How to shoot tracked MW panoramas remained a mystery to me until I discovered your channel. Finally, a workflow that makes sense, explained clearly in full detail. You also closed the gap for me in defining a kit that promises to actually work. The final item was the Leofoto VH-10, which arrived today. From the ground up: a very stout 400-series Gitzo tripod I’ve owned for decades, an iOptron SkyGuider Pro on a Williams Optics alt-az base (the iOptron base is useless rubbish), the iOptron RA bracket, counterweight bar and counterweights (3 available, 2 from the original version SkyGuider I bought a few years ago), a MSM Z bracket (folded in V configuration), a Sunway Foto DDP-64SI indexing rotator, and finally the Leofoto VH-10. I’m ready to put theory into practice if the clouds here in the Pacific Northwest of the US ever clear.
Love your videos. just came across a few days ago and watched almost every single one of em. You are so natural in front of the camera and it is really funny and also educating so thank you very much and keep going. cheers from a astro.loving photographer from Austria :)
Great video John and honest opinion on all the gear. When it comes new gear purchases telling the wife is the most painful part 😂 Great set up with your truck as well mate 👌
Good review of your gear John. Lately, you have been buying a bit of new gear. The drone certainly adds to the video production as does the A7S3. Keep at it mate, 1000 subscribers is approaching quickly. 😀
For bags, there are two options to consider: - Shimoda Action X70 or -F-stop Sukha with XL ICU And I gotta say, I appriciate how much energy and money you are putting into those videos for us, a bunch of random strangers on youtube :D
Thanks for the suggestion, il check em out for sure, and with the investment... I Neva do anything by halves if I'm gona do something il try to make it the best I can so I'm always pushing to learn how to do video better.
John great videos just started subscribing to your channel after doing a workshop with Richard Tatti. I also use Sony cameras, I was interested to know that you didn’t mention if you use just a normal camera for Astro that is not converted, or do you only use converted cameras. Thanks
I've been through quite a few of those case relays they don't last long being used outdoors! I haven't tried it myself but came across the idea of a tent peg and a bungy strap to hold tripod to the ground
Great video,thank you so much for sharing, would it possible for the future to do a vlog on Polar Alignment when you are out in the field, many of us have the SA mount but find it a real pain in the Southern Hemisphere 🤨
Nice work John. In my experience the kit just keeps getting bigger and bigger .. .especially when adding video to the mix. Good to see you've got the A7s3. I find that if you couple that with the Sony 24mm f1.4GM you won't look back . .although your bank balance will take a considerable hit ..!!!!!
I am finding that out, it's hard to find the right balance between quality footage with lighting and being able to get a distance from the car because of all the gear. The 24 GM is on the list for sure. Can't wait to test that combo
A good video John, I'll definitely have a watch of your rig setup video. I'm like you I prefer the rucksack rather than the bespoke camera bag, I have an f stop ICU that I put inside the rucksack. The MSM I have to agree some nights it's awesome others its a pig LOL! I'm going to stick with it though as I haven't tried it out as an actual move shott move I've only tracked with it. I also carry my compass for PA but I only recently learned that you're supposed to have a compass for the Sothern Hemisphere and I bought mine north haha, there's always something hey John?
I had no idea about the compass, I hope I have the right one 🤣 You can't go wrong with the star adventurer, it's just such a good mount if you ever look to change. I have had some good suggestions about bigger bags and the f stop was recommended so il have to check them out.
The astrophotography expenditure can get pretty steep. I'm looking forward to picking up my full spectrum mod A7IV with heat sink and AA removed from Spencer Camera this Friday, upgrading from the A7RIII, got my filters from Kolari Vision. Cost me an arm and a leg, but looking forward for a WA road trip next month. I use the Fornax Lightrack II, it got great tracking but there definitely a few compromise with it, might get the Star Advent.( pity there no attachment for the QHY Polemaster though) for the A7RIII for secondary targets. Mind you having the QHY Polemaster camera & program makes for precise polar alignment without having to bend over. Compass are the way to go for finding the sth celestial pole, I have a Suuto bearing compass for work, cuts down on my pole alignment process to about 10mins.
@@johnrutterphotography I've been trying to follow ur advice, gonna get myself a 2-way head and work out the various nodal point for the various vertical angles. As my current Leofoto 720 pano kit is too top heavy for tracking more than 3min with a the 24mm GM. Still trying to find a study ballhead that will attach directly from the Fornax to the indexing rotor, not via a cramp. That will save a few cm for balance. Trying to get the lowest centre of gravity setup for long exposure. The Move shoot move Z/V gear may not be hold handle a 4kg setup.
Thank you John for giving us peak under the hood, Do you have a favorite lens you that seems to be always on your camera? I started with 16 then went to 20 and the 20 has been on my go to every since. If you are after a beast of tripod for your tracker I was looking into a INNOREL RT90C with 75mm Bowl Adapter, can get it from Amazon for under $500 I hear good things. Cheers
Love the vid…the new Sony looks awesome on vid…I’m so tempted to swap out the EOSr for Sony…but then this week I see Spenser cameras have new drop in filters for the EOSr system & r recommending the eosr….so confusing…have u ever shot with an EOSr or with someone using it v the Sony’s ???
Great Video John , very helpful . I just stared doing tracked Panorama. I have a old Canon 6D Ha with the MSM Tracker. I'm looking forward better 50mm prime to update my Canon nifty fifty 50mm f1.8. I noticed you have Samyang prime 50mm and 85mm. How to you like thoses lenses? In regards to Samyang/Rokinon lens I do have the 20mm f1.8 and 14mm f2.4 sp and they have worked very well for me so far. Would you still recommend the Samyang 50mm and 85mm primes or do you have any other suggestions for Astrophotography? Thanks again for content, it really helps out alot. Kind regards Sean
Samyang are a great budget choice, they are not great wide open at 1.4 but stopped down to 2.8 they are good. If you want absolute quality then you get what you pay for, sigma ART series are absolutely fantastic lenses and are what I'm using now
@@johnrutterphotography Thank You John for the Reply. I do have the Sigma 14-24mm f2.8 and 35MM 1.4 which are incredibly amazing. I just picked up the Rokinon 50mm f1.4 and 85mm F1.4 from B&H Photo. The price was 2 good to walk away from. For these cheap lenses I plan on using them on a star Tracker at F2.8 for Sky photos. I was thinking about the Sigma 50 and 85 but your video gave me a idea of going the economy route for now. Up here in Canad thoses Sigma lenses new are about $1000 each. The Misses would make life very difficult for me if those lenses showed up on the bank statements. Lol
@@johnrutterphotography ahh too easy, I got my last camera done by camera clinic in Melbourne, I originally only wanted h-alpha but they only offer full spectrum so that’s what I’m currently shooting with but the old 600D is at her used by date now so looking to update
Good vlog John. Question about your RII. I read alot online that people say it suffers from internal IR light leak that affects images during high iso long exposures. Ever noticed anything strange with yours?
You mentioned the possibility of a SA Mini. The only advantage to that over the first generation SA is the app control of the tracker. Size-wise, it isn't that much smaller or lighter weight than the SA, and for the cost, it just doesn't make sense - you could upgrade to the SA 2i for just a few dollars more. If you want smaller and lighter weight, check out the Omegon manual tracker, or the MSM tracker. I don't have either of those, but I did have the SA Mini, and I wouldn't suggest it as a smaller alternative to the SA. Plus, its design makes polar alignment even more cumbersome than on its (slightly) bigger brothers. On the tripod front, I completely agree on a heavier tripod for use with a tracker. I scored four heavier duty tripods for fairly cheap on Amazon - 4-5kg - I just watched for the "Used - Lake New" and "Used - Very Good" deals to come up...just damaged packaging; nothing at all wrong with the tripods. They're not top quality brands, necessarily, but they're not going to break or fail on me anytime soon. The reason I bought fourl is because my brother and I share this hobby, so if we each have two heavy duty tripods and two regular tripods, then it's that much less we have to travel with when we visit each other. Anyway, they're the video grade, with the legs that are dual rail, and a bowl head - we bought bowl head adapters that are much lighter weight than the fluid panning heads that they came with, but that was only about $20 more each. And having the bowl head allows you more flexibility with getting level, while being much sturdier than a column mount with a ball head. I just leave my equatorial mount attached to the tripod. If you haven't seen those Black Rapid tripod jackets (basically a small-medium camera bag's worth of storage right on your tripod), those fit perfectly around those wider dual rail video tripod legs. That's another nice piece of kit to have.
The SA is not changing, I'm looking at changing the MSM for the SA mini, as I'm not completely happy with the MSM as a tracker, as a timelapse rotator it's fine but if I want to use 2 trackers I think the SA mini could be a good option as I can throw a counter weight on it and it doesn't have the design flaws the MSM has, but I'm always open to other ones, just gotta find something that ticks all the boxes
Funny you say that about the move shoot move. Was thinking it was just me. I get frustrated using it and sometimes I can shoot a minute without trails at 75mm, the next day I struggle with 20s at the same focal length 😂
There is so much to like about the MSM tracker, but I too find it’s tracking rate inconsistent. It’s screw-on attachment of payload to tracker is problematic. The payload center of gravity must be clockwise of top dead center or you risk having the payload unscrew itself. But in the opposite direction there is opportunity for creep if the payload is not screwed on as tight as possible. But here there is risk of damaging the gears if too much torque is applied. I feared I did that when I heard and felt a click, on two occasions. I then assumed that damage was responsible for inconsistent tracking so purchased a replacement. I have a MSM V-plate permanently attached to the replacement MSM tracker, with any creep carefully worked out of the attachment. However, in a tracking test over 3 nights, accumulating 24 hours of tracking, rate was still inconsistent. However, if reaching the location requires a long hike, the MSM will still be my first choice, plus light weight camera body and wide angle lens.
Great video, I really hate acquiring gear but it just seems to happen. I love my MSM, but would agree it probably is not the best option for the payload you're attaching or with your distrust of tech 😉. Using mobile phone app alignment I'll get 2 min exposures on my a7R using a 35mm lens without too much fuss. I have the Sky Adventurer 2i as well, but think I'm going to sell that as it is too close to what I use the MSM for. Instead I think I'll go with either the Sky Watcher EQM35 or iOptron CEM26 for higher accuracy/payload. I'm big on the a7 series cams too. The original a7s is a gem for time-lapse, performance for dollar spent is sensational. I've also got a couple a7Rs and have often wondered about the a7R II for the resolution bump and BSI sensor. Think I went for the a7R for price (2 x a7Rs for the price of one a7R II) and also because of the Sony star eater issue. First gen a7 cams only hit the issue once you shift to BULB.
surprised when you said you just purchased the a7s3...when the a74 has same video capability but newer sensor and is better in the dark so it would be good as backup camera for a7r2 and its 33 megapixel.....just not HA modified.
Most important bit of kit, the Great Northern Tinnie.
Absolutely 💯
How to shoot tracked MW panoramas remained a mystery to me until I discovered your channel. Finally, a workflow that makes sense, explained clearly in full detail. You also closed the gap for me in defining a kit that promises to actually work. The final item was the Leofoto VH-10, which arrived today. From the ground up: a very stout 400-series Gitzo tripod I’ve owned for decades, an iOptron SkyGuider Pro on a Williams Optics alt-az base (the iOptron base is useless rubbish), the iOptron RA bracket, counterweight bar and counterweights (3 available, 2 from the original version SkyGuider I bought a few years ago), a MSM Z bracket (folded in V configuration), a Sunway Foto DDP-64SI indexing rotator, and finally the Leofoto VH-10. I’m ready to put theory into practice if the clouds here in the Pacific Northwest of the US ever clear.
Sounds like you have a great setup to get stuck into some panoramas. 👍
Another good vid mate. Good to see the gear . Also the canopy sticker collection is coming along nicely.
Cheers mate, yep soon il be onto the other door!!!
Love your videos. just came across a few days ago and watched almost every single one of em. You are so natural in front of the camera and it is really funny and also educating so thank you very much and keep going. cheers from a astro.loving photographer from Austria :)
Thanks so much for the support 👍 I definitely don't feel natural in front of the camera, much prefer being behind it 😀 but I appreciate your comments.
Great video John and honest opinion on all the gear. When it comes new gear purchases telling the wife is the most painful part 😂
Great set up with your truck as well mate 👌
Thanks Colin 👍 haha yep it's always interesting when a package arrives at home and I have to explain it 😀
Good review of your gear John. Lately, you have been buying a bit of new gear. The drone certainly adds to the video production as does the A7S3. Keep at it mate, 1000 subscribers is approaching quickly. 😀
Thanks mate 👍 video production aside it is nice to get new toys to play with. 😂 I just have to learn to use them properly
For bags, there are two options to consider:
- Shimoda Action X70
or
-F-stop Sukha with XL ICU
And I gotta say, I appriciate how much energy and money you are putting into those videos for us, a bunch of random strangers on youtube :D
Thanks for the suggestion, il check em out for sure, and with the investment... I Neva do anything by halves if I'm gona do something il try to make it the best I can so I'm always pushing to learn how to do video better.
John great videos just started subscribing to your channel after doing a workshop with Richard Tatti. I also use Sony cameras, I was interested to know that you didn’t mention if you use just a normal camera for Astro that is not converted, or do you only use converted cameras. Thanks
Thanks for subscribing, Richard is a legend! Sony are definitely great for astro.
These days I only use modified cameras for astro.
I've been through quite a few of those case relays they don't last long being used outdoors! I haven't tried it myself but came across the idea of a tent peg and a bungy strap to hold tripod to the ground
That's interesting with the relays, I've never had an issue with mine.
@@johnrutterphotography I've got four of them and only one is still working
Great video,thank you so much for sharing, would it possible for the future to do a vlog on Polar Alignment when you are out in the field, many of us have the SA mount but find it a real pain in the Southern Hemisphere 🤨
Hey Paul, definitely. It's something I want to do but am just trying to figure out the best way to film it so it makes sense.
Nice work John. In my experience the kit just keeps getting bigger and bigger .. .especially when adding video to the mix. Good to see you've got the A7s3. I find that if you couple that with the Sony 24mm f1.4GM you won't look back . .although your bank balance will take a considerable hit ..!!!!!
I am finding that out, it's hard to find the right balance between quality footage with lighting and being able to get a distance from the car because of all the gear.
The 24 GM is on the list for sure. Can't wait to test that combo
A good video John, I'll definitely have a watch of your rig setup video. I'm like you I prefer the rucksack rather than the bespoke camera bag, I have an f stop ICU that I put inside the rucksack. The MSM I have to agree some nights it's awesome others its a pig LOL! I'm going to stick with it though as I haven't tried it out as an actual move shott move I've only tracked with it. I also carry my compass for PA but I only recently learned that you're supposed to have a compass for the Sothern Hemisphere and I bought mine north haha, there's always something hey John?
I had no idea about the compass, I hope I have the right one 🤣
You can't go wrong with the star adventurer, it's just such a good mount if you ever look to change.
I have had some good suggestions about bigger bags and the f stop was recommended so il have to check them out.
The astrophotography expenditure can get pretty steep. I'm looking forward to picking up my full spectrum mod A7IV with heat sink and AA removed from Spencer Camera this Friday, upgrading from the A7RIII, got my filters from Kolari Vision. Cost me an arm and a leg, but looking forward for a WA road trip next month. I use the Fornax Lightrack II, it got great tracking but there definitely a few compromise with it, might get the Star Advent.( pity there no attachment for the QHY Polemaster though) for the A7RIII for secondary targets. Mind you having the QHY Polemaster camera & program makes for precise polar alignment without having to bend over. Compass are the way to go for finding the sth celestial pole, I have a Suuto bearing compass for work, cuts down on my pole alignment process to about 10mins.
Sound like a killer setup mate 👌 if you can't get an image with that then it's not possible 😉
@@johnrutterphotography I've been trying to follow ur advice, gonna get myself a 2-way head and work out the various nodal point for the various vertical angles. As my current Leofoto 720 pano kit is too top heavy for tracking more than 3min with a the 24mm GM.
Still trying to find a study ballhead that will attach directly from the Fornax to the indexing rotor, not via a cramp. That will save a few cm for balance. Trying to get the lowest centre of gravity setup for long exposure. The Move shoot move Z/V gear may not be hold handle a 4kg setup.
Thank you John for giving us peak under the hood, Do you have a favorite lens you that seems to be always on your camera? I started with 16 then went to 20 and the 20 has been on my go to every since. If you are after a beast of tripod for your tracker I was looking into a INNOREL RT90C with 75mm Bowl Adapter, can get it from Amazon for under $500 I hear good things. Cheers
Thanks for the tripod info 👍
As for lenses, my go to lens is the 35 1.4, it's a great compromise between resolution and time invested for large panos.
Love the vid…the new Sony looks awesome on vid…I’m so tempted to swap out the EOSr for Sony…but then this week I see Spenser cameras have new drop in filters for the EOSr system & r recommending the eosr….so confusing…have u ever shot with an EOSr or with someone using it v the Sony’s ???
Thanks mate, I haven't tried an eosr or even been out with anyone using one so I can't speak about them at all.
Great video John! Only 29 subs to go to the big 1000! Can't wait for the giveaway!!!
Yep getting close now!
Great Video John , very helpful . I just stared doing tracked Panorama. I have a old Canon 6D Ha with the MSM Tracker. I'm looking forward better 50mm prime to update my Canon nifty fifty 50mm f1.8. I noticed you have Samyang prime 50mm and 85mm. How to you like thoses lenses? In regards to Samyang/Rokinon lens I do have the 20mm f1.8 and 14mm f2.4 sp and they have worked very well for me so far.
Would you still recommend the Samyang 50mm and 85mm primes or do you have any other suggestions for Astrophotography?
Thanks again for content, it really helps out alot.
Kind regards Sean
Samyang are a great budget choice, they are not great wide open at 1.4 but stopped down to 2.8 they are good. If you want absolute quality then you get what you pay for, sigma ART series are absolutely fantastic lenses and are what I'm using now
@@johnrutterphotography Thank You John for the Reply. I do have the Sigma 14-24mm f2.8 and 35MM 1.4 which are incredibly amazing. I just picked up the Rokinon 50mm f1.4 and 85mm F1.4 from B&H Photo. The price was 2 good to walk away from. For these cheap lenses I plan on using them on a star Tracker at F2.8 for Sky photos. I was thinking about the Sigma 50 and 85 but your video gave me a idea of going the economy route for now.
Up here in Canad thoses Sigma lenses new are about $1000 each.
The Misses would make life very difficult for me if those lenses showed up on the bank statements. Lol
Yet another awesome video mate! Was it Spencer’s camera that did your h-alpha mod and have you retained your sensor cleaning ?
Cheers mate, 🍻 spensers didn't do the mod and I don't know about the sensor clean to be honest
@@johnrutterphotography ahh too easy, I got my last camera done by camera clinic in Melbourne, I originally only wanted h-alpha but they only offer full spectrum so that’s what I’m currently shooting with but the old 600D is at her used by date now so looking to update
Good vlog John. Question about your RII. I read alot online that people say it suffers from internal IR light leak that affects images during high iso long exposures. Ever noticed anything strange with yours?
Thanks mate, I have no issues at all with my R2. I'm so sick of seeing those companies say that it's not possible to modify them.
Yep my Rii is staying forever too!
Best camera ever 🤘
You mentioned the possibility of a SA Mini. The only advantage to that over the first generation SA is the app control of the tracker. Size-wise, it isn't that much smaller or lighter weight than the SA, and for the cost, it just doesn't make sense - you could upgrade to the SA 2i for just a few dollars more. If you want smaller and lighter weight, check out the Omegon manual tracker, or the MSM tracker. I don't have either of those, but I did have the SA Mini, and I wouldn't suggest it as a smaller alternative to the SA. Plus, its design makes polar alignment even more cumbersome than on its (slightly) bigger brothers.
On the tripod front, I completely agree on a heavier tripod for use with a tracker. I scored four heavier duty tripods for fairly cheap on Amazon - 4-5kg - I just watched for the "Used - Lake New" and "Used - Very Good" deals to come up...just damaged packaging; nothing at all wrong with the tripods. They're not top quality brands, necessarily, but they're not going to break or fail on me anytime soon. The reason I bought fourl is because my brother and I share this hobby, so if we each have two heavy duty tripods and two regular tripods, then it's that much less we have to travel with when we visit each other. Anyway, they're the video grade, with the legs that are dual rail, and a bowl head - we bought bowl head adapters that are much lighter weight than the fluid panning heads that they came with, but that was only about $20 more each. And having the bowl head allows you more flexibility with getting level, while being much sturdier than a column mount with a ball head. I just leave my equatorial mount attached to the tripod. If you haven't seen those Black Rapid tripod jackets (basically a small-medium camera bag's worth of storage right on your tripod), those fit perfectly around those wider dual rail video tripod legs. That's another nice piece of kit to have.
The SA is not changing, I'm looking at changing the MSM for the SA mini, as I'm not completely happy with the MSM as a tracker, as a timelapse rotator it's fine but if I want to use 2 trackers I think the SA mini could be a good option as I can throw a counter weight on it and it doesn't have the design flaws the MSM has, but I'm always open to other ones, just gotta find something that ticks all the boxes
Funny you say that about the move shoot move. Was thinking it was just me. I get frustrated using it and sometimes I can shoot a minute without trails at 75mm, the next day I struggle with 20s at the same focal length 😂
It's not just you mate, it can be very frustrating hey.
There is so much to like about the MSM tracker, but I too find it’s tracking rate inconsistent. It’s screw-on attachment of payload to tracker is problematic. The payload center of gravity must be clockwise of top dead center or you risk having the payload unscrew itself. But in the opposite direction there is opportunity for creep if the payload is not screwed on as tight as possible. But here there is risk of damaging the gears if too much torque is applied. I feared I did that when I heard and felt a click, on two occasions. I then assumed that damage was responsible for inconsistent tracking so purchased a replacement. I have a MSM V-plate permanently attached to the replacement MSM tracker, with any creep carefully worked out of the attachment. However, in a tracking test over 3 nights, accumulating 24 hours of tracking, rate was still inconsistent. However, if reaching the location requires a long hike, the MSM will still be my first choice, plus light weight camera body and wide angle lens.
Great video, I really hate acquiring gear but it just seems to happen. I love my MSM, but would agree it probably is not the best option for the payload you're attaching or with your distrust of tech 😉. Using mobile phone app alignment I'll get 2 min exposures on my a7R using a 35mm lens without too much fuss. I have the Sky Adventurer 2i as well, but think I'm going to sell that as it is too close to what I use the MSM for. Instead I think I'll go with either the Sky Watcher EQM35 or iOptron CEM26 for higher accuracy/payload. I'm big on the a7 series cams too. The original a7s is a gem for time-lapse, performance for dollar spent is sensational. I've also got a couple a7Rs and have often wondered about the a7R II for the resolution bump and BSI sensor. Think I went for the a7R for price (2 x a7Rs for the price of one a7R II) and also because of the Sony star eater issue. First gen a7 cams only hit the issue once you shift to BULB.
tripod...surui carbon fibre have some very good stable tripods...I have a travel one and a sturdy bigger one ....very good in wind
Awesome, il go check em out
surprised when you said you just purchased the a7s3...when the a74 has same video capability but newer sensor and is better in the dark so it would be good as backup camera for a7r2 and its 33 megapixel.....just not HA modified.
I did consider the a74 but for complete darkness the research I did still put the s3 on top for low light video
Hello John. What method you use for polar alignment?
I simply point my tracker roughly south, look through the scope and align with octans
what snacks are you packing! Is there room for beer :)
Big ass fridge for beer, and ur bringing the meat
Its woeful on the older sony's!
It might just be me but it seems to be getting worse
What's the minimum supply of tinnies for the night?
Haha I can't remember 😅 does that mean alot?
@@johnrutterphotography You did say "All the gear I use..."? :)
Mate your bag is never big enough. 🤣🤣🤣
It's like a garage hey... the bigger it is the more shit you buy to put in it 🤣🤣