Can YOU Survive VFR into IMC - Practical Flight Simulator Challenge
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- Опубликовано: 11 май 2017
- Season 2, Episode 20
Have you ever wondered if you would be able to survive some of the most dangerous scenarios in aviation? Well, why don't you find out! That's what simulators are for, after all. Let's see how I perform against one of the top killers of pilots, VFR into IMC. I was pretty surprised with the results, although maybe I shouldn't have been. I hope we can all learn something from this experience.
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Развлечения
I've been a pilot and controller over 20 years. Immediately report that you are losing VMC conditions to ATC. The adage is climb, conserve, confess. ATC will not punish you for inadvertent entry in to IMC. We have procedures using the radar to help you. We can ask other pilots in the area if they are VMC at their altitude. If they are we will climb you to the minimum vectoring altitude and get you to that clearer weather. We set you up as carefully as we can. We give turns in the clearer airspace if we can , have you configure when you can see the horizon etc. We will use all the resources at our disposal to keep you safe.
...and if you encounter "moderate" icing along the way, or even just generally become disoriented and stall and spin into the ground, they will be sure to throw more dirt on the wreckage of your airplane.
Good info!
Glad to hear that!!
@@jeffmaxwell8297 So your alternative is... what? Die quietly as to not be inconvenienced by paperwork?
Get down safely. That is really the ONLY concern you should have at that point. Being given a phone number isn't the end of the world, and all that will happen after you're no longer in danger of crashing, so... win-win.
Sean Brophy Conserve fuel??
Contact the tower. I'd rather have my license suspended or revoked rather than be DEAD.
I flew my Piper Archer into a severe thunderstorm, where I could not see anything but black out of all windows. Your video was good, but you always could see the ground in it. Make the same video, but where you can’t see the ground, and see how much harder it really becomes.
When I did that horrible mistake of flying into the soup, I couldn’t tell up from down, down from up, but was able to trust my instruments, even though I was not instrument rated. I was flying at a 20° bank, but my brain said I was flying level. When I would try to level the airplane, there was this invisible force that was fighting me from making the proper correction. I slowed the airplane down to about 90 kits, and relied almost entirely on my attitude indicator and with occasional glances to see if I was climbing or descending.
I called air traffic control, who put me on a separate frequency, and the excellent controller (Dayton ATC) told me to climb until I could see some light in the sky, and continue flying that direction. I finally broke out of that big July pop-up thunderstorm, and finally landed at a small country airport. It was an absolute nightmare, and all because of “I needed to get home”.
What seemed like an eternity, probably lasted only 5 to 10 minutes. I still get chills down my spine when I think about how close to losing my life I was. I did have about 10 hours of actual instrument training, thank God, or I would not be writing this now. After that incident, I would not even fly if a drizzle was forecast.
That had to be very scary! You must have had some fun turbulence and the same time.
It was like flying in a pitch black wind tunnel. When I left the airport, the weather forecast was for a chance of thunderstorms. It was a hot humid July day... about 45 minutes in, I could see the storms forming, but I thought I would be able to make it through. I should’ve immediately turned around at that point, but I needed to get home....ugh
Glad you are here with us.
If you were in a severe TS u probably wouldn’t be penning a response. ‘’Black” indicates no light coming through due to intensity of visible precipitation. More likely u were in the dissipating phase of the TS rather than the building or mature phases. I’m commercial instrument single/multi engine rated with 1400 hours
No disrespect, but I doubt you flew into a "severe thunderstorm" in a GA aircraft. Forget being instrument rated, flying into a thunderstorm is far, far worse than flying "in the soup." It's flying into soup inside a kitchen mixer, the turbulence would be so severe it would be almost impossible to maintain heading and totally impossible to maintain altitude. A 10,000-hour instrument pilot would be flipping a coin to come out of a severe thunderstorm alive. The most harrowing part of being in a *moderate* thunderstorm is the insane turbulence that'll throw your 2500 lb archer around like a toy.
I don't doubt you had gethereitis and wondered into a shower, but a severe thunderstorm is a deadly situation for any pilot in any aircraft, including the biggest, hardiest 787. Icing, hail, wind shear and microbursts are the primary concern. I've been caught in a moderate thunderstorm and pushed out the bottom of it, thank god I was in an kitted out Caravan and not my 172RG. In a moderate thunderstorm, you don't think about "not knowing if you're ascending or descending," because every few seconds you're pushed into your seat or have your stomach in your throat as the shears toss aircraft around like ragdolls. You were in the soup, NOT a severe thunderstorm. DO NOT make the mistake of thinking being instrument rated means you can fly into a thunderstorm, severe or not.
At the 10:00 mark you mention that some good advice would be to look down. I would say, as a 1600 hour instrument rated pilot, looking down is not a good thing. Even if you see the ground it may give you comfort but it is not a horizon that you can orient your brain to. The only horizon you have when in the situation you are in is the Attitude indicator. You must trust your instruments. Looking down will cause the fluid in your ears to move and can induce even more vertigo than you may already have if not used to flying in the clouds. Get on and stay on your instruments until you can get yourself out of those conditions. I would suggest that you go up with a flight instructor who is experienced in flying IFR and get some really good hood time. Maybe even go up with an experienced instructor in actual instrument conditions and get a feel for what it is like to transition to instrument flying. It does not mean you have to get your instrument rating but get some good instrument time so you can feel okay on getting yourself out of conditions such as these.
There probably would not be any paperwork if you declared an emergency. Which would be appropriate here. But even if there was I think I would take the paperwork and license suspension over being dead.
And lastly, I think that if you are going to remain a VFR rated pilot only then don't make your first and last training under the hood with your initial private pilot training. Do it often. Even more than once every 2 years at your flight review. Get good at flying on instruments even if you won't be doing it as an instrument rated pilot. Thanks for the video.
Great advice. Thanks for posting. That's exactly what I had hoped more knowledgeable people would do with this video.
Agreed, it shocked me that you gave 'advice' on a topic that you aren't qualified to give advice on. What you said could kill another pilot experiencing this because if you were to look down and follow the ground, you could end up in an unusual attitude if that ground were to lead to a mountain, and from your new perspective you'd be trying to keep the plane level with the contouring ground believing its the horizon when in-fact you're now in a steep turn that could end up in a spiral dive.
Trust your instructor when you first obtained your PPL - you would've logged some IF time wearing an IFR hood to qualify for PPL, you would've been told and shown to trust your instruments, mainly the Artificial Horizon/Attitude Directional Indicator.
The problem now is I hope people see these comments after watching your video because they may take your 'advice' as good advice. Personally I'd remove that part from the video.
Now my story while on the topic of IFR:
When I was doing my MEA Instrument Rating, half of the training was in a synthetic simulator. I was flying a cross country flight when the AH/ADI froze just as I entered a turn, I ended up crashing the sim. The instructor asked me what went wrong, I thought the sim software had frozen on me (as it is known to do at times) and he said treat the sim like a real aeroplane, keep flying it until you're on the ground. The sim was working properly and as intended. We then re-flew the scenario, he got me to do an ILS approach down to minimums without use of flight director or an autopilot and with a frozen AH/ADI. It was one of the most demanding and stressful tasks in my instrument rating. Flying an aeroplane in IMC solely off performance based instruments that lag is definitely a skill that requires a heap of practice to master. But it can be practiced at home on flight sim. I believe FSX even has a mission in the king air that eventually leads to a failed AH/ADI which in turn fails the autopilot, and i think from that you have to fly a localizer approach, with initial tracking using an NDB. The sims are a great tool to practice IFR flight and mainly improve your instrument scanning if used properly.
@@shaunweatherill6651 I appreciate your comment and actually decided not to watch the video because of it. Many of the other people commenting have been pretty consistent: Step 1, don't look outside. :) Also that one guy's remark to turn off the strobe was interesting..
In fairness, I don't think he's so much "giving advice" as vocalising what's going through his mind and showing how he is reacting. It's a pretty decent show of "how VFR pilots will (not should) think and react." I think getting IR is probably the best thing any pilot can do. It takes away limitations and even if 90% of the time you want to fly VFR it gives you backup. I'd probably add that I'd do at least a few flights a year IFR (even using as a commute) to keep your hand in. It may mean you're doing a flight that isn't for pleasure once in a while, but one day it may save your life.
If you ever get get in a real VFR into IMC situation as bad as this, I hope you contact ATC and declare an emergency. No amount of paperwork is worth risking your life for. ATC will help you find the best airport, give you vectors and try to keep you calm.
Definitely.
I always said that this will never happen to me. But then out of nowhere it did. I too hesitated calling ATC for a min (about 10) but I'm glad I did. They were amazing other than not knowing what a Maule is lol and thanks to them and a BA 777 they got me through the soup and on the ground. Funny thing is the FAA was quite understanding because it was a freak day and it wasn't like I was pushing things on purpose. I still dreaded getting the phone call but in the end they didn't pursue formal actions. Although they did railroad a Mooney pilot at my home field who tried to sneak in like he's done before. Worst of all is he had the balls to blame me for them going after his ticket. His words were thanks to all the "hoopla"from me declaring to ATC he wasn't able to sneak in like he's done before.
@@southjerseysound7340 I'd highly encourage pilots to get ADS-B weather and traffic IN. Weather hardly ever just happens, but it certainly can change over a few hours - and having real-time access to that information in your plane can certainly be a life-saver, especially for VFR-only pilots.
@@landonp629 nowadays it's too easy to get great weather information at the touch of a button,there's really no excuse.
My run in was quite some time ago.
I still think we should train for inadvertently getting into IMC though for the ppl. Jaun brown over at the blancolorio channel has touched on the subject a few times and worth watching.
RIP Kobe :(
I am a retired controller at a fairly busy approach control. I've been a pilot for 30 years but did not do much flying until I retired three years ago and bought an airplane. The first thing I did was have a new panel installed and then got my instrument rating. Best thing I ever did. If you ever get yourself caught in weather like this sim for real there are a couple of options. The very first thing I would do is contact ATC and let them know your situation. If your airplane is equipped and you know how to shoot an approach, do that with the controller's help. If not, request vectors to a long final, making very small turns, and only when you are level. Don't look out the window, it will only confuse your body. Let the controller set you up for a long straight in final and have him call out the distances to you. If you are able to fly an approach down, great, if not, have the controller give you the altitudes on final for the let down fixes, (FAF, MDA). Land, kiss the ground, find an instrument instructor.
I don't know, Kobe Bryant's pilot was IFR rated with 8,000 hours TT, yet still crashed.
Douglas Wayne I'm no expert but from everything I've heard from experienced pilots discussing Kobe's crash, they say that it is very easy to forget IFR skills if you're not using them regularly.
@@bendietrees That in itself is a flaw in the system that needs to be elliminated.
Why must IFR be so complicated that it requires constant use to not forget?
Today, we have super advanced computers that could easily prevent that.
Why aren't we installing them in multi-million dollar aircraft?
Something like this;
ruclips.net/video/JvzPpOknjME/видео.html
Wrong! The very first thing you do is fly the aircraft.
@@pmh1nic And fly right into the ground!
Aviate, navigate, then communicate don't work (as proven in this case!) IF you are too close to the ground with no time to aviate.
So the FIRST thing to do at that point was to GET AWAY FROM OBSTACLES!!!
Like I said before, the fatal mistake was made BEFORE they even took off when the pilot decided to use a non-IFR helicopter in foggy conditions.
That single act put them into a chain of events that left them very little options left.
If an 8,000 hour IFR pilot could not get out of such situation, no one could!
As a retired ATC, I was recently chatting in an aircraft owners internet forum about a real-life VFR to IMC I worked many years ago and someone provided this link. The real life weather weather was 300 Broken and OVC above that with a few breaks. The pilot (non IFR rated and his non pilot wife) had an estimated 45 minutes fuel remaining, spatial disorientation and motion sickness, was having trouble maintaining heading/altitude and made some inadvertent steep turns in the clouds. We eventually got him on the ground but it was a miracle in my opinion. He did not have to do paperwork or get yelled at. We were just glad they were still alive. Ask for help. Embarrassing maybe - Alive is better!
Wow, fantastic story! I can't imagine what that must have been like on your end. Bravo, sir! If you have any details, or other stories you want to share, always feel free to get in touch. The ATC perspective is one that few pilots enjoy an understanding of.
Perhaps the mantra should be "paperwork before personal injury or death". ;)
If a non-instrument pilot inadvertently enters IMC and asks for help from ATC, there is ZERO paperwork, and ZERO risk of having action taken against your license. I've heard this from several controllers and FAA personnel.
Agreed. Regardless, having to do some paperwork is no match for the risk of killing yourself, your passengers, and people on the ground. CALL FOR HELP!
Inadvertent VFR into IMC:
Step 1) Get your eyes inside the cockpit. A poor instrument scan is better than trying to follow a nonexistent or false horizon.
Step 2) If not already talking to a controller, dial 121.5 and declare "MAYDAY, VFR into IMC". Whoever picks up will drop everything and make your safe return their number one priority. That help may make all the difference.
Step 3) Begin the recommended standard rate turn 180° back toward where you came from.
I noticed a lot of Nick's turns were 30° bank turns. That's typical for VFR flight, but under IMC you want to stick to standard rate. Not a bad idea to time them either so you don't miss your roll out (due to poor scanning technique.)
I'm not a CFI so take all that with a grain of salt. But for various reasons I have spent a decent amount of time flying (legally and under watchful CFI eyes) in real IMC without an instrument rating - so I have some relevant experience.
Interesting! Thanks for posting guys! That's the most interesting thing I've heard thus far!
It's true. Tell ATC and declare an emergency.
id say you would absolutely have action taken against you. Although in the moment thats not critical but being a VFR pilot and accidentally entering IMC is violating 91.13(a) which is always the backdoor the FAA can use to violate people. That being said just get your instrument ticket. I use it on the daily and am infinitely safer because of it.
@@hempelcx And keep your head still meaning no large movements left to right. Fear will be an issue so will adrenaline so keep CALM as possible and work the problem.
Hey Nick great video! Currently working on my instrument rating, so I'm no CFII however, to answer your question here is what I'd suggest that pilots should do during VFR flight into IMC;
1- DO NOT LOOK OUTSIDE (don't get yourself sick and disoriented )
2- Do not move your head around the cockpit as you would do during VFR flight for pilotage. This will get you disoriented and you'll lose control.(There is nothing to look at except for your instruments, trust your instruments)
3- Fly straight and level, avoid unnecessary turns, and make sure you are above MSA. (Flying straight and level will decrease your work load since once you are trimmed and stabilized it is easy to do)
4- And call the nearest ATC facility.Declare emergency, request radar assistance. They'll take you to VFR conditions. And most importantly ATC can be another set of eyes, they can warn you immediately if you don't realize that you are turning or descending!
Keep up the good work! Fly safe!
Good advice, old friend! Thanks for sharing with everyone!
Yes i agree, especially not looking outside, there is no reason to; also i could make you panic!
I would just add that it's not enough to have instrument rating. Your instrument rating is useless if during VFR flight you do not keep instrumental situational awareness. When you transition VFR into IMC, you should already have radios set, nav equipment set, regional qnh ready and set, know minimum sector altitude, have ready approach plates... Good preparation is 90% of flight.
Not looking outside is the big one. You have to physically force yourself to keep to your scan and your instinct will be to keep looking up out the window. Turn the strobes off.
And if i had to land at Southbridge, i would fly the RNAV for Runway 02 and put it down there, if conditions were worse however i would fly the ILS for 11 or 29 at Worcester. Even some VFR guys can fly those from time under the hood.
I had a similar experience about two years ago where I had no options but to continue. This was right after I got my instrument rating but I was flying VFR (or I thought so). So here I was, 5000 ft above the ground along a highly mountainous terrain and in about ten minutes, I was in the clouds and starting to see rime ice building up along my leading edge and the front of my wheels in a C172SP. I knew that if I continued, I could easily make that VOR over the airport and hold until I got a proper clearance for what I was doing. The tower read me the latest weather and it wasn't looking good. I had to make it down and down fast! 800-foot ceiling with a 3-visibility and possibility of light to moderate icing on the approach. The ice was coming and going while I was hopping in and out of the clouds above the VOR. I shot two successful holdings and I finally got the clearance for a full procedure ILS approach which included a 12-mile outbound leg with a 2500ft descent. I briefed it to myself over the VOR and did my checklist and started my descent outbound. Ice was still there but this time it was clearly trying to make me more anxious. I could feel the performance degrading and was kinda hoping if I descended further, the temperature would climb and the ice would go away.
I established on the ILS and started descending, cautiously monitoring everything both inside and outside the airplane and at the same time I was furiously repeating the remaining altitude to the minimums all the way from 2500 at every 100 increments. At some point I started to think about what I would do if I had to go missed and in a split second, not more than a single second took a glimpse through the windshield. My eyes began to whirl, my hands were signaling jitters like a broken television, and I could feel the liquid in my brain following a curvature caused by the disorientation. I immediately averted my eyes only to find out that I was banking 40 degrees to the right and losing the glide-slope like a champ. I was still 1500ft above the ground and thanks to the tortoise-paced C172, I recovered and continued on the glide.
500 feet to the minimums and still nothing. 400 and still nothing. 300 and oh my Zeus on the Olympus.... I saw the threshold.
That day was a turning point in my career.
Trust your Attitude Indicator. Worship it if you would...
No one on the face of the planet can stress the magics of an attitude indicator enough.
Just my 2 cents..
Good share my friend. Looking forward to hearing more of your stories.
Trust your Attitude Indicator BUT verify by crosschecking Turn Coordinator and other 5 instruments :)
Kudos to Nick for making this video and posting it.
It takes a lot of honesty and courage to show one's limits and mistakes.
Very few people on RUclips do it: they rather post carefully edited versions of reality that are curated so to make them look well.
But the reality is, no matter what your level is, there's always a challenge you are not prepared for, and it's enlightening to face that next-level challenge to see what would happen, accepting the possibility of failure, and not editing out the less flattering moments.
It takes a lot more courage than to play armchair CFII in the comments section.
Kobe's death have me learning things about flying that I never thought I would. RIP to all who passed away 🙏🏽
Tell me about it.
How often will you be in a helicopter better a plan flying around mountains
Me too! I’m damn near an expert now!! 🤣
That’s what Kobe’s pilot said...
Likewise, I'm completely understanding the language and ATC communication.
With recent events this helps me get the full picture. Thank you.
Same here.
This is absolutely nothing like the real thing. If it was this clown would be dead.
I lost my uncle and grandparents due to this when 8 years old. He (my uncle) flew into IMC and hit a mountain in arkansas during a very bad storm. The NTSB / FAA report roasted him on a number of things. Inadequate planning, failure to maintain control, no weather briefing.. the list goes on and on. Poor decision making all around on his part but I learned to use it not as a bad thing but a lesson instead. 9 times out of 10 it isn't one thing that leads to the ultimate outcome but a series of events.
The content, structure, and delivery of this video are all great.
Thanks
As a teenager, I flew with my older brother when he was getting his private pilots license. I saw him go from single engine rated, to twin, turboprop, and finally commercial.
One time, we flew from Hooks Airport in Houston, to Killeen. Along the way, we hit IMC conditions. He asked me to put my hands on the controls, and just follow along. He said to watch the altimeter, bank angle, airspeed, and rate of climb/descent.
I was scared shitless. I could not see the ground, and what was up, or down. He empathize to trust the instruments, fly the plane, and to fight the feeling that you were lost.
When I watch these kinds of videos, I'm instantly reminded of how I felt that day. And I didn't have the workload of plotting my charts, talking to ATC, mixture, trim, radio frequency changes.... It was all overwhelming.
We landed safely in Killeen, with a slight overcast, and looking back, it was an absolute surprise that we landed. He later became a pilot for American Airlines, then Japan Airlines, became a teacher for the 747.and flew the a380 for Emrites before he retired in 2018.
But those days of taking a single engine plane, or a twin turboprop, and hopping to another state are some of the best times of my teenage years.
Five C's acronym: climb, communicate, confess, comply, conserve; that's what I learned in my private pilot studies. My instructor has actually taken me, a student pilot, up into real IMC multiple times. I didnt think it very scary as long as i focused on soley the instruments. I think what most pilots do wrong is that when they accidentally find themselves in IMC they still try to fly VFR; you have to rely on your instruments, and only your instruments in that situation because you are, well, flying IFR. Except for when things go wrong, like the ILS doesn't work XD then you're kinda in a pickle. Great video! And I really want to hear those stories of yours!
I've always heard the five C's for getting lost, but I suppose they could still apply. You are technically lost, I guess!
Yea you are lost in the clouds! XD
Call 911 For Cookies Five 'Cs' is a bad idea for inadvertent IMC. As stated many times, you want to get inside the cockpit, start a standard rate turn and talk to ATC. Climbing just adds workload and brings the risk of stalling, focus on maintaining height as if you've planned well you should be fine (or not you're most pressing issue anyway). Also, that acronym just confuses people. Confess, communicate and comply are the same things basically. Conserve is not something to worry about, you're either getting out of there, or getting on the ground one way or another.
Another example of overcomplicating a theoretically simple task. Just remember: eyes in, turning, talking, if you want an acronym
Adam Taylor, you're right it probably is a bad idea in that situation. Acronym's are just confuzing when the real thing happens, better to simply not panic and keep your eyes on the instruments.
Call 911 For Cookies Exactly, when it's life or death just do what needs to be done.
During my private pilot training, my instructor took me out on a day with 3SM and overcast 1500 to show me just how bad it can be even when VFR. It was seriously mind blowing. I felt like I could barely see in front of me. Definitely taught me to create higher personal minimums for myself.
MVFR is not VFR. You learned a valuable lesson.
@@fozzywxman I definitely learned a valuable lesson, but the MVFR is most certainly VFR, at least according to the FAR’s.
I realize this is a training video and a good one at that! In real life, my instructor always taught me, at first sign of the poor visibility, go back to where you came from. It's that simple.
I love your videos, keep up the good work!
It's funny you mention "Is it safe for me to be out here?" etc. My "generic personal minimum" is, if i ask myself that question, and i truly am not sure, the answer is no. Great vid
Well said.
One of my instructors had a saying - I'd rather be a day late than 30 years early. Very good advice for VFR pilots.
You nearly died twice there.
My take on things. 1: Fly 500 feet under cloud, when you have higher cloud bases to get used to doing it. 2: Fly at 500 feet above ground, so you get used to that. 3: practice doing a 360 degree turn at 500 feet simulated with instructor, often until you get used to doing it with no loss of altitude, looking out the window, and listening to the engine. Also practice 360 degree max rate turn with left or right jink and climb to stall and switch back 180 just like coming to the end a closed canyon, and safely going out.(Jink means using the rudder to turn the body left to get rid of some forward motion, the using engine at max and clean smooth moves bring the airplane up and around to face the other way). Why turn 360 max rate first? so you can decide which way to go, to get out of the canyon.
4: You were over a airfield, Never lose sight of it once you have found it. Circle above it. Keep it in sight and then decide which way to land, wind-sock, trees, smoke etc will tell you the wind. get your airplane setup for slow speed maneuvering , pick a runway or grass strip and commit. land the airplane.
5: You went into the 'death' spiral, because you were not flying the machine, after your missed approach, you did not do the normal circuit pattern. Climb to 500 feet, turn to left or right depending on local norms, Keep climb to circuit height get sorted down wind, setup for base, look for end of runway, turn closer to keep runway insight. descend turn base, set decent rate turn on to the runway, and land as normal.
What you did was to go away from the strip off the end of it and your turn was random because, you did not look after the rudder as you applied power. You stall recovery was good. But you had lost sight of the field.
Sorry for 1year old reply, and rambling, hope it helps someone.
I have encountered IMC in Mountain Flying, that was not there when we took off, in fact was clear skys, but in a C150 two up with tools, in tiger country, we were following the only road through a series of mountains. We rounded the last turn in the road which led on to an alpine lake at 5000 feet, crossing the lake a few wisps of fog formed ahead, and in seconds it seemed a rolling cloud appeared pouring over the mountain ahead (where the last pass was). This cloud just got higher and higher. The C150 could not out climb it in anyway. We turned 180 to see complete white out now behind us. The mountain pass ahead was between peaks of 6500 feet, so we began a circling climb to 7500 feet which took a while at around 400feet / minute. Once up there and clear of the peaks ahead we flew in the the clouds, for about 8 minutes or so then came out the other side. My instructor said, look at he ball and keep the blue at the top, trim for level flight. Fly the machine.
May all your landings be good ones.
keep the great videos! so much information and entertainment in your channel
best way to survive. 180 degree turn back to the airport. great channel dude.
Glad you enjoy it! :)
or just crack a cold one and full throttle!!!!
Whose here after the Kobe Bryant fatal incident. RIP TO ALL.
Yup
Saw this before, but it ended up in my recommended again. Rip, Kobe...
Wouldn't have been here otherwise
I am it popped up in my feed
Same ..all types of videos poping up on my feed
Almost all the useful advice & feedback has been said by now, particularly about Level departures and relating to the importance of the instruments and Scan.
According to your lower Localiser/VOR indicator, you crossed the extended runway centreline several times between 18:43 and 18:46 (and possibly elsewhere). This would have been really useful information which could have helped avoid almost missing the runway/airport prior to landing. But in this role this is a trend instrument, not a primary instrument and the Direction Indicator/Compass is still primary - so don't try to follow the localiser, you'll never do it so close in to the airport.
In real flight (not so relevant on the simulator) trim for fingertip control.
If inexperienced and concerned about "low and slow" I'd add a notch of flap to keep you above the stall without inhibiting your ability to climb.
If you find your suffering from a severe vestibular disturbance i.e. your instruments indicate straight & level, but your ear says you're banked at, say, 30degrees, that's really disurbing. Shake the plane with the rudder pedals and the severe disturbance is likely to improve - if it's really disturbing it can't get any worse and can only improve to mild or none! ( I experienced this early during my IR Training in a holding pattern and the rate-one turns felt like close to 80degrees bank instead of just 12! The temptation to counter this is very strong but this technique cured it).
Overall, a very instructive video (even if some viewers sort of lost the point).
UK IR pilot.
Pretty cool, thanks for the upload
Good video. My main strategy for VFR into IMC is avoid it, the second is reverse heading as soon as possible, the third is ask for assistance from ATC.
If you accidentally enter IMC from beneath (climbing into a cloud), just pitch down gently when you see everything starts to fade into grey/white and you should have visual in few seconds - If you enter IMC completely than ignore all your senses, avoid looking out of the window and rely 100% on the instruments even if you thing you are in a pitch up or in a roll... artificial horizon and vertical speed indicator are your best friend...
Inadvertent VFR into IMC... I've practiced this many times in the sim but I hope I never find myself there in real life. The first thing I'd do is trim for level flight then make a shallow 180° turn back (primarily using rudders) hopefully into better weather. Use all available technology on board; Autopilot wing leveler and heading, GPS terrain page, Select RNAV RWY 2 for Southbridge and let the GPS do most of the work until you're on short final. Probably better to go for the towered airport if there is one nearby. If you don't have any of that technology; honesty, the best thing to do is to punch in the nearest tower freq or 121.5 and declare and emergency. Let ATC guide you. Don't worry about the paperwork, with any luck you'll have the rest of your life to fill that out ;-)
Amazing video! Been there, done that... I learned from you, thanks for posting....
This is an interesting video. Some good lessons.here.
One thing I was taught 40 years ago when I was first learning to fly is the value of slowing the aircraft up in poor visibility.
2 x stages of flap, fuel pump on and power against the drag will see you at 70 knots with better visibility, more positive control on elevator and rudder and a lot more time to think and react. You are already set up for that quick decent to a fast approaching runway. Also your turn radius will be a lot tighter, just don't go doing steep turns at low speed. Your stall speed goes up considerably in steep turns.
Stall speed in a turn = normal stall speed x √ (1/cos angle of bank).
45kts x √ (1/cos 30 angle of bank)= 48.3kts and 45kts x √ (1/cos 60 angle of bank)= 63kts.
Of course real IFR is all about minimum safe heights approach plates and a well planned out method of approaching the runway and the way out to safe height if you miss the approach. It is about fitting into the system. Actually flying the aircarft on instruments is something that becomes automatic while you are thinking of everything else.
As I said very entertaining and quite informative.
I like the way you were talking about maintaining the safe height of 2000ft, all the while drifting down to 1500ft and the inadvertent stall was a classic and well recovered.
By the way "looking straight down is the last thing you would want to do. Lock into those instruments, keep looking forward (if you are going to hit something, that's where it will be coming from) and you will find that you tend to fly to where you are looking.
From driving a car, if you want to miss something, don't look at it. Look at where you need to go to miss it.
Great video as always. When you're talking about not wanting to talk to ATC to get you out of trouble because there might be paperwork, I would just suggest that doing some paperwork after you're on the ground is much preferable to crashing into the ground. Get them on the radio and ask for help to find an airport with better visibility and higher ceilings.
This video is a great example of why I intend to get my IFR ticket ASAP. Even though I don't intend to fly in bad weather, having that in my pocket will give me more options should I get myself into a tight spot.
Well said, friend.
Correct! And make sure you practise when you get it. You don't want to be trying to remember your lessons from 10 years ago on the day you need them.
In a flight simulator though you don't get the same kind of disorientation as you do in an actual aircraft. You only have your eyes as sensory input, not the fluid in your ears. You also don't feel the effects of gravity which could also disorientate you. Just do a constant rate turn in IMC in a flight simulator and you will see what I'm talking about. It's super easy to just look at the instruments because that's the only input you are given in a flight simulator. In an actual aircraft you have dozens of inputs which are in some cases counter indicating which results in the disorientation common with IMC. In an actual aircraft in a constant rate turn, if you aren't trained, will feel like you are flying level. When bringing it back to level flight you will feel like you are turning in the opposite direction. That never happens in a simulator (unless it's a full motion simulator I guess, but I've never flown in one of those). Not to get too technical, but you can only truly detect acceleration. If you are going a constant velocity there is nothing that can tell you that you are moving especially with no visual input.
That's why you keep your eyes glued to the artificial horizon in the cockpit and just trust what it says is true, and keep in mind that yes, you only feel _changes_ to your current condition. If you bank 20 degrees to the left, you'll feel it and then stop once your body adjusts. When you bank 20 degrees to the right to level off, you'll feel that lean to the right for a few seconds. But then if you're a pilot you should already know this.
Situation like this it`s challenging and scary, dominate the situation do not let the opposite..., keep cool, and calm get immediate assistance if possible..,and good luck...,You did well...., you did a good landing because you were able to land without a scratch, that`s important. Great video like always my friend!.
Subbed. I love flight simulator and this is a good channel. Awesome
First things first, good video, very interesting to follow. Secondly, I have occasionally flown in worse conditions, including Special VFR and found it's significantly more stressful than on the simulator. Thirdly, if this happened to me, I'd use the garmin GNS 430 to get me lined up - why didn't you use this at all? It's a great piece of kit. Assuming you know the exact orientation of the runway, you can create your own 'virtual' localiser. To start with, you'll need to be at least 10 miles away. Activate direct to on the Garmin, fly toward it until your track is identical to the bearing / orientation of the runway. Now you're lined up.
Next thing to do is determine your sink rate. To calculate that, it's ground speed multiplied by 5 - guess what, the Garmin tells you your ground speed ;-) So, continue to fly towards the airport with bearing = track and rate of descent = GS x 5. To check you've not deviated massively from the altitude, check it frequently against distance. For a 3 degree glide slope, you need to be 300 feet per nautical mile higher than the elevation of the field. And the Garmin will also give you the distance.
The formula is miles in distance x 300 plus elevation. So at 2 miles from an airfield with an elevation of 1000 feet, if you are at 1600 feet and if you're descending at (groundspeed x 5) feet per minute, you are on a 3 degree glide slope.... Try it, it works.
I use Prepar3d and set the Garmin up, fly in storms and just follow that rule. Works for me. But being VFR only, I hope I won't have to try it in real life :-) Keep up the videos, really like them.
Steve Paul Honestly its much easier to just load an approach and get vectored to it by atc. VFR Pilots should learn how to load approaches and fly an ils at a minimum. Also engage autopilot to hold alt and heading if the airplane has it and a 180 won’t get you out of it. Flying ifr is easy. What’s hard is flying ifr, programming radios, copying clearances, and talking all at the same time. Autopilot helps a lot to get you setup. I’m a recently rated instrument pilot. I can’t imagine trying to roll your own approach, in a real life situation. Garmin 430w, direct to whatever airport, hit proc button, select the approach, and pick an initial approach fix or select vectors if atc is helping. Then you just need to get the altitude close enough or pull it up on the approach plates that are probably on your tablet already. Get on localizer, the glide slope and just follow it down. It’s pretty easy compared to what you described. :-)
Watching this really helped me understand a little bit of maybe what Kobe Bryant's pilot was seeing and experiencing. RIP to everyone who passed in that accident.
ruclips.net/video/IRrYzII86aY/видео.html This is very common in aviation. Sad. People need to have the guts to return.
I knew I wanted to fly from the time I was 7 years old and got hooked watching Sky King. It took another 29 years to realize my dream. I started taking lessons in March 1981 and finally got my license in June 1982. I don’t fly any more for medical reasons. During my second or third lesson, my instructor put the hood on me as I was climbing out of the pattern at Cincinnati Blue Ash. He wanted to impress upon me the danger of accidentally flying into IMC. I kinda blew his mind when I not only kept the airplane upright, but leveled off, trimmed for cruise, and made 3 or 4 turns he called for. I didn’t tell him until the end of the lesson that I had read all of Frank Kingston Smith’s books and other material about instrument flying, and that I understood all of the instruments. I did assure him that I wasn’t showboating and understood the dangers. Several years after I got my ticket, I started instrument training and got most of the way through before I came to the realization that I would have to do most of my flying under the hood just to maintain currency. But I had done enough to know that I could stay alive in IMC. I even did my long instrument cross country under actual IMC, including a VOR approach to minimums. I was fortunate to have a good ATP for an instrument instructor. Keep flying! It’s the most fun you can have with your clothes on.
I flew a month ago in 3 Mile vis that got down to 2 Mile reported after i landed. It was 10 miles and deteriorating on departure for a 40nm sight seeing flight. I ended up turning around 30 miles out and the vis was very poor. Even though i was familiar with the area i did exactly what you did and i followed a major road back into the town and then used local landmarks to locate the airport. I even requested approach lighting turned up to maximum intensity. Made it! Very good experience for sure
If the airport elevation is 1000 feet and your altimeter reads 2000 feet, you are not 2000 feet above the ground. You are 1000 feet above the ground.
In this sim scenario your altimeter read 1000 feet while you were on the runway. So when you climbed to 2000 feet you had added 1000 feet to your altitude. That puts you 1000 feet above the airport AKA the ground.
Also note that cloud heights in METARs are heights above the ground. So if there is a 1500 foot ceiling at an airport with a 1000 foot elevation, that means the clouds are at 2500 feet on your altimeter.
The point here is to understand the difference between height above ground level (AGL) vs what your altimeter says, which is height above mean sea level (MSL).
I'm not a pilot but I thought the same thing during the simulation. He was a bit confused.
Yes, very critical to understand this fundamental pilotage rule - lest your flight come to an end very ubruptley.
14:30 You know what really nice to do after something like this? PAPER WORK. Because to fill out paper work you have to be alive.
Great video! I used to fly with my Dad IFR all the time and shoot ILS approaches and they were stressful to say the least! I can't imagine shooting an IFC approach without a working glide slope or GPS! Cool video
Hey bud! Glad to see you around :)
As an IFR-rated pilot I to commend you for making this video. When planning a single-pilot IFR flight, preparation is key. Of course this is obvious but it also reduces one important trigger to spatial disorientation - quick movements of the head. IFR flight, when done well, has the entire flight and any alternates ready at your fingertips. VFR into IMC is usually unexpected and quite horrifying, so the first thing pilots do is whip their head around looking for any reference to the horizon. This only compounds spatial disorientation at a time when a cool head and steady hand are most needed. I recommend keeping your head still, focusing on the panel, and occasionally using your eyes only to occasionally assess your surroundings. Feel for your flight bag and/or charts instead of turning to look for them. Raise your chart to your eyes instead of turning your head to look at the chart.
It is said that it takes every pilot about 30 seconds to successfully orient their eyes and brain to panel-only flying. I admit I never have the opportunity to watch myself fly into the soup because I committed to the panel at least a minute before going IMC.
Whether IFR or VFR-rated, control, communicate and confess. ATC is more than happy to assist.
This happened to me as a student pilot over SC in 1997: My final VFR cross country before I went for my PPL in fact. Before leaving Columbia / KCAE I checked the DUATS for the lastest weather information between there and Conway Horry County / KHYW noting 'Good but possibility of Marginal VFR' conditions were supposedly what I should expect ... IT happened as I neared Shaw AFB / KSSC twenty minutes after departure and the activation of my flight plan. As soon as I realised that I was down to the Minimum Safe Altitude shown on the sectional map and suddenly couldn't see the ground at all I alerted ATC that I had flown into IFR and was turning a 180 back to KCAE.
Soon made the discovery about the 'Hotel Cessna' having very little to offer in terms of comfort and stuff thanks to deciding I'd rather be safe than sorry in all respects! But I also learned that in aviation one cannot commence or proceed without the presence of an exit strategy they can rely upon: Most often this entails turning a 180 where the best exit option is located ... Failing to prepare only assures that you are preparing to fail / 'ASSUME does indeed make an ASS out of U and ME!' Never be afraid to ask questions and learn from every opportunity there is to learn at any stage in your career: Welcome to where the stupidest question of all was the one which should have been asked. Respect and Best of Luck :o)
I was nervous for you. As other people of said The most important thing is to contact ATC and get their help. Don't worry about paperwork worry about survival.
Well said.
I remember my instructor telling me that while he liked to fly in VMC with the nose trimmed very slightly down, requiring slight back pressure that gave him a better sense of 'connection' to the aircraft, doing so in IMC conditions was a quick way to get yourself dead.
I've never put it to the test myself - I prefer to trim 'neutral' anyway - but this video reminded me of his caution. I spent the whole of the second half wanting you to trim up a little because so much of your attention seemed to be focused on chasing the vsi that you didn't seem to have a lot left over for anything else. Did you get that feeling yourself, or was I just seeing what I was looking for because of his advice?
Great video series btw, thanks.
I love how smooth the view is in this video. What Flight Simulator are you using and what do you use to look around the cockpit like that?
Don’t fly trying to look at the ground you’ll just bank and fixate on it next thing you know your dead. Just climb and maintain wings level tell atc your situation they can slowly direct you to better conditions with modern radar. Like an old fashion DF steer. This is a mistake don’t be fearful of getting in trouble save yourself first. Half standard rate turns!
This is why pilots should get their instrument rating and try to keep current.
Great exercise. I love using that Carenado software for doing the same practice.
This flight reminded me too much of a time when flying in Oregon, (VFR) I got caught in weather in a 172 thinking my escape route would work, but when I did my 180, it too went down. I was close to getting my Instrument rating, but chose (unwisely) to try to stay visual. At one point we were down to just a few hundred feet following a road through the mountains (IFR) in driving rain, low ceiling and almost NO forward visibility flying into a mountain pass. I was getting ready crash land on the road when we got flash of sunlight ahead, flew to it, and broke out into the sunny Redmond Oregon area. Seeing the trees whip by in this video brought it all back. I used to fly the same plane (Warrior) as in this video.
RUclips only recommended me this video because of Kobe’s death.
I Got Horses In My Back exactly what I was thinking fuuu
Literally what happened.
What's ur point
I suggest you get your IR. It would be the best thing you’ve ever done. In the real world , you didn’t prove anything by getting on the ground in a simulator. You would have been toast way before you made it to that airport.
You would have been spatially disoriented immediately I watched your AI and it was all over the place. In a real plane , your brain and body would have played havoc
This "dark history" video sounds interesting, please make it soon!
concur :)
Ryfle60Aviation I'm guessing it's a difference between fsx and real life?
sooooooooon ;)
Spoiler... he's actually Airforceproud95
XD
Learnt alot. Thanks for your lesson
A very eerie feeling man.
Imagine doing this in hills. In a helicopter . Not really possible
mindciller it is possible. Being competent and proficient in flying instruments is the key to survival. Also making sound decisions. I have flown helicopters since 1993 in the US Army. I started in UH-1V I Washington State and CH-47s all over Europe and beyond. Qualified for 0-0 IFR departures due to instrument time and proficiency. Practice practice practice.
@@hoverluver well the pilot was a rated a CFII. He was an instrument instructor. He knows all that there is to be known, he teaches people how to fly off instruments. From what I've gathered, Helicopter Pilots are saying that the mistake is not having to get this certification again every 6 months, because it's a skill that can deteriorate.
Southside everything you mentioned about his qualifications is also the very reason why he could not admit he shouldn’t proceed. Sometimes all those qualifications causes too much ego to admit defeat.
@@redorange This is to me, he most succinct explanation of what happened, all the VFR to IMC logistics and who flew where when aside. The contuing question is why did he do what he did, i.e. continue on? And this sums it up. He thought himself all that and for some reason what keeps popping up in my head is this guy was pretty impressed with himself and I can imagine him saying to people, "I fly Kobe," and he didn't want to lose face in front of them and admit failure. So he lost all those lives because his prime focus was not safety but his own ego, as mentioned. Because at no point did he call for help or declare an emergency. Just silence.
Southside I also saw a video from a 777 and a helicopter pilot stating it’s obviously possible. But just cause you have a rating doesn’t mean you are proficient at it as most Helicopter flying is done in VFR. He also said that holding an IFR rating doesn’t mean you were trained in IMC the whole time.
I won't drive my car in this weather 🤣
trigger happy same! I take the day off
trigger happy ha ha have you seen the video in India of them driving in this weather on the freeway? They're all going 80 mph in zero visibility, you imagine the results. And they're all super suprised about it
doing 50mph with a car in this weather is ok, but doing 50 ias with a plane in this weather guarantees a casket
Simulator and real flying will always be different. I encourage flying with an IFR instructor too and I’ve been though to rely only on the instruments. Also remember that ATC is alway there to help you! Don’t be afraid to ask for help
I’ve been practicing ILS approaches in flight gear flight simulator, and the biggest thing I think is to watch your attitude indicator and your flight coordinator to keep the wings level as possible.I also watch the heading indicator which will tell me if I’m turning or not. If I get too far off the Alice/localizer and I’m getting low I make sure to keep altitude until I can get back on the localizer, and watch the airspeed so you don’t stall. If I were a pilot that was flying VFR I would always familiarize myself with the VOR’s along my flight path and Have the frequencies ready to go in the NAV 1 and 2 because I could use them to triangulate especially if I ended up in IMC.
How he hell did Kobe’s pilot get special VFR clearance? It doesn’t seem like that type of thing should just be given out, they should have told him to land the helicopter at Van Nuys Airport
Exactly
Because his helicopter was not IFR certified even though his pilot was IFR rated.
At that point Special VFR was the only choice they had.
Special VFR is not at all uncommon. Clear of clouds and 1 Mile vis. Special VFR is not for going anywhere just because you can get the clearance It is used to stay legal and get into the airport.
Special VFR is commonly used by helicopter pilots because they can fly low and slow in conditions that are less than 3 miles visibility and 1,000 foot ceiling and do it safely. It appears from what I’ve seen and read that the conditions got well below VFR minimums as the flight progressed and this pilot got boxed in by the fog, low ceilings and rising terrain.
@@pmh1nic And had his helicopter been IFR certified, he would've switched to IFR and be directed by ATC to ascend into the fog to clear the hills.
So the mistake was made before departure when he decided to take off in a non-IFR certified helicopter in foggy conditions, even though at that point he thought it wouldn't get much worse than the minimums.
I would be so afraid as a passenger looking out and seeing nothing but thick fog!
Itry2belogic 4 same ! I know the passengers were freaking out ... if they were looking out the window and just looking at the fog Jesus Christ I would’ve been crying, shaking and screaming let’s go back or get me out of here... and especially normal people like us that rarely fly.. I know people were already praying and trust me they were probably saying I should’ve just drove better. This give me anxiety 100x
It depends on if your around mountainous terrain other then that you'll be fine
I was flying my Cessna 150 at night southbound southeast of San Antonio. We were midflight heading towards Victoria Texas. Although there were flashes in the sky to the west of us, there was no forecast for weather of any sort. I have always been comfortable flying at night, the air is calm and you can almost always see city lights. Suddenly, we flew through a line of hail and was trained to not turn around since hail is normally in a narrow band and turning around increases your exposure time. I slowed the aircraft to 70 mph and pulled on the carb heat, keeping the wings level. In a few hours or maybe 15-20 seconds we passed out of the hail but flew into the belly of a cloud and all outside references were gone. I established a glide at 70 with a modest vertical speed still keeping the wings level, turned off the anti-collision beacon since it was flashing the clouds in front. I thought that the terrain was fairly flat at around 500 feet MSL. We were at about 3500 MSL to start and my wife checked the sectional for obstruction heights. We stayed on our VOR track and descended to about 2000 and broke out. We continued on our way and gave a pirep to Refugio FSS. I had good training and everything was second nature, even though I had about 80 Hours total time. This occurred in 1970. I stopped flying with about 3500 Hours but have not forgotten that moment.
When I was studying for my IFR, I flew Microsoft Simulator for hours every night. I always set the absolute worst conditions possible and made sure it all was at night. I'd fly missed approaches, holding patterns, and whatever else bad I could throw at myself. It is a marvelous honing tool and seconds only to the hood or actual IMC with an instructor.
8:50 to see the possible conditions the pilot of Kobe Bryant was flying in.
trenton mackey so why wouldn’t he just slow down? If he’s flying blind like that and can’t tell which way he’s turning.... why continue to accelerate at such a high rate of speed? I really don’t understand why he’d continue to go so fast when visuals are nonexistent.
@@57RollsRoycePhantom Perhaps the pilot didn't even realize he was going that fast. Perhaps he decided to believe his brain and not the instruments. Perhaps he believed the instruments and they were wrong. Hopefully we get some more for sure answers to those types of questions soon.
trenton mackey damn that’s wild they were literally out there flying blind man, I can’t even imagine how they were thinking and heart rate was going
I flew with an instructor that stressed trimming for strait and level flight. If you enter IMC you can always let go of the controls to recover to strait and level. You then do all steering with small rudder adjustments leaving your hands free to work navigation equipment
(5000hr ATP) I started watching a little upset that the video might encourage VFR into IMC (and get away with it) but after watching, I'm grateful you did this video. I have to add that real world IMC can be 0 visibility in which case this video would not begin to depict the danger and difficulty involved. I hope that other VFR pilots will heed your final thoughts which I will paraphrase as "don't do it!" If a VFR pilot enters IMC, the best course of action is a smooth coordinated 180 degree turn to fly back out of it- live to fly another day. Getting weathered in somewhere other than my destination has turned into some of my fondest memories of flying- think of it as an unexpected adventure not a disaster. I agree with others that confessing your situation is incredibly important! Don't be afraid of the Feds, there greatest desire is to hep you out of your bad situation. They can work on finding you someplace to get down VFR while you are doing your best to control the airplane. The mantra I have lived by for over 30 years of flying: If there is any question that it can be completed safely, the answer is NO- accept it.
I'm a VFR pilot with experience much like the pilot here. I have flown in less than optimal conditions, but never as bad as the conditions as the middle section of minimum VFR. Looked pretty scary to me. One thing I did practice myself is lining up on the runway extension lines given by my GPS. That is something that would have helped him not miss the first approach to the runway. To me the scariest thing was the 180 turn at low altitude to come back to the runway the second time.
Have I dug too deep into the Kobe Bryant tragedy? Here on 2-1-2020💜💛💜
This is extremely dangerous, theres almost no visibility at the 3/4 mile change, I guess I would climb higher and radio the tower of the conditions, maybe flight following too, I would most likely turn around to where I came from and hope to get back to the area of visibility soon, this is crazy
Excellent video. The day I got my pilot's license I got VFR into IMC....talk about a pressure test!
Interesting video thanks for sharing. Im a private pilot in the UK and have a restricted instrument rating IR(r) which allows me to fly into IMC within certain airspace classifications. Single operation hand flying in IMC conditions still poses a challenge for most pilots even with all the correct ratings. Even tuning a radio can be a nightmare. Inadvertent flight into IMC for a VFR pilot really can be deadly. The first thing I would do is ask for a vectored approach, let the controller do the navigation for you. As already mentioned in some of the comments below, it’s the spatial disorientation which gets you. Quite naturally you will want to go with what your sensory information is telling you which you have to ignore when flying IMC. That is something which is far easier said than done. Add to that moderate turbulence if flying into cumulous cloud which sends your needles all over the place and throw in some concerned passengers. Oh and icing. It’s about being able to keep your cool and to fly smoothly, if you panic then it’s probably game over. But this is all part of the training. One tip I can pass on from my flight instructor is to chew gum when flying in IMC, it massively helps with concentration.
You somehow survived despite all your mistakes. Never, ever try scud running in IMC conditions! Get on your instruments and climb wings level to the the minimum safe sector altitude, declare an emergency on the radio to ATC and squawk 7700. Confess you are not instrument rated in IMC and request turns and/or vectors to a radar approach to a landing. Once on the ground, there will be plenty of time to deal with any paper work, but at least you will be alive to fill it out.
Jesus, I have anxiety and its only a game.
Excellent stall recovery bro.....tough stuff to hold together when your in the soup.
This occurred to me in my early days of flying as a VFR pilot . On a cross country I inadvertently entered cloud and lost total visibility. . Fortunately my instructor, a former airline pilot,had hammered emergency instrument flying ,well over and above the requirements of the U.K. pilot training . We had conducted several hours of flights in real IMC ( not hard in cloudy U.K.) with sole reference to instruments and recovery from unusual attitudes . It had given me enough confidence to not panic but to appreciate the urgency of the situation and the dangers .
I extricated myself having contacted ATC and returned to my home airport in VMC . I think pitot and carb heat would also be a good choice in this situation.
Biggest lesson for me was my poor decision making that allowed me to get sucked into IMC ..fly what weather we see not the forecast.
Please make the dark history video about flight sim.., sounds very interesting
soooooon ;)
The death of Kobe brought me here. Rip legend.
Hello from Fitchburg! Love your videos!
Hello Fitchburg, this is Worcester calling! Do you fly out of FIT?
I wish I flew out of anywhere! I never got to finish my ticket. I can almost throw a rock and hit the airport from the house.
Then you must have great view of all that traffic :) Why don't you go finish up? I imagine it would make you feel so accomplished, no?
This happened to me about 25 years ago. At that time I had an old Mark 5. I got into complete IFR after crossing The Mississippi in my old Tripacer. I remained calm and did a u-turn out of the soup. Scared the crap out of me.
Believe it or not this was the same situation what happened to Kobe helicopter SPECIAL VFR CLARANCE into IMC conditions at ATC should ask for a IFR while Holding at Burbank waiting to fly through class C airspace before proceeding to Van Nuys airport the Burbank ATC stated that Van Nuys had Multiple IFR departures waiting for departures... I predict New ruling on that ATC should advance cancelled special VFR in Kobe situation that flying ahead of the aircraft maybe at Burbank ATC or Van Nuys due to the multiple departures only IFR should be a must landing at Van Nuys at that time. Fog on the coast of California weather before midday Visionbinary is about 2 miles any morning... much respect to experience pilots that fly through fog early in the morning .... my condolences to all those who lost their life’s for us to learn hindsight is 20/20 vision ... Note to FAA...no more special VFR... IMC can happen at a drop of a dime ...We have Kobe to thank for this lessons learn So sorry someone has to die for us to learn our mistakes... much less 8 people...so sad...
Kobe's company didn't fly IFR. Wasn't an option.
As they were leaving Van Nuys D airspace you can hear ATC say visibility is at 2.5 miles. At that point they have transitioned back to VFR.
Have you ever heard about commas, full stops and capital letters?
Reo Anderson I had a stroke reading that comment but it sounds like it makes sense
Blaise Semenya wait, so you’re saying there was bad visibility where the helicopter took off? My understanding is that the flight ceiling was low but usable at takeoff, then they entered an area with worse visibility (dense low fog) and higher terrain which is when the I-IMC occurred. Stupid to stay at the same altitude over rising terrain, and then not 180 fast enough once IMC. But you’re saying they couldn’t see anything at any point which makes far less sense...
It would have been worse in a real airplane. I flew in a cloud briefly with an instructor. It was like a ghost takes over your body. Your perception of motion is no longer accurate.
Hm. Interesting. I hope to find out soon.
Good video, perfect example of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Had something similar happen to me. The ink wasn't even dry on my PPSEL and I decided to fly into Port Townsend WA with another pilot-friend one fine morning. We each flew our own aircraft, flying in very loose formation. We were concerned about the weather so we continued to monitor our home base ATIS.
We got halfway through lunch and the ceilings started to come down rather quickly.
Like the dummies we were, we decided to head back. Back into descending clouds and rain. within 5 miles of the airport we were scud-running to about 100' below the traffic pattern.
As the wheels hit the runway, the airport went IFR.
Honestly when I'm in flight sim I mostly fly white out conditions and pretty much just look at the instruments the entire time.
I would highly advise climbing in the scenario though, especially in unfamiliar locations, I kept plowing into mountains 🤣
Its really fun to setup insane scenarios like losing instruments and engines in IMC and see if you can make it.
Seriously try it sometime in FSX, go into IMC with nothing but altimeter, compass, and GPS (I mean it's fair to assume you'd have your cellphone on you if nothing else)
"When flying try to stay in the middle..avoid the edges." Orville Wright.
I've never sat in a cockpit or even used a flight simulator for that matter... so I have a silly question...
If you were in a real VRF into IMC situation, would putting on the hood or foggles to avoid looking outside be useful in reducing spacial disorientation while trying to fly from the instruments and co-ordinate maneuvers with ATC? What I mean is could the hood/foggles help to focus your attention in an emergency situation?
Great video again Nick. I use X Plane. What Piper Warrior add-on do you use? Is it working on X Plane too?
This is likely what happened to kobe and the helicopter that crashed. Great video wish the pilot watched this.
Adrian Woodard yep yep
Blaming the pilot is fucking sickening!!!! He was a seasoned pilot 10 years of experience under his belt and has flown under these conditions. Were you there??? Obviously not. He too lost his life! Sick fuck you are. FOH hater!!!
Lisa Holte, Your Access To The Red Carpet! No need to cuss though, right? It‘s on tape that the pilot requested to fly visually while being in foggy hillside terrain. You can‘t deny this can you?
@@accesstotheredcarpet Thats like saying you cant blame an experienced driver for driving into a freezing rainstorm while speeding, and then crashing. Go fuck your self. No ones specifically angry at the pilot. They just made a deadly mistake. Simple as that.
what really bothers the hell out of me is how so many individuals who are extremely ignorant to aviation think the whole koby catastrophe to be a conspiracy. They have no idea how dangerous VFR in IMC conditions are and how instruments can only tell you so much.
Socrates A facts damn fools allover social media thinking they’re “woke”
did the helicopter pilot let the tower controller know he couldnt see? because they made him circle for 15 minutes in fog.
@@b3at2 As far as I know, he told the tower that he now had VFR and the tower naturally let him on his way. They clearly did not have VFR and I guess he must have got impatient bc they were were circling for so long.
Flight in IMC is done safely *everyday* .
@@socratesa2536 in my opinion the tower killed him...they made him circle in the fog for 15 minutes!... the tower had to have known it was foggy.
I really enjoyed this video! I had what I remember as a night VFR into IMC situation a few years ago as a new pilot. Clouds aren't easy to see at night. My strategy at the time was to climb and ask for help. I was lucky to find clear air and land at my departure point.
Come down to Hartford and we can fly in some clouds. I'm always looking for safety pilots anyway.
Thanks for the offer, mate! :) What do you fly down there?
Depends on the day? Club planes. Favoring a Cutlass lately. Sometimes a PA-28.
Very nicely done...as a fellow pilot and one that is instrument rated the old adage about if you fly into IMC you do an immediate 180 degree turn and fly out, rings true. You took off in marginal conditions, you should expect that things are going to go south real fast!!!. Have your maps, frequencies within reach and most of all situational awareness is going to keep you alive.
I have a question though about the add ons. Where did you get the Warrior add on and is the weather another add on? If so where did you obtain it? I have just put together a "flight deck" a dedicated gaming computer, Track IR5, rudder pedals and control yoke but still am working with the default 172
Thanks for the advice. That's exactly what I had hoped people would do with this video. It's a heavily modified version of the Carenado Archer, I use REX for my weather, and I wish you the best of luck with your setup! :)
I feel there should be much more ifr training as part of the ppl cause i know exactly how it feels and how fast the weather can deteriorate, vfr to imc number one killer of pilots
Definitely agree.
You're going to laugh at me, and truly, I hope you take this tiny suggestion serious, but, the best way to actually get use to nav, autopilot and doing multiple things at once, is literally get in a boat and navigate at night.. I have been a small boat captain for years, and the autopilots are very similar. Navigation, compass and coming back home from 75-120 nm tuna trips, in complete socked in, can't see 2 feet in front of you fog, navigating a very critical coastline, relying fully on instruments and traversing a difficult ocean under navigation, compass, working your 180-360 deg real time, using radar, autopilot navigation, dual chartplotters and working your waypoints can give you some serious lessons in safe navigation.. wrapping your head around how the instruments guide you in.. I have had to navigate close to a very rocky inlet, dozens upon dozens of times.. zooming into your charts, with the exact coarse set, or else I'd impale myself upon rocks, etc... This helps develop your skills in navigating using nothing but instruments..
To switch over to flying VFR to IMC, you simply just practice full time using your instruments. Add autopilot where you can, but it's simply compass, altitude, waypoints, airspeed, and attitude indicator. Rate change is another critical factor. Driving a boat on instruments simply takes the 3 dimensional equation out of this perspective, but seriously, the two are closely connected.
Before I was interested in aircraft, many pilots had been on my boat, and could not believe the similarities between driving a nice pocket yacht and flying an airplane.. Know your airspeeds and watch your instruments. If you do not have an auto pilot you can trust, fully, then it's a somewhat simplified chore flying. I use the same skillsets learned in navigating waterways, in flying planes now days. Cheers.
Having piloted many boats at night (albeit in favorable conditions) I think I would agree with this :)
Yeah, you should try coming into an intense harbor, at night, in ultra dense fog, running your boat by only instruments... I've done this dozens of times.. Radar, so I can line up the long inlet (dangerous one as well) compass to get general heading, auto-pilot and chartplotters, lining up angle between the two narrow jetties, radar to determine other boat traffic and buoys, etc. You learn to solely drive on instrument only, and I've heard seasoned captains of commercial boats, freak out and panic and stay outside the narrow inlet, while I can just calmly drive straight into the bay.
Knowing your instruments, knowing and judging distances on the fly, trusting your multiple chartplotters, knowing the difference between magnetic and polar north and be able to compensate on the fly for your exact location.. Many people don't even know that there's a difference between magnetic and true north.. which is based on your geographical location.. navigating a rough inlet, and being off just a few degrees can mean life or death in my local area.. Many people have died when their boats went down or struck rocks in this very nasty inlet. They nicknamed it "The Jaws", because it has eaten people, boats, even kayaks and scuba divers.. very dangerous.. if you don't check weather, and you're trying to navigate in through the fog... you could end up dead in minutes. Tide rips in and out, and the inlet will go from smooth and relaxing trip out, to a boiling, raging hell that is not navigable in even the biggest boat in a matter of an hour.
Ok, Cheers Friendly Skies. I look forward to being a new subscriber and following your flying antics. I have multiple questions about some videos I watched... I will ask on the videos themselves when I get a chance later today.
The GPS if working properly could be a great emergency resource. You could fly direct to an airport and then use the OBS button to draw a line selecting the runway orientation with the CDI. Then you could zoom in and use the line as a guidance. This is also very useful at night.
Great Vid!
Hey! Good to see you are still breathing. That being said, like JustDorian84 mentioned, you could probably go out with a CFI for some hood and stall practice, couldn't hurt. I myself volunteer as tribute if you want to go down to KHWV or KISP (On long island around 70nm down south from you). It would be my pleasure to bless you with free instruction :P... In the meantime, fly safe! and good day!
Also... Those "VFR" minimums are really for professionals. The FAA has those minimums down so much to facilitate a pilot for hire to ferry planes with defective equipment to a nearby base really... NOT for Sunday pilots :)
Thanks for the offer, mate! I'll let you know if I'm ever in the area!
Does this stuff show you your terrain?? I mean what if kobe pilot was flying correctly and he couldn’t see the mountain?
Terrain avoidance is an option in some planes and helicopters, but Kobe's helicopter was not equipped with it.
That is what is at the center of all of this. The helicopters are not equipped with TAWS (Terrain awareness and warning system). They would have had a better chance but nothing is guaranteed.
C N but does this system tell you where to go? It seems like it tells you what to avoid not what to do about it.
But he wasn’t! He could see the terrain, so no benefit of a computer yelling at you “TERRAIN TERRAIN”. He knew he was too close and climbed into the cloud to get away from the terrain.
TAWS wouldn’t have made any difference.
@@TimToussaint i thought he was climbing to get flight following???
Agree with the comments below (I'm an MEC) - real world has a few extra factors around the sensations, plus tuning radios, navigating, and talking can create serious distractions. That said.. i think you made your point. Thanks for sharing.
(real worst case would be doing it at night - maybe the next video?)
I spend many years flying in that area. Was based in HFD, did a lot of my training in WOR, PVD , BDL etc.
VFR flying in the northeast is very limiting. My advice is, unless it’s clear and 100, don’t stray from your home area. Any flying mission that requires more than 50 miles cross country is difficult to complete if VFR only. I did my long cross country on New Years Eve with the longest leg from LEB to HFD and was on the edge of an approaching snowstorm most of that leg. VFR minimums all the way, in fact HFD went IFR as soon as I landed. I know the tower waited for me to land!
I got my instrument rating. It’s a necessity if you want to travel up there. It makes flying much easier. Climb up on top, no worries and shoot an approach at your destination.
If flying over water, it’s a necessity. VFR over water with clouds and fog is a killer. You have no visual references. None. And that weather can change in minutes. In our flying club, we often had VFR pilots take one of the planes to MVY or NAN and get stuck there because the fog rolled in. I got quite a few free hours ferrying the planes back IFR after the VFR members had to go home by ferry boat.
Become IFR certified, and file IFR frequently, especially if cross country. Be prepared to fly various approaches, RNAV, LOC and ILS. Learn and practice a radar guided approach. That’s your ace in the hole if you have multiple instrument failure in the clouds. The controller will guide you both horizontally and vertically to the runway. The controllers like to do that for you if they aren’t busy. They have to practice that as well to remain proficient. I used to do those after at Barnes airport in Westfield.
Good luck and stay safe.