Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs-A Short Incomplete "Brou-ha-ha" History Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Little did Mobile Fidelity realize that when it announced the coming One-Step release of Michael Jackson's "Thriller" that it would cause both worldwide excitement and force the admission that its "Ultra-Analog" mastering chain included a digital link. In this video TrackingAngle editor Michael Fremer discusses how he got drawn into the maelstrom and why he refused to promote the rumor until it was proven fact. He includes a few side roads to make it more interesting. And a commenter is correct: don't wear horizontal shirts! It's not a good look. He's not fat. Hit the button and subscribe to this RUclips channel!
Glad this video wasn’t about how Michael Esposito wasn’t the right guy to interview MoFi guys. Fremer strengthened his ego overnight. Well done!
that ac/dc snippet was incredible
I'll try to put the track up from my turntable and see if AC/DC publisher leaves it up!
Even an 8-track cartridge bought from a spinner rack at a Flying J truck stop in 1978 was ultimately "sourced from the original master tape".
I was critical of you over the interview with 45rpm, but I really appreciated this one. Very helpful information - thank you!
A brilliant and fair video. This label and their parent company now need to get back consumer trust, because I don't think I will buy another product from Music Direct/MoFi until that happens in a meaningful way.
Could not agree more
The owner Jim Davis hoards copies #001 to #100 of every single MOFI release. That is why is is rare to come across LOW numbers. Items are not as rare as claimed. I worked there for many years.
@poetryonplastic Hey, Michael. FYI, I was your 40th like…lol 🥳 Seriously though, I’m totally with you regarding the Music Direct / MoFi thing, but I think it’ll take some time until they’re able to gain back the trust of their customers.
@mrsenk Yes they jack up the prices on Discogs /secondary markets with copies that they purposely hoarded for decades. Really silly for the owner to hold onto 100 copies of each title. Why not keep two or three for yourself?
@@adamlinder4939 honestly, I’d be more Pissed about that than the DSD-gate.
I note a considerable collection of long playing recordings forming a backdrop to this you tube video.
I'm shocked that people are shocked that the Masters are DSD. Most masters done from like 1982 on were probably done on Digital Tape anyway. Too that, if there are any Magnetic Master Tapes that can still be played, they've already been copied to a digital master. Even if the Master is transferred to a DSD file, it's still the ORIGINAL MASTER. It's an exact copy of the analog tape but will allow Mo-Fi to be able to make many copies over and over, something they couldn't do with a dying role of decaying magnetic tape that's already half-past dead. To that, wasn't it Mo-Fi that damaged the Original Master Tape for TDSOTM back in the late 70's when they accidentally taped over it with their NEW master... Is this really that big of a deal? Was Mo-Fi really deceitful or did the consumer have an unrealistic expectation in the 21st century? I love SACD and Mo-Fi makes some killer SACD's, from the same source as their LP's but without the anomalies of Vinyl Records.
Sorry but much of what you’ve posted is simply not true. Digital recording did not become dominant for a decade after 1982. While most analog tapes have been digitized the tapes mostly still exist and most are playable.
And digitization is not transparent to the source. The best is close but…
If they were upfront about what they did none of this would have happened
Hello Miichael . Don't even listen to negative comments . You are very knowledgeable and ahould be respected as a not only an enbassador of vynil. Congrats
MOFI only had to state back when the dsd source came into play that they will have to start using more analog to dsd mastering and that would have been transparent enough ...
I just played my original 80s pressing of "Thriller" and It does sound freakin' good.
I wonder how much better can the one step be? I'd rather get 3 "Tone Poets" for the same $$.
Mike said it’s amazing. 2 ‘ forward vocals
Thriller is the easiest record to find on the planet, but the new remastering could be even more thrilling. So, being an MFSL, I would expect that it would be.
Said no audiophile ever...
It will be better but the original is still quite impressive
I'd rather get 3 hot dogs than buy a mofi release.
Thank you for clarifying your stance and back story.
I fainted when I heard that. My wife had to throw a bucket of water in my face and kicked me in the ribs to revive me.
Apparently, next week they will start giving out all the processes for every album going back to the 80's.
MoFi used our passion for analog sound vinyl and took advantage of that to get our money.
I thank you for your videos about the MOFI issue.
The MOFI case is a mirror faced in front of the Audiophile community that reveals the replacement of the main goal of a common audiophile which is the desire for a maximum/best sound quality reproduction with a race after the isosteric hard to get more expensive all analogue process. This has occurred without us the community stop to ask ourself or even worse, when a digital step added to an audio process is ruled automatically to be bad for the whole cutting process even it enables a (no doubt about it) superior one step pressing. no one is evaluating the whole chain. the word digital has blocked the thinking process of the total result.
The question have to be asked why MOFI who undouble achieved a higher sound quality (as reported for the Abraxas release for example) had to be vague on the fact they are using a digital process in their updated sound reproduction process?
is it because they want to hide a fact they are selling a much easy to produce and inferior "CD on Vinyl" product (the statement is just for the sake of discussion) and continue collecting money with higher profit from the audiophile "suckers"?
or maybe is it because Audiophiles community, who their moto is judging a product sonic quality with their own ears will be too shocked to hear (Double meaning... 🙂 ) that digital process exists and add an advantage to the sound quality, in conflict with the community conception which automatically detach a "made from original master" when a step of a super high resolution digital copy is involved?
If MOFI would have used a 2nd generation analogue copy, done by MOFI from original master, and not a DSD process, would the Vinyl community have accepted this step because the All analogue purity has been maintained? we have to remember that MOFI have replace the "Father + Mother" steps with a 2nd generation copy so there is an important improvement added to the process together with that 2nd generation added step. Why nobody talks about the total results? why focus only on one (important) added step? why nobody evaluate the 2 choice between a DSD vs a 2nd generation Analogue copy which MOFI has done already for us?
So the vinyl community has to first identify if the latest MOFI "one step" process has a total improvement of sound or not, comparing to any process MOFI has presented over the years, and comparing with other companies audiophile releases, of course also with price tag comparison.
Last, I present you with the most shocking "Elephant in the room" which no one yet on all the MOFI videos so far has neglected to talk about:
In case MOFI "one step" process is found to be actually the best audio quality and efficient way to cut a vinyl from an original master then it means that within the chain of cutting process, The DSD step has the maximum and better sound quality source for the vinyl cut process, better than the vinyl product itself.
This has a huge impact on the vinyl industry, because the DSD (or other high res digital file format) can be sold and streamed with even a better quality than that of the best vinyl pressing there is.
This means that audiophile vinyl format becomes to be in the third place of the highest audio quality possible (the second place belongs to an exotic, expensive and very limited in quantities direct Reel to Reel studio quality copy of the original master Tape) and 1st audio quality possible to obtain at home would become to be a digital file.
This removes the carpet under the whole vinyl industry, or at least the audiophile vinyl industry, and this is in my opinion the real reason for MOFI ambiguity on the cutting process.
As a non-audiophile who is interested more in the consumer advocacy angle of this, I was wondering why a company might cut its own throat this way. Your comments have clarified that for me. It seems to have a bit of a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” rationale behind it, and they miscalculated which outcome would be worse-being fully transparent, or ceding a perceived competitive advantage. I suppose they calculated that they couldn’t have it both ways, so decided to hide certain things, which seems a remarkably common (albeit shady) practice in the business world today. They do need a “crisis management” response to this, but that must embrace transparency going forward. It seems to me they could still operate effectively in both the digital and analog audiophile realms in the future as long as they are transparent, because regardless of what “objectively” sounds best-to which there will never be an answer that satisfies all listeners-no one really wants to think they are being bullshitted.
Because 4xDSD has such incredibly exponentially greater & deeper resolution than 30ips analog tape, MoFi appears to be referring to the 4xDSD as “The Original Master”.
Well, by definition the transfer can't yield higher resolution than the source.
@@trackingangle929 Very true as that would be tantamount to 110% efficiency or better. But carefully transferring 30ips to 4xDSD could be analogous to carefully transferring liquid from a pint sized container to a really high quality quart sized container. MoFi has standardized on 4xDSD, effectively telling us that is the best most transparent format available today for *their* Masters.
@@DelmarToad It cannot excede the resolution of the source & furthermore analogue represents infinity (as in nature) which can never be achieved in the digital realm.
It would be like very carefully transferring liquid from a pint sized container into a really fancy high quality quart sized container. You would expect to be able to fully contain & retain everything that was in the original source container.
Their wording is that they performed the transfer and tape alignment from the master tapes themselves, on their machines, but to DSD, and not straight to the cutting lathe. Their SACD releases are correct when they say it is mastered from the original tape, but the vinyl is cut from those same files.
ooof would’ve loved to have heard that ac/dc
the email from Mofi Customer service was sent to me. It was posted from the Steve Hoffman forum, but it's interesting that i've seen it posted a few places now on social media, but not a single person reached out to me to confirm it's real.
It came to me from someone I trust. Did anyone on SHF claim it was fake?
@@trackingangle929 we just believe everything we read on the internet now? How pro journalist! Someone i trust told me Mofi records were AAA.
This topic is better than tv. Great job Fremer!
That sound you hear in the distance is Mofi lp prices crashing on discogs.
I'm shocked! Shocked to find out gambling has been going on in this casino! Round up the usual suspects!
Most manufacturers regard honesty as a liability rather than an asset. In many cases, that is to their advantage.
Well, no matter what you think about this guy, at least he didn't return from Munich declaring "peace for our time".
Great video. I am learning so much as always. Will Mobile Fidelity Vinyl price in the future change? I'm guessing it was easier to provide maximum prices when the public was under the belief that these recordings were processed a certain way, but now that the public knows better and as part of Mobile Fidelity possible image cleaan up, I was just curious as to what their price points will be in the future.
I'm a vinyl nerd, but will be considering more SACD products.
Audiophiles will still buy it.... Because they are COLLECTORS! They have to have it! They have to have everything... even if it sounds bad!
So freaking true!
Well, collectors will buy it. Not all audiophiles are collectors!
@@trackingangle929 i think there’s a fine line. Considering which ever the prioritize. Music over collectibility and Vice verse.
@@trackingangle929 Thanks for responding Michael. True, but we should be able to buy all editions at hi end quality. Most people running a turntable these days are hi-fi buffs and Audiophiles. People that want quality. It's only a small minority that are running Crowley cruisers and tube suitcase gramophone players. Previously, the industry toned down the fidelity to suit these people as they were the majority (i.e Led ZepII / Bob Ludwing story). But in todays world, the masses are on Spotify using their smart phones and ear buds or at best streaming with a PC and a DAC. The industry can no longer say "we don't want to make um too good because our customers don't have good kit".
All re-releases should be as good, if not better than the first pressing. After all, technology is supposed to move forward. If they want to run mono's and gatefold's and coloured vinyls for collectors, fine. But give the grass roots the very best as they are the ones loyal to the game and arguably are the customer base. Making a two tear sales system means EVERYONE is just being played and it will result in turning people away from vinyl.
What happened to the customer is always right?
Well I am not a psychic, but I suspect there will be a class action, probably already is one ready to be filed ATM. And like it or not, you may end up as an expert witness again. I can easily imagine the mobile fidelity response team is putting the brakes on the needed response to anticipate the suit(s) that are almost certain to follow.
Hey Mikey, your Watergate comment reminds me of anther: "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive..." I believe they have released a list of provenance for the albums...
Ha, I didn't know Michael Ludwigs was involved in helping deflect VWgate! I'm sure that was a healthy contract to secure! LOL. Good video Michael.
I did not understand why the MFSL box should be so strongly avoided. What is wrong with it except of the white modern sleeves? By the way, it is pretty much clear reason for what they has done. The Beatles UK LP covers were designed using pictures of the group with too much retouch to it. As a result they had never been a real piece of art. So why bother keeping them?
The Michael Ludwig Chad Kassem video stream was FANTASTIC!! 45RPM Mike is really becoming a fantastic resource for analog/vinyl info.
“The Cover Up is Always Worse Than The Crime” is 100% true!
Michael, you rock man. I even think I met you in 1972 when you and a couple of others from WBCN 104.1, always my favorite station then, came to Brookline HIgh School during our Seminar Day, and when someone from the station asked us, "so you're all seniors?", I said, "well I'm a freshman, ha!" Keep doing what you're doing. Again my favorite places were Music City in Kenmore and the Harvard and Children's Hospital COOPs. Later a great store in Coolidge Corner that had Friday night 11 pm sales. Great prices and selection. Anyway thanks for shedding light on this deceptive practice by MoFi. I have some of their pressings too, not all sound better than my originals.
Hi Michel, thanks so much for all your efforts. Mofi must be transparent, and do things the Kevin Gray, Bernie Grundman and all the others are doing this. Be honest is really what we need, and not dirty capitalism. Thanks
As always, great vid, great insight. Keep ‘em coming.
It's amazing that some people think there could be lawsuits over this.
BAILIFF: Do you swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
MOFI: Uhh. Yes. We brought some records
JUDGE: Play the one with the red cover.
4 minutes later...
JUDGE: I didn't realize they still made records; and they sound way way better than I remember too. I don't hear any problem. Case dismissed...Bang.
Why they have to lie .t? If they Convert the analog master to DSD and then, from the DSD copy ;they can make vinyl with high resolution as the analogo . In my opinion ; Is very practical because you have to protect the original master for future generation . Daaaaa
Charging exhorbitant analog prices for audio version of photoshop...nice. It'd be fine if they just said this is REALLY good digital capture.
I am not, and never have been, an audiophile. I do appreciate great-sounding records, and I know what sounds good to me personally. I’m interested in this discussion more from a business/marketing/corporate transparency/consumer advocacy angle in general, and I think you and others are right to characterize it as a “disaster,” not just for MoFi’s image and reputation, but for the ripple effects that will carry through this portion of the industry, including with record retailers and resellers. It’s always infuriating to know that you’ve been lied to. From what I’ve heard from this video and a few other voices on RUclips, I think Mr. Fremer laid out the history and facts in a fair and understandable way, even for someone like me who’s not super knowledgeable about the audiophile community.
So we're all listening to digital on vinyl! How do you like them apples? I'll be no good dadgummed!
We need a new version of the spars codes
I agree with the comments made in this video. Funnily a few minutes in I thought this debacle reminded me of the series "Gaslit". So more agreement there Michael. Thanks.
Great videos Mike, as always.
Best sounding record in my collection = Mofi's Miles In The Sky.
Worst sounding record in my collection = Bundles by Soft Machine, an all-analogue recording pressed in 1975.
Too much prejudice against digital audio, which is probably why Mofi haven't been transparent about what they're doing.
I dare them to hire Michael Ludwig and Michael Fremer on a consultant basis to fix this customer relations problem. They won't do it, of course they're afraid of any hint of admission of guilt, but they would be very, very wise to do so.
Michael, I have always admired your honesty and integrity. Has any progress been made regarding the DSD vs. master tape comparison you spoke of?
The formats that sound closest to the master tapes are: 1. Digital, 2. Digital, 3. Digital. Thank you MoFi !
1. DSD 2. Second generation tape 3. 24/192 PCM
Can’t believe they don’t have records of what was done for each pressing. If not that says a lot about how they runs things.
You’re the best Michael 👍
More About Mobile Fidelity UltraDisc One-Step and Why It Is Superior
Instead of utilizing the industry-standard three-step lacquer process, Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab's new UltraDisc One-Step (UD1S) uses only one step, bypassing two processes of generational loss. While three-step processing is designed for optimum yield and efficiency, UD1S is created for the ultimate in sound quality. Just as Mobile Fidelity pioneered the UHQR (Ultra High-Quality Record) with JVC in the 1980s, UD1S again represents another state-of-the-art advance in the record-manufacturing process. MFSL engineers begin with the original master tapes and meticulously cut a set of lacquers. These lacquers are used to create a very fragile, pristine UD1S stamper called a "convert." Delicate "converts" are then formed into the actual record stampers, producing a final product that literally and figuratively brings you closer to the music. By skipping the additional steps of pulling another positive and an additional negative, as done in the three-step process used in standard pressings, UD1S produces a final LP with the lowest noise floor possible today. The removal of the additional two steps of generational loss in the plating process reveals tremendous amounts of extra musical detail and dynamics, which are otherwise lost due to the standard copying process. The exclusive nature of these very limited pressings guarantees that every UD1S pressing serves as an immaculate replica of the lacquer sourced directly from the original master tape. Every conceivable aspect of vinyl production is optimized to produce the most perfect record album available today.
Not sure why you are posting advertising here but feel free.
Thank you making this video. Transparency is the key issue here. I remember when cd’s first came out they would say AAD, ADD etc. I remember people complaining about not having pure digital recording but at least we knew. MOFI should come clean and list how the recordings were made and in all future records have those details printed clearly on every record. The worst thing that MOFI can do is bury their head in the sand and not come clean to those who purchase their records.
Unbelievable windbag. Am I going to be like this when I'm 75?
Hearing this brought me back to MQA brou-ha-ha.
I saw the MoFi ad / headline with Bernie Grundman
It lasted under 10 minutes, immediately seen, possibly tagged/ copied on Steve Hoffman Forums
Man if there’s a screen grab I’d love to have it!!!
Customers were willing to pay the significant premium - of one-step releases especially - not only for the expected sound quality but also on the assumption that working with analog only is a greater challenge and more costly. MF need not only to come clean but to cut prices in the process of regaining goodwill.
If it sounds good, it is good. I hope there aren't any class action lawsuits. That would result in lawyers becoming rich and consumers getting a $10 discount and bankrupt MoFi due to legal fees.
Class action suits are among the biggest scams ever. Started out with a purpose but then….bottom dwellers took over.
They need to go bankrupt.
@@borisspantic1333 They are nowhere near bankrupt, not by a long shot.
@@borisspantic1333 I don't want people to lose their livelihoods over this. If they go bankrupt, it just means less choices for consumers and less records.
u just gotta ❤️ this!
✌️❤️🇩🇰
The tricky thing is that MoFi uses quad DSD and plangent is a PCM process. To use it they have to convert to 24/96 or 24/192 and incur further loss of transparency from the original tape. Maybe it worth it because of the Plangent Process, but I'm sure they would rather manage on their end with playback deck and keep it DSD, which IMO sounds pretty close to the source.
It would make for an interesting experiment. But if they are applying EQ (which they do rather poorly in many cases) they can't do that in DSD. I'm trying to get the process...
Great video Michael! I was never a big fan of Mofi I like seeking out older copy’s that’s just me. But yes they need to be truthful about there source of master tapes or DSD that’s it!
thank you
Abbey Road were open from the start about their half-speed master LPs being from digital. Audiophiles bought them anyway, people loved the John Martyn 'Solid Air'. Pointless deception from MoFi, I believe that audiophiles who love the sound not the process are the silent majority.
20,000 copies of Miles Davis “Kind of Blue” UHQR ALL ANALOG???
I have QUESTIONS!
What you are getting is a 4xDSD sound. Whatever that is.
Great final thought and an amazing idea!!! Go Fund Me for the two lacquers and we all get each record!!! Im all in!!!
Excellent video, Michael 👍
Michael you are the best…..😊We want transparentsy 😅
Have a good day 👍
-Thomas
Though I don't want to disparage the engineers Shawn Britton did lie himself, and he said one of the most egregiously blatant lies.
At a 2017 promotional event for the miles davis releases he said infront of a massive miles davis mofi poster "people ask us if our entire mastering chain is all analog. It is." But then in Mike's video he says the miles titles were from DSD. This video is on RUclips so I'm sure you've seen it by now.
So this isn't just marketing it's the whole place, top to bottom deceit. Hell maybe music direct told them to only use DSD to cut on costs. Maybe they damaged another tape like they supposedly did with DSOTM so lost their in house priveleges. Because if they believed DSD was better as masterers theyd be championing it, theyd be showing comparison videos and spinning it as better than analog. Not calling it gain 2 analog and avoiding the dreaded D word in all promo materials. Either way it seems like corporate told him to say that since he looked insanely uncomfortable/fidgety, even worse than the ingroove video, by body language alone it was an overt lie.
I have over 20 mofis, I was never picky with analog vs digital. One of my favorite records is my Japan CBS masteround wish you were here half speed by Stan Ricker. I absolutely love the digital AP pet sounds and smiley smile. But I bought mofi for the provenance of analog and the inherant limited nature of it. Not just some pressing of a file that can be made 10000000x. I thought it was like a time capsule to the true mastertape not a digital transfer. I still love my mofis but seriously I cant support a company that lies to my face, attempts to deceive and only cares about cash. Sure companies are for profit but this is gross and id rather support enthusiasts like Chad at acoustic sounds, or Sean at intervention or the amazing Brad at Sam records. They actually care about their product and their consumers. The fact that they feel comfortable deceiving people like this is genuinely disturbing. I'm not too suprised though since their customer service has been appalling. I buy 2 of the strictly limited pressings I get because they always send me seem splits and refuse to replace them. It's either pay shipping to have nothing or stick with an overpriced damaged record. And I guarantee they even send them out seem split because I'll get the same amount of AP titles and other brands and while 1/10 of worst packaged records may be a seem split almost half of my mofis were. They lie about strictly limited by making a supervinyl version. So not only is the new SV one better the old ones lose their value as youre told its limited. The customer service is often rude and uncaring. Then they stopped fulfilling my pre-orders like tigerlily was on their site twice past 2 weeks but they didn't fufill my order. Same with workingmens dead. They're the same company and yet they won't fufill MD backorders while putting 1000+ on mofi.com just so they can charge $10 more for shipping and not have to fufill old $50 orders. While AP is unbelievably kind. They answer every question I have, they're always respectful. Best is they replace damaged disc's no questions asked. I have 2 strange days because one of mine had bad surface noise at the begining of people are strange so they sent me both disc's. The next week they sent me a soft parade disc because it had a big deep scratch from production. They didn't even request pictures or the old copies. I haven't even had a seem split from them but I'm sure they'd send me a jacket asap if I did. Caring for customers goes a long way and so I try to buy everything I get from acoustic sounds.
Also so many mofis fall flat. Their big pink release is excellent due to the original having low-end lopped off for the crappy portable turntables kids had. But their the band self titled is poor and really does sound sterile and digital. A VvG $20 RL crushes it. My vg+ LA RL is some of the best audiophile music I've ever heard. Truly all analog and crushes alot of my mofis. Alot of surface noise but the music is just so good, yet they made it sound so much worse. Their folk singer onestep is a joke compared to the AP. The $35 reprise clapton unplugged crushed the onestep. Their pearl onestep is worse than their regular one like with tapestry which is weird. Their KOB is laughable next to the UHQR and to me it sounds rather digital. The kevin gray electric wareior beats the mofi. I've always noticed they're very hit or miss which may be due to the digital transfer. Usually if there's an audiophile record to compare the mofi loses and many times they lose to the first pressings which often are far cheaper in price.
However some of my mofis are utterly stunning. Some of my favorites include vanilla fudge, truth, iron butterfly supervinyl(tho wish they added the reverb back), dire straits s/t, train(as a 30 year old it's super nostalgic for me), volunteers/surrealistic pillow, croaby supervinyl. Before the flood is killer and is far better than the original. Allison krause is great too and the only way to get it(wish i had live). Their Weezer Pinkerton is great too.
Also most of their dylans are great though for many I prefer the mono box which always concerned me since the mono box is on regular vinyl, mass produced, and 33rpm yet the mofis on high grade vinyl, pressed at rti, 45rpm, and limited, way more expensive and aren't much better if in some ways worse. I wouldn't be suprised if some of my better sounding ones are the few analog ones they did. My system is pretty basic, upgraded thorens td160, at 540ml, pioneer sx950, and Polk monitor 7bs. It produces an awesome vintage sound but even on a $2000 setup I can hear a vast difference in quality between many mofis and many APs. I've yet to hear a mofi that improved the sound so much as AP did with their doors and a ton of their beach boys releases. The onesteps dont even come close to the uhqrs. I still wish i had bridge over trouble water but i heard some say the classic is just as good if not better. Ive heard mixed things about fragile as well. I always assumed this quality discrepancy was mastering choices but now it seems it may not be, especially with the talent they employ.
One thing that's also disturbing is that it seems like they even made intentional decisions to leave imperfections to deceive people into believing it's analog. Like for example there's one song on the Crosby supervinyl with a ton of distortion in the tape. It's worse on the mofi over other copies due to the supervinyl clarity. This distortion could have been fixed to some degree digitally yet they left it. Same with parts of truth. Or they could have digitally added the reverb back into the iron butterfly yet kept it as it is on the mastertape. Layla could have been cleaned up a ton. So they weren't even making the best product they could digitally due to trying to pretend it's analog. It seems they maliciously decided against cleaning up tape issues to deceive people into thinking its analog. My god they keep tape hiss on many releases. Why even use digital unless you're going to take advantage of it? The AP digital beach boys are often reveletory and super clean. These could have all sounded as stellar as the stero pet sounds AP but they wanted to make people believe it's analog. They're insanely sneaky.
As a 90s kid I couldnt turn down getting the two dido albums on classic records when they were cheap. They are just simple sterile dated electronic pop songs. However the sound off those is insane. Her voice is right there and so damn real. There's so much power and clarity too it. It literally sent chills down my spine it was so clear. It's shocking how well they did that album. And that was like almost 20 years old and still no mofi has given me such a reaction. Often they just sound too sterile, hell they're more sterile than the early 00s pop music on the classic records. My stairway test pressing destroy most of my mofis and it's not even close. My Diana krall xmas songs is up there too. And theyre all 33rpm except the test pressing to mofis 45s. Hell my org live in Paris 45 crushes most of my mofis in terms of sound quality. Shit I got this live jazz record on rsd understanding by Roy brooks by reel to reel and honestly it's better than alot ot mofis. In hindsight mofi is not as amazing as its reputation was. I always assumed it was mastering choices but it may be due to DSD.
The only good thing about music direct is they screwed up and gave me $250($150 retail) worth of records for free by mistake. I was gonna tell them but decided to sell them on discogs to recoup some of what they stole from me. Their standards of behavior is genuinely disturbing and I hope they get sued since this behavior shouldn't be acceptable in vinyl. You can't lie about car specs or food ingrediants. If you sell a print as a painting or a 3rd state butcher as a 1st, you'll be in big trouble, even if it looks the same its not the same. So why can vinyl lie like this? Luxury product or not it deceptive false advertising and shows how little they care about vinyl. It's just money for them.
I'm happy this happened now as they sink millions into their pressing plant. I hope karma hits them hard and they end up running at 10% capacity or don't recoup losses. Screw them.
Thank Gawd for Michael - I'm stunned at the criticisms he receives - he's one of the few beacons in the darkness of our hobby that we can rely on - - on the brighter side, "your speakers sound different with different cables, sorry to tell ya" - that one brought a grin to my face, too funny - - and it's funny because it's beyond ridiculous true, no matter what ASR tells everyone and regardless that I truly respect Amir and his measurements - - my love for Stereo is burning bright after my leaving it for dead back in the dark ages of having CDs jammed down my throat - which I enjoy, but that period did bring on a loss of interest to me personally - so my opinion which isn't humble here is that we all have this man to thank for that.
Excellent conclusion to the first video.
You get one opportunity to be honest with people. Once trust is broken, you can’t get it back, for it’s gone. I’ll only ever buy used records prior to 2000 ever again. These current owners are flim flam artists.
Great Job.
Watching this brought a growing grin to my face as I thought about how I've gravitated to Analogue Productions over the past 15 years.
I'll keep my mo-fis, but ain't buying any more.
I got the impression they do have data on how they did the older stuff. I'm thinking it's just not in computer data base.
Thank you, but now.... i got a headache
Me too! Trust me…
Thanks Michael. You may know that MoFi has been making digital backup copies of master tapes for a very long time. They did so in 1982, making digital half-speed copies of the stereo Beatles box set tapes, using a large Sony BVH-1000 1' type C video recorder, and a Sony A-D / D-A converter. The early digital setup did not sound very good when used at normal 1:1 recording and playback speeds, but at half speed the sample rate was effectively doubled, and musical signal content was kept far away from the early dreadful brick-wall anti-aliasing filters surrounding the A/D/A process. That helped a lot.~~~ Also, the stereo tapes, in their metal boxes, were in the safe at MoFi for much longer than two days, no matter what Herb
said - it took quite a while to carefully and delicately transfer them at half speed to the 1" machine for backup. Some of the early lacquers were cut with the master tapes, but once the tapes were returned, follow-on lacquers were cut from the backups. This is where the 'rumor' about the early box sets being more desirable came from, since there was no digital conversion, and a very large layer of complexity was naturally cut out of the signal path. ~~~ Stan was quite funny during the cutting process for the early recordings. The band was presented in ridiculous hard stereo, voices on the left and instruments on the right (or vice versa), a very gimmicky early stereo arrangement possibly imposed by a hostile recording engineer somewhere in the process. He would mute the half speed vocal signal feed to the loudspeakers, and we'd just listen to the half speed instruments over the Meyer monitors. Kept our sanity that way. There's more fun details surrounding these events as well. Best Regards!
Good video man!!! 🎤
One thing I don't understand that you might clarify: if mofi uses digitisation what is the point in buying vinyl? Why not just listen to the mofi digitised file via a mainstream format. What does the whole expensive vinyl manufacturing chain add to the music if the master is not analogue? Isn't this why people are upset? Your contention has been that analogue is better than digital, but it seems now you are there are caveats, saying that is frequently impractical and sometimes inferior, with analogue being on balance better in, buy difficult to achieve ideal circumstances.
That's the problem, people spending lots of money 💰 thinking their getting all analogue chain! Sometimes digital is necessary , I get it! And it can sound really good (although still not as good as tape imho), but when your charging a premium it's best to be upfront! And please put the blame where it belongs, to the guys in the front office (PR ect.)!
Hi Michael, please don’t cover up for the MoFi engineers. Shawn Britton claimed on video in 2017 that they’re records were ALL ANALOG. It’s not just the marketing people that lied.
So is the mono Dylan box from digital files? Thought that set was cut from analog.
Thank you. Of all the participants in the high end audio realm, I have the highest respect for you and your work; I’ve been following to one degree or another for decades.
I am old enough (just a couple of years younger than you ;) ) to remember Watergate “in real time”/as it happened and completely agree that the cover up is worse than the crime. In the audio *entertainment* world, this is hardly a blip, at least if one cares more about musical enjoyment than process. What happened in US politics in the recent past (and the cover-up is still ongoing) makes this kerfuffle a playground dispute. As Steven Rochlin says, *Enjoy the Music*
It’s Subway tuna all over again.
EPIC!!!! (love the tidbit of info. re. Michael 45rpm) So glad you made such a forceful point about the major labels no longer releasing master tapes.( I consider myself to have lived through the golden age of reissue vinyl from Classic Records, AP, Impex etc.) Life is going to seem so empty without all these dramatic revelations and ensuing videos..... Seriously though, the silence from the top brass at MoFi has been deafening.
Sticking it to the MAN .
Thank you masking this video. Transparency is the key issue here. I remember when cd’s first came out they would say AAD, ADD etc. I remember people complaining about not having pure digital recording but at least we knew. MOFI should come clean and list how the recordings were made and in all future records have those details printed clearly on every record. The worst thing that MOFI can do is bury their head in the sand and not come clean to those who purchase their records.
The Beatles In Mono vinyl box set 2014 got a digital treatment as they mentioned in leaflet for Please Please Me. Thus, this is not an analog mastering at all. Don't be fooled by the name. All the vinyl purists have been exposed as a bunch of liars.
There's gotta be a class action lawsuit. They lied and got over on a lot of people. No way they get out clean from this.
GET'M Mikey-go for the throat- Grrrr
Excellent video 👍🏻👍🏻
Every time there's some type of debacle in the world, a name is assigned to it. It's usually something that ends in "gate" (referring to Watergate). What is this controversy called? Digigate? Dacgate? Mofigate? With all the Michaels involved, maybe Mikegate?
(I love the Elvis Costello LP in the background.) I am sooooooo glad you took this firm stance against MF. I thought you might just shrug out of a sense of fatalism and practicality. (You know, you can't fight City Hall). Thank you, Michael. Thank you. I listen to records for one reason- the analog sound.
Q: Are there any forensic tools that could be used by an independent party to verify if a record is made from a digital source?
PS: I LOVED the conversation you had with "German" Michael! Please do more. When you do your own videos, we get the kind of Uncle Mikey version of yourself. As a guest with Ludwig it's much more apparent what an intelligent, erudite guy you are.
Good vids, and you've called them out well. As I've pointed out elsewhere, when Blue Note did the 75th anniversary vinyl releases, and Apple the 2009 stereo LP releases, they told us up front that they were cut from digital. It matters to us, and if people want to debate our foolishness about that, fine. But if you know that about vinyl purists and then mislead us...well, let's see what happens.
Michael, MoFi engineer Shawn K. Britton is on video saying they use an all analog mastering chain. In 2017. Clearly lying!
The sad part is "journalists" havent managed to get this information before now with their elite question taking skills.
Michael, I loved the #gofundme idea but thinking a bit further about this I guess that we would pay for it anyway. Imagine if they released BOTH versions (cut from a tape transfer and from a digital transfer). We would go crazy to buy both versions of each release because that’s what we do… We would spend endless hours discussing each version and each review. We would agree and disagree with your thoughts and some would say how they got digital wrong when analog sounded better, while others would say how they had some issue with their Studer when the DSD killed the analog version. Its a win-win for everybody including MoFi because they would make even more money with full disclosure and transparency. I better start saving because now there’ll be not only mono and stereo but also digital and analog 😂
The cover up is worse than the crime !! Absolutely. Great vid Michael 👍
19:50 exactly! Can you imagine the fun to be had in comparing the Mofi AAA Bitches Brew to a Mofi One-Step Bitches Brew!!
Thank you for your video. I would like to focus on the old vs the new Mofi cut processes and its impact on vinyl comunity.
We all agree that a Mofi "original master recording" is and should be a process where MOFI gets its hands on the original master, not on an unknown copy of that master. The DSD MOFI which is using is an added, new step, within the MOFI cutting process of Original Master Tape system. The DSD copy is then becomes a (ultra hi res digital) second generation source within the Mofi cutting process. should that be the only modification for Mofi cutting process than yes, it would be a degraded Vinyl cut process comparing with MOFI original Legacy cutting system.
However, Mofi takes advantage on this added step to actually reduce the total number of degradating copying steps from the whole cutting process as per the following:
1) Original Mofi ( and other companies) AAA Process steps are:
Step 1: master tape to lacquer (a 2nd generation analogue mechanical copy of the master is generated into the laquer)
Step 2: lacquer to Father stamper (a 3rd Generation analoge mechanical copy is generated )
Step 3: Father Stamper is copied to be Mother mold (a 4th generation analoge copy is generated)
Step 4: a Stamper is copied from mother (a 5th Generation mechanical analoge)
Step 5: Vinyl Stamping (a 6th generation final analoge copy is pressed on vinyl)
to summarize AAA process: A vinyl recording is the 6th analoge generation copy of the original master tape
2) MOFI "1 step process" comprise of the following steps:
Step 1: Master Tape to DSD (a 2nd generation Dsd version of original master is created)
Step 2: DSD to Lacquer (a 3rd mechanical analoge Generation)
Step 3: Lacquer to Stamper (a 4th analoge Generation)
Step 4: Vinyl Stamping (a final 5th generation which contains only 4th analoge generations copy of the master )
To summarize: MOFI single step process results in a 5 generation copy of original master recording rwhere 2 analogue mechanical copies of the sound are replaced by a single DSD copy . DSD copy of original master is to my understanding a much closer to original master quality (if not identical) than to any 2nd generation analogue copy alternatives availabe.
1) This is to my opinion a significant over all advantage to the cutting process
2) The Elephant in the room: The DSD step which contains a 2nd generation copy of original master is by definition a supirior version in compare witg the vinyl outcome which is a 5th ( practically 4th) generation copy of the original master tape.
This means that the best posible reproduction quality can be obtain by a direct use of the DSD via streaming or a SACD platformd.
Thanks and best regards
No, the EITR is, not informing people when you’re not using Analog, but instead digital.
Yes but…. If it’s DSD then it’s best to just sell DSD files and not degrade the audio with the record making process you described.
@@mikepapas9395
You are correct, this is what I am reffering to as "the elephant in the room".
However, I am not sure to how much the rights owners of original masters are willing to let a 1÷1 copy of their master to circulate freely within the internet.
On my point of view I would be happy to have a 96/24 resolution of original master than any vinyl copy of that master. But I would prefer a proven great vinyl press copy of that master rather than any best quality cd copy of that master.
That were impressive and best founded arguments and statements for the theme of the year. Congratulation Michael
I know the doors boxsets have the plangent work. And I think its a great way to go w digital.
The Doors box set digital/Plangent does sound great as does the all analog from AP. Different but equally great but best of all you know what you are getting.
Very good and fair video, Michael.
Extremely fair video Michael. Always great to watch you when you are objective.
One question: Assuming a dac is interposed between the dsd file the Ultra analog mastering chain, does it matter if it is a native dsd dac vs one that can only handle pcm?
Regarding promo copies, I know you are not alone and only “part of the system”, but do you not think it is a bad system that creates conflicts of interest and skews incentives, even if unintentionally? In corporate jobs, we are repeatedly given ethics trainings where we are told not to accept or give any gifts that can create conflict of interest or even give an appearance of one. It is a harsh, but fair standard that I wish your industry would adopt.
This was a fair video Michael. I see now why you did what you did. You're not the culprit here. MoFi is.
The thing I don't relate to with audiophiles is I think it's a little crazy to have the desire to pay to hear, as Fremer suggests at the end, the difference between using a DSD step and not using it. I will concede that on a very high-quality system you *might* hear a *small* difference, but I could really care less (this is all assuming I'm not paying over say $40 for either product at the end of the day btw).