done! I concur that this ends up being very effective.
My compliments on your splendid channel!
@@polyMATHY_Luke Спасибо!
@@russiangrammar Hello
@@eggles an fédir leat Gaelic a leabhairt agus is rúis thu
i feel blessed to have found this video...thank you so much for this amazing summary!
This is soooo much easier with headphones. I do it with Italian podcasts when I’m out walking and it really works!!!
True!
What Italian podcast do you recommend?
@@Justin.9696 “Italiano Bello” is good for this because she speaks nice and slowly, so shadowing is nice and easy. My favourite is “Italiano con amore”; she is just lovely to listen to and talks about places, food, culture and life in general. In her own words: “Questo è il podcast di Italiano con amore, io sono Eleonora e qui vi aiuto ad imparare italiano portandovi in Italia con me.” It’s perfect.
I’d love to hear which podcasts you listen to! I have had trouble finding podcasts in Italian!
@@evercuriousmichelle I’m not sure if you can see the other reply I made to a similar question, but as an easy one try “Italiano bello”, and as a really lovely one try “Italiano con amore”. It is absolutely lovely.
Very nice. You convinced me with the Polish reading.
I wondered how it sounded for a native Korean speaker. Now I know how it sounds for the native Polish speaker. Luke did quite a good job with pronunciation.
So good, wanted to learn a language and this popped up
Fortunatissime!
As always, a fantastic lesson from an outstanding teacher! Will try this technique with languages I'm stagnating on as well as the latest one I've decided to try. Thanks also for crediting and cueing viewers in to the work of Alexander Arguelles. I'll definitely subscribe to his content.
Shadowing is really a good way to practice speaking. When I was learning Japanese, I first used Immersive Translate to look up unknown words in videos and remember their meanings. Then I will follow the video to read sentence by sentence and practice speaking. After a while, my speaking ability really improved a lot.
What is Immersive Translate?
As a Korean subscriber of yours it's quite a flabbergasting sensation xD
Could you understand him speaking Korean
@@unquietthoughts
Do you eat dogs?
Luke, I am dipping my toes with shadowing and I had to make real effort to convince myself to accept the blind portion of it. Coincidentally, I am using Korean as the test bench. I have done some in Italian and French, but it is a very different experience. Thanks for this great video.
The blind shadowing is by far the most essential step. Enjoy!
This was a great summary of the shadowing method. It is effective but it most definitely a lot of hard work. I use a variation of this method based mostly on music. I just prefer listening and memorizing songs than texts. I'd recommend trying that out.
I made some of my biggest breakthroughs after memorising a couple songs in the early days of my language learning journey. Highly recommended
this looks interesting and very in line with my general learning methods, will try giving it a shot before going to bed every day so it gets saved in my brain quicker while i sleep lol
Thx man, it's funny because i'm currently trying to learn korean as well 😂.
I have no idea whether you have studied Polish earlier or not but you're pronunciation in Polish is so accurate!! Some people learn Polish for years and they don't have the level of accuracy you demonstrated in the video. And there are people like you who can imitate native speakers so easily. Is it talent or your high phonological sensibility that you developped through practice? There is probably no definite answer but it's just worth looking into!
It’s shadowing like he said in the video
Part of it is already knowing how to speak multiple languages; I can speak 4 to varying levels (English, Japanese, Spanish, Thai) and that gives me an above average ability to imitate the accents and sounds of a new language.
At the same time, I think the brain is better at imitating sounds than you think if that's all you're focusing on, when you're first starting, the language is basically gibberish so when you are shadowing you're only focusing on the sounds and imitating those rather than thinking of grammar, meaning, etc. at the same time.
What you said about progressive application mirrors something I was doing with your LLPSI videos a year or two ago. I would read a chapter with your narration of it simultaneously, then read the chapter aloud. Afterwards I would read the next chapter with your video, and then I would go back to the previous chapter and read it aloud to myself again for comprehension after the exposure to new or more challenging content. Before and after my returning reading of each chapter I would try to write down as many new words and grammatical forms as I could remember to make it more active. This strategy worked really well for me for retaining vocabulary as well as making my comprehension of difficult chapters much quicker and more thorough. For example, if I am stuck in say chapter 13 and find it too difficult, I will read (though it sounds likes an oxymoron) an even more difficult chapter like 14 or 15 and usually when I go back to 13 it is suddenly easier.
Interesting learning method. Luke definitely sounded insane at the start of the video, but I understand the concept behind this, and it makes a lot of sense. I also think the order doesn't matter too much being the first few steps, and the idea of simultaneously progressing at different levels for different parts of the text made sense to me, as it simulates exposure to the language in different formats as in the real world, needing to read, write, listen, and speak in different contexts at different times, with listening and repeating leading the way in front, and reading, writing, and detailed grammar following behind.
Because things like Lingo Pie and most other language apps/sites/platforms currently do not support classical languages like Latin, I think the best option for those learners, including myself, would be the content made by people like Luke, Jesse Craft, Alexius Cosanus, Satura Lanx, Carla Hurt, Musa Pedestris, RVMAK, etc which all have many hours of spoken Latin on their respective channels.
I also imagined an English learner using this very video to learn, listening and repeating Lukes voice: metashadowing 😂
It’s all too complicated for me. ☹️
I’m so glad the presenter kindly recapped the method at the end.
My son recommended the video to me, so I want to honor it. I’ll have to watch it again, maybe even a 3rd time!
@@bffentertainment7848 yes it definitely can seem like an overwhelming method, but I suppose this is for people who are already dedicated and decided on learning a language and are able and willing to fully immerse themselves in it.
I didn't know this method has a name. Very cool.
I’ve sort of been doing this with Latin songs and translations of popular songs on my walk to work. I become obsessed with one and listen to it over and over until I know all the words. Then when I go to do more conventional study, I find I’ve learned all these new words without noticing it.
I saw this on an old language learning forum by Professor Arguelles. It must have been 15 years ago now. I used this technique with old FSI audio to learn Chinese. I think it helped a lot
HTLAL!!! Woooo!!! How to learn any language. Classic website
I think this technique will help to improve pronunciation not to fluency. Fluency will be improved when you produce your thoughts with the words you know. Even if sentences you made had mistakes, you should keep doing it, overtime it will be incredible as you wanted whenever.
it will also improve fluency because words and phrase will imprint in your long term memory especially if you do it repeatedly
Pues no puedo evitar hacerlo mientras hablas Luke😂😂😂❤❤❤
Thank you very much! Great explanation! Well articulated.
I’m using a similar method, I got this mental skill that keep the voice images echoing in my brain, and I try to write them down using IPA.
You're a legend
@@saintbrush4398 nah, just did a lot of practice, and trying to better myself every day.
I'll try this with Latin poetry. Love Poetry and learning Latin. I already learned Catullus 5. Since I love poetry, I will learn Latin through poetry.
Of course I'm immersed in Latin but the poetry is the fun, fun, fun part!
I have fooled a few conductors into thinking that I'm a very good sight reader by shadowing the guy next to me. I can see how this works because I always stayed in time even when singing a work that I had never heard before.
Well, I am not sure if shadowing is what I did when I started learning English in my 30's. I had never studied English before. It was just a flash in my mind. I downloaded both the PDF and the audibook 1984 of J. Orwell. Very difficult book at that time. I was able to go through the whole book with my headphone in the background, reading and repeting simultaniusly. I was so paticence that every time I couldn't understand the meaning of a word, I used to open a translator and see the meaning of it. When I completed the book my pronunciation and my understanding of English was just great. Is was crazily helpful. It is like a matrix. ps: I never heard about Alexander Arguelles' metod in past!
Thank you for the tip on how it's possible to learn a foreign language if you're over 9 years old!
Trying this with John C. Traupman's book "Conversational Latin For Oral Proficiency," using your audio for it! It is perfect because of the dual language/parallel text format it has which is advocated in this video. I am also doing it for "Familia Rōmāna," of course, and hope to start doing it for "Athēnāze" and eventually for "Ancient Greek Alive."
No way, Luke Smith is now teaching me how to learn languages!
Che bella tecnica! Voglio provarla subito con l’inglese americano e lo spagnolo!
That’s close to how I’ve learned English when I was like 9-10 years old, with punk, metal and rock album plus video games and sometimes movies . I’m still fascinated about how other languages are working phonetically, the phonological, especially Latin because it’s “dead” and also Finnish, their metal and punk band are so good
Really thanks a lot for the idea, new to me ❤
When I recently watched the new Shogun series which is >90% Japanese, I noticed that this little "language immersion" was enough to make my brain "Japanese-inspired" sounds, sound sequences and what could be fragments of a sentence. Of course, I didn't have any idea what meant (it probably didn't mean anything), but it reminded me of how great an immitating machine our brains are.
This is great. Funny thing is I recently added Polish language to my phone keyboard, and I have spent more time lately to listen to Polish speech, look up quotes and look at Polish articles together with a translator. But this is the way to go, I will invest time into this technique and try this. Also it took some getting used to, but the "ł" is pronounced as "w". My brain reads it as an L łoł
łoł - łorld of łarcraft
I’m a big admirer of Mr. Arguelles.
Sounds like a good idea! If you are looking for Korean foods to eat while learning Korean, I would recommend Maangchi's channel, I learned a lot of Korean food words from her! I prefer the Korean way of eating spinach, which green onions and soy sauce, sigeumchi-namul to the olive oil/garlic/spinach way!
Check thisL
English: This student has a book. - no grammatical cases
Polish: Ten student ma książkę. - "książkę" is accusative
Latin: Hic discipulus librum habet. - "librum" is also accusative.
That's why having some Polish-Latin book may be very helpful to you. Of course there are some differences in grammar between Latin and Polish but if you know Latin (and I know that you know) it will be so much easier and more clear to you. Way easier that comparing English and Polish text.
Learning Latin properly at school lays a good grammatical foundation for Slavic languages.
@@robscovell5951 Except for verbal aspect. The formation of perfective verbs is somehow more irregular than the perfect system in Latin. All those annoying prefixes.
@@akl2k7 I know right!
How do you manage with the "looking at translation text" part when sentences are sometimes formed in different order e.g. German and English?
ja im waiting for the language implants! coming soon, i heard...
So do this listening you read Lingua Latina, got it.
Hi there Luke! How You doin? I already try this method and I learned Japanese with! That's very useful!! :) By the way thanks again for the video! You rock! Heheh 😁😉😊
I thought I was insane for doing this. I did this when learning Russian. I would consume media in Russian, such as music, podcasts, news, etc., and just try to speak aloud. I am not a great Russian speaker, but every time I speak to a native, especially if I begin speaking with them with phrases I know are fully grammatically correct, many of them will tell me they had no idea I was not a native until I started messing up with improvised speech, because my accent is true to the phonology of the language.
Quasi-natural languages acquisition. It takes time, you need to be goal-oriented. I find methods like these convincing. For getting fluent in Swedish, I had great success with ASSIMIL.
This makes sense to me.
This is how I learnt the human languages as well.
You must mean your maternal language
@@Cipricus I said what I meant, hooman.
👽 or 🤖 ?
@@that44rdv4rk 🔫👽
@@that44rdv4rk 🛸👽🔥🌍🔥👾🛸
TO SERVE MAN 📓
If all your videos looked like this one (walk part) I would watch them like 10 times each😄
Really? You like the nature walk for the video setting?
@@polyMATHY_Luke absolutely! It generally feels very comfortable, and I would even say that one of the things that I dislike about videos especially ones with more or less complex subject it then they are absolutely static. It sinks in much better with a walk and especially in the nature (not a busy city or something). It feels for some reason much more comfortable to proceed what the person is talking about.
So I'm always glad when I see someone doing it. Thank you! :)
Thanks
So "shadowing" is in principle how you learn your native language as a child.
Nice forest. I guess it's the US or Italy, though we have very similar ones here in southwestern Sweden.
Västra Götaland?
@@tedvendlegard9776 Ja.
Shadowing is not just imitating what you just heard. If you know a sing along song, view shadowing as a speak along speech. You are speaking/talking at the same time with the dialogue with what you hear on the timing, tone and rhythm.
How did I miss this upload? Found out about it from your latest Herculaneum scrolls video! Watching, now.
Will you keep up with this? Maybe turn this into a series or something?
Tell me more; how would I make this into a series, exactly?
@@polyMATHY_Luke Maybe a journaling of the process and progress on your PLUS channel would be interesting to watch?
@@polyMATHY_Luke I would have to see if there were any advanced parts of this method, but I was more on the idea if you were to learn Korean over a prolonged period, assuming you only use this method to learn it.
Like a progress compilation type, assuming something like that would fit on the channel. It probably wouldn't, but could potentially work as a shorts format. Could be wrong.
Maybe this is what I was doing/ have been doing when I started learning Finnish; I started learning it because of music, and would try to sing along to Finnish songs I liked without knowing what I was singing. I still love singing Finnish songs. And both tutors I've had said that my accent isn't as strong as I think it is because of music.
Yes. I don't see this as a particular 'method' but a description of the default way that everyone learns a foreign language. Listen and repeat, and connect what you hear and say with written texts. Isn't that simply the essence of language learning? I love most of Luca's content but I struggle with the claim that this was somehow 'invented' by someone recently.
What about for advanced learners? Is this method much use? For the speaker who can hold a conversation quite well and has some degree of fluency? Is it useful?
I do this when I listen to music, never realized it’s a technique
What kind of audio do you recommend for latin? I know you have a few latin videos, are there any other audio based courses to practice spoken latin?
It’s hard trying to learn Latvian bc not much ppl on RUclips speak it. But I’m still here tryna learn it.
And it is fun!😊
I'm late to the party on this video, but Kurzgesagt is a great resource for this. They have the same video in multiple languages, each with a narrator that is more fluent than most native speakers of each language. Of course, you can't use this technique for dead languages like Latin and Sanskrit, since Kurzgesagt doesn't operate in those languages at the moment, but it's a great resource nevertheless.
Well said!
This would be great on Apple Music / Podcasts! I learned some more French and a little Icelandic imitating Sigur Rós and Charles Aznavour
Ég fæ blóðnasir en ég stend alltaf upp - í engum stígvélum
It’s like the only thing I know but I can pronounce it in Icelandic dammit
Regarding step 2, you said it's best to remove the pauses so that you've already seen the whole course? What other reason is there to remove the pauses?
Wish lingopoe had more languages
Facio saepe et semper multis linguis etiam multos annos
Gratias ago
Alexander vivat
Merci
Vive Jean d'Arc aujourd'hui!!
I think it's helpful to point out that time should be measured in the thousands of hours. You must do this several times a day to hit the thousands of hours.
First!!! Or 10th !!
Dude good video and great advice but I cracked real hard when you make that face while imitating at 04:03
I should do this. I want to know how to read of course, but my main goal is listening and speaking. I want to watch my dramas and be able to travel 😅
My problem is that i am really good at pronouncing words from other languages but im just so bad with remembering vocabulary and the grammar or conjugations. I can read Spanish out loud with a minimal accent but I have no idea what im saying :( German its the same unless it's those really long compound words
Same here
or suffering from Dunning-Kruger Effect
I just spent $220, which is not cheap, on the lingopie that is being pushed. I'll let you know in a week what I think.
Thanks! Do let us know
This was 5 months ago - how did it go?
This is super interesting. Sadly I'm a visual language learner, even after 30+ years of speaking English I still have an accent. But I might go and give it a try, thank you!
I used to do that for German and French songs , didn't know it was a technique lol
I learned to read koiné Greek using step 7
I completely agree about mastering pronunciation first. The problem with conventional language-learning is that learning lists of words in faulty pronunciation, it fixes that system in one's mind, and one will never get rid of that poor pronunciation again.
I could see this being helpful. It’s kind of like muscle memory maybe. So you can speak from a reflex instead of thinking.
Duolingo is teaching me Japanese because the speakers talked too fast when I tried Pimsleur.
I learn best by hearing, but I've read that Lingopie works better for visual learner. I that correct?
So during stage 2 when you say to read it while listening to the audio do you mean to read it aloud? Thank you.
@polyMATHY_Luke Do you have any long recordings of Latin prose?
I do! Many for free on ScorpioMartianus my other channel, and a great deal at LukeRanieri.com/audio (most there for my Patreon supporters) and also my audiobooks store
How literal is the translation into English? Can you fully understand the meaning of every single word with the translation? Or would something like an interlinear translation work better?
10:20 Couldn't help peeking at the page, and the fourth line of the story has a typo. Should be "spokojnie", which is an adverb, while "spokojne" is an adjective, either neuter nominative/accusative singular, or non-masculine nominative/accusative plural.
Also, I think "ratować" would be more correctly translated as "rescue". "Save" isn't technically wrong, but the word wouldn't fit in a context such as "save a file".
Also, at 11:40 I think you unironically pronounced it more properly than the actual audio.
Ah is that so? Good to know!
@@polyMATHY_Luke At least as far as I could tell. The audio has noticeable breaks between each word in that sentence, while your pronunciation didn't sound so "mechanical".
Apart from novelty, what good is it to walk in such a nervous pace preaching a method?
3:44 best part.
3:48 is not bad too.
any tips on where to learns Serbian (website, app etc.)
Are there any good Latin/English Bilingual books to read?
The translation of "Roma in Italia est. Italia in Europa est." is the map.