I noticed that new transit vehicles always have seats that are less comfortable than in older vehicles. This applies to trains, trams, buses, etc. I guess they're just trying to save money....
Because the older ones are more worn in. They’re shaped to fit your butt from everyone else sitting there😂 In addition the older materials were so much more prone to getting dirty, the dirt seeps into the seat and it’s invisible. Instead the newer seats make it easier to see and clean dirt.
i actually rode on brightline, and was in one of the group seating areas, one thing that was kinda unique is that the tables are thin to allow you to get in, but they have little inserts you pull out to extend your table!!
Hey great video. I rode on one of these sets from Fresno to Stockton for the first time. I'd have to give them a 7/10. One thing I wanted to point out the door you showed at the end of the first car is actually not for high level platform's. Remember these cars were custom built for Amtrak California. That door is actually where the wheelchair lift is. The cool thing is these are the first cars with aisles wide enough that a wheelchair can move about the entire train. So I believe there is only a lift at each end of the train. It is a definite downer that there is no cafe car on this train but I do give them major kudos for doing a much better complementary snack offering than they did with the Comet cars. They are really trying here and it shows. Instead of snack boxes and a little 6 oz water they have setup a snack buffet station in cars 2 and 4. Pick what you want they even had M&MS and a really good chocolate chip cookie as well as Coke Diet Coke and Sprite. If they could just install a coffee maker I think they would be set for the interim. I give them a 10/10 for this solution. The seat did have my back crying for mercy by Merced but after I did figure out the recline it did help a bit. You have to press that button and actually lean forward and scoot with a little bit of effort. Overall yes I loved the wide aisles and the USB ports as well as that generous leg room and a clean restroom bigger than some studio apartments. As well for me the highlight was the smooth ride.
The Venture stock was bought by the state, not Amtrak. The San Joaquin service is getting Venture stock as to free up the bilevel cars for the rest of the state services, allow the retirement of the Arrow 1s and allow the return of the leased Superliners. The bilevel cars are not going anywhere anytime soon. And what do you mean about Caltrans not buying from Siemens again?
@@maestromecanico597 I have heard from numerous sources that Caltrans has essentially “Blacklisted” Siemens due to the issues with the chargers and the major delays with the ventures.
@ Cannot say I’ve heard any chatter from within the industry to that affect…then again I’ve been retired for two years. Sumitomo shifting away from N-S and to Siemens was NOT clean. The specs for the stillborne next-gen bilevels were (sorta) adapted to the Ventures. Every time you change a contracted spec a “change order” has to be filed…and these run into six-figures. Caltrans got themselves into tight situation with trackwork paid for and complete and ready for new trains…which weren’t available. It’s too bad; this is what happens when you let a contract to a builder who’s never built a split level center sill vehicle before.
@@Official5008Creations My guess is Alstom is likely going to build the Surfliner and Superliner replacements. They have pretty extensive experience building double decker cars from both their own trains (TGV Duplex) and designs and engineers they picked up in the Bombardier merger (and we know Bombardier definitely knew how to build double decker cars).
@@mrvwbug4423Alstom built the later batch of Surfliner coaches, so it would be logical to have them make an updated version. The exterior design doesn't need to change much, but interior accessibility/ADA compliance could be improved a lot.
Honestly I dont think they’re bad either, but honestly with those lights if you’re on a trip at night, its gonna be hard to relax with those harsh LED lights. Not the biggest win, but they aren’t bad.
I rode on these at night and it was pretty nice actually! Because the lights are all in the middle and the seats have high backs, it's you don't see the lights directly, so for evenings, they're not bad at all. I wouldn't imagine them being super comfortable to sleep in, but the San Joaquins isn't exactly an overnight train so that's not really a problem
I feel like for a corridor service these are great, for trips like 2 and a half hours they’re perfectly fine. But tbh I don’t see them as a good replacement for SJ service. I unfortunately got stuck on them all the way from Bakersfield to Sacramento at night and the bright lights and hard seats made the trip pretty miserable. Especially cause I’ve done the trip in the comets with the horizon cafe and the California cars (I even had the comets on the southern surfliner leg on my way to Sacramento so I could really compare them). I love the modern feel and the design of these coaches, it’s definitely a refresh that’s needed and I liked the bathrooms and the doors and the vestibules, so I don’t completely hate them. These would be much better on the Capitol Corridor not the San Joaquin’s. My back was pretty sore after 5 and a half hours (way more sore than it should be after an Amtrak trip mind you, and yes I’ve done San Diego to slo and I wasn’t as sore as a 4 hour shorter journey in these things), and it’s a far cry from the old. Even most commuter rail in California (even the caltrain emus) have more comfortable seats, heck even the old bart cars had way better seats than these things. I also COULD NOT STAND the Announcements, after every damn stop there was a 2 minute safety message reminding you not to smoke and giving all the rules of the train with an annoying robotic voice. For an hour ride it’s fine, but after Lodi I wanted to destroy the speakers from hearing the announcements the whole damn journey.
Hopefully in the long run here’s what happens. Surfliner is electrified allowing for EMU’s to take over LA-SD. Current chargers and new dp ones + ventures take over northern surfliner and new Coachella Valley + coast daylight lines. Capitol Corridor is electrified fully and gets EMU’s. San Joaquin’s cuts back to Merced after HSR build and is dissolved into ACE for operations and equipment. Would likely get a new fleet of DMU’s. Would be quite expensive, but replacing rolling stock and electrification should be done together.
The only way surfliner would be electrified is if the state of california forces the surf line track owners to put electrification for envoirmental reasons, theres no way an american freight railroad would want to buy new infrastructure that theyre not gonna use anyway (last time theres an electric freight engine was from the 70s 80s) Still a good idea tho because california is super strict with envoirmental health
@@surfliner456 i know that it sadly will not happen. But the state rail plan does outline the need to electrify major passenger corridors such as Capitol Corridor, Merced to Stockton/Sacramento, and Metrolink’s San Bernadino Line.
Thanks for the overview. They remind me of the railjet in a number of aspects (you see where they are derived from). The unusable doors on one end are strange. I like the wide infoscreens on the ceiling. Do they have a wifi portal that gives further information on the ride?
I still have yet to board any Siemens Airo or Venture coaches, and give my thoughts on the interior. I still feel glum the Capitol Corridor, Pacific Surfliner and San Joaquins don't have new bi-levels at this time. The California Car coaches have been in service since 1996, and will need a replacement soon. Alstom has a lot of building experience even though they are still in the process of building the new coaches for Metra, VRE and NJT. However it is confusing because they have 3 North American rail manufacturing rail facilities. Newer bi-levels by Alstom or another rolling stock manufacturer would even help a lot with longer trains and extra frequency to accommodate more passengers on a regular basis, and supplement the Venture sets for the San Joaquins.
I took a six hour journey on an Amtrak Midwest venture car back in July. The only complaint I have was with the bright led lights being a little bit overwhelming at night. Other than that the cars are pretty good. If I had to give the venture cars a grade I’d go with B+
I have no issues with anything on the Venture coaches up to the seat padding. They seriously need more padding. I don't have as much of an issue for the 2-3 hours I spend on them, but going from Detroit to Chicago is over 5 hours. Hopefully for the Airo coaches, they recognize American behinds and don't copy the German seat design.
I’d imagine Alstom will build the new Bi-levels because I’m pretty sure Alstom built both versions of the California Car and CalTrans doesn’t seem to have a big problem with them yet.
I hope they modify those seats if we get them for the replacement of the Amfleet cars. Many of our daytime trains have long runs over several hours. If those seats do not recline like the old ones it will not be comfortable for longer trips.
Do we know if the Cafe cars will have any revenue seats? Wouldn’t it be a great place for a small business class that could then have a wider and thicker seat for all the naysayers?
The big issue is that they don't recline enough. I can manage sleeping on brightline seats but they're NOTHING compared to the ultra comfy seats on Amtrak's empire service (the only other service I've used recently)
I'm definitely glad you enjoyed the venture cars. I avoid them at all costs when I'm on the San Joaquin. California cars/double-deckers all day long. I ride from Bakersfield to Martinez
Most reviews say the Ventures ride great, well damped. I suspect the California cars use the same suspension as Superliners and the superliners have a very soft ride, not bumpy, but they do sway quite a bit from damping that is too soft, part of that may be the double sprung design of the superliners (the axles and the entire truck assembly are both on massive coil springs)
I haven't had a chance to ride the Amtrak version yet, but I have ridden on the Brightline venture coaches and I thought they were great. I prefer the views from the bilevel cars, but that's my only real "complaint"
Yes, they're a RJ coach just with a steel carbody instead of aluminum to meet FRA crash test standards. They also have a fully flat floor which is actually better than the new RJs which have steps inside the car which sucks for accessibility.
I don’t see Ventures being good at replacing anything but the comet cars, no matter their features. The problem that makes them automatically a bad replacement is being single-level.
These things better not be replacing the Amfleets any time soon, cause I gotta ride an Amfleet car, never ridden Amtrak before. Riding a Metroliner ain’t happening, they’re probably already gone.
They're set to replace the Amfleets on the NEC next year. And they'll be replacing the Horizon cars on Cascades either late this year or early next year, and eventually the Talgo 8s, but those are set to stick around for a few years. They should offer a smoother ride on the NEC, Amfleets ride like crap, they just have big, comfy seats. Also Amfleets are just non-powered Metroliner cars, and the Metroliner cab cars are just old Metroliner control cars with the pantos and motors removed.
If you're used to Superliner coach seats these will feel like a downgrade. If you're used to European train seats, these will probably feel familiar, I think they're the same seats that go on OBB Railjet cars. The main thing is, these single deck cars can carry more passengers than a Superliner coach car and for the services these are intended to run, they should do the job, Superliners are designed for overnight trains, not day trains. I've also heard the Ventures have exceptional ride quality, which would be a definite upgrade over the crap ride quality of Amfleets, though Superliners ride pretty well.
My only issue is the venture cafe cars ironically. They have regular coach seating in them and stand up tables at the other end. What a horrible design! When I took the Acela and the heartland flyer, the cafe cars were both full! (Heartland flyer doesn’t usually run with a cafe but it did for its 25th anniversary) Not to mention Amtrak crew love to hang out in the cafe cars. Hopefully they put in proper cafe seating eventually but for now the venture cafes suck in my opinion. As for the coach cars, I like em a lot. Very spacious. Also a reason the seats are so stiff is likely because they haven’t had 20 years of people sitting on them and breaking them in yet. So that’ll change over time.
5:07 YES, they are like sitting on a very hard surface. It must be nice to be young and not get sore in both your back and your butt sitting on such an uncomfortable seat. But DO NOT assume that they are not uncomfortable for other people, and that those people couldn't be right about their experience. In fact, these seats are cheap CRAP, and sitting on them was indeed painful for me, as my trip between CHI and STL meant that I had to sit on them for FIVE hours. These are commuter rail seats ONLY, and NOT appropriate for intercity travel.
I noticed that new transit vehicles always have seats that are less comfortable than in older vehicles. This applies to trains, trams, buses, etc. I guess they're just trying to save money....
Because the older ones are more worn in. They’re shaped to fit your butt from everyone else sitting there😂 In addition the older materials were so much more prone to getting dirty, the dirt seeps into the seat and it’s invisible. Instead the newer seats make it easier to see and clean dirt.
A big part of that is upping seating density. Those single level Venture cars carry more passengers than a bi-level Superliner coach car.
@@surfliner456 Really? I never thought of it this way. Thank you so much for taking the time to share this! ☀😎 👍
@@mrvwbug4423 Good to know!
Nah. Just gotta break em in lmao
i actually rode on brightline, and was in one of the group seating areas, one thing that was kinda unique is that the tables are thin to allow you to get in, but they have little inserts you pull out to extend your table!!
Hey great video. I rode on one of these sets from Fresno to Stockton for the first time. I'd have to give them a 7/10. One thing I wanted to point out the door you showed at the end of the first car is actually not for high level platform's. Remember these cars were custom built for Amtrak California. That door is actually where the wheelchair lift is. The cool thing is these are the first cars with aisles wide enough that a wheelchair can move about the entire train. So I believe there is only a lift at each end of the train.
It is a definite downer that there is no cafe car on this train but I do give them major kudos for doing a much better complementary snack offering than they did with the Comet cars. They are really trying here and it shows. Instead of snack boxes and a little 6 oz water they have setup a snack buffet station in cars 2 and 4. Pick what you want they even had M&MS and a really good chocolate chip cookie as well as Coke Diet Coke and Sprite. If they could just install a coffee maker I think they would be set for the interim. I give them a 10/10 for this solution.
The seat did have my back crying for mercy by Merced but after I did figure out the recline it did help a bit. You have to press that button and actually lean forward and scoot with a little bit of effort.
Overall yes I loved the wide aisles and the USB ports as well as that generous leg room and a clean restroom bigger than some studio apartments. As well for me the highlight was the smooth ride.
The Venture stock was bought by the state, not Amtrak. The San Joaquin service is getting Venture stock as to free up the bilevel cars for the rest of the state services, allow the retirement of the Arrow 1s and allow the return of the leased Superliners. The bilevel cars are not going anywhere anytime soon. And what do you mean about Caltrans not buying from Siemens again?
@@maestromecanico597 I have heard from numerous sources that Caltrans has essentially “Blacklisted” Siemens due to the issues with the chargers and the major delays with the ventures.
@ Cannot say I’ve heard any chatter from within the industry to that affect…then again I’ve been retired for two years. Sumitomo shifting away from N-S and to Siemens was NOT clean. The specs for the stillborne next-gen bilevels were (sorta) adapted to the Ventures. Every time you change a contracted spec a “change order” has to be filed…and these run into six-figures. Caltrans got themselves into tight situation with trackwork paid for and complete and ready for new trains…which weren’t available. It’s too bad; this is what happens when you let a contract to a builder who’s never built a split level center sill vehicle before.
@@Official5008Creations My guess is Alstom is likely going to build the Surfliner and Superliner replacements. They have pretty extensive experience building double decker cars from both their own trains (TGV Duplex) and designs and engineers they picked up in the Bombardier merger (and we know Bombardier definitely knew how to build double decker cars).
@@mrvwbug4423Alstom built the later batch of Surfliner coaches, so it would be logical to have them make an updated version. The exterior design doesn't need to change much, but interior accessibility/ADA compliance could be improved a lot.
4:04 "sHUt uP"
Honestly I dont think they’re bad either, but honestly with those lights if you’re on a trip at night, its gonna be hard to relax with those harsh LED lights. Not the biggest win, but they aren’t bad.
We've got the same issue on pretty much every european high speed train
I rode on these at night and it was pretty nice actually! Because the lights are all in the middle and the seats have high backs, it's you don't see the lights directly, so for evenings, they're not bad at all. I wouldn't imagine them being super comfortable to sleep in, but the San Joaquins isn't exactly an overnight train so that's not really a problem
But is it better or worse than the generally very dark interiors on the superliner coach cars.
@ Its not very dark, its great for sleeping which is what the superliners are made for: you can see during the day, there is enough light at night.
I feel like for a corridor service these are great, for trips like 2 and a half hours they’re perfectly fine. But tbh I don’t see them as a good replacement for SJ service. I unfortunately got stuck on them all the way from Bakersfield to Sacramento at night and the bright lights and hard seats made the trip pretty miserable. Especially cause I’ve done the trip in the comets with the horizon cafe and the California cars (I even had the comets on the southern surfliner leg on my way to Sacramento so I could really compare them). I love the modern feel and the design of these coaches, it’s definitely a refresh that’s needed and I liked the bathrooms and the doors and the vestibules, so I don’t completely hate them. These would be much better on the Capitol Corridor not the San Joaquin’s. My back was pretty sore after 5 and a half hours (way more sore than it should be after an Amtrak trip mind you, and yes I’ve done San Diego to slo and I wasn’t as sore as a 4 hour shorter journey in these things), and it’s a far cry from the old. Even most commuter rail in California (even the caltrain emus) have more comfortable seats, heck even the old bart cars had way better seats than these things. I also COULD NOT STAND the Announcements, after every damn stop there was a 2 minute safety message reminding you not to smoke and giving all the rules of the train with an annoying robotic voice. For an hour ride it’s fine, but after Lodi I wanted to destroy the speakers from hearing the announcements the whole damn journey.
Hopefully those announcements will be shortened or played less frequently if enough of us complain!
I think platforms along the line just need to be updated more than anything for level bording to be normalized
Hopefully in the long run here’s what happens. Surfliner is electrified allowing for EMU’s to take over LA-SD. Current chargers and new dp ones + ventures take over northern surfliner and new Coachella Valley + coast daylight lines. Capitol Corridor is electrified fully and gets EMU’s. San Joaquin’s cuts back to Merced after HSR build and is dissolved into ACE for operations and equipment. Would likely get a new fleet of DMU’s. Would be quite expensive, but replacing rolling stock and electrification should be done together.
The only way surfliner would be electrified is if the state of california forces the surf line track owners to put electrification for envoirmental reasons, theres no way an american freight railroad would want to buy new infrastructure that theyre not gonna use anyway (last time theres an electric freight engine was from the 70s 80s)
Still a good idea tho because california is super strict with envoirmental health
@ the Surfliner tracks from LA to Anaheim get electrified as part of HSR. And from Anaheim to SD the tracks are owned by the counties
Not happening.
@@surfliner456 i know that it sadly will not happen. But the state rail plan does outline the need to electrify major passenger corridors such as Capitol Corridor, Merced to Stockton/Sacramento, and Metrolink’s San Bernadino Line.
The LED mirror is one of the best to see
Thanks for the overview. They remind me of the railjet in a number of aspects (you see where they are derived from). The unusable doors on one end are strange. I like the wide infoscreens on the ceiling. Do they have a wifi portal that gives further information on the ride?
Amtrak won't let passengers use those doors for some reason.
Very nice review. Keep up the good work.
I still have yet to board any Siemens Airo or Venture coaches, and give my thoughts on the interior. I still feel glum the Capitol Corridor, Pacific Surfliner and San Joaquins don't have new bi-levels at this time. The California Car coaches have been in service since 1996, and will need a replacement soon. Alstom has a lot of building experience even though they are still in the process of building the new coaches for Metra, VRE and NJT. However it is confusing because they have 3 North American rail manufacturing rail facilities. Newer bi-levels by Alstom or another rolling stock manufacturer would even help a lot with longer trains and extra frequency to accommodate more passengers on a regular basis, and supplement the Venture sets for the San Joaquins.
5:03 I wish those screens showed you how fast the train is going
I took a six hour journey on an Amtrak Midwest venture car back in July. The only complaint I have was with the bright led lights being a little bit overwhelming at night. Other than that the cars are pretty good. If I had to give the venture cars a grade I’d go with B+
my biggest gripe is that the cars are not bike friendly until the cab cars are ready
I have no issues with anything on the Venture coaches up to the seat padding. They seriously need more padding. I don't have as much of an issue for the 2-3 hours I spend on them, but going from Detroit to Chicago is over 5 hours. Hopefully for the Airo coaches, they recognize American behinds and don't copy the German seat design.
I’d imagine Alstom will build the new Bi-levels because I’m pretty sure Alstom built both versions of the California Car and CalTrans doesn’t seem to have a big problem with them yet.
I hope they modify those seats if we get them for the replacement of the Amfleet cars. Many of our daytime trains have long runs over several hours. If those seats do not recline like the old ones it will not be comfortable for longer trips.
Thanks for the overview man. These venture cars kinda similar to Vande Bharat train sets in India 🇮🇳. But better
Do we know if the Cafe cars will have any revenue seats? Wouldn’t it be a great place for a small business class that could then have a wider and thicker seat for all the naysayers?
The big issue is that they don't recline enough. I can manage sleeping on brightline seats but they're NOTHING compared to the ultra comfy seats on Amtrak's empire service (the only other service I've used recently)
I hope more people complain about this aspect so that it gets changed eventually lol
I wish Amtrak was more like Metra and by that I mean I wish Amtrak would keep the CDTX Amtrak California and Pacific Surfliner BI Level cars forever.
I'm definitely glad you enjoyed the venture cars. I avoid them at all costs when I'm on the San Joaquin. California cars/double-deckers all day long. I ride from Bakersfield to Martinez
The new via rail cars have the same problem with the seats. Not as good as the older Budd HEP-2 coaches but they are comfortable.
do you feel like the actual ride(suspension) was softer, harder, the same? the open gangway is very nice.
Most reviews say the Ventures ride great, well damped. I suspect the California cars use the same suspension as Superliners and the superliners have a very soft ride, not bumpy, but they do sway quite a bit from damping that is too soft, part of that may be the double sprung design of the superliners (the axles and the entire truck assembly are both on massive coil springs)
From my rides I remember the Ventures being exceptionally smooth, definitely one of the smoothest rides I’ve had on a train
San joaquins is supposed to be fully venture coaches, they just don't have all of the sets ready yet
I haven't had a chance to ride the Amtrak version yet, but I have ridden on the Brightline venture coaches and I thought they were great. I prefer the views from the bilevel cars, but that's my only real "complaint"
The Venture Coaches look like the Railjet Coaches operated by the Austrian Federal Railways ÖBB
They are an Americanized version of those original RailJet coaches
Yes, they're a RJ coach just with a steel carbody instead of aluminum to meet FRA crash test standards. They also have a fully flat floor which is actually better than the new RJs which have steps inside the car which sucks for accessibility.
Cool video buy Cefa car tables bruh & cool of video of the freight zooming pass you.
I don’t see Ventures being good at replacing anything but the comet cars, no matter their features. The problem that makes them automatically a bad replacement is being single-level.
These things better not be replacing the Amfleets any time soon, cause I gotta ride an Amfleet car, never ridden Amtrak before. Riding a Metroliner ain’t happening, they’re probably already gone.
They're set to replace the Amfleets on the NEC next year. And they'll be replacing the Horizon cars on Cascades either late this year or early next year, and eventually the Talgo 8s, but those are set to stick around for a few years. They should offer a smoother ride on the NEC, Amfleets ride like crap, they just have big, comfy seats. Also Amfleets are just non-powered Metroliner cars, and the Metroliner cab cars are just old Metroliner control cars with the pantos and motors removed.
should have been more like via rails seats on the ventures.
If you're used to Superliner coach seats these will feel like a downgrade. If you're used to European train seats, these will probably feel familiar, I think they're the same seats that go on OBB Railjet cars. The main thing is, these single deck cars can carry more passengers than a Superliner coach car and for the services these are intended to run, they should do the job, Superliners are designed for overnight trains, not day trains. I've also heard the Ventures have exceptional ride quality, which would be a definite upgrade over the crap ride quality of Amfleets, though Superliners ride pretty well.
My only issue is the venture cafe cars ironically. They have regular coach seating in them and stand up tables at the other end. What a horrible design! When I took the Acela and the heartland flyer, the cafe cars were both full! (Heartland flyer doesn’t usually run with a cafe but it did for its 25th anniversary) Not to mention Amtrak crew love to hang out in the cafe cars. Hopefully they put in proper cafe seating eventually but for now the venture cafes suck in my opinion. As for the coach cars, I like em a lot. Very spacious. Also a reason the seats are so stiff is likely because they haven’t had 20 years of people sitting on them and breaking them in yet. So that’ll change over time.
Hiw much chex mix does one man need
It’s a bad idea to replace the double decker cars with these. The capacity is going to be limited.
5:07 YES, they are like sitting on a very hard surface. It must be nice to be young and not get sore in both your back and your butt sitting on such an uncomfortable seat. But DO NOT assume that they are not uncomfortable for other people, and that those people couldn't be right about their experience. In fact, these seats are cheap CRAP, and sitting on them was indeed painful for me, as my trip between CHI and STL meant that I had to sit on them for FIVE hours. These are commuter rail seats ONLY, and NOT appropriate for intercity travel.
Amazing video!
Nice!
Hello!
The J
I call them trash seats
What are the Siemens Venture Cars, all I know is the R211Ts that have the same exact features..