Thank you Dr Joseph Lumbard for this thorough, comprehensive, and thought provoking presentation Again thank you. May Allah bless you and your family. Ameen
I've missed Joseph's lectures, , he wouldn't upload for months so I've lost track of him. I checked he's channel and to my surprise there a several videos up. I'm wrapped, this man always brings me closer to my faith....
Great story about Wansborough at 11:20. I knew Orientalism, but I was completely unaware of how Quranic studies uses skepticism as a means to a political end. This reminds me very much of German Indology and their racist inversion of the Mahabharat which, shockingly, continues to be passed off as "science" today. Vishwa Adluri has written about this extensively. I commented on one of your earlier videos about feeling like I was unable to access the heart of the Qu'ran just by reading the Study Quran and other "Islam 101" materials. I now feel like this has been resolved for me, but the solution was a bit unexpected: I traveled to Istanbul, heard the daily cycle of prayers throughout the day, and visited the mosques built by Sinan. I now feel like I grasp the essential message of the Qu'ran and I am eager and excited to read it closely. I doubt this is very helpful for your deep, valuable intellectual project, but since you asked me to provide an update, there it is!
Can you write out the name of the Arab scholar you mentioned at 41:30? Also, could you give some links for the Telegram accounts you mentioned at 1:06:00 if any of them happen to be in English?
At academic conferences, I have also met academics from China, Taiwan and Japan who are publishing quite a lot of material in Chinese and Japanese. Occidental historians seem to gleam right over these works as well, presumably due to a lack of knowledge in those languages. What do you think of the idea that universities should be more open to including either Chinese or Japanese as research languages INSTEAD of French or German? (for Islamic studies specifically). Yousef Casewit did Spanish for instance instead of German when he was in grad school at Yale, but they only allowed it cause he was researching Islamic Spain. Are universities being too conservative in that regard? What if I want to learn Farsi and Arabic as my "Islamic" languages, but then Turkish and Hebrew as research languages? Is that not possible instead of German and French? Why do we have to be carbon copies every other PhD churned out?
This is a major issue in the academy. In many aspects of islamic Studies, there is far less material being published in German and French than in Turkish or Persian or other "Islamicate languages." Continuing to privilege German and French is in many was the remnant of coloniality.
First time hearing this brother and I fell in love with your teachings. I pray for more openings for you. I hope you know Dr Umar Farouk Abdullah and Hamza Yusuf? May Allah bless all of you.
Can you write out the name of the Arab scholar you mentioned at 41:30? Also, could you give some links for the Telegram accounts you mentioned at 1:06:00 if any of them happen to be in English?
@@jelumbard you're welcome brother. I should also say, as I've been watching quite a few of your lectures, that I really appreciate your presentation style. You're very skilled at conveying intricate details and perspectives in a way that is often quite allusive to western audiences (with exception of converts such as ourselves). I really wish there was more people like yourself speaking about Islam in an informed, intelligent, academic and non-prostletyzing manner that better conveys the eloquent nature of the Qur'an and Prophet, as well as our own rich intellectual history that goes under-recognized and underappreciated in the west. Fantastic work again brother, God bless
That's what I've been doing by guidance using Torah And Bible on the Tauheed with a Syrian Quran which conveys a lot of mystery may Allah bless you Abundantly and shed light to the truths you seek hidden in the dark Salam Aleikum Dr.
@@JohnGeometresMaximos no it doesn’t literally. It might do so from a human perspective in a story from a human lens. Remember the idea of a sunset itself is not literal is it..
in fact Reza might mean the Tawaf Wida which is a good bye tawaf that muslims do whenever we leave mecca whether during Hajj or Umrah.....in a way he is correct if meant the last rite before leaving mecca.....but definitely not the last rite of Hajj or Umrah.....the last rite is just cutting hairs
As a scholar, I don't spend much time dealing with amateur polemicists. Jay Smith is not a scholar and is not up to date on the current scholarship. He does not know the fundamental basics of manuscript studies. Manuscripts are written by human beings. Human beings make mistakes, the scribes would occasionally make a mistake and someone would go back and fix the manuscript when they noticed it. This happens in every manuscript tradition known to history. It does not constitute changes. He is also not knowledgeable in the manners in which the Quran was recited, etc.
How is that possible? Surah Yaseen verse 36. "Everything that the earth grows are made in pairs" 632ad Science 1850 ad. The plants have gender. The Quran is true
If anything, Islamic studies subjects are handled with kid-gloves by comparison to Biblical studies. Academia is overwhelmingly left-liberals, and Islamic studies in particular is full of mea culpas for and denunciations of the "colonial" legacy of Orientalism.
Mr Lumbard forgive me for saying that your lecture sounded more like a Juma’a Prayer than the historic Koran. You are totally disregarding absence of evidence when it comes to the whole history of Islam and what ever little evidence there is like manuscripts, coins and Syriac writing is contrary to the Islamic tradition writings which you subscribe to. Kind regards.
That is incorrect. The earliest manuscripts (thus earliest evidence we have) all confirm collection around the time discussed by the Islamic tradition, though carbon dating cannot give us any precise dates (see in particular the work of Behnam Sadeghi). Furthermore, as Michale Cook has argued, even if we did not have the story of the collection of the Quran during the Uthmanic Caliphate, the available evidence would lead us to posit the middle of the 7th century AD as the most likely period in which the Quran was collected. Please also note that there are NO elements of prayer in this academic lecture.
Thank you Dr Joseph Lumbard for this thorough, comprehensive, and thought provoking presentation
Again thank you. May Allah bless you and your family. Ameen
Thank you
@@jelumbard
What makes you think the muslims know the quran better than I do?
Name one thing.
Muslims dedicate a lot of their life to study it. Since GOD HAS COMMANDED US TO PONDER ON IT.@@JohnGeometresMaximos
I've missed Joseph's lectures, , he wouldn't upload for months so I've lost track of him. I checked he's channel and to my surprise there a several videos up. I'm wrapped, this man always brings me closer to my faith....
Great story about Wansborough at 11:20. I knew Orientalism, but I was completely unaware of how Quranic studies uses skepticism as a means to a political end. This reminds me very much of German Indology and their racist inversion of the Mahabharat which, shockingly, continues to be passed off as "science" today. Vishwa Adluri has written about this extensively.
I commented on one of your earlier videos about feeling like I was unable to access the heart of the Qu'ran just by reading the Study Quran and other "Islam 101" materials. I now feel like this has been resolved for me, but the solution was a bit unexpected: I traveled to Istanbul, heard the daily cycle of prayers throughout the day, and visited the mosques built by Sinan. I now feel like I grasp the essential message of the Qu'ran and I am eager and excited to read it closely. I doubt this is very helpful for your deep, valuable intellectual project, but since you asked me to provide an update, there it is!
Can you write out the name of the Arab scholar you mentioned at 41:30? Also, could you give some links for the Telegram accounts you mentioned at 1:06:00 if any of them happen to be in English?
At academic conferences, I have also met academics from China, Taiwan and Japan who are publishing quite a lot of material in Chinese and Japanese. Occidental historians seem to gleam right over these works as well, presumably due to a lack of knowledge in those languages. What do you think of the idea that universities should be more open to including either Chinese or Japanese as research languages INSTEAD of French or German? (for Islamic studies specifically). Yousef Casewit did Spanish for instance instead of German when he was in grad school at Yale, but they only allowed it cause he was researching Islamic Spain. Are universities being too conservative in that regard? What if I want to learn Farsi and Arabic as my "Islamic" languages, but then Turkish and Hebrew as research languages? Is that not possible instead of German and French? Why do we have to be carbon copies every other PhD churned out?
This is a major issue in the academy. In many aspects of islamic Studies, there is far less material being published in German and French than in Turkish or Persian or other "Islamicate languages." Continuing to privilege German and French is in many was the remnant of coloniality.
First time hearing this brother and I fell in love with your teachings. I pray for more openings for you. I hope you know Dr Umar Farouk Abdullah and Hamza Yusuf? May Allah bless all of you.
بارك الله فيك وزادك الله علما. الغريب ان رينولدز لا يصنف نفسه على انه revisionst بالرغم انه كذلك حتى نخاع العظم.
top-notch stuff Doctor. much appreciated from a humble student. please keep up the good work! JazakAllah!
Can you write out the name of the Arab scholar you mentioned at 41:30? Also, could you give some links for the Telegram accounts you mentioned at 1:06:00 if any of them happen to be in English?
Salaam fantastic presentation, very much needed discussion. Orientialism falls over it's own tail.
Glad you liked it
@@jelumbard you're welcome brother. I should also say, as I've been watching quite a few of your lectures, that I really appreciate your presentation style.
You're very skilled at conveying intricate details and perspectives in a way that is often quite allusive to western audiences (with exception of converts such as ourselves).
I really wish there was more people like yourself speaking about Islam in an informed, intelligent, academic and non-prostletyzing manner that better conveys the eloquent nature of the Qur'an and Prophet, as well as our own rich intellectual history that goes under-recognized and underappreciated in the west.
Fantastic work again brother, God bless
Dr. Lumbard.. i was at your Alma Mater, GWU, last night for a lecture by Dr. Mohsen Kadivar. Were you ever a student of Dr. Nasr?
Yes. I did my BA and MA at GWU before going to Yale for the PhD.
That's what I've been doing by guidance using Torah And Bible on the Tauheed with a Syrian Quran which conveys a lot of mystery may Allah bless you Abundantly and shed light to the truths you seek hidden in the dark Salam Aleikum Dr.
Very beneficial. Thank you.
Dr. Joseph I wonder if I could get a transcript of it ,wanna translate it into Urdu
it is on academia.edu
@@jelumbard
Does the Sun literally set in a muddy pool/spring according to the quran?
@@JohnGeometresMaximos no it doesn’t literally. It might do so from a human perspective in a story from a human lens. Remember the idea of a sunset itself is not literal is it..
@@Monavah
imamyahyasite
- The Ahadith, the Tafsirs & the Setting Sun
- Dhul Qarnain and the Setting Sun
- The Apologists & Dhul Qarnain
@@JohnGeometresMaximos
Ok so what?
Excellent
in fact Reza might mean the Tawaf Wida which is a good bye tawaf that muslims do whenever we leave mecca whether during Hajj or Umrah.....in a way he is correct if meant the last rite before leaving mecca.....but definitely not the last rite of Hajj or Umrah.....the last rite is just cutting hairs
Thank you.
viewers of the youtube cannot listen to the questions which is also very important.
Dr Joseph ..... Do you know Jay Smith ? what he says about history of writing quran and modifications. He says old quranic menuscripts have changings
As a scholar, I don't spend much time dealing with amateur polemicists. Jay Smith is not a scholar and is not up to date on the current scholarship. He does not know the fundamental basics of manuscript studies. Manuscripts are written by human beings. Human beings make mistakes, the scribes would occasionally make a mistake and someone would go back and fix the manuscript when they noticed it. This happens in every manuscript tradition known to history. It does not constitute changes. He is also not knowledgeable in the manners in which the Quran was recited, etc.
He also brags thar he's studied Islam for 35+ years yet still can't read nor write in Arabic. The guy is the biggest joke out there.
@@jelumbard
You seem to be an amateur yourself...🤣
Have you ever read the quran?
at least we can agree on pimple popping video's
A dirty pleasure!
How is that possible?
Surah Yaseen verse 36. "Everything that the earth grows are made in pairs" 632ad
Science 1850 ad. The plants have gender.
The Quran is true
If anything, Islamic studies subjects are handled with kid-gloves by comparison to Biblical studies. Academia is overwhelmingly left-liberals, and Islamic studies in particular is full of mea culpas for and denunciations of the "colonial" legacy of Orientalism.
Has the speaker mastered Persian language as well?
No.
@@jelumbard
What does your family think of the Islamic faith?
Mr Lumbard forgive me for saying that your lecture sounded more like a Juma’a Prayer than the historic Koran. You are totally disregarding absence of evidence when it comes to the whole history of Islam and what ever little evidence there is like manuscripts, coins and Syriac writing is contrary to the Islamic tradition writings which you subscribe to.
Kind regards.
That is incorrect. The earliest manuscripts (thus earliest evidence we have) all confirm collection around the time discussed by the Islamic tradition, though carbon dating cannot give us any precise dates (see in particular the work of Behnam Sadeghi). Furthermore, as Michale Cook has argued, even if we did not have the story of the collection of the Quran during the Uthmanic Caliphate, the available evidence would lead us to posit the middle of the 7th century AD as the most likely period in which the Quran was collected. Please also note that there are NO elements of prayer in this academic lecture.
nice propaganda piece.
Thank you
@@jelumbard your welcome.