Is KDE Plasma Too Modular?
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
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► Chapters:
00:00 - KDE Plasma
00:42 - Disclaimer
01:07 - Missing programs
02:29 - Passwords can be broken sometimes
03:17 - Minor annoyances and missing dependencies
05:23 - Who is at fault here?
06:49 - Two different sides
07:35 - Conclusion
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► Description Tags:
kde plasma, kde plasma 6, kde plasma 6 bugs, kde plasma 6 problems, linux problems, linux problems and solutions, is kde plasma good, gnome vs kde plasma, kde plasma tips and tricks, linux discussion, linux rant, michael horn
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#linux #opensource #kdeplasma 
Игры
So the cube dependency situation was first KDE's fault for not making it mandatory (this was a simple omission) and then Arch's fault for noticing, but making it optional, rather than mandatory. After a while both were fixed, and it's now marked as mandatory in our packaging, and as well on Arch.
Gods I hate kwallet, I mainly use kde but I always make sure kwallet is disabled
kwallet only asks for passwords once tho
@@RenderingUser 😂😂😂 I wanna know what distro your using because kwallet has always been a big pain in the neck popping up seemingly once a minute
@@dragonfly8568 kubuntu
It works very differently on each Distro. Kubuntu and the Fedora KDE spin don't seem to have issues, unless you mess with it, but many manual Desktop Environment switches have these problems while all the functionality and dependencies are available
@@dragonfly8568 kubuntu
Without going into who is responsible for dependencies and such, silent errors, or checkboxes that does nothing should be strongly informative that they are not working, and that is 100% on KDE.
Silent "errors" will always be 100% plasma responsibility.
maybe not if the distro you use doenst care about installing the complete kde app suite
Error messages can be difficult to create though. Many dependencies and packages are being called differently on many distributions and might not be packaged the same way.
So the error message might say, what it missing, but just finding and installing it via your distro might not be enough
@@MichaelNROH It doesn't have to explain exactly what is wrong (if it can that's great) but it should def put an exclamation mark or smthn next to the checkbox/setting if it is not working (after pressing apply).
I think its even more simple than that, just put a note in the description, "this function requires 'blah blah blah" package". that way install it if you want to use that feature, ignore it if you dont
kde team needs just work on stability now
I have never used KDE, but through 10 years of trying to switch to Linux full time I'll tell you one thing, open source never focus on stability on more features is what it's all about to devs. And if it doesn't work, it's your fault for not putting 100s of hours into solving the problem.
I'm on Linux now, Linux mint , for a reason.
@@zooziz5724 oh, I know
The problem is NOT, that KDE Plasma is too modular. Plasma has too many options and the different ways you can combine those options lead to a system, that has an complexity, that has grown exponentially with each option. More complexity means more bugs and more undetected bugs. So by definition KDE will be less reliable, unless you stick to the options of the default install, which I assume has been tested thoroughly.
That is, why as retired chief-architect of systems with high reliability requirements, I prefer Gnome :)
@bertnijhof5413 I also notice that Plasma6.1 is not friendly to non-English users, I can't search any none-English filename and any file in none-English path-name.
A lot of the issues I have with KDE Plasma stem from it being TOO customizable, every update some customization feature kicks the bucket and makes me want to stop using KDE because I feel like it is too unstable for day to day use.
but then the issue is that it's unstable and not too customisable 🤔
@@Software-sb1gx they think instability stems from customizability, which I kind of agree with.
Just that for me it's stable enough, on X11 with Nvidia.
My personal experience wasn't as bad, but there definitely can be breakages, especially since many use third party tools like kvantum
@@dyenire exactly, in my case the instability stems in big parts from customizability
@@MichaelNROHtbf kvantum messes with palettes and uses lots of custom colours. (That's why you need to install separate color schemes with it. Because of its shitty design)
The plasma 6 google drive integration(kio-gdrive) is broken, which is a requirement for me as a student.
Mount your drive using rclone, then use dolphin to access your files
KDE wallet was broken in 6.1, which is apparently fixed now. It should now work with the same password thingy.
Also about the calendar and account integration, boy I felt you on that one for sure!
This part of the video helped me out. I was wondering why I didn't see my Google calendara integrated. It was a real facepalm moment for me lol
Something that many android "skins" like one ui etc do is allow you to lock certain part of customization. Once you set up your homepage layout, you can lock it. It will remove the ability to move apps around, you can't long press in the void to access the widget menu etc.
I wish KDE had something like that. I find the extensive customization of it impressive and interesting. I have not tried it myself but from watching videos about it, I can see that every banner, menu and more can be customized to fit aesthetic and functionality. But tbh I already feel overwhelmed by it. I wish that if I right clicked something, I would only be presented a menu with tools to handle that file, not customization regarding the file explorer and whatnot.
If KDE had (and maybe it does and I'm just not aware of it, I just wanted to share my thoughts before forgetting) a simple toggle to lock any sort of system customization. Cuz it's like cable management, you do it in depth and nicely so you never have to touch it again
Note that bro installed kde on top of gnome.
I am using Fedora KDE and kde wallet works out of the box.
KDE is 2nd product of Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora. But opensuse has no1 KDE support
I definitely think they should either not show options if the module is not installed (whats the point in modularity if the module is required for the options I get offered from the DE to function) or at least show like a message that the required module for this functionality is not installed. KDE, like Gnome, kinda aims towards less advanced users (at least to some extend) and so they should definitely set some focus on user experience here. I believe they did some changes in that direction in the latest 6.1 update so it kinda goes in the right direction I guess.
I feel like the error message approach is also not perfect, as the dependency itself might not the packaged or named the same on any distribution.
Benutze KDE seit über 20 Jahren für mich die beste Oberfläche auch wenn sie nicht perfekt ist und es manchmal ein paar Workarounds benötigt
Compared to other people's rants, you were still extraordinary polite.
I'm good with Plasma 6.x in its current state :)
This is part of why I'm having a much better time on GNOME right now after having tried KDE Plasma. I appreciate the freedom and customizability of KDE, but its just too buggy, has too many inconveniences, and looks ugly out of the box, while GNOME doesn't. It's just so much less complicated, and GNOME is still quite customizable
For me it's the most beautiful desktop I've ever used.
As customisable as KDE is, I don't even bother customising it. Included menus, such as "Get theme" or "Get cursor" never worked for me, throwing out random server error messages if i dare to open it even twice in less than a week, and downloading a tenth of what is actually needed for the theme to work the few times it does not error out.
Fair enough. For me it never really caused big problems, but i just never downloaded 3rd party stuff, and just change the theme to dark lol
Yeah, the settings browser integration is pretty terrible. Some categories are just impossible to browse
I have found that downloading themes, icons, etc from your distro's repo to work the best and is way safer. I can't tell you how many times I've "broken" KDE just trying to tweak the taskbar. For that reason I customize it then leave it alone indefinitely until a new install or I get really bored of it.
I've had problems/error messages too with the "Get New" portion of themes etc. What solved it for me was to use a vpn. Still went back to gnome though coz I had several problems with firefox on latest plasma version.
i think its the distro, i rarelly have issues on kde on rolling release distros
I think a lot of it are also your expectations for the system, specially when coming from other environments. I use KDE wich Arch(btw), so I am used to the modularity, not only used but I expect that, but I can also see your point if you want a no-hassle experience, but I feel like at that point it's more of a distro thing than KDE's - specially considering how massive KDE is. I'm all in for communicating with Fedora KDE maintainers and discussing about a more complete experience and more sensible defaults, might be a good idea that can help improve yours and many others KDE experience there.
"Room for discussion" as you mentioned in the video is the key point IMO. KDE may lack in many areas, but this is where it shines - in the it can always improve with community support and feedback, don't like something? You're always free to contribute with your opinion, most KDE devs are very welcoming of new ideas and open to discuss them, unlike other DE's that I rather not mention but they start with a G and they try really really really hard to copy Apple.
For me personally NOT being able to remove "parential control", a "core dependency" of GNOME, or disable a background calendar process that I dont use is a TONNE more unpleasant than spending 20 seconds googling what kde app I can install (if I WANT to) that does this or that
I stilI prefer the KDE desktop over Gnome, as the DE itself is very powerful, modern looking, runs great and I love the personalization of it. But the KDE apps feel like they haven't evolved since 2004. So I do think they should consider some intergration (at least with the calender) instead of feeling they're just tacked on. But the apps need alot more TLC then they seem to be currently given.
where did u get that wallpaper? it looks so nice :3
Most of the problems are due to the mere fact that in KDE you can put third-party or similar tools, obviously there are going to be errors. The same thing happens in Gnome, it has many bugs but most of them involve mixing things from third parties.
I’m with you regarding kio-fuse, I like Kde the way it is except network share and other small stuff, kdewallet and balloo integrations could be a little better, overall I’m more than happy with it.
Can you try making a video on linux in laptop for students focusing on battery life without tlp, autocpufreq etc. just default power management on power save mode? It would be really appreciated for a student like me.
He did, search from his channel
The fact that kscreen isn't a dependency of plasma-desktop in Arch is really annoying and just confuses new comers. Basic functionalities like output management should be a mandatory dependency.
Thanks. One more input that strengthens my decision to stay on Gnome even Nobara changed officially to KDE.
Only thing I am missing is a GUI option to automount a webdav drive on login.
Thanks for the video. I don't need new features so I'm sticking with Kubuntu 22.04 LTS (KDE Plasma 5 and X11) for a bit longer.
i have a problem, i installed Fedora on my computer and when i put computer on sleep mode, and when i turn it on display is not turning on
KDE is too modular until you need it to do something or change something; then it's wonderful again. I recommend Gnome to people who don't care about heavy customising or are likely to break the DE and KDE to people who like to much about with stuff.
Gnome users with 30+ extensions be like 😅
Meanwhile, people with Gnome:
-Can't maximize Da Vinci Resolve.
Thats a problem with resolve. Maybe plasma forces it with client side decorations while gnome does not support that. @@Maisonier
One of the best opinion about KDE that’s beyond superficial: hey looks like windows so easy to use, looks nice to me, etc.
I love gnome but it really misses some software that are more feature full. I also love KDE but it always feeled kind of unfinished.
While I use both Gnome and KDE and I can agree that KDE can be frustrating at times due to the open ended nature of it. With freedom of modularity come the papercut issues.
KDE should communicate about the failures and missing components way better to the end user. Then again if we are discussing problems like this I think KDE has come already a very long way from what it has been in the past.
That is true. The Plasma experience itself is pretty great
Hi, to mount remote storage I'm using autofs. It mounts disk as soon as you enter the directory.
1:45 What? I used KOrganizer and selected 'Show my personal calendar' in the clock widget. I didn't have to install anything.
KOrganizer is a completely optional tool, which is why it's not packaged with the Desktop Environment packages, but chosen seperately.
This leads to various different experiences, based on how Plasma is being installed or shipped
I like both KDE and Gnome, however I found myself using Gnome more due to how minimalist and straight to the point it is out of the box.
I have a question.
Does Linux support DTS audio processing.
Technically yes, but depending on what you need exactly, you might need to do some configuring.
Michael, your insights into KDE Plasma are really impressive, and I'm eager to try out your advice! It's clear you have deep experience with Linux environments.
I'm curious, what do you think is the most underrated feature of KDE Plasma that more users should know about? Your perspective would be greatly valuable!
I understand you're busy, but I'd love to hear from you. Thanks! 🐧
what I don't get is why the default plasma looks terrible if there's so much you can do with it. why don't they make it look great from the beginning? I am planning on installing arch in these few days and I've been watching tutorials, mainly because I don't want to f up my windows 10 install and whenever they log into kde it looks terrible. Also the default login screen looks straight out of windows xp
watching this video as Cinnamon user, love KDE tho
YES . when you install kde it should at bare minimum come with a photo viewer and bare essentials. like other DE when you install them you get those things , but with kde you get nothing..unless you install KDE-Applications and...install every single KDE app ever? theres no in between. you either do it ALL yourself, or grab every single app ever. Where are the sane defaults!?
Yeah, a basic set of options should be made mandatory, or at least the distro that packages it, should offer this one as the default.
I had a problem with my mouse buttons randomly not working for a few seconds while playing cs 2. It was because I had a sliding taskbar set to "avoid windows". The fix was to set it to "always visible" before playing the game.
I still have a problem with fps going down from 300 to about 40 after about an hour of playing cs and I don't know what to do. I have similar performance issue while playing cyberpunk, so it's not only 1 game. After closing cs during fps drops, kde animation of a notification coming in was also stuttery. Does anyone know how to fix it?
I use arch. My gpu is asus rtx 3070 ti, cpu is intel 10850K, ssd: Samsung 980 1TB. If there's more info needed I will answer as fast as I can :)
The CS2 issue applies to Linux in general, since Valve never bothered to optimize it. If I play a game of deathmatch, I start out with my usual 300-400 fps, but it drops down to 80 average at the end
@@MichaelNROH Thank you for the fast reply. I didn't know that there is an issue with cs itself! But I don't know what's causing smaller fps drops in cyberpunk (also after playing for about an hour or so). The only thing that I can think of possibly leading to this issue is my disk, because when I want to use fast travel or just open a map, it loads very slow and audio stutters for about 4 or 5 seconds. A few weeks ago I've had a notification from S.M.A.R.T 2 times that my drive can fail some time in the future, but nothing happened with it and it passes every test using SeaTools testing program.
This is why ive stuck with cinnamon
How did you solved the first scroll getting ignored in some apps?
I don't know this issue
@@MichaelNROH In some applications like discord the first scroll when the mouse enter the window gets eaten (ignored)
It happens on wayland and xorg as well
They need to work on akonadi.
So far i the only distro i found that runs kde smoothly with no lag is Arch And manjaro and in my case kde runs pretty smoothly on Arch i have no problems with it
If you want something a little more with HID, keyboards are broken on KDE/Wayland and deeper. On Ms Windows too. Heaving some fun with trying to get all possible keys working using ZMK. I can probably make it work below KDE but then QT limits you to what is possible. I read the source.
kdewallet is also very inferior in the ssh credentials space. It would be amazing if it worked simply like gnome’s keyring
hi there . how u became attreacted to fedora. its solid pick in general . thx in advance
Well, I just installed it and liked its update cycle
if i weren't came to nix, i would have stayed in fedora....
Debian based, too old packages..
Arch, too broken....
fedora, just perfect... (little less package availability )
then there is nix...
@@MichaelNROH Fedora is freaking solid for GNOME and for KDE. A "to-go" for thats DEs.
fedora is pain to me compared to arch, but I am still on fedora for the reason of not wanting to reinstall my OS
@@dyenire I prefer Silverblue to any distro. I don't want to think nothing about my system, anymore. Silverblue is perfect for this.
These are the reasons why i'm in love with KDE but i switched to Gnome 3 years ago.
Unavailable features should be disabled (greyed out) with hint on mouse over
Greying out is a good idea actually
Timezone automatic sync doesn't even work
Gnome developers promised that HDR will be implemented in this year, but there is no HDR support in 47 alpha, I'm so disappointed.
I love the workflow of Gnome, but they make me have no choice but using Plasma.
You can neglect the Alpha for feature comparison, since most stuff is only merged once the Beta drops. In fact more complicated and deeply integrated stuff concerning their compositor often get merged just before the first release candidate
A big part of the issue is that KDE Plasma isn't just a desktop environment for desktop. It's also for handheld, TV, automobile, phones, and others. These are issues that they constantly discuss because they want to make sure to serve the best interest fot everyone, so it's hard to really nail down the exact compromise.
Silent errors are bad, though. And agreed regarding the kio-fuse, it should just default to predictable directory unless there's an issue with it. Oh, and for calendar, the integration page could've been surfaced with a toggle or something, so users could discover the existence of additional features.
PIM situation under KDE is kinda insane, messy and in transit. Mekuro is a very new thing. But all of it requires akonadi server underneath, which has a full fledged postgres as dependency, that's why calendaring is opt-in (there was sqlite option but they abandoned it).
All of it was born out of idea of semantic-desktop with centralised meta store but it's being slowly abandoned.
i want to use kde plasma but don't know which distro to go with
i don't want anything arch
A distro which comes pre-packged with it. Manjaro, Fedora KDE, Kubuntu, etc.
They usually include everything
@@MichaelNROH i have heard of Manjaro
is it good for low end hardware?
Suse
The problem is, you expected KDE to work like Gnome. Instead of learning how KDE does things
That's how people migrating from windows to gnome act. They expect gnome to be like windows. Lol
@@user-sm1jp4en9u Then they make a video claiming Linux isn't as good as Windows
@@Error8x8 true
I like that you use nano like a true legend.
It's usually pre-installed and better to understand than VI or VIM (for most at least)
There's a lot of little thing that bugged me when using kde, and all of them stacked.
0:10 Wallpaper?
Programmers when modularity:
Yo 🤘
Hey
Definitively the problem is with the Distros that don't seem to know how KDE Plasma work and don't package it correctly.
as for screen tearing, that KWIN_DRM_NO_AMS variable Borks the session at least on Nvidia, so it's totally KDE's fault for not saying it's currently not working no matter how you look at it
who jopb is to list all these thing so the people using it can choose to enable and disable these thing inculeding the OS devs.... KDE!
6:36 by this logic, i should be using mac os
it isn't a problem that plasma is too moduler and customizable, the evils are the bugs and unexpected behaviours.
It correlates a bit, since with more modularity there is also more variability, making it harder to solve
all that modularity and I still can't uninstall KMail :p
That's a distro issue. Opensuse microos installs KDE without kmail by default.
How about openbox hehe
East or west, gnome is best.
CLI ftw
Meanwhile, the rest of Plasma 6+ is superb.
No
Fedora 39 is fenomenal I try the 40 but didn't find my scanner so I go back to what works 100% even so... I also like fedora 40 with gnome 46.. Best Linux ever! Maybe I miss something wen installing fedora... In the 39 I have the printer on and connected when I try fedora 40 it was disconnected maybe because of that didn't install the scan drive.. I don't have mutch time for computers now like before... But yes windows 11 is a no thanks! And Hotmail is the same.... For some reason in January I was hacked by a fool hacker and since then that I want to change it all to Linux or Chrome os... The thing with chrome os is that only works online and is not so easy for me like fedora... I appreciate a lot the work of Gnome and fedora they are doing a nice OS user friendly and less complicated than 20yrs ago with all commands sudo apt get is tall etc etc I try Ubuntu and nothing works not even the camera.. I try mint and other solutions and I was almost giving up of Linux wen I see your video about fedora 39 with gnome 45 thanks bro! 👍
kde plasma is dependency hell
I never get the “customizable” approach of KDE as a feature, to me. A ton of that customizations are useless, I don't know they exist, maybe I will never know they exist, or I will never use. Cool that exists, anyway. I always looked like “it's so much option, so much end-points to generate some type of bug”.
That's probably also the reason on why other Desktop Environments treat their customization much more than third party assets.
Even stuff they maintain themselves, might not be installed by default
Sorry but the premise of this video is a bit insane. KDE stability is just fine and choices are never a bad thing.
When I'm in a 'having the realest take' competition and my opp is Michael Horn 😰
I see no problem at all is just a matter of chosing the correct KDE distribution..
I'm sorry, but I like getting things GNOME!
Kwallet - no password, this is the only sane setting. I don't even understand what is it for.
It's just a credentials safe. Setting no password is technically less secure, but that it would only apply if several users use the PC with sudo privileges.
@@MichaelNROH Yeah, but the issue is, Kwallet with password is broken, while without one it works, so probably 99% of users don't use password. This should be fixed or changed, because currently, this is just broken IMO.
KDE users when gnome breaks extensions with a new release once in 6 months: 🤣🤣🤣
KDE users when their rice breaks the system after a minor update twice a week: 😑😐🤐
Yep
KDE has always bitten off more than it can chew. All of the features are great, but each one of those features is a potential point of failure. I think there’s just too much there for them to maintain properly.
Gosh, you just remembered why I switched from Linux to macOS after 11 years Linux only.
I prefer less things and add what i need later rather than a huge amount of features that i wont use (if theyre easy to uninstall then its not a problem)
It's too problematic for me, unfortunately.
Click Bait!!
Yes.
Exact reason why I don't use it. it's too customizable.
Yes
I tried KDE one and it was a very bad experience, i prefer Gnome it's not as customisable as KDE but it's simple, reliable and looks and feels better
Nur Nein 😊
KDE is bloated
but consumes less ram than gnome
@@ArefinKarim only if it is badly built by the distro, my whole system only uses 1.3 gb ram
@@ArefinKarimas much as I love plasma and kde in general, free ram is useless ram. It being used possibly makes the thing more performant, for example, it could talk less to the drive which has much higher latency than RAM, and it gets freed when needed by other apps
there was also that .cache bug...
Linux on Desktop is not ready for prime time. Any Linux that would be would use standards and not wild cobbled together stuff that barely works (Linux as a whole)
Linux is to fractured and still has childish fights about what to use when....
Linux on servers is superior tho.
Perhaps you should create something that follows your own impossible standards. Unless Windows/Mac is already enough for you. That is where we get to the point of why are you here if you don't think any "Linux" is good. Your comment does not even have a point. lol
Works for me so idk
KDE is too much like windows. I hate it.