I try to give a cliff note version in the video to explain what is on the Kino release but the best comprehensive information on the film is in this must read blog article: nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2013/12/versions-and-sources-of-phantom-of-opera.html
If the Blackhawk cut had kept the vintage text prologue, and the full “lantern man” sequence (which they haven’t done since their original laserdisc), there would have been no need to to muck about with editing the Gaylord Carter organ score. Also, the 20FPS version does not keep the 24FPS sound reshoot footage (the opening credits, lantern man, Faust reshoots with Mary Philbin and Mary Fabian) to its proper frame rate. Ultimately, I would love to see a version include the Griggs-Moviedrome edition with Lee Erwin’s terrific organ score (original recorded for the full b&w 1929 print, with a “new” insert piece when the color Bal Masque footage was incorporated. it also featured a spoken prologue by John Griggs as the “lantern man”. I own 16mm prints of both eversions.
I first saw The Phantom of the Opera when I was around 10 and instantly loved it. It was the first silent film I saw and the second universal monsters movie I watched (the first being Dracula). Coincidentally I'm wearing a shirt of a promotional poster for the film as I type this.
4:42 As a person who is just starting to get interested in silent films and Phantom of the Opera ‘25 is my first while just knowing the movie’s disastrous preservation status, I learned that the hard way. In fact, I learned that back in 2022. I STILL don’t know which home media release is the closest to accuracy of its original 1925 release or its 1929/1930 rerelease.
Unfortunately it’s still a bit messy. I talked about it further when I reviewed the BFI UK Blu-ray release of a different restoration. Essentially if you want the best release for both versions and all the extras you need three copies: the BFI Blu-ray, Kino Blu-ray and the Milestone DVD.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderAh, that’s good to know! Fortunately, I managed to buy both the Kino Blu-ray and Milestone Editions, so all that’s left for me is to buy the BFI Blu-ray.
I agree that it was disappointing that the 20 fps version had a repeat scene in a couple of odd places. I was disappointed with that too. I also like the Gabriel Thibadeux score the best. I hope we will eventually get the definitive version on Blu-ray. 2025 will be the 100 year anniversary of the film. Maybe in 2025?
I enjoy this release, though I was sort of hoping it would be the definitive home video version. Still an excellent package, and the production design of this picture has rarely been equaled. I saw Phantom on the big screen on Halloween 2005 with live organ accompaniment. Someone also did the Lantern Man dialogue live(!) at the beginning. The unmasking scene begs to be seen in a theatre, especially from the balcony front row, as I was.
Same here. It’s got some definite pluses and drawbacks. Seeing a live screening with live score is an experience. I saw it in a historical theater with organ and choir which was incredible.
Hello- the 2 edits/cuts of the film I would love to see if they're ever found in an attic or basement etc.. is thus. the print used for previews in the L.A. area about 2 months before the film was set to open. and the print used for the World Premiere which wasn't held in New York or LA but San Francisco.
I was lucky enough to have picked up the Milestone DVD release when it came out and I agree-- the Scott MacQueen commentary track is indispensable, and of course I love the Carl Davis score. I haven't heard the Alloy score on the Kino release yet, but in general, I concur that silent film scores shouldn't be too "modern". My little conceit when watching any silent movie is to pretend I'm sitting in a theater in 1925 or whenever seeing it on its first run, and the modernized scores take you out of that mindset. Btw, I think I've read somewhere that after one apparently disastrous preview screening, Universal put together yet another version with some comedy (?) scenes added, but I don't know if it was ever released as such.
I was lucky to find the Milestone available in the library so I could see all the extras. Totally agreed on modernistic silent scores. The version with additional comedy and other subplots was previewed in one of the several preview editions discussed in the article I linked. Every bit of that was removed except for the new ending of the carriage chase.
Despite the BFI release not boasting too many essential extras, I would still recommend you to buy it. The HD 1925 restoration included on this disc looks far better than the one present on the Kino release. The piano score is modest (especially compared to the Carl Davis score for the 1929 restoration) but doesn't feel repetitive and fits the tone of the film quite well. The image quality is comparable to the Flicker Alley restoration of Hunchback if slightly sharper in some areas. The Photoplay restoration does have very pronounced color tinting in some scenes and changes aspect ratio whenever different sources are used, but the overall viewing experience (I think) is more polished and engrossing than the Blackhawk restoration, correcting some of the editing mistakes and removing the lantern man sequence. It may not be the most accurate version in terms of archival purposes but the sound and overall presentation gave me chills on my first viewing. Having watched Phantom multiple times over the years, I feel like this BluRay really brings this old film back to life.
That’s pretty much what I figured. Can’t wait to give it a go-and I really want to see the 1925 HD presentation. I think having both is still a good idea to cover all the bases along with the extras from the Milestone dvd.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Yeah not usually cheap, which is understandable given what it is. Just sheer luck you put this video out during one of the crazy BFI sales at Fopp. They are simply fantastic for beefing up on BFI, and can last a long time. I think this one has been 3 months. I have no idea how the BFI afford doing these sales. Fopp used to also do similar such sales with other lables. Gone are those days though. Anyway. Guess who needs details again lol. You know where to send me them. Cheers.
i know this is an older video but this was a very good job of explaining and sifting through the mess of releases. i have the milestone dvd from 2003 and had been thinking about buying the blu ray but wasn't sure. i'm kind of a purist with trying to get as close to the original release as possible in terms of which edits there were and since the 1925 version (the best version imo) on here got a good review from you it's seems worth it to me. the be all end all for me would be to see this in an old school theater and since the 100 yr anniversary's coming soon yah never know. nice work tho
Hot take, but the 1929 version can really only exist as a bonus feature with such a large portion of the soundtrack missing. It should not be reconstructed as a silent film and be the primary version of the film. I’d be fine with them using portions missing from the 1925 film, but there’s probably going to be a framerate issue. This Blu-ray was on my list, but I might as well hold out until 2025 to see how things go down.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I’ll probably fall back on that, but another reason I’m waiting for updates is to see if/how rediscovered footage will be inplenented
Thanks for your link the other day, I found it to be very eye raising to what I thought I knew lol agreed awaiting the Universal restro.!! great video sir!!!
Exactly! It’s hard to side with just one video version and this Kino has positives in spite of its negatives. Here’s hoping the universal restoration happens soon!
Great video we are thinking of trying some different versions of phantom in a bit. One version I’ve got that I am looking forward to is the one with Rick Wakeman doing the score. I’m sure it will be a mess videowise but as a Wakeman fan quite curious to see how it works (or doesn’t 😅)
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I try to give a cliff note version in the video to explain what is on the Kino release but the best comprehensive information on the film is in this must read blog article:
nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2013/12/versions-and-sources-of-phantom-of-opera.html
If the Blackhawk cut had kept the vintage text prologue, and the full “lantern man” sequence (which they haven’t done since their original laserdisc), there would have been no need to to muck about with editing the Gaylord Carter organ score.
Also, the 20FPS version does not keep the 24FPS sound reshoot footage (the opening credits, lantern man, Faust reshoots with Mary Philbin and Mary Fabian) to its proper frame rate.
Ultimately, I would love to see a version include the Griggs-Moviedrome edition with Lee Erwin’s terrific organ score (original recorded for the full b&w 1929 print, with a “new” insert piece when the color Bal Masque footage was incorporated. it also featured a spoken prologue by John Griggs as the “lantern man”. I own 16mm prints of both eversions.
I first saw The Phantom of the Opera when I was around 10 and instantly loved it. It was the first silent film I saw and the second universal monsters movie I watched (the first being Dracula).
Coincidentally I'm wearing a shirt of a promotional poster for the film as I type this.
4:42 As a person who is just starting to get interested in silent films and Phantom of the Opera ‘25 is my first while just knowing the movie’s disastrous preservation status, I learned that the hard way. In fact, I learned that back in 2022. I STILL don’t know which home media release is the closest to accuracy of its original 1925 release or its 1929/1930 rerelease.
Unfortunately it’s still a bit messy. I talked about it further when I reviewed the BFI UK Blu-ray release of a different restoration. Essentially if you want the best release for both versions and all the extras you need three copies: the BFI Blu-ray, Kino Blu-ray and the Milestone DVD.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderAh, that’s good to know! Fortunately, I managed to buy both the Kino Blu-ray and Milestone Editions, so all that’s left for me is to buy the BFI Blu-ray.
I agree that it was disappointing that the 20 fps version had a repeat scene in a couple of odd places. I was disappointed with that too. I also like the Gabriel Thibadeux score the best. I hope we will eventually get the definitive version on Blu-ray. 2025 will be the 100 year anniversary of the film. Maybe in 2025?
I enjoy this release, though I was sort of hoping it would be the definitive home video version. Still an excellent package, and the production design of this picture has rarely been equaled.
I saw Phantom on the big screen on Halloween 2005 with live organ accompaniment. Someone also did the Lantern Man dialogue live(!) at the beginning.
The unmasking scene begs to be seen in a theatre, especially from the balcony front row, as I was.
Same here. It’s got some definite pluses and drawbacks.
Seeing a live screening with live score is an experience. I saw it in a historical theater with organ and choir which was incredible.
Hello-
the 2 edits/cuts of the film I would love to see if they're ever found in an attic or basement etc.. is thus. the print used for previews
in the L.A. area about 2 months before the film was set to open. and the print used for the World Premiere which wasn't held in
New York or LA but San Francisco.
I was lucky enough to have picked up the Milestone DVD release when it came out and I agree-- the Scott MacQueen commentary track is indispensable, and of course I love the Carl Davis score. I haven't heard the Alloy score on the Kino release yet, but in general, I concur that silent film scores shouldn't be too "modern". My little conceit when watching any silent movie is to pretend I'm sitting in a theater in 1925 or whenever seeing it on its first run, and the modernized scores take you out of that mindset.
Btw, I think I've read somewhere that after one apparently disastrous preview screening, Universal put together yet another version with some comedy (?) scenes added, but I don't know if it was ever released as such.
I was lucky to find the Milestone available in the library so I could see all the extras.
Totally agreed on modernistic silent scores.
The version with additional comedy and other subplots was previewed in one of the several preview editions discussed in the article I linked. Every bit of that was removed except for the new ending of the carriage chase.
Thank you for the informative video on all the different versions
Despite the BFI release not boasting too many essential extras, I would still recommend you to buy it. The HD 1925 restoration included on this disc looks far better than the one present on the Kino release. The piano score is modest (especially compared to the Carl Davis score for the 1929 restoration) but doesn't feel repetitive and fits the tone of the film quite well. The image quality is comparable to the Flicker Alley restoration of Hunchback if slightly sharper in some areas. The Photoplay restoration does have very pronounced color tinting in some scenes and changes aspect ratio whenever different sources are used, but the overall viewing experience (I think) is more polished and engrossing than the Blackhawk restoration, correcting some of the editing mistakes and removing the lantern man sequence. It may not be the most accurate version in terms of archival purposes but the sound and overall presentation gave me chills on my first viewing. Having watched Phantom multiple times over the years, I feel like this BluRay really brings this old film back to life.
That’s pretty much what I figured. Can’t wait to give it a go-and I really want to see the 1925 HD presentation.
I think having both is still a good idea to cover all the bases along with the extras from the Milestone dvd.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Agreed. I currently own five different copies of the film.
What's that scary noise at 13:06
Godzilla
I'll be checking in Fopp for you if this is in the BFI sale.
Thanks I’ve been meaning to import it for ages and now digging into the Kino reminded me there’s still another version to dig through!
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Yeah not usually cheap, which is understandable given what it is. Just sheer luck you put this video out during one of the crazy BFI sales at Fopp. They are simply fantastic for beefing up on BFI, and can last a long time. I think this one has been 3 months.
I have no idea how the BFI afford doing these sales.
Fopp used to also do similar such sales with other lables. Gone are those days though.
Anyway. Guess who needs details again lol. You know where to send me them. Cheers.
Always learn several things when I watch your program...thx!
A walking film encyclopedia
i know this is an older video but this was a very good job of explaining and sifting through the mess of releases. i have the milestone dvd from 2003 and had been thinking about buying the blu ray but wasn't sure. i'm kind of a purist with trying to get as close to the original release as possible in terms of which edits there were and since the 1925 version (the best version imo) on here got a good review from you it's seems worth it to me. the be all end all for me would be to see this in an old school theater and since the 100 yr anniversary's coming soon yah never know. nice work tho
Thank you! I’ve also reviewed the BFI release and I think it’s good to have both releases.
Makes you realise how spoiled we are to have pristine 35mm scans of stuff like Cabinet of Dr. Caligari and Fritz Lang's silent movies.
Hot take, but the 1929 version can really only exist as a bonus feature with such a large portion of the soundtrack missing. It should not be reconstructed as a silent film and be the primary version of the film. I’d be fine with them using portions missing from the 1925 film, but there’s probably going to be a framerate issue.
This Blu-ray was on my list, but I might as well hold out until 2025 to see how things go down.
I’d say at least pick up the BFI release for now as it has the best technical presentation of both versions.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I’ll probably fall back on that, but another reason I’m waiting for updates is to see if/how rediscovered footage will be inplenented
Thanks for your link the other day, I found it to be very eye raising to what I thought I knew lol
agreed awaiting the Universal restro.!!
great video sir!!!
Exactly! It’s hard to side with just one video version and this Kino has positives in spite of its negatives. Here’s hoping the universal restoration happens soon!
Great video we are thinking of trying some different versions of phantom in a bit. One version I’ve got that I am looking forward to is the one with Rick Wakeman doing the score. I’m sure it will be a mess videowise but as a Wakeman fan quite curious to see how it works (or doesn’t 😅)