"Marriage is Bad for Men" (REBUTTED)
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
- In this episode, Trent shares a version of his opening statement with Pearl Davis in their debate on the question, "Is Marriage Bad for Men?"
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Timestamps:
00:00 Is marriage a bad deal for men?
00:15 The wrong target fallacy
92:31 The Anecdote fallacy
03;00 The comparison fallacy
04:10 Exaggeration of the harms of marriage
09:17 Does marriage make men unhappy? 
Развлечения
My wife and I bursted out laughing and couldn’t stop for a good five minutes when you told Pearl, “QUIET! BE OBEDIENT!”
What time during the interview did he say this😂
I cried laughing too. I can't pinpoint the time stamp but was during his opening or the moment he had 10 min to say without interruptions (she had the same time before and he never interrupted her)
Bare minimum, just follow the actual rules of the debate and shut up when you're supposed to.
@@JoseRodriguez-sd2um His closing statements, I believe.
We need a compilation called Trent Horn no context
This is the problem with the transactional model of relationships
You can say ALL relationships are either somewhat transactional or entirely so. People get into relationships because they perceive they will get a benefit out of it. That doesn't necessarily mean sexual or financial benefits, but something. It is not entirely clear to me why even if non transactional relationships existed that they would be preferable to transactional relationships. A potential example of a non transactional relationship would be a mutually abusive and miserable relationship where neither party is gaining anything of worth out of the relationship and you could say they are just being miserable because they are miserable people. I fail to see how relationship would be better than a transactional one where both parties do actually gain something of value.
Which is what modern marriage is to many people unfortunately. It is a transaction that a malevolent party can abuse and benefits from, in this case women. It could easily be the other way around if we saw the same bias given to men.
@@boguslav9502agreed, but not in all cases. Modern approaches to marriage have been deeply impacted by the decay of our traditional values. I think it’s important to consider how deviating from them has had a deeply profound impact on the security of marriage. We live in a throw away society. Statistically, if your parents were divorced your chances of divorcing are increased.
It is true that in many cases the court system is used as a weapon. Unfortunately, it often tends to favor the more aggressive divorcé. This happens with both sexes. I have seen both men and women abused by their ex’s within the court setting. But in recent times we tend to hear more about the adverse affect on men than women. Which is sad, as divorce is such a devastating experience for all.
The sexual revolution and Third wave feminism have done their damage. Feminism has feminized men and given women a false sense of status. The field of promising prospects for marriage have shrunk as our churches empty and our values are demonstrably assaulted. It does seem bleak for those seeking marriage today. We used to court now we date. The struggle is real! I anguish for our youth.
@@DManCAWMastermarriage should be (and really any relationship you have that is outside of professional life) dedicated to helping others, if that makes you happy, good, if helping others and giving of yourself doesn’t make you happy or content of some sort, you should probably reevaluate yourself and your values.
My spiritual director told me a story of a German married couple. The husband was a young academic and had just married his wife, but was then drafted for the war. When he came back, his wife was horribly scarred and had lost most of her limbs in a bombing incident. She told him it would be okay for her if he forsook her and moved on, but he stayed.
This was the love he had vowed. His academic job enabled him to make enough money while also having sufficient time for the care of his wife, and both continued to live to old age. For me, this is one of the examples of how the glory and beauty of marriage becomes apparent. And it doesn't make any sense to describe something like that in transactional terms.
What I found funny is the Pearl by her own argument is unmarriageable and should be silent Infront of Trent as men are "more rational"
Pearl reminds me of that girl that called everyone a hoe until someone asked her if her mother was a hoe..
She said women should be silent WITH THEIR HUSBANDS. Pearly and Trent aren't married.
@@DManCAWMaster she has said plenty of other places that women in general should be quiet because men are better and smarter.
@@DManCAWMaster the only way they are going to get a husband in that world view is if they prove they can be silent.
Men don't expect women to change after marriage so if a silent woman is what he wants, a silent woman is what he'll be looking for
Unfortunately, simps are irrational.
Poor Trent went into that debate prepared like a real debater and he got stuck arguing with a child
Actually oppsite happened!
@@kujayasinghe9199 Pearl came prepared according to you? Peal usually shoot from the hip and never comes to anything prepared much.
@@noorzanayasmin7806 You approve secular marriage?? Does God?? Why didn't he approve of Solomon marrying woman who idolized other Gods??
1 Kings 11:4-11
@@noorzanayasmin7806Pearl made good arguments why marriage is not convenient for men in this feminist system. What is she incorrect about??
@@noorzanayasmin7806Trent saying that christian men should marry former pornstars and that it shouldn't be a deal breaker was insane. 🤡🤡🌎🌎
Red pill influencers don’t want you to find a good woman, because then you won’t need red pill influencers.
Very true.
Wrong. You don't know what you're talking about.
Who are these influencers you're talking about? Name names.
@@nicholasnelson6876that was pretty weak bro
@@ErezElene name names then. You call it weak but you don't have answers? 😏
Making the disease, selling the cure.
I remember a video by the channel Bible Illustrated where he compared Catholicism and Orthodoxy, and said something to the effect that
"Catholic priests are miserable for being celibate, and Orthodox priests are miserable because they are married.
Unless they're monks, in which case they're miserable like the Catholics"
But regardless, it seems to me that people who are single or married are equally capable of making themselves miserable, which rules out the idea that the problem is something as simple as "Marriage = bad". I'd wager the 2 people going into it, and the values they hold and virtue they possess to be a much greater factor.
Right, it's attitude that makes a person happy, not the situation.
I remember that video! I laughed out loud. I love Bojan's sardonic Serbian sense of humor 😆
I remember that video. Literally laughed out loud at that joke - it was very well done 😂
Bojan>>>>>>
“And there are many stories about sad, sick, lonely men, who never marry”
I’m in this photo and I don’t like it
And the funny thing is that many of those stories would be talking about men that actually wanted to get married but couldn't find a partner. It says nothing about bachelor's by choice.
Now that is a valuable conversation that I wish got more attention. I have girl friends (who are not 304s at all) that are in a similar camp.
That’s me. I’ve been told I’m not good enough to find anyone
Yeah. I'm screwed. Haha.
@@DManCAWMaster once a man turns 30, he’ll never find anyone. That’s a fact.
Marriage is the cross.
Celibacy is the cross.
You're gonna get the cross either way, so embrace it and GET ON WITH IT. Carry the darn thing.
Funny and true
Or dont follow a religion and be happy....
@@swebilbo Nah I'm way happier religious.
@@swebilbo haha you completely missed the point marriage is a cross even for none religious people.
When we say it's a cross we mean it's a burden you have to bare.
Celibacy is not a cross for me (I'm actually discerning Priesthood).
It's painful to hear all of this stuff as a 36 year old single man who has been wanting to be married for 16 years now, but I think it's important to get this information out there.
Pray for God to send you a good woman! And get out there and meet people. Be of service to others and you will find happiness, single or not.
@@jackieo8693 I will continue to do all of that.
@@Veo87 God will reward your faithfulness!
@@Veo87 I agree. I’m not single, but I’m sad at how much we talk about redpill ideology online while there’s people who aren’t single by choice that are hurting. We need to have that deeper conversation and support.
See if your diocese has a “young adult” (usually labeled as under the age of 40) group. Then you can meet plenty of people from other parishes that are still reasonably close to you. Many Catholic singles tend to mingle at these types of events.
I actually came into the debate sympathetic to Pearl and went away recognizing Trent as having won, decisively. The biggest issue with Pearl was that she was hyperbolic and portrayed basically all modern women as oversexed slobs not worth chasing at all. Had Pearl moderated her claims, and perhaps more importantly her behavior, she could have done much better. If out of 100 marriages, 35-40% end in divorce you just have to show that 16-6% of intact marriages are chaotic, loveless, sexless, or unhappy enough that the costs of pursuing marriage in the modern dating world combined with the risk of a divorce (which could be messy) does make it less clear if marriage is worth your time. Pearl didn't do that. Just saying that a lot of modern women are awful doesn't mean marriage is bad. It also does, as Trent points out, ignore morally repugnant male behavior. If many modern women sleep around and are getting tattoos, so are at least some modern men. Her argument works more strongly for men who want a more mellowed out and traditional lifestyle.
Ultimately, Trent's argument proved that for those men who get married, and stay married, it really is a good thing with substantial benefits. Married men do in fact live longer and generally have better health in part because there is someone around who cares about their health. They earn more money and are more mature in part because they have a strong incentive to really do something with their lives. They report being happy at high enough rates it seems like the alternative of living most of your adult life single will be worse unless you have a truly exciting and dynamic career. I don't agree with every detail of Trent's argument but overall I do find these topics fascinating and think he came out both looking better as a debater and with a better case.
Good points. Men need something that draws them out of themselves. Persons and purpose. And these go usually hand in hand.
A few years ago I got really into Red Pill and even Black Pill content. I'm a divorced single dad that was in college at the time and struggling financially.
I recognized how angry and defeatist all that content was making my default opinions and perspective so I finally cut the cord and unsubbed from all of those channels.
I'm not saying men don't have issues or that all women are perfect and shouldn't be judged for past behavior (from relationship perspectives) when men are choosing a partner. Im just saying Red Pill and especially MGTOW is toxic by design and is intended to keep men in angry echo chambers, unable to ever find true happiness.
@@georgerafa5041 Reading through these comments and taking time to watch Trent's summation video again I think the strongest case against marriage for some men is that the "search costs" are way too high. It really does seem like there just aren't that many single women worth pursuing right now. A lot of modern women don't want to get married and have high or unusual standards. I think frustrated men need an outlet, but the internet has really only made them more cynical, jaded, and hopeless.
@@CascadianExplorer I find your comment really interesting because I've seen it a lot from single, frustrated males. Yet I go on traditional, religious female-oriented channels geared towards homemaking and see a lot of single, frustrated women making the same claims. I don't understand how these two groups aren't linking up. It's not like they don't have similar values and goals in mind. I wonder why they're not pairing up.
@@dahliaherrod4301 I've got a theory about it and it largely comes down to people having unrealistic and perhaps entitled expectations that weren't or aren't really grounded in reality. To play Devil's Advocate, the women probably want 'Church Chad' to wife them up where that's simply not feasible because most 'Chads' don't go to Church. For the men it's probably something of a sexual nature and related to pr0n (possibly). Both are in a pursuit after their respective dopamine rushes. I suspect that there's also some cultural immaturity here at play as well.
I will quote a friend of mine, prior to him actually meeting his wife, "I can either find a girl who shares my faith, but not my interests, or I can find a girl who shares my interests but not my faith." This, I think for most people, is a major deal breaker. If I can't relate to my would-be spouse outside of the desire for sex and dogmatic orthodoxy (read, not a heretic, and it's largely for the purpose of raising children), I've really got to evaluate why I'm in this at all. (For the record, I'm not and never have been married, and for what it's worth, given my experience and goals, largely seems like it would be a source of conflict due primarily to non-aligned interests).
Pearl was so obnoxious to listen to in this debate
And she lies!
She is right. Look at the statistics, look at MGTOW
@@AS-np3yq she is wrong! Listen to Jesus Christ and the church he founded! And also the statistics too if you want they also refute pearl as Trent lays out in this very video.
@@AS-np3yq look at all the statistics. Did you even listen to this video?
@@AS-np3yqmgtow is feminism for men. It turns boys into a victim class while blaming their problems on their "oppressors" (women).
Can confirm that both my husband and I were in pretty sorry shape before we got married. We’ve become much better people thanks our marriage.
I cannot believe I used to think this way about marriage. The reason I don't want to get married is because of the divorce courts. These people are so good at feeding people's fears. I fell off the red pill and mgtow train because I realize that it made me grew bitter about life and women despite the little truth in it. Finding God and reading scripture made me see the errors of the red pill and the error of my ways. Even though I choose to be celibate, I don't mind getting married one day. The Red pill how I see it is this analogy "they have the right diagnosis but the wrong prescription".
Makes one understand how Marxism or Feminism became so successful.
Right there with you. I NEVER thought I’d be reading the Bible after my red pill phase😅
I’m so happy to see comments like this, it brings me a lot of hope for the future families and kids, because kids are the ones who will be suffering the consequences from the red pill and feminist agenda.
If people like Pearl treated every life decision like they treat marriage, these people would do nothing at all. They would be in a constant state of analysis paralysis. But they don't treat other issues and life decisions the same way. It's so odd.
Exactly! And how absurd was it for her to say men should be afraid in a situation because SHE would be afraid? I just want to remind her that honey, how YOU would feel is irrelevant because women are generally more risk averse. That's just how we're built. But she really thinks she can speak for men, doesn't she?
Totally agree.
Well said!
Preach it, sir.
Yup, why start a business when I can collect welfare and survive, I mean most businesses fail yet I can easily collect a government check and not risk having to pay back an expensive business loan
I knew becoming Batman wasn't insane
Fun trivia: Batman is canonically supposed to be a Catholic so it's somehow more fitting that Trent went for that as his example
We all know what Batman really is.....
@@user-zt4mw1ei3i Vengeance?
Me, pausing video to google “Is Batman Catholic”
Unfortunately, the divorce rate is probably dropping because the marriage rate is also dropping.
The silver lining is that this means that the lack of marriage is disproportionately affecting people who wouldn't take marriage seriously anyway
Actually, the divorce rate PER marriage is dropping.
Wait, what? LOL, the divorce rate is counted as per marriage.
The question is is do we see this as a good or bad thing hmm 😆
So if 30 out of 100 marriages failed that would still be the same percentage as if 3 out 10 marriages failed right. And your response it well less people are getting married lol
I think they put a bad light on marriage because there are some people in the world that bastardize marriage and don’t take it at face value. Marriage is a good thing, always will be. People are the ones who make it bad.
But I think there is a huge point to be made about the states involvement in marriage, at this point the rules of marriage, the huge bias for women, has attracted a huge plethora of bad actors. "Just choose a better partner" doesn't answer the question of why so many marriages fail and why women are so eager to divorce.
@@boguslav9502 it’s a societal thing. that’s literally what I said.
@@CatholicGunGuythis is why the red pill is popular. Catholics like Trent do not give enough time to any form of advocacy to take marriage away from the state.
Pearl on the other hand, though catholic, will admit she doesn't practice as much as you would imagine that Trent those, however, she does advocate for a change in the laws of how marriage is being done.
Not when women leave 70 to 90% of the time.
It would be cool to see you make a video about grifting behaviors and how to spot a grifter. I'm not sure Pearl believes everything she says. I think she enjoys the money she makes from the rage baiting. She can't break down any of her beliefs or make arguments, she only repeats the same sentences and slogans over and over.
She seems to me like a damaged girl who found a way to make money out of it. It's a vicious and dangerous cycle. It will not end well for her in the long term.
I commented on the debate: Pearl says that women should submit to men in marriage, while basing her entire argument on secular marriage alone. But that idea comes from religious marriage, and comes with the expectation that men should love their wives the way Christ loves the church.
Who had the worse deal: a husband screwed by divorce court or Christ hanging on the cross?
Oh my gosh, this bothered me SO much because she constantly rags on "trad wives" for not being obedient like the Bible commands, ignores what the Bible commands of husbands, but also in her argument with Trent still brought up how women should obey their husbands while saying she was only coming from a secular perspective.
Women being submission to men long predates the Bible. Pagan cultures believed that. Jesus also got to rise from the dead in a godly body, what good do men get out of divorce court?
Also you seem to forget that part of Christ's love for the church was chasing people out of the temple and flipping over tables.
St. Peter, the first Pope from whom the Chair of St. Peter is named, declared that:
"Women should be obedient to their husbands, even if their husbands are cruel to them. Their obedience will draw their husbands to repentance."
The very *moment* you say "women's obedience is relative to the mans capacity to act like Christ" you have robbed the husband of all power.
At any point, a woman can justify being disobedient because her husband wasn't "acting like Christ."
That makes her the arbiter of "Christlike behavior."
That leads to "Christlike behavior" becoming whatever the wife deems it as, which ultimately leads to men exhibiting "wifelike behavior."
You're part of the problem, if you believe women should "only be obedient" when its convenient for them.
@WilliamMcAdams robs the man of power? But what if he really isn't being Christlike? Should she be obedient in anything he says, even if it isn't actually Christlike, like encouraging sin, because you make it seem like he's the one that decides what is and isn't Christlike.
@@whatever1068 You're not a serious person. No serious person would ask such an aloof question.
I found it especially interesting how Pearl tried to rebut the point about overweight men by saying it's more a woman's job to be attractive than a man's (the man's job is to protect and provide). Even if we grant that premise, a man who is out of shape is less capable of protecting and providing than a man who's taken care of his body.
I’m overweight and I disagree. I could provide for someone, but women don’t like overweight men at all
There is an element of truth to her statement that women derive extrinsic value from beauty while men don't really. Men's extrinsic value is generally more related to competence. But you get to the same conclusion that both sexes should be in good physical shape
@@Mashfan6507I live in the Midwest. I see fat couples everywhere. So clearly fat people are getting it. But yes, generally, a fit person doesn't want to be with an unfit person, so if you're fat but aren't attracted to other fat people you're out of luck.
It is in your best interests to get in the best shape you can, if not to make yourself more attractive then for the myriad health benefits that eating healthy and working out bring. Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit and we are to honor God with our bodies. I know that it's challenging in this lazy, hedonistic culture we're stuck in, but success breeds success, and once you get into the habit of living a healthier lifestyle it's hard to go back.
@@NMemone well I’m in the northeast and I barely see that. I would happily date a bigger woman, but even they won’t date me. I keep saying I’m going to eat better and exercise, but then I don’t have any discipline to do it because I get discouraged. I’d only do it to find a woman. I don’t care about my health that much if I’m going to be alone because what’s the point of prolonging a life I don’t want to live? I have been trying to lose weight and cut back on junk but that’s what makes me feel better. Working out has never helped me feel better.
@@Mashfan6507 Disagree with what exactly? I simply said that being unhealthy makes you less capable of providing for and protecting someone than being healthy...
I went through a period of extended adolescence in my 20s, when I didn't make much progress toward long-term savings or any other important life goals, and when I failed to completely grow up and act like an adult. But when I got married in my late 20s, and when soon after that we started having children, that all changed. I became more mature and responsible, I made a better salary, I stayed employed more consistently, and I saved more for retirement and other future needs. I saw the exact same changes in my brother when he got married and had children as well. And those are just some advantages in terms of personal maturity and finances; I could list numerous other advantages that came from getting married.
Trent, I just want to say a big thank you. I did not love the debate out of taking pleasure in how Pearl performed. I loved it because of how you stood up for real human dignity, equality, and truth.
Thank you so much, Trent - your videos have been instrumental in my journey back to the Catholic faith. May God bless you!
What i see about these podcast redpill types, is that they notice there is a problem, and instead of trying to solve it for real, they become the other side of the same toxic, self-centered and society destroying coin. Videos like this are essential in bringing light to the subject.
It's like they keep telling someone they have a flat tire but instead of helping they insist that fixing the tire is too risky because driving is unsafe and they could get scammed by a mechanic and they are better off staying stranded on the side of the road.
Trent you did a great job during that debate. Held your composure, had great responses to the Red Pill rhetoric, and showed that all they really have is leftist-like arguments. Keep up the great work and God bless you and your team.
I mean Trent is the one that had Feminists points. He talked about divorced men's suicide and said "Well men just complete suicide more". Feminists make the EXACT same argument to dismiss men's depression and suicide and put the focus on women.
@@DManCAWMaster Starting any sentence or argument with "I mean" is very feminine and instantly makes me disregard anything you have to say afterward. Best of luck my friend.
@@DManCAWMaster No, he is saying that men are more prone to suicide due to divorce, not that they have an inclination towards it. Feminists, Satanists, Christians, can have the exact same argument for anything--this does not mean that it's false argumentation. The goal of the argument can be disordered, but Trent's is clearly not.
@@Jay_Ira Oh goodness the irony
@@DManCAWMaster I think Jimmy Akin would've been much better for something like this. No offense to Trent, but he doesn't seem to take his opposition seriously which is why we get someone like Hannah Pearl Davis and not Aaron Clarey, Terrence Popp, or Better Bachelor to have a discussion with.
I think singleness can be a blessing as long as one is not engaging in promiscuity. The problem is many people want the benefits of marriage, but not the commitment. They want to have their cake and eat it.
I think this is essentially what the red pill community advocates for. They want men to be promiscuous and women to be pure. Make that math make sense.
This debate was a false dichotomy. Marriage needs to be permanent and divorce needs to be out of the question, but that's not what Trent put forward. He argued that yeah, marriage can end in divorce and can sometimes ruin a man's life, but it USUALLY doesn't so men should do it anyway. What an utterly unconvincing argument. The solution is to get a real, permanent marriage in the Church, not to sign a conditional legal contract.
I separate marriage as a government contract and marriage as a religious institution
Yeah, Trent missed the plot.
People hate Pearl so much, they are completely overlooking how poorly Trent did.
The thing is not that marriage is always bad for men, but many Catholics and other Christians tout marriage as so great but then give little or no advice or comfort to men like me who will never find anyone to marry. I know I’m not good enough for anyone, so how do I handle that?
THIS is the kind of conversation that is being disinfranchised by the debate over redpill and feminist ideology.
@@RachelDee thank you! I’ve basically had to accept the fact that I’m not good enough for any woman and never will be. I would’ve loved to find someone but now it’s too late. I’m too old and all the good women are taken. Yet all I hear are lies about “oh you’ll find someone” when it’s all bs. I’m trying to figure out how I’m going to live with these feelings of inadequacy for the rest of my life
I think this is an underrated take. There is a non-trivial minority of men (especially young adult men) who really can't seem to find anyone to marry. The "red-pill" online community preys on them by stoking their fears and resentments. Feminists just dismiss all single men as hopeless and bitter losers getting what they deserve. Real world Christians and conservative just tell them to man up and do better. The most likely actual outcome of this is we just enter an age with lots of lonely men who aren't married but want to be. The Churches need to help those who are not called to monastic life but end up alone (men and women).
@@CascadianExplorer thanks, yeah and it’s a big problem. I bought into the red pill lies for years and only coming back to my Catholic faith did I see how wrong it is. People tell me to improve myself and give all kinds of contradictory advice, but it doesn’t help. Yeah I think that’s what’s going to happen to me sadly. I’ve given up, and now I have nothing to look forward to in my life. I pray for all these men.
@@Mashfan6507 oh, yeah the false promises thing isn’t helpful. If you’re of good conscience that it’s not due to anything within your control, that’s a big thing to grieve and work through. A really hard calling to be sure, even if it’s used for good that you wouldn’t be able to do if you were married
It seemed that during the debate Pearl undercut her own argument by defining marriage as "one person, for life, with an obedient [spouse]". If that is what marriage is, how is that a bad deal for men? Or women? What she seemed to be actually arguing is that infidelity, divorce, alimony, child support, etc. are bad deals for men. Which I can agree with. But none of that is what "marriage" is. I think it would be similar to arguing that eating food is bad deal on the sole basis that one might choke, get food poisoning, and/or have a severe allergic reaction. (Not a perfect analogy but the point seems clear to me..)
That's a good analysis. Divorce is bad, but marriage is not.
@@sassychimpanzee7431 Pearl has said men should not get married UNLESS the law changes and then they should.
It's a very bad analogy because you fail to account for the rate of choking as compared to the rate of divorce.
Another point, yes divorce might be the issue, but you don't get there without marrying. The only way to defeat red pill is for the Catholics to encourage church weddings and seek the removal of the state from such marriages.
While we want divorces to end, we also want more people to get married and if the fear of divorce is stopping people then it must be solved. No way around that
The conversation is pointless, marriage is not about the couple, is about the children. Marriage and family are to protect their offspring. That doesn't mean that love and loyalty are not key, it just mean that we have a better grasp on it when the focus is not "my happiness", but the well being of my whole family.
The cool thing about it being about the well-being of the whole family is that your happiness is included in that.
No, it's primarily about the couple. It binds the couple as long as they live, not as long as there are children.
Pearl is a great example of what i think is a grifter, she breaks every rule she puts up as she speaks about it. However there is a genuine diacussion to be had, some people can effectively argue that women in todays world are married to the state and this is a huge issue, it attracts bad parties and gives bad motivation. However pearl does not make this argument, she is a weird inversion of "thot culture" and really shows how far "the red pill" has fallen.
Pearl's plane analogy is so bad. It just shows she doesn't understand risk/benefit analysis. I would definitely get on her plane. 20% of paradise, 5% chance of crash and burn, leaving 75% chance of just ending up marginally better or worse I suppose?
The odds are in favor of the beneficial outcome, and the risk is extremely low.
Another thing is also that it's not like your outcome is entirely independent of you. These 20% paradise folk probably faced 100% of the suffering within their marriage and their own character flaws. Those 5% crash and burn probably close to 0% of either.
If "not getting on the plane" includes proper continence, it's fine. If not, it significantly increases the odds of a much worse outcome.
@@jdotoz yeah, not getting on the plane for most red-pillers means trying to trail behind the plane in your own flying machine you built in your garage from an old bicycle and a paraglider.
lol women leave men ALL the time. Wake up!
@@FatalS420 well, I never said otherwise
The red pill world has grains if truth in it as it notices real problems with society has turned men into. The issue is their solution is to not do anything about their insecurities, and try to just cover them up with materialism and primate level approaches to hierarchy games and appetites.
Amen
That's the devil's trick, offer you a grain of truth in a bag of lies. Unfortunately this movement is beyond repair. The ammount of materialistic, egotistical lunatics who are mostly seeking revenge on the other sex, and the ammount of grifters trying to outdo each other, just made me just avoid all of them. Now i take the christpill.
@@matsanw Well I guess that's the real trick now isn't it? What's the truth and where's the lie? Revenge on the opposite sex? Are you talking about Red Pill Rage? I get that, however I wouldn't go as far as claiming that's a desire for 'revenge', though I suppose given enough time in that state, it could become that.
I would say that MGTOW is more of a strategic withdrawal for men from the dating / romance sphere, though in some cases, in society in general. However, that is not 'vengeance' anymore than prohibiting one's children from interacting with drug addicts is 'revenge' against those who suffer from addiction.
If you're talking about some of the other sub-groups of the Red Pill that have men trying to 'pump and dump', yeah... that's not something I can endorse and is largely contributing to the problems we currently have.
Women do that all the time lol
The most important decision any person can make is whom they marry. It is very challenging, and people are often ill-prepared. You shouldn't go out with people and have sex until you find one that you really like. Instead, you should date only with the intention of marriage, invest time, hold off on sex, and get to know the person. The younger the couple, the higher the probability of success. Additionally, the fewer sexual partners each person has had, the higher the probability of success. Sharing the same religion and values also increases the probability of success. The problem isn't marriage-marriage has worked for more than 6,000 years. The problem lies in how we are choosing our partners.
Great points. And it's also not like that you've done it with the right choice. Then the real work begins. On your own character, on your marriage, on the upholding and preservation and growth of love. The beautiful thing about love is that you can say "yes" again and again and again. That's also the hard thing about it.
I agree that young marriage is good, but older marriages actually have lower divorce rates. The lowest % are in the late 20s - early 30s group.
@@callunas After the age of 32, the risk of divorce begins to increase by about 5% per year. If the number of previous partners is high (five being considered high), the increase is by 10% per year. People who grow up together in their 20s have the best life, share more dreams, and last longer as a couple. Additionally, their kids are also happier. Nature (God) never fails. A woman starting her marital search at 34 is already doomed, I'm sorry.
@@jorgen7180 Which is exactly what I said. "The lowest % are in the late 20s - early 30s group."
If any young person is deprived of marriage and family because of what these people say, these anti marriage people will have to answer to God.
And YOU have to answer to God why you ignore the problem of men in finding a good women and how the state incentvise scam artists to play as brides.
We have a HUGE problem and it is ignored.
This is the earliest I've ever been to anything!
It all just sounds like divorce is what's actually bad for men and women.
Yeah and not getting married means you don't get divorced.
This is correct and should have been what the debate was about
On the other hand, I’ve read that the happiest people in the world are single, childless women! 😂
Yeah, the fact Trent Horn is citing "modern studies" to defend his case is... well... goofy.
These "studies" literally just say the goofiest stuff, and people eat it up.
Pearls "studies" are more inline with people's lived experiences.
Its easy to see 50% of marriages ending in divorce, men forcibly passing on after divorce, men losing custody constantly, men being miserable after divorce, men being stressed over child support, etc.
If I sat down and wrote out the examples I've seen over my life, I can fill in the blanks -- and the felt experience seems a lot closer to Pearls "statistics" than Trents.
I wheezed of laughter when Trent shushed Pearl and cooked her when she interrupted him for like the 5th time during his closing statement
I don't see how one can generalise about the experience of tens of millions of men. For a lot of men, marriage is probably a horrible experience. Just as it for a lot of women. One cannot "rebut" real, and bad, experiences. Trying to do so, trivialises the woes others suffer. Which reflects very badly on those who do that, as it should.
Correct.
Pearl is a grifter, but she's considered a "voice" for these young men who are legitimately struggling.
Trent Horn failed, and continues failing, to be a voice for these young men.
The 'target' audience of this debate was skeptical young men (so Pearl's audience.)
Trent didn't "win them over" by utterly dismissing every concern they have.
Any skeptical young man, who listened to their debate, is probably more rooted in their skepticism because of Mr. Horn's behavior.
He's not even comfortable saying "men can have standards" without putting a caveat after every word.
Getting married early next year! 😊❤
Congratulations
They have such a materialistic view of marriage, it's revolting. Imagine describing kissing someone you love as "pressing our mouths together" it's so clinical that it's degrading. Also, they have no respect for femininity at all, no respect for what it takes to be a good mom and homemaker, no respect for the work. I'd be miserable if I were married to a man who thought about me like a glorified sex doll and would leave me if I gained 20 pounds. I've been with my husband for a decade. We started dating as teenagers and he's the only man I've ever even kissed. We're incredibly happy and we have 4 kids. I'm a homemaker and I homeschool the kids,
Im sorry but a lot lawyers tell men not to legally pursue their children which is why that stat for men pursuing their children is low.
As he said, that is not strictly related to marriage and divorce because people have children and custody battles out of wedlock.
Right because all the black dead beat fathers in the inner city who hook up and leave the girl pregnant are definitely consulting with lawyers 😒
I keep seeing this and until I have some type of real evidence and not just "they said". I'm going to stop even considering this as a real argument
@@abandonrz oh I agree with him on every other point but that one but I've seen it first hand happen.
Well said. Perhaps a better analogy (than the airplane vs. car) would be, you're on a small island with a volcano about to erupt. There's a pretty decent chance the lava won't reach you, but you could also take a plane to another island. Sadly there are no boats left. Risks either way, and the plane ride might take more money than you had planned on spending, but even still you might be better off taking your chances with the plane than the volcano.
I agree marriage is good trent.
But a lot of young men cant find a girlfriend or even a date.
Everyone should read the poem "If" by Rudyard Ripling
I think Trent doesn't seem to get the arguments made, often because red pillers are not arguing in the same "plane" or context. There's a difference between the nature of men and women. There's also the issue that the ideal of holy matrimony has to be contrasted with the reality of modern western women. Pearl or Myron wouldn't have been my choice for that debate.
Recommend everyone (Catholic or not) read The Culture of Narcissism by Christopher Lasch. It was written in the late 60's/early 70's, but it honestly could've been written yesterday - the overarching theme of it is what Lasch observes as a type of narcissism, a kind of "self-obsession" or "perpetual self-reference" prevalent throughout Western (but specifically American) culture, with him breaking down how this manifests in different spheres of society (education, sport, childrearing, relationships, marriage, religion, politics). Being a historian (with a sociological focus), Lasch hones in with that lens more than anything else, though is distinctly Freudian (and perhaps slightly Marxian), yet he arrives at several conclusions that the social conservatives (or, these days, the "trads", the actual trads, not the aesthetic trads) have been saying all along.
I'd say even the title of this debate, "Is Marriage Bad for Men", presumes a transactional view of relationships that Catholics and post-left authors such as Lasch and Mark Fisher would find abhorrent. From a Catholic perspective, if a man found himself in a Job-like situation where his vocation of marriage made him miserable or was not otherwise good for him, would he have an obligation to stay in it? I would say yes.
A better topic for debate would be "are relationships necessarily transactional?"
Oh, and Trent, you won this debate easily. As someone who was tangentially involved in the manosphere probably over 10 years ago, some of Pearl's points perked up my ears in the ways I used to think, but the entire sphere has devolved into something even more cringe than feminism (something I would not have believed if you told me 10 years ago).
all relationships are transactional
@@SenorCinema That's false, but it's an easy way to view relationships, so you're going to stick with it.
@@newglof9558 It is transactional. Doesn't necessarily mean financially or sexually transactional. People get into relationships because they expect they will get something good out of it.
@@DManCAWMaster your view of relationships presupposes your own hedonism. Maybe it's philosophical hedonism, but it's hedonism nonetheless.
@@newglof9558 So what you're saying is you don't expect good things to come out of relationships you get into?
There’s a huge gap between what the secular world means by marriage and what the Church means. The problem is that comparatively few people (along with societal institutions) no longer acknowledge the sacramental nature of marriage. It’s a mistake to pretend that the word means the same things in all contexts.
Talking about marriage, a famous songwriter sang: Love is not an eternal doubt. Great episode and argument!
Very good summary of your debate opening argument.
Leave it to Trent to work in a Batman reference to defend his argument against Pearl. Well done. 👏
Thanks for the video, Trent!
That poor dude on the computer with a neat haircut…..he was featured twice as the ‘lonely unmarried man’. Put yourself out there man!
Easier said than done.
Not even young guys are able to find a date.
You're telling me either I can be married or be Batman? I'm going to have to think about this one...
God bless you Trent. This was such an amazing and God breathed video.
Thank you for this video! I am so sick of hearing grown men and women whining marriage
What is wrong with bachelor minimalism? How is the notion that your wife will want more furniture in any way an argument in favor of marriage for men?? "Well, you don't want or need a lot of stuff, but your wife is going to want a ton more stuff!" Ok, Ill do without the high-maintenance wife, then, problem solved.👍
I would agree with you, but if you’re going to have a family and a house, you’re likely going to have guests or extended family for the holidays, and you don’t want your guests to suffice with just a few lawn chairs, right? Plus, your environment directly affects your mood. I highly doubt that a house filled with plants and lovely looking furniture and pictures will depress you more than the bachelor chic style.
recap of your debate - you clearly won
Good stuff. Thank you for all that you do.
The best way to make the world a better place is to bring and raise better people into this world. You can’t do that when you’re either removing yourself from the equation or adding to the depravity by having children out of wedlock, further establishing the idea that marriage isn’t necessarily for men and women.
I wonder if Trent and all the married commenters here will change their tone when they get divorced? Just ask Crowder.
Didn't Paul highly recommended being single instead marriage??? ..... marriage comes it's our set of challenges and sacrifices, and singleness come with it's set of challenges and sacrifices. Many men today are making measured or calculated, mature, decisions for both situations: cost benefits analysis that best suit themselves and or what they are willing to invite into their lives.
Well done! 👏🏻😊
Thank you. This is the content we needed during the Tate explosion a few years ago. But even now it is crucial to correct the path of the misguided.
On that note, what would be a recommendation to find a partner in life? We know apps don't tend to work as they live off the engagement, in a world where we have less friends than ever that method also seems to fall off and work has become somewhat hostile, where romance can get you in hot water with HR or even fired. So perhaps exploring safe methods of meeting and finding a partner would be worthwhile to solve the Redpill and Incel problem.
Once again thank you for your content.
Getting married is the best decision I ever made.
Awesome. And may it last your entire life. But that does not mean most other marriages will perform as well as yours.
Really appreciate this video.
Pearl: "Marriage is bad for men I swear, pls believe me, that's why I'm still alone and unmarried!"
Trent, honestly, I love you, man! You are doing great things, keep on spreading the truth, and defending what God has made for us!
I can’t remember if this came up in the debate, but I would like to ask Pearl “what should a man do if he wants to have children”?
She’d answer something like, “I don’t tell people what they should do, I only say what it is.” 🙄
@RachelDee That’s just it. Pearl describes what the problems are that men have to contend with in the "romantic" relationship arena (i.e., the rates of promiscuity, infanticide via abortion on demand, financial expectations, fidelity to feminism, fatness, picky dating habits, child custody lopsidedness in favour of women in divorce court, female domestic abuse or false abuse allegations against men, virginity shaming, divorce acceptance just in case mindset among women etc). She's not prescribing anything. She is simply pointing out the problems while tasking the Christian churches with providing real answers and solutions to all these trends that have increasingly made marriage a bad deal for the average man.
Pearl actually put this to Trent in their debate, asking what the church would do about many of these problems confronting mostly the average man. Instead Horn went on to tell men in general to get married because "studies" show it's good for them (Dude literally made an allowance for men to marry child murdering women via abortion, supposed formerly loose women and prostitutes by suggesting these things were not deal-breakers).
Indeed, only biblical Christianity has unique solutions for what marriage is and ought to be. But Horn wasn't advocating for any of it. He was more interested in proving Pearl wrong than listening to the problems that she raised and was mostly describing as creating a nightmarish minefield for the average man to navigate through in order to find that prospective virgin woman fit for marriage. Never mind the fact that marriage as controlled and sanctioned by the government is indeed a bad deal for men since it usurps the role of the body of Christ the church as the more legitimate authority in uniting a man and a woman as husband and wife in holy matrimony (the operative word here being "holy"). There's nothing "holy" about the state marrying anyone especially now that the state plays God and reserves the right to dissolve marriages while also illegitimately "marrying" two men or two women in unholy same-sex unions that are decidedly reproductive dead ends.
@@signposts6189 why are you here if you don't like what his video addressed?
@@signposts6189 all due respect, I'm not entertaining comments that repeat the same words without sound arguments and proof. I've learned from this video and the debate with Pearl that it needs to be called out more when discussing the truth about how things are.
@RachelDee With all due respect, I have given you sound arguments that you're sidestepping and aren't addressing due to some imagined moral high ground you think you have. This is a comments section where anyone can offer their take on the matter. Trent's video is out in the public square for engagement. Don't expect everyone to just agree like lemmings.
Thanks for the video, Trent. Could you also do a video on how marriage is good for women? My sister is in college and is currently on a feminist anti-marriage tear. I’d love to hear your thoughts about the opposite side of the equation.
Genuine question. Marriage is a sacrament. So isn't non-sacramental marriage not real marriage? If so, then doesn't advocating for secular people to get married mean advocating for adultery?
no, the Catholic church views marriages without illicit impediments between non-Catholics as equally binding.
Marriage pre-dated the Church. If the spouses are both free to marry and both intend to do what "marriage" truly is, it is a marriage.
@@benecliptus
At 7:31 he says 65% of divorced men remarry.
That’s called Adultery. That’s not a argument for a lifetime covenant, that’s a argument for no fault divorce and remarriage.
@@jdotoz
You can’t support divorce and remarriage and consider it “marriage”. Especially not as a Catholic Apologist.
He is absolutely wrong in going after Red Pill communities and instead should be distinguishing between a sacramental marriage and a non-sacramental marriage.
Because what the Red Pill community is crying out for is a Sacramental Marriage.
@@harryallenpearce89 1 - Saying something *does* happen is not the same as saying something *should* happen. In context, he's using that statistic *about* divorce to demonstrate that what Pearl is saying about men's mental state *after* divorce is not accurate.
2 - It has nothing to do with the question I answered, so who cares?
Loved this! ❤️💙
11:30 Trent has me ready to run through a brick wall. I’m fired up.
God bless you, Trent!
Men do not want to be alone.
Women will pressure the man to get legally married to serve their interests.
Wait, you mean to tell me that decades of anti-marraige propaganda LIED to me?! I am SHOCKED!
(sarcasm)
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Statistically people who would claim their marriage was happy.
When someone who is pro human happiness and pro life debates someone who is anti woman, its a one way street.
IMO you should of demonstrated how her mother and father should not be married by her own standards since pearls mom gave birth to another man's son..by that red pill standard pearls father is less of a man
In defense of Pearl, I don't think that her point is as simple as "marriage is bad" or "women are bad". Rather, she's saying that currently an alarmingly large number of young men either can't find a spouse or are abused by their spouse. The truth is that all of society - including people like Trent - are blind to the suffering of young men. In fact, many feminists openly mock the suffering of young men, celebrate it, and take steps concrete steps in the real world to increase it. Very few people try to stop them. Trent does not try to stop them. Moreover, it's not a competition. While it's true that young women may also suffer, that fact alone does not ameliorate the fatal consequences that will happen if young men do not receive immediate relief.
Pearl and people like her are trying to raise the alarm and people like Trent aren't listening.
Even if I grant you all this is true, it doesn't change the fact that Pearl and content creators like her, time and time again say Marriage is a bad deal for men, or their content follows the "Men good women bad" rhetoric.
As far as the ongoing abuse of men and women. This is a terrible thing for both. But people like Pearl and FnF are selling poison disguised as a solution.
Now is all RP content bad? No, but a lot of it is garbage as the intent isn't to actually help men get married, but almost always to maximize degenerency. There is a reason a vast majority of RP content creators or RP adjacent creators although seemingly have the answers, just like their audience, they are single and unmarried.
Want to learn to get better with women? "Sleep with over 50 women to gain experience".. if you only focus on the word "experience" that advice might sound valid, but when you really dissect what that entails and what you gain, it's nonsense.
@@LowTierLogic Okay, but at least RP content creators *are* giving advice and appear to take the problem seriously. The 'advice' given by most of the rest of the world is basically equivalent to "get gud", "stop whining", and - in the most charitable scenario "don't worry, you'll find someone eventually - or not - thems the breaks :shrug:". None of these answers come close to being good advice, much less tangible public policy solutions.
If *that's* all we have to say to young men, then why are we surprised that Pearl, Tate, and other extortionists are getting wildly popular?
We need direct action. Japan has several national "date day" holidays each year where the government organizes events to help young people meet. Churches have a moral duty to loudly and frequently criticize 'boss babe' attitudes. Divorce laws desperately need to be reformed. There's a lot that can be done and no one is interested in doing it.
@@Lightspectre1 So this is where I will start by saying, I completely agree with you. That a good portion of the western world at large is doing a poor job of teaching men and women good values for marriage and vetting.
But I will take the Biblical approach and say that it isn't a surprise to me because we are moving further and further away from God and Biblical values, so what's happening is you're seeing people scramble for solutions that mostly involve self preservation, and as a result , you see less and less men and women with "good morals" or in my opinion "Biblical Morals".
2 Timothy 3:2 -For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
As far your implication of the church not being active enoough in calling out bad behavior I disagree. I will say upfront that not all churches are the same nor are all churches legitimate. So if we only deal with the ones that are legitimate and are following God's Word, they are extremely active in addressing sin and how Christians and non Christians should respond to it. They are very active in promoting marriage and teaching how to be a good wife and husband. The problem is the world rejects Christ and the sinner naturally rejects Christ, so why would they even bother looking at anything the church does or says? After all God's word is the only true solution to everything, but it requires choices that directly conflict with our fallen state.
Case and point:
Women:"Men keep using me for sex"
Biblical Solution:“For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God” (1 Thessalonians 4:3-5).
Men: Women are so toxic today and unruly.
Biblical Solution:It is better to live in a corner of the housetop than in a house shared with a quarrelsome wife.(Proverbs 21:9)
These are just basic examples of how God's word protects men and women when choosing a potential spouse, and I could go ok and on but this is long enough lol.
@@Lightspectre1you are NOT getting your government-mandated girlfriend bro, give it up
@@maxalaintwo3578 lol, I'm married dude. I have children.
Thanks for proving my point though. If anyone ever tries to stand up and support young men, they are immediately personally attacked. People get *mad* that someone would even try to help these boys. It's the work of the devil.
There is low divorce rate because people aren't getting married anymore
Can't imagine living alone. That only seems like a good idea when you're young
Also Trent is missing a lot of context about why men don't pursue custody. They don't pursue custody not simply because they don't want to be fathers, they don't because they can't financially afford to. In many states, custody almost always goes to the mother, and men need to pay child support and possibly alimony. Why would men spend thousands of dollars to fight for custody, when most likely they will lose? It makes no sense. Trent is not representing the studies fairly, because he is not telling you WHY men don't usually fight for custody.
Also the reason they don't fight for custody is for the same reason most criminal cases are solved outside of court. Lawyers tell their client that they have little to no shot of winning the case and if they fight it they'll get a worse deal, so they tell them to take an out of court deal.
Did you watch the video? The men who do fight for custody are far more likely to get it.
@@mellieg.7543 yes, I watched it
@@DManCAWMaster Yes, absolutely. Their lawyer tells them they can't win custody, so they don't bother wasting money on it.
What do you think is the percentage of fathers who *don't want* to pursue custody? It's definitely not zero. I don't disagree that courts are skewed but there has to be a reason for that and it might be that the mother is the primary caregiver and more often the one that is most connected to the child bc of that bond of pregnancy, childbirth etc.
This is a great video.
The secular idea of a "marriage contract" is both stupid and a bad deal. A biblical marriage covenant on the other hand...
As with all things, law/government based marriages are bad. Religious ones are sacred.
Trent told me I could be Batman!
Marriage through a state contract IS a bad deal for men. If you cut the state out and marriage returns to be a holy union between man, woman, and God and the state can't insert itself, then you have far greater chances of success. Alimony and no-fault divorce are absolutely contradictory to scripture and as such make the marriage very lopsided and remove the authority of the husband and gives power to manipulate to the woman.
Oh no, no. Seems like you've had too much to think. Let's get you back home, and give you a nice tall glass of Kool Aid.
Jokes aside, you're absolutely right.
Men's right to dignity have been gutted at the state level, and I (personally) know many young men who are struggling with this reality.
The fact Trent Horn can't acknowledge this (presumably for subconscious fear of backlash from post-feminist types) just proves the greater point.
Bingo!
Well articulated.
Trent was being dishonest in this video.
7:31
65% of divorced me remarry
WHAT?
The CHURCH doesn’t recognize divorce and remarriage Trent. That’s called Adultery. That’s not “marriage”.
Because Trent did not distinguish between sacramental and non-sacramental marriages, he was willing to compromise Catholic beliefs for a point of men would be willing to marry again.
But you can’t marry again, Trent.
@@harryallenpearce89 It makes me lament Trent couldn't have debated a reasonable Catholic (or non-catholic christian at least) who's not a redpill grifter on the problems with state marriage, it would've been a lot more productive and fruitful instead of basically just shooting fish in a barrel by going up against Pearl, someone who is going to get demolished in a debate no matter what stance she's trying to take. But to be fair I think he was more concerned with destroying Pearl's argument (as he, understandably, does not like her very much) than destroying the stance she was actually trying to defend hence the inconsistency when taking on the bigger issue outside of her specific arguments
@@anti-elitistaction217
I only recently became Catholic, 2020. I don’t pretend to know the in’s and outs of the ecumenical councils over the last 2,000 years, but I am very well acquainted with the “red pill/mgtow/etc” movement.
It’s 100% about the death in America of traditional marriage, though traditional is better understood as Sacramental to Catholics.
For years a growing trend of men leaving the United States to find a partner in other nations, one of the most popular, the Philippines. A nation of mostly conservative Catholic women.
We just had a NFL player take a social media beating, and was even doxed by the Government for talking about traditional relationships and views.
You’re absolutely right, Trent missed the forest because of the tree he didn’t like. He wanted to win a debate, and instead gave a green light to divorce and remarriage, aka adultery.
The sad thing about Pearl's logic is that she'll never get married because of it
Pearl seems like - women against women ...
1. Even if it affects other issues, it's still a problem with marriage. I love how you say "sometimes lose custody cases" like its a fringe case when it happens overwhelmingly against men.
2. Women are worse now, which DOES affect marriage because it means that they will be less submissive (which is a fact) and therefore makes living together more difficult.
3. Women don't care as much about male promiscuity, so it doesnt affect women's mating patters as much as it does for men.
4. Men are the providers, so obviously they would have more debt. And women aren't expected to provide in the same way that men are anyways.
5. Men today don't need to have better grip strength because jobs don't require it as much. Also they make less because of economic reasons like inflation, not just because they are worse than the last generation. However, despite these ridiculous arguments, I would still agree that there are problems with current men today. But this has nothing to do with whether or not marriage is bad for men. Completely tangential and not relevant.
6. I would agree that the anecdote fallacy is a good critique against "redpillers." However, there are a lot of these stories that happen and the current rate of divorce is 50%, so its not like this isn't a valid critique despite the fact that the way they are going about it is fallacious.
7. The typical outcomes of marriage is that 50% divorce, and the other half stay together. The reason Pearl says its a bad deal is because the chances that you get divorced are extremely high and they have never been this bad before. While it is true that you can make better decisions and choose someone who is less likely to be divorced (ei. someone who is religious) even then the divorce rates are extremely high. In fact, the only way that you can really lower the chances of divorce is if you marry someone who is religious AND pious. It is the amount of piousness (is that a word?) that makes your chances of staying together better.
8. If your 35% figure is correct, then that's still a bad deal. The risk is still extremely high, and this still means that men are going to have a very difficult time getting into a relationship with someone who shares the same values, isn't promiscuous, and will actually stay with them. In other words, the number of marriageable women is too low for the number of men who want to get married to someone traditional.
I enjoy your videos about Christianity, apologetics, etc. but I don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to this discussion. The redpill community may have certain personalities who are hypocritical, but the arguments you make against Pearl, Fresh and Fit, etc. are seriously flawed. Especially in your opening statement, the amount of obviously flawed logic was disconcerting coming from someone who is pretty solid on his defense of the faith. See points 1-5 again if you don't believe me. They are all responses to what you said in the first 4 minutes.
Yeah, he really missed the mark on this one.
Makes me curious if someone is pulling his strings, or if he is genuinely this out of touch.
He played a major role in my conversion to Catholicism, but I feel like I can't trust his commentary anymore after how tone deaf he's been on this.
@@WilliamMcAdams I think he's pretty good on his theology so I would still trust his knowledge about that. But I also think that a lot of these "tradcon" people who work at the daily wire and people in that circle dont really understand the options young men have these days. It's really hard to find people who are actually traditional virgins and won't just put up a front to get what they want (money, sex, etc.).
@Camoomc I can understand your outlook.
For myself, gender relationships are fairly high on my "priorities" list.
Traditional family relationships are highly important to myself and my wife, as we both had very non-traditional upbringings and have come to highly value the traditional marriage/family.
I've come to view someones views on marriage as a *part of* their theology; seeings as the Bible (and Tradition) is very clear about what is expected from each gender.
So, to me, if someone has a debased view of gender relationships, their theology is off someone; because proper theology *should* lead to proper conclusions on this matter. At least, so far as I can see.
@@WilliamMcAdams I wouldn't be surprised if there was a connection between theology and gender relationships. The people I know who are traditional tend to be able to defend their theological beliefs extremely well. It's just when people start saying that nothing about marriage, women, or the dating marketplace has changed that we start to have some issues.
@Camoomc Certainly.
So far as I can see, the last 100 years has been a nightmare for almost every good institution.
The Church (pretty much any denomination tbh), marriage, child rearing, social relationships, etc.
I lament how many people are just "okay" with the state of things. They only want to complain when something bites them. It's like they're okay living in a snake den, but just don't want to get bit.
Trent, you need to debate Timothy Gordon again!
That is the truth...I'd be pretty surprised if it happened
don't worry it won't happen.
@@wanderingthedesert5599 idk pearl was low hanging frurt
@@aleccrull4114 Andrew Wilson would be better. He's actually more trained at debating.
I am 41 and single-never been married. I still want to get married-I guess. At the same time, I see the married men around me and think maybe marriage in this country isn't so great. Their wives are entitled. The husbands seem miserable.
This seems to hold true in both religious and secular marriages. I have noticed that Catholic families seem to be the most dysfunctional. I think its because divorce is not allowed-at least you are not supposed to remarry after a divorce. As a result, in my hometown (Im not going to name it here), it was a running joke about most Catholic marriages being loveless unions where both parties eventually (usually after having children was not possible) opened up the marriage.
Trent can you do a video on Andrew Wilson's comments on Lauren Chen's show that unbelievers shouldnt get married.
I agreed with him in the sense that maybe people who dont underatand what marriage is, should not get married. However, i also think marriage is good for people for the reasons you listed in the video.
Loved the video!
I work in an office that has a lot of young women who are kind, industrious, responsible. They increasingly do not meet men their age in real life. Instead, the redpill viral videos are increasingly their image of men. It doesn't do any good for me to point to my own marriage. More of them are saying that they don't even want to try. And it's hard to blame them when they hear men say "man's role is to protect and provide" when they are earning an excellent salary and live and work in a super safe area with lots of security.
It's true, I was misandristic for a while and thought all men were like the redpill when I first discovered the redpill. Ironically it was redpill not feminism that turned me off from men.
Most of what I hear are stats and probabilities Trent. Go over the laws themselves.
Probabilities and odds don't interest me. Potential legal import interests me. How could this law be used in court?
Does case law favor women, or not? If the case law tends not to benefit men in divorce, then why civil union at all? Why not just have a sacramental marriage without state acknowledgement?
If we're talking about legal civil union, then lets talk about laws and case law. If we're talking sacramental marriage, let's talk about the catechism, or other important publications of note.
Let's talk about what we should do if a spouse is unrepentantly awful to us? What do we do as Catholics? Not that I'm in this situation, but if a spouse cheats continually and isn't even sorry, what should we do?
I'm just disappointed that no one cited any court cases that I recall.
Agreed! His talking points were weak!
11:15 - WAIT THAT'S AN OPTION?
You're my thoughty2 for Catholicism and I'm glad... in my part of the world being Catholic is sometimes very diluted
Pearl does a great job sucking people into her talking points with the way she carries conversations. Destiny and Trent are the only two people I've seen resist that temptation follow her.