If I had a peso everytime japanese media portrays cutting your loved one's head as a form of true commitment, I would have two pesos. Which is quite weird considering it happened twice.
If I remember medieval japanese are really big fans of slicing their own intestines, for all sorts of reasons, such as forgetting to feed their lord's goldfish
Please don't trust me on this (i might be wrong), but the closest you've got would be in Highlander the series when Duncan is in Japan and agrees to assist his savior in committing seppuku. In such case, we're talking only about honor, of course.
The pain on her face at the realization she is abandoned by her chosen second and might have to kill herself by her own hand condemning herself to hell (by her Catholic faith) is pure art.....such an amazing performance. As is the expression of relief when Blackthorne realizes this when he tells her to pay hell no mind.
The point is that he was willing to do something he was totally against for someone he loved and be haunted by it forever. That is different than trying to convince her for what he himself wanted. I think she respected it immensely.
The fact he decided to become his second means he truly loves her. Despite not wanting her to go thru commiting sepuku, he’d rather be the second then allow her to feel like she’s damned to hell. It’s quite poetic for him to do it considering her earlier quote on how a flowers beauty or purpose is when it falls “flowers are only flowers when it falls”. Her whole life after her father’s death is wanting to die, but now her death is given purpose and meaning to her and to those she cares about.
The white elephant in the room on this video is that the most poignant moment of the scene is left out. That is when Mariko San does not have the strength to pick herself up and so Blackthorne extends his hand, and they lock eyes. I was close to sobbing!!
Subtle thing about this episode: those with a keen eye would spot that Blackthorne has been sword-training. Everything about his stance and grip and posture has changed from the first time at the beach with Yabushige, where he couldn’t even grip the sword properly. In this episode, he even performs a manoeuvre and kills someone who was trying to kill him. Good on him for putting in the work.
@@Lalit02Dhanwani Blackthorne's character is based on William Adams, who was in fact given the title of samurai with no more sword training than we see here in the show. Don't be dumb.
"Let it from your mind." He tells her to unburden herself of the fear for her own soul, that he understands his true task is not just to ease her death by being her second, but by risking his own soul for hers.
It is a stunning scene. One of the best of this show. Her bravery and her loyal heart makes her a true samurai heroine. Whithout John She would have been left alone in this heartbreakingly heavy situation. No one was there to secont her untill John step forward to do it. Their nonverbal communication was very touching. Both Anna and Cosmo deservs a bow for this scene. Great actors!
her fake seppuku shit was disgusting she never meant to kill herself she cry for seppuku 16 years and never did anything until it was time when she know she isn't going to survive she put a show .
@@cupofjoe.88 this is fiction story there no ishido nor mariko. it took her 16 f***ing years to do what she wanted when she know there is no way she would live so she die dramatically/
For those who is not familiar, the first act of Seppuku is extremely painful if done properly in the guts (instead of the heart). The second act liberates the samurai from the pain. The last psychological chess move was not giving Mariko the second act to instill fear on her. She apparently went with the Seppuku anyway. Blackthorn understood that and volunteered to be the second act. Japanese legend said that some defeated samurai opened up their stomach, took their guts out, and chop them to pieces in front of the winning party before leaning forward for the second act. That action terrified the winning party and served as the samurai's last fighting effort.
@@ElZilchoYoNot always, but yes, for female samurai going straight to the throat cut was deemed as honorable, female seppuku was relatively rare anyways making it a kind of individual event each case, Mariko protesting Lord Ishido actions through the most painful ceremony would had been devastating to him
As messed up as that was It was romantic in its own way Its shows that despite how much he hates seeing her kill herself he still stands and with her And she knows how he feels and appreciate him for that
The way they shot how Anjin helps Mariko to get up by offering his hand and her accepting it looks almost like a marriage ceremony with guests looking at newly wed.
I agree! Historically, it was done so that the lady would die in a dignified pose. When she tied her knees together, I knew this was being taken seriously.
She was a force of nature recognized by Toronaga Sama, Blackthorne, and Fr. Martin Alveto. Ironically, they all thought that they would save her....except Yoshi Toronaga the supreme tactician. It simply blows minds! Great writing!
You definitely should read the book after the show is over. The show skipped a LOT of things. When Mariko died in the book I was heartbroken, their love story is much more complex and sweet there.
@@factspoken9062 so what, books don't have cinematography, scores, acting. I wanna see raw emotion tears dropping, voice cracking ,I don't wanna imagine these things I wanna see and hear them
It is unlikely blackthorne would perform his job as second well. But he saw it as sparing her damnation. So even though she may not die quickly, in his eyes what is that to eternal torment.
He's definitely had some training with a cutlass and has combat experience, as you see ample demonstration of later in the episode. I'm pretty sure the toughest thing about this for him is not the physical act of cutting off her head itself. It's the anguish of who he has to do it to.
Madame knows a lot about suffering. To ask for help from a man who for the first time almost held a sword in his hands, we saw how he, having met Yabushige on the shore, held it
He's held swords before, he's an English mariner, of course he can use a sword. He just doesn't know the Japanese style of fighting. But he can carry out a slashing blow easily.
Although a lady could also commit seppuku equivalent (as uncommon cases), calling this seppuku is wrong as she targets her heart. 2:21 It looks like some Japanese say that this scene is wrong as a lady is not supposed to commit seppuku, but the truth is that she is not committing seppuku in this scene. Nobody in the show called it seppuku. Just some audiences or critics wrongly call it seppuku, which is wrong.
What many Japanese worry about is whether this drama will reinforce misunderstandings and prejudices. So, we comment on parts of fiction that are significantly different from reality. It would be fine if all the content of the drama were fiction, but since this era, the amount of records has increased rapidly and the facts are becoming more detailed. On the other hand, Japanese cannot help but feel uncomfortable with dramas based on original works that contain a lot of fiction and a little historical fact. William Adams, who was the model for John Blackthorne, is a real person, but after the historic battle (Battle of Sekigahara) in 1600, he was favored by Ieyasu (Toranaga) and became a hatamoto(direct vassal of shogun). It's not like he was active before that battle. I would like to clearly recognize that fact. It may be unavoidable to have flashy or cruel directions for entertainment, but Hosokawa Gracia, who was the model for Toda Mariko, did not commit suicide to protect her faith, but instead had her family vassal kill her. Therefore, she remains the tragic heroine of the Sengoku period. In this drama, Mariko says "suicide,'' and then she says "kaishaku,'' so even though she asks for "kaishaku'' as punishment for breaking her faith, this is out of Japanese common sense. In other words, Japanese think that such "suicide'' is "actually seppuku,'' and are confused by this strangeness. I understand that it was difficult, but I wish they had expressed "kaishaku'' correctly, just like "seppuku.'' 多くの日本人が心配するのは、このドラマで逆に誤解や偏見が助長されないかということです。だから、事実と大きく異なったフィクションの部分に対し、コメントするのです。ドラマ内容全てがフィクションであったら良いのですが、この時代から、記録の量がぐっと増えてきて事実が詳しくわかってきます。これに反し、多くのフィクションと少ない史実の混じった原作のドラマに、日本人は違和感を覚えざるを得ないのです。ジョン・ブラックソーンのモデルとなったウィリアム・アダムズは実在の人物ですが、1600年の歴史的な戦い(関ヶ原の戦い)の後、家康(虎長)の気に入られ、旗本になっていますから、その戦いの前から活動をしたわけではありません。その事実ははっきりと認識して欲しいのです。娯楽作品にするには派手だったり残虐だったりする演出も仕方ないかもしれませんが、戸田鞠子のモデルとなった細川ガラシャは、信仰を守って自殺せず、家来に自身を殺させているため、戦国時代の悲劇のヒロインであることに変わりはありません。このドラマ内で鞠子は「自害」と言ってから、続いて「介錯」と言っているため、信仰を破った罰として「介錯」を頼んでも、これは日本人の常識から外れます。つまり、その「自害」は「実質上の切腹」になると日本人は考え、その奇妙さに戸惑うのです。難しかったことはわかりますが、「切腹」と同様に「介錯」も正しく表現して欲しかったと思います。
Western based TV drama is primarily for entertainment rather than historical accuracy. For this reason the drama may not always support the facts. Its interesting that Japanese may feel uncomfortable with such dramas. These dramas are not meant as historical documentaries, although they may appear like that at times. Id like to see more factual historical dramas though. History often has lessons for the future than can be lost in the desire for entertainment.
@@specialandroid1603 様(sama) It is often the case that historical events that were once accepted as established knowledge turn out to be completely wrong as research and studies are advanced. I am grateful that there are people like you who think wisely about historical dramas based on Japan. It is very difficult for anyone to understand a different culture, but if we do not make the effort, terrible misunderstandings will not go away.
He's not her second in the book. Yabu is, and despite being an absolute a-hole he wants to be perfect for her which is cool because the honouring of their traditions transcend their relationships.
I love this version more. Yabu second her is so false when he in fact betray them all. It would just be an act. While this version was the ultimate romantic scene amongst this series John and Marikos special bond.
I honestly want to watch this one because it is very good and the plot of it reminds me of the Movie called "The Last Samurai" and that one will get you crying every time you see it! 😭
I loathed Ishido as much as anyone watching the series, but he was a great villain. Knowing that he had no intention of allowing any of Mariko's party to leave didn't diminish the power of this scene - magnificent.
I love the room temp IQs in the comments explaining what happens in a simple scene as if they think they are the only ones on earth capable of understanding it.
He's so mumbly, I can't understand what he says after telling her that he'll do it. Sounds like "there's no place I haven't already known, [insert unintelligible gibberish here]"
I agree, I think he says “Hell is no place I haven’t already known, let it from your mind” while trying to spare her from damnation for committing suicide without someone as her second.
@@patrician3821 I'm a native speaker and I struggled with that line. I don't know why TV and movies think having actors mumble their lines somehow makes it better nowadays.
That's how you make a strong female character beloved by everyone whose sacrifice moved us to tears. Based upon excellent writing, authenticity and passion. Take notes woke $eta$ds.
a number of things wrong with this. Female samurai do not commit Seppuku they commit Jigai. When commiting Jigai the dagger is used to cut their throat not driver into their heart as Mariko intended. And finally since the jugglular was cut it brought about a very rapid death the act of beheading was not required so Blackthorne wouldn't have had to at as her second.
This is not actually seppuku scene. Seppuku, 切腹, cut the belly, is the manner of samurai. For ladies of samurai family often committed suicide but not cut belly but stab their chest or cut their neck. Mariko tried to stab her chest.
Mariko had to die in a way that moved lords to rebellion against Ishido. When he stopped seppuku, other way had to orchestrated that blamed him. For Yabu warring other is just an alibi for himself.
I'd just like to point out that Japanese female nobility from that era almost always perform this ritual with a stab into the throat that results in fast death that will not require a second for a mercy beheading. That she chooses a belly slice is very unbecoming for her class but perhaps she wants a slower death to allow for her end to be done by a second to avoid the self deletion mortal sin of her Catholic faith. Also, I would also point out that her thick long hair would almost certainly prevent a clean cut to the neck. Had John had to cut through all that hair with a thin light katana - he would certainly need several strokes. Not a good fast ending.
Everyone is wrong. Mariko looks at John not out of relief or some deep realization that he now understands. But out of deep regret and sadness that this man that she loves was the last person she wanted to put through this. She knows it would cause him great pain. And she regrets this. But her resolve cannot be diminished and she proceeds.
Yes, both out of his respect and love for her and because he knew what it would mean to take her own life as a Christian. He stepped in to have her back when no one else would and to save her from damnation. Even if he had doubt in that belief, he knew she didn't.
Mariko didn't commit Seppuku because Seppuku is for Men. Momen stabbed their throat with knives instead by theirselves. Actually, I've never seen or read women asked to cut their heads off as same as men, though many women who's heads were cut for punishment. This drama is based on the original story written by a westerner and there are some different scenes from the real.
This is completely wrong. Kaishaku is something that is done in response to seppuku. Women do not and cannot commit seppuku. So if she were allowed to commit suicide like in this video, she would die with a dagger to strike her heart. If she didn't die, someone else might have stabbed her to death. Her model, Hosokawa Gracia did not commit suicide, but had her family vassal stab her with his spear and kill her.
You're arguing with historical experts from Japan that were brought in for this show. One of the producers is Toranaga's actor who is ensuring it's as accurate as possible despite being dumbed down for western audiences.
@@LordKamos777 様(sama) This is not something to argue. It's a common sense that all Japanese people have, except for people who aren't particularly interested in history. If anyone knows a unique example of a woman being kaishaku when she commits suicide, I would like to know more about it. There must have been many parts of the drama where even Sanada-san had to compromise.
@@佐藤広-q2uexcept she is aiming for her heart. You see it the moment after the camera shifts when Ishido drops the permit. Nor is it valid to expect her to go out the same way as Gracia did as first and foremost - this is historical fiction. Hell Ochiba is supposed to be Chacha, who decidedly isn’t Nobunagas daughter but his sisters.
She asks him to wait until she has fallen. I suspect she wanted to be unconcious before he attempts to behead her. He would have surely made a mess of it.
Wrong. ladies did not commit seppuku, it is only for Samurai. Samurai ladies kill themselves by the knife thrusting throat or heart. It is difficult for untrained person to cut off human head by sword. Unsightly and ugly beheading was a shame of the beheader and in this case he also had to kill himself because of this shame. So, Anjin second is impossible.
Samurai women did not commit "seppuku", which means cutting the belly. They would stab themselves in the throat. Not sure if they used "seconds" the way that men did either. Strictly speaking, a second was not necessary if a samurai carried out seppuku properly. However, as it was very painful, and required great commitment and willpower even for a dedicated samurai, it could be difficult to properly complete the act, so the custom of using a second, who would decapitate the person committing seppuku once they had begun the process of slitting open their abdomen became customary. Once the person had started the act, honor was served, and the second could decapitate them to end the pain and ensure the end came quickly. Attempting to cut off Mariko's head from behind here might be problematic. Her hair might create issues, possibly deflecting even a sharp sword before contacting the neck bones. It is also unlikely that Blackthorn would have had the skill and technique to carry out the procedure properly, even if he had been getting a few sword lessons. This is a deviation from the novel that was unnecessary, IMHO.
Just a question: here, Mariko recounts that her father was a good man who assassinated the boss of Toranaga's dead boss because the said guy was corrupt. I know the Big Boss her dad kills is based on Oda Nobunaga, the most famous Shogun to have ever lived. Question: though it is commonly believed that Nobunaga was eccentric and morally ambiguous, was he really corrupt?
Nobunaga thoughts actually very advanced. In the perspective of japanese people, maybe he really look like a corrupted person because nobunaga action seem like having many influence of western people
I am fairly sure Japanese woman commited suicide under certain circumstances, the only debate would be the word Seppku. It's not Seppku but it is a suicide.
"Jigai" , kill oneself, was common among samurai-class ladies. They pierced their throat or heart as Mariko attempted. Otama or Gracia Hosokawa, model of Mariko did that.
You know some of us have jobs and don't stay up until 1am to watch this, but you put spoilers in the title of your video. "Don't recommend this channel"
@Viktorreznov1942 good for you. How do you avoid spoilers when the first video on top of the screen has a spoiler in the title? Maybe learn to avoid being a dick.
@dan6822 First of all the title isn't entirely accurate, 2nd you can't expect anyone to stop posting spoilers, so if you don't want to see spoilers you have to avoid anything related to the show as soon as you see it, it's actually easy to just not read the title, and the easiest way altogether is to watch it as soon as it drops.
If Season 1 of this work is modeled on the eve of Sekigahara, I would like Season 2 to create ``Winter Camp'' and ``Summer Camp'' based on the ``Battle of Sekigahara'', which was an internal conflict after unification. After the novel was completed, Game of Thrones quickly developed a script and produced additional seasons. It would be a shame if Shogun ended after season 1. The story is about to get interesting.
She will do that for her culture anyway And watching your lover die in pain also is not love And don’t think about convince her stop suicide, the fact she insist to do that prove she put her country culture above everything else
Now, I can see that Mariko has two kids, both teenagers, a boy and a girl. Mariko is not older than 35, I guess. So I ask: How old was she when she had her kids?
Mariko San is about to commit seppuku, but women in medieval Japan didn't pierce their hearts, they actually slit their own throats. So at this point the fiction is inaccurate.
What other show could manage "I'm gonna cut your head off" as a declaration of truest love?
Not a movie or drama, but Mikasa cuts Eren's head as a token of her love toward him😭
If I had a peso everytime japanese media portrays cutting your loved one's head as a form of true commitment, I would have two pesos. Which is quite weird considering it happened twice.
@@kkate432 Thanks for the spoiler
If I remember medieval japanese are really big fans of slicing their own intestines, for all sorts of reasons, such as forgetting to feed their lord's goldfish
Please don't trust me on this (i might be wrong), but the closest you've got would be in Highlander the series when Duncan is in Japan and agrees to assist his savior in committing seppuku. In such case, we're talking only about honor, of course.
The pain on her face at the realization she is abandoned by her chosen second and might have to kill herself by her own hand condemning herself to hell (by her Catholic faith) is pure art.....such an amazing performance. As is the expression of relief when Blackthorne realizes this when he tells her to pay hell no mind.
The point is that he was willing to do something he was totally against for someone he loved and be haunted by it forever. That is different than trying to convince her for what he himself wanted.
I think she respected it immensely.
I love that "hell is no place I haven't already known" was improvised by Cosmo. He really gets Blackthorne.
The fact he decided to become his second means he truly loves her. Despite not wanting her to go thru commiting sepuku, he’d rather be the second then allow her to feel like she’s damned to hell. It’s quite poetic for him to do it considering her earlier quote on how a flowers beauty or purpose is when it falls “flowers are only flowers when it falls”. Her whole life after her father’s death is wanting to die, but now her death is given purpose and meaning to her and to those she cares about.
Yes, truly romantic moment
Beautiful
The white elephant in the room on this video is that the most poignant moment of the scene is left out. That is when Mariko San does not have the strength to pick herself up and so Blackthorne extends his hand, and they lock eyes.
I was close to sobbing!!
Subtle thing about this episode: those with a keen eye would spot that Blackthorne has been sword-training. Everything about his stance and grip and posture has changed from the first time at the beach with Yabushige, where he couldn’t even grip the sword properly. In this episode, he even performs a manoeuvre and kills someone who was trying to kill him.
Good on him for putting in the work.
fake sword training of a fake samurai.
@@Lalit02Dhanwani Just google "WIlliam Adams, Miura Anjin"
@br0ken_107 Weebs be thinking that you need to be pureblooded japanese to even touch a katana.
@@Lalit02Dhanwani Blackthorne's character is based on William Adams, who was in fact given the title of samurai with no more sword training than we see here in the show. Don't be dumb.
@@morganhobson8941 so anyone can become samurai by sucking up.
"Let it from your mind."
He tells her to unburden herself of the fear for her own soul, that he understands his true task is not just to ease her death by being her second, but by risking his own soul for hers.
It is a stunning scene. One of the best of this show. Her bravery and her loyal heart makes her a true samurai heroine. Whithout John She would have been left alone in this heartbreakingly heavy situation. No one was there to secont her untill John step forward to do it. Their nonverbal communication was very touching. Both Anna and Cosmo deservs a bow for this scene. Great actors!
her fake seppuku shit was disgusting she never meant to kill herself she cry for seppuku 16 years and never did anything until it was time when she know she isn't going to survive she put a show .
@@Lalit02Dhanwani ishido burner account lol, she always wanted to die and she willingly put herself in front of the door for that reason
@@cupofjoe.88 this is fiction story
there no ishido nor mariko.
it took her 16 f***ing years to do what she wanted when she know there is no way she would live so she die dramatically/
@@Lalit02Dhanwani OMG you so angry ... OVER FUCKING TV SHOW!!
@@cupofjoe.88lolol or Buntaro burner account 😂 why is he so mad 🤣
For those who is not familiar, the first act of Seppuku is extremely painful if done properly in the guts (instead of the heart). The second act liberates the samurai from the pain. The last psychological chess move was not giving Mariko the second act to instill fear on her. She apparently went with the Seppuku anyway. Blackthorn understood that and volunteered to be the second act.
Japanese legend said that some defeated samurai opened up their stomach, took their guts out, and chop them to pieces in front of the winning party before leaning forward for the second act. That action terrified the winning party and served as the samurai's last fighting effort.
Female samurai seppuku was always a stab in the throat anyway, not the gut slicing.
It also had to do for Mariko that shed go to hell by suicide based on her Catholic faith. A poibt she made clear when she asked Kiyama to second her
@@Taylexwow great insight!
@@ElZilchoYo I am not convinced that the term "Samurai" can be applied to female at that time.
@@ElZilchoYoNot always, but yes, for female samurai going straight to the throat cut was deemed as honorable, female seppuku was relatively rare anyways making it a kind of individual event each case, Mariko protesting Lord Ishido actions through the most painful ceremony would had been devastating to him
As messed up as that was
It was romantic in its own way
Its shows that despite how much he hates seeing her kill herself he still stands and with her
And she knows how he feels and appreciate him for that
The way they shot how Anjin helps Mariko to get up by offering his hand and her accepting it looks almost like a marriage ceremony with guests looking at newly wed.
｢散りぬべき 時知りてこそ 世の中の 花も花なれ 人も人なれ｣
自害する時、膝を縛る作法がしっかり描写されているのに感心！！
I agree! Historically, it was done so that the lady would die in a dignified pose. When she tied her knees together, I knew this was being taken seriously.
細川ガラシャ
作法も何も女性は切腹しないし介錯されることもありません。
ものすごく少ない例であるそうですがそれも不確かです。
細川ガラシャはキリシタンだったから、自害（自殺）を認めて無いから、介錯頼んたようで😢
他のドラマでは槍で突いて貰ったり゙…
いずれにしても、細川護熙元総理のご先祖様は凄いですね🎉
@@PBurns-ng3gw
When you risk you own soul in hell so your waifu goes to heaven
Strangely romantic which is wild
It is the most romantic scene in all of there scenes. Breathtakingly beautiful unconditional love
Mariko-sama was an angel. She was so brave and beautiful.😢 Blackthorne loved and respected her equally.
She was a force of nature recognized by Toronaga Sama, Blackthorne, and Fr. Martin Alveto. Ironically, they all thought that they would save her....except Yoshi Toronaga the supreme tactician. It simply blows minds! Great writing!
広松の切腹があったからこそ、このシーンの緊張感が跳ね上がった
Its so good to not have read the books 😂😂😂 the intensity of these episode is just off the charts 👏👏👏
Same, also it wasn't a great idea watching this before going to bed. Now I can't sleep. lol.
The wait for the finale is going to be torturous!
You definitely should read the book after the show is over. The show skipped a LOT of things. When Mariko died in the book I was heartbroken, their love story is much more complex and sweet there.
@@VDA19 nah I want to see cinematography, wanna hear scores, wanna see acting, books don't have these so it's a pass 🤣🤣
movie capture just a small percent of what is conveyed in the book
@@factspoken9062 so what, books don't have cinematography, scores, acting. I wanna see raw emotion tears dropping, voice cracking ,I don't wanna imagine these things I wanna see and hear them
i cried like a baby the first time i saw this.
Jesus Crist mate ... I almost had an heart attack in This scene 😂
コメントの外国人の方々が、この時点で切腹と介錯を肯定的に受け止めているのが興味深い
It is unlikely blackthorne would perform his job as second well. But he saw it as sparing her damnation. So even though she may not die quickly, in his eyes what is that to eternal torment.
He can swing a sword, hes just unfamiliar with a katana
A similar thought occured to me as well. Especially since such clear importance is put on the rosary she gives him
He's definitely had some training with a cutlass and has combat experience, as you see ample demonstration of later in the episode. I'm pretty sure the toughest thing about this for him is not the physical act of cutting off her head itself. It's the anguish of who he has to do it to.
would be a hell of a thing to do for the first time. i can't imagine being the one to do that.
Id be concerned it wouldn't be a clean beheading which would be awful for John
This scene had me on the edge of my seat the whole time, it was so intense.
Madame knows a lot about suffering. To ask for help from a man who for the first time almost held a sword in his hands, we saw how he, having met Yabushige on the shore, held it
She didn't ask him, he was the only one willing to do it because he couldn't watch her suffer.
He's held swords before, he's an English mariner, of course he can use a sword. He just doesn't know the Japanese style of fighting. But he can carry out a slashing blow easily.
Although a lady could also commit seppuku equivalent (as uncommon cases), calling this seppuku is wrong as she targets her heart. 2:21
It looks like some Japanese say that this scene is wrong as a lady is not supposed to commit seppuku, but the truth is that she is not committing seppuku in this scene. Nobody in the show called it seppuku. Just some audiences or critics wrongly call it seppuku, which is wrong.
Then what is the female equivalent of Seppuku?
I believe its called "jigai". The ritual suicide from women of samurais. But normally its directed at the throat if im not mistaking
@@thespiritphoenix3798"jigai"
@@naylamuslima she isn't woman of a samurai but a hoe of Ajin,
I"ve never read 1000 pages in 2 days before this book. Thanks Mr. Clavel. And this is the best movie based on the book.
Is the book really that good?
Once❤ you start reading SHOGUN, you can't put it down@I_SuperHiro_I
@@I_SuperHiro_IBooks are always better than filmations.
@@I_SuperHiro_I yes its absolutely amazing, but very long so be prepared for a long read, if you decide to read it.
@@theprocrastinator12 I’m in hotels 4 nights a week, so I’ll have plenty of time. I just ordered a copy :)
What many Japanese worry about is whether this drama will reinforce misunderstandings and prejudices. So, we comment on parts of fiction that are significantly different from reality. It would be fine if all the content of the drama were fiction, but since this era, the amount of records has increased rapidly and the facts are becoming more detailed. On the other hand, Japanese cannot help but feel uncomfortable with dramas based on original works that contain a lot of fiction and a little historical fact. William Adams, who was the model for John Blackthorne, is a real person, but after the historic battle (Battle of Sekigahara) in 1600, he was favored by Ieyasu (Toranaga) and became a hatamoto(direct vassal of shogun). It's not like he was active before that battle. I would like to clearly recognize that fact. It may be unavoidable to have flashy or cruel directions for entertainment, but Hosokawa Gracia, who was the model for Toda Mariko, did not commit suicide to protect her faith, but instead had her family vassal kill her. Therefore, she remains the tragic heroine of the Sengoku period. In this drama, Mariko says "suicide,'' and then she says "kaishaku,'' so even though she asks for "kaishaku'' as punishment for breaking her faith, this is out of Japanese common sense. In other words, Japanese think that such "suicide'' is "actually seppuku,'' and are confused by this strangeness. I understand that it was difficult, but I wish they had expressed "kaishaku'' correctly, just like "seppuku.''
多くの日本人が心配するのは、このドラマで逆に誤解や偏見が助長されないかということです。だから、事実と大きく異なったフィクションの部分に対し、コメントするのです。ドラマ内容全てがフィクションであったら良いのですが、この時代から、記録の量がぐっと増えてきて事実が詳しくわかってきます。これに反し、多くのフィクションと少ない史実の混じった原作のドラマに、日本人は違和感を覚えざるを得ないのです。ジョン・ブラックソーンのモデルとなったウィリアム・アダムズは実在の人物ですが、1600年の歴史的な戦い(関ヶ原の戦い)の後、家康(虎長)の気に入られ、旗本になっていますから、その戦いの前から活動をしたわけではありません。その事実ははっきりと認識して欲しいのです。娯楽作品にするには派手だったり残虐だったりする演出も仕方ないかもしれませんが、戸田鞠子のモデルとなった細川ガラシャは、信仰を守って自殺せず、家来に自身を殺させているため、戦国時代の悲劇のヒロインであることに変わりはありません。このドラマ内で鞠子は「自害」と言ってから、続いて「介錯」と言っているため、信仰を破った罰として「介錯」を頼んでも、これは日本人の常識から外れます。つまり、その「自害」は「実質上の切腹」になると日本人は考え、その奇妙さに戸惑うのです。難しかったことはわかりますが、「切腹」と同様に「介錯」も正しく表現して欲しかったと思います。
they just want to make some dollars from pleasing there western viewer's.
Western based TV drama is primarily for entertainment rather than historical accuracy. For this reason the drama may not always support the facts. Its interesting that Japanese may feel uncomfortable with such dramas. These dramas are not meant as historical documentaries, although they may appear like that at times. Id like to see more factual historical dramas though. History often has lessons for the future than can be lost in the desire for entertainment.
@@specialandroid1603 様(sama)
It is often the case that historical events that were once accepted as established knowledge turn out to be completely wrong as research and studies are advanced. I am grateful that there are people like you who think wisely about historical dramas based on Japan. It is very difficult for anyone to understand a different culture, but if we do not make the effort, terrible misunderstandings will not go away.
Japanese honor and loyalty back then is almost absolute! You earned our respect our japanese brothers!
Creepy
She's a woman
But japanese were also rapist and murderer s so no real honor
This was the best scene in the series! I was on the edge of my seat the whole time!
He's not her second in the book. Yabu is, and despite being an absolute a-hole he wants to be perfect for her which is cool because the honouring of their traditions transcend their relationships.
I love this version more. Yabu second her is so false when he in fact betray them all. It would just be an act. While this version was the ultimate romantic scene amongst this series John and Marikos special bond.
@@mirikaku5811 this was to make fans support suicide and make it look romantic., her fake seppuku show.
@@mirikaku5811 That makes more sense in the show sure, but the book spends far more time on their Romance and Yabu is more complex too.
I will read the book after the show is over. Will love to know more details of the story.
The book tells the story much more from Blackthorne's perspective (and that of the Portuguese), it also spends a lot more time on the love story
Blackthorn's sigh was hilarious. That man couldn't be happier he didn't have to go through with it.
I honestly want to watch this one because it is very good and the plot of it reminds me of the Movie called "The Last Samurai" and that one will get you crying every time you see it! 😭
I loathed Ishido as much as anyone watching the series, but he was a great villain. Knowing that he had no intention of allowing any of Mariko's party to leave didn't diminish the power of this scene - magnificent.
I love the room temp IQs in the comments explaining what happens in a simple scene as if they think they are the only ones on earth capable of understanding it.
If your nominated second refuses then you must endure the entire ritual of disembowelling yourself.
it'd be amazing if I could actually see what's happening without having to turn the brightness on my phone all the way up.
He's so mumbly, I can't understand what he says after telling her that he'll do it. Sounds like "there's no place I haven't already known, [insert unintelligible gibberish here]"
I agree, I think he says “Hell is no place I haven’t already known, let it from your mind” while trying to spare her from damnation for committing suicide without someone as her second.
@@austin1806 That makes sense and listening again after seeing your comment, I think you're right.
@@austin1806That is indeed what he says, had to put it on 0.5 at first just to understand it 😭
I thought I couldn’t understand because my English was not good enough ( not a native here, of course)
@@patrician3821 I'm a native speaker and I struggled with that line. I don't know why TV and movies think having actors mumble their lines somehow makes it better nowadays.
I'm just here to laugh all the "weebs" in the comment section like "Ackchyually..."
I honestly can’t tell if it’s more white kids or actual Japanese people that are offended 😂
same lmao
The fuck are you even talking about?
That's how you make a strong female character beloved by everyone whose sacrifice moved us to tears. Based upon excellent writing, authenticity and passion. Take notes woke $eta$ds.
a number of things wrong with this. Female samurai do not commit Seppuku they commit Jigai. When commiting Jigai the dagger is used to cut their throat not driver into their heart as Mariko intended. And finally since the jugglular was cut it brought about a very rapid death the act of beheading was not required so Blackthorne wouldn't have had to at as her second.
Without a second, Mariko would have committed suicide, damning her soul to hell. She needed someone else to strike the killing blow.
The son watching Mariko breaks my heart... 🥺
Just glad that she didn‘t go through with it, because having an untrained swordsman as a second would be - let‘s say quite unfortunate to witness.
This is not actually seppuku scene. Seppuku, 切腹, cut the belly, is the manner of samurai. For ladies of samurai family often committed suicide but not cut belly but stab their chest or cut their neck.
Mariko tried to stab her chest.
Seppuku is either way
can anyone explain why yabushi helps the shinobi get in the fortress and then warn the main characters about the incoming shinobi?
he's playing both sides so he always comes out on top
@@keithfilibeck2390he a dead man walking from the start 😂
Because Yabu is always playing both sides.
Mariko had to die in a way that moved lords to rebellion against Ishido. When he stopped seppuku, other way had to orchestrated that blamed him. For Yabu warring other is just an alibi for himself.
becouse he doesnt want to die
What song is in the background? Soo good.
Sounds like "The Pull of Death" from Shogun's soundtrack
I'd just like to point out that Japanese female nobility from that era almost always perform this ritual with a stab into the throat that results in fast death that will not require a second for a mercy beheading. That she chooses a belly slice is very unbecoming for her class but perhaps she wants a slower death to allow for her end to be done by a second to avoid the self deletion mortal sin of her Catholic faith. Also, I would also point out that her thick long hair would almost certainly prevent a clean cut to the neck. Had John had to cut through all that hair with a thin light katana - he would certainly need several strokes. Not a good fast ending.
İs real history or fictional ?
Half real half fictional
Both The character is real and she really dead. But she dead before the anjin come to japan a little while ago
Fiction inspired by history.
Everyone is wrong. Mariko looks at John not out of relief or some deep realization that he now understands.
But out of deep regret and sadness that this man that she loves was the last person she wanted to put through this.
She knows it would cause him great pain. And she regrets this.
But her resolve cannot be diminished and she proceeds.
It's unlikely John would've gotten a clean cut on the first try
It can be both
I think she was just terrified of a botched beheading. In the show, I don't think we've even seen him handle a Katana once before this part
Thx, sayonara
Was John really going to go through with it?
We will never know
Yes because he wouldn't be able to watch her suffer the blood falling everywhere & her screams.
there is no way he had to. because mariko would not have guts to go through it for 16 F years he know what littl p she is,
Yes, both out of his respect and love for her and because he knew what it would mean to take her own life as a Christian. He stepped in to have her back when no one else would and to save her from damnation. Even if he had doubt in that belief, he knew she didn't.
@@varthelm she is fake Christian as she never considered suicide a sin as it is in bible.
Why was he so confident that he could one shot it? Wild ass
That 3:06 OUUUUUFFFFFF could be felt
what is barney thompson doing in japan. he's supposed to be working for the peaky blinders
女性が人前で自決する事は無い。ましてや切腹などあり得ない。
Women didn‘t commit Seppuku, they committed Jigai, stabbing their hearts (as seen here) or their throats instead of disembowelment.
着物を着たまま切腹しないし、襟足を剃らないで介錯することも、女性が人前で執り行うことはないはずだが、このシーンは必要だった。
As I remember not Anjin but Yabbu assists Mariko. That was on the book…imagine how Anjin without knowledge of using sword would make it…ihhh
Yes and the scene is in the red square courtyard
Wrong title. It should read: Mariko almost commits seppuku. In Japanese culture JB would not have been the killer.
Damn right
Wondering why she tied her knees together... any particular reason?
すぐ死ぬわけでは無いので、苦しんだ際に暴れて着物の裾が乱れて、足が出ないようにするためです。
@user-kf2jo7cq3p ahhh, that makes sense. Thank you, for letting me know.
This is not seppuku, seppuku is to stab the belly , not the heart.
For men it was the belly, but for women _Jigai_ could also be the throat or heart and can even be unassisted.
Only samurai men had the seppuku. Women stabed the hearth or fall into the dagger. Jigai was not a common practice.
That’s why this was labeled as suicide and why ishido didn’t won’t it to happen
@@benragnarsson7228 don't forget tongue biting too
its Sempakku
Mariko didn't commit Seppuku because Seppuku is for Men. Momen stabbed their throat with knives instead by theirselves. Actually, I've never seen or read women asked to cut their heads off as same as men, though many women who's heads were cut for punishment.
This drama is based on the original story written by a westerner and there are some different scenes from the real.
Real Bushido
mariko ,, doont die yet we haver to hunt the kaiju's 🤭🤭...
This is completely wrong. Kaishaku is something that is done in response to seppuku. Women do not and cannot commit seppuku. So if she were allowed to commit suicide like in this video, she would die with a dagger to strike her heart. If she didn't die, someone else might have stabbed her to death. Her model, Hosokawa Gracia did not commit suicide, but had her family vassal stab her with his spear and kill her.
You're arguing with historical experts from Japan that were brought in for this show. One of the producers is Toranaga's actor who is ensuring it's as accurate as possible despite being dumbed down for western audiences.
自殺はキリスト教で禁じられているため、家老の小笠原秀清（少斎）がガラシャを介錯し、遺体が残らぬように屋敷に爆薬を仕掛け火を点けて自刃した。辞世の句は「散りぬべき 時知りてこそ 世の中の 花も花なれ 人も人なれ」。
Wikipedia
@@LordKamos777 様(sama)
This is not something to argue. It's a common sense that all Japanese people have, except for people who aren't particularly interested in history. If anyone knows a unique example of a woman being kaishaku when she commits suicide, I would like to know more about it. There must have been many parts of the drama where even Sanada-san had to compromise.
@@佐藤広-q2uexcept she is aiming for her heart. You see it the moment after the camera shifts when Ishido drops the permit. Nor is it valid to expect her to go out the same way as Gracia did as first and foremost - this is historical fiction. Hell Ochiba is supposed to be Chacha, who decidedly isn’t Nobunagas daughter but his sisters.
If you really watched the show you wouldve seen 2:45...
In book it was yabu who was second
I thought women went out with the sword through the throat (jigai?)
What I don't understand is that as a Christian, she knows she shouldn't be committing Seppuku.
Why Kiyama didn't wanna give her a hand?
Ishido probably prevented him from attending.
She didnt die like thia in the book!
Neither in the show
@@blackmantis3130 ishido blows a door and it flattens her!
@@docholliday4546 i know. I watched the episode
Ok these clips aint the best to watch on a phone. On max brightness and i can barely see a thing
That is a cross around her neck is it not?
Yes it is. She converted to christianity. Thats what I found strange in this scene, because its forbidden for christians to commit suicide
@@anthemsofeurope2408 I couldn’t think about anything else during the scene. Great writing, but uncomfortable to watch.
I have enjoyed using Akechi to unify Japan in video games, lol
Ah the tragic culmination 😢
Dude stop posting spoilers before most have seen the episode
Oh no! We whom haven't probably don't even care. Like me for instance. Stop being a karen.
She asks him to wait until she has fallen.
I suspect she wanted to be unconcious before he attempts to behead her. He would have surely made a mess of it.
they already planned this fake suicide drama last night they were screwing.
Yeah, for me that way Mariko carry aronde her little knife and never get to use it is more comical than tragic, it doesn't work for me!
Wrong. ladies did not commit seppuku, it is only for Samurai.
Samurai ladies kill themselves by the knife thrusting throat or heart.
It is difficult for untrained person to cut off human head by sword.
Unsightly and ugly beheading was a shame of the beheader and in this case he also had to kill himself because of this shame. So, Anjin second is impossible.
It happened in the book.
Oh, please do be quiet.
問題ない、歴史上女性も切腹してる
Okay, Weeaboo
She wasnt commiting seppuku. The uploader doesnt know. Look at 2:45. Weeb.
Marpi Point vibes
Why all movies are in the dark, I hate that, I don't look
they run out of budget for better lighting
This is a remake from xogum movie 1980
both are based on the same book
В старом фильме эта сцена лучше.
Hodor'd instead
Samurai women did not commit "seppuku", which means cutting the belly. They would stab themselves in the throat. Not sure if they used "seconds" the way that men did either. Strictly speaking, a second was not necessary if a samurai carried out seppuku properly. However, as it was very painful, and required great commitment and willpower even for a dedicated samurai, it could be difficult to properly complete the act, so the custom of using a second, who would decapitate the person committing seppuku once they had begun the process of slitting open their abdomen became customary. Once the person had started the act, honor was served, and the second could decapitate them to end the pain and ensure the end came quickly. Attempting to cut off Mariko's head from behind here might be problematic. Her hair might create issues, possibly deflecting even a sharp sword before contacting the neck bones. It is also unlikely that Blackthorn would have had the skill and technique to carry out the procedure properly, even if he had been getting a few sword lessons. This is a deviation from the novel that was unnecessary, IMHO.
its a tv show man. give it a break.
Just a question: here, Mariko recounts that her father was a good man who assassinated the boss of Toranaga's dead boss because the said guy was corrupt.
I know the Big Boss her dad kills is based on Oda Nobunaga, the most famous Shogun to have ever lived. Question: though it is commonly believed that Nobunaga was eccentric and morally ambiguous, was he really corrupt?
Nobunaga thoughts actually very advanced. In the perspective of japanese people, maybe he really look like a corrupted person because nobunaga action seem like having many influence of western people
I am Japanese, "Seppku"(切腹） is only for Samurai, I believe and
NOT for women. This is very very odd to us.
女腹切と言うものがありましたよ。
切腹とは武士の誇りを守るものなので基本的に男性の行為ですが、大名や武士の妻が切腹した事例は幾つかあるそうです。
I am fairly sure Japanese woman commited suicide under certain circumstances, the only debate would be the word Seppku. It's not Seppku but it is a suicide.
"Jigai" , kill oneself, was common among samurai-class ladies.
They pierced their throat or heart as Mariko attempted.
Otama or Gracia Hosokawa, model of Mariko did that.
@@DankaiNoAtoshimatsu-ke5zmAgree! ”Jigai " (自害；自殺）might be the right word for this, I guess. Not officially "Seppuku"
Didn’t know Japanese can write English
You know some of us have jobs and don't stay up until 1am to watch this, but you put spoilers in the title of your video. "Don't recommend this channel"
I have a job and I watched it. Maybe learn how to avoid spoilers
@Viktorreznov1942 good for you. How do you avoid spoilers when the first video on top of the screen has a spoiler in the title? Maybe learn to avoid being a dick.
@dan6822 First of all the title isn't entirely accurate, 2nd you can't expect anyone to stop posting spoilers, so if you don't want to see spoilers you have to avoid anything related to the show as soon as you see it, it's actually easy to just not read the title, and the easiest way altogether is to watch it as soon as it drops.
Blackthornの介錯は下手そうだから絶対失敗する。首を落とすのに9回ぐらい刀振りおとすことに😂
痛そうだから私なら絶対頼まない。
W
虎永さまかいｗ
If Season 1 of this work is modeled on the eve of Sekigahara, I would like Season 2 to create ``Winter Camp'' and ``Summer Camp'' based on the ``Battle of Sekigahara'', which was an internal conflict after unification.
After the novel was completed, Game of Thrones quickly developed a script and produced additional seasons.
It would be a shame if Shogun ended after season 1.
The story is about to get interesting.
There will be no second season this is based on the book and there is no second volume
What a let down. I wish that interruption came 5 minutes later.
Nobody would cut off their lovers head if they truly loved them
CAN we say that it’s like Euthanasia ?
She will do that for her culture anyway
And watching your lover die in pain also is not love
And don’t think about convince her stop suicide, the fact she insist to do that prove she put her country culture above everything else
@@vietcuongnguyenle8530 She put her countries dumbass culture above her own child and love for John which is what made her stupid imo
Nope she gets blown up!😢
There's a little bit of Mariko on all of us.
@@DrCruel tbh, I'd like to have a bit of myself on Mariko
@@edzehoo That's what Buntaro said.
@@DrCruel but Buntaro aint got none, cuz his Hatamoto's tappin' all of that ass. White privilege hell yeeahhhh
女性は首では？
yes!
刑罰になかっただけで、自分で選んで選択することはあったらしいよ
oh, please.......
Now, I can see that Mariko has two kids, both teenagers, a boy and a girl. Mariko is not older than 35, I guess. So I ask: How old was she when she had her kids?
Harakiri
Weirdest JAV ive ever seen but i managed to bust one out anyway.
💀😈
Mariko San is about to commit seppuku, but women in medieval Japan didn't pierce their hearts, they actually slit their own throats. So at this point the fiction is inaccurate.
Japanese women don’t do seppuku, thus needed one to kaishyaku.
真田がついてるのに無作法なシーン
What a waste.
This is ridiculous.
Women cannot commit seppuku.
No one can second her.
Ep.8 was so good. But i was disappointed in ep.9.