The Kingkiller Chronicle | Denna - A Character Study
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- Опубликовано: 21 ноя 2020
- This video contains spoilers for The Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss.
Love her or hate her, Denna has had a massive impact on the story. But who is she and what is her role going forward?
The wonderful thumbnail art is "Denna" by emmgoyer7
www.deviantart.com/emmgoyer7/...
Huge thanks to these amazing artists.
'Doors of Stone' by That Summers Guy
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Kingkiller: Denna by Izzu-shi
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Red Wine by Mandy Jurgens
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Abenthy's Cart by Chillalord
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The University by Marc Simonetti
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Stars by Marc Simonetti
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At The Eolian by dejan-delic
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Eolian by Marc Simonetti
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Denna by Julia Maddalina
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Kvothe and Denna by Gretlusky
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Name of the Wind - Kvothe, Denna by leabharlann
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Denna by Dan Dos Santos
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Kvothe and Denna - The Name of the Wind by ClaireAdele
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Auri and Kvothe by Manweri
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Stolen Moments by Gal Or
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Revive the Breathless by Gal Or
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Bast by Manweri
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Denna by AlyaW
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Kvothe and Denna - Name of wind by Chibi-Rina
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Rothfuss in 2014 by Kyle Cassidy
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Kvothe by bablar
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Denna by aschmit
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Denna at night by lemonade8
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Draccus by Marc Simonetti
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Trebon Vase by Anastassia Grigorieva
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The Chandrian by Marc Simonetti
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Master Ash by dejan-delic
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Cinder by by jameszapata
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Kvothe by Kurogane-sensei
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Kvothe meets Haliax - Name of the Wind by BradSuttonArt
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Draccus by dejan-delic
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Kvothe and Denna by FabioAlencarArt
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Kvothe and Denna by Arbetta
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Amyr Ciridae by Nathan Taylor
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Playing Cards deck seal by Shane Tyree (Albino Dragon)
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Cinder by dejan-delic
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Denna by AmyWinterbreeze
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Denna, Ring, Harp by Julia Maddalina
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Lanre by emmgoyer7
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Denna by abbey-tex-johnson
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Looking for Denna 2.0 by GungHoGrimm
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How I imagine Denna by u/adabi1414
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Denna by MartAiConan
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The Doors of Stone fan made cover by Kernel's Corner
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Denna in the circle of Selas by AkasunaJune
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Music:
Strange the Dreamer by Savfk
/ @savfkmusic
Lightless Dawn by Kevin MacLeod
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Beautiful and Mysterious by Ross Bugden
• ♩♫ Beautiful and Myst...
llusory Realm by Darren Curtis
• Free Abstract Dream Mu... 
Развлечения
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2068? Ah I see you’re an optimist!
Yes!
😂😂😂
@@IrishCollegeGirl I second that
Just some years before cyberpunk finally launch
@@hahaimout1693 Yeah, something like that
Holy s***, i started reading Kingkiller chronicle in 2020, so i didn't realize how long some of you guys have been waiting for a new book...
I think we'll get it in this decade.
I wish I was being sarcastic. 😂
I finished yesterday,haha
Welcome to to club
*Everyone chants* one of us, one of us, one of us
I just finished NotW yesterday despite being told to read it back in 2017, I just bought WMF today
Been waiting over half a decade... *insert "Still waiting..." meme*
I had drink in my mouth when you said 2068...it came out my nose lol
I admittedly didn't see the issue with Denna (at least beyond concern for Kvothe's ideation of her). However given her parallels to Kvothe I would not be shocked if her thoughts of their interactions was much the same as Kvothe's. I remember reading once, "We often judge others by their actions and ourselves by our intentions". I think we give Kvothe this same leeway at times since we are privy to his thoughts. Anyway, I think you did a great job on this video, thank you for it.
Good point there. Kvothe does things that could be criticized sometimes, but we let it pass because we read his pov. But if denna does exactly the same it’s not understood
Yeah, kvothe is not perfect either and critic on him beeing stupid at times, or arrogant, or what ever realy is legit even if you like him. He is even if incrediable talented a realistic human beeing and therefore flawed and it is a realy personal thing if those flawes make someone relatable in your eyes, or annoying.
I do not like Denna for I do not like unhealthy loveinteresst that are framed positivly, the oh so tradgic lovestory everyone evyes is a thing that makes me want to puke . . . Realy, I prefere what they did to Jaime and Cercei in that regard, twisted, unhappy and very clear that there is no happy end to achive. Even if it is bitter and I would have wished Jaime a happy end, it does not annoy me half as much as twilight, romeo and Juliet, or what Denna looks like. I pray it gets subverted later on.
Aside from my main problem of her beeing "the loveinteresst" she has many trades I dislike which might not be as bad isolated, but realy displease me on a new other level in their combination. Sadly I have not crystalised out jet, what makes her so unlikeable to me. A bit of it the utter repulsion towards playing with other peoples feelings and the fear that I might do something similar without intending to. I do not have the best opinion on golddiging but if her aproach would be different, I would be be able to look past that. I do not like dirty jokeing and I love Deadpool still . . .
She is not realy a worse character, but the focus of beeing the loveinterest really gets her an unfavorable focus. We are moreso told she is oh so great by kvothe idealising her, than that we get to see her beeing great and beeing told you have to like someone often creats the opposite reaction
That’s how I feel as well.
Me too. I could just imagine her feelings when she sees him with Fela soon after he stood her up, l imagine she knows he saw her and didn't go after her.
@@SingingSealRiana Do you ever think maybe the negatives you see from her are just misinterpretations from Kvothe? He loves her despite these things but most are just assumptions from his POV and honestly are a reflection of how he acts and uses people. The theory that she's training to be an Amyr honestly makes the most sense. But even if how he talks about her is true so what? Nothing she does is worse than Kvothe and she at least admits fault and she doesn't ask for him to treat her any way. In fact she says she doesn't deserve to be treated well by him.
I personally love Denna. I have just always trusted that later we would learn all the whys behind her behaviors.
At this point, I don't think any amount of "why" can excuse her.
@@AlbinosaurusR3X I'm sure a lot of people feel the way you do.
@@AlbinosaurusR3X like with kvothe we know most of the why and it barely if at all helps his case
All I want to say is, is that I love the dynamic between Denna and Kvothe. I think it beautifully illustrates the complications of real world romance in terms of complications and the idea of infatuation (on Kvothes part, in, like you said of not acknowledging Dennas flaws etc). I think it brings the whole story a wonderful, real, human element. I just want to where the bloody arc will go - like the rest of us...
Here's my take on Denna. We're supposed to see her as someone who has flaws and can be manipulative. But we also see her from Kvothe's perspective and he loves her with a young innocent love that many readers make fun of. It's actually a really tragic dynamic. Denna has been through a lot and has become hard. Kvothe loves her even after discovering her many flaws. There's a line in TNOTW that goes something like this, "Anyone can love a thing 'because', that's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket. But to love something in spite of! To see the flaws and love them too, that is beautiful and rare and perfect!" I think this line can be applied to Denna and Kvothe.
I honestly think the flaws are projected by Kvothe a bit as well though. Especially if some theories are correct.
I think Kvothe's line of loving someone in spite of their flaws is actually supposed to show us how naive he is. Kvothe has said that Deena is cruel. He knows this. And if he were truly wise, he would know that this is not someone to love. It would be like loving an abuser - a mistake. But he is young and in the throes of puppy love and thus thinks that true love should ignore reality.
He misses how many times she tells him that she loves him. “Seven words” means he said something that touched her deeply and made her fall in love but he ignorantly (or on purpose) disregards this.
She said her seven words were "I was just wondering why you're here."
"In 2068" that made me laugh 😂
Btw I like Denna, though I also had my troubles with her, but that explanation from the Eolian owner made a lot of sense and she is indeed realistic and interesting. Great video once again :D
I paused it too! I almost thought for a fleeting moment when he said "when doors of stone is released in" that he was gonna have an actual date I hadn't realized was announced then I busted out laughing
@@brendanbartko2485 same, I thought he was gonna say 2025 or sth 😂
I nearly choked on my dinner. He said it so casually.
its been confirmed: 2068
It’s both bitter and beautiful that Kvothe and Denna will tell their feelings for each other to everybody but each other. Don’t most of our weaknesses come from the heart? Good characters are flawed.
Love the theory of Denna as a mirror of Qvothe! Thanks for this video, just finished rereading the two books
^^
I actually like the tragedy that is their relationship. Not many novels in fantasy fiction do that.
I think this video really overlooks dennas secret knowledge of magic and manipulations. She clearly is using yillish knots to manipulate ppl and she isn’t just showing up in key situations by accident. She isn’t remotely as innocent as you make her out to be. I’m very interested in the kinds of knowledge she is hiding.
What I don’t understand here is: why tf does Denna know yllish knots. No I mean, seriously, why?
'showing up in key situations' always wondered about it, too. also she might be dead in the present thats why kvothe talks so glamorous of her
I really hope her patron being Bredon and him being an Amyr training her is true.
@@ceciliagarcia6823It’s a great question that I feel Kvothe brushes off way too easily, Yllish is said to barely be spoken by anyone, the only person he can find who speaks it is the master linguist at the university and Denna just happens to know one of the most mysterious parts of their culture?
@@evilemuempire9550 totally! I mean, a dead mysterious language spoken by: the greatest university rector, the Amyr, and Denna? Not sus at all.
"... When Doors of Stone is released in 2068..." You slayed me. hahahaha.
I can't wait to read The Doors Of Stone in 2173
I doubt he will live that long
Can't wait for this quarantinee to end so Patrick can say he hasn´t finished doors of stone yet . Great video
2068, oh sweet summer child.
Just CONFUSED why you have only 12k subscribers
2068? Aren't we the optimist 😁. For me the reason I think so many readers scorn and take and instant, vehement dislike to Denna is because every one of us has had our own Denna. That person whose flaws we refuse to see, refuse to acknowledge even when our closest friends and family point them out and then when that person crushes us and we finally have our fantasy stripped away by the very person we practically worshipped it's a pain that stays with us for the rest of our lives. We learn to deal with it, we move beyond it, but when we catch glimpses of that person or have flashbacks of a " perfect time" for a second all of that pain comes crashing back like a razor slicing your soul and our reaction is to attack and rid ourselves of it before it can break our hearts again. With Denna, Rothfuss has given us the greatest antagonist ever, one we all know intimately, because who hasn't had their heart broken by the one we love most? Sorry for the preaching, now ad for Dennas patron am I the only one who thinks that not only are her patron and Bredon the same person, but that he is also Lanre the leader of the Chandrian? I know Cinder is a sadist but it makes more sense to me that it is Lanre playing all these parts, manipulating our heroes all so that he can play his "perfect game". Just my thoughts I truly love this series and cant wait till it concludes 300 years from now...sorry but i just cant see it being done by 2068...maybe the prologue
That was excellent dead-pan delivery on the 'release date'.
Has anyone ever thought that maybe Denna is right? That Lanre had been betrayed and was seeking vengeance for the death of his wife. That Seletos broke the Seven's names and used the Amir to distort their history and use story's to turn the realms against them. So they try to piece the bits of story together in hopes of getting the truth out so the can reassemble their names and finally pass on. But they are always just behind the Amir as they cover up the true history knowingly, or not? I'm not sure but the read through I'm doing now I'm reading it like Kvothe was mistaken about what he saw. I have to admit when you have that in mind things start to make more sense.
I like Denna, not because she's particularly likeable, but because of how Rothfuss seems to treat her as something of an antagonist to Kvothe. Whenever they meet, she's all sweet words and kindness, but her presence always leaves Kvothe worse off than before. Despite the best efforts of people like Ambrose and Master Hemme, none of them ever manage to hurt him quite as much as Denna. Even the Cthaeh, an ancient fey being with perfect foresight, sees that the best way to hurt Kvothe is to bring up Denna. Whatever happens to Kvothe in the end to turn him into Kote, I believe that Denna will be the root of it all.
Doors of stone in 2068 you sir are an optimist! Lol
The deadpan way you said 2068 almost got past me and then made me laugh out loud at work 😂 nice videos!
Denna has her own magic that Kvothe doesn’t know about and when she asks him if he’s heard of it, he laughs at her
So legit. Laughs and like a proper narcisit demonstrates his own powers
I want to add that I don’t care what her real name is, I’ll be disappointed when it’s revealed. I can’t think of her as other than Denna.
Her name is Grogu
@@mikeshevock2495 😂
Denna may be her true name. It's the one she gave to Kvothe. Perhaps she was told to because someone had reason to believe he'd know if she gave him a false name. Someone's been manipulating her. Same for Kvothe. The idea that there wasn't time for the Chandrian to finish Kvothe off before they left is silly. Even odder is why an arcanist with Ben's skill was travelling around in a wagon like a tinker rather than being established in a town or court. The implication of Ben being available is that sympathy is used commercially and widely available. But Kvothe seems to know nothing about it before Ben shows up even though he knows dozens of plays and hundreds of songs.
My first reading of the novels I struggled to understand Denna as a character and I couldnt really figure out why she acts in the way she does. I didnt know many other people that have read the Kingkiller chronicles so I got frustrated. One night I described Denna to my mom at dinner. I didnt give any background into the overall story of Kvothe, just the interactions between the pair. My mom thought about it, and after a minute she said, "thats a hooker."
After a couple more read throughs, I still kept that observation in mind. Though now, I feel that Im seeing her in a different light because of this study.
Good job on the video! Love your chanel!
It's more likely that Braeden is Denna's patron. We have proof that he's wiser and smarter than Kvoth and Denna. Here are two examples. One is when he plays Tack and the other is how he's mastered the social games of the mayor's court. We've seen him manipulate the game of tack in his favour with ease. He also explains the rings Kvoth is given and how the social hierarchy works in the mayor's court ... We have also had a glimpse of how brutal he can be when showing Kvoth that winning tack isn't the goal. Something about it makes him beating Denna (for her good or for his pleasure) more believable.
He seems like the kind of character who would have an interest in deeper secrets: like the Chandran and the Amyr. The mayor himself came very close to finding some serious answers without even knowing it according to the Cthaeh. Maybe that was Braeden or a shared acquaintance.
If Braeden is Denna's patron, perhaps Denna and Kvoth are walking parallel paths instead of strictly mirroring each other.
If Braeden is looking for either the Amyr or the Chandran, he could easily be using Denna as an experiment on what would happen if a song was written that spread lies about the Chandran... If he knew that the Mauthen farm would be destroyed during the wedding, he definitely knows that telling the truth will get you killed.
The idea of Denna as stalking horse is new to me. I'm surprised Kvothe didn't realize her song might attract the wrong kind of attention. But, as the song has none of their current names in it, it's more likely to be ignored by the Chandrian. Sentios, on the other hand, won't want to hear what he considers a big lie being sung.
As for Brandon I think he's of the Amyr, just like Lorren is.
@@jumperpoint have you seen any of the Carlin Brother's theories on the series. They're really good!
As always, excellent video!
The hole I find in the theory of the Amyr killing Denna's family is that I doubt she would sing (and probably hate) the Lay of Sir Savien Traliard. I'm thinking that would be akin to Kvothe singing the Song of Seven Sorrows.
I’m wondering if Bast sees her as she is and everyone else sees her in a glamour? Just like Bast disguise himself into a human? I see her as a young Megan Fox.
Killed me bro 😂
If we ever get a tv series of KKC I reckon the girl who is going to be playing Lanfear in the WOT tv show season 2 would be a perfect fit for Denna 👌 because she is an ex Lara Croft model and also looks quite similar to Megan Fox in ways
I think we must remember that Kvothe is the one telling us this story and he has insisted on letting us know he likes to embellish. At this point Kvothe is a very untrustworthy narrator so i try to doubt everything.
It wasn't a random substance.
Both her & kvothe thought it was maple syrup before kvothe figures it out & tells her to spit it out.
I've never watched any theory videos on Denna but I suspect her relationship to Kvothe has a sinister twist coming. Their "chance" encounters are anything but chance as I'm sure most people have guessed. She outs herself in book 2 when she stumbles into the tavern in Tarben after Kvothe returns from Vintas and mentions something along the lines of "I knew I'd find you here" which makes no sense at all considering the last time he saw her he was established in VIntas with a patron behind him. So her or someone she knows is constantly keeping tabs on Kvothe and where he is/where he's going. Can't wait to find out why whenever book 3 comes out.
I don't know about that. I went looking for my brother in Mexico and I just thought to myself "where would I go if I was my brother?" I didn't have an address or a phone number, just a city and state.
I went to the beach and sat there and within an hour, he came around this clump of trees and I knew that I would find him there. I think that people like to believe there's a connection between them. On the other hand, I had a stalker that did the same thing to me.
The way you said 2068 in such a straightforward manner made me laugh so hard. I feel you man, it is torture waiting for book 3
I really enjoy your Kingkiller videos, thank you!
I think Denna is a strong character that has found a way to live her life on her own terms, rather than just be in the shadow of a husband or a factory job.
Fair enough. I personally think Denna is a tragic character, who is the making of her own downfall. Then again, it is her right to act like that too
@@p.e.gilbertauthor3036 you could be right. It would totally makes sense for her attempts to live life on her own terms to end tragically, as the culture could be too much for her to overcome.
@@BruceMount I think you may well be right. Part of me just wishes Kvothe would realise that he and her won't be together. But I guess that Denna is just one of his many flaws (as is being an unreliable narrator)
2068. You legend. That made me literally laugh of loud. 👍
I’m about to make a criticism here so don’t come crying on me if you read, it’s an unpopular opinion:
The book fans who don’t like Denna are simple-minded, used to watching too many disney movies, and have not been paying too much attention to this character’s background. Maybe too blinded by Kvothe’s fascination for her too see Denna as a person rather than a platonic lover. These fans might get disappointed when they find out that in real life relationships things don’t often go as we would like to neither.
Now I’m going to explain what I do think of Denna:
Here is this young woman, who obviously doesn’t have economical stability and didn’t have the chance of receiving formation in a job. She has the bad luck of living in a sexist society, and has to make some difficult choices for a living. So she goes for prostitution. And even then, she makes the best of it.
Now, some people say that Denna likes to take advantage of men. Well excuse me but that’s not quite so. Please read the book again and live some life to realice that it’s those men who are trying to take advantage of a girl not older than 16. And again, she objectifies herself to get jewels and gifts that she might sell later. That’s what prostitution means.
And here comes this boy her same age, with (quite likely) a similar past, who needs help as much as she does, but is just as unwilling to receive it. She cherishes her relationship with him, because it might be the first time she has someone who understands her. She is frustrated by him not coming up to their appointments, but realices that he sometimes has to flee too. Maybe, just maybe, she is be afraid of being touched because her experience with sex is not so enjoyable. And she likes having a friend and not a lover for once.
Also, she would like to tell him her real name, but there’s something she’s hiding and names are dangerous, just as there are things he’s hiding too.
So here’s a summary of what Kvothe would be like if he were a girl. After losing his parents he ended up as a beggar boy, just think what happens to beggar girls in the street. Fans say that we know nothing of Denna’s past and that’s no entirely true. There are many things that we can deduce. But as I say at the beginning, to notice that you have to pay attention to the character instead of hating her because her relationship with Kvothe is frustrating.
you kind of seem to forget that 16 isnt considered as child in this kind of setting.
Always looking forward to these videos
I think Bast's reaction to Kvothe speaking about Denna not being special is a hint that Bast is Kvothe's son. He seemed more strangely defensive about it. Also that Denna uses the braids as a sort of glamor. It would help her not to be found as well when she wanted to vanish. I love the idea that she's on a parallel journey to Kvothe and that maybe the other side killed her family. But her reaction to Kvothe mentioning the 7 to her seemed to genuinely make her laugh like the notion was silly. True they both got heated in the argument about the song but I don't think she knows they exist for sure or is working with them knowingly by her reaction.
This so crazy to wait this long for a book . I just finished listening to the audiobooks . Love the character Denna
Denna is Kvothes Denner Resin
5:56 - okay, time to interject here.
First off, I agree with most things you say in this video. I also belive you're spot on when saying about "UNSKILLED women OF LITTLE MEANS". Meaning, that Denna's true predicament is not that she's a woman, but that she is poor and unskilled in anything that could earn income, except for music and, well, gold-digging.
However, I want to elaborate on this point, becuase seems to me that many people belive that part of Denna's problem is that women's options are limited in Kingkiller's world just because of their gender. After all, she says something along those lines, right?
However, if we consider other female characters in the books, we will see that Denna is wrong. First, there are female students at the University. One could argue that they're from wealthy families, but if Kvothe was able to bluff his way into the University, a clever, resourceful charming girl like Denna could, too.
Second, there's Hespe, a female mercenary, plus another unnamed female mercenary in a group of mercenaries who fight with Tempi at a tavern. Both of them are described as capable and tough.
Third, there's Devi, the most feared gaelet in Imre. Sure, it's not a respectable profession, but Devi is in control of her own destiny and doesn't have to rely on men to earn a comfortable (or, I suspect, even wealthy) living.
Fourth, there's an entire mariarchal society in Ademre. Even if Denna could argue that women are treated poorly in the Four Corners, she could go to Ademre and become not just equal, but superior to men, from societal point of view (because the Adem basically belive that women are better than men at important things and are unnecessary for procreation).
All of the above demonstrates that Denna is mistaken in her view of options for women in Kingkiller setting. Moreover, let's assume that she IS correct. Given her skills and charm, Denna could capture herself a suitable man, wrap him around her little finger and essentially rule her own household, putting up appearances, if need be - a thing that has been done and is being done in the real world all the time. Yet, Denna makes it seem like there are only two options for women - prostitution or menial labor, which, according to her, is just prostitution with extra steps.
I think her past made her too jaded to see that her options are much more expansive that she belives. This is part of her character flaw. My issue is with erroneous analysis of Denna's character by some people who seem to buy into her point of view too much and, thus, justify her actions and attitude.
Anyway, apologies for the long rant. Hopefully, I've managed to get my point across.
I don't know why I'm engaging with this, but just a couple of notes to maybe provoke some thought about your arguments for Denna's options:
1. University - Family money aside, Kvothe had the privelege of private tutorship with a full arcanist when he was a child, plus his 'letter of recommendation' via the book Ben gave him. Denna never had this, and Kvothe undoubtedly would not have considered this path if he had not had Ben's help - he probably would have died a street rat in Tarbean. It's a bit flippant to suggest Denna could have just done the same as Kvothe, although this is not a problem with her sex, but of her lack of means/privelege, as you say.
2. Mercenary - Denna is young (near Kvothe's age) and not described as someone with Hespe's physique. The majority of mercenaries are men, making Hespe the exception rather than the rule. This is a gendered problem, as a boy/man would probably be more likely to be taken on as a mercenary or any of the other low skilled workers mentioned in the books (who are never single women, incidentally): sailors, caravan workers, farmers etc. The only low skilled women mentioned - bar maids - are universally described in sexualized terms, so Denna is not wrong in her characterization of menial labor for women in this world.
3. Gaellet - Devi is doing something highly illegal, and she is only feared due to her arcanist abilities from university - even if Denna started a loanshark business by selling her jewellery or whatever, how is she going to enforce payment?
4. Adem warrior - Kvothe was nearly killed for coming to Ademre and the majority of Adem rejected him. Also at the age of 16, he was already considered so behind in his training to most likely never take the red. Completely impossible option for Denna unless she had a time machine that could make her born in a different place.
The point is, without any exceptional effort, Kvothe was offered jobs by the farmer that dropped him off in Tarbean and the caravan that took him to the university - I don't think I'm being cynical in saying it is unlikely a girl would have been offered those jobs, and even if she was, it would not come with the same guarantee of personal safety. If an UNSKILLED orphan boy gets multiple job opportunities just by being nearby, but all examples of women with unsexualised jobs have to be exceptional through physique or education, perhaps gender is a legitimate limitation.
Denna is obnoxious in so many ways, but I think her point of view re: women in this world is fairly well-supported by the text.
P.S. Long nerd rants are the best - never apologise!
@@erinconlon2105 I loved this reply of yours. It words everything succintly.
@@MAD99990 There is something else that you left out: Remember Master Hemme's harassment of Fela the first day of class, and then failure to engage her for the remainder. He was openly hostile about the female gender entering the school. It's reasonable to assume that there are also other Masters who are equally opposed but not openly hostile. It clearly the master of the Medica is pro-female. I think it's reasonable to assume that it's a bell curve. With one end of the spectrum being Master him and the other end of the spectrum being the master of the medica. This would be a profound deterrent. I had a similar experience in a drafting class that started out half males and half females. By the end of the first week there only remained myself.
Thank you this is an amazing carácter study.
I wish more people does this kind of fine artist works.
Beautiful ilistrarions. Congratulations to those artists
I appreciate all the time and effort you have put into these videos! Keep it up!
Those are some beautiful renditions of Denna
I loved the 2068 quip at the end. Excellent video! Thank you!
"2068" killed me lol
When does he say this?!
10:38
Through her relationships, she has access to unedited private libraries. Does Ash beat her? Or is he teaching her, like Kvothe is taught later?
Im convinced the biggest reason The Door of Stone isn’t published yet is because he just can’t get this character right.
He's written himself into a trap, an attractive fun trap but one that will be very hard to tie up neatly in a single book.
Nah it’s done. It’s his life’s work and he’s got nothing else. We will get doors of stone. But it will be when he’s got no cards left to play. No more “charities” or swords, streams or channels, novellas and q&a’s. So I’m guessing 2030.
Don't forget he's also a perfectionist.
I actually think that's the main reason for the long wait. He wrote the first book in 14 years, which means there's only 5 years left, if that's the amount of time it takes him to write a book that he is satisfied with 😅
@@waterchild_2310 wrong that is not true. Last ver of the name of the Wind went through 4 revisions thay changed the story he is bad story writer.
@@finalfrontier001 i think he is amazing, in every way. Not just the story itself, but also how he writes and describes characters, I don’t know, I’m just amazed with him.
The whole problem with Denna and Kvothe can be summed up succinctly: He fell for the FIRST GIRL he ever met and despite copious other opportunities and liaisons, he never gets a clue that she's the wrong sort to trust, love, or marry.
Fela and Devi were both interested at times and there is Auri, but she is kinda special
@@OkabexKurisu
I think Fela would have been the proper choice if Kvothe wanted to lead a normal life. I think Auri is his match if he is going to be with someone who understands his heart.
Omg I choked on my drink when he said 2068 bahaha. Got me. I feel you. I wish I could read the doors of the stone before I die.
Kvothe isn't stoic toward her--he's terrified of chasing her away. It's far from the same thing.
She is in love with him, but she has attachment issues while he's an idiot. She's also something of a succubus to other men, which is why she's so despicable as a character.
Plenty of women have it hard in the word of KKC, but plenty of them find their way into stable and relatively happy lives too. It's her insecurity and entitlement that stops her from finding this and makes her so wicked. Even if the fan theory about her being a mirror to Kvothe for the aforementioned reasons is true, that doesn't mean she has to be a gold-digger and a whore to chase her goals. She's perfectly smart enough to attend the university, and it's hard to imagine the Chandrian would object much to that (assuming Cinder is her patron, ofc) since both seem eager to hide the secrets of the Seven. But like Kvothe, her intelligence far outstrips her wisdom, and they are both the worse for it.
If P.R. wasn't intentionally writing Kvothe to be either a tragic story or the making of a villain, it would have been far better for him to pursue Fela or Auri instead, and the story would be immensely more satisfying as well. However, I suspect that P.R. intends to go the way of G.R.R.M. and ruin all our favorite characters just to be "different." For his talents as an author, he still frequently falls into hubristic tendencies that undermine his stories in subtle, but irritating ways.
I actually didn’t mind Denna as much my first read through, but after a couple more read through I hated Denna, after really noticing all the times she disregards kvothes feelings when it suits her but relys on him to make her feel better about herself, that’s what really stood out to me
Plz keep making these, they are great
Great content as always!! Keep it up!
Role reversal. If it was the hero of the story galavanting around sleeping with women (not for a practical I need to live reason but even just for sex), with one woman they really loved in the picture… (Witcher cough cough) well that would be normal and Kvothe would not be negatively judged for it. I think the way these characters don’t conform to the stereotypical roles is well done, and highlights some of the issues with prevailing attitudes in our society.
Interesting and insightful views of Denna. I rather like her. She's a true survivor in a world that cares little for women. Yes, she has paid the price exacted for her Innocence. And she is innocent no longer. She is also brilliant, as her inquiries about 'sympathy' and her talent for music, and her intelligent conversation often prove. And yes, she is so like Kothe. In a world where only the brilliant, talented and narcissistic can thrive. I so enjoy your insights on these lovely, charismatic, and enigmatic personalities. You would love the characters of the assassin (Fritz) and The Fool by Robin Hobb.
Actually in any period of time (even today) men have always been the most exposed to danger and atrocities. The medieval world specifically. I understand what you mean though.
wooow I never heard that theory of Denna's family being killed by the amyr and them being merely colateral damage in this old war. Really cool
Hey, at least she has nice ears
I've been binging your content again and I somehow missed this video. When you said 2068, I laughed so hard that I started crying. xD
Denna is my favorite besides Kvothe. I just can't wait for her next chapters and when they fought I desperately wanted to see them reconcile.
They would really need to talk about something of importance but I like reading about them chilling and forgetting about the world.
Have you considered that Denna is Cinder? Dark eyes. The injury on her thigh, like the man Kvothe attacks ..? I can’t wrap my head around that.
Would love to hear more of this theory!
Ohhhhhhhhh
Isn't it obvious that the guy she's seeing is the king that kvothe is gonna kill?
This is what I've been thinking as well.... Why else hide your identity so well (her patron is who I think is the king.... Which is another reason why he feels he can beat her; the king does what he wants, damnit!).....or HE is one of the Amyr using her as bait to bring out the chandrain on his terms
"What is her role going forward"
Going forward hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha yeah right
No, Brandon Sanderson is going to finish this series too 🤣
There was an article with quote from rothfuss editor saying that he hasn't written anything for the doors of stone in 6 years .
I arrived at the idea that Denna mirrors Kvothe myself and I’m glad to hear that others share the idea. She is seeking her own power for revenge. She has her own tragic backstory most likely involving SA. I imagine she hates roses due to this same traumatic event. I am willing to bet that she even is on familiar terms with Devi. I also agree that we would have a different view if we had her story from her perspective the way we are being told Kvothe’s. We just need that 3rd freaking booook!
I thin you are missing a lo about Denna. I believe she is actually on a personal Journey which is much like that of Kvote's. She is looking for answers to questions which are close in nature to questions which Drive Kvote. This is why she does what she does. She is looking for something which is scattered among the rich and the noble. Something which requires very old magic and language.
YESSS DENNA. Always been a fan, don’t care who knows it. Thanks for another fantastic video! Go to 10.40 for when he says “2068”, absolutely hilarious 😂
Me too.
I'll be coming back to this video in 2068 when DoS is still not out
I neee more of these!!!!!
Things I wonder about Denna is firstly her name. Is it the name Kvothe uses for her because she ends up addicted to Dena resin her white teeth are often mentioned and her eating the resin is made a big deal about. Perhaps he also feels that his feelings for her were like an addiction.
I also wonder about her ring specially about whether Ambrose recognised it as being from an important family and is in some way holding that knowledge over her. She seems to act very defensively whenever it's brought up.
Regardless of nature versus nurture. She is an extremely manipulative person that is far too resourceful to need to do such things to be successful in life. Overall she is a good person who for the most part cares for others but she is awful as well.
ROFL! I liked and subscribed after the 2068 comment. I literally started cracking up. 😂
Some time ago, i had the theory that denna is somewhat a reencarnation of Lyra, the lovet of haliax, the leader of the chandrian and destroyer of myr tariniel. If the theory is correct, there are two options : she remembers her life as lyra(or partially) she doesnt remember a thing(but she knows something with herself is off) that maybe will explain her constants travels, since a little girl, as a rencarnation maybe he lost her abilities of the names of things. Eventually met kvothe and as a little girl(with barely memories of being lyra) she fell in love with him, but she knowd somewhat that she has things to do and places to go, and little by little she is remembering things. We know that kvothe said: i loved, and i was betrayed, in reality we dont know if the treason was of a romantic love or a more platonic love. But maybe denna remembers everything in the worst moment possible and leaves with haliax and the chandrian
Thank you for the perspective! I think they’re two teens trying to survive but who still love each other. Whatever lies in the fog of the unknown, I believe she genuinely loves him but needs to survive (as a musician and perhaps an escort). That’s where I recall Arliden’s words:
“Call a jack a jack. Call a spade a spade. But always call a whore a lady. Their lives are hard enough, and it never hurts to be polite.”
The story told from Denna's perspective, as unreliable as Kvothe's, but in different ways, would be amazing.
She toys with Kvothe because she's in love with him, but doesn't feel worthy of him. She's older than him and she's fleeing a past that's hidden and probably dangerous. Also, she's scammed and taken advantage of herself. She does skip out on money she owes sometimes, but that's not because she won't pay it, but because she can't.
That they annoy you is probably intensional. I feel the same way every time someone wastes a chapter telling us a story we don't want to hear because Rothfuss wants to give us clues about how the story will end.
I loved your video, great job! We shall wait till 2068 for that book. LOL.
It's a Harem Anime about student loans.
Denna's character is just frustrating. It's okay for someone to be mysterious, but there should be an arc where we slowly learn more things about that character. Hundreds of pages and thousands of words of this series, and we still know nothing about her. We don't even see Kvothe ask once, "hey, so where are you from? Where are your parents? What's your deal?" They interact dozens of time, and not once does any question like this come up. Any progress they ever make with each other is always turned back to nothing . . . it's baffling
Initially I thought she was too convenient of a character. Her story, to this point, and read too much like a plot device, forced to be an emotional catalyst and conveniently brought in to sustain mystery. But, after subsequent readings I to have begun viewing her differently. Her story, much like so many of the other stories in this series may be far more nuanced and I too hope we will get those reveals of an unseen plot line in the third book. Initially I thought she was actually “the wind” personified, a magical manifestation Kvothe sees upon reawakening after his emotional retreat as a street urchin. And while I don’t think see is anything quite that fantastical anymore she may still serve as a metaphor of something Kvothe must fully “see”, and like Auri, respect her ‘true perfect’ place before he can complete his character arc.
2068 sounds about right! 😂 Been waiting since 2011.
I could pretty much enjoy an edition of King killer with Denna completely edited out. The finished parts of the story wouldn't be much impacted and since Doors of Stone does not and will never exist it can't be impacted.
I 100% support this idea. She is completely superfluous
I love Denna. I love her mysterious aura. I hope we find out more about her
You might be one of the relative few. I can see why Kvothe likes her, but she is the kind of woman he should just stay away from
Agreed. She's actually one of my favorite characters. And she for sure loves Kvothe. I'm sure of it.
@@karlsweeney2328 Do you think so? I just think she is the kind of person who will never settle down with anyone. She is just a tragic story, sadly. That's how I see her, anyway
@@p.e.gilbertauthor3036 I agree with the tragic part, but I also believe her patron is one of the Chandrian, and that she's being forced along a path she wouldn't choose otherwise. We'll have to wait and see, but I'm rooting for her
@@karlsweeney2328 I think you are right but her patron, but she has also decided to live the life she does. She could do other things with her talents.
I would root for her. But judging by the way things end for Kvothe (in failure), it doesn't look like things will end well for Denna either. That's my gut, anyway
Nice video
She has something to do with the 7 she always pops up after we hear about them
denna is the most hated because you can never understand what the hell does she want
THESE VIDEOS ARE SO FUCKING COOL HOLY SHIT
I'm reserving judgment until we know *why* she acts this way
Partialy, some things are personality, there is no justification for it, you just like those trades or not, and some things might have a reason, but even if so, you might not feel like it is a valid justification. I neither demonise her nor like her, I reather dislike her, but that does not mean everything about her is bad, she had to be moraly rotten or what ever
10:37 This had me dyin :))
I would literally skip passages when Denna came up. I don't dislike her but I dislike their relationship dynamic. I feel like it would be much more enjoyable if they were just friends
2068 😂
I know, it is a great point; maybe even the best of the video (even though the video is brilliant and informative)
Whatever I love Denna and I love every scene between them. I think you just can’t appreciate those scenes because you don’t have much experience flirting with and charming women.
Yo what part of NZ are you from? I’m from the Waikato ✌🏼
2068 🤣😂🤣 it’s funny because it’s true
The Doors of Stone released in 2068! Haha! I love it
I legit laughed so hard when you said doors of stone would be released in 2068
in 2068 :,) loved the video
I believe that Denna does like Kvothe
Master ash is definitely the tact guy I forget his name