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I've also used hypnotic pattern during a non-combat scenario... It was a battle of the bands and my bugbear glamour bard played the Jaw Harp, specializing in trance and techno. Before the performance kicked into gear he cast it in front of the stage as a sort of anti mosh pit. Anyone who wants to just absolutely trip balls during this techno trance music performance just runs into the cube and opts to fail the save. It was a huge hit and we won the contest lol
In a breakdown like this, it would be helpful to mention that some classes or subclasses can use the spells better than others. One example: Conquest Paladin makes amazing use of Fear. Because their aura causes frightened creatures to drop to 0 speed and take damage every round. This means they can scare enemies, who drop their gear, and spend their actions dashing in-place. Completely unable to escape, but having spent all their action economy trying to.
For me it depends mostly on the character using it. A creation bard or an illusionist wizard uses Hypnotic Pattern to create a flashy distraction. A great old one warlock or draconic sorcerer would rather use Fear to frighten enemies of their patron/ancestor.
You can NOT use bonus actions while incapacitated. Anything that deprives you of the ability to take actions also deprives you of the ability to take bonus actions. Because if you look real close in the name "bonus action" you'll see that it is a type of action. A bonus one. If you can't rake actions, you can't take actions. Even bonus actions.
We have always preferred Hypnotic Pattern and for that reason you handsome gents stated. Incapacitating and then picking off the enemies one by one! However, Fear is also quite exceptional. Really both spells have their place in game so whichever is taken, it’ll be good 🤷♂️
It's difficult to choose which truly is "stronger". HP has a greater range and area of effect, but targets that make their saves can both lose an action but also ruin your plans of lining your enemies up to kill them. So, they both have a higher ceiling and a higher floor than the other, but it's different... does that make sense?? LOL
@@JNJTabletop On the other hand, feared enemies might choose (quite reasonably for the state they are in) to go get help, which in a dungeon is not something you really want. On the third hand, Spiked Growth - they will choose the safest route but it isn't hard in a dungeon for this to be the only route, if they even know about the dangerous area.
Hypnotic pattern is also good because you don't have to cast it on the ground. If you're facing taller enemies you can cast it over the heads of your allies.
The range and aoe is undeniably better for HP. To be fair, you could aim a cone in any direction too, including at a giant or something taller like that.
Hypnotic pattern is way more powerful. It disables the target entirely and it's easier to hit more people with the cube. Still, was great fun when one of my players had their character get on the wall with all the enemy archers and blast them with fear.
Oh my gosh, like lemmings running off a cliff! WOW! To play devil's advocate, HP has multiple paths to being free of the effect that are out of the caster's control and if they escape the effect, they are no worse for wear. Fear makes them run away from their items of war which, might close that gap more than many think. Maybe the ceiling is higher on HP, but saying its way more powerful is very strong wording.
I don't fully understand your comments about charm being an extra thing in hypnotic pattern beyond the incapacitation. The way I read the spell it's just there to make very clear what immunity or source of advantage works against it. Otherwise the charm is intimately tied to it's effect - if the creature gets charmed they're incapacitated, if they get shaken awake the effect ends which includes the charm no?
Which spell do you prefer? Don't forget to go subscribe to Lee (links here and in the description) and comment on his video some Irish-themed paraphernalia!
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I think this debate doesn't really have a "right" answer. I want to mess around more with using Fear in my games thought, which I guess says a lot.
I've also used hypnotic pattern during a non-combat scenario... It was a battle of the bands and my bugbear glamour bard played the Jaw Harp, specializing in trance and techno.
Before the performance kicked into gear he cast it in front of the stage as a sort of anti mosh pit. Anyone who wants to just absolutely trip balls during this techno trance music performance just runs into the cube and opts to fail the save.
It was a huge hit and we won the contest lol
Oh you let it be a persistent effect? I don’t believe that’s how it works but that sounds like a really fun moment in your game 🙂
@@JNJTabletop It was a non-cobbat encounter so it didn't really matter as much LOL
Some of the most fun moments in the game come from a little creativity like this. Well done!
In a breakdown like this, it would be helpful to mention that some classes or subclasses can use the spells better than others.
One example: Conquest Paladin makes amazing use of Fear. Because their aura causes frightened creatures to drop to 0 speed and take damage every round. This means they can scare enemies, who drop their gear, and spend their actions dashing in-place. Completely unable to escape, but having spent all their action economy trying to.
This is a discussion style video and we decided to keep things a bit more brief, but you have an excellent point about Conquest Paladins.
For me it depends mostly on the character using it. A creation bard or an illusionist wizard uses Hypnotic Pattern to create a flashy distraction. A great old one warlock or draconic sorcerer would rather use Fear to frighten enemies of their patron/ancestor.
We like to build our characters thematically too
You can NOT use bonus actions while incapacitated.
Anything that deprives you of the ability to take actions also deprives you of the ability to take bonus actions. Because if you look real close in the name "bonus action" you'll see that it is a type of action. A bonus one.
If you can't rake actions, you can't take actions. Even bonus actions.
That is correct
I cannot beLEEve that I agreed with you. I feel dirty just thinking about it!
Definite-Lee something to Fear
Running towards the enfeared enemies on the same turn you cast the spell could put you between them and whatever they dropped.
I’ve never considered fear before as a spell because I didn’t realize they would drop their weapons. That’s awesome!
I completely overlooked it too! There's so much to it that you can play with, I feel like I've missed out on a great option all these years!
Love your videos!
Glad you like them! 😀
We have always preferred Hypnotic Pattern and for that reason you handsome gents stated. Incapacitating and then picking off the enemies one by one! However, Fear is also quite exceptional. Really both spells have their place in game so whichever is taken, it’ll be good 🤷♂️
It's difficult to choose which truly is "stronger". HP has a greater range and area of effect, but targets that make their saves can both lose an action but also ruin your plans of lining your enemies up to kill them. So, they both have a higher ceiling and a higher floor than the other, but it's different... does that make sense?? LOL
@@JNJTabletop makes perfect sense to me!
@@JNJTabletop On the other hand, feared enemies might choose (quite reasonably for the state they are in) to go get help, which in a dungeon is not something you really want.
On the third hand, Spiked Growth - they will choose the safest route but it isn't hard in a dungeon for this to be the only route, if they even know about the dangerous area.
You certainly can’t account for every scenario. Running to get reinforcements would certainly ruin a stealth mission
Hypnotic pattern is also good because you don't have to cast it on the ground. If you're facing taller enemies you can cast it over the heads of your allies.
The range and aoe is undeniably better for HP. To be fair, you could aim a cone in any direction too, including at a giant or something taller like that.
I took hypnotic pattern for my bard due to the greater area of effect
Always nice to target more enemies
Hypnotic pattern is way more powerful. It disables the target entirely and it's easier to hit more people with the cube.
Still, was great fun when one of my players had their character get on the wall with all the enemy archers and blast them with fear.
Oh my gosh, like lemmings running off a cliff! WOW!
To play devil's advocate, HP has multiple paths to being free of the effect that are out of the caster's control and if they escape the effect, they are no worse for wear. Fear makes them run away from their items of war which, might close that gap more than many think. Maybe the ceiling is higher on HP, but saying its way more powerful is very strong wording.
I don't fully understand your comments about charm being an extra thing in hypnotic pattern beyond the incapacitation. The way I read the spell it's just there to make very clear what immunity or source of advantage works against it. Otherwise the charm is intimately tied to it's effect - if the creature gets charmed they're incapacitated, if they get shaken awake the effect ends which includes the charm no?
I don’t think I’m following your question. It sounds like you’ve got it right to me.