Here's one quick note about this test that makes it unfair, in my opinion - or at least not like what I'd do in the real world... The Morgan AC20 amp model in the Axe-FX is by far my favorite amp model I've ever heard on any platform. It's awesome, and it crushes the Vox AC30 models (in both Helix and Axe). It's the amp model I use in the Glorious Day song patch for Axe - it's the amp model I use probably 90% of the time when I play Axe-FX. If I dialed in my 'favorite' amp sound in Axe and compared it to my 'favorite' amp sound in Helix (the Matchless Jumped model), this comparison would be very different. So while this particular comparison evens the playing field between the two modelers and shows that they do sound very similar when you normalize as many of the factors that you can, it doesn't show how I would use each of them compared to each other in a real-world scenario. If Line 6 added the AC20 Deluxe model to the Helix, I would be very, very happy.
If you like that more midrange tone the Fractal was getting, add the Cali Graph EQ between the amp and the IR and fine tune the EQ. Done. That's where the magic lives in fine tuning the EQ of any amp patch.
When you listen through good headphones the Axe does sound more focused and somewhat more realistic. When you re-listen to the video through open air speakers the difference becomes much less noticeable. It really comes down to what you personally can live with. Not even these two who live with these devices daily could pick a Helix from an Axe3 from a Kemper, or from a pedalboard through the Iridium in the middle of a worship set live in the mix unless they simply guess right. Now the quad cortex is coming very soon, the Boss GT1000 will probably get an update that will improve the response of that unit, and the Headrush will probably up its game at some point, all leaving you with so many options your head will explode trying to make sure you own the best most authentic sounding non-real digital all in one unit.
I listened to this with my eyes closed and opened them just to see which one was which after each switch. I was always wrong when I opened my eyes to which unit was showing. 😂
Think the Helix could use a little more drive, and the mids sound like they are eq'd differently. But very close, nobody is going to be able to tell which live
I have the AXE FX III and Helix LT (for now) and the AXE wins for so many reasons. Primarily the FX though. No contest there. It's really a true studio in a box.
Helix users - "Helix sounds so much better" - AxeFX users " "AxeFX sounds so much better" Honestly, they sound so similar that nobody will know. Maybe you and the sound guy.
@@mehegama I mean, don't get me wrong. I KNOW people beg for these comparison videos, and I thank WT for taking the time to do it. But users are so brand loyal in this market.
Jonathan Martin I have both and through the same ir, you need to be a sound engineer to tell the difference. As if two,say, dual recs will ever sound the same exactly. Most of it is cork sniffing
Ok... I think we can all agree, regardless which platform you use, the rig that inspires you to play is the BEST! The rig with the most play time wins.
Wow, these are actually a lot different than I expected them to be...not a bad sound from either unit, but I feel like I'll definitely stick with my Helix!
I’ve A/B’ed both and the difference is immediately noticeable in person when you put a reverb block in each unit. The Axe-Fx has really high quality reverbs. In a full band mix, not too noticeable though. Strictly for amp tones, using the same IR, I couldn’t notice a difference for what I do. A slight difference might be noticed on distorted sustained chords in particular, Helix seems to have a more “flat” sound in the sustain that perhaps helps it be forward in the mix, while the Axe-Fx seems to have more complexity/movement in the chord sustain. I use and like both!
I like Axe FX sound better, I would love playing through it better (I think) but I like the all-in-one of the Helix better than I like the sound of the Axe FX
The difference between good and great is in the detail... You have to be paying attention, to notice that detail. And in the end, you have to pay for that detail. The diminishing return argument falls apart when you can get an app+Bluetooth control pedal for less than $200. Bias Amp on iOS can amp match a sound to pretty close. Is the Helix/Kemper/AFX worth the price difference? To me... Yes they are. The detail, the feel, the flexibility - at each step up, in that order (Line6, Kemper, Fractal), they are definitely worth the difference.... To me....
Thanks for doing this. I’m considering selling my rack mounted Mesa gear and cabinets for something I can actually carry by myself. This was extremely helpful. Thx again!!
I think everyone wins b/c both sound great. Any differences that are noted (in the video or any of the comments) could be "fixed" with an EQ to taste (if you prefer the Axe then you may want to dial out the mids or for Helix may need to dial them up).
Had AxeFxIII and helix, now I have Kemper and Overloud Th-U. To me the best of all is the Kemper but it’s old and have a lot of boring drawbacks (no usb audio, no dual amp, no color screen,..) and Th-U is better than AxeFxIII (yes!... made me sell the AxeFxIII....) The best for your money is THU (software) or HX Stomp (pedal) The best quality is on Kemper.
I really enjoy your reviews. I currently have an FM3. I am a little disappointed by the lack of CPU power. I feel like maybe I should have bought a Helix.......
Great video! Thank you so much for making this. You have convinced me without a doubt to buy a Fractal FM3 as soon as my name reaches the top of the wait list. It has many of the same advantages as Axe FX III but without the disadvantages of costing more than Helix or having to deal with offstage hardware. The FM3 + FC6 combo gives you 9 programmable foot switches for $1,500. If you don’t already own an expression pedal, you can buy from Fractal for a little over $100 or buy another brand, such as Moog, and keep the whole rig under $1,600. Say goodbye to the law of diminishing returns!
Listening to this through my studio (Event BAS 20/20) monitors, I hear a huge difference. I own both platforms myself and what I have found is that the base tones in the helix seem darker than the axe fx 3. The axe fx 3 has a high end thing that it just does with 90 percent of the IR'S. As demonstrated in this video, there is definently a top end sparkle in the axe fx 3. I prefer the tone from the helix on this particular test. The helix gets you there tone wise much faster than the axe fx 3. I find myself often with the axe fx 3 getting option paralisys. I have learned to grab an amp and then test 2 cab ir's ( one bright and one dark) blend them and then go to the tone knobs on the amp block and adjust. That seems to be the faster way to do it on the axe fx. On the helix, again, if you have a few good ir's (not a fan of the helix's stock cabs) you can dial in a great tone very fast. Gentlemen. I use your presets on a weekly basis on both platforms and love what you do. They're easily worth double what you charge us for. And we all sincerely thank you. God bless ya! Oh, and if you like some good Christian rock, check out faithhead.com! Keep on keeping on, and thank you for doing what you do for our awesome Lord and Savior! Edit: all of our newest album was recorded using axe fx3 and helix for all guitars and bass. They're both great live and studio tools.
@@zwip778 Dont get me wrong, I love the "glassiness" you speak on, I was just giving my opinion solely on the 2 patches demonstrated. I like my praise and worship patch a little on the darker side just because on so many p&w songs the electric guitar is a support instrument. If I need it to stand out, I make it stand out by going to bridge position or kick on a treble boost....Merry Christmas everyone, God bless!
I agree with most of your comments, I've owned the Helix and no matter what I tried, I just could not get that full sound, especially on crunch an high gain. I purchased presets from Rhett Schull, an others an although nice presets, it didn't satisfy. The iems while on Helix were also horrible, including bands wedges. I went back to my board an amp, but then took a plunge on fractal fm9. WORLDS APART! 2 live shows and the difference is amazing. I'm learning even more tips from Cooper and can't wait to play the fm9 this weekend again. Imo the fm9 is top dog. Only complaint is screen size an as u mentioned user friendliness on the fly. Great video.
Spot on. I own a Helix Floor and I just bought the AxeFX III. Yes the fractal is more powerful, yes the amp models do sound a bit fuller as do the effects. Sadly Cliff and the guys at Fractal are engineers and they think like engineers sitting at a desk, not like performers on a stage. The AxeFX is a royal PITA to navigate through and set up. I took their word for it when they said they had made it much easier to use. No, they most certainly have not. Their interface architecture is still basically the same and is convoluted with entirely too many button pushes, knob turns, etc. to get to parameters that need to be edited. Nothing about it is intuitive (unless of course you are one of the designers...eye roll). Fractal engineers seem to adore the "Lets bury it in a submenu" way of doing things, performers do not. They want rapid access to parameters if they need to be tweaked (as per the example given in this video). Just hook up the FC-12 for the first time and try and find the tuner function. Seriously, what? It's just stupid. They both have their pros and cons but I'm pretty sure the Helix Floor has outsold all of the various models of Fractal units combined. There is a reason for that. Wise up, Cliff!
I've used both. I experienced a small, but noticeable amount of latency in the Helix that I couldn't get used to. It felt like playing through an interface into a computer. I returned the Helix and bought an Iridium that I'm much happier with.
I just found that axefx is way easier to get a good sound. In the end if you really know how to EQ the helix you can make it sound good but I found it takes you lots of time to get sounds out of the helix that sound as good as stock Axefx sounds
They sound exactly the same, I can hardly tell any difference. The best option for me is going to be the hx stomp xl with the york audio IRs I have. This video proves stock cabs have a bigger effect on tone than the amp models them selves.
Real & authentic worship, with... a synthetic amp, synthetic speaker, cab, impulse response, synthetic delay, synthetic reverb and synthetic distortion pedal. :D Just kidding - don' flame me. I play the Axe-Fx III for worship on both guitar and bass, and LOVE IT!! I personally cannot understand why anyone would want to use a Kemper or Helix when the III is available. But... to each their own. Keep strummin' and making music all! Love what you guys do, and thanks for doing it.
The problem is that the Axe Fx 3 (or Fm3) aren't "available". Theres a waitlist and even then they're twice the price. For someone who plays four songs on a Sunday as a volunteer, spending $3k+ on gear that you had to wait 3-9 months to get is unrealistic for most of us.
Thank you for your comparison. My current application is mostly project studio. I believe I may sell my whole rig amps/cabs as I live in 2 apt home and want to be nice to neighbor. Also new lifting (weight) restrictions. I agree completely your comments on the difference in tone and the fractal may have something on the helix. A friend lent me a helix. I did not like it at all. Guess I will go fractal. I have also heard the fractal has a more realistic "feel" that is more musical. Take Care
Great video, totally agree whatever amp modeler inspires someone to play is the right choice. One difference I wanted to point out is that for the thousand more which is a lot of money, you do get basically an pro level 8 i/o interface that is easily worth a thousand by itself and an fx unit that is at eventide level again that’s easily a thousand, and the big one is it can run 2 paths at once so 2 band members can run at the same time
Axe FX is for those that REALLY want to tweak, or want to do complex signal paths, or like to created pedals and FX (because you can change almost everything on the stomps and fx, combine them in more complex ways etc. Helix for simple, good modelling, not doing rea complex stuff.
My question is not so much the inline stuff of recording... which I know will be good with either. But what about the playing it live.... do either push more air like a real tube amp? Do either feel more like a real amp at volume?
i love them both! i like the reverbs on the helix just a bit better. but there’s very little difference. call me crazy but i feel that the axe fx is just a little darker
A touch more gain and compression, maybe a little EQ tweaking and I think this "comparison" comes out significantly more even. That said, the clarity you hear from the Helix here is actually quite nice in a couple of spots.
When you make patches for each song of the set. Do you just re-arrange each Sunday so your patches are right next to each other? A morgan in the Helix would be sweet!
The Axe sounds more "open" (but not as open as a tube amp) than the helix but in a mix with other instruments compression, effects, signal processing, both sound good to release a record no one can tell if it's one or the other ^^
Had the helix I ended up selling it. It just did t fill the room, that certain something especially in drive modes. With the fractal fm 9 the stock amps are incredible. I use live exclusively now, it feel more like amp in room. My only gripe is on the fly adjustments, as u mentioned helix was easier.
The FX3 running the Ares firmware sounds nothing like what a current one running the Cygnus firmware sounds like. In addition, both modelers in this comparison are so highly EQ'd they've lost the lows and highs that would differentiate them normally. Having had two Helix Floors and a Stomp, and FM3/FM9 and FX3 Fractals, all running their current firmware, I'm very familiar with their sounds and what they can do and sound like, and this doesn't represent either system well.
Great Video! I was just discussing this with my Sweetwater Rep. I can hear differences but I don't think one is better than the other and the differences are so subtle in tone that it's negligible. I would think the AxeFX III can probably do a lot more due to the power in the DSP processor but from this video I think it comes down to how much to you need? So now I'm more interested in the Tone Junkie IR's.
If you're into clean tones for worship the helix will be great but if you play rock or metal the helix sounds terrible. Totally nasal tone. That's where the fractal shines with it's higher power processing and modeling engine.
Yeah but the Fractal is a convoluted mess to navigate through. The Helix is so much better in the way it's laid out and how it integrates with the musician. You won't be doing any patch tweaking while playing with the AxeFX. With the Helix it's easy.
I’m team Helix all the way. I’m pretty sure I’m not smart enough for the Fractal. Random question though: What guitar is this? It’s not your usual Shelton-that thing has three pickups, so this can’t just be a pick guard swap. Major mods? The Ristrettos were all the pickups you’d ever need?
Granted I'm just listening through desktop computer speakers, but the Axe seems to have a more pronounced high-mid pop to it. They both sound great, and neither seems 'better', but much easier to hear the difference than I might have expected.
Awesome video as always! Could you guys make a video on how you make videos lol, how to mix guitar, voice and video on a user friendly way for worship musicians wanting to up their game on the videos?? I have a axe fx III, a MacBook Pro with logic and Final Cut Pro but final cut has been really confusing for me at least. Or if you could direct me to any instructional you know of, thank you guys and keep up the great work!
How did you know I stay up to 2a.m. playing? I just got the helix and love it. Bought one of your patches and used it in church this Sunday. So thanks!
Thank you for your videos. I know they have been great blessing to ones that are running the same equipment you have. But for ones that are on a budget or running older gear, is there a way for you to do videos on those kinds of boards as well? For example, I am running an older Line 6 M13 board, and I would really appreciate some videos on custom patches and uses for that.
The helix rack has the same IO that the axe fx has i think. It even has the clean di out. But the ace fx and the helix have a clean di channel that always gets recorded when using usb
Helix is fine for clean tones, I honestly cost tell the difference. But where it really stumbles is with the distortion. Don't typically use that in worship. But if you're into metal or rock the Axe is the only option. Line 6 gets nasally with distortion. So to me the Axe is more than worth the price difference as it gives you that flexibility. I can't stand the sound of the helix with distortion. Like nails on a chalkboard.
Axe sounds middy and the Helix sounds mid-scooped, and the Helix sounds like it has less gain applied in the patch. Both sit well in the mix though, just a preference thing really. Honestly with a little more EQ work I think you could have gotten the Helix to sound identical. I do wish the Helix had the AC20 and the Fender Princeton, those sound AMAZING in the AxeFX
great tones! one question, tho: i recently bought the match modified IR pack by tonejunkie but i dont remember them having a dc-30 cab pack in the list (it says "matchless EDS cabinet").. could someone link me this IR pack? or is it the same as the match modified?
Axe fx for sure. But that’s not Saying helix or stomp cant get you through a fly gig. If all I could carry is my gig Bag then it’s stomp. But if I’m hanging in my studio space at home I’ll dig into axfx/kemper. But to be honest. It nice sometimes to just turn on stomp and not need to tweak as much on the parameters.
Very helpful video. I did think the Fractal sounded a bit better, but I need simple and portable, so I’ll stay with Helix. BTW, on Helix I use the output at the end of the chain to give a dB boost, as opposed to adding a block. I think you can even assign it to a foot switch if you want. Any downside to that method?
I see your point with diminishing returns, but it was unfortunate that you used modeling as an example given that the hx stomp is in the $500 range and gives you the same modelling as the helix haha. Bradford, what made you switch over from the hx stomp to the iridium on your board? Thanks for these videos, guys!
They both sound great! There's like a more prominent lower mid's thing going on in the AXE FX III. It's hard to not be biased being I love fractal. I'm loving the AX8 and it meets all my needs.
Hello from Spain. I'm amateur guitarist and ever analog. I want to buy a digital pedalboard and i´d like your opinion because you have tried both models; FM3 or HELIX FLOOR?. With your experience, better sounds, effects, easiest to use or program presets...etc. THANKS
I don't own either unit but am in the market for both, which is why I'm listening to these comparisons. There is not nearly enough of a sound difference here to justify the roughly $1,000 price difference. I'm going with the Helix. They're both excellent.
To my ears, AXE has more...pardon the expression "balls" than the Helix. The sound is thicker and meatier, like a perfectly cooked steak. I own a Helix and debating an AXE. Maybe an AX8, or a used AXE rack.
Got to be real here, even if you use a super cheap $80 ZOOM G1 FOUR, with those subtle tones buried under those piercing delays and reverb, it still wouldn't make any difference.The DELAYS and REVERB is just too overwhelming.
The axe fx has a funky piercing cut in the high mids that is uncomfortable to my ears in this comparison. The verb in the hellx is wider sounding as well. The axe sounds a bit “messier” for lack of a better term which can work in its favor for realism.
Here's one quick note about this test that makes it unfair, in my opinion - or at least not like what I'd do in the real world...
The Morgan AC20 amp model in the Axe-FX is by far my favorite amp model I've ever heard on any platform. It's awesome, and it crushes the Vox AC30 models (in both Helix and Axe). It's the amp model I use in the Glorious Day song patch for Axe - it's the amp model I use probably 90% of the time when I play Axe-FX.
If I dialed in my 'favorite' amp sound in Axe and compared it to my 'favorite' amp sound in Helix (the Matchless Jumped model), this comparison would be very different. So while this particular comparison evens the playing field between the two modelers and shows that they do sound very similar when you normalize as many of the factors that you can, it doesn't show how I would use each of them compared to each other in a real-world scenario.
If Line 6 added the AC20 Deluxe model to the Helix, I would be very, very happy.
What happened to the kemper profiler stage? 😎 Please A/b it with helix 👏
L6 will get right on that AC20. If they start today a year from now it will be out
+1 for the AC20 Deluxe model in the Helix!
The modeling world has matured and is totally adequate on both. Now it comes down to the user experience. For me personally, Helix wins usability.
If you like that more midrange tone the Fractal was getting, add the Cali Graph EQ between the amp and the IR and fine tune the EQ. Done. That's where the magic lives in fine tuning the EQ of any amp patch.
When you listen through good headphones the Axe does sound more focused and somewhat more realistic. When you re-listen to the video through open air speakers the difference becomes much less noticeable.
It really comes down to what you personally can live with. Not even these two who live with these devices daily could pick a Helix from an Axe3 from a Kemper, or from a pedalboard through the Iridium in the middle of a worship set live in the mix unless they simply guess right.
Now the quad cortex is coming very soon, the Boss GT1000 will probably get an update that will improve the response of that unit, and the Headrush will probably up its game at some point, all leaving you with so many options your head will explode trying to make sure you own the best most authentic sounding non-real digital all in one unit.
It sounds to me like the verbs are dialed in a little brighter and more full on the helix (which I like). Great job guys!
I ADORE my
Helix, but I can barely tell the difference; both units sound fan-freaking-fabulous!
I listened to this with my eyes closed and opened them just to see which one was which after each switch. I was always wrong when I opened my eyes to which unit was showing. 😂
Think the Helix could use a little more drive, and the mids sound like they are eq'd differently. But very close, nobody is going to be able to tell which live
By the time the sound translates to the board then the room/ congregation, nobody knows the difference.
Thankyou for the comparison
God knows the difference.
Yea man , barely anyone notices all these differences. At the end of the day what fits in the pocket is the king😇🙏
I have the AXE FX III and Helix LT (for now) and the AXE wins for so many reasons.
Primarily the FX though. No contest there. It's really a true studio in a box.
Helix users - "Helix sounds so much better" - AxeFX users " "AxeFX sounds so much better"
Honestly, they sound so similar that nobody will know. Maybe you and the sound guy.
Jonathan Martin this comment here.
@@mehegama I mean, don't get me wrong. I KNOW people beg for these comparison videos, and I thank WT for taking the time to do it. But users are so brand loyal in this market.
Jonathan Martin I have both and through the same ir, you need to be a sound engineer to tell the difference. As if two,say, dual recs will ever sound the same exactly. Most of it is cork sniffing
my exact thoughts..
Keep in mind this is just one amp model. The fractal units quickly pull away from the competition when viewed as a whole.
Do an updated version of this. Helix vs FM9
Best side-by-side comparison out there! Thanks.
Helix wet effects sounded wider but quite frankly; I would be happy with either. Keeping my helix with my helix native plugin for Logic.
I just noticed the same thing literally two second before I read your comment! Hah! I like the width
Ok... I think we can all agree, regardless which platform you use, the rig that inspires you to play is the BEST!
The rig with the most play time wins.
For sure. Brad made this point during our discussion at the end.
Wow, these are actually a lot different than I expected them to be...not a bad sound from either unit, but I feel like I'll definitely stick with my Helix!
😂
@@legendfpv ?
Pretty impressed as per how the Helix sounds beside the Axe FX III
I’ve A/B’ed both and the difference is immediately noticeable in person when you put a reverb block in each unit. The Axe-Fx has really high quality reverbs. In a full band mix, not too noticeable though.
Strictly for amp tones, using the same IR, I couldn’t notice a difference for what I do. A slight difference might be noticed on distorted sustained chords in particular, Helix seems to have a more “flat” sound in the sustain that perhaps helps it be forward in the mix, while the Axe-Fx seems to have more complexity/movement in the chord sustain.
I use and like both!
I like Axe FX sound better, I would love playing through it better (I think) but I like the all-in-one of the Helix better than I like the sound of the Axe FX
I'm glad I stopped by, my worship skills have measurably improved
The difference between good and great is in the detail... You have to be paying attention, to notice that detail. And in the end, you have to pay for that detail. The diminishing return argument falls apart when you can get an app+Bluetooth control pedal for less than $200. Bias Amp on iOS can amp match a sound to pretty close. Is the Helix/Kemper/AFX worth the price difference? To me... Yes they are. The detail, the feel, the flexibility - at each step up, in that order (Line6, Kemper, Fractal), they are definitely worth the difference.... To me....
Just add another EQ inside your Helix patch and it will sound exactly like the Axe FX
Nope!
No it won't
Thanks for doing this. I’m considering selling my rack mounted Mesa gear and cabinets for something I can actually carry by myself. This was extremely helpful. Thx again!!
I think everyone wins b/c both sound great. Any differences that are noted (in the video or any of the comments) could be "fixed" with an EQ to taste (if you prefer the Axe then you may want to dial out the mids or for Helix may need to dial them up).
Had AxeFxIII and helix, now I have Kemper and Overloud Th-U. To me the best of all is the Kemper but it’s old and have a lot of boring drawbacks (no usb audio, no dual amp, no color screen,..) and Th-U is better than AxeFxIII (yes!... made me sell the AxeFxIII....)
The best for your money is THU (software) or HX Stomp (pedal)
The best quality is on Kemper.
I really enjoy your reviews. I currently have an FM3. I am a little disappointed by the lack of CPU power. I feel like maybe I should have bought a Helix.......
Great video! Thank you so much for making this.
You have convinced me without a doubt to buy a Fractal FM3 as soon as my name reaches the top of the wait list. It has many of the same advantages as Axe FX III but without the disadvantages of costing more than Helix or having to deal with offstage hardware. The FM3 + FC6 combo gives you 9 programmable foot switches for $1,500. If you don’t already own an expression pedal, you can buy from Fractal for a little over $100 or buy another brand, such as Moog, and keep the whole rig under $1,600. Say goodbye to the law of diminishing returns!
Listening to this through my studio (Event BAS 20/20) monitors, I hear a huge difference. I own both platforms myself and what I have found is that the base tones in the helix seem darker than the axe fx 3. The axe fx 3 has a high end thing that it just does with 90 percent of the IR'S. As demonstrated in this video, there is definently a top end sparkle in the axe fx 3. I prefer the tone from the helix on this particular test. The helix gets you there tone wise much faster than the axe fx 3. I find myself often with the axe fx 3 getting option paralisys. I have learned to grab an amp and then test 2 cab ir's ( one bright and one dark) blend them and then go to the tone knobs on the amp block and adjust. That seems to be the faster way to do it on the axe fx. On the helix, again, if you have a few good ir's (not a fan of the helix's stock cabs) you can dial in a great tone very fast.
Gentlemen. I use your presets on a weekly basis on both platforms and love what you do. They're easily worth double what you charge us for. And we all sincerely thank you. God bless ya! Oh, and if you like some good Christian rock, check out faithhead.com! Keep on keeping on, and thank you for doing what you do for our awesome Lord and Savior!
Edit: all of our newest album was recorded using axe fx3 and helix for all guitars and bass. They're both great live and studio tools.
@@zwip778 Dont get me wrong, I love the "glassiness" you speak on, I was just giving my opinion solely on the 2 patches demonstrated. I like my praise and worship patch a little on the darker side just because on so many p&w songs the electric guitar is a support instrument. If I need it to stand out, I make it stand out by going to bridge position or kick on a treble boost....Merry Christmas everyone, God bless!
@@zwip778 also,you just taught me something on the helix I've not tried, my next preset build I will try the bias and master trick
Axe-FX sounds more focused and real to me. It could be the effects
I agree with most of your comments, I've owned the Helix and no matter what I tried, I just could not get that full sound, especially on crunch an high gain. I purchased presets from Rhett Schull, an others an although nice presets, it didn't satisfy. The iems while on Helix were also horrible, including bands wedges. I went back to my board an amp, but then took a plunge on fractal fm9. WORLDS APART! 2 live shows and the difference is amazing. I'm learning even more tips from Cooper and can't wait to play the fm9 this weekend again. Imo the fm9 is top dog. Only complaint is screen size an as u mentioned user friendliness on the fly. Great video.
Spot on. I own a Helix Floor and I just bought the AxeFX III. Yes the fractal is more powerful, yes the amp models do sound a bit fuller as do the effects. Sadly Cliff and the guys at Fractal are engineers and they think like engineers sitting at a desk, not like performers on a stage. The AxeFX is a royal PITA to navigate through and set up. I took their word for it when they said they had made it much easier to use. No, they most certainly have not. Their interface architecture is still basically the same and is convoluted with entirely too many button pushes, knob turns, etc. to get to parameters that need to be edited. Nothing about it is intuitive (unless of course you are one of the designers...eye roll). Fractal engineers seem to adore the "Lets bury it in a submenu" way of doing things, performers do not. They want rapid access to parameters if they need to be tweaked (as per the example given in this video). Just hook up the FC-12 for the first time and try and find the tuner function. Seriously, what? It's just stupid. They both have their pros and cons but I'm pretty sure the Helix Floor has outsold all of the various models of Fractal units combined. There is a reason for that. Wise up, Cliff!
I've used both. I experienced a small, but noticeable amount of latency in the Helix that I couldn't get used to. It felt like playing through an interface into a computer. I returned the Helix and bought an Iridium that I'm much happier with.
Chris Potts latency? I can’t say I’ve ever felt that playing at home or on stage.
Never experienced latency with my Helix. Maybe you got a lemon?
I just found that axefx is way easier to get a good sound. In the end if you really know how to EQ the helix you can make it sound good but I found it takes you lots of time to get sounds out of the helix that sound as good as stock Axefx sounds
I think the Fractal has more gain in this comparision, but it is increblely close!
They sound exactly the same, I can hardly tell any difference. The best option for me is going to be the hx stomp xl with the york audio IRs I have. This video proves stock cabs have a bigger effect on tone than the amp models them selves.
Great vid! Would love to see y'all develop some Worship patches for the Hotone Ampero (for us folks on a budget). Cheers!
Real & authentic worship, with... a synthetic amp, synthetic speaker, cab, impulse response, synthetic delay, synthetic reverb and synthetic distortion pedal. :D
Just kidding - don' flame me. I play the Axe-Fx III for worship on both guitar and bass, and LOVE IT!! I personally cannot understand why anyone would want to use a Kemper or Helix when the III is available. But... to each their own. Keep strummin' and making music all! Love what you guys do, and thanks for doing it.
The problem is that the Axe Fx 3 (or Fm3) aren't "available". Theres a waitlist and even then they're twice the price. For someone who plays four songs on a Sunday as a volunteer, spending $3k+ on gear that you had to wait 3-9 months to get is unrealistic for most of us.
Thank you for your comparison. My current application is mostly project studio. I believe I may sell my whole rig amps/cabs as I live in 2 apt home and want to be nice to neighbor. Also new lifting (weight) restrictions. I agree completely your comments on the difference in tone and the fractal may have something on the helix. A friend lent me a helix. I did not like it at all. Guess I will go fractal. I have also heard the fractal has a more realistic "feel" that is more musical. Take Care
Great video, totally agree whatever amp modeler inspires someone to play is the right choice. One difference I wanted to point out is that for the thousand more which is a lot of money, you do get basically an pro level 8 i/o interface that is easily worth a thousand by itself and an fx unit that is at eventide level again that’s easily a thousand, and the big one is it can run 2 paths at once so 2 band members can run at the same time
Axe FX is for those that REALLY want to tweak, or want to do complex signal paths, or like to created pedals and FX (because you can change almost everything on the stomps and fx, combine them in more complex ways etc. Helix for simple, good modelling, not doing rea complex stuff.
+1 for helix! Sounds cleaner
I listened to it on quality headphones and it sounds clearer.
My question is not so much the inline stuff of recording... which I know will be good with either. But what about the playing it live.... do either push more air like a real tube amp? Do either feel more like a real amp at volume?
i love them both! i like the reverbs on the helix just a bit better. but there’s very little difference. call me crazy but i feel that the axe fx is just a little darker
For the Difference of tones here I would just still have to pick the Helix for ease of Use and the helix community and resources.
A touch more gain and compression, maybe a little EQ tweaking and I think this "comparison" comes out significantly more even. That said, the clarity you hear from the Helix here is actually quite nice in a couple of spots.
listening with monitors no noticeable difference but with headphones there was. Monitors seem more true. I prefer Helix though.
Question for you guys, I know this is kinda out of topic. But are you guys gonna start covering headrush gigboard / pedal board?
When you make patches for each song of the set. Do you just re-arrange each Sunday so your patches are right next to each other? A morgan in the Helix would be sweet!
I just have a separate setlist in the Helix called 'Sunday', and I copy/paste the song patches for that weekend into it in the order we're doing them.
The Axe sounds more "open" (but not as open as a tube amp) than the helix but in a mix with other instruments compression, effects, signal processing, both sound good to release a record no one can tell if it's one or the other ^^
Had the helix I ended up selling it. It just did t fill the room, that certain something especially in drive modes. With the fractal fm 9 the stock amps are incredible. I use live exclusively now, it feel more like amp in room. My only gripe is on the fly adjustments, as u mentioned helix was easier.
Thinking of purchasing a helix. Did you use the helix 3.0 firmware?
Axe sounds thicker and dirtier, but I prefer the cleaner and more articulate sound of Helix
The FX3 running the Ares firmware sounds nothing like what a current one running the Cygnus firmware sounds like. In addition, both modelers in this comparison are so highly EQ'd they've lost the lows and highs that would differentiate them normally. Having had two Helix Floors and a Stomp, and FM3/FM9 and FX3 Fractals, all running their current firmware, I'm very familiar with their sounds and what they can do and sound like, and this doesn't represent either system well.
Great Video! I was just discussing this with my Sweetwater Rep. I can hear differences but I don't think one is better than the other and the differences are so subtle in tone that it's negligible. I would think the AxeFX III can probably do a lot more due to the power in the DSP processor but from this video I think it comes down to how much to you need? So now I'm more interested in the Tone Junkie IR's.
If you're into clean tones for worship the helix will be great but if you play rock or metal the helix sounds terrible. Totally nasal tone. That's where the fractal shines with it's higher power processing and modeling engine.
Yeah but the Fractal is a convoluted mess to navigate through. The Helix is so much better in the way it's laid out and how it integrates with the musician. You won't be doing any patch tweaking while playing with the AxeFX. With the Helix it's easy.
I’m team Helix all the way. I’m pretty sure I’m not smart enough for the Fractal. Random question though: What guitar is this? It’s not your usual Shelton-that thing has three pickups, so this can’t just be a pick guard swap. Major mods? The Ristrettos were all the pickups you’d ever need?
Granted I'm just listening through desktop computer speakers, but the Axe seems to have a more pronounced high-mid pop to it. They both sound great, and neither seems 'better', but much easier to hear the difference than I might have expected.
I love my axe ii but I'm switching to helix because the difference is marginal and I want something easier to use.
Why does worship musicians copy the U2 sound? I mean where did it start?
Why not?
The modern worship guitar tone came out of the UK with the Vineyard stuff in the 80s and exploded from there
Axe is a little smoother. Definitely not better enough to justify the cost increase and the lack of ease of use compared to the Helix.
Awesome video as always! Could you guys make a video on how you make videos lol, how to mix guitar, voice and video on a user friendly way for worship musicians wanting to up their game on the videos?? I have a axe fx III, a MacBook Pro with logic and Final Cut Pro but final cut has been really confusing for me at least. Or if you could direct me to any instructional you know of, thank you guys and keep up the great work!
How did you know I stay up to 2a.m. playing? I just got the helix and love it. Bought one of your patches and used it in church this Sunday. So thanks!
Can the Ax FX3 free patch be used in the AX8
Thank you for your videos. I know they have been great blessing to ones that are running the same equipment you have. But for ones that are on a budget or running older gear, is there a way for you to do videos on those kinds of boards as well? For example, I am running an older Line 6 M13 board, and I would really appreciate some videos on custom patches and uses for that.
The helix rack has the same IO that the axe fx has i think. It even has the clean di out. But the ace fx and the helix have a clean di channel that always gets recorded when using usb
Please do another test between the two, now that Cynagus is out in axe fx 3, please.
USB Output 7/8 on the Helix are also a dry DI.
Helix is fine for clean tones, I honestly cost tell the difference. But where it really stumbles is with the distortion. Don't typically use that in worship. But if you're into metal or rock the Axe is the only option. Line 6 gets nasally with distortion. So to me the Axe is more than worth the price difference as it gives you that flexibility. I can't stand the sound of the helix with distortion. Like nails on a chalkboard.
Storm Rising I still like a real amp best, and the stomp is great for boost, effects and attenuation with the 4cm.
FIRST REAL AMPS FOR LYFE
"bAcK iN mY dAy"
@DIY nah he's an iridium guy now :D
Axe sounds middy and the Helix sounds mid-scooped, and the Helix sounds like it has less gain applied in the patch. Both sit well in the mix though, just a preference thing really. Honestly with a little more EQ work I think you could have gotten the Helix to sound identical. I do wish the Helix had the AC20 and the Fender Princeton, those sound AMAZING in the AxeFX
Axe FX sounded more open, cleaner highs, less muddy. Can you achieve the same through Eq? If so, then go the cheaper Helix
great tones! one question, tho:
i recently bought the match modified IR pack by tonejunkie but i dont remember them having a dc-30 cab pack in the list (it says "matchless EDS cabinet").. could someone link me this IR pack? or is it the same as the match modified?
Had Helix for about a year then sold it. Got FXIII recently and I prefer the Axe FXIII by a good margin. But Helix ain’t bad 😁
Axe fx for sure. But that’s not Saying helix or stomp cant get you through a fly gig. If all I could carry is my gig Bag then it’s stomp. But if I’m hanging in my studio space at home I’ll dig into axfx/kemper. But to be honest. It nice sometimes to just turn on stomp and not need to tweak as much on the parameters.
axe-fx lll has around 800hz boost compare to helix.
Very helpful video. I did think the Fractal sounded a bit better, but I need simple and portable, so I’ll stay with Helix. BTW, on Helix I use the output at the end of the chain to give a dB boost, as opposed to adding a block. I think you can even assign it to a foot switch if you want. Any downside to that method?
I see your point with diminishing returns, but it was unfortunate that you used modeling as an example given that the hx stomp is in the $500 range and gives you the same modelling as the helix haha. Bradford, what made you switch over from the hx stomp to the iridium on your board? Thanks for these videos, guys!
Helix is awesome
Hèlix is as good as anything out
They don't sound that different to me... 🤔
Axe fx III is more crunch 👍🏽
How
Helix delay has much more presence and bounce back. Great vid guys.
That's down to settings not the unit
The legend about axe fx3 being better than helix...helix way better thanks for the video
They both sound great! There's like a more prominent lower mid's thing going on in the AXE FX III. It's hard to not be biased being I love fractal. I'm loving the AX8 and it meets all my needs.
Doug Camero more low mids in helix by far. Ownhammer recommends a cut for helix at 400hz range with 2.1 q for parametric eq.
Yeah those IRs make it so that both sound so close that I can't tell the difference if I'm not looking at the screen through my 280HD monitors.
Great demo. Why does all new Christian music sound like U2? It's neat, but it all sounds that way.
Creo que el guitarrista usaba con frecuencia el delay, el ritmo, círculos de acordes similares.
Hello from Spain. I'm amateur guitarist and ever analog. I want to buy a digital pedalboard and i´d like your opinion because you have tried both models; FM3 or HELIX FLOOR?. With your experience, better sounds, effects, easiest to use or program presets...etc. THANKS
What u2 song was that?
I actually have both and I actually don’t really find a huge difference, lately I actually digging my Kemper a bit more.
Art Sal love the kemper.
I think this was a very odd choice of a tone to demonstrate which device sounds better.
I don't own either unit but am in the market for both, which is why I'm listening to these comparisons. There is not nearly enough of a sound difference here to justify the roughly $1,000 price difference. I'm going with the Helix. They're both excellent.
Axe FX 3 FM9???
am I the only one here who hears the AXE being played on the bridge pickup and the line 6 on the bridge/neck?
You kinda have to take all the effects off to hear the subtle differences guys.🤐
Helix Sound more Natural i love it Helix
Ha - your comment came in before you would have even had time to listen to the demo... They both sound natural :).
Worship Tutorials hahahaha
Worship Tutorials Hahahaha, this is gold! 😂
Fractal seemed a little brighter. Not worse or better. Just brighter
To my ears, AXE has more...pardon the expression "balls" than the Helix. The sound is thicker and meatier, like a perfectly cooked steak.
I own a Helix and debating an AXE. Maybe an AX8, or a used AXE rack.
Hey Guy's I have a AX8 playing thew Mesa Boggie tc50 sometimes I like just using tc50. Just can't beat the real amp sound.
Got to be real here, even if you use a super cheap $80 ZOOM G1 FOUR, with those subtle tones buried under those piercing delays and reverb, it still wouldn't make any difference.The DELAYS and REVERB is just too overwhelming.
The axe fx has a funky piercing cut in the high mids that is uncomfortable to my ears in this comparison. The verb in the hellx is wider sounding as well. The axe sounds a bit “messier” for lack of a better term which can work in its favor for realism.
Nice❤️😇😍🎶