HI .Nigel, Gary Sugal here What an amazing and comprehensive review Can't say thank you enough and I'm sure Syos feels the same . I kind of feel like the "new kid on the block" .. but as you mention I've been doing high tech CNC metal mouthpieces for over 34 years so hopefully I bring to the table and know something about making mouthpieces. JFTR : I started making 3d pieces in 2015 and introduced some KW models at the 2017 Namm show. While it may be an easier route to duplicate the traditionall standard VanDorens, Selmers etc.. I decided early on to create my own original designs. with concepts never done in a mouthpiece before --that was way back in 88. All the pieces I made were from conceptual ideas I felt as a player were needed : they included a unique baffle, all in one chamber, perfect facings, tracks under the bite plate, "snow -hill-mini-tracks" inside the chamber -allowing the mouthpiece to resonate, a machined compound radius. etc. Since you received a few "proto-types" .. I've created over 248 .stl files (12 models, 10 colors, 10 sizes) with those same conceptual ideas. Incorporated into each piece. I also made every model available with and without a bite plate. The carbon fiber models offers the player a dynamic tonality that in all these years I've never experienced: . There's a lot of information on my web stie : www.sugalmouthpieces.net. (site is evolving). You'll also find some outstanding musicians there who are starting to use my works. BTW you will also find a drop down menu where you can actually customize your selected model. FINALLY, Yes: 3D printed mouthpieces no doubt about are the wave of the future.: and those entering the field should embrace the technology both from a design point of view and as an engineering marvel : they should also not loose sight of the fact there still and will always be a need to add old school TLC. .. that is what I do at the bench every day God Bless and All STAY SAFE :
Gary these are fantastic mouthpieces, and I would like to thank Nigel for showing them since I never saw any of them before. They sound fantastic and I really like their metal-like shape.
I play a Syos on my Tenor and Bari. I have a few different types, and all have been custom made. I’m impressed that when you create your own, they actually do a very good job at nailing what you want. I’m a big fan of a warm, breathy sound for my ballads, yet, something very responsive for a bebop tune...and they made a mouthpiece that makes it easy to do so. It’s worth every penny. Great review video, as always. It’s nice that you took the time to make this to help others who may be curious in these. 👍
Super demo Nigel. I have several different SYOS MPs and they are great. They did not seal with my Legere reeds, but do with cane. However I did receive one that was terrible. I could have sent it back, the SYOS people are wonderful and there is a 30 day return period. But rather than return it, I put a large piece of 600 grit wet/dry sand paper on a flat piece of glass and made the table completely smooth( avoiding the facing) .That mouthpiece seals perfectly and plays really well. Once again I want to say how nice the people at SYOS are. I would like to try Gary´s mouthpieces also but I live in Denmark and the customs expenses are high.
Cheers Bob. Really interesting to hear you “refaced” your SYOS. That’s a great idea. Gary was telling me today that he does some finishing on his pieces before sending to make sure there are no facing issues. Great to hear you are enjoying your SYOS pieces - they have a lot of choice.
I play a syos mouthpiece on the tenor and bari and im using the Daro models and I love them! For me personally I love metal mouthpieces but its just not all that comfortable, so sticked with a hard rubber for a bit until I saved up for a syos mouthpiece to try it out. I like how they feel personally. But also each to their own, I say go give them a try you can always return them.
Last year Gary Sugal worked with me to get an awesome mouthpiece to me by Xmas. Heck of a nice guy! We had several conversations and he went above and beyond. Happy to see him in this market!! I liked the MB1
I got a SYOS Chad LB 7* mouthpiece lately, after playing a hard rubber OttoLink 6* for years. I think it's great, though I feel less confident with it probably since I chose this wide opening that I am not used to. I love, the sound however I really need to play it much more, especially since I sometimes squeak on the high G. Very difficult to practice with this lockdown coming on due to Covid-19, but I really like the fact that 3D printed mouthpieces offer a huge variety of mouthpieces shaped by people who actually know what they are doing, so you just need to choose whatever they shaped. Needless to say Nigel, you always sound fantastic and it's simply pleasure listening to you. That Gary Sugal brown mouthpiece got me curious now.
I have the Chad LB and absolutely love it, I play a great deal of rock gigs,but I’ve always found that getting a sound that cuts through can also mean that the sound particularly in the upper register can be a bit thin,when I tried the CLB mouthpiece, I found that the core to the sound for me was broader,and also I like that when I am playing jazz I can lay back and sub tone and the sound is lush and expressive
Cheers Ian, it’s good to be versatile like that. I was surprised at the edginess of the Chad LB piece but I’m using Legere signature reeds - perhaps cane would be a little darker. Loads of projection though for sure so you’ll cut through on those rock gigs!
Wow! what a great video, amazing differences in sound. I would have been a little skeptical to have just been told the differences could be so big. Some of them were so bright they got the sax to sound close to a trumpet. So clearly, different mouth pieces for different music pieces. Great info! Thanks for this. For my taste though, the Sugal KW1 turbo gets the raw sexiness of Sax sound. Go Turbo!
Excellent video! Thank you for doing it Nigel! I guess 3D printed mouthpieces would be even better if they'd have a flat table and a proper facing which is easy to get with a refacing, so 3D printed + refacing could be a good combination.
I actually play a Chad LB 8 and it’s amazing, it makes me love playing my tenor so much! Just today I got a Windy City Woodwinds S+ for my alto, so I’m excited to try it. I believe they do some facing work so you can get a seal with the reed with theirs.
Hi Nigel, I play Syos mouthpieces on both my tenor and alto and love them both. If you want them to pass the "Pop Test" no problem, just give the facings a light rub on a sheet of wet & dry paper, and they will pop away as good as any other mouthpeice.
Hi Nigel, you would play great with anything. I am a happy owner of Syos mps for alto and baritone. I believe the real added value of 3D printing is the customization process that allows you to tailor the mp for you. If you buy a Syos custom mouthpiece, actually you buy a tailoring process. You get to the final version of the mp by subsequent attempts and you can customize anything - baffle, chamber, rollover, etc. As a baritone player, there aren’t that much mps in shops and on used market to test. The possibility to order one as per my likes and to refine it is really wonderful.
I had a SYOS and as far as I could figure out, the reason it doesn't seal is because the table isn't smooth because of the printing lines. If its smoothed out, it may seal and play better. I also noticed at the end of the shank, where it fits onto the mouthpiece, around the edge didn't look 100% with slight holes in it. I had a custom alto 1.85mm tip, medium chamber and rollover baffle and 4.5 on brightness and a 6.5 on resistance. I play mostly on classical mouthpieces (Selmer S80 and Soloist currently) as I get the non buzzy, smooth response I am after on those and as SYOS mouthpieces are more Jazz oriented and have thinner tips and rails, they don't give me a response I am after as its a bit too buzzy. I also noticed a kind of fuzz/fizz, however you call it, in the sound and I read that its also due to the table not being smooth and when that it smoothed out, that fuzz goes away. Saying that, the one I had was really freeblowing and played with an even tone throughout and tuning was easy. I was surprised just how lightweight it is and it also didn't vibrate in my mouth the way hard rubber or metal mouthpieces do, making it more comfortable for me to play on. Quite good mouthpieces, they just need to smooth out the table for them to play better.
The say they don't want to do that to not mess with the "perfect dimensions" of the piece, quite a mouthful considering that this 3D printing process does not exactly yield super high accuracy results. I think they are really good at marketing and drawing the crowd in, every RUclipsr I've seen test one of these sounds better on his or her regular mpc than on any of these. The Sugal MB1 sounds alright, all the others sound exactly like what they are - cheap plastic mouthpieces. Both Syos sound atrocious in this comparison, kinda harsh and way too upfront, not much complexity in the tone. Of course a great player can make them sound decent and this is not a criticism of the person playing the mouthpieces at all, he does his very best to make them sound as good as possible but there is only so much you can do with these, all just in my humble opinion of course.
Cheers for your thoughts here, no doubt these 3d pieces are cheaper than a CNC piece but it is surprising how, but using a good design they still perform well. I was sceptical but pleasantly surprised with them I have to say.
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Probably hard to judge on a RUclips video but the fact that these don't seal is kind of a dealbreaker for me. I can get the appeal of a very freeblowing mpc that gives you easy altissimo but for my ears there's something missing in the sound.
I bought my custom syos mpc last year and I'm in love with it. Being able to talk about design with the engineer is great and also you can iterate 3 times which was really important in my case as the first prototype was not what I wanted. People are complaining about how SYOS making (supposedly) a lot of money from a printed plastic mpc but how many players can design a mpc? the real treat is to create your own mpc. But you should learn about design first (baffle, chamber, and so on).
I tried a Tivon P Syos in a sax shop and quite enjoyed it - free blowing and warm with a good response. When I looked at the tip opening it was a 9! I'm more of a 6*/7...so I do think some people might do well to size-up to get the sound and response they're used to. I also find there's a 'foofy, fluffy, fizz' sound with plastic mouthpieces which I'm not a fan of. Good for subtoning but not if you like a more focused sound.
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool I tried a SYOS Tivon P mouthpiece 7* because I normally play a Otto link metal 7*, but I couldn't blow the Tivon P 7* with ease. Do you think I need to move up to an 8 or 9 tip opening, or move down to a 6 or 7 on the Tivon P?
I tried a SYOS Tivon P mouthpiece 7* because I normally play a Otto link metal 7*, but I couldn't blow the Tivon P 7* with ease. Do you think I need to move up to an 8 or 9 tip opening, or move down to a 6 or 7 on the Tivon P. SYOS suggested I move down to a 6 or 7?
@@a1saxy I would try going UP in size. I've been playing a 6* HR piece and I couldnt believe the ease with which the Tivon 9 played! If I bought one I'd probably try an 8 or 8*. It may be worth going UP in size. That was my experience and the shop owner said the same. Just my thoughts. Syos are great at helping you find the best fit I believe.
Very good review Nigel. I purchased an MB II and a KWII from Gary. The KWII ( I think a bit brighter than the KWI) is in carbon fiber. I took the KWII to a gig recently and played it all night on a straight-ahead jazz gig. It did great. Good solid sound all over the horn. Since gigs are now few and far between there's been no opportunity to road test the MBII. But in my studio it does come across with lots of power. During the purchase Gary's customer service was wonderful, he not only let me swap out mpcs but actually custom made these mpcs without his usual acrylic bite plate. For me it was more comfortable. i just but a mpc patch on and I'm good. Yes, 3D is here to stay and i anticipate more companies offering 3D.
I have a SYOS mp and now would play no other. As a relative beginner, ease of play is (almost) everything. I've done the usual basic struggle, through Yamaha 4c to a Jody Jazz HR*, with all the hooha of wetting and quickly scrapping grass reeds and all the old fashioned jazz. After buying into SYOS I could effortlessly and reliably go from low Bb to high F# from the get go. Even with a 7 tip opening which should be too big for a novice, but isn't. Coupled with a Legere reed my enjoyment of the sax has been doubled - no fiddling with cane reed, no struggling to get sound out. Playing sax is now easy, just 'plug n play'.
Nigel, I was surprised by the MB1 Sugal.. fantastic sound! Btw, your recording is really really good, I could hear differences very well! Thanks a lot !
I play a tenor SYOS Scott Paddock with a 2.50 Legere American Cut reed. I really like this set up! I was using Daddario Select Jazz which I liked but my SYOS is actually easier to play and more versatile which helps me play the different gigs I do from Gospel, pop, standards, to funk and rock.
You sounded great (as always) on all four. For me, I liked the Sugal MB1 Turbo the best. The SYOS Chad LB and KW1 Turbo, although sounded different, had the same impact to me. They were a tie. The SYOS Tivon P. was the one I least liked.
Hi Nigel, your videos are always great material for us who are still trying to learn the art of horn and find our place in sax world. I was just thinking which mouthpiece to get, metal one or 3D and your video helped a lot. I think I am going to go with Syos. Any recommendation for alto? They have big selection and I am not quite familiar with all the players there. However that said, keep going with your videos. I am a big fan of yours and I do believe you are helping me to become better player. Thank you for that.
I liked the Tivon P. Mouthpiece best but I believe that embouchure/oral cavity shape also affects tge overall sound a player produces. I own a Lorenzo Ferrero tenor mouthpiece and I enjoy playing on it. My sax teacher commented on tge fuller, warmer richer sound I tend to get on it compared to a few of my others. Tge facing was too rough for my liking. When I got it, I used some very fine emery paper to smothen it and I prefer to use cane reeds on it rather than synthetic ones.
Great video thanks! I really liked your sound on all of them. was nice to hear the Sugal, I really liked its core. I bought the Tivon P. for tenor out of curiosity. It plays really good. Not going to replace my ToneMaster and Drake, but I still am keeping it around. Where I am most excited about the 3d printed movment is in the soprano and baritone market... really under represented.
Hey Nigel, thanks for comparing these 3D mouthpieces! I’m wondering, how do they compare to hard-rubber mouthpieces, such as the Vandoren Java? Those go around maybe $120 or so, actually a little less than the 3D ones in price. Would greatly appreciate your advice!
Hi Nigel. Love your stuff. Thank you. I have only been playing alto saxophone for 1 year. Is it good practice to take a wee break from playing the saxophone for a few days or even a week or two ?
Cheers Pat. Great question - personally as I get older I do enjoy taking breaks away from my sax of a few days here and there. I always pay the price afterwards of having to work harder getting my chops back, but it also refreshes my musical outlook and creativity. So, I think yes, it’s a good idea (in moderation of course!)
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Thank you getting back to me so quickly. I am using a v16 vandoren 6A mouth piece and 3 vandoren v16 reed. I can play for 2 hours then I start to squeal lol. Do you think this mouthpiece and reed might be a bit to big me at this early stage. Or will it help with my development ? Thank you so much Pat
I bought an insaneintherain signature syos and after refacing it it was without question the best mouthpiece I have ever played. I sold all my other mouthpieces except my ottolink after buying it.
@@olafstenzel4361 the two things I did where sand down the table to get the piece to seal and sand a bit off the very tip to make it more rounded and the reed ended up responding a little better.
To my ear I liked the Chad LB Sound for my taste. it's got a little more edge which I like. The others do sound good and obviously great quality. I play a Runyon 10 custom made for by Santy Runyon about 6 years before he passed. I've been wanting to Try Theo Wanne's Durga.
I will add my opinion for what it's worth: I ordered a SYOS Scott Paddock mpc and played it for a while. I could not believe the ease of altissimo and the shear volume of sound it produced. So much volume in fact, that I wanted to change it out (free of charge). I ordered the SYOS Zem Audu mpc instead. After having tried that I never looked back and immediately sold my Otto Link STM 6* and Vandoren Metal V16. I always wanted the Theo Wanne Durga 4, but that wish is quickly diminishing. Don't knock the SYOS if you haven't tried it.
I tried the SYOS but it wasn't right for me - the company was great to deal with and I sent it back without any questions. Very good customer service. I guess I'm just a bit too traditional/conservative and the whacky colours and ligs just don't float my boat! They sounded a bit edgy and I also didn't;t like the fact that it didn't seal properly - that 'pop-test' is just second nature to me and I missed it!!! For the same sort of money, the D'Addario Jazz Select is a good bet...but I am personally having my own battle between Theo Wanne and Jody Jazz! All good fun! As usual, Nigel sounded great with this selection of mouthpieces.
Hi, first of all, i like your chanel and I‘m very happy about every new video you load up. A couple of days ago I got my Syos Custom Mouthpiece and I love it. If you are interested, I made a video of it. It’s too much to write down. Thank you for inspirating and teaching me so much.
McGill Music Sax School yeah, I‘m glad to hear that. I wanted to buy one of your courses for so long and if time permits I will do it when winter is drawing in. Hope that I can learn a bit about bebop articulation and improvisation. I like your style of teaching. Here is the link to my video that you haven’t to search through all my vids. ruclips.net/video/whMo6_0nAms/видео.html
Nice, Sugal getting in on 3D printing is very cool. Love the slotted ligature too. Also: Berg Larsen has mouthpiece specials for mouthpieces that have slight cosmetic damage; they sell them for ~$150-$175 usually and is a good alternative for a metal mouthpiece. I have one for alto, tenor, and bari, and they're all I use. You sounded the best on that MB1 I'd say.
I got my own SYOS after visiting the Paris showroom. I do love it, but the large exterior barrel is not to everyone's liking. Also the ligature makes twisting the mouthpiece on the neck a little bit of a problem.
It sounded like the Syos mouthpieces responded better to me, the Chad LB was in your face, but I like the sound of the Tivon P. model. It sounded like the Sugal models played well, just not as well. His KWI metal mouthpieces are fab, not so sure these compare.
That’s interesting. I’ve never played Gary’s metal pieces but it would be interesting to put them side by side with the 3D. I liked the sound of the KW1 but found the facing was almost too wide for my Reed which made placing the Reed really tricky (Legere Signature). Are the metal versions the same?
I only played briefly, but as far as I remember the rails seemed to be quite thick, while the tip is thinner which is in contrast to other mouthpieces. I played it with a Java, which seemed to be fine. It played really well and seemed versatile in nature, but was a bit too pricey. He also does TAM metal molded models, which are more affordable, but they seem to have mixed reviews
I’ve been sent a bunch of syos pieces several months ago. They play nice, but I can’t go with these. They look like cheap toys but cost not like toys. That’s why I’m stuck with vintage metal Florida 😂 Nothing can beat it (imho)
Hey Guys I have a question regarding hygiene. As those mouthpieces are printed in layers, there is space for bacteria to grow which you can not clean out between those layers. How do you make sure that this doesnt happen
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool I actually contacted them and asked and i was told that they dont. They use abs which is food safe, but through the process of 3d printing everything is Not really Safe Afterwards :D they told me that they never had any customer complaints and rely on that...
Great question - I know Gary Sugal’s pieces are, I spoke to him about this. Not sure about the SYOS pieces though they are also printed in ABS (Gary uses a proprietary filament for his pieces).
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool it's actually not the material that I'm concerned about, as food safe filament is easy to obtain. The surface itself though needs to be treated after printing to seal micro cavities. If indeed such a process is applied, sanding of the piece to smooth out the table, by customers, would undo this treatment.
I agree with you about sanding.Not sure what workouts there is for this. Personally although the reed doesn’t seal on the mouthpiece, it still played really well so I would be reluctant to sand the facing at all.
all of them sounds me plastic and strange bright. ebonite are nice dark, metal are nice bright, these none of above positive. but thanks for the video. i thought to ask my friend to print me mouthpiece, now i am sure i don't want it anymore. i stay by my otto link.
@@lifedream5 Not really, you just have to use a high grain water- sand paper, all it does is polishing, it is not so abrasive as to wear off the plastic.
I am sorry to say that, but I don‘t like the sound of the 3D printed mouthpieces. They have a strange zizzeling edge that annoyes me. The syos more than the others.
These are way too over priced for such a cheaply made mouthpiece. You can still purchase a Rico Metalite for $30. So, SYOS throws in a ligature, maybe they're worth $50, but not $135. I know that sounds reasonable compared to what a custom hand finished mouthpiece costs, but I'm not buying it, especially if the reed doesn't seal. One thing I've noticed with all these demos for these cooking cutter mouthpieces is they're all done by professional players. I'd like to see some amateurs give them a go.
I hear your point Steve and I was skeptical too at first. However the magic with a mouthpiece is the shape more than the manufacturing process. The benefit of SYOS pieces is you can customise to what you want. Plus I think for beginner / intermediate players These do make the altissimo and overtones easier for sure.
HI .Nigel,
Gary Sugal here
What an amazing and comprehensive review Can't say thank you enough and I'm sure Syos feels the same .
I kind of feel like the "new kid on the block" .. but as you mention I've been doing high tech CNC metal mouthpieces for over 34 years so hopefully I bring to the table and know something about making mouthpieces.
JFTR :
I started making 3d pieces in 2015 and introduced some KW models at the 2017 Namm show. While it may be an easier route to duplicate the traditionall standard VanDorens, Selmers etc.. I decided early on to create my own original designs. with concepts never done in a mouthpiece before --that was way back in 88.
All the pieces I made were from conceptual ideas I felt as a player were needed : they included a unique baffle, all in one chamber, perfect facings, tracks under the bite plate, "snow -hill-mini-tracks" inside the chamber -allowing the mouthpiece to resonate, a machined compound radius. etc.
Since you received a few "proto-types" .. I've created over 248 .stl files (12 models, 10 colors, 10 sizes) with those same conceptual ideas. Incorporated into each piece.
I also made every model available with and without a bite plate. The carbon fiber models offers the player a dynamic tonality that in all these years I've never experienced: .
There's a lot of information on my web stie : www.sugalmouthpieces.net. (site is evolving). You'll also find some outstanding musicians there who are starting to use my works.
BTW you will also find a drop down menu where you can actually customize your selected model.
FINALLY,
Yes: 3D printed mouthpieces no doubt about are the wave of the future.: and those entering the field should embrace the technology both from a design point of view and as an engineering marvel : they should also not loose sight of the fact there still and will always be a need to add old school TLC. .. that is what I do at the bench every day God Bless and All STAY SAFE :
Thanks Gary and thanks again for sending over these pieces - they were a joy to play.
Gary these are fantastic mouthpieces, and I would like to thank Nigel for showing them since I never saw any of them before. They sound fantastic and I really like their metal-like shape.
The Syos Tivon P. sounds really good, the Michael Brecker from Sugal too. The Material has a certain influence on the Sound.
I play with the Tivon Pennicot, and really enjoyed your Demo . The Gary Sugal mouthpiece M B 1 was great sounding.🙂🙂
I play a Syos on my Tenor and Bari. I have a few different types, and all have been custom made. I’m impressed that when you create your own, they actually do a very good job at nailing what you want. I’m a big fan of a warm, breathy sound for my ballads, yet, something very responsive for a bebop tune...and they made a mouthpiece that makes it easy to do so. It’s worth every penny.
Great review video, as always. It’s nice that you took the time to make this to help others who may be curious in these. 👍
Super demo Nigel. I have several different SYOS MPs and they are great. They did not seal with
my Legere reeds, but do with cane. However I did receive one that was terrible. I could have sent it back, the SYOS people are wonderful and there is a 30 day return period. But rather than
return it, I put a large piece of 600 grit wet/dry sand paper on a flat piece of glass and made the table completely smooth( avoiding the facing) .That mouthpiece seals perfectly and
plays really well. Once again I want to say how nice the people at SYOS are. I would like to
try Gary´s mouthpieces also but I live in Denmark and the customs expenses are high.
Cheers Bob. Really interesting to hear you “refaced” your SYOS. That’s a great idea. Gary was telling me today that he does some finishing on his pieces before sending to make sure there are no facing issues. Great to hear you are enjoying your SYOS pieces - they have a lot of choice.
I play a syos mouthpiece on the tenor and bari and im using the Daro models and I love them! For me personally I love metal mouthpieces but its just not all that comfortable, so sticked with a hard rubber for a bit until I saved up for a syos mouthpiece to try it out. I like how they feel personally. But also each to their own, I say go give them a try you can always return them.
Last year Gary Sugal worked with me to get an awesome mouthpiece to me by Xmas. Heck of a nice guy! We had several conversations and he went above and beyond. Happy to see him in this market!! I liked the MB1
Great to hear that Kris, Gary is a nice guy!
I got a SYOS Chad LB 7* mouthpiece lately, after playing a hard rubber OttoLink 6* for years. I think it's great, though I feel less confident with it probably since I chose this wide opening that I am not used to. I love, the sound however I really need to play it much more, especially since I sometimes squeak on the high G. Very difficult to practice with this lockdown coming on due to Covid-19, but I really like the fact that 3D printed mouthpieces offer a huge variety of mouthpieces shaped by people who actually know what they are doing, so you just need to choose whatever they shaped.
Needless to say Nigel, you always sound fantastic and it's simply pleasure listening to you. That Gary Sugal brown mouthpiece got me curious now.
I have the Chad LB and absolutely love it, I play a great deal of rock gigs,but I’ve always found that getting a sound that cuts through can also mean that the sound particularly in the upper register can be a bit thin,when I tried the CLB mouthpiece, I found that the core to the sound for me was broader,and also I like that when I am playing jazz I can lay back and sub tone and the sound is lush and expressive
Cheers Ian, it’s good to be versatile like that. I was surprised at the edginess of the Chad LB piece but I’m using Legere signature reeds - perhaps cane would be a little darker. Loads of projection though for sure so you’ll cut through on those rock gigs!
Wow! what a great video, amazing differences in sound. I would have been a little skeptical to have just been told the differences could be so big. Some of them were so bright they got the sax to sound close to a trumpet. So clearly, different mouth pieces for different music pieces. Great info! Thanks for this. For my taste though, the Sugal KW1 turbo gets the raw sexiness of Sax sound. Go Turbo!
Excellent video! Thank you for doing it Nigel! I guess 3D printed mouthpieces would be even better if they'd have a flat table and a proper facing which is easy to get with a refacing, so 3D printed + refacing could be a good combination.
I actually play a Chad LB 8 and it’s amazing, it makes me love playing my tenor so much! Just today I got a Windy City Woodwinds S+ for my alto, so I’m excited to try it. I believe they do some facing work so you can get a seal with the reed with theirs.
Hi Nigel,
I play Syos mouthpieces on both my tenor and alto and love them both.
If you want them to pass the "Pop Test" no problem, just give the facings a light rub on a sheet of wet & dry paper, and they will pop away as good as any other mouthpeice.
Hi Nigel, you would play great with anything. I am a happy owner of Syos mps for alto and baritone. I believe the real added value of 3D printing is the customization process that allows you to tailor the mp for you. If you buy a Syos custom mouthpiece, actually you buy a tailoring process. You get to the final version of the mp by subsequent attempts and you can customize anything - baffle, chamber, rollover, etc. As a baritone player, there aren’t that much mps in shops and on used market to test. The possibility to order one as per my likes and to refine it is really wonderful.
I had a SYOS and as far as I could figure out, the reason it doesn't seal is because the table isn't smooth because of the printing lines. If its smoothed out, it may seal and play better. I also noticed at the end of the shank, where it fits onto the mouthpiece, around the edge didn't look 100% with slight holes in it. I had a custom alto 1.85mm tip, medium chamber and rollover baffle and 4.5 on brightness and a 6.5 on resistance.
I play mostly on classical mouthpieces (Selmer S80 and Soloist currently) as I get the non buzzy, smooth response I am after on those and as SYOS mouthpieces are more Jazz oriented and have thinner tips and rails, they don't give me a response I am after as its a bit too buzzy. I also noticed a kind of fuzz/fizz, however you call it, in the sound and I read that its also due to the table not being smooth and when that it smoothed out, that fuzz goes away.
Saying that, the one I had was really freeblowing and played with an even tone throughout and tuning was easy. I was surprised just how lightweight it is and it also didn't vibrate in my mouth the way hard rubber or metal mouthpieces do, making it more comfortable for me to play on. Quite good mouthpieces, they just need to smooth out the table for them to play better.
The say they don't want to do that to not mess with the "perfect dimensions" of the piece, quite a mouthful considering that this 3D printing process does not exactly yield super high accuracy results. I think they are really good at marketing and drawing the crowd in, every RUclipsr I've seen test one of these sounds better on his or her regular mpc than on any of these. The Sugal MB1 sounds alright, all the others sound exactly like what they are - cheap plastic mouthpieces. Both Syos sound atrocious in this comparison, kinda harsh and way too upfront, not much complexity in the tone. Of course a great player can make them sound decent and this is not a criticism of the person playing the mouthpieces at all, he does his very best to make them sound as good as possible but there is only so much you can do with these, all just in my humble opinion of course.
Cheers for your thoughts here, no doubt these 3d pieces are cheaper than a CNC piece but it is surprising how, but using a good design they still perform well. I was sceptical but pleasantly surprised with them I have to say.
Thanks Dave, some good comments in here from others who have sanded the facing to make it flat. I haven’t tried that though.
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Probably hard to judge on a RUclips video but the fact that these don't seal is kind of a dealbreaker for me. I can get the appeal of a very freeblowing mpc that gives you easy altissimo but for my ears there's something missing in the sound.
I bought my custom syos mpc last year and I'm in love with it. Being able to talk about design with the engineer is great and also you can iterate 3 times which was really important in my case as the first prototype was not what I wanted. People are complaining about how SYOS making (supposedly) a lot of money from a printed plastic mpc but how many players can design a mpc? the real treat is to create your own mpc. But you should learn about design first (baffle, chamber, and so on).
I tried a Tivon P Syos in a sax shop and quite enjoyed it - free blowing and warm with a good response. When I looked at the tip opening it was a 9! I'm more of a 6*/7...so I do think some people might do well to size-up to get the sound and response they're used to.
I also find there's a 'foofy, fluffy, fizz' sound with plastic mouthpieces which I'm not a fan of. Good for subtoning but not if you like a more focused sound.
Cheers Alexandra, that’s interesting. SYOS made a Tivon P in size 8 for me - I wasn’t game enough to try a 9 either!
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool I tried a SYOS Tivon P mouthpiece 7* because I normally play a Otto link metal 7*, but I couldn't blow the Tivon P 7* with ease. Do you think I need to move up to an 8 or 9 tip opening, or move down to a 6 or 7 on the Tivon P?
I tried a SYOS Tivon P mouthpiece 7* because I normally play a Otto link metal 7*, but I couldn't blow the Tivon P 7* with ease. Do you think I need to move up to an 8 or 9 tip opening, or move down to a 6 or 7 on the Tivon P. SYOS suggested I move down to a 6 or 7?
@@a1saxy I would try going UP in size. I've been playing a 6* HR piece and I couldnt believe the ease with which the Tivon 9 played! If I bought one I'd probably try an 8 or 8*. It may be worth going UP in size. That was my experience and the shop owner said the same. Just my thoughts. Syos are great at helping you find the best fit I believe.
Very good review Nigel. I purchased an MB II and a KWII from Gary. The KWII ( I think a bit brighter than the KWI) is in carbon fiber. I took the KWII to a gig recently and played it all night on a straight-ahead jazz gig. It did great. Good solid sound all over the horn. Since gigs are now few and far between there's been no opportunity to road test the MBII. But in my studio it does come across with lots of power. During the purchase Gary's customer service was wonderful, he not only let me swap out mpcs but actually custom made these mpcs without his usual acrylic bite plate. For me it was more comfortable. i just but a mpc patch on and I'm good. Yes, 3D is here to stay and i anticipate more companies offering 3D.
Cheers Frank. Great to hear you like the KWII. I’d like to try that one. The MBII has really surprised me and I find myself playing it all the time!
I liked the Tivon P the best. Both Sugals sounded great as well.
I bought 2 artist SYOS in the summer sale.. less 20 % .
Love them .. finished playing my links and Reso chamber .. excellent quality .
I have a SYOS mp and now would play no other. As a relative beginner, ease of play is (almost) everything. I've done the usual basic struggle, through Yamaha 4c to a Jody Jazz HR*, with all the hooha of wetting and quickly scrapping grass reeds and all the old fashioned jazz. After buying into SYOS I could effortlessly and reliably go from low Bb to high F# from the get go. Even with a 7 tip opening which should be too big for a novice, but isn't. Coupled with a Legere reed my enjoyment of the sax has been doubled - no fiddling with cane reed, no struggling to get sound out. Playing sax is now easy, just 'plug n play'.
Awesome! That’s fantastic to hear.
Nigel, I was surprised by the MB1 Sugal.. fantastic sound! Btw, your recording is really really good, I could hear differences very well! Thanks a lot !
Cheers Paolo! I liked the MB1 too.
I play Smoky 6* on my tenors (Yanagisawa Silver Sonic and Paul Mauriat 66R raw brass). Love the mpc in both of my horns.
KW1 Turbo from Sugal, interesting. A dark rich sound in the middle to lowers with a good altissimo would be like a bonus.
I play a tenor SYOS Scott Paddock with a 2.50 Legere American Cut reed. I really like this set up! I was using Daddario Select Jazz which I liked but my SYOS is actually easier to play and more versatile which helps me play the different gigs I do from Gospel, pop, standards, to funk and rock.
You sounded great (as always) on all four. For me, I liked the Sugal MB1 Turbo the best. The SYOS Chad LB and KW1 Turbo, although sounded different, had the same impact to me. They were a tie. The SYOS Tivon P. was the one I least liked.
Cheers, interesting to compare them like this.
Great review! Thanks for sharing. What is the sax quintet tune you played? I really liked it!!
Thanks Joseph. The piece is my arrangement of “Killer Joe” - I’ll have the charts available inside Sax School in a couple days.
Hi Nigel, your videos are always great material for us who are still trying to learn the art of horn and find our place in sax world. I was just thinking which mouthpiece to get, metal one or 3D and your video helped a lot. I think I am going to go with Syos. Any recommendation for alto? They have big selection and I am not quite familiar with all the players there. However that said, keep going with your videos. I am a big fan of yours and I do believe you are helping me to become better player. Thank you for that.
I liked the Tivon P. Mouthpiece best but I believe that embouchure/oral cavity shape also affects tge overall sound a player produces.
I own a Lorenzo Ferrero tenor mouthpiece and I enjoy playing on it. My sax teacher commented on tge fuller, warmer richer sound I tend to get on it compared to a few of my others.
Tge facing was too rough for my liking. When I got it, I used some very fine emery paper to smothen it and I prefer to use cane reeds on it rather than synthetic ones.
Hi Nigel, I think that the SYOS Tivon Pennicott sounds good but I must say that the two Turbo sound good too !
Cheers Nico, lots of Tivon Pennicott mouthpiece fans here!
Your channel is amazing, not a player anymore but I enjoy your well explained topics
Thanks!
Great video thanks! I really liked your sound on all of them. was nice to hear the Sugal, I really liked its core.
I bought the Tivon P. for tenor out of curiosity. It plays really good. Not going to replace my ToneMaster and Drake, but I still am keeping it around.
Where I am most excited about the 3d printed movment is in the soprano and baritone market... really under represented.
Great point Robert. I was thinking of testing some Bari 3d pieces actually....
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool I look forward to it your reviews have been enlightening
You might have to try them on a less experienced embouchure. You seem ti be able to make both sound lovely.
Thanks for the review - SYOS Chad LB for me.
Tivon, and the Brecker 1. Definitely
Hey Nigel, thanks for comparing these 3D mouthpieces! I’m wondering, how do they compare to hard-rubber mouthpieces, such as the Vandoren Java? Those go around maybe $120 or so, actually a little less than the 3D ones in price. Would greatly appreciate your advice!
like the MB Sugar and the Timon P. Syos most, would be nice to hear it against your metal mouthpiece
Hi Nigel. Love your stuff. Thank you. I have only been playing alto saxophone for 1 year. Is it good practice to take a wee break from playing the saxophone for a few days or even a week or two ?
Cheers Pat. Great question - personally as I get older I do enjoy taking breaks away from my sax of a few days here and there. I always pay the price afterwards of having to work harder getting my chops back, but it also refreshes my musical outlook and creativity. So, I think yes, it’s a good idea (in moderation of course!)
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Thank you getting back to me so quickly. I am using a v16 vandoren 6A mouth piece and 3 vandoren v16 reed. I can play for 2 hours then I start to squeal lol. Do you think this mouthpiece and reed might be a bit to big me at this early stage. Or will it help with my development ? Thank you so much Pat
Been checking those out especially the Sugal, interesting. The tip on that seems to thick. Is it?
For me the Sugal mp's sounded better (darker) than the Syoses, with the exception of the last Syos (the Tyvon P), which also had a warm sound.
I bought an insaneintherain signature syos and after refacing it it was without question the best mouthpiece I have ever played. I sold all my other mouthpieces except my ottolink after buying it.
Cool.
What was done with the Refacing?
@@olafstenzel4361 the two things I did where sand down the table to get the piece to seal and sand a bit off the very tip to make it more rounded and the reed ended up responding a little better.
To my ear I liked the Chad LB Sound for my taste. it's got a little more edge which I like. The others do sound good and obviously great quality. I play a Runyon 10 custom made for by Santy Runyon about 6 years before he passed. I've been wanting to Try Theo Wanne's Durga.
They all sound awesome when your playing them Nigel lol,,
I will add my opinion for what it's worth: I ordered a SYOS Scott Paddock mpc and played it for a while. I could not believe the ease of altissimo and the shear volume of sound it produced. So much volume in fact, that I wanted to change it out (free of charge). I ordered the SYOS Zem Audu mpc instead. After having tried that I never looked back and immediately sold my Otto Link STM 6* and Vandoren Metal V16. I always wanted the Theo Wanne Durga 4, but that wish is quickly diminishing. Don't knock the SYOS if you haven't tried it.
Great to hear that Dolph - the altissimo is surprisingly good.
Hey Nigel good to see you again.
I hope all is well with you and your family.
Stay safe.
Thanks Samuel.
I use a Chad lb for tenor. And a Scott paccoch.
The Chad LB was too bright for my liking. The Sugals were ok, but I like the SYOS Tivon P best.
Cheers Rob.
Where do I find these models to print? I mean the deal with 3D printing is printing them yourself for about 1€
I tried the SYOS but it wasn't right for me - the company was great to deal with and I sent it back without any questions. Very good customer service. I guess I'm just a bit too traditional/conservative and the whacky colours and ligs just don't float my boat! They sounded a bit edgy and I also didn't;t like the fact that it didn't seal properly - that 'pop-test' is just second nature to me and I missed it!!! For the same sort of money, the D'Addario Jazz Select is a good bet...but I am personally having my own battle between Theo Wanne and Jody Jazz! All good fun! As usual, Nigel sounded great with this selection of mouthpieces.
Cheers Martin. Plenty of choices for you between Theo Wanne and Jody Jazz - Jody has some great pieces!
The Sugals sounded best. But a mouthpiece have to seal, it must be possible to hand face the table and rails before they ship it to the customer??
I liked the Chad lb one always have going to have to get one.
Tivon P sounds great.
Hi, first of all, i like your chanel and I‘m very happy about every new video you load up. A couple of days ago I got my Syos Custom Mouthpiece and I love it. If you are interested, I made a video of it. It’s too much to write down. Thank you for inspirating and teaching me so much.
Thanks! Great to hear that. I’d like to hear your video.
McGill Music Sax School yeah, I‘m glad to hear that. I wanted to buy one of your courses for so long and if time permits I will do it when winter is drawing in. Hope that I can learn a bit about bebop articulation and improvisation. I like your style of teaching. Here is the link to my video that you haven’t to search through all my vids. ruclips.net/video/whMo6_0nAms/видео.html
the blue syos i like best
Nice, Sugal getting in on 3D printing is very cool. Love the slotted ligature too. Also: Berg Larsen has mouthpiece specials for mouthpieces that have slight cosmetic damage; they sell them for ~$150-$175 usually and is a good alternative for a metal mouthpiece. I have one for alto, tenor, and bari, and they're all I use. You sounded the best on that MB1 I'd say.
Cheers, interesting about the Berg Larsen mouthpieces - where do you find those?
I got my own SYOS after visiting the Paris showroom. I do love it, but the large exterior barrel is not to everyone's liking. Also the ligature makes twisting the mouthpiece on the neck a little bit of a problem.
Sir Royston I play in a big band, so there’s much more ‘fiddling’ after everyone is warmed up.
I personally liked the brighter Syos Chd LB the best.
It sounded like the Syos mouthpieces responded better to me, the Chad LB was in your face, but I like the sound of the Tivon P. model. It sounded like the Sugal models played well, just not as well. His KWI metal mouthpieces are fab, not so sure these compare.
That’s interesting. I’ve never played Gary’s metal pieces but it would be interesting to put them side by side with the 3D. I liked the sound of the KW1 but found the facing was almost too wide for my Reed which made placing the Reed really tricky (Legere Signature). Are the metal versions the same?
I only played briefly, but as far as I remember the rails seemed to be quite thick, while the tip is thinner which is in contrast to other mouthpieces. I played it with a Java, which seemed to be fine. It played really well and seemed versatile in nature, but was a bit too pricey. He also does TAM metal molded models, which are more affordable, but they seem to have mixed reviews
I’ve been sent a bunch of syos pieces several months ago. They play nice, but I can’t go with these. They look like cheap toys but cost not like toys. That’s why I’m stuck with vintage metal Florida 😂 Nothing can beat it (imho)
I guess they aren’t for everyone. Good to try out new things though.
Hey Guys
I have a question regarding hygiene. As those mouthpieces are printed in layers, there is space for bacteria to grow which you can not clean out between those layers. How do you make sure that this doesnt happen
Great question Max. I think they put a coating on the mouthpiece after it is printed to stop bacteria.
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool I actually contacted them and asked and i was told that they dont. They use abs which is food safe, but through the process of 3d printing everything is Not really Safe Afterwards :D they told me that they never had any customer complaints and rely on that...
Tivon!
So are these 3d printed pieces surface finished to prevent biofilm (microorganism) buildup as is inherent with 3d printed porous surfaces?
Great question - I know Gary Sugal’s pieces are, I spoke to him about this. Not sure about the SYOS pieces though they are also printed in ABS (Gary uses a proprietary filament for his pieces).
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool it's actually not the material that I'm concerned about, as food safe filament is easy to obtain. The surface itself though needs to be treated after printing to seal micro cavities. If indeed such a process is applied, sanding of the piece to smooth out the table, by customers, would undo this treatment.
I agree with you about sanding.Not sure what workouts there is for this. Personally although the reed doesn’t seal on the mouthpiece, it still played really well so I would be reluctant to sand the facing at all.
Syos Chad LB!
Tivon & Chad LB was for me
Q.is it the mouth piece or the reed
or Saxplayer?Thanks Be Safe GodBless each1🎼🎵🎶🎷💪👍🙏🙏🙏😳💘🏹
Ha! Answer: a combo of all!
How can I come over to your school of music please
Hi Joseph, we are all online. Find out more here: www.mcgillmusic.com
Sugal mb1 turbo i liked best Nigel
all of them sounds me plastic and strange bright. ebonite are nice dark, metal are nice bright, these none of above positive. but thanks for the video. i thought to ask my friend to print me mouthpiece, now i am sure i don't want it anymore. i stay by my otto link.
You have to sand the mouthpiece table to smooth out and have the reed to seal, that is all it takes... 😉
Aha, cheers.
Not quite that simple. If you sand the table you will change the facing length and tip opening
@@lifedream5 Not really, you just have to use a high grain water- sand paper, all it does is polishing, it is not so abrasive as to wear off the plastic.
For me it’s the Tivon.
I have no problem with the seal on my 6 SYOS mouthpiece Try harder
Interesting.
💘
Tivon .P for me
Syos has more projection
Can you please help on that
If a mouthpiece fails the POP test, that is a deal breaker for me.
I am sorry to say that, but I don‘t like the sound of the 3D printed mouthpieces.
They have a strange zizzeling edge that annoyes me. The syos more than the others.
These are way too over priced for such a cheaply made mouthpiece. You can still purchase a Rico Metalite for $30. So, SYOS throws in a ligature, maybe they're worth $50, but not $135. I know that sounds reasonable compared to what a custom hand finished mouthpiece costs, but I'm not buying it, especially if the reed doesn't seal. One thing I've noticed with all these demos for these cooking cutter mouthpieces is they're all done by professional players. I'd like to see some amateurs give them a go.
I hear your point Steve and I was skeptical too at first. However the magic with a mouthpiece is the shape more than the manufacturing process. The benefit of SYOS pieces is you can customise to what you want. Plus I think for beginner / intermediate players These do make the altissimo and overtones easier for sure.
I wouldn’t play these if you gave me four of them