POE FAN COMMUNITY MEETUP COLOGNE 23RD OF AUGUST (during gamescom) www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1epfuhm/path_of_exile_community_meetup_cologne_23rd_of/ discord.com/invite/WUhMFk43?event=1271244783565799465
@Catmaster you have to fix your audio man. You're always very low vs your guests. I raise my volume to hear you and then get ear raped when others speak.
I never thought anyone could get Aris to do a podcast but apparently all it took was for Denipon to show up Not like you could blame him anyway Thanks for the podcast people
He is, and has an interesting and valuable POV, but he was frequently interjecting with generic agreement statements and trying to host almost at times. He means well but needs to chill a bit and go with the flow. It's hard for streamers who are used to filling dead air to let the conversation happen naturally. Deni's Kitava volume chuckle when nothing funny has happened is the same sort of thing.
Aris is saying if they take longer to disenchant then he can earn gold while they are disenchanting over that duration to cover the cost. However balor is saying they are both going to use the same amount of gold at the end of the day. Both are true just one is looking at it as total cost and the other is looking at it as I can earn while they are working to cover over the duration. Also this fight was funny lol
@@HeatIIEXTEND Didn't really believe you but did the math and the difference is kind of nothing. I put in an Oro's Sacrifice a level 7 follow that cost 535 gold per hour would spend 27 mins 27 seconds to handle the work or .15 gold per second so that is 247.05 gold to break down the sword. While a level 10 that cost 1,410 gold per hour and he needs 11 mins 46 seconds or .39 gold person with a total cost of 275.34 gold to break down the item. So with the massive range in follow cost this statement could be true or false really but on average I'm guessing the lower tiers will be more cost effective but not time effective. The difference still comes down to basically 1 small pile of gold being walked past instead of worked over. Also just did the math on a full load out of rank 10s and it was 1 min 55 seconds at a cost of 266.8 gold to break it down.
I use both kbm with inventory management and map with a controller. Auto detect setting and relog. Click the screen with the mouse or just move the joystick and it swaps. I quite enjoy it. Wish relogging wasn't necessary
The disenchanting discussion was pretty funny. I like Balor, but he was a bit too condescending. He was entirely right for the actual time spent disenchanting. But FINDING the disenchanters themselves DOES have a cost for anyone on limited gold, that he is not seeing because he has plenty of excess gold. You have to spend your gold to reroll your recruits to find those level 10 disenchanters. That reroll gold is a cost. Even just accepting a Level 10 Disenchanter when it comes up when looking for something else is going to them slow down when you get that other thing, if thats a farmer or shipper you are going to notice the difference so much more.
It was frustrating not hearing balor try to explain himself in another way. They both kept repeating themselves and talking past eachother. Balor could have explained it differently, like saying that the cost per dust is the same, but a lower level settler will just take longer to break items into dust, gold cost in the end is the same. However, I'm not even sure that's technically true, because there might be some diminishing returns in terms of efficiency on higher tier workers, and there's even variance of gold cost efficiency between workers of the same tier.
I have to clear up the MISCONCEPTION that having lower level workers such as miners or disenchanters will save you money. Math doesn't work like that. Each Level increases the speed or production rate by 30% (you can test this by getting a lvl 9 and lvl 10 worker to do the same job) The cost of the workers goes up by about 15% per level (this can vary a lot but on average it is about 10-20%) Example: Level 9 worker that costs 100g/h can finish a job in 10h = 1000 gold Level 10 worker that costs 120g/h can finish the same job in 7h = 840 gold Even if the LVL10 worker costs 40% more than a lvl 9 you still SAVE MONEY! Level 10 worker that costs 140g/h can finish the job in 7h = 980 gold HIGHER LEVEL IS CHEAPER AND FASTER!!!!
@@jerrywesterby1480 I agree, What I meant was that it was so obvious that Balor is right that it was stupid to even discuss it. (I cant believe we had to discuss something so obvious)
The cost is the same in the end but if you have limited gold and plenty dust you might just use lower level enchanters so they don’t gobble up all the treasury fast and stop the rest of the workers, that was his point
@@peewee9037 But that argument is simply wrong - using lower level enchanters is more costly than higher level enchanters (disregarding the aquisition costs of the disenchanters). The correct solution here is to simply put fewer items in the disenchanter.
I actually suspect the renaming of Raider to Warden is because of POE2. We know they are moving around some of the ascendancies so I bet they want to attached the name "Raider" to one of the Marauder/Warrior options instead of Ranger/Huntress. Watch 1 more minute and yall contemplate basically the same thing lol
Gold per second is not the same as net gold. Optimizing your resource flow so that it is being spent on things that are important to you and not prioritizing things like dust when you aren't spending it is a smart thing to do when resources are tight. It is simply a matter of identifying a bottleneck and limiting production of that thing so that your resources are balanced. When you have excess income and resources, then yes, investing into production of each thing is worth doing because then, time is the thing that is bottlenecking your progress. But early on, time is WAAAAAAY less expensive than gold or resources. When you're broke af, you'll spend extra time walking or w/e to avoid paying for an uber. That's because your time is less valuable than the $15 it costs for the uber. However, when you actually have ways to make money, all of the sudden, it's worth to pay the uber cost because each hour of your time is worth more. Idk if you were aware of what he was saying or not.
So the argument at about 2 hours neither one of them established that it's cheaper to have high tier disenchanter disenchant quickly and then be inactive then it is to have low tier disenchantress steadily making progress and for that argument to have a point you have to establish both of those facts it's also the case that you could have a low-cost disenchanter working while you sleep while a high-level disenchanter would burn through all your gold and stop your Farmers halfway through the night
I am eris's low-cost disenchanter use case and once again Baylor mage fails to understand the problem from the perspective of an average player who wants their Farmers to continue working all night while they're asleep instead of running out of gold due to a high expensive disenchanter and Baylor comes across yet again as a douchey elitist unlikable person as is tradition
Baylor lives in a world where people don't have jobs where their friends or family don't call them up out of the blue and need their help or have commitments otherwise and you can just you know sit there and minmax your disenchanter meanwhile most of us need our stuff to run for a few hours because we might not be at the keyboard for an entire day sorry hun I can't pick up the kids because my town is going to run out of gold because I have tier 10 workers at every position because Baylor mage says there's no reason to have low-cost workers
Recombs are not back to full power but are very strong again. We've done a bunch of testing in our group found setting and there doesn't seem to be any bias against transferring mods based on weight anymore. We've made a bunch of t1 prefix weapons, transferred temple mods onto good bases and smashed them with t1 life and res mods.
Yeah I'm trying to listen at work in the server room with noise cancelling headphones and Deni is absolutely blasting my ears out and I can hardly understand Balor and Cat. Far more than 3x louder.
That time/gold thing was hilarious, Aris won. Higher tiers are less efficient and you have to spam recruit for high tiers (can grind through gold quick). This Balor guy is dumb and thinks he's smart, it's the best xd
Balor's arguement made me remember a joke about a corporate manager wanting to have a baby born in 1 month with 9 women than 1 woman in 9 months. Some of us would rather have a lower gold cost per hour than higher dust generation per hour to have time farming for their wages.
And who exactly forces you to put items in the disenchanter? Just put the number you can afford and your total cost will be the same - it will just be done quicker.
@@jerrywesterby1480 so you want me to micro manage the town further? aint no one got time for that. id rather be killing mobs and keep putting items in the disenchanter so they can keep on working in the gold cost i can handle
saying "i love the small ssf like feeling the small market for console players bring" while say 2 mins later "ohhh i would love if they merge console and pc trade" XD w00t?
I mean Aris was 100% right imagine a loan you can take a 10000 gold loan for 12 months or 36 months both 0 interesest , if you can afford to pay it quick and are rich enough you could even pay it in 6 months , but if u are a casual the 36 month one will make you not fall behind on payments ! Hope that makes sense!
I feel like this is the rich kid argument, sure if you have gold coming out your ears you do balors way. But he's also probably got practically infinite stash tags to hold all the trash uniques he's picking up to feed the disenchanters. Theres also the cost rolling the workers All I know is I already have a crap ton of dust so getting maxed out workers on my disenchanter is probably the last thing I'm doing, everything else has more priority. Balors right but until you have a town that's fully primed and firing on all cylinders you dont want shipments stopping and farmers not working cause your gold ran out paying your disenchanters. For the longest time I was loadng up my disenchanter with uniques overnight with one dude on it, by the time I logged in again he was done. Workers are not worth the same per hour.. id prioritize farners. I see where aris is coming from
Aris missed the point. If he wants to disenchant one item, suppose it costs 1k gold. Balor will do it in one minute at 60k per hour, whereas Aris will do it in one hour at 1k per hour. They both cost the same amount of money (because even though Balor has a higher cost per hour, he only runs the disenchanting for one minute, not the whole hour).
@@Joulespersecond OR like aris is saying. You can figure out how much dust you need pre hour and not have to worry about them TAKING TOO MUCH GOLD PER HOUR so you run out of gold andd your other stuff can't run. Balor's way takes micrfo management. Balor is just stuck in this frame of mind.
@@noneyabusiness5455 It's amazing how many people don't understand this - it's the same gold per hour, assuming you have the same number of items. The irony is that Aris is stuck in his frame of mind, where he only thinks in gold per hour. The amount of gold used is entirely dependent on the items in the disenchanting window. Don't have enough gold? Take the items out of the disenchanting window.
Every time I think I’m going to listen to a podcast about poe2 I get disappointed cause they spend most of it talking about 1. Fyi I don’t care about poe1 cause
So funny he just tries to argue a point for his ego instead of understanding exactly what Aris said, Just trying so hard to be right and not just understanding at all.
Not sure i like Aris on here, His game knowledge and awareness of the community at large seemed suspect, and felt like he just came on to argue about how superior console is.
@@cabal123123123 I wouldn't mind the perspective if he didn't come off so combative, This is coming from somebody who plays on both console and PC too.
Don't know why but Aris is insufferable, disagreed with most of his takes, not understanding the basics of what balor was talking about says enough to me about his simple lack of knowledge.
POE FAN COMMUNITY MEETUP COLOGNE 23RD OF AUGUST (during gamescom)
www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1epfuhm/path_of_exile_community_meetup_cologne_23rd_of/
discord.com/invite/WUhMFk43?event=1271244783565799465
@Catmaster you have to fix your audio man. You're always very low vs your guests. I raise my volume to hear you and then get ear raped when others speak.
Petition to bring back Aris again. He was a huge breath of fresh air
Fuck that guy. He is notorious for harassing women in the FGC.
That Gold per disenchanter discussion was hard to watch tho
I agree, both guests were awesome
I never thought anyone could get Aris to do a podcast but apparently all it took was for Denipon to show up
Not like you could blame him anyway
Thanks for the podcast people
Console guy is entertaining. Should have him on more.
Fuck that guy. He is notorious for harassing women in the FGC.
He is, and has an interesting and valuable POV, but he was frequently interjecting with generic agreement statements and trying to host almost at times. He means well but needs to chill a bit and go with the flow. It's hard for streamers who are used to filling dead air to let the conversation happen naturally. Deni's Kitava volume chuckle when nothing funny has happened is the same sort of thing.
Hey alright
i love how cat is slaying more and more, cool to see social people grow
Nice to see Aris on the podcast!
Fuck that guy. He is notorious for harassing women in the FGC.
town is perfect for early and mid game, and currency exchange is perfect for end game. perfect balance
Really like a console guy is here! Ty Aris
Fuck that guy. He is notorious for harassing women in the FGC.
Aris is saying if they take longer to disenchant then he can earn gold while they are disenchanting over that duration to cover the cost. However balor is saying they are both going to use the same amount of gold at the end of the day. Both are true just one is looking at it as total cost and the other is looking at it as I can earn while they are working to cover over the duration.
Also this fight was funny lol
Yeah bring back Aris!
Balor is not counting the spam cost for high tiers and lower tiers are more efficient afaik. He's plain wrong @ bottom line.
@@HeatIIEXTEND Didn't really believe you but did the math and the difference is kind of nothing. I put in an Oro's Sacrifice a level 7 follow that cost 535 gold per hour would spend 27 mins 27 seconds to handle the work or .15 gold per second so that is 247.05 gold to break down the sword. While a level 10 that cost 1,410 gold per hour and he needs 11 mins 46 seconds or .39 gold person with a total cost of 275.34 gold to break down the item. So with the massive range in follow cost this statement could be true or false really but on average I'm guessing the lower tiers will be more cost effective but not time effective. The difference still comes down to basically 1 small pile of gold being walked past instead of worked over.
Also just did the math on a full load out of rank 10s and it was 1 min 55 seconds at a cost of 266.8 gold to break it down.
@@voodoo1069 haha nice, but there is also the recruit spam which can get hefty quick.
@@HeatIIEXTEND True but you kind of just passively get them on the hunt for shippers and mappers since those shitters die every couple of hours. lol
9:41 Zack Fox reference lmao
I use both kbm with inventory management and map with a controller. Auto detect setting and relog. Click the screen with the mouse or just move the joystick and it swaps. I quite enjoy it. Wish relogging wasn't necessary
The disenchanting discussion was pretty funny. I like Balor, but he was a bit too condescending. He was entirely right for the actual time spent disenchanting.
But FINDING the disenchanters themselves DOES have a cost for anyone on limited gold, that he is not seeing because he has plenty of excess gold. You have to spend your gold to reroll your recruits to find those level 10 disenchanters. That reroll gold is a cost. Even just accepting a Level 10 Disenchanter when it comes up when looking for something else is going to them slow down when you get that other thing, if thats a farmer or shipper you are going to notice the difference so much more.
It was frustrating not hearing balor try to explain himself in another way. They both kept repeating themselves and talking past eachother. Balor could have explained it differently, like saying that the cost per dust is the same, but a lower level settler will just take longer to break items into dust, gold cost in the end is the same. However, I'm not even sure that's technically true, because there might be some diminishing returns in terms of efficiency on higher tier workers, and there's even variance of gold cost efficiency between workers of the same tier.
Great stream. Thanks to all involved.
I have to clear up the MISCONCEPTION that having lower level workers such as miners or disenchanters will save you money. Math doesn't work like that. Each Level increases the speed or production rate by 30% (you can test this by getting a lvl 9 and lvl 10 worker to do the same job)
The cost of the workers goes up by about 15% per level (this can vary a lot but on average it is about 10-20%)
Example:
Level 9 worker that costs 100g/h can finish a job in 10h = 1000 gold
Level 10 worker that costs 120g/h can finish the same job in 7h = 840 gold
Even if the LVL10 worker costs 40% more than a lvl 9 you still SAVE MONEY!
Level 10 worker that costs 140g/h can finish the job in 7h = 980 gold
HIGHER LEVEL IS CHEAPER AND FASTER!!!!
And the second part of the argument, the number of workers, Balor is 100% right. I don't believe this was even a discussion.
@@Vepar90 It was a discussion, but it shouldn't have been.
Balor was categorically right and Aris was categorically wrong.
@@jerrywesterby1480 I agree, What I meant was that it was so obvious that Balor is right that it was stupid to even discuss it. (I cant believe we had to discuss something so obvious)
The cost is the same in the end but if you have limited gold and plenty dust you might just use lower level enchanters so they don’t gobble up all the treasury fast and stop the rest of the workers, that was his point
@@peewee9037 But that argument is simply wrong - using lower level enchanters is more costly than higher level enchanters (disregarding the aquisition costs of the disenchanters).
The correct solution here is to simply put fewer items in the disenchanter.
was fun , thanks guys ^^
I actually suspect the renaming of Raider to Warden is because of POE2. We know they are moving around some of the ascendancies so I bet they want to attached the name "Raider" to one of the Marauder/Warrior options instead of Ranger/Huntress.
Watch 1 more minute and yall contemplate basically the same thing lol
Gold per second is not the same as net gold. Optimizing your resource flow so that it is being spent on things that are important to you and not prioritizing things like dust when you aren't spending it is a smart thing to do when resources are tight. It is simply a matter of identifying a bottleneck and limiting production of that thing so that your resources are balanced. When you have excess income and resources, then yes, investing into production of each thing is worth doing because then, time is the thing that is bottlenecking your progress. But early on, time is WAAAAAAY less expensive than gold or resources. When you're broke af, you'll spend extra time walking or w/e to avoid paying for an uber. That's because your time is less valuable than the $15 it costs for the uber. However, when you actually have ways to make money, all of the sudden, it's worth to pay the uber cost because each hour of your time is worth more.
Idk if you were aware of what he was saying or not.
Great explanation
And that's were Balor's correct response was "Then you don't put an item in the disenchanter..."
@@jerrywesterby1480 why add extra micromanagement for yourself. Just set the g/hr rate you want and never worry about it.
I enjoyed this one way more that I expected to (sadly was not able to catch it live this time around). It was hilarious at certain points. 😎
wait a second IT'S THE GREEN GUY
So the argument at about 2 hours neither one of them established that it's cheaper to have high tier disenchanter disenchant quickly and then be inactive then it is to have low tier disenchantress steadily making progress and for that argument to have a point you have to establish both of those facts it's also the case that you could have a low-cost disenchanter working while you sleep while a high-level disenchanter would burn through all your gold and stop your Farmers halfway through the night
I am eris's low-cost disenchanter use case and once again Baylor mage fails to understand the problem from the perspective of an average player who wants their Farmers to continue working all night while they're asleep instead of running out of gold due to a high expensive disenchanter and Baylor comes across yet again as a douchey elitist unlikable person as is tradition
Good talk.
I was not expecting aris holy shit what a podcast
Fuck that guy. He is notorious for harassing women in the FGC.
Great Podcast
always good to see AtP and Cat, the others nah
Aris shows a more advanced understanding of calculus than Balor here.
Baylor lives in a world where people don't have jobs where their friends or family don't call them up out of the blue and need their help or have commitments otherwise and you can just you know sit there and minmax your disenchanter meanwhile most of us need our stuff to run for a few hours because we might not be at the keyboard for an entire day sorry hun I can't pick up the kids because my town is going to run out of gold because I have tier 10 workers at every position because Baylor mage says there's no reason to have low-cost workers
So good to see another arpg enthusiast in Aris who also has a passion for fighting games.. Feels like we are a rare breed....
Hands down one of my favorite combos so far in an episode. These 4 made for really fun conversation.
53:53 We french kissing? 😳
Recombs are not back to full power but are very strong again. We've done a bunch of testing in our group found setting and there doesn't seem to be any bias against transferring mods based on weight anymore. We've made a bunch of t1 prefix weapons, transferred temple mods onto good bases and smashed them with t1 life and res mods.
I personally think Aris is super funny, my own opinion of course.
Fuck that guy. He is notorious for harassing women in the FGC.
How in the world did you convince Aris to talk about video games? He hates em! TEKKEN really changes a man
Great podcast. hope denipon and avoidingthepuddle come on again!
WOOOOOOO Lord Aris
Fuck that guy. He is notorious for harassing women in the FGC.
^ this chick is mad aris didn't hit on her.
Denipon is legit like 2-3x the volume of everyone else on the cast it seems -- past that, loved the cast
Yeah I'm trying to listen at work in the server room with noise cancelling headphones and Deni is absolutely blasting my ears out and I can hardly understand Balor and Cat. Far more than 3x louder.
Really? I am on headphones and she sounds fine.
@@makawow you probably have some automatic volume levelling switched on.
Great show, loved the console discussion
That time/gold thing was hilarious, Aris won. Higher tiers are less efficient and you have to spam recruit for high tiers (can grind through gold quick). This Balor guy is dumb and thinks he's smart, it's the best xd
That wasn't the scenario so no. It was specified they would scale proportionally.
Sorry mate, but you're the one that's wrong as higher tier people are more efficient than lower tier (see the calculation from Vepar90 earlier on).
Balor's arguement made me remember a joke about a corporate manager wanting to have a baby born in 1 month with 9 women than 1 woman in 9 months. Some of us would rather have a lower gold cost per hour than higher dust generation per hour to have time farming for their wages.
And who exactly forces you to put items in the disenchanter?
Just put the number you can afford and your total cost will be the same - it will just be done quicker.
@@jerrywesterby1480 so you want me to micro manage the town further? aint no one got time for that. id rather be killing mobs and keep putting items in the disenchanter so they can keep on working in the gold cost i can handle
Catmaster looks so confused, does he even play the game?
saying "i love the small ssf like feeling the small market for console players bring" while say 2 mins later "ohhh i would love if they merge console and pc trade" XD w00t?
“Im crashing into white owned businesses all day” is crazy
I mean Aris was 100% right imagine a loan you can take a 10000 gold loan for 12 months or 36 months both 0 interesest , if you can afford to pay it quick and are rich enough you could even pay it in 6 months , but if u are a casual the 36 month one will make you not fall behind on payments ! Hope that makes sense!
Incorrect
I feel like this is the rich kid argument, sure if you have gold coming out your ears you do balors way. But he's also probably got practically infinite stash tags to hold all the trash uniques he's picking up to feed the disenchanters. Theres also the cost rolling the workers All I know is I already have a crap ton of dust so getting maxed out workers on my disenchanter is probably the last thing I'm doing, everything else has more priority. Balors right but until you have a town that's fully primed and firing on all cylinders you dont want shipments stopping and farmers not working cause your gold ran out paying your disenchanters. For the longest time I was loadng up my disenchanter with uniques overnight with one dude on it, by the time I logged in again he was done. Workers are not worth the same per hour.. id prioritize farners. I see where aris is coming from
Aris missed the point. If he wants to disenchant one item, suppose it costs 1k gold. Balor will do it in one minute at 60k per hour, whereas Aris will do it in one hour at 1k per hour. They both cost the same amount of money (because even though Balor has a higher cost per hour, he only runs the disenchanting for one minute, not the whole hour).
@@Joulespersecond OR like aris is saying. You can figure out how much dust you need pre hour and not have to worry about them TAKING TOO MUCH GOLD PER HOUR so you run out of gold andd your other stuff can't run. Balor's way takes micrfo management. Balor is just stuck in this frame of mind.
@@noneyabusiness5455 It's amazing how many people don't understand this - it's the same gold per hour, assuming you have the same number of items.
The irony is that Aris is stuck in his frame of mind, where he only thinks in gold per hour. The amount of gold used is entirely dependent on the items in the disenchanting window. Don't have enough gold? Take the items out of the disenchanting window.
DAMN EARs when DEni talks she is too loud or you are too silent but damn :)
Balor is 100% wrong on the mining rate thing
Every time I think I’m going to listen to a podcast about poe2 I get disappointed cause they spend most of it talking about 1. Fyi I don’t care about poe1 cause
Yea the plan was to get together and talk about the gameplay demo we played in LA but we kinda derailed it into PoE1 :'D
balormage, least likeable poe streamer. really lame human.
So funny he just tries to argue a point for his ego instead of understanding exactly what Aris said, Just trying so hard to be right and not just understanding at all.
Enjoyed these guests, except when Aris didn't understand math. #balorwasright
Not sure i like Aris on here, His game knowledge and awareness of the community at large seemed suspect, and felt like he just came on to argue about how superior console is.
Is still a good perspective 👍
@@cabal123123123 Fuck that guy. He is notorious for harassing women in the FGC.
@@cabal123123123 I wouldn't mind the perspective if he didn't come off so combative, This is coming from somebody who plays on both console and PC too.
Don't know why but Aris is insufferable, disagreed with most of his takes, not understanding the basics of what balor was talking about says enough to me about his simple lack of knowledge.
Who cares bro just have fun nerd