Philosopher Richard Swinburne on Why He Joined the Orthodox Church
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2021
- In this video, Prof. Ricard Swinburne, a leading analytic philosopher of religion, discusses how he was received into the Orthodox Church. Prof. Swinburne states that his creedal beliefs have nonetheless remained quite similar throughout his life.
Full interview: • Richard Swinburne Inte...
Disclaimer: The views expressed by guests are not necessarily reflective of those of the host or Radio Laurier.
Had no clue he was Orthodox, that makes him even cooler!
No, he is not Catholic; he is Orthodox
My thoughts exactly! Being English, I assumed he was Anglican
@@psicologomiguelcisnerosOrthodox Catholic Church
@@benakihkumgeh3297 what lol
I am a huge fan of his work god bless him this wonderful man 😊😊😊. From London.
But he is cartesian dualist, it's like screaming "yeah im orthodox, but all your natural theology is sht, also your most venerated saints stories are made up fables" lol
A very English reasoning. I watch this as a Russian. It is a great example that each nation has its own good cultural specifics, and that in each case they can help one to find the unchanged Truth of Christ ☦︎
I am exploring faith. I was raised in RC but I am drawn to Orthodox. The way it is unswerving and Unashamed and is not pandering to the latest thing. Anglican just seems like a social secular organisation. RC is teetering that way...although there appears to be a war between trads and the libs. What's great about this vid is looking at it from a viewpoint of doctrine.
Pray for me please
i'm in the same place you are, i'm Trad Catholic at moment. it's not easy is it brother?
Denying the deity of Christ and incarnation is nothing new. In the patristic era, Arianism, for example, taught that Jesus was a creature. The church fathers repudiated such a teaching as heretic. There are numerous teachings and theories these days that are Arian, and Swinburne is simple being truthful to the path of the patristic fathers, which I follow also.
It is hard to visualize this person as a young man. Obviously he was at some point in his life.
Welcome to the Kingdom of Heaven dear brother, may your path to salvation be fruitful ☦️
🙏🕊️💓❤️🤗
1:31 If a Christian means a follower of Christ, then it is pertinent to ask: Do you need to believe in any particularly doctrine to follow Christ, as the various people during the time of Christ followed after Christ, simply wanting more of Him? Given that they came from all walks of life, with many different levels of knowledge and beliefs (many beliefs which were bound to have be contradictory amongst themselves).
Are you claiming Christ had no message? And so to follow Christ is to believe whatever you feel like and add the name Christ to that.
@@adolphCat No, not at all. Read again.
@@magne6049 If you don't have to believe in any particular doctrine or hold to a particular way of life, following Christ is just following yourself and therefore a meaningless justification for what you already decided to believe or the lifestyle you already choose for yourself. You might as well say, I decided to follow the Buddha and adapt a Capitalist mindset, just meaningless names, meaningless justifications of your own will.
@@adolphCat No, it would just mean that you have a relationship with The Holy Spirit first and foremost, over any particular relationship with or prime allegiance to a man-made doctrine. Man-made doctrines are fallible, even your own self-made one (as you say). So it would mean you would live in communication and relation with all doctrines, but let The Holy Spirit adjudicate between them, and convince and convict your actions. It's about following a certain other person (Jesus, as currently manifest in The Holy Spirit), in the end, not about following your own whims, nor about performing a religion.
@@magne6049 So, in other words you make up something and blame it on the Holy Spirit. I like homsexuality so I adapt a homosexual lifestyle and I blame it on the Holy Spirit. You love gambling and so you blame the Holy Spirit for your lifestyle.
When Christ founded the Church you say the Holy Spirit was unable to lead the Church into all Truth. The Church according to you is a collection of individualist anarchists you follow themselves and blame the results on the Holy Spirit. Why not just be an Atheist and blame yourself for your own decisions?
It's funny how he says he is orthodox, and yet he fights for (pretty much discredited at this point) cartesian dualism that treats animals as meat robots with no feelings, robbing the nature of it's spiritual realm... which can't be farter from the Orthodox traditional view of the nature, showed over and over again in the lives of saints. Descartes views of animals were based on his empirical experiments, the notion that animals don't "speak", etc. Orthodox saints (and Jewish before them) always had a way of communicating with the nature on a whole different level, and it was obvious there is a spiritual lining under everything. "When we are saved, our surrounding is saved also", that's why animals always flocked to the Desert Fathers or Serafin of Sarov... Not to mention quantum physics which only confirms that - consciousness is definitely way more ubiquitous than we thought, when even basic particles know if they are observed.
So holding cartesian dualism and denial of animal consciousness is imo anti-scientific and anti-orthodox.
I think your extrapolating too much from his views to their possible conclusions. Just because he believes in Cartesian dualism as a starting point doesn’t mean he came to the same conclusions as Descartes about the state of the world. For instance, many of the church fathers and doctors throughout the ages used ancient pagan principles and came (rather ingeniously) to novel Christian ideas.
From the beginning of Genesis, to the final triumph in the end, when the lamb lies down with the lion, animals did not eat animals. I'm a vegan Christian.
All of us in the West suffer from the modern and postmodern materialism way of thinking that has surrounded us since the day we were born. It’s a slow process shedding that way of thinking. And I, for one, will likely never completely shed it. So I won’t judge him.
@@notdeadyetagain1 It might have been true that before the fall being vegan was the only way to be, but science has shown time and again that grass fed grass finished muscle meat, organs, fat, bone broths and raw dairy are far superior at providing the essential nutrients than veganism can ever. So how nutrition worked before the fall we don't know exactly, but after the fall, meat, fat, organs, bones and dairy, have always provided humans with what they need, without plant toxins (and yes they do exist and are very harmful). The world is in a fallen nature, and we need to accept that until Christ creates a new heaven and a new earth. I am Orthodox as well, and my blood work from consuming a carnivorish diet, with fruits shows that I am healthy. I was also vegan for 4 years, and there is no comparison. Clean meat is always better for the human body.
@@latinboyyy305 I have true empathy for living creatures that have blood, nerves or a beating heart, sentient beings created by God. Jesus came and met people where they were and stopped the slaughter of animals for sacrifice too. He said we would do greater things than he would, and that includes veganism. I try not to be an indirect cannibal, for selective empathy is selective psychopathy. The oldest person on the planet currently is vegan. She’s from France and a life long vegetarian and 80 year vegan.
vegans have a proven 15% lower risk of dying prematurely from all causes, indicating that a vegan does help people live longer than those who adhere to vegetarian or omnivorous eating patterns.
Do Vegans Live Longer Than Non-Vegans?
If you've heard that the vegan diet promotes longevity, you may want to know more about the science behind these claims. This article tells you whether vegans live longer than non-vegans.
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Many large population studies have found that vegetarians and vegans live longer than meat eaters: According to the Loma Linda University study, vegetarians live about seven years longer and vegans about fifteen years longer than meat eaters
Why Orthodoxy and not Roman Catholicism?
He already mentioned it.
5:10
But the Orthodox believe in the assumption of Mary...
I wonder does he accepts all orthodox doctrines...
It depends what you mean. He certainly accepts the doctrines of the Orthodox Church, such as the incarnation, the trinity, the eucharist as real presence, and so forth, but he understands these doctrines in a way that does not cohere with the orthodox mainstream tradition. Swinburne thinks that all of our language about God is univocal (except when it is obviously non-literal, such as "God is the rock of ages"). Thus, to say that God is "good" means that he is a moral agent with duties and obligations; to say that God is a "person" is to say that he is an individual centre of consciousness, etc. In other words divine predicates have the same basic meaning as they do when applied to us. But this clearly conflicts with the apophaticism of the orthodox theological tradition which claims that divine predicates are at best remote analogies. God, in the orthodox tradition, is always mysterious, beyond comprehension, beyond language. Moreover, he thinks of the trinity as three individual centres of consciousness, which most theologians would say is a sophisticated form of tritheism.
@@bayreuth79 So his disagreement with Orthodoxy on this topics, do they matter or are they small differences?
@@Kenji17171 I think the differences are significant; and that is why I have always been surprised by the fact that he became Orthodox. I am also surprised that the Orthodox Church received him given his theology. Professor Brian Davies contrasts "classical theism" (embraced by Gregory of Nyssa, Maximus the Confessor, and so forth) and "theistic personalism", which is more or less a modern understanding of God in which he is understood to be a "person without a body" and he is not outside of time and space, etc. Swinburne, over against the whole orthodox tradition, is a theistic personalist. That would have been anathema to the church fathers. Also, his understanding of the trinity is for me borderline heretical: the hypostases are understand as three persons in the modern sense of that term, i.e., centres of divine consciousness. That is tritheism. Not my opinion. Read D B Hart, Sarah Coakley, etc.
I see that you like Rumi (if your picture is anything to go by); I admire his writings also.
@@bayreuth79 Yeah I am a Muslim and I like Rumi too(he is in my profile photo) What you said is interesting. Now I also wonder how church accepts him. I-as a Muslim- do reject some theological beliefs in Sunni Islam and majority of muslims find the views I hold as heretic.
@@bayreuth79 Btw I would like to talk to you you look like you are intetested with philosophy amd religion too. I remember I saw you on other youtubr videos comment sections
If God exists then everything is God. The problem with Christianity is that it teaches that we have been separated from God. The only explanation for our consciousness is that consciousness is God within us. Consciousness cannot arise from matter. Although Orthodoxy may be superior to current Anglicanism it still shares the same origins which have led to the error of believing that anything can be outside of God.
if everything is God you've eliminated distinction and thus justified knowledge claims because then distinction is illusory. false thinking
@@milkshakeplease4696 Scholastic philosophy isn’t mysticism.
@@marcmeinzer8859 Are You a Buddhist or Hindu? Actually in Eastern Orthodox Christianity there is some version of panentheism, because God is in all creatures and simultaneously He is above them. So on some sense He is both immanent and transcendent.
Ultimately God is unknowable, there is some mystery and that implies Orthodox mysticism.
There is no Orthodox philosophy, only mysticism and theology
@@hubertkorzeniak5549 I’m kind of a do-it-yourself Buddhist. I tried being a Catholic monk but quit after a year. I’ve also been an Anglican and Eastern Orthodox. In today’s world Orthodox monasteries seem to do better than either Catholic or Anglican monasteries. Anglican monks tend to be so gay that straight aspirants find it off-putting. But in any event the drop-out rate in monasticism is around 90% which to me indicates that it no longer works.
@@marcmeinzer8859That is very good to try many spiritual paths (or even "no-path" when someone is "spiritual but not religious") and I must admit that some kinds of Buddhism seems to be very adequate when we think about our personal mystical experience (I especially appreciate Zen and the "no-mind" attitude).
I also believe that the Buddha way can be a first stage of our mystical experience, whereas Eastern Orthodox Christianity can be a second, higher step, when we are conscious about God which is in us.
Buddhism alone is not aware about God as the Ultimate Reality, but it let us to discover the highest Truth which is in Logos-Christ
all tho i'm catholic i'm still happy he embraced the tradition i hope and pray he may look into Catholicism in depth
we hope and pray you look into Orthodoxy in depth too.
Roman Church a 1,000 Years was orthodox .
Yes because the Pope is so “Catholic” smh 🤦♂️ I was Roman Catholic and become orthodox. You should learn about it more.
He probably did and that's why he is orthodox
The primary authority in RC church is the church itself and in the name of the church, RC church has created many unbiblical doctrines as Mariology, pennance, purgatory etc. Besides, in the name of RC church, it even addded appocryphas into the Bible. This means that the Bible is second and sub-reality under the RC.
Another one bites the dust.
The custodian of "revealed truth." You just cannot argue with that. A claim to special knowledge through revelation has been claimed for millennia. Doctrine is the creation of groups of males.
I can't fathom this SJW nonsense
LOL
If the assertion that objective truth is a social construction of male human beings, then how can you be certain that claiming the aforementioned critique is not also just a product of your male privilege/deterministic male biology? How do you know, being that you are a man, that any truth claim you make is epistemologically certain?
@@ahorton880 You concurrently argue to a straw man and float a red herring.
@@georgegrubbs2966 Doctrine is nothing more than an established truth about the world. Your claim, which ironically is also a doctrine, not only makes certain knowledge impossible, but you’re also assuming that what you believe gives you a privileged epistemological position to make truth claims, ie, "special knowledge through revelation". Is it not the case that you believe your worldview gives you a clear way to interpret the world?
Why didn't he become a Lutheran?
lutheranism is full of dogmatism
Lol he thinks anglican church's views on sexual morality as less conservative. Imagine lutherans lol
Lutheranism teaches sola scriptura and sola fide, doctrines which he nor the historic church ever taught.
@@Kenji17171 there are still many conservative Lutherans
@@ryanoliveira4562 where
When you need god to depend on a human in order to discharge his duty, you diminish his power, Christians are blamed for the crime. Incarnation is trying to say that divine power is inadequate.
this doesn't make sense
@@milkshakeplease4696 When your god needs Jesus, it implies god wasn't adequate, needed Jesus or Trinity. This contradics the original one god theory.
If he reads Bart Ehrman's book "How Jesus Became God", he'll go back to the Canadian church 😂😂😂.
He's one of the liberal thinkers who doesn't believe in the Bible as the written word of God. Know that Christians are the ones who believe in it.
He’s getting close. Eventually he will join the one true holy apostolic church. The Catholic Church!!
Such a great philosopher, he would be an excellent witness for the Roman Church.
Greg ;he explained why he did not become a Catholic ;Papal infallibility and the 2 Marian dogmas ; Marian Dogmas were defined in 1854 and 1950 and papal infallibility in 1870. Over 1800 years after the commencement of the Church and not universally believed for over 1500 years
I doubt anyone in their minds will be in such deep satanic sect as worship of pope
@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc Some Catholics still believe the Roman Catholic Church is the church that Christ established but there are still good people in the Church
who believe other churches have the right to exist as the Catholic church has a right to exist ; freedom of worship is a fundamental human right.
If you ever hear a Catholic talking about their Church as the one and only true Church turn a deaf ear to them as they don't speak on behalf of all Catholics .
@@peterj6740 sheesh. That teaching you do is in accordance to Vatican II and Nostra Aetate
But that is against teaching of Christ
Well Catholics are on the wrong side, are misled by devil, but the argument you are going against is the wrong argument to the real Church, who must claim to be THE Church because if she doesn't - then it will be against Christ and automatically it won't be the Church, because Christ established 1 Church, with 1 teaching, 1 truth, He is THE Truth, truth is in Him, there is no truth without Him, He is the Truth
All religion leads to God.. choose what is comfortable and brings you bliss and peace... religion is a private affrair...
thats entirely false all religions have precepts that contradict one and over and if we are to suppose God is a loving God he simply wouldnt contradict at the very least his own moral standard but also that message he wishes to relay to human beings. religion has never been private but true religion involves loving that true God and following after his commandments yet your supposing that the god of islam and The God of christianity leads to the same conclusion makes God an arbitrary contradictory pattern of feelings and no fit judgeof man kind nor moral foundation. if everyone lived how you want them to we would have chaos and not peace because if the satanists god molech states that kill one newborn baby every day for rainwater and food what would you have to utter against it...... by your own words " all religion leads to God"
that's a devil claim....not all religion lead to God....but I don't think God would judge you if you tried your best to know the truth and you didn't get there 100%
@@johnno. If youre an atheist you are seeking for utopia and you will not find it here on earth. utopia is only found in heaven but you only deserve that if you are a believer in God and the hereafter... if not you are doomed here on earth with all its good and its evil and all its imperfection...
A predictable comment from someone in this modern age. Religion is not a "private affair". That is a typical outlook of someone in our indivualized, atomistic secular society. Religion by its very nature is participatory. Making religion a "private affair" = meditative practices by me and for me. The problem with that is it makes you liable to self-deception with no opportunity for exterior help or correction.
@@Joeonline26 everyone of course if you view religious people as decieved people. Einstean believe in religion and i think he is smart enough to choose what he believe is right.
This is a evil man.
Because?
if only everyone was as good as you
an*