What Does It Mean to Be a Christian Nationalist?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2024
- Ligon Duncan, Bob Thune, Andy Davis, and Philip Ryken examine Christian nationalism, differentiating it from mere patriotism and exploring its influence on Christian identity and societal engagement. They delve into the historical and biblical perspectives on Christians' roles in society, emphasizing the need to prioritize Christ above all loyalties. They also discuss strategies for Christians to responsibly advocate for their beliefs in a pluralistic society.
See more from the TGC Podcast from The Gospel Coalition: www.thegospelc...
For more resources on politics from The Gospel Coalition: www.thegospelc...
#christian #politics #government #gospel #america #patriotic #politicalnews #election
Why on earth would you have a discussion on what it means to be a Christian nationalist without inviting anyone on who describes themselves as such. Whistling past the graveyard.
Since others won’t or can’t, nor conceive of offering a generous account on this issue, we will. Lord willing, in a few months, many will know this Christian Nationalism is the consistent view of the Christian.
God rest
Prayerfully, in the next few months I in the Lord’s help can make the case why Christian Nationalism is the consistent view of the Christian.
God rest
@@TheChristianNationalist8692because Christian Nationalism is blatant idolatry.
That is because it is a skewed version of Christianity. Anytime you mix Christianity with something else, you will always have a water-down religion that misses the mark of the Great Commission and what the Gospel was about. Christian Nationalism holds the love of the country on the same level as the love of the Gospel. How can I love my neighbors when leaders of this movement demonize brothers and sisters in Christ who only have a different perspective on how the country should be run.
I love my country, but kingdoms rise, and they fall, but the Kingdom of God is forever.
@@Davy904 It's a political ideology how is it a version of Christianity that's not what it is
You guys need to sit down with the Christian men who’d call themselves Christian Nationalist & hash it out. Y’all are speaking past each other at times. There’s a lot of confusion when it comes to this topic. Maybe sitting down with each other can bring some clarity?
They aren't going to be let in the room
Nope, don't do it
I do not think they would allow me on, but prayerfully, perhaps in the next few months after I make the case for Christian Nationalism, each Christian will realized it is our mandate.
God rest
@@PrayerTableYeah. If Christians were consistent, they would know that Christian Nationalism should be our collective aim. I’ll make the case until others are able to see, Lord willing.
God rest
United States is based on religious freedom. You can not control this. Jesus clearly states this is not our home. I am also a Catholic and my beliefs are love thy neighbor and pray for your enemies saving the united states is not going to save you!!
Why didn't you invite someone who actually advocates for Christian Nationalism?
Seriously. Good point
Because if they did their baseless suppositions on this issue would expose them as cowards!
Because it flies in the face of everything our Founding Fathers stood for?
Agreed! As soon as I saw that they didn't have the intellectual integrity to have an actual discussion with a Christian Nationalist I turned it off. Sadly, the Christian Nationalist guys have been asking them to sit down and have a discussion, but they don't seem interested.
Combining love for country with Bible is blasphemy
One thing that we definitely did not find out was what it means to be a Christian Nationalist.
I was hoping for better.
It’s TGC what did you expect?
@@ReformedSooner24 Yep. My bad for sure!
Prayerfully, I hope to make that clear in the series I’m beginning on this issue of Christian Nationalism. Lord willing, many will not be able to deny the force of the arguments.
God rest
@@ReformedSooner24Yeah.
@@joelsaint3185Yep. Hopefully they’ll listen to reason. I’m ready and willing to explain.
God rest
This was actually better than I thought it would be. Kudos to the young guy for pushing back and helping the discussion go beyond “private vs public life” and “Christ’s kingdom vs the world’s kingdom.” They really should have had someone like Steven Wolfe (author of “a case for Christian nationalism) or Doug Wilson or Joel Webbon on though.
Yes he did somewhat. It could have been pushed even further.
God rest
Didn’t Ligon Duncan promote Eric Masons BLM CRT woke church book?
Do you know what woke means?
@@chadmccoy8032 liberal, social justice warrior , gay , crt , Marxism, pro government
@@chadmccoy8032 It means confronting (or pretending to confront) racism and injustice (which are things only white people do), which needs to be dug out from beneath every rock, and pulled out from behind every tree, nook, crack, cranny, comic strip, movie, tv show, song lyric, poem, short story, novel, video game, cooking recipe, clothing choice, parenting style....
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if TGC ever put out a video discussing the dangers of critical race theory?
Or Marxism, lockdowns, vaccines, false teachers who are “reformed” pushing doctrines of demons.
History is history, you know how to read.
The “dangers”? How is education or knowledge of America’s history of systemic racism dangerous?
The Incompatibility of Critical Theory and Christianity
From 2019 I believe.
@@dadduorplol. That’s not what CRT is about. We’ve had less slavery than most every other nation on the planet.
Having this discussion without Doug is disappointing, imo. And I'm not his biggest fan either
Maybe Duncan is concerned with making Wilson curl in defeat into the fetal position! (An indirect claim Duncan recently made.) Anyone even remotely aware of Wilson thinks this claim by Duncan was weird and ridiculous. Makes me think he is woefully ignorant of what he opposes.
@@nazhospesYes he is.
Thank God for the new generation of Christian reformers that don't accept the defeatist stance these men are taking on this issue! Christian Nationalism is simply that God has called the nations to serve his purpose and Christians should be the first to define and defend this idea without fear of persecution!
Philippians 3:
7But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; 16however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.
17Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us. 18For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, 19whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things. 20For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
Amen. More than well written.
God rest
Have you studied Revelation 13? What can you share of it?
You need to invite our brothers from Moscow and get their take.
I'm seeing so many of these critics lately and wonder if they've ever actually listened to the teachers from Moscow. It seems close to slanderous at times. So tragic they're doing this.
@@katherinewilliams4500Truly inconsistent. We are to yearn like Paul, “I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.”
Acts 26:29
God rest
I am Christian. That said, two things: The two-word term, "Christian Nationalism" is antinomic, in that they cannot exist together. God gave us over to free choice. Moses 3:17 tells us that God has told us through His prophets that we are free to choose between good and evil. We may choose liberty and eternal life by following Jesus Christ. We are also free to choose captivity and death by following Satan. This is something God set before man beginning with Adam and Eve and the forbidden fruit. This does not negate any other verse in the Bible, but rather, it is an underlying principle. 2) It is unconstitutional in the United States, by virtue of the 1st amendment. It would require a repeal of Freedom of Religion for Congress to declare any religion a "national religion". Even if you could legislate it, you cannot enforce it in people's thoughts and beliefs. We must be a nation of Christians, not attempt to force a Christian nation in the US, even if the majority are Christians, which personally I would love to see, but of their own free choice.
You hold the Constitution in higher regard than Christian values. You think Christianity in America is okay, just as long as it conforms to the more important Constitution.
@@christopherlees1134 Christopher, that is an assumption on your part, and a wrong one. I am simply separating the two, as the Constitution is not a Christian document. It is not written with Christianity or any religion in mind. To use it, to try to push an agenda on all citizens is not only illegal, but evil. Others who are not Christian have equal rights in America. Do your homework. As to assumptions, hear God's word. "He that answers a matter before he understands it, it is folly and shame unto him." (Proverbs 18:13) I pray for you, in all honesty and without malice. It is beliefs, like the one you professed, that threaten democracy for everyone.
@@paulbobier7857 Every law is pushing an agenda on the people, but Christian laws push a righteous and just agenda. And your comment proves the way I described your point of view is not an assumption.
@@christopherlees1134 Christopher, America is for everyone, not just people who have the same viewpoint as you. If you feel yours is "above" others, or does not include an equality and respect of people of all walks and beliefs, you are a complete bigot and that is not ""Christianity", nor are you being a good representative of Jesus. Goodbye. If you contact me again, I will report you.
Agreed but catechesis is affecting to the formation of new generations. What/Who you are taught well remains.
God rest
Two things, first why not include someone on the panel who is sympathetic to or even part of Christian nationalism? I don't consider myself one, but I do want to hear more than 1 perspective. Second, I can see why what we call "the left" will inevitably win. While you are sitting around talking about how things are "difficult" and wondering how far we should take things and what we should do, the left - whatever that means - believes there is nothing too far, no amount of effort that is too great, no compromise that can be made. No offense, but you may as well roll over now and show your belly, because if you guys are the opposition then they will win. It's just a matter of time. A more fruitful discussion would just be what parts of the faith we are willing to compromise to survive in a society completely run by radicals, because that decision is the only thing you're going to have any say over.
Maybe because the bible isn't sympathetic to Christian Nationalism...
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked person from among YOU" - 1 Corinthians 5: 12+13
@notavailable4891. Yeah, I took this discussion as a colossal waste of time. They know only one version…the most extreme. The CN’s I’m aware of would never accept this silly definition.
On the other hand, the leftists who use “Christian Nationalism” as a bogeyman label would identify everyone at the table here as a CN…and would acknowledge very little sunlight between patriotism and CN!
@@hhhieronymusbotch I don't know. I'm not sure I know what christian nationalism even is. I suppose if TGC wants to present this issue this way that's their prerogative, I was hoping to see a more balanced discussion but I am not their target audience.
@@notavailable4891 feel free to find me any form or interpretation of Christian nationalism that doesn't involve judging people outside our faith.
If you vote then i guess you're a "christian nationalist"@hhhieronymusbotch3505
Just read your Bible. None of this is confusing when you know what it says.
It’s says “this world is not our home”
America was never Christian, it’s all Freemasons, just like most if not all the people that work in TGC, and run the churches with their Rockefeller college degrees. It’s all Babylon. The persecution coming to America is to separate the sheep and the goats; people can see the great falling away and know that the abusive pastors that purposely ruin families with unbiblical advice, have ignored abuse instead of dealing with the men (or sometimes the women, but it’s mostly the men who “crept in through weak women that are in sin and lusts) youth pastors that groom all these kids and hurt them more than anything, promote Roman sports and Babylon entertainment… were never really believers and it will cause a real conversion in real lost sheep. We are in the middle of the great falling away with the deconstruction movement, and the fake believers pretending to expose it because Satan is controlling the churches. Patriotic Christians are fakes, some just really ignorant but most of them know and want American prosperity. Soldiers that have awards are Freemasons along with the police and all of it. The symbolism and one eye, hidden hand, wearing either scarlet and purple or magenta… black and white for duality etc… it’s all over these teachers pages. If you are patriotic in America, you are worshiping Satan, even if you don’t know it yet, repent before you bow without even realizing it, either. Know your Bible, and unfortunately know your enemy and get out of Babylon (the buildings in America that call themselves churches and only hire men with their approved degrees… which is also unbiblical. The church is scattered, people need to wake up and realize they are doing exactly what the Israelites were doing with their golden calves (modern day is golden globes, Grammys, sports trophies, medals of honor, honor roll etc. all satans alternatives to the crown of life) The red heifer is significant, also… but people just sitting there blind arguing politics and theology when it’s all done divisive on purpose.
Amen
Amen
When you Google this is what you get. Nationalism: identification with one's own nation and support for its own interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.
Nationalism does not carry the idea of nation worship, and the strongest proponents of it only laugh at that idea because it's so obviously not what they are advocating for.
These men are unwilling to drop the names of the men they are talking about because if they did, people would go listen to them and find out the men here are building up a straw man argument.
Brothers, if you believe your fellow brothers in Christ are teaching nation worship it is your obligation to name the names of the men you're referring to and call them to repentance. Otherwise, you're shooting arrows at nothing. In fact, this is slander because we know who you're referring to.
Amen. This is a serious sin before the Lord. If they cannot see it now I hope they repent before the Lord have them see.
God rest
Amen. In Luke 12:45 the master returns to punish the servants that he finds beating his fellow servants. There is a place for bringing true allegations of wrong in the Body, but they must be supported by witnesses and effort must be made for reconciliation and to fairly represent the accused. The accuser of the brothers is Satan. Very serious business to join in his work.
The history of nationalism is closely connected to fascism for a reason. Instilling loyalty and servitude to one’s country was used as a control tactic by the likes of Hilter and Mussolini.
@@kathmandoozlethose are clear examples of government wrongdoing in the name of religion. That does not mean that Christians influencing government is necessarily the same thing. The slave trade was ended by a Christian minority who stood up and said "our nation isn't doing this anymore" and they started an abolition movement that spread to the government and made the slave trade illegal in all states, even though there were still many many people in those states who did not believe as they did. But because they took that stand and changed those laws, the culture around slavery began to shift, and eventually it became unacceptable to everyone. Is that not the exact same thing as what your side claims Christian Nationalism is? Is it any different from Christians today working to outlaw abortion, the literal slaughter of millions of human beings?
@@kathmandoozle If I said that I'm all in on the idea of a Democratic Republic, you're not going to respond by saying that a Republic is a bad thing, just look at the People's Republic of China. That would be silly, because the term Republic is modified by the word Democratic. In the same way that a Democratic Republic is not the same thing as a straight Republic, Christian Nationalism is not the same thing as straight Nationalism. You're arguing in the wrong direction, and I happen to agree with you.
Loyal followers of Christ are worried about everyone in the world, not just the nation they live in. Worrying solely about your nation and forgetting about all the other nations in the world is the definition of selfishness and an example of excessive national pride. We are one of the richest nations in the world and we should do a lot more for disadvantaged people globally, not just being hyper focused on US prosperity. Pride, greed, and vanity are sins that will take a while to wash off in the US. God worries about the entirety of creation, not a particular area or group of people. This was misinterpreted previously and it caused all sorts of pride, arrogance, and defiance issues.
No contradiction. Remember, the nation we live is a definable and big place to worry over, and ought not to stop because of the evils in other arenas. The Christian Nationalist would agree, but say the best for al nations is submit themselves unto Christ, and therefore, Christian Nationalism is still viable in your system. We worry for the world as well sibling. Please cease presupposing for us where our concern ends.
God rest
Sorry to say but this was video was so "boomer con" talking about how we need to govern good but non controversial. You can see the young guy try to chime in and offer a different view at times because he knows what time it is but most of this talk was about 50 years outdated when everyone in America agreed with what good even was. Nowadays, you have people saying it's health care to castrate your child. We don't even agree on the basics of what is good. I'm sorry but this was a cowardly take on the topic of Christian Nationalism. Again, very boomery but not at all helpful or relevant for today. Please do better
All of the boomers in the conversation would have been British loyalists during the American Revolution....
I don't think the passages from Scripture were at all out dated. The older guys do indeed have more history. Here in Europe they view all "Evangelicals" from the US and probably here, as radical dummies who no nothing of science or of their present culture. So, what do you mean by cowardly on this topic? Are all "patriots" Christian Nationalists? I don't live in American culture although I was raised there. And why isn't this discussion helpful? How would you approach it?
Well said, from this Generation X guy from Massachusetts. Cowardly is the correct word and I'm glad you used it. Where is the masculinity in this discussion? They are talking about how nationalism is a word that sounds bad, scary, and they "feel" like its a bad thing. Very unmanly, like the typical American Christian church. It's all catering to women, their emotions, their handwringing and pearl-clutching. Christian Nationalism is not confusing. We believe The LORD wants nations to have laws that are righteous and just. Christianity is righteous and just. Therefore, America's laws should be based on Christianity. America should have Christian leaders who enact policies informed by a Christian worldview, and this should gradually shape the attitudes and beliefs of the population - just as antiChristian secularism has over the last few decades.
You have my attention. Continue.
God rest
@@christopherlees1134Listen up, This Country wasn't Founded as a Christian Nation, probably because many of the Founding Fathers were Deists. Even the ones who weren't Deists like Washington, didn't want the Church anywhere near the government. Everything you are for, the Founders we're against, so you're not much of an American in my eyes. Christians have taken advantage of the rest of this Country since the ink on the Constitution was dry. The pledge of allegiance was highjacked and bastardized by the right as well as our currency. Many of those faces you see on American currency would be appalled to see their likeness next to religious dogma. Here's a direct quote from Washington, concerning Christian laws.
The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.
George Washington
I love that the moderator skipped over all the comments saying they should being in an actual Christian Nationalist to have a more fruitful conversation, and instead liked all the comments gassing up TGC.😂
Interesting
In the effort to define Christian Nationalism, virtually nothing was drawn from the writings of CN proponents. So how can they argue against something of which they only surmise at it's meaning? Do these guys read anything except what echoes their own thoughts?
It is hard to know. Fact is, they were reading the comments and gave not even an iota of a reply to those who’ve challenged them on this very point. I know they must be busy but the lack of rigor testifies to some overt bias and unwillingness to grapple with those who propose our view.
God rest
This is a very unhelpful discussion. Why was there no interaction with what those who consider themselves to be Christion nationalist believe? If you don't want to platform them, then at least name names and give some quotes.
There is no depth here. Any discussion such as this should certainly deal more with the realities who what Christians are facing right now. I wouldn't think that anyone from any side would benefit much from this. The young man was asking some good questions. He didn't receive any good answers. This was just kind of sad.
Exactly right. It is a shame, but too often discussion is skin deep on issues so significant.
God rest
WHERE"S DOUG?!?!?!
No joke
@@MTNMT265 total joke
rushdoony and Christian Reconstructionism (Wikipedia). Christian Nationalism is NEVER mentioned in Scripture. Theocracy (example: the state of Iran).
Hey guys, it’s so easy to talk with those you agree with. Get Doug Wilson on for a chat. Seriously.
Nah.
@@Speakingintothevoid700Interesting.
@@Speakingintothevoid700People who are unwilling to actually engage with those they disagree with forfeit the right to claim they stand on truth.
Moscow style = engage direct arguments and people who oppose your position by inviting them openly on the show.
TGC style = indirectly and passive aggressively misrepresent the opposition and avoid open discourse from those outside your camp.
I appreciate you guys taking a stab at this, but the more you pretend the other side doesn’t have an argument worth engaging, the more influence you’ll lose. Your passive aggressive misrepresentation is not effective, brothers. Please! 🙏🏼 Engage openly with your brothers on this.
Agreed.
What is a Christian's responsibility when living amongst non-Christians? How about preach (not legislate) the Gospel?
How is it possible to legislate the gospel? You think that would be a bad idea, right? Explain what it even means to legislate the gospel.
@@christopherlees1134
Rather than saying "legislate the Gospel", I should have said "legislate 'Judeo-Christian moral principles'". The Gospel is the work of the Holy Spirit, not that of a political system. Sorry for the poor choice of words.
The thrust behind my question is this:
- should a Christian aspire for a non-Christian to become a Christian by hearing the Gospel and accepting it?
- or should a Christian aspire for a non-Christian to simply live by (willingly or unwillingly) 'Judeo-Christian moral principles' without ever accepting, let alone hearing, the Gospel?
@@justingorman1068 First of all, there is no such thing as Judeo-Christian. Look up the interesting origin of the phrase, which is rather recent. Jews reject Jesus Christ so Judeo-Christian is an oxymoron. Jewish culture is not at all like Christian culture. Now to your main point: I say it's not "or" but "both." As people, we should preach the gospel. As a state, we should have righteous and just laws, and those are Christian laws.
@@christopherlees1134
RE the phrase 'Judeo-Christian':
I do not use that phrase myself as I do not find it to be Biblical. In fact, that's why I juxtaposed it against the Gospel which, obviously, is Biblical. That's also why I put the phrase in single quotes. People in the "political sphere" seem to use it, so I opted for it.
RE not "or" but "both":
What are "Christian laws"? Are they distinct from the Gospel?
- If yes, then what's wrong with the Gospel? Is it inadequate?
- If no, then is the Gospel being legislated?
@@justingorman1068 I'm glad we agree on the oxymoron Judeo-Christian. Regarding Christian laws and what they are: They are laws informed by Christian values. They are distinct from the gospel in that the gospel is specific to your salvation, whereas Christian values pertain to how we ought to live.
Without the moorings of Christian values, we end up with drag queen story hour, abortion on demand, sodomy parades and After School Satan Club.
This was a very interesting conversation. It definitely gave me some things to ponder. Thank you for the reminder of the importance of local government and the impacts that can be made by believers in every form of government.
We by the strength of God should permeate the entire realm of politics for the Christ.
God rest
T y for modeling a rigorous yet civil debate on this.
l LLP ppl 00ll LM lmk😮
There was nothing rigorous about it. They did not deal with any of the arguments presented by Doug Wilson, Stephen Wolfe, or any of the other folks that have pointed out that the concept of pluralism has and will always fail and lead to open rebellion against God.
@@spartakos3178. Doug Wilson is a national treasure, but I’m not sure he’s correct, here. Classical Liberalism is a good and fairly stable system that has endured for a couple hundred years, now. We probably do need a vaguely Judeo-Christian consensus to avoid the problems we’re going through of late. Yes, secularism is a religion, and it’s a religion that corrodes. We cannot base our politics on its dogmatic fanaticism. But “Christ or Chaos”? It’s probably not quite that dire.
@hanssvineklev648 We are murdering babies and mutilating children.
Those children who are not being murdered or mutilated are killing themselves at record rates.
Never before has a society been so rich, lived in such luxury, but been so depressed and self medicated, not only on antidepressants but hard narcotics.
Chaos is a gentle description for our idolotrous and rebellious society. Demonic is more apt.
@@hanssvineklev648I like what you said from an agree to disagree standpoint, we need more of that to Ultimately be critical in the right things
Thank you for pointing us towards Titus. To help us have a constructive engagement. . .yet we have events transpiring in this country that seem to be detracting from nation rebuilding and loving our neighbors whom we are welcoming to this country as new comers. We have expectations of transnationals to become contributing members of our nation and not just using it.
If no project of building, they’ll be nothing for these movers of other countries to come to, whether illegals, or legal aliens.
God rest
You had me up until the point when the one dude ignorantly asked who is actually advocating for Christian nationalism. The fact that he asked that means he's oblivious to what's going on. Heck, look no further than Trump himself to we how wide spread it is.
This was a very fruitful conversation. Christian nationalists and theonomits/CR all have a facade of ready made answers. However when you press them on specifics there whole system unravels. They really are just as mystified by how civic policy works as everyone else they just tend to be more boorish in demeanor. 😂
Interesting.
What is “Christian Nationalism”? To be Christian and of the belief that the interests of one’s own country come before that of international interests.
It’s a worldly label contrived out of hatred for Christianity and its ideals. Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” If you’re a member of God’s kingdom… how can you be a member of a worldly political group? You can’t. You’re labeled, but it’s just a label to an imaginary group.
It’s a made up term.. a label. There’s no such thing as a “Christian Nationalist”. There are Christians who live their convictions… and they’re hated and labeled for doing so.
Great talk, Thankyou. Daniel is a great book for insights for the times! Sometimes I can't tell what judgement to make. Sometimes David flee from his enemies and lied about things. Then we are told never to lie. Also we're told to obey government but Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego didn't bow down to the statue. I think we should definitely read the word for these answers and ask the Holy Spirit. And instead of being afraid, trust God that way we can stand in confidence of our judgement without being doubtful or uncertain.
Every time our disobedience to the world is in service to Christ the Lord God is our rest. We are to obey men, but no further when their demands cancels God’s own want and words.
God rest
This is like vegans meeting to define what it means to be a cattle farmer.
😊
These men must fear debate with the pastors in Moscow. I think Doug Wilson has invited but none accepts. That tells me everything.
Doud don't believe in faith alone so no debate needed . He needs to sort that out first
@@JamesStewartarmwrestlingLow-hanging fruit at best. Doug could be completely wrong in one arena and absolutely right in the other. The ones who evade the depth of consistent discussion are usually those who have no support for their view. Sibling, think better on these things. Better for the Church.
God rest
Great video! Really nice opening shot. Great job on always bettering your productions!
Production quality, yes, amen!
God rest
I love this format of four people conversing
I have to say... at this point (two months later) it's pathetic that there hasn't been a legitimate response to the cascade of issues people have taken up with TGC's discussion on this topic. You've proactively created your own echo chamber.
Yes. It is a shame.
God rest
I should've read through the helpful comments first. This 'discussion' is more like four guys talking to four mirrors. *DISAPPOINTING*
Have Stephen Wolfe, or Doug Wilson and I'll take your conversation seriously. For now you seem to be trying to fill a word with a definition and you're late to the game... and misrepresenting it on so many levels.
This is about Euro-American settler classes. What about indigenous people that want to conserve their heritage? Are they some kind of nationalists? Why do they not enter into these kind of discussions? All of these discussions that are almost always self-centric. This means that only certain types of Americans are worthy of being considered to be American.
The "Christian nationalists" seem to care only about themselves and that they should be the only recipients of loyalty and patriotism. People should not demand shows of loyalty and deference that they are not willing to return.
I am reminded of Luke 6:31, “And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.”
As ye would that men convert to your religion, or non religion, do ye also to their religion or non religion.
All religions have been used to excuse and justify all kinds of mischief and oppression and cruelties. They have justified murder and torture and slavery and theft and lies. Religions, frequently, will let people get away with anything.
We all pick and choose and reject the parts of religion that we know about and like and dislike.
DEI? You completely lost me here with, what seems to me, your hypocrisy over this issue. The insertion of Europeans, with the use of violence, into America that replaced the indigenous populations, was the first DEI action in America. It appears that DEI is right or wrong depending on who profits from it.
Thank you TGC!
Comments don’t disappoint. Hope in humanity restored 👍
“What is Christian Nationalism”
Proceeds to define Christian nationalism as “to me it means….”
Uhh how about you get a Christian Nationalist to define it for you and go from there?
I don’t think they’ll allow me to come on. Too bad, but ditto.
God rest
Does anyone here believe in postmillennialism? I don't, but that could be a theological perspective more sympathetic to Christian nationalism that is not represented.
Right. You see the lack of “theological diversity” in this panel when the phrase “we win by losing” or “the kingdom of God advances when Christians did.” Those are not statements many Christians would have agreed with historically.
@@tropicalpines4585Do tell?
God rest
It is favorable to, but can cancel our clear Scripture to the contrary, or that which would include other eschatological visions.
God rest
My pastor spoke before out congregation a couple weeks ago and said, "They are now calling us Christian Nationalist". I told my husband that no they are not calling us ALL christian nationalists and that there is a HUGE difference in being a patriotic christian and being a christian nationalist. I am a veteran...wrote a blank check for this nation twice. Collect the veterans disability and carry a DD214 to prove it. But I am NOT a christian nationalist. At one, very brief time, I would have fallen under this category because I didn't know what I was following. Something didn't set right with me. Instead of ignoring it, I spent a few years being a Berean and questioning why I was unsettled. Only recently did the title, "Christian Nationalist" came to my awareness and I realized, it encompassed everything I was not settled about....an idolatry I was seeing. It disturbs me that my own pastor doesn't know the difference and is even stirring up possible anger in our congregation by spreading an "us vs them" attitude when he doesn't even know. I have brought up my concerns to him for the last couple of years privately and he even agreed with my concerns. But I never linked it with this label. So I know he doesn't agree with the principles of Christian nationalism but doesn't realize it falls under that title. I am wrestling with talking to him about this privately. He knows I am deeply concerned because I see friends and family in my very church being led astray with this movement.
You should check out "Why Do The Nations Rage? The Demonic Origins of Christian Nationalism" by David A. Ritchie. A conservative pastor living in one of the most conservative areas of Texas who does a great job distinguishing the difference between Christian Patriotism and Christian Nationalism, and how the latter has a lot of overlap with idolatry in the Old Testament and the "principalities and powers" of the New Testament.
Pastors need to be educated about this stuff. The Christian Nationalism is tame. Look up seven mountain mandate. They have plans.
@chadmccoy8032 Oh I have become well aware of that agenda. Thank you for suggesting I look into it, though. I believe a lot of Christian Nationalist follow the 7 mountain mandate also. Some likely don't even realize they are following it. It's so casually talked about in those churches and rarely explained that some might not even realize their church preaches that stuff in part or whole.
I prayed for confirmation on whether I should talk to my pastor about my concerns. The day before, I was speaking to my husband about how the Jewish nation didn't recognize Christ as the messiah because they were looking for a political leader. Well, next Sunday, my pastor spoke about that same thing. I took that as confirmation to speak to my pastor. I told him all my concerns, and we discussed the difference between Christian Nationalist and a patriot Christian. He is aware of this, and he is also concerned. This puts my heart at ease about our church.
I think your worries are overwhelmingly valid for those who are idolatrous for the nation. But every Christian, is if their consistent, a Christian Nationalist. I can prove by a mere Christian: are you to yearn for the salvation of a few in a America, or the entire nation? To ask the question is to answer it. Be serious. The Christian ought vie for the salvation of an entire people and pray for the same. If so, the Christian, if consistent, wants a Christian Nation.
God rest
My takeaway is that this panel defined Christian Nationalism as the idol of putting country before God. (I appreciate this being done right out of the gate). This makes detection impossible or highly unlikely, since idolatry is a sin of the heart--not a condition easily discerned by others. Ligon Duncan admits at 6:30 that the CN's are without power or influence, which begs the question: Is the threat real? If not, why is every T̶i̶m̶ ̶A̶l̶b̶e̶r̶t̶a̶ Tom, Dick, and Harry in$i$ting they're everywhere, and coming soon to a church near you?
Pastor Davis, your friend who has his eye on joining Scotus will never in a million years achieve that goal under Democratic rule. He will need to vote for and pray Trump wins to ever have a snowball's chance, if that's where he wants to serve God and country.
Good discussion, although I agree with the comment below that Pastor Thune, as the youngest, likely has a better understanding of current conditions than the others--good and godly men for sure, but slightly naive, I suspect.
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked person from among YOU" - 1 Corinthians 5: 12+13
@@hhhieronymusbotch
The context of that verse is Paul rebuking the church of Corinth for tolerating sexual immorality within the church, so that verse is not meant to imply that Christians should have nothing to say about the culture around them.
Proverbs 14:34
“Righteousness exalts a nation,but sin is a reproach to any people.”
If Romans 13 teaches that government is instituted by God as His “Deacon” (servant) to reward good and punish evil, what do Christians do in a constitutional republic when their government is rewarding evil and punishing good? Especially when the founders of that nation acknowledges that human rights come from God?
Pretty easy to debate against something that your opponent would debate against also! Until they can state the CN position in such a way that Wilson, Wolfe, et al would agree is accurate, they are debating with a pretend opponent. Though, like a little boy pretending to be invincible against scads of enemies, it is a way to always come out the winner!
@@nazhospesYes. There is validity in what is written.
God rest
"How are you going to encourage your people to engage politically? How do you want people that you are called to shepherd and encourage and edify - what do you want to do to help cultivate a good and right and wise and biblical political engagement?"
That's not the right question to ask since it presumes that engaging in the political sphere is always possible - or always a necessary part of growing the kingdom. Instead pastors should talk to people about the nature of God's upside down kingdom and leave their people to consult God about the best way to do grow that kingdom.
Jesus NEVER sought to increase his influence by engaging with the religious leaders of the time - or by seeking political influence.
Actually not exactly. Jesus sought anyone who would submit in positions of power. More so after His ascension. But also within the earthly ministry He held. Think of the centurion. Think of Joseph of Arametha. Or after the Ethiopian baptized. We could go on, but Christ wants all, and therefore desires nations who are all submissive to the Father.
God rest
@@TheChristianNationalist8692 I could have expressed myself better. Jesus definitely engaged at various points with religious leaders and politicians - but for the sake of their souls. He didn't 'negotiate' with them - or compete with them - or seek to defeat them - in order to bring about change.
The plan of God is for a single holy nation within the nations - the church:
1 Peter 2:9 ESV
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
The Christian nationalist believes that Jesus is the truth - and the life - what he doesn't accept is that Jesus is THE WAY. Jesus being the way is about more than people only being able to be forgiven through him. It's also about the fact that the only way in which we can redeem others is by living the cross ourselves - sacrificing to establish justice through service - instead of seeking to dominate culture - so that mercy might be offered within an environment of justice.
If you are born again you are an alien and stranger in this world. Your citizenship/politics is in heaven. Trust God to work His will in all of this mess. Sometimes God chooses the basest of men to rule in order to fulfill His purposes. Don't stand in His way. Stop trying to change a country that's not yours. You are to be a foreign ambassador here, representing your country, heaven. The old self (the flesh) says "my country America". The new self (the spirit) says "my country heaven". Live like an Abraham, not like a Lot.
So i am saying defined how i just laid it out, Christian Nationalism kind of sounds normal and good - no?
Amen❤😊. Gives me warmth inside. Let us pray it is achieved in us in our generation.
God rest
We need black swan event. A precious awakening of many like these in this discussion.
God rest
Bob is asking good questions. I'm not hearing clear answers. Is the biblical definition of male and female a may or a must? That was not made clear at all. If anything, sounds like Pastor Duncan is saying Christian magistrates MAY encourage biblical definitions of male amd female, but its not a must issue. I hope I am wrong.
And "Christians" love God and His word and know that " blessed is the nation whose god is the Lord". Christians wanr to honor God individually, with their family, with their church and their nation. Let's start there. It' s common ground all Christians share. And it's God's idea and very good. How far we all want to take it is another story but let's be united wherever there is common ground.
Absolutely sibling.
God rest
A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.”
-Charles Spurgeon
I think the man with a dark coat and glasses sounds a lot lot a Christian nationalist preacher.
Close. He isn’t sure how far he ought to go with concept, but if we can triumph spiritually over a nation in the will of God, by definition, this is Christian & Nationalism.
God rest
Sound cuts out just after 27 minutes
I Love Jesus Christ and America.
As you ought. You love America to be fully saved in the Lord the Beloved I hope. He is the Only hope of anyone of us.
God rest
Im a Christian but not a nationalist Jesus is my Savior
Defining a movement and the people in it without actually inviting someone from that movement is no different than Leftists defining what it means to be Christian according to their own ideals.
Yes. Sadly, the same end, though I’m not sure they meant to use as a tactic like leftist.
The Lord knows.
God rest
There is no movement, this wasn't Founded as a Christian Nation and it will never be one.
12:30 The Chinese nationalism backed by the PRC state is quite literally a religion in itself, a worshipping of the origins and lineage of the Chinese people in a way for which there is no equivalent in the US. I think any Christianity subjugated to that is inevitably going to be syncretistic and deeply compromised. It's one thing to say you will follow the law and be good citizens in so far as your faith allows; it would be another though to adopt any part of the state-sponsored ethnocentric religious anthropology.
Who are some of the names that advocates christian nationalism?
Here I am.
God rest
In the Engish-speaking churches, the Puritan (hot Protestant) extremes generated a strong reaction against them. Also, get out of Reform thinking for a bit and look at Christian leaders like the Wesleys.
Agreed. Wesley was/is wiser than the reformed even tried to realize.
God rest
Bob, you might not want to waste your time trying to get answers out of these guys in the future. They clearly don't want to do give anybody advice other than "it depends." This is hardly a roundtable discussion. More of a "who can come up with the best rhetorical question" circle.
I concur with your estimate.
God rest
God's word commands that those in office in any government carry out justice with whatever amount of authority God has given them, regardless of whether it is Just by the standards of the government they serve under (Romans 13). If a sheriff is aware of a school teacher who is murdering the children does not use his authority to stop it, God holds him accountable for the bloodshed alongside her. During World War 2, God's judgement hung heavy over the many magistrates, judges, and officers who He had tasked with protecting human life, who chose to instead partner with the shedding of the blood of millions of people. The temporal laws and orders of the government around them did not absolve them from God's judgement for failing to carry out justice according to His divine standard that He had appointed their positions for. In America each citizen has a measure of authority in the form of a vote, and many Christians hold offices of authority beyond that. Do you think that the blood of over 70 million murdered preborn children does not scream out to God for vengance? Does God by His own above standards, not REQUIRE that blood at the hands of each and every person in authority who does not work to end the murder, to the measure of the authority given them? If that makes me a Christian Nationalist than I'll wear that title with honor, but I'm warning you with the fear and love of God not to accuse your brothers who bear that name, especially if, as TGC and many supposed 'ministries' today do, you will not even give them a place to be heard or even represent their views truthfully. Does God's courtroom allow an accusation to go forth without a chance for the defendant to make his case?
Liberals discussing Christian Nationalism... what else did I expect.
Ad hom.
Not exactly liberals, but definitely lack aggression for consistency and depth and rigor, so therefore they take on the tropes of the opposition.
God rest
Christian Nationlisim is another Prosperity message.
CN is using god and christ as a means, instead of being the Goal. ✨🌱
No. Christ is the means and the goal to gather as many as can be gathered unto salvation. Be careful how you mock your brother. It will sting.
God rest
In God we trust! The US constitution and our declaration of independence edifies the existence of and the importance of our belief in Almighty God! As a NATION it is necessary to have a moral compass. there is nothing wrong with U.S.A nationism/ptriotism as long as we hold the teachings of Christ "first". Christ is all about one nation under God, Christ is all about holding these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. You can not serve 2 masters, for you will love one and hate the other. So the U.S.A under the rule of Christ is true nationalism. With the hope and undertsanding that his kingdom is eternal and one day will reign on this planet when he returns. King of Kings and Lord of Lords! So be it!
Awesome.
God rest
You really need to go back to school kid! First off, "In God We Trust" is only in the pledge of allegiance because a bunch of Republicans got scared that the Soviets had nukes! You should be embarrassed that your kind highjacked the pledge, like thieves in the night.
Many of this Countries Founding Fathers were Deists, who came to this Country to escape the Church and it's dogma. Let me share with you in their own words how they felt.
The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.
George Washington
The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.
James Madison
This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.
John Adams
Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state'... is absolutely essential in a free society.
Thomas Jefferson
The way to see by Faith is to shut the Eye of Reason.
Benjamin Franklin
The Bible: a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalise mankind.
Thomas Paine
The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature. . . . [In] the formation of the American governments . . . it will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of heaven. . . . These governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.
John Adams
No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever.
Thomas Jefferson
Yeah pretty sure these guys have never actually discussed CN with a CNist.
I’m sure of the same.
God rest
i think duncan and kdy should go speak with the moscow people somewhere. the moscow people are all happy to receive u
That would be helpful for all.
God rest
Project 2025???????
These men are missing the whole point. This is all about what God tells us . One example Book of Daniel chapter 3 and thru out history and why real Christian’s were murdered for the fact they would not worship but one God , the true and living God. I would be curious if these men’s church shut down during the government Covid scared and control. Also which one or all of these men would proclaim Christ and be executed?
This was an extremely poor set of arguments against Christian Nationalism. The first one is: "Nationalism...it sounds like a scary word. It feels like a scary word. It seems like a bad word to me" - and the rest of the discussion isn't much better. It seems these pastors hold ideals of democracy and modern antiChristian values like "inclusivity" and "tolerance" above the ideals of genuine Christianity. Look, Christian Nationalism is simple: The LORD wants nations to have laws that are righteous and just. Christianity is righteous and just. Therefore, America's laws should be based on Christianity. America should have Christian leaders who enact policies informed by a Christian worldview, and this should gradually shape the attitudes and beliefs of the population - just as antiChristian secularism has over the last few decades.
What are Christian principles?
Trump fully embraces Christian nationalism and it angers me
Everything is "challenging" for these guys.
Interesting
Oh yeah these boomers for sure should keep leading the conservative movement we will win with these guys 👍
When the Jews return to Zion
And a comet fills The sky
Beware, his birth is coming
And for it man must die
He rises from a sea of confusion
Drawing armies on either shore
Turning man against his brother
Until man is no more
Is it too obvious to point out that God has arranged the world so that his character will prevail? And therefore the question isn't how to cause others to do what we want them to do - it's only a question of asking God how we should participate in his ultimate victory plan?
Amen & Absolute.
God rest
A swing and a miss from TGC, whodathunkit it, they're normally so spot on...
❤😊😅
Someone said these guys are speaking of a radical Christian nationalism. They aren’t.
Just a ruse for Republican entrepreneurism. Need for Biblical gospel discernment to these Calvinist charlatains. In the past their grandfathers were probably freemasons.
Ligon Duncan strikes me as someone who is just comfortable in the current state of things. He isn't for any movement that will have an effect on his power and current influence.
Perhaps, but be careful. It might simply be he is naive or hasn’t looked enough consistently at the Lordship of Jesus over all. This can happen.
God rest
You asked, "What does a healthy run city look like?". It's one that's laws and government are submitted to the Lord. It's not a question that has neutral answers. The conscience of the government is the god (preferably THE God) it submits to.
Yes, it is best and preferable for it to be true Lord. Absolute agreement. Without which, every nation sooner or later will be collapsed under Holy Hatred of the Most High.
God rest
America was Founded by Deists like Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Franklin, etc.
Right off the bat you can see this will be a group of liberals
'Blind leading the blind' (dangerous, bigoted)
Christianity! God! Many believe there is a god, however tell me something about christ jesus ministry. Truly is one that robbed killed and destroyed.
"What would you say to a person who does have a responsibility to instantiate public policy in some way?"
The only people who have a responsibility to instantiate public policy are people who have taken on that responsibility. The question then becomes whether as believers they should have. If the two party political system is currently overwhelmed with people choosing the way of power - if a believer has no room to behave with humility - self-giving - that's because God himself didn't provide that opportunity. God is sovereign - he arranges the world how he likes (I don't mean that he predestines all events - I mean that he can choose to make one person's free choice be countered by another person's free choice - or let the person operate uncontested). If God has shut the door in one place for self-giving that's no big deal- people who bring about change through love have the freedom to love in an unlimited number of ways. The reason why Christianity ultimately wins is there is no way to stop people loving other people.
Love sent to you sibling. Every word gold.
God rest
4 liberals all agreeing with each other. Pathetic.
Ryken speaks of Nationalism and Patriotism in the context of American Jeffersonian Democracy. He sounds a little like Tim Keller who vilified Christian Nationalism. Both are present cultural views not supported by Scripture. First, God ordained nations and discusses politics through the lens of nations all through the Bible. He even established nationalism within the Nation of Israel subdividing it by tribes with specific boarders. Further, he has always worked through nations. His rules for nations are even different than for individuals. He commanded nations to kill their enemies; he commanded individuals to love their enemies. The nation issue is a huge biblical issue and cannot be ignored. Does not God want people of every nation and language to be Christian? In that sense does not Christian Nationalism make sense. It is the kings of the nations of the earth who will come against Jesus and the Jewish Nation. The concept of Nation and Christian must be addressed from a biblical perspective. That said, Donald Trump would not be the Joshua of Christian Nationalism. It is and should be a spiritual movement that changes nations. It is not about who is President or Prime Minister or King. It is about Christ being King of all nations.
The Founding Fathers were very clear about separation of Church and State, probably because many came to this Country to escape the church and it's dogma. I've witnessed my entire life Christians trying to tear down what the Founders created and it angers me. Christians best tread lightly, our patience runs thin and we've grown tired of Christians constantly trying to dictate how others live and anytime someone pushes back against them, they play the victim, crying religious persecution. It's time to start labeling churches/religions hate groups.
I enjoyed this discussion. I've heard presentations from pro-Christian Nationalism side also (like Stephan Wolfe, Doug Wilson, Eric Metaxas and Charlie Kirk). I don't know the value of debates. The Christian Nationalist quote scriptures provided primarily in the Old Testament and those opposed to Christian Nationalism are able to use Jesus' words and New Testament scriptures effectively. I blame the church for being so far "off mission" that people turn their attention and priorities to government.
Christian Nationalism is how we bring the nation back to where "Transvestite Story Hour" at your child's grade school isn't even an option. That's why CN is on the rise. Christian Nationalism is gaining in popularity because Christians want radical change. Christians want radical change because we've witnessed radical change in the other direction (antiChristian direction) which has changed the texture and culture of our nation in a bad way. In order to affect such change, America must be governed by Christians. We hold Christianity above democracy, inclusion, tolerance, transvestite story hour and so forth. We want any form of government, like democracy, to submit and conform to a Christian value system rather than the other way around. We think America would be a better place if it was ruled by Christians rather than people who hate Jesus Christ.
John the Baptist had a sharp eye on government. So did Paul. The government is simply a collective of people. It is not to be avoided because they are people who must bow.
Always to the Lord.
God rest
Titus 3 instructs us to be patriotic? Wow, that's quite a stretch. Titus 3: "Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work." Big difference between being obedient and ready for every good work vs patriotism, I think, if you define patriotism as love for and devotion to one`s own country (see MW dictionary). Seems a lot closer to idolatry to me.
How about seeking the good for one’s nation, better? Read Jeremiah when Israel is sent. We are to seek the people’s good and there is nothing better than blessings from the Beloved.
God rest
News flash. Jesus is currently the King of the world - including the King of America. Let’s baptize the nations. And baptize America.
Heck I'm not even a pastor let alone a Bible scholar and I could've explained this issue better than these guys!
❤😊
Really don't know what they're talking about
I enjoyed the point that we need to look to writers who lived in pluralistic cultures to give us guidance in engaging our society today. The neo-calvinists are a great place to start, but I am wondering if we Reformed types have a blind spot and fail to listen to voices outside of our tradition. There are Christians all around us who have a highly developed theology of living as a weak minority in society. Why aren't we reading from sources from the African American church, the Chinese church, Palestinian Christians and many others who have no access to power.
Insight valid.
God rest
Not gonna watch four clean shaven men complain about optics and misapply John 18 for an hour
:) I had to chuckle.
God rest
I think many so called nationalists are simply people who love their country, its heros, its noble attributes and history
This is meant to be funny right?
I would define it as not an end but a means to an end. Basically, the gospel will spread so far and wide, the Christian population will be so much increased that world leadership offices will comprise of people who profess faith and obedience to Christ. Proverbs teaches that foolishness always ends in failure. Over time the foolishness of the world will be diminished in light of the overwhelming influence of the Great Commission. The failed ideological systems that are merely systems outside of the purview of obedience to God will prove themselves to be ineffective/inefficient and God’s statutes and morals will be the only logical and effective “last resort” for the world. Again, this is not the end but a means to the end in which the world being totally evangelized and taught obedience and Jesus will return and execute judgement on the living and the dead. His coming will also cause a great apostasy which is spoken of in 2 Thes 2 and this is also the same event spoken in Rev. 20 when Satan is released for a little while to deceive the nations once more. Christian Nationalism is the reality of the nations coming to knowledge and obedience to Christ. It’s a description of the on going process of the Great Commission. “Go out into all nations teaching them to obey” “the gospel of this kingdom will be proclaimed to all nations AND THEN the end will come”
"What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. Expel the wicked person from among YOU" - 1 Corinthians 5: 12+13
This was a joke, get out of your echo chamber
No joke
Let’s talk about Doug behind his back. Let’s not invite him to talk.
Shame.
Your faith does not belong in law and politics. If you choose to want that path in life then feel prevailed upon to take that path. The laws of society and civilization are not wholly based on the Bible .
Only men discussing the foundation of the new fascism. So very traditional and characteristic of pure fascism, I quote, “hierarchy of loyalty” speaks of blind patriotism over family values. This has nothing to do with genuine spirituality.
It doesn't. That's why it's a winner, just like evangelicalism was before COVID and 'deconstruction'. Christianity is difficult. Very few actually attempt it.
It must bother the Nationalists that Jesus would definitely be a Democrat and follow their lead to build a stronger country.
Jesus would definitely be a Democrat? not a chance, unless you have examples.
@@WilbertRobichaud Evidently you don't know the teachings of Christ. Read your Bible and learn something.
@@user-mn6pm2bs3q Not what I ask you, Jesus would have answered without insults.
@@user-mn6pm2bs3qHe wouldn't be involved in politics at all.
He'd just be a very good guy helping people while building a *heavenly* kingdom. That's kind of the whole point of his life and teaching. Be in the world, not of the world, etc.
@@merg-vh5sx His leanings would be democrats to inspire Trump supporters to weigh the values, honor, and principles of a man before you thrust him into the leadership of your country.