I used to swap around articles of clothing to pass checks until Kim pulled me side to talk to me about my questionable fashion sense. The game does an incredible job building characters, so much so I felt like I disappointed someone I admire irl and I couldn't help but laugh at these rollercoasters of feelings associated to this game. One of the best rpgs without a doubt.
He has different dialogue depending on your outfit consistency like when you only wear police uniform. And at the end his revelation about my Harry's obsession with FALN collection is so funny.
As a psychology teacher, the internal dialog system was so fascinating to me. I can't recall if the game ever draws attention to it, or how obvious it is in the general pool of knowledge- but the "reptilian brain" is often referred to as our brain stem and in some cases, includes the cerebellum. The limbic system is the more advanced emotional and reward systems we mammals developed for the complex learned behaviors and socialization (sometimes it is even called the mammalian brain). Of course all the skills are aspects of the cerebral cortex- the pink intestines looking part people think of when picturing a brain. For humans, the networking in this region is far above that of other animals giving us these complex inner thoughts, the ability to ruminate on the past, creatively imagine, and to complexly plan or predict the future. I bring up the internal dialogue because it's something animal researches have been trying to determine the extent this exists in other animals, if at all. My point is this is playing on our neurology very interestingly to create a very personal and fulfilling experience regardless of diverse choices, endings, of player builds (which is what most rpgs focus on and require a much larger budget)
If I remember right the calls attention to it exactly once as a conversation option with Kim. You can comment on how he's taking a lot of notes and then ask about if he hears voices in his head. He basically responds by telling you that's just called thinking
I don't know if you ever saw the conversation with the Insulindian Phasmid from the end of the game, but that conversation very explicitly calls attention to that difference between human neurology and animal neurology, and the human condition in the face of that. It's a beautiful conversation that encapsulates many of the game's main themes very well.
The phasmid has a much much simpler thought process than the humans in the game, but it also has an innate understanding of Harry‘s role in the world of Disco Elysium, if cryptic. End game Spoiler: The Phasmid says that basically, the world in disco elysium is basically dependent on Harry consciously being aware of it. It‘s scared by Harry closing his eyes because then the world wouldn’t exist anymore. This can be something the Phasmid just believes to be the case in its special animal consciousness of understanding existence and how we know if things exist or not, and may be something it attributes to all humans, but in my opinion Harry has a truly special way of understanding the world, mostly expressed through skills that relay information that is not logically available to Harry, most notably when Shivers, Inland Empire and Esprit de Corps explain Happenings that Harry wasn’t even present for, or Harry literally talking to the spirit of the city of revachol, and when he perfectly follows conversations between colleagues that are kilometers away with esprit de corps. The fact that Inland Empire, though to easily swayed by magical thinking and believe in the occult when ordinary explanations are correct in the situation, understands through para normal sensing that danger is ahead or that the apocalypse is coming, which no Human should actually know or feel beside Harry. The game blends metaphysical „magical“ power with real, logical deduction in a very fitting way. Detective. Arriving. On the scene.
As Harry figures out, Kim is far from an objective spectator of the events of the game. A cop is a social function, and that is an element often ignored in detective stories. Realizing that Harry will have a concrete future that is affected by his decisions is more rooting the game in realism, encounter with a phasmid or not.
Yes exactly. The ending is about giving the final result of your relationship with Kim up to that point. Does he support and defend you after your adventure? Are you friends? Do you at least have his professional esteem? I think you need the ending the way it is, or the Kim angle of the story is left without a satisfying conclusion. It's also the meat of the gameplay, which is the pleasure of the game dynamically reacting to your choices. A static final ending wouldnt make sense.
Hi, I wanted to share my view about the ending of the game. Everyone feels that the game ends on a off note.. so much has happened in Harry's life throughout the game but his colleagues ridicule him, mock him and coldly pass judgements. This for me , is real life equivalent of finding yourself, finding your own purpose but being unable to convey it to others/ others not being interested in our life even though we've been continuously growing up and making things better. The game leaves us with this scene becuase it want us to be aware of the fact that no matter how much you fuck up, grow up, no matter what you do.. it'd stay with you.. it'll make you happy or sad. One thing your personal growth won't do is change the views of others towards you. I find it insanely deep and funny even.
Yeah, I thought it was natural for them to act like that. It was too much shit from him for too long, but I got support from katsuragi so it worked out fine.
Yeah,i saw this as like the the constant self deprecation of the beginning,but this time i was thinking myself" but i have reedemed myself,i have done things,i have changed fates,i have accomplished so much,this is not going to tear me down now".
also Harry really did actually fuck those people over. I thought Jean was a bit too harsh, but we have to remember that Jean has been dealing with Harry's shit for years, on top of having depression himself. they very much treat Harry like the irresponsible addict he has been for a long time, regardless of what he does during game time.
Regardless of my praise in the previous post - are you aware of these details, though? 1. That "forced to go through one skill check" problem with Ruby's building exists - BUT - can be circumnavigated in a wonderful fashion. I have never put a single point into Shivers during my first playthrough and therefore had around 3% success at that check. The game gives you plenty of opportunities to explore the surrounding areas and to complete other quests in the meantime. Quests that - if somewhat arbitrarily (one could argue that you get to know the city and therefore connect or "attune" to it, though) - add to your chance of success in this particular skill check. You are actually able to have around or close to 100% without ever spending a single point. Therefore, thorough exploration makes this point moot. 2. It actually is possible to sleep outside, under a boat, given that you actually "embraced" being a hobocop. Admittedly, it is available only after the third day. And it is actually really hard to not have enough money for the first two days at the hotel, as both these days have a possibility of getting help from Kim and/or the Four Pines representative lady, who just gives you the money (if you share your issue of actual inability to pay the rent with her). 3. The Tribunal sequence and the "judgmental circle ending" can actually play quite differently - Kim can get shot and you can recruit Cuno to be your sidekick for the ending, changing (quite significantly) the last leg of the journey and - most importantly - the very last dialogue. Cuno actually defends you in a hilarious, yet sensible way, and basically says something along the lines of your commentary - that you are now, effectively, beyond their judgment. That itself is pretty much worth replaying the entire damn game. 4. Replayability is actually higher than it might seem at first, as there is an interesting mechanics of skills popping up more often as you increase them. On my first playthrough, I have not put any points into the "red" skills and almost none to the "yellow" ones either - and I have patted myself on the back for this wise choice, as I have not encountered many skill checks that would make those skills worth investing into. This was all due to the fact that all my "blue and purple" skills were highly developed and therefore manifested themselves more - a player who did the exact opposite would, effectively, have a very similar experience of thinking that these skills are not utilized at all, as compared to his all-the-time-checked yellows and reds.
I don't really think that highlights much variability or depth. Disco is actually a very linear game. Talk to person A, which leads you to person B, then that unlocks person C. Etc. Same sequence, same events, practically the same outcome along the same path. Any possible variations along the way are pretty trivial aside from Kit dying. Like picking where you're going to sleep isn't a big deal.
@@JayTac1 I thought, in general, that the game should be replayable. Just to read the writing. In practice I found it a little dull the second time. All of these 'pick a dialogue option' games seem to railroad you down a narrow path just because it's financially efficient. Pillars of Eternity and Star Wars KOTOR both come to mind.
@@SomeGuy-zl1kp man then you definitely didn't understand the game at all then... Because within the game it even addresses that criticism in a very meta level.
@@Bhazor I'm not sure I'm happy about that direction, but this is one of the few stories where a sequel is needed not because of a cliff-hanger, but because it is more or less necessary for the PC to complete his character development. At the end of the game, it was noted that this wasn't the first time The Detective went black-out drunk and had an amnesia, and even if you played a Sorry-cop who mended relationships and solved the case perfectly, whether or not that actually sticks is a story worth exploring.
@Nick Tapalan 15:25 in "The Feature That Almost Sank Disco Elysium | Audio Logs" from Gamespot "[talking about building on the success of Disco Elysium] We want to build on it the way Baldur's Gate 2 did on Baldur's Gate 1. You know what I'd like to do I'd like to do more combat. [laughs] Very low brow and easy answer, I know but the skill combat and skill based combat when it finally got in, in the few instances where it is featured, and especially in the biggest instance it is featured. To me is so promising."
What he really meant with doing "more combat" was that he was particularly interested in exploring the human mind at these split second moments in life-or-dead situations. In the same interview he said they were working on a car crash as a possible scenario where their internal dialog system could be applied in new and interesting ways.
I disagree about the ending dialogue with your previous partner and friends being bad. As I didn't get the dream with the wife (and in fact didn't know it could happen until this video (I even skipped that part of the video because I'm going to do another play through)), it was the part of the story for me that wrapped up the mystery of Harry's identity. For me that's when a bow on Harry's past is placed and he decides to stumble forward into the future with a head held high. It also feels true to life for me. Have all the personal revelations you want, the world won't care and more importantly other people won't notice. They will still judge you from their perspective even if they are not qualified, even if there is a more qualified judge standing a few feet away from you. That's because the world ain't fair and the reality just sorta happens. But it's not a downer ending, because in spite of that, Harry still had his personal revelations, still spoke with the kind/terrifying/beautiful insect, is still an incredibly sensitive instrument, and even has a photograph to prove it. In the end the mundane world rears back in, but that's okay because you know the magic is real and the mundane can't deny that.
@@DATskorge The attention to detail aswell. It's so funny how Kim comment when trying to dance with the injured leg. ''What is going on? how are you dancing with that leg'' So many small things the developers thought to put in depending on when you do the quests.
I'm an idiot, can someone please explain to me what's the deal with Dubois and the goddess? My take is that he was a fervent believer who lost his faith and became resentful But I have no-ideas why or if I'm right
Actually the thing about "not having a final word on Harry's ex problem" is not completely true. By having high enough Inland Empire in my playthrough I had a final discussion with the Phasmid, where he asked Harry to move on and to forget his ex"
My favourite bit of foreshadowing for the ending is if you play Suzerainty with Kim, and a small, old sculpture of a revolutionary soldier is in the box. Both of you put it aside, figuring it for nothing. An old communist is unexpectedly waiting somewhere, where he doesn't really belong.
There's a lot I could say about this game after finishing it today, but I'll go for one I haven't seen anyone mention: it's hard to roleplay as an addict. Or more specifically, it's hard to roleplay as a _recovering_ addict (it would be easy enough to just pound back booze all the time). On one hand I was obviously rooting for Harry to clean up his act a bit, but his dependency is core to the story and it didn't feel right at all to just have him go cold-turkey the moment he booted up his volumetric shit compressor, especially with an electrochemistry stat constantly nagging at his thoughts. But what am I supposed to do then? Take a swig every time Harry thinks of the bottle until I level up volition? Pop some speed before bed each night, but in _gradually decreasing_ quantities? Maybe something like that would have made sense... but I really just ended up forgetting about the whole thing and making him go cold turkey by accident. Oops. I don't know if this is even a reasonable issue to bring up, but the game makes it too easy to fix Harry's substance abuse. The ancient reptile brain and limbic system can bitch all they want, the electrochemistry stat can pepper every dialogue box with temptation, but at the end of the day I'm trying to solve a murder and can't be bothered to obtain drugs for the sole purpose of fleshing out my character's purely extra-textual redemption arc. I don't feel like having a glass of wine to pass a stat check counts either- it's driven by mechanical utility instead of irrational habit. It might have been a pain in the ass in practice, but I think to really sell Harry's struggle the game would need to impose some nasty penalties for the withdrawal process- or impose skill checks simply to resist consuming drugs. _Something_ tangible in the game systems to prevent immediate rehabilitation from simply becoming the default option. Anyway that's my one unique thought... this game really got under my skin.
Just thought I'd say my bit, there's a game called Lisa: The Painful RPG that does kind of what you're suggesting. The protagonist is a recovering drug addict and suffers constant negative side effects from the withdraw, but if you use the drug, not only do you remove the negative side effects, but you also gain some positive ones too.
Just beat the game. I think it's one of the best gaming experiences I've had in probably my entire life, but if I had to give it a critique, it'd be this one. I was going to play the game cold turkey, but I was disappointed that the game made that extremely easy for me. I really expected SOMETHING to be wrong on day 2 when the game stressed how much Harry needed to get some speed...only for there to be zero mechanical reason to go get some speed. I figured I'd start suffering from lowered stats or something, but no.
I really enjoyed this game and all the Planescape vibes I got from it. But as someone who has struggled with (and beaten) heroin and alcoholism, your points definitely ring true.
@@skinnermclane4467 drugs are there to give you some stat boosts. If you did't require any drugs, tat just means you had a build that doesn't rely on drugs to get past certain checks
Theres an Idea that you can internalize called Reality Wasteland or something to that effect. What it is is Harry determining that he WILL sober up. Your reward for not just going cold turkey but going full in on sobering up? Nothing but 3 or 4 negative 1s to really important skills like suggestion. Save for a +1 to logic iirc. Besides that there is, through the dialogue, implying that the drugs after years of dependency has made getting high make Harry operate like he did before his addictions. The game punishes you for not doing drugs because you arent at optimal efficiency, like many alcoholics drinking a shot in the morning due to their dependency, and then punishing them further for COMMITTING to kicking your addictions. As far as i have found internalizing this Idea grants zero tangible benefits save for improved health months down the road.
I was really pleasantly surprised by the game's political aspect. If you compare to Outer Worlds, where the politics are actually more caricatures showing bad people doing what often feels like bad things for the sake of being bad, Disco Elysium shows caricatures of real-world ideologies, but in a way that really reflects how ideologies play out. You get the people acting in bad faith under a cloak of ideological purity, like the union organizer, but you also get the fanatic, like Measurehead. By talking to the politically-themed characters, you also see how ideologues really are in real life, both coherent and completely insane. Asking Measurehead to explain his racial theory is going down a rabbithole of arbitrary reasoning built on top of a pretty iffy premise that seems to make sense at first. But most importantly, you realize that it's not bad people perverting reasonable ideologies, it's the reverse, these people build up their identity and their social position through ideology, like René. Killing ideologues doesn't stop fascism, communism or liberalism. In a city like Revachon, the situation creates these extreme ideologies and the individuals get swept up. I think it's very believable for a polarized political setting, becaues in our own world, polarized political situations create real-life caricatures. I think that this comes from the fact that the game wasn't made in North America, where we seem to struggle so much with portraying politics and political ideologies in a realistic way. We can't seem to avoid portraying political characters as self-serving individuals, like in Far Cry 5. The dominant individualism that characterizes North American culture can't wrap its head around political ideologies, we always want to find the problem in individuals who've gone off the right path. Estonia was given to the Soviets, then conquered by the Nazis, then re-given to the Soviets and then experienced the fall of the USSR. They know about political ideologies, and I think an Estonian developer has insight into how ideologies translate to the real world in a way that North Americans can't really match.
i think it's a bit reductive to say that disco elysium's realistic portrayals of political ideologies stem from the estonian nationality of its developers - it frankly has more to do with them being marxists and as such striving to depict things through a nuanced analysis of material conditions rather than idealist notions of individualism. the developers explicitly thank marx and engels during award speeches for providing them with their political education.
@@baaaldur I didn't know that and I think that's interesting. I don't think it fully explains their capacity to write naturalistic yet caricatural characters of those ideologies, without falling into the oppositions you see in other (North American) games like good/evil, selfless/selfish, honest/hypocrite.
Yeah Outer Worlds came off particularly one-note. Like, yeah, corporate bad. We get it. Disco Elysium feels like it does the legwork about exactly *how* and *why* corporate bad, as well as why everything else is bad, in an interesting way.
Let me present a counter argument to your point on the game’s final conversation: it’s one of my most memorable scenes in the game, and the moment that really drove home what I felt was the game’s heartfelt message. Unlike your Harry, mine never really stopped picking up the bottle, or smoking a pack or two when he was stressed or needed to pass a skill check. Hell, Kim won’t tell you but Harry might have even picked up a speed habit from Kuno’s dad. My Harry spent six hours in the thought cabinet contemplating suicide, he was a sorry cop, he was very sorry when he established a meth lab in a church for money and more meth. He got his act together and solved the case with some bravado, but he was an undeniably broken man with not much future to look forward to, even after encountering the phasmid.--I think you’re right on the money that Disco’s main message is about the dangers of idealizing or refusing to move on from the past. The way this message was driven home, for me and my Harry, came in that final conversation when we came back to shore. I’m a disaster of a human being; I’ve ruined my relationship, damaged my body beyond repair, totaled my car, and this case being solved and recovering from my amnesia hasn’t seemed to fix any of that. But in the end, my friends don’t care. The people who work with me, who know me, they see the good in me I can’t see in myself. I’m such a good cop that Kim is coming to join our precinct. So even though the pale is going to destroy whatever’s left of the world after the nationalists and communists burn it down, even though I’ve made mistakes enough to make me hate myself, none of that matters to the people who still care about you, the only people that really matter. They’re even willing to drive you home. Doesn’t invalidate your argument, and I think you would find universal agreement that the game should have ended on a chat with Kim while he lights his daily cigarette. Thanks for this video, can’t seem to find anyone else on YT discussing this game and its spoilers in depth or with a critical eye, this critique was a pleasure.
It was a meaningful conversation, but an abrupt way to end the game. I thought the talk was a set-up for the "final chapter." Then.. credits rolled and ended my hype.
i think it's a great scene as well. i loved kim defending you and the two of you going over what you managed to get done by the end. but it just doesn't feel like a final scene. a 1 on 1 with kim or maybe a reptilian brain scene mirroring the opening would've gone a long way. it wouldn't even have to be some big extra scene - disco elysium already has numerous very climactic and very satisfying scenes that close off the story arcs by the end. the only issue is that it ends abruptly. this hypothetical final scene could even be extremely short and to the point. a nice quote or an interesting visual or anything. anything to deliver a smooth transition to the credits instead of a smash cut.
I believe the journey ends not when you get on the plane home, but when you step back into the routine of your daily life. So the dismissive and casual manner of the "tribunal" scene was exactly what was needed after the surreal and emotionally-laden encounters on the island. The romance of the mystery is over, back to mundane life, both for Harry and the player. While I was disappointed with the lack of options during the armed face-off (or even opportunity to avoid it altogether) and later parts, I didn't mind the last dialogue. It felt absolutely appropriate to me. Also, Disco Elysium > Planescape. (Sue me)
I think the replay value has increased drastically since the release of the final cut due to the political alignment quests.Since you have to commit to one ideology on day 3 and then your committed to it for the rest of the game along with it’s quest this gives you so much reason to replay the game thanks to how high quality these quests are. They introduce new characters,areas, features to your hud, etc. This motivated me to truly see it all in this game and it made me realize that one playthrough simply wasn’t enough, and even after 4 playthroughs I find myself wanting to dive back in. Truly one of the best games I’ve ever played.
I didn't give Final Cut a look because I assumed it wouldnt be relevant to me...are these new pol quests included as updated DLC or is that only available if ya buy it new?
oh really? wow on my first playthrough i rejected that quest cause i was like "im already accepting to do everything, i really don't have the time!", what a big mistake,
Gotta love when people claim "bEsT gAmE eVEr" about games that have undeniably shitty gameplay. GAME-PLAY, as in "that GAME is really FUN to PLAY" which Disco Elysium, with all it's praise, simply isn't. It's Writing-porn, a great interactive book. By far not a good game.
@@tydendurler9574 I think disco elysium is a blast to play. Seeing all the different play outs of the narrative and interacting with the world based on my choices is a blast to see play out. I’d rather replay disco elysium over wasteland 3, even though wasteland 3 has combat it just doesn’t have the level of love put into the world and it’s interactions to provide for an interesting replay. Gameplay is more than combat. It’s every moment spent while your in control of the game. It’s exploration, decision making, inventory/resource management. A game doesn’t have to be dexterity based to have great gameplay. Disco elysium is the perfect example.
@Peter Lustig Huh? Since when does "role-playing" means "non-linear plot"? Being "role-playing" is about "playing a role". And roles in this game are plenty.
Estonians have for a while wanted to be accepted as a Nordic country by us Scandinavians and the finnish, petitioning to change their flag to our cross design and still performing old pagan rituals from when we colonised them centuries ago. Despite this, weve never really taken them seriously, but if they keep producing games like this i might actually vouch for them, then one day they might earn the privilidge of being considered one of us Nords.
Isn't it amazing how skillfully written the dialogue and text is written in this game, such that a long conversation can be interrupted by different characterisations of the players internal monologue, yet the conversation still seems to flow naturally and doesn't become disjointed in any way....?
While all the characters were great in Disco Elysium, they did a particularly amazing job with Harry. He was genuinely lovable and memorable. Whoever drew his art really nailed it too.
I believe that the conversation in the end represents how the life of harry will be after this case because I for one would wonder how he will lead his life after everything. Kim is from another precinct so we would think they will never see each other again and harry could easily fall back into addiction and being in a bad state throughout his life so I think it was a great addition to the game especially the possibility of transferring Kim to our precinct. This ending could also be a representation of the motto that is After life death, after death, life again. We see harry had issues in the past during his life and he hit the rock bottom and we somehow took him from there and brought to a new possibility of a better life. This is of course the way I played the game and my outcome so thanks for the video and the information.
@@jddubisek9263 "played through" stopping you right there, im pretty sure based off his comments this dude has never even actually seen the game, let alone played it, let alone beating it lol
As of 02/10/2022, writer Alexander Rostov, lead writer Helen Hindpere and founder/secretary Martin Luiga have been fired by the investors, who Martin calls 'the money people'. Amazon has right to make adaptation of Disco Elysium, and the studio is hiring 'monetization specialist'. Make this however you will.
Finally got around it and damn, I love the cryptic worldbuilding and the extensive usage of different vocabulary for description and expression. Had to use an English dictionary quite a few times, but it's a pleasure to learn and research if writing is this engaging. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the interesting and memorable events that happened and it's pretty refreshing. Nice job presenting the game with as little spoilers as possible, but still establishing the core.
Disco Elysium is a game about the consequences of people clinging to the past while life moves on around them. Damn, this hit me so hard. Especially when I played this game at a period of my life where I was doing just that...
Thank you, seriously. Your videos are, traditionally, my favorite content on the entire Internet - nothing quite like it around here, really. Yet it seems to me that you outdo yourself every single time a new one pops out. I have thoroughly loved my time with this game (without necessarily being blind to certain issues it has) and your video has voiced and reflected my feelings, thoughts, and musings perfectly.
If you play sensitive, you can actually have a full blown conversation with the corpse and the phasmid- and the talk with the phasmid ACTUALLY LETS YOU MOVE ON FROM YOUR EX. You can talk with about so many things and it reveals that humans caused the pale, and you have a chance of putting your past behind you in a satisfying way.
I think the Tribunal tries to impart that there are some things outside the player character's control. No matter your stats or dice rolls, other characters are going to do things. You can try to mitigate their decisions, try to push events in a particular direction, but you can only control one alcoholic disaster cop; some things are just out of his control.
That part ruined the game for me and made me see a lot of flaws that my mind ignored. I wanted control since it was my character and the game stripped that away for me. It made everything I did, even playing the game feel pointless and a waste of time. There are things I like, but the bad outweigh the good, at least for me.
@@megamike15 replying late as hell but I agree with this so much. This happened with me and another game (Citizen Sleeper) and once you get to testing things do you realize how many things were going to occur regardless. Like the Tribunal happening directly after Ruby opposed to the 5 days Inland tells you that you have when talking to Joyce. It's kinda annoying honestly how much you didn't actually have in your control.
your videos are very thorough, enjoyable and insightful and i really enjoy your voice. disco elysium, despite its flaws, really touched that part of my brain that's been sleeping since planescape torment (perhaps stirring with some rare golden moments in tyranny or tides of numenera), and i'm also very happy to see games from eastern europe getting mainstream recognition. all in all, i'm looking forward to what za/um does next. (nitpick; it's pronounced za-oom, with a strong 'u'; it means literally "behind the mind" and figuratively "subconscious")
I had no idea how za/um was pronounced, so I just kinda went for something that might be right. Tbh i'm just glad people don't seem annoyed with the way I pronounce elysium, seeing as I say it 58 times.
Let me tell you where exactly Disco got it's claws in me, and what a lot of people don't seem to realize. I keep hearing what a piece of shit we are. And really the game pushes you to that conclusion, I mean look at how we are introduced to our character once we awake. But then I found my Police File... and some one we all agree is a rather upstanding person, our Partner, was even impressed. We worked, tirelessly to solve crimes. More than most, perhaps more than any. And in that pursuit we didn't just use fall guys or shoot people. In fact, we had shot 3 people in like 20 Years, in a time and place where Cops shot first and maybe never ask questions at all. From our Police Record our 3 shootings may even have been justified. THIS is where it got me. That this thing I do, I was GREAT at. And the reason my peers ACTUALLY mocked me was two-fold... (1) I was being great while doing things the right way, and they weren't capable of that and (2) somewhere along the way I broke, it became to much, and I was no longer the man I was. I was now low-hanging fruit, easily used as a punching bag. To my face they could now say the things, that in my prime that could only say behind my back. Disco is the story of the 'Once Great Man', and you can play that into a Redemption Arc, or you can take him further into the fall. But the fact is, we weren't a shit bag, we weren't a horrible human... we were ACTUALLY a Paragon, eventually broken by the horrors we faced. Because we lived in a paradox, where we solved more crimes than anyone, and yet there were always more crimes to be solved. No matter how much we protected, no matter how much we served... we existed to FOLLOW the horrors, while the horrors were always one step ahead of us. A dog chasing it's tail in a never ending cycle of horror and misery. Never getting to stop the problem, only getting to figure the problem out after the fact. I think many miss this about Disco. And while many already see it as a masterpiece, understanding this only enhances the greatness of Disco.
As to the ending with the police force as a recovering addict I think it was an important moment. You can go through enormous personal change and growth but when you've fucked up over and over people seeing you on one good day isn't enough. Rebuilding trust with the people around you takes time. They need to see you not change but STAY changed especially when you've hurt and let them down so much. it actually did speak to me a lot. That said I'd have loved a bit more of a moment with Kim too
Honestly the voice acting addition (added as a free upgrade) took the game from great to amazing to me. I have lots of concentration issues, and while I played the game before the upgrade as well, and found it one of the best games I've ever played, but after the upgrade, it made me appreciate it a lot more, and is still one of my Top 3 games of all time, because it just seems made for me personally, though I know it isn't.
The song of death is sweet and endless. The game struggels with the struggle of actually being alive. The plasmyd explains it`s existential experience, the lizard brain explains the evil monkeys duking it out. The whole idea of whether to exist and hurt or to stop existing. If you are at all philosophically inclined and enjoy an occasional mushroom trip - this game is pure joy. I maxed out my Conceptualization and was amazed at the ideas that kept popping up. Highly recommended.
Your content is honest, rich and well-made - thank you. Much needed in the late game review hype/hate madness. I played the final cut full audio version which gives additional quality by a very well chosen cast. I will never forget Kim Kitsuragi's voice and phrasing which made him even more of a true companion I cared about. I hope the vivid world they have created gets a second, bigger part or even an episode-based installment if that is more feasible for that small studio - 'Tales from Revachol' or something. The 'lore' of the game is already so inviting and deep that I'd gladly just spent time walking somewhere through the streets and talk to interesting characters.
I realised on day 1 that the personnalities couldn't be too trusted. With the young girl a succesful save makes you say dumb shit to her while with the old guys trusting the endurance succesful saves leads you to throw their ball in the sea for some reason.
Finally started playing the final cut, 13 hours in and I already can’t wait to start again with a different build. Love this soo much. Love the dream like psychedelic atmosphere, such profound and conversely perverse and moronic dialogues that allow so many brilliant and comic moments. It’s Magic…. Bring on the rest of my first play through. 🤗
Finished the game today. I agree on the ending, although the tone of the last dialogue felt fine to me, though that might be because I was accompanied by Cuno after Kim got shot. It felt quite heartwarming to be able to get him off drugs and into a junior cop programme. Kinda sad the fates of all the other characters, including Kim, were left up in the air though. That's my biggest issue with the ending.
Agh, the dream you discuss at 33:00 (spoiler territory) alone brought back memories - I'm already in tears. You were right that it lacks revelation but makes up for pure raw emotion. It's not angsty, it doesn't feel silly or self-defeating. Like she says - real darkness has love for a face. That love can be far more painful than we'd like to admit sometimes.
The part that the game requires passing the shivers check is only partially true - maybe that was changed in a patch or something but right now completing all the big side quests gives you so many modifiers you can easily get to a >80% chance at the skill check without actually putting any points into shivers.
idk what your beef with the ending is, Kim does exactly do what you say you wish for in the ending: he gives a judgement of your actions. he narrates your stats, basically, and defends you if youre worthy in his eyes. maybe you missed out on that somehow? i thought it was very satisfying to watch Kim defend you in front of these "strangers" (your former colleagues) who, from harry's perspective, should overcome their resentment towards you already. and Kim speaks up for you. DE leaves a lot loose ends on purpose, to create a sort of yearning. i think it does evoke that feeling perfectly. i think you're more used to "neat and tidy" endings videogames offer, cuz in the vast land of novels, and ending like this is common and to be expected. in retrospect i think DE gave surprisingly much closure. i would have hated to hear about dora/colores dei in the end again cuz my harry had already moved on. it is a game about moving on, in my opinion, i wouldnt make any sensein the denouement to dwell on ghosts of the past. otherwise great essay, let us know if u changed your opinion on the ending since then ETA: there is more than one way to access the building where ruby is
I just got done binging most of your videos, skipping only 3 or 4 about games that I didn't much care about, and I have to say, you've quickly become one of my favorite channels. Keep up the good work, I'm sure you will explode and become very popular with the quality of your videos.
I'm confused. I never internalized the "hobo-cop" thought, but I was under the impression that you could "use" benches around town to pass time. Although I never used them, I assumed the implication was that Harry would sleep on the bench for a few hours. Wouldn't this be what you need to do in order to continue the game if you don't pay rent? Excellent analysis as always.
You can use them to skip time, but the time stops passing shortly after 2am. You need the thought to actually sleep outside and get through to the next day
I internalized the hobocop archetype and used it to sleep in a dumpster when i didn't have enough money for the hostel. It gives you a game over screen which soft locked me, making me go back a few hours in saves so I could sell my bottles at the store. Strikes me as bad design for sleeping in a dumpster to be a game over screen when being a drunk, drug addled naked maniac sucking on a loaded gun in a room full of people is already a confirmed part of the character known by all. But then sleeping in a dumpster becomes the headline that destroys Harry's career?
@@tumeg8282 Whoa that's super strange. I didn't hit a did end on my one play through and kind of assumed that there wasn't a way to permanently screw up. I always got the impression that sleeping on the streets is a viable option, it really implies that it is. Glad I stuck to the hotel and then eventually the rental room.
At approximately 40:00 you say that the scene with Dora is the opportunity for closure, but the closure comes later with the phasmid The last thing the phasmid asks Harry is to try to forget her. As you say, the game is about people living in the past. The phasmid asks Harry to forget and the 3 dialog options we are presented with are I can't I will try I will This is the user been given the option to decide on what the closure will be, the user is putting themselves in Harry's shoes to decide how they will act, whether they will attempt to stop living in the past or not. Great video though :)
I only watched to the spoiler warning, cause i havent finished the game, yet. That being said, this game struck pretty close to home with me. I think what makes it work, is the (at least apparently so far for me) low stakes. You arent saving the world in this one. This one is about saving yourself (if you want it to be), and that´s pretty much it. What i would have wished for this game, though, despite the good writing, is more visual/audio support of what´s going on. You know, more "Show, dont tell!". A 2D-drawn-animation (consistent with the art style of the game) here, a sound (more) there... IMHO, the game doesnt take full advantage of the potential that the medium offers and relies too heavily on its writing, as good as it may be (i am not a vivid reader - i cant really tell). I would probably pay another 15$ for an optional art-pack to this game, that peppers it up in such a way. Also, imho, each day feels pretty static. Would be nice if people walked around a bit. Maybe only when you arent idling. Make time pass while walking. The clothes system: Yeah, it´s not that realistic perhaps, when you change in front of people, but in general it makes sense. If only the inventory had some sort of filter or sorting function. Also, the game could still use some "polish" on the menus. The map shows checks that are already inactive as being tryable "right now" for example, and the inventory still shows that there are new items, when there arent.
@@SMJSmoK That makes sense and I hope it´s true. What do you think about the "optional art-pack" idea? I mean, they could use that as standard for future games: Offer the basic version (earlier and cheaper than otherwise possible) for the more "frugal textists" and then an "Art"-dlc that makes it more accessible to the more spectacle-inclined, while also offering an additional reason for the "frugalists" to play through it again, at the same time?
@@redlorax5380 This is one of the only games where you're missing out if you don't fail rolls. Not only can the rewards be better but it's often funnier. The only exception is the creature at the end of the game. I felt extremely fortunate to pass the rolls interacting with it, but if it just runs away on a failed roll then I'd be shocked. That's the sort of content I'd be very upset at missing.
@@kingbranden1369 or the things you do to make a check. The authority check with Titus, i failed it for the longest time. So when all else was done, I took some speed and hallucinogens, put on my police cap and damn did Titus listen then. It was so damn funny
About writing: I think what some text (or story) heavy games miss is interactivity. A triumph of Torment and Disco Elysium aren’t just a high amount of well written text, but how much player interacts with those. That is something that Pillars of Eternity lacked (as much as I love that game). A cool and interesting as a lot of its narrative content was, it was also rather non-interactable. Games can get away with mostly uninteractive content, as long as it’s well paced, but in games where one spends a lot of time talking to people being able to say interesting things is a key. A plethora of interesting dialogue choices is what I remember about Planescape the most. It was stopping and thinking of what I will stay and do that stayed with me the most, and DiscoE is the game that recaptured that feeling best.
Your reviews are so well structured and well handled when it comes to spoilers. Also, the way you change the tone of the video, with just your voice, to reflect the mood being set in the game is perfect. When you want a scene to feel beautiful to behold, it does, I can feel it. Especially with a game like this
i know this video is 2yrs old but i cant help but add that the shivers check to find ruby you criticized is the only check in the entire game you have to pass to progress and to get the modifiers for it you have to do the side quests, throughout which you get to know martinaise and revachol on a much deeper personal level which to me is the true experience rather than the murder mystery. shivers itself is a skill where harry literally speaks to revachol itself, so making it the big checkpoint seemed pretty important narrative-wise. i do agree it gets pretty linear after that, but still personal (?) also i love jean 👍
Ohh its been a long long lonely wait on top of that mountain Planescape ehh finally we have someone who has scaled the narrative heights to stand with you at the top.
I wish there were more options for causal chatting with NPCs I really liked (especially kim). I get that it takes up in-game time, but still, I think it would have been nice to get some more dialogue options and to build bonds that might come in handy later when trying to find information. they do such an amazing job at creating complex NPCs and then don't let me talk to them? lame. also the phasmid scene was quite possibly my favorite scene in the entire game. so beautiful.
What a great game. I never even realized this is very similar to Planescape Tormen experience, yet it hooked me all the same. It was marvelous yet very painful experience (the story is really sad in both games).
You, as a player, definitely may feel that the final evaluation / ending is improper, unsatisfying or even not relevant. But I think for Harry it is important. He probably wants to feel validation for this insane week of hard work. But for his co-workers, that had to endure his atrocious behaviour for years, one week is simply nothing. A drop in the ocean. For me, it was an excellent ending, it slapped me straight out of fantasy. This journey is over. Now look around you. Apply what you learned and experienced. You. And Harrier as well.
"with a focus on being well-written instead of being fun to read" - You hit the nail on the head here. So many games are trying to become novels instead of engaging and enjoyable like Disco and Planescape..Planescape didn't just have amazing descriptions and writing in general, it had downright hilarious situations, engaging takes on atmospheres, wild and inconceivable ideas like making objects be able to speak similar to how Disco made the neck-tie talk to you..the list goes on. Great review
I just finished Disco last night (couldn’t just stop, save and complete the last stretch tonight 😁). Now I find myself getting to work drinking coffee like no tomorrow to compensate for barely no sleep… and OMG it worth it! Every minute of it. Disco literally swallowed me into its dystopian yet so fascinating reality. Rarely I felt so connected to a character playing a game…I genuinely shedded tears when I ‘’lived’’ the final revelation of past love now gone scene. Like you said, at that point I had mostly connected the dots and knew what was coming… yet the moment was truly emotional. An absolute banger must be played game! PS : you are 110% right about the last dialogue…it felt like a first third of the game moment where conversation are both goofy/light and yet throwing some more bits of info to get a better big picture…. And then they just walk away… and final credits kicked in. 😢 I just stared at the screen wishing for something happening of after… just minimally being able to still and walk around and complete some unfinished side quests…. Nope ! Back to main screen and your last save is before the whole 1-2 hours final showdown PSS : my best side quest is HARDCORE ! 😏
This is a great video. I don’t agree with it all, but I do like how you we’re able to point out flaws while not running the game into the ground. The final conversation didn’t bother me, but I definitely thought it was bullshit how you had to pay an exorbitant fee to stay at the hotel on the first day, yet for most of the rest of the game, you don’t have to pay much at all. I hope we get more characters like Harry as well. I’m getting a bit tired of power fantasy characters. Give me more real, flawed, broken playable characters.
I love the section on story cliches; it reminded me of the movie "Pulp Fiction," which is highly original despite of (or because of?) its self-aware cliches.
Men, your critiques and observations always hit me hard, so very well thought of and structuralised, delivered with a smooth and suave voice. Even thought, at times, you have destroyed some perfection nests in my head (like with the Witcher 3), I always find it fascinating to listen to what you have to say about a game that has impacted me in some way. I hope you can continue with what you're doing, it's really good. Speaking of which, I really hope one day you can talk about the most hardcore game of all time for me : Pathologic 2. GL HF.
Planescape Torment wasn't a commercial success in the US, but it was very popular in Poland. My guess is that it was the case also for other post-communist countries, like Estonia where Disco Elysium originated.
About the end: I have to disagree with your comments about Harry being better now and the conversation therefore making no sense. I think it still makes sense because DE is about the world and human existence being fundamentally broken and tragic. As I see it the question posed throughout the game is whether such a world and such an existence is worth experiencing or whether it is perhaps best surrendered to the pale or to suicide respectively. Isn't it better not to exist? And I think the answer the game shows is that there is something beautiful about struggling and surviving within that brokenness and not in spite of it. Harry is still a shit at the end of the game, but the prism of this shitty world is angled differently now to see what beauty can be rescued from it. Great game, great video.
Just a friendly heads up for people who like Planescape: Torment and Disco Elysium, those games didn't sprout out of thin air. They had a grand daddy called Ultima 7 along with its extension, Serpent Isle. Try them out.
@@megamike15 U7's combat is horrible, similar to Torment. No one plays/played U7 for the fights, as opposed to baldur's gate. The NPCs, dialogue (there's a lot of it) puzzles and the feeling of slowly piecing out an unfolding mystery is what the game's about. Most version of U7 come with the Silver Seed extension, which is a very well written quest that maxes out and then doubles the Avatar's stats, on top of giving him a sword that if talked to can kill anything in one hit... Definitely not a combat centric game like BG. There's less fighting encounters in U7 than Torment... Baldur's Gate's grandfathers are the Goldbox games. DND based games with great linear stories like Pool of Radiance, Champions of Krynn, Curse of the Azure Bonds, culminating in the masterpiece that is Dark Sun: Shattered Lands. A game with multiple paths to quest resolutions that is difficult to not compare to the original Fallout.
I've never played a CRPG in my life. And I'm not really one for reading either. For some reason I decided to try out Disco Elysium. Holy shit. I felt that. Never played a game like that in my life. And I immediately wanted more. In searching for games similar to Disco Elysium I'm finding that there's really none quite like it. Sure there are other CRPGs, but I'm not a fan of D&D and the whole fantasy setting with goblins and ghouls and elves and dwarves and whatever the hell else. It's just so overdone it seems generic to me. It's boring. I hope more game studios in the future take notes on Disco Elysium and we start to see more games like it. Truly an unforgettable experience.
The only game that felt narratively similar to me was tyranny. Had great choices that really impact the world. Combat isn't anything special, but it is a good intro to CRPGs as it's more simple than baldurs gate. I really couldn't understand baldurs gate until I played tyranny and divinity original sin.
You can call it generic without actually playing the games? Many of them have similar tropes but what makes them good/unique is the great writing and innovation of those tropes. Planescape Torment and Tyranny for example.
Kim will provide a means to help you with the hotel rent. Although I presume it would be just once and you are on your own. I am guessing the dev expected the players to be conscious of the money you have until you unlock the shack. I do hope ZA/UM can continue their success with their future games.
have just finished the game. watched several videos about it and didnt finish them. this was the only one I watched all the way through, very well done and thanks for making it.
I just picked this up today Im glad I watched your analysis to better understand what Im going into since Ive never really explored this genre before. Appreciate that you put the spoiler warnings at the end too. I really love all of your content you really have a way of understanding and exploring the medium of gaming in a way that few others on this platform can.
Those little things could be fixed with more budget and more time, but the game have a inside story about how a game developer was running out of money and time, and becoming more ambitious with its game despite that. I believe they wanted to have an more open ended ending and more mechanics, but if they do that the game would never come out. And despite that, they made a amazing game that put the capitals RPG back in the genre. The Outer World's come in the same time, and in comparison, the text and choices looks archaic.
Love this game even if it's more a VN than a game, great writing, I was so enthralled by the setting and world I honestly really felt like I was playing PT for the first time again. I know it has problems but I enjoyed it thouroghly so I'm able to look past those problems. Definetly my favourite game of the year.
Thank you so much for your reviews! I was very positively surprised when I found them for the first time, because I had never before seen such thorough and insightful analyses and interpretations of computer games. Very refreshing!
![Judicial Opinions: What Makes Disco Elysium a Modern Classic? [Full Spoilers]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n_7ngJDbUQE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
I used to swap around articles of clothing to pass checks until Kim pulled me side to talk to me about my questionable fashion sense. The game does an incredible job building characters, so much so I felt like I disappointed someone I admire irl and I couldn't help but laugh at these rollercoasters of feelings associated to this game. One of the best rpgs without a doubt.
He is, after all, the fashion police
It's the Galmrock Shuffle i tell ya
He has different dialogue depending on your outfit consistency like when you only wear police uniform. And at the end his revelation about my Harry's obsession with FALN collection is so funny.
As a psychology teacher, the internal dialog system was so fascinating to me. I can't recall if the game ever draws attention to it, or how obvious it is in the general pool of knowledge- but the "reptilian brain" is often referred to as our brain stem and in some cases, includes the cerebellum. The limbic system is the more advanced emotional and reward systems we mammals developed for the complex learned behaviors and socialization (sometimes it is even called the mammalian brain). Of course all the skills are aspects of the cerebral cortex- the pink intestines looking part people think of when picturing a brain. For humans, the networking in this region is far above that of other animals giving us these complex inner thoughts, the ability to ruminate on the past, creatively imagine, and to complexly plan or predict the future. I bring up the internal dialogue because it's something animal researches have been trying to determine the extent this exists in other animals, if at all. My point is this is playing on our neurology very interestingly to create a very personal and fulfilling experience regardless of diverse choices, endings, of player builds (which is what most rpgs focus on and require a much larger budget)
If I remember right the calls attention to it exactly once as a conversation option with Kim. You can comment on how he's taking a lot of notes and then ask about if he hears voices in his head. He basically responds by telling you that's just called thinking
I don't know if you ever saw the conversation with the Insulindian Phasmid from the end of the game, but that conversation very explicitly calls attention to that difference between human neurology and animal neurology, and the human condition in the face of that. It's a beautiful conversation that encapsulates many of the game's main themes very well.
@@eldonhill4840 not that anthropocentric of a message, mostly referent of 'simpler' insects
The phasmid has a much much simpler thought process than the humans in the game, but it also has an innate understanding of Harry‘s role in the world of Disco Elysium, if cryptic.
End game Spoiler:
The Phasmid says that basically, the world in disco elysium is basically dependent on Harry consciously being aware of it. It‘s scared by Harry closing his eyes because then the world wouldn’t exist anymore. This can be something the Phasmid just believes to be the case in its special animal consciousness of understanding existence and how we know if things exist or not, and may be something it attributes to all humans, but in my opinion Harry has a truly special way of understanding the world, mostly expressed through skills that relay information that is not logically available to Harry, most notably when Shivers, Inland Empire and Esprit de Corps explain Happenings that Harry wasn’t even present for, or Harry literally talking to the spirit of the city of revachol, and when he perfectly follows conversations between colleagues that are kilometers away with esprit de corps.
The fact that Inland Empire, though to easily swayed by magical thinking and believe in the occult when ordinary explanations are correct in the situation, understands through para normal sensing that danger is ahead or that the apocalypse is coming, which no Human should actually know or feel beside Harry.
The game blends metaphysical „magical“ power with real, logical deduction in a very fitting way.
Detective.
Arriving.
On the scene.
So what you’re saying I should smoke crack and eat cats
As Harry figures out, Kim is far from an objective spectator of the events of the game. A cop is a social function, and that is an element often ignored in detective stories. Realizing that Harry will have a concrete future that is affected by his decisions is more rooting the game in realism, encounter with a phasmid or not.
Yes exactly. The ending is about giving the final result of your relationship with Kim up to that point. Does he support and defend you after your adventure? Are you friends? Do you at least have his professional esteem? I think you need the ending the way it is, or the Kim angle of the story is left without a satisfying conclusion. It's also the meat of the gameplay, which is the pleasure of the game dynamically reacting to your choices. A static final ending wouldnt make sense.
There is some serious raw untapped talent and creativity in eastern Europe that keeps taking off. It's exciting to see and hope for the future
I'd highly recommend checking out Pathologic 2.
@@markhall2021and Darkwood
So much pain caused in Eastern Europe / The Balkans in general it's amazing there isn't MORE stuff out there.
@@DarthVader19991 There is if you look for it. STALKER, Underrail, Hooded Horse gmes from Poland, etc
Hi, I wanted to share my view about the ending of the game.
Everyone feels that the game ends on a off note.. so much has happened in Harry's life throughout the game but his colleagues ridicule him, mock him and coldly pass judgements.
This for me , is real life equivalent of finding yourself, finding your own purpose but being unable to convey it to others/ others not being interested in our life even though we've been continuously growing up and making things better.
The game leaves us with this scene becuase it want us to be aware of the fact that no matter how much you fuck up, grow up, no matter what you do.. it'd stay with you.. it'll make you happy or sad. One thing your personal growth won't do is change the views of others towards you.
I find it insanely deep and funny even.
Yeah, I thought it was natural for them to act like that. It was too much shit from him for too long, but I got support from katsuragi so it worked out fine.
Yeah,i saw this as like the the constant self deprecation of the beginning,but this time i was thinking myself" but i have reedemed myself,i have done things,i have changed fates,i have accomplished so much,this is not going to tear me down now".
also Harry really did actually fuck those people over. I thought Jean was a bit too harsh, but we have to remember that Jean has been dealing with Harry's shit for years, on top of having depression himself. they very much treat Harry like the irresponsible addict he has been for a long time, regardless of what he does during game time.
Exactly. Thank you!
@@erikaleo5469 All very realistic, but also poor storytelling.
Regardless of my praise in the previous post - are you aware of these details, though?
1. That "forced to go through one skill check" problem with Ruby's building exists - BUT - can be circumnavigated in a wonderful fashion. I have never put a single point into Shivers during my first playthrough and therefore had around 3% success at that check. The game gives you plenty of opportunities to explore the surrounding areas and to complete other quests in the meantime. Quests that - if somewhat arbitrarily (one could argue that you get to know the city and therefore connect or "attune" to it, though) - add to your chance of success in this particular skill check. You are actually able to have around or close to 100% without ever spending a single point. Therefore, thorough exploration makes this point moot.
2. It actually is possible to sleep outside, under a boat, given that you actually "embraced" being a hobocop. Admittedly, it is available only after the third day. And it is actually really hard to not have enough money for the first two days at the hotel, as both these days have a possibility of getting help from Kim and/or the Four Pines representative lady, who just gives you the money (if you share your issue of actual inability to pay the rent with her).
3. The Tribunal sequence and the "judgmental circle ending" can actually play quite differently - Kim can get shot and you can recruit Cuno to be your sidekick for the ending, changing (quite significantly) the last leg of the journey and - most importantly - the very last dialogue. Cuno actually defends you in a hilarious, yet sensible way, and basically says something along the lines of your commentary - that you are now, effectively, beyond their judgment. That itself is pretty much worth replaying the entire damn game.
4. Replayability is actually higher than it might seem at first, as there is an interesting mechanics of skills popping up more often as you increase them. On my first playthrough, I have not put any points into the "red" skills and almost none to the "yellow" ones either - and I have patted myself on the back for this wise choice, as I have not encountered many skill checks that would make those skills worth investing into. This was all due to the fact that all my "blue and purple" skills were highly developed and therefore manifested themselves more - a player who did the exact opposite would, effectively, have a very similar experience of thinking that these skills are not utilized at all, as compared to his all-the-time-checked yellows and reds.
I did not know number 2
This dude gets it.
I don't really think that highlights much variability or depth. Disco is actually a very linear game. Talk to person A, which leads you to person B, then that unlocks person C. Etc. Same sequence, same events, practically the same outcome along the same path. Any possible variations along the way are pretty trivial aside from Kit dying. Like picking where you're going to sleep isn't a big deal.
@@JayTac1 I thought, in general, that the game should be replayable. Just to read the writing. In practice I found it a little dull the second time. All of these 'pick a dialogue option' games seem to railroad you down a narrow path just because it's financially efficient. Pillars of Eternity and Star Wars KOTOR both come to mind.
@@SomeGuy-zl1kp man then you definitely didn't understand the game at all then...
Because within the game it even addresses that criticism in a very meta level.
I'm really interested in what the devs do after such a critical success in Disco Elysium.
The writer has confirmed they're working on a sequel which he wants to focus more on "combat" like the fire fight sequence.
@@Bhazor I'm not sure I'm happy about that direction, but this is one of the few stories where a sequel is needed not because of a cliff-hanger, but because it is more or less necessary for the PC to complete his character development. At the end of the game, it was noted that this wasn't the first time The Detective went black-out drunk and had an amnesia, and even if you played a Sorry-cop who mended relationships and solved the case perfectly, whether or not that actually sticks is a story worth exploring.
@Nick Tapalan
15:25 in "The Feature That Almost Sank Disco Elysium | Audio Logs" from Gamespot
"[talking about building on the success of Disco Elysium] We want to build on it the way Baldur's Gate 2 did on Baldur's Gate 1. You know what I'd like to do I'd like to do more combat. [laughs] Very low brow and easy answer, I know but the skill combat and skill based combat when it finally got in, in the few instances where it is featured, and especially in the biggest instance it is featured. To me is so promising."
What he really meant with doing "more combat" was that he was particularly interested in exploring the human mind at these split second moments in life-or-dead situations. In the same interview he said they were working on a car crash as a possible scenario where their internal dialog system could be applied in new and interesting ways.
The same thing every single other developer would do: make a sequel.
I disagree about the ending dialogue with your previous partner and friends being bad. As I didn't get the dream with the wife (and in fact didn't know it could happen until this video (I even skipped that part of the video because I'm going to do another play through)), it was the part of the story for me that wrapped up the mystery of Harry's identity. For me that's when a bow on Harry's past is placed and he decides to stumble forward into the future with a head held high.
It also feels true to life for me. Have all the personal revelations you want, the world won't care and more importantly other people won't notice. They will still judge you from their perspective even if they are not qualified, even if there is a more qualified judge standing a few feet away from you. That's because the world ain't fair and the reality just sorta happens. But it's not a downer ending, because in spite of that, Harry still had his personal revelations, still spoke with the kind/terrifying/beautiful insect, is still an incredibly sensitive instrument, and even has a photograph to prove it. In the end the mundane world rears back in, but that's okay because you know the magic is real and the mundane can't deny that.
Disco is secretly a clicker game harvesting your double clicks for click farms.
You can single click to run by pressing CAPSLOCK or by holding SHIFT
The scene where you give the figurines to the goddess. That whole conversation. Man, I’ve never felt so bad for a character in a game before.
I liked the kiss.
"Suggestion - Brother, you should put me in front of a firing squad. I have no words for how I have failed you."
The goddess, going full disco and getting kim to dance along, meeting latino spiderman... that church was amazing
@@DATskorge The attention to detail aswell. It's so funny how Kim comment when trying to dance with the injured leg. ''What is going on? how are you dancing with that leg'' So many small things the developers thought to put in depending on when you do the quests.
I'm an idiot, can someone please explain to me what's the deal with Dubois and the goddess?
My take is that he was a fervent believer who lost his faith and became resentful
But I have no-ideas why or if I'm right
@@Rise65487 He treats his exwife as the goddess
Actually the thing about "not having a final word on Harry's ex problem" is not completely true. By having high enough Inland Empire in my playthrough I had a final discussion with the Phasmid, where he asked Harry to move on and to forget his ex"
For all the crazy shit Inland Empire would say, the pay-off was worth it!
A fine reward for wearing that horrible necktie all game
Spoiler here:
The main menu view is of the city from the sniper nest.
Holy shit
Bro thank you so much for this comment. When I looked at the menu after finishing the game I was wondering where the island was. All makes sense now.
@@aidangillard2041 I know! Who would of thunk that the ending was hinted at from the very beginning.
So what you're saying is that my wallpaper.... oh god
My favourite bit of foreshadowing for the ending is if you play Suzerainty with Kim, and a small, old sculpture of a revolutionary soldier is in the box. Both of you put it aside, figuring it for nothing.
An old communist is unexpectedly waiting somewhere, where he doesn't really belong.
There's a lot I could say about this game after finishing it today, but I'll go for one I haven't seen anyone mention: it's hard to roleplay as an addict. Or more specifically, it's hard to roleplay as a _recovering_ addict (it would be easy enough to just pound back booze all the time). On one hand I was obviously rooting for Harry to clean up his act a bit, but his dependency is core to the story and it didn't feel right at all to just have him go cold-turkey the moment he booted up his volumetric shit compressor, especially with an electrochemistry stat constantly nagging at his thoughts. But what am I supposed to do then? Take a swig every time Harry thinks of the bottle until I level up volition? Pop some speed before bed each night, but in _gradually decreasing_ quantities? Maybe something like that would have made sense... but I really just ended up forgetting about the whole thing and making him go cold turkey by accident. Oops.
I don't know if this is even a reasonable issue to bring up, but the game makes it too easy to fix Harry's substance abuse. The ancient reptile brain and limbic system can bitch all they want, the electrochemistry stat can pepper every dialogue box with temptation, but at the end of the day I'm trying to solve a murder and can't be bothered to obtain drugs for the sole purpose of fleshing out my character's purely extra-textual redemption arc. I don't feel like having a glass of wine to pass a stat check counts either- it's driven by mechanical utility instead of irrational habit. It might have been a pain in the ass in practice, but I think to really sell Harry's struggle the game would need to impose some nasty penalties for the withdrawal process- or impose skill checks simply to resist consuming drugs. _Something_ tangible in the game systems to prevent immediate rehabilitation from simply becoming the default option. Anyway that's my one unique thought... this game really got under my skin.
Just thought I'd say my bit, there's a game called Lisa: The Painful RPG that does kind of what you're suggesting. The protagonist is a recovering drug addict and suffers constant negative side effects from the withdraw, but if you use the drug, not only do you remove the negative side effects, but you also gain some positive ones too.
Just beat the game. I think it's one of the best gaming experiences I've had in probably my entire life, but if I had to give it a critique, it'd be this one. I was going to play the game cold turkey, but I was disappointed that the game made that extremely easy for me.
I really expected SOMETHING to be wrong on day 2 when the game stressed how much Harry needed to get some speed...only for there to be zero mechanical reason to go get some speed. I figured I'd start suffering from lowered stats or something, but no.
I really enjoyed this game and all the Planescape vibes I got from it. But as someone who has struggled with (and beaten) heroin and alcoholism, your points definitely ring true.
@@skinnermclane4467 drugs are there to give you some stat boosts. If you did't require any drugs, tat just means you had a build that doesn't rely on drugs to get past certain checks
Theres an Idea that you can internalize called Reality Wasteland or something to that effect.
What it is is Harry determining that he WILL sober up. Your reward for not just going cold turkey but going full in on sobering up?
Nothing but 3 or 4 negative 1s to really important skills like suggestion.
Save for a +1 to logic iirc.
Besides that there is, through the dialogue, implying that the drugs after years of dependency has made getting high make Harry operate like he did before his addictions.
The game punishes you for not doing drugs because you arent at optimal efficiency, like many alcoholics drinking a shot in the morning due to their dependency, and then punishing them further for COMMITTING to kicking your addictions.
As far as i have found internalizing this Idea grants zero tangible benefits save for improved health months down the road.
I was really pleasantly surprised by the game's political aspect. If you compare to Outer Worlds, where the politics are actually more caricatures showing bad people doing what often feels like bad things for the sake of being bad, Disco Elysium shows caricatures of real-world ideologies, but in a way that really reflects how ideologies play out. You get the people acting in bad faith under a cloak of ideological purity, like the union organizer, but you also get the fanatic, like Measurehead. By talking to the politically-themed characters, you also see how ideologues really are in real life, both coherent and completely insane. Asking Measurehead to explain his racial theory is going down a rabbithole of arbitrary reasoning built on top of a pretty iffy premise that seems to make sense at first. But most importantly, you realize that it's not bad people perverting reasonable ideologies, it's the reverse, these people build up their identity and their social position through ideology, like René. Killing ideologues doesn't stop fascism, communism or liberalism. In a city like Revachon, the situation creates these extreme ideologies and the individuals get swept up. I think it's very believable for a polarized political setting, becaues in our own world, polarized political situations create real-life caricatures.
I think that this comes from the fact that the game wasn't made in North America, where we seem to struggle so much with portraying politics and political ideologies in a realistic way. We can't seem to avoid portraying political characters as self-serving individuals, like in Far Cry 5. The dominant individualism that characterizes North American culture can't wrap its head around political ideologies, we always want to find the problem in individuals who've gone off the right path. Estonia was given to the Soviets, then conquered by the Nazis, then re-given to the Soviets and then experienced the fall of the USSR. They know about political ideologies, and I think an Estonian developer has insight into how ideologies translate to the real world in a way that North Americans can't really match.
i think it's a bit reductive to say that disco elysium's realistic portrayals of political ideologies stem from the estonian nationality of its developers - it frankly has more to do with them being marxists and as such striving to depict things through a nuanced analysis of material conditions rather than idealist notions of individualism. the developers explicitly thank marx and engels during award speeches for providing them with their political education.
@@baaaldur I didn't know that and I think that's interesting. I don't think it fully explains their capacity to write naturalistic yet caricatural characters of those ideologies, without falling into the oppositions you see in other (North American) games like good/evil, selfless/selfish, honest/hypocrite.
Yeah Outer Worlds came off particularly one-note. Like, yeah, corporate bad. We get it.
Disco Elysium feels like it does the legwork about exactly *how* and *why* corporate bad, as well as why everything else is bad, in an interesting way.
@Deborah Meltrozo Joyce was a pretty deep character, no? I think shes a good representation of self-believing, self-motivated capitalism
@Deborah Meltrozo Yeah i was quite charmed by her, she was interesting to talk to
Let me present a counter argument to your point on the game’s final conversation: it’s one of my most memorable scenes in the game, and the moment that really drove home what I felt was the game’s heartfelt message. Unlike your Harry, mine never really stopped picking up the bottle, or smoking a pack or two when he was stressed or needed to pass a skill check. Hell, Kim won’t tell you but Harry might have even picked up a speed habit from Kuno’s dad. My Harry spent six hours in the thought cabinet contemplating suicide, he was a sorry cop, he was very sorry when he established a meth lab in a church for money and more meth. He got his act together and solved the case with some bravado, but he was an undeniably broken man with not much future to look forward to, even after encountering the phasmid.--I think you’re right on the money that Disco’s main message is about the dangers of idealizing or refusing to move on from the past. The way this message was driven home, for me and my Harry, came in that final conversation when we came back to shore. I’m a disaster of a human being; I’ve ruined my relationship, damaged my body beyond repair, totaled my car, and this case being solved and recovering from my amnesia hasn’t seemed to fix any of that. But in the end, my friends don’t care. The people who work with me, who know me, they see the good in me I can’t see in myself. I’m such a good cop that Kim is coming to join our precinct. So even though the pale is going to destroy whatever’s left of the world after the nationalists and communists burn it down, even though I’ve made mistakes enough to make me hate myself, none of that matters to the people who still care about you, the only people that really matter. They’re even willing to drive you home.
Doesn’t invalidate your argument, and I think you would find universal agreement that the game should have ended on a chat with Kim while he lights his daily cigarette. Thanks for this video, can’t seem to find anyone else on YT discussing this game and its spoilers in depth or with a critical eye, this critique was a pleasure.
It was a meaningful conversation, but an abrupt way to end the game. I thought the talk was a set-up for the "final chapter." Then.. credits rolled and ended my hype.
i think it's a great scene as well. i loved kim defending you and the two of you going over what you managed to get done by the end. but it just doesn't feel like a final scene. a 1 on 1 with kim or maybe a reptilian brain scene mirroring the opening would've gone a long way. it wouldn't even have to be some big extra scene - disco elysium already has numerous very climactic and very satisfying scenes that close off the story arcs by the end. the only issue is that it ends abruptly. this hypothetical final scene could even be extremely short and to the point. a nice quote or an interesting visual or anything. anything to deliver a smooth transition to the credits instead of a smash cut.
Same, my raphael was such a disaster narc and drunk person, but a very good detective who discovered a new species
I don't think the pale is an event that'll effect the world but more it's something that will end YOUR world so to speak.
pretty much the only part of the video I didnt completely agree with - well put.
I believe the journey ends not when you get on the plane home, but when you step back into the routine of your daily life.
So the dismissive and casual manner of the "tribunal" scene was exactly what was needed after the surreal and emotionally-laden encounters on the island. The romance of the mystery is over, back to mundane life, both for Harry and the player.
While I was disappointed with the lack of options during the armed face-off (or even opportunity to avoid it altogether) and later parts, I didn't mind the last dialogue. It felt absolutely appropriate to me.
Also, Disco Elysium > Planescape. (Sue me)
I think the replay value has increased drastically since the release of the final cut due to the political alignment quests.Since you have to commit to one ideology on day 3 and then your committed to it for the rest of the game along with it’s quest this gives you so much reason to replay the game thanks to how high quality these quests are. They introduce new characters,areas, features to your hud, etc. This motivated me to truly see it all in this game and it made me realize that one playthrough simply wasn’t enough, and even after 4 playthroughs I find myself wanting to dive back in. Truly one of the best games I’ve ever played.
I didn't give Final Cut a look because I assumed it wouldnt be relevant to me...are these new pol quests included as updated DLC or is that only available if ya buy it new?
oh really? wow on my first playthrough i rejected that quest cause i was like "im already accepting to do everything, i really don't have the time!", what a big mistake,
Gotta love when people claim "bEsT gAmE eVEr" about games that have undeniably shitty gameplay. GAME-PLAY, as in "that GAME is really FUN to PLAY" which Disco Elysium, with all it's praise, simply isn't. It's Writing-porn, a great interactive book. By far not a good game.
@@tydendurler9574 I think disco elysium is a blast to play. Seeing all the different play outs of the narrative and interacting with the world based on my choices is a blast to see play out. I’d rather replay disco elysium over wasteland 3, even though wasteland 3 has combat it just doesn’t have the level of love put into the world and it’s interactions to provide for an interesting replay. Gameplay is more than combat. It’s every moment spent while your in control of the game. It’s exploration, decision making, inventory/resource management. A game doesn’t have to be dexterity based to have great gameplay. Disco elysium is the perfect example.
@@tydendurler9574 what games would you consider to have great gameplay/ be good games by your definition?
Your critiques and retrospectives are excellent. Thanks for your work.
The phone call to Dora, one of the saddest, most emotional gaming moments in history!
In a word: Disco Elysium - Pure RPG.
The dream was even sadder tho, so heavy
@Peter Lustig Fair criticism, but we could do without insults mate.
@Peter Lustig "your stupid" *you're stupid
Pure RPG lmao. I certainly enjoyed the illusion while it lasted, but in retrospective the game isn't so great.
@Peter Lustig Huh? Since when does "role-playing" means "non-linear plot"? Being "role-playing" is about "playing a role". And roles in this game are plenty.
"... from a previously unknown country called Estonia"
Estonians: *surprised Pikachu face*
Estonians have for a while wanted to be accepted as a Nordic country by us Scandinavians and the finnish, petitioning to change their flag to our cross design and still performing old pagan rituals from when we colonised them centuries ago. Despite this, weve never really taken them seriously, but if they keep producing games like this i might actually vouch for them, then one day they might earn the privilidge of being considered one of us Nords.
@@incredibilis1307 most retarded shit i've read today
@@gustavvaip1600 ikr! They belong with us, slavs. Not the nords
i hope both of you are joking... estonians want neither, you both wish
this thread is playing out like one of the internal dialogues from the game lol
Isn't it amazing how skillfully written the dialogue and text is written in this game, such that a long conversation can be interrupted by different characterisations of the players internal monologue, yet the conversation still seems to flow naturally and doesn't become disjointed in any way....?
While all the characters were great in Disco Elysium, they did a particularly amazing job with Harry. He was genuinely lovable and memorable. Whoever drew his art really nailed it too.
Your channel might be making incremental progress, but your videos are truly HardCore.
But I'm thinking could it be... more HARDCORE?
HARDCORE TO THE MEGA.
But... Is it?
*HARD CORE YEEAAHH*
I believe that the conversation in the end represents how the life of harry will be after this case because I for one would wonder how he will lead his life after everything. Kim is from another precinct so we would think they will never see each other again and harry could easily fall back into addiction and being in a bad state throughout his life so I think it was a great addition to the game especially the possibility of transferring Kim to our precinct.
This ending could also be a representation of the motto that is After life death, after death, life again. We see harry had issues in the past during his life and he hit the rock bottom and we somehow took him from there and brought to a new possibility of a better life. This is of course the way I played the game and my outcome so thanks for the video and the information.
"Choices matter"
Shows clip of Walking Dead.
Nice troll.
@Peter Lustig Thats also just fucking wrong, im almost 100% sure you didnt even play the game and if you did you played like 20 minutes of it.
@Peter Lustig For someone purportedly concerned with true depth, your comment on the game is about as shallow as it gets.
@Peter Lustig I've played throughout the game 4 times in total and I can with certainty say that you haven't done so even once
@@jddubisek9263 "played through" stopping you right there, im pretty sure based off his comments this dude has never even actually seen the game, let alone played it, let alone beating it lol
Damn, Peter Lustig getting fucking destroyed out here lmao
Thanks for the spoiler warning. I'll watch the rest when I finish my first playthrough. Update: After 38 hours I have beaten the game!
As of 02/10/2022, writer Alexander Rostov, lead writer Helen Hindpere and founder/secretary Martin Luiga have been fired by the investors, who Martin calls 'the money people'. Amazon has right to make adaptation of Disco Elysium, and the studio is hiring 'monetization specialist'. Make this however you will.
*DETECTIVE*
*ARRIVING*
*ON THE SCENE*
3 days later.
Finally got around it and damn, I love the cryptic worldbuilding and the extensive usage of different vocabulary for description and expression. Had to use an English dictionary quite a few times, but it's a pleasure to learn and research if writing is this engaging. I'm still trying to wrap my head around all the interesting and memorable events that happened and it's pretty refreshing.
Nice job presenting the game with as little spoilers as possible, but still establishing the core.
Disco Elysium is a game about the consequences of people clinging to the past while life moves on around them.
Damn, this hit me so hard. Especially when I played this game at a period of my life where I was doing just that...
Just don’t go off living in a snipers nest and cause a small civil war
Other games are "well written, but not fun to read" - Man that's accurate
Dude you are easily one of the best new channels I’ve discovered, I love hearing your take on the games you cover
Thank you, seriously. Your videos are, traditionally, my favorite content on the entire Internet - nothing quite like it around here, really. Yet it seems to me that you outdo yourself every single time a new one pops out. I have thoroughly loved my time with this game (without necessarily being blind to certain issues it has) and your video has voiced and reflected my feelings, thoughts, and musings perfectly.
If you play sensitive, you can actually have a full blown conversation with the corpse and
the phasmid- and the talk with the phasmid ACTUALLY LETS YOU MOVE ON FROM YOUR EX. You can talk with about so many things and it reveals that humans caused the pale, and you have a chance of putting your past behind you in a satisfying way.
this is my first playthrough hahahahahah
I think the Tribunal tries to impart that there are some things outside the player character's control. No matter your stats or dice rolls, other characters are going to do things. You can try to mitigate their decisions, try to push events in a particular direction, but you can only control one alcoholic disaster cop; some things are just out of his control.
That part ruined the game for me and made me see a lot of flaws that my mind ignored. I wanted control since it was my character and the game stripped that away for me. It made everything I did, even playing the game feel pointless and a waste of time. There are things I like, but the bad outweigh the good, at least for me.
@@megamike15 replying late as hell but I agree with this so much. This happened with me and another game (Citizen Sleeper) and once you get to testing things do you realize how many things were going to occur regardless. Like the Tribunal happening directly after Ruby opposed to the 5 days Inland tells you that you have when talking to Joyce. It's kinda annoying honestly how much you didn't actually have in your control.
your videos are very thorough, enjoyable and insightful and i really enjoy your voice.
disco elysium, despite its flaws, really touched that part of my brain that's been sleeping since planescape torment (perhaps stirring with some rare golden moments in tyranny or tides of numenera), and i'm also very happy to see games from eastern europe getting mainstream recognition. all in all, i'm looking forward to what za/um does next. (nitpick; it's pronounced za-oom, with a strong 'u'; it means literally "behind the mind" and figuratively "subconscious")
I had no idea how za/um was pronounced, so I just kinda went for something that might be right. Tbh i'm just glad people don't seem annoyed with the way I pronounce elysium, seeing as I say it 58 times.
no mention of the man so rich that time and space bends around him....
It is **known** to me that Disco Elysium stands tall along PT
I'll keep that in mind. *updating my journal*
Hell no this game sucks
Let me tell you where exactly Disco got it's claws in me, and what a lot of people don't seem to realize.
I keep hearing what a piece of shit we are. And really the game pushes you to that conclusion, I mean look at how we are introduced to our character once we awake. But then I found my Police File... and some one we all agree is a rather upstanding person, our Partner, was even impressed.
We worked, tirelessly to solve crimes. More than most, perhaps more than any. And in that pursuit we didn't just use fall guys or shoot people. In fact, we had shot 3 people in like 20 Years, in a time and place where Cops shot first and maybe never ask questions at all. From our Police Record our 3 shootings may even have been justified.
THIS is where it got me. That this thing I do, I was GREAT at. And the reason my peers ACTUALLY mocked me was two-fold... (1) I was being great while doing things the right way, and they weren't capable of that and (2) somewhere along the way I broke, it became to much, and I was no longer the man I was. I was now low-hanging fruit, easily used as a punching bag. To my face they could now say the things, that in my prime that could only say behind my back.
Disco is the story of the 'Once Great Man', and you can play that into a Redemption Arc, or you can take him further into the fall. But the fact is, we weren't a shit bag, we weren't a horrible human... we were ACTUALLY a Paragon, eventually broken by the horrors we faced. Because we lived in a paradox, where we solved more crimes than anyone, and yet there were always more crimes to be solved. No matter how much we protected, no matter how much we served... we existed to FOLLOW the horrors, while the horrors were always one step ahead of us. A dog chasing it's tail in a never ending cycle of horror and misery. Never getting to stop the problem, only getting to figure the problem out after the fact.
I think many miss this about Disco. And while many already see it as a masterpiece, understanding this only enhances the greatness of Disco.
As to the ending with the police force as a recovering addict I think it was an important moment.
You can go through enormous personal change and growth but when you've fucked up over and over people seeing you on one good day isn't enough.
Rebuilding trust with the people around you takes time. They need to see you not change but STAY changed especially when you've hurt and let them down so much. it actually did speak to me a lot. That said I'd have loved a bit more of a moment with Kim too
Honestly the voice acting addition (added as a free upgrade) took the game from great to amazing to me. I have lots of concentration issues, and while I played the game before the upgrade as well, and found it one of the best games I've ever played, but after the upgrade, it made me appreciate it a lot more, and is still one of my Top 3 games of all time, because it just seems made for me personally, though I know it isn't.
The song of death is sweet and endless. The game struggels with the struggle of actually being alive. The plasmyd explains it`s existential experience, the lizard brain explains the evil monkeys duking it out. The whole idea of whether to exist and hurt or to stop existing. If you are at all philosophically inclined and enjoy an occasional mushroom trip - this game is pure joy. I maxed out my Conceptualization and was amazed at the ideas that kept popping up. Highly recommended.
I think the ending was perfect. It shows how real the world is. Not everything is an extravagant adventure.
Your content is honest, rich and well-made - thank you. Much needed in the late game review hype/hate madness.
I played the final cut full audio version which gives additional quality by a very well chosen cast. I will never forget Kim Kitsuragi's voice and phrasing which made him even more of a true companion I cared about.
I hope the vivid world they have created gets a second, bigger part or even an episode-based installment if that is more feasible for that small studio - 'Tales from Revachol' or something.
The 'lore' of the game is already so inviting and deep that I'd gladly just spent time walking somewhere through the streets and talk to interesting characters.
I realised on day 1 that the personnalities couldn't be too trusted.
With the young girl a succesful save makes you say dumb shit to her while with the old guys trusting the endurance succesful saves leads you to throw their ball in the sea for some reason.
Finally started playing the final cut, 13 hours in and I already can’t wait to start again with a different build. Love this soo much. Love the dream like psychedelic atmosphere, such profound and conversely perverse and moronic dialogues that allow so many brilliant and comic moments. It’s Magic…. Bring on the rest of my first play through. 🤗
Finished the game today. I agree on the ending, although the tone of the last dialogue felt fine to me, though that might be because I was accompanied by Cuno after Kim got shot. It felt quite heartwarming to be able to get him off drugs and into a junior cop programme.
Kinda sad the fates of all the other characters, including Kim, were left up in the air though. That's my biggest issue with the ending.
"Kim is the straight one..." Lol, nope.
You're in the underground movement? :o
Agh, the dream you discuss at 33:00 (spoiler territory) alone brought back memories - I'm already in tears.
You were right that it lacks revelation but makes up for pure raw emotion. It's not angsty, it doesn't feel silly or self-defeating.
Like she says - real darkness has love for a face. That love can be far more painful than we'd like to admit sometimes.
The part that the game requires passing the shivers check is only partially true - maybe that was changed in a patch or something but right now completing all the big side quests gives you so many modifiers you can easily get to a >80% chance at the skill check without actually putting any points into shivers.
You actually do speak to the victim at one point in the right circumstances
idk what your beef with the ending is, Kim does exactly do what you say you wish for in the ending: he gives a judgement of your actions. he narrates your stats, basically, and defends you if youre worthy in his eyes. maybe you missed out on that somehow? i thought it was very satisfying to watch Kim defend you in front of these "strangers" (your former colleagues) who, from harry's perspective, should overcome their resentment towards you already. and Kim speaks up for you.
DE leaves a lot loose ends on purpose, to create a sort of yearning. i think it does evoke that feeling perfectly. i think you're more used to "neat and tidy" endings videogames offer, cuz in the vast land of novels, and ending like this is common and to be expected. in retrospect i think DE gave surprisingly much closure. i would have hated to hear about dora/colores dei in the end again cuz my harry had already moved on. it is a game about moving on, in my opinion, i wouldnt make any sensein the denouement to dwell on ghosts of the past.
otherwise great essay, let us know if u changed your opinion on the ending since then
ETA: there is more than one way to access the building where ruby is
I just got done binging most of your videos, skipping only 3 or 4 about games that I didn't much care about, and I have to say, you've quickly become one of my favorite channels. Keep up the good work, I'm sure you will explode and become very popular with the quality of your videos.
The existence of this video pleases me GREATLY
Incredible game. For me GOTY by far. Thank you for your videos - precise and thorough as always.
I'm confused. I never internalized the "hobo-cop" thought, but I was under the impression that you could "use" benches around town to pass time. Although I never used them, I assumed the implication was that Harry would sleep on the bench for a few hours. Wouldn't this be what you need to do in order to continue the game if you don't pay rent?
Excellent analysis as always.
You can use them to skip time, but the time stops passing shortly after 2am.
You need the thought to actually sleep outside and get through to the next day
can't you sleep under the boat across the bridge?
@@DATskorge Only after day 3, if can't advance to that day and don't have enough money, you're technically stuck.
I internalized the hobocop archetype and used it to sleep in a dumpster when i didn't have enough money for the hostel. It gives you a game over screen which soft locked me, making me go back a few hours in saves so I could sell my bottles at the store. Strikes me as bad design for sleeping in a dumpster to be a game over screen when being a drunk, drug addled naked maniac sucking on a loaded gun in a room full of people is already a confirmed part of the character known by all. But then sleeping in a dumpster becomes the headline that destroys Harry's career?
@@tumeg8282 Whoa that's super strange. I didn't hit a did end on my one play through and kind of assumed that there wasn't a way to permanently screw up. I always got the impression that sleeping on the streets is a viable option, it really implies that it is. Glad I stuck to the hotel and then eventually the rental room.
I needed this review! One of the best stories I've ever seen in a game
At approximately 40:00 you say that the scene with Dora is the opportunity for closure, but the closure comes later with the phasmid
The last thing the phasmid asks Harry is to try to forget her.
As you say, the game is about people living in the past.
The phasmid asks Harry to forget and the 3 dialog options we are presented with are
I can't
I will try
I will
This is the user been given the option to decide on what the closure will be, the user is putting themselves in Harry's shoes to decide how they will act, whether they will attempt to stop living in the past or not.
Great video though :)
glad someone said that. this moment made me bawl
oh yeah. that moment was def most cathartic of all. if you picked 2 or 3.... picking 1 is crushingly depressing
This video brought me to tears. Made me like the game so much more. Great writing on the critique.
I only watched to the spoiler warning, cause i havent finished the game, yet. That being said, this game struck pretty close to home with me. I think what makes it work, is the (at least apparently so far for me) low stakes. You arent saving the world in this one. This one is about saving yourself (if you want it to be), and that´s pretty much it.
What i would have wished for this game, though, despite the good writing, is more visual/audio support of what´s going on. You know, more "Show, dont tell!". A 2D-drawn-animation (consistent with the art style of the game) here, a sound (more) there... IMHO, the game doesnt take full advantage of the potential that the medium offers and relies too heavily on its writing, as good as it may be (i am not a vivid reader - i cant really tell). I would probably pay another 15$ for an optional art-pack to this game, that peppers it up in such a way.
Also, imho, each day feels pretty static. Would be nice if people walked around a bit. Maybe only when you arent idling. Make time pass while walking.
The clothes system: Yeah, it´s not that realistic perhaps, when you change in front of people, but in general it makes sense. If only the inventory had some sort of filter or sorting function.
Also, the game could still use some "polish" on the menus. The map shows checks that are already inactive as being tryable "right now" for example, and the inventory still shows that there are new items, when there arent.
Most of the negatives you're pointing out are likely due to low budget and the fact that this is the studio's first game.
@@SMJSmoK That makes sense and I hope it´s true. What do you think about the "optional art-pack" idea? I mean, they could use that as standard for future games: Offer the basic version (earlier and cheaper than otherwise possible) for the more "frugal textists" and then an "Art"-dlc that makes it more accessible to the more spectacle-inclined, while also offering an additional reason for the "frugalists" to play through it again, at the same time?
Two moments in the game I will never forget.
"Code 31", and meeting "it"
I wanted to get Kim on the dance floor... Failed a check and was then forced to call my beloved partner a yellow monkey fucker. It felt so horrible
@@redlorax5380 This is one of the only games where you're missing out if you don't fail rolls. Not only can the rewards be better but it's often funnier.
The only exception is the creature at the end of the game. I felt extremely fortunate to pass the rolls interacting with it, but if it just runs away on a failed roll then I'd be shocked. That's the sort of content I'd be very upset at missing.
@@kingbranden1369 or the things you do to make a check. The authority check with Titus, i failed it for the longest time. So when all else was done, I took some speed and hallucinogens, put on my police cap and damn did Titus listen then. It was so damn funny
Never been this early for one of your videos before. Looking forward to this one later tonight when I’m winding down. Love your channel!
About writing: I think what some text (or story) heavy games miss is interactivity. A triumph of Torment and Disco Elysium aren’t just a high amount of well written text, but how much player interacts with those.
That is something that Pillars of Eternity lacked (as much as I love that game). A cool and interesting as a lot of its narrative content was, it was also rather non-interactable. Games can get away with mostly uninteractive content, as long as it’s well paced, but in games where one spends a lot of time talking to people being able to say interesting things is a key.
A plethora of interesting dialogue choices is what I remember about Planescape the most. It was stopping and thinking of what I will stay and do that stayed with me the most, and DiscoE is the game that recaptured that feeling best.
My favorite part of this game was helping those druggies create a night club in an abandoned church, and then showing off my sick dance moves.
After I finished the game, I realized I didn't rest on that final bed and missed my meet with the innocence.
Now GO BACK, and SLEEP, for frick sake man. You missed a great bit of the game :(
@@IMBREISGAU that's what I get for role playing a boring moralist :))
Your reviews are so well structured and well handled when it comes to spoilers.
Also, the way you change the tone of the video, with just your voice, to reflect the mood being set in the game is perfect. When you want a scene to feel beautiful to behold, it does, I can feel it. Especially with a game like this
I don't even know what to say except that I just love Disco Elysium.
i know this video is 2yrs old but i cant help but add that the shivers check to find ruby you criticized is the only check in the entire game you have to pass to progress and to get the modifiers for it you have to do the side quests, throughout which you get to know martinaise and revachol on a much deeper personal level which to me is the true experience rather than the murder mystery. shivers itself is a skill where harry literally speaks to revachol itself, so making it the big checkpoint seemed pretty important narrative-wise. i do agree it gets pretty linear after that, but still personal (?) also i love jean 👍
Ohh its been a long long lonely wait on top of that mountain Planescape ehh finally we have someone who has scaled the narrative heights to stand with you at the top.
Disco Elysium: Death by ceiling fan!!!
being an absolute disaster of a human being in real life made this game so surreal. I cried a lot
I wish there were more options for causal chatting with NPCs I really liked (especially kim). I get that it takes up in-game time, but still, I think it would have been nice to get some more dialogue options and to build bonds that might come in handy later when trying to find information. they do such an amazing job at creating complex NPCs and then don't let me talk to them? lame. also the phasmid scene was quite possibly my favorite scene in the entire game. so beautiful.
What a great game. I never even realized this is very similar to Planescape Tormen experience, yet it hooked me all the same. It was marvelous yet very painful experience (the story is really sad in both games).
been waiting on this one. great video :)
You, as a player, definitely may feel that the final evaluation / ending is improper, unsatisfying or even not relevant. But I think for Harry it is important. He probably wants to feel validation for this insane week of hard work. But for his co-workers, that had to endure his atrocious behaviour for years, one week is simply nothing. A drop in the ocean. For me, it was an excellent ending, it slapped me straight out of fantasy. This journey is over. Now look around you. Apply what you learned and experienced. You. And Harrier as well.
"with a focus on being well-written instead of being fun to read" - You hit the nail on the head here. So many games are trying to become novels instead of engaging and enjoyable like Disco and Planescape..Planescape didn't just have amazing descriptions and writing in general, it had downright hilarious situations, engaging takes on atmospheres, wild and inconceivable ideas like making objects be able to speak similar to how Disco made the neck-tie talk to you..the list goes on. Great review
Dang it planescape torment really hit me and this game did too, it’s always the ones with lots of dialogue that get you.
I just finished Disco last night (couldn’t just stop, save and complete the last stretch tonight 😁). Now I find myself getting to work drinking coffee like no tomorrow to compensate for barely no sleep… and OMG it worth it! Every minute of it. Disco literally swallowed me into its dystopian yet so fascinating reality. Rarely I felt so connected to a character playing a game…I genuinely shedded tears when I ‘’lived’’ the final revelation of past love now gone scene. Like you said, at that point I had mostly connected the dots and knew what was coming… yet the moment was truly emotional. An absolute banger must be played game!
PS : you are 110% right about the last dialogue…it felt like a first third of the game moment where conversation are both goofy/light and yet throwing some more bits of info to get a better big picture…. And then they just walk away… and final credits kicked in. 😢 I just stared at the screen wishing for something happening of after… just minimally being able to still and walk around and complete some unfinished side quests…. Nope ! Back to main screen and your last save is before the whole 1-2 hours final showdown
PSS : my best side quest is HARDCORE ! 😏
Raphaël Ambrosius Costeau
This is a great video. I don’t agree with it all, but I do like how you we’re able to point out flaws while not running the game into the ground. The final conversation didn’t bother me, but I definitely thought it was bullshit how you had to pay an exorbitant fee to stay at the hotel on the first day, yet for most of the rest of the game, you don’t have to pay much at all. I hope we get more characters like Harry as well. I’m getting a bit tired of power fantasy characters. Give me more real, flawed, broken playable characters.
This was perhaps the best adventure game I've ever played. Hopefully an expansion or a proper sequel will be released in the future!
wow perfect timing. i just picked up this game today!
What a ride, thanks for showing me this awesome game :) HARDCORE TO THE MEGA !
I love the section on story cliches; it reminded me of the movie "Pulp Fiction," which is highly original despite of (or because of?) its self-aware cliches.
Wow. Between hitches I played a lot of games for the first time, Planescape first then Disco . Instant frissons and entirely unexpected. Thank you.
Men, your critiques and observations always hit me hard, so very well thought of and structuralised, delivered with a smooth and suave voice.
Even thought, at times, you have destroyed some perfection nests in my head (like with the Witcher 3), I always find it fascinating to listen to what you have to say about a game that has impacted me in some way. I hope you can continue with what you're doing, it's really good.
Speaking of which, I really hope one day you can talk about the most hardcore game of all time for me : Pathologic 2. GL HF.
Planescape Torment wasn't a commercial success in the US, but it was very popular in Poland. My guess is that it was the case also for other post-communist countries, like Estonia where Disco Elysium originated.
Its almost hilarious how much americans in the comments misunderstand the politics of this game
About the end: I have to disagree with your comments about Harry being better now and the conversation therefore making no sense.
I think it still makes sense because DE is about the world and human existence being fundamentally broken and tragic. As I see it the question posed throughout the game is whether such a world and such an existence is worth experiencing or whether it is perhaps best surrendered to the pale or to suicide respectively. Isn't it better not to exist? And I think the answer the game shows is that there is something beautiful about struggling and surviving within that brokenness and not in spite of it. Harry is still a shit at the end of the game, but the prism of this shitty world is angled differently now to see what beauty can be rescued from it.
Great game, great video.
Just a friendly heads up for people who like Planescape: Torment and Disco Elysium, those games didn't sprout out of thin air.
They had a grand daddy called Ultima 7 along with its extension, Serpent Isle. Try them out.
@@megamike15 U7's combat is horrible, similar to Torment. No one plays/played U7 for the fights, as opposed to baldur's gate.
The NPCs, dialogue (there's a lot of it) puzzles and the feeling of slowly piecing out an unfolding mystery is what the game's about.
Most version of U7 come with the Silver Seed extension, which is a very well written quest that maxes out and then doubles the Avatar's stats, on top of giving him a sword that if talked to can kill anything in one hit... Definitely not a combat centric game like BG.
There's less fighting encounters in U7 than Torment...
Baldur's Gate's grandfathers are the Goldbox games. DND based games with great linear stories like Pool of Radiance, Champions of Krynn, Curse of the Azure Bonds, culminating in the masterpiece that is Dark Sun: Shattered Lands. A game with multiple paths to quest resolutions that is difficult to not compare to the original Fallout.
I've never played a CRPG in my life. And I'm not really one for reading either. For some reason I decided to try out Disco Elysium. Holy shit. I felt that. Never played a game like that in my life. And I immediately wanted more. In searching for games similar to Disco Elysium I'm finding that there's really none quite like it. Sure there are other CRPGs, but I'm not a fan of D&D and the whole fantasy setting with goblins and ghouls and elves and dwarves and whatever the hell else. It's just so overdone it seems generic to me. It's boring. I hope more game studios in the future take notes on Disco Elysium and we start to see more games like it. Truly an unforgettable experience.
The only game that felt narratively similar to me was tyranny. Had great choices that really impact the world. Combat isn't anything special, but it is a good intro to CRPGs as it's more simple than baldurs gate. I really couldn't understand baldurs gate until I played tyranny and divinity original sin.
Also fallout 1.
Try fallout 1 and 2. They are pretty great.
You can call it generic without actually playing the games? Many of them have similar tropes but what makes them good/unique is the great writing and innovation of those tropes. Planescape Torment and Tyranny for example.
Kim will provide a means to help you with the hotel rent. Although I presume it would be just once and you are on your own. I am guessing the dev expected the players to be conscious of the money you have until you unlock the shack.
I do hope ZA/UM can continue their success with their future games.
have just finished the game. watched several videos about it and didnt finish them. this was the only one I watched all the way through, very well done and thanks for making it.
I just picked this up today Im glad I watched your analysis to better understand what Im going into since Ive never really explored this genre before. Appreciate that you put the spoiler warnings at the end too. I really love all of your content you really have a way of understanding and exploring the medium of gaming in a way that few others on this platform can.
Fun fact: if you have enough inland Empire you actually CAN talk to the corpse.... and it will answer back.
He's a bit of a dick tho. Reminds me of someone
Those little things could be fixed with more budget and more time, but the game have a inside story about how a game developer was running out of money and time, and becoming more ambitious with its game despite that. I believe they wanted to have an more open ended ending and more mechanics, but if they do that the game would never come out. And despite that, they made a amazing game that put the capitals RPG back in the genre. The Outer World's come in the same time, and in comparison, the text and choices looks archaic.
Thanks for doing this, I got stuck at the shivers check and had no way to return. Your video helped give me some closure. Thank you.
Love this game even if it's more a VN than a game, great writing, I was so enthralled by the setting and world I honestly really felt like I was playing PT for the first time again. I know it has problems but I enjoyed it thouroghly so I'm able to look past those problems. Definetly my favourite game of the year.
I think the real Insulindian Phasmid was the friends made along the way
Thank you so much for your reviews! I was very positively surprised when I found them for the first time, because I had never before seen such thorough and insightful analyses and interpretations of computer games. Very refreshing!