His end quote is also my conclusion after 9 years of game dev. I'm not building games, I'm building myself. If I make a game in 5 days today, it will be better than a game that took me a year, 9 years ago. Skill and experience is crucial to start running successful games.
Thomas, Big congrats on that one, I feel you are more involved in the process of Podcasting. You´re much less interrupting the interviewed person, You´re much less stumbling into 5 minutes monologues about Marketing and how to sell. We want to see the history, the mechanical challenges and emotional journey and the marketing from the person that is interviewed. Please keep that on, after being a bit disturbed by the last few podcast I´m now back on board and look forward to your´s. Thanks for being who you are and doing what you do.
Julian Ball is amazing, the way he look at his own mistakes and strength is so satisfying. Very inspiring in all aspects. I rarely do this because i don't have much money but I made sure to buy early access before commenting. Wish you and Thomas all the best.
Great interview! I started my content creation journey with Len's Island. Unreal to hear Julians perspective as a game dev. I do really hope Len's Island really pops off!
38 min in, and i literally couldn't be more confident in indie devs understand this EVERY SINGLE THING you guys are talking about is EXACTLY!!!!! LIKE MUSIC INDUSTRY IN EARLY 2000'S TOO BIGG BUDGETS, THINK YOU NEED BIG STUDIO TO MAKE BIG GAME INDIE GAME DEV 2024 = INDIE MUSIC ARTIST / PRODUCER 2000 lock in
got laid off with 400 other people, our mantra right now is "survive till 2025", its tough right now the industry is going through a time of corporate greed and over hiring corrections due to covid, I'm hopeful there will be more companies to join from both the triple A and indie scene.
Well why don't u make a company yourself instead of hoping to join a indie company and get paid. U know they don't pay much too, that's why they r imdie😅
What an incredible interview. Especially the section about responsibilities and risks. I have two young children, but I will say they are 80% of my motivation and inspiration. Just another way of looking at it.
I don't think our health is talked about enough in this industry. Without proper maintenance it can easily devolve into one of the unhealthiest career one can be. It's the same amount of desk time with less average pay than other software developer niches. That demands a lot of desk work that is stressful whether the work is entrepreneurial or not. I hope every one remembers to prioritize themselves over their dreams! I have made that mistake, and in hindsight, I wish I didn't choose countless sleepless nights for game dev over my own health. Imagine how much more content you can make if you're alive longer!
This was pretty eye opening for me. I'm similar to Julian health wise and I've been experiencing lots of stress related heart palpatations recently. Definitely going to get my health better so I can keep making games.
@@gam1821 well if they made $4,000,000 (my mistake) and took 7 years with an average of 8~ workers that's about $70k USD per year which is good in Australia. So not bad living!
2:06 Making a small-scale game is tough! My team always struggles with this. It’s ironic because only with experience do you learn to control scope-after making a big game and realizing what’s actually big or small… so its a bit of a paradox >
It's because it's not about understanding scope it's understanding what your effort is. If you can't take a process and give it a good estimate of effort you don't have enough experience. Until you can estimate effort try to stay as small as possible, break things down into smaller pieces, and plan better. Only then can you understand scope
@@Genie3292 Thats completely fine grammar (beside the fact that it was missing a question mark I guess), unless you're just saying that *you realizing* you could get a heart attack from stressing out too much is what scared you?
this guy is a beast. "i just want to do what i want". that's literally the greatest respect to the creator and why it works. he also 100p right that zero family is the difference here. i also am like this guy, no responsibilities other than what i create. it's the meta play, leave the family and kids and then you can win. goodluck
That's the cute thing that makes me feel like home whenever I listen to his podcasts. It motivates me to work harder as a game developer. Hopefully, I'll end up in one of his episodes.
This was amazing, thank you. One thing I wish you guys touched on was how balancing relationships factors in (day to day and long term visions). I can only guess that Steph wasn’t the sort of partner to say “hey we should go out, working too much is not good”. Likewise with your partner discussing your season of higher business. Do you have any videos delving into maintaining a healthy relationship alongside the main pursuit of creative work, as well as picking the right person to go on this journey in the first place?
I seem to remember that the Early Access launch really didn't go as he hoped it would as apparently his launch date was unknowingly coinciding with a big Steam sale and he complained a lot about not having gotten any Steam visibility because his game got buried by all the other games being on sale. Remember his complaints that Steam didn't warn him beforehand about the date/sale. Wish he would have talked about that, how it went and what he learned instead of just saying the launch was successful with 30K sales in the first month.
Would love to see the creator of axis unseen on here. His story seems pretty crazy, worked on multiple fallout games for years also the friggin game from grandmas boy demonik
Very much identify with making a "bigger" game. A lot of advice on RUclips is to make something simple, and it can work for some, but I just don't find that interesting. Looking at it as a series of small systems / experiences and breaking down tasks is what helps keep me moving forward.
I think 96% of people reading comments have not noticed that and do not factor the age of the comments into weighing a purchasing decision. Also, EA reviews are counted with non-EA reviews on the store page, which is the only thing people consider.
The health reason is also the reason why I stopped making prototypes. The inability to sleep made my anxiety went thru the roof and my heart felt l ike it could burst at any moment, I experience fainting a couple times too. It's no joke. This is why Im planning to have a team one day so I will still experience being a gamedev, just in a much smaller scale, one that my heart can take..
Survival bias. There was a report that the top 20% steam indie games make about 50k in sales on average. So 80% doesn't make enough to even cover 1 year's wage, or their costs.
Yes, but to be honest, most games are just bad. Although, without a doubt a lot of good games get buried. Steam's recommendation engine is absolute garbage.
I got my first (and hopefully last) heart attack while washing my hands too, lmao. I was like 27. Moral of the story: don't wash your hands. It was also after a very long and very tiring and dehydrating sexual intercourse. So maybe the moral of the story is either to keep hydrated or do not have sex.
Sorry to hear about that. I design games too but my problem was people being slick with Bayer. Does the same thing if people give it to you without you knowing.
This talk has so many parallels with me / us on the wrong level (the bad stuff, and not the good ones). It is always sad to hear how indie devs have to sacrifice time, family, health for a project that may not get known, played or even made.
So the developers who have made millions on their games think the indie scene is going strong. lol And the rest of us down here struggling in the dirt fighting for scraps are going "Uh... Hello?"
wow this truly looks like the most generic default slop hence why mad respect for their breakthrough, very inspiring!!! update: okay so i actually got around trying it and it's actually so cool!!! i never really liked survival type of games much but i can highly recommend it
I really love indy game devs, I would love to invest with someone in some amazing indy dev team. Is there any place where indy devs looking for investors to help them partner up in the game?
He did not make 3 million with this game. The studio he founded had total cost of 3 million so far and he got it financed. He surely makes a nice amount, but not 3 mil :D
Great content, as always! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How can I transfer them to Binance?
first time watcher, wow first 8 minutes are kinda opissing me off. number 1, plz let the guy talk and let's not make this about you pal... second, why the fuck did i see 2 ads already in the first 10 min? also, never complain about how difficult it is to create things for a living, no one who also creates for a living respects it. kindly, a legend
7 years is WAY to long I’m sorry but that is a horrible time frame the world changes with tech if it takes you a decade to make one game u might as well be building a rocket like Elon musk to fly to Pluto an how is it costing you even near 100k what are u making over there 😂😂😂😂😂u can make literally a replica of any AAA titles now it’s so simple wtf you’ll be on man METH😂😂😂 you know I gotta troll an have fun sometimes here haha my old friends aren’t like us young bulls 😂😂😂learn the force 😅
Animal Well took 7 years to make and put about 6 million in Bassos account. How much have you made with your replica AAA? It takes what it takes, who cares how long and how much.
Not sure about that, statiatics are a bit more complicated than that. Basically, most games that fail are so bad that they deserve to fail, and good games fail not so often (but still do).
► Learn how to go full time indie: www.fulltimegamedev.com/opt-in-how-to-make-six-figures
His end quote is also my conclusion after 9 years of game dev. I'm not building games, I'm building myself. If I make a game in 5 days today, it will be better than a game that took me a year, 9 years ago. Skill and experience is crucial to start running successful games.
Stay healthy, all of you gamedev brothers and sisters
God bless sir!!!
Thomas, Big congrats on that one, I feel you are more involved in the process of Podcasting. You´re much less interrupting the interviewed person, You´re much less stumbling into 5 minutes monologues about Marketing and how to sell. We want to see the history, the mechanical challenges and emotional journey and the marketing from the person that is interviewed.
Please keep that on, after being a bit disturbed by the last few podcast I´m now back on board and look forward to your´s.
Thanks for being who you are and doing what you do.
One of the best interviews I´ve watched in your channel, thanks for the knowledge sharing!
Julian Ball is amazing, the way he look at his own mistakes and strength is so satisfying. Very inspiring in all aspects. I rarely do this because i don't have much money but I made sure to buy early access before commenting. Wish you and Thomas all the best.
The guy is very smart. People need to really understand what a good game is.
Many devs are very confused about that.
Im having similar health issues now too, and im working on being healthier dont take it for granted guys.
I follow Julian since his graphic design era, such a great determination and journey.. Congrats and wish you the best!
Ayy same, back when he was going by flow graphics, I still use some of his packs to this day ^-^
@@skylarmuffin8145 ahaha yes, i remember joining his retro design contest
Massive respect for these people.
This was a really good one. Thanks Thomas! Julian was awesome and you asked great questions.
Huge respect to these two, and glad Julian has begun to prioritize his health and fitness! Can't accomplish anything if you're dead
Great interview! I started my content creation journey with Len's Island. Unreal to hear Julians perspective as a game dev. I do really hope Len's Island really pops off!
Such a better podcast, actually worth listening compared to the previous ones.
38 min in, and i literally couldn't be more confident in indie devs
understand this
EVERY SINGLE THING you guys are talking about is EXACTLY!!!!! LIKE MUSIC INDUSTRY IN EARLY 2000'S
TOO BIGG BUDGETS, THINK YOU NEED BIG STUDIO TO MAKE BIG GAME
INDIE GAME DEV 2024 = INDIE MUSIC ARTIST / PRODUCER 2000
lock in
Len's Island! I remember watching this guys gamedev vlogs over the year. Game looks so much different now than before.
got laid off with 400 other people, our mantra right now is "survive till 2025", its tough right now the industry is going through a time of corporate greed and over hiring corrections due to covid, I'm hopeful there will be more companies to join from both the triple A and indie scene.
Well why don't u make a company yourself instead of hoping to join a indie company and get paid. U know they don't pay much too, that's why they r imdie😅
What an incredible interview. Especially the section about responsibilities and risks. I have two young children, but I will say they are 80% of my motivation and inspiration. Just another way of looking at it.
I don't think our health is talked about enough in this industry. Without proper maintenance it can easily devolve into one of the unhealthiest career one can be. It's the same amount of desk time with less average pay than other software developer niches. That demands a lot of desk work that is stressful whether the work is entrepreneurial or not. I hope every one remembers to prioritize themselves over their dreams! I have made that mistake, and in hindsight, I wish I didn't choose countless sleepless nights for game dev over my own health. Imagine how much more content you can make if you're alive longer!
Great video and nice to see another Aussie. Some good truths there and some hitting home (and some good reminders).
“No the game market isn’t struggling”. Thank u for some positivity! ❤
this channel catastrophes so much about this, he asks all the ppl he interviews same shit...
This was pretty eye opening for me. I'm similar to Julian health wise and I've been experiencing lots of stress related heart palpatations recently. Definitely going to get my health better so I can keep making games.
dr bergs videos and a few othgers have helped, stay safe.
heart palpitation may be high cortisol or toxicity/mineral deficiency, not necessary heard problem.
Glad to see Julian got over it! Now he is rich, successull and healthy. Way to go, my man!
Their game has made about $2 million USD with 12 workers in the studio and has taken multiple years to release, I don't think anyone is rich.
@@gameworkerty Haha oh, I felt for the clickbait. In that case glad he is successful and healthy!
@@gam1821 well if they made $4,000,000 (my mistake) and took 7 years with an average of 8~ workers that's about $70k USD per year which is good in Australia. So not bad living!
Been following Julian for a while, dudes a huge inspiration.
2:06 Making a small-scale game is tough! My team always struggles with this. It’s ironic because only with experience do you learn to control scope-after making a big game and realizing what’s actually big or small… so its a bit of a paradox >
It's because it's not about understanding scope it's understanding what your effort is. If you can't take a process and give it a good estimate of effort you don't have enough experience. Until you can estimate effort try to stay as small as possible, break things down into smaller pieces, and plan better. Only then can you understand scope
This was so helpful and inspiring. Thanks for the effort 🙏
I have been watching his dev logs for a very long time now, i think since 2018 or so. Love his work
This was a reaalllly good and deep episode... got me to thinking... both of you are a huge inspiration!
Am I the only one who gets stressed out at the thought that you can give yourself a heart attack by getting too stressed out 😅
I just got a heart attack reading that
@@Genie3292Your response to that comment is stressing me out.
@@Genie3292 Thats completely fine grammar (beside the fact that it was missing a question mark I guess), unless you're just saying that *you realizing* you could get a heart attack from stressing out too much is what scared you?
Same...
as far as literature goes you can't
this guy is a beast. "i just want to do what i want".
that's literally the greatest respect to the creator and why it works.
he also 100p right that zero family is the difference here. i also am like this guy, no responsibilities other than what i create. it's the meta play, leave the family and kids and then you can win.
goodluck
thomas never fails to make his guests feel awkward. lol
That's the cute thing that makes me feel like home whenever I listen to his podcasts. It motivates me to work harder as a game developer. Hopefully, I'll end up in one of his episodes.
Thanks for sharing this!
building a house while it's being tore down...that's an awesome analogy
This was therapeutic
Popcorn time baby
This was amazing, thank you. One thing I wish you guys touched on was how balancing relationships factors in (day to day and long term visions). I can only guess that Steph wasn’t the sort of partner to say “hey we should go out, working too much is not good”. Likewise with your partner discussing your season of higher business. Do you have any videos delving into maintaining a healthy relationship alongside the main pursuit of creative work, as well as picking the right person to go on this journey in the first place?
for a minute at 53:00 I thought Thomas was simulating the visual POV of cardiac arrhythmia, not appropriate to laugh at but I was caught off guard
Man these video be inspiring me to start my game development journey ❤❤
congrats. livin the dream.
Julian has a very interesting life philosophy. Fascinating talk!
I seem to remember that the Early Access launch really didn't go as he hoped it would as apparently his launch date was unknowingly coinciding with a big Steam sale and he complained a lot about not having gotten any Steam visibility because his game got buried by all the other games being on sale. Remember his complaints that Steam didn't warn him beforehand about the date/sale. Wish he would have talked about that, how it went and what he learned instead of just saying the launch was successful with 30K sales in the first month.
love the content Thomas :)
Would love to see the creator of axis unseen on here. His story seems pretty crazy, worked on multiple fallout games for years also the friggin game from grandmas boy demonik
Wow.. what? Interesting.
Very much identify with making a "bigger" game. A lot of advice on RUclips is to make something simple, and it can work for some, but I just don't find that interesting. Looking at it as a series of small systems / experiences and breaking down tasks is what helps keep me moving forward.
Early Access comments are marked as such. So it is easy for people to discard them once the game is released.
I think 96% of people reading comments have not noticed that and do not factor the age of the comments into weighing a purchasing decision.
Also, EA reviews are counted with non-EA reviews on the store page, which is the only thing people consider.
Just curious, what is the unique hook of Len's Island? Game looks great, but there's a lot of other resource gathering/exploration games out there.
Holy shit. Respect.
A cautionary tale about game development, keep yourself healthy along the way.
my only concern to early access is the negative reviews that could effect your game during launch.
Looks like SimFarm 1., but with a serious upgrade. 😀 👍
The health reason is also the reason why I stopped making prototypes. The inability to sleep made my anxiety went thru the roof and my heart felt l ike it could burst at any moment, I experience fainting a couple times too. It's no joke. This is why Im planning to have a team one day so I will still experience being a gamedev, just in a much smaller scale, one that my heart can take..
But prototype is "a smaller scale"?
Damn I already watched this, how is it here again? Did u watch it live? 😮
Survival bias. There was a report that the top 20% steam indie games make about 50k in sales on average. So 80% doesn't make enough to even cover 1 year's wage, or their costs.
Yes, but to be honest, most games are just bad.
Although, without a doubt a lot of good games get buried. Steam's recommendation engine is absolute garbage.
It would be nice to have chapters
I remember watching his devlogs. Its so sad to see devs go away from youtube and just making their game
Others will come and take their place.
I got my first (and hopefully last) heart attack while washing my hands too, lmao. I was like 27.
Moral of the story: don't wash your hands.
It was also after a very long and very tiring and dehydrating sexual intercourse.
So maybe the moral of the story is either to keep hydrated or do not have sex.
Keep your mental and physical health up y’all. This shit matters
Chapters for the video would be a nice addition.
Sorry to hear about that. I design games too but my problem was people being slick with Bayer. Does the same thing if people give it to you without you knowing.
45:14 this is romantic and all but we shouldn’t encourage overworking to the point of death ❤
He had others on the team so most people won't be able to replicate this approach
Resume @39:00
Good question on @17:35 reviews warp clean? No.
This talk has so many parallels with me / us on the wrong level (the bad stuff, and not the good ones). It is always sad to hear how indie devs have to sacrifice time, family, health for a project that may not get known, played or even made.
Kickstart It´s a low risk for the developer but not for the players.
So the developers who have made millions on their games think the indie scene is going strong. lol And the rest of us down here struggling in the dirt fighting for scraps are going "Uh... Hello?"
Change the way you think about it, even if it's not logical. Watch The Secret.
Thomas try to maker Pinstripe but 3D
in the morning it was still 4 million, towards the evening it was 3 million, if i rewatch tomorrow, will it be 2 million? :D
lmao I noticed that as well!
Made a mistake originally in title :) see description
Noice
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥
wow this truly looks like the most generic default slop hence why mad respect for their breakthrough, very inspiring!!! update: okay so i actually got around trying it and it's actually so cool!!! i never really liked survival type of games much but i can highly recommend it
I get such Logan Paul vibes from this thomas dude
Interesting... and how does that make you feel?
Ok.
I think you're a bad judge of people
@@PLanTonNlmao
Tf is that suppose to mean?
I really love indy game devs, I would love to invest with someone in some amazing indy dev team. Is there any place where indy devs looking for investors to help them partner up in the game?
are those real interviews or are the ones pike a recorded interview somewhere else and then put your questions on top?
Given the competition with games, I just don't see this being possible for me. It would be a Herculean effort without much pay off IMO.
what if: games were never meant to be made at the AAA level?
He did not make 3 million with this game. The studio he founded had total cost of 3 million so far and he got it financed. He surely makes a nice amount, but not 3 mil :D
👍
How did he manage to lose $1,000,000 since you made your first thumbnail?
I made a mistake in the title originally. I since fixed and left a note in the description
@@thomasbrush haha I guessed so, I was just joking / wanted to make sure that I’m not crazy 😂
Great content, as always! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How can I transfer them to Binance?
I'd be curious if he was vaccinated with, you know, science juice.
I would say definitely.
What lol
I dont get why half the comments here are borderline unhinged
first time watcher, wow first 8 minutes are kinda opissing me off. number 1, plz let the guy talk and let's not make this about you pal... second, why the fuck did i see 2 ads already in the first 10 min? also, never complain about how difficult it is to create things for a living, no one who also creates for a living respects it.
kindly, a legend
27 min and and like 12 ads later...
u fukin chump
No he didn't
sounds like a scam
ohhhh yeah IT IS
7 years is WAY to long I’m sorry but that is a horrible time frame the world changes with tech if it takes you a decade to make one game u might as well be building a rocket like Elon musk to fly to Pluto an how is it costing you even near 100k what are u making over there 😂😂😂😂😂u can make literally a replica of any AAA titles now it’s so simple wtf you’ll be on man METH😂😂😂 you know I gotta troll an have fun sometimes here haha my old friends aren’t like us young bulls 😂😂😂learn the force 😅
Animal Well took 7 years to make and put about 6 million in Bassos account. How much have you made with your replica AAA? It takes what it takes, who cares how long and how much.
@@mattp8665 🥹🥹🥹🥹😂😂😂😂😂😂🫠🫠🫠🫠idiots okay bro
Most indie games will fail.Only super special one can success.
Not sure about that, statiatics are a bit more complicated than that. Basically, most games that fail are so bad that they deserve to fail, and good games fail not so often (but still do).
no shoes though...