Hi Marty! Great video. There is one thing that I disagree on. The reason the wheels aren't charging to to 134.4V isn't because a voltage drop in the circuitry of the distribution board. It is because the charge current FETs are getting the signal to disengage at a lower voltage than they should. Keeping the charge channel open is really the only thing this mod is doing. BMS signal faults will still show on the board, but will no longer keep you from putting voltage into the packs. We all know the pluses and minuses of this. If your packs are damaged in any way or are exhibiting strange behavior, this mod should be avoided.
I dont really understand why begode as a company cannot design the charging circuitry to work the way its supposed to... seems really sloppy from their part for missing out small but still annoying details/bugs? such as the correct charging voltage for the batteries. And the consumer has to find workArounds or mods to make up for these oversights :/
@@ElectricUnicycles very nice and scientific video, specially with you drawing the electronic diagrams! May I ask are you an electronics engineer or did you use to teach on the subject?
hi @rogerEuc, I have a suggestion, not sure if you have thought about it already, since you are going to sell these mod boards. Would not it be better if the mod boards could have a toggle switch or something? from what I understand your mod board acts like a cable directly bypassing charge "protection logic" (not sure whats the correct term for that circuit). So with the switch you could toggle between the "original" functionality and the "mod", this way if you have a problem with the battery pack then you have less risk? Not sure if its a good idea though, but still wanted to discuss about the topic
"We have a lot of headroom" applies to larger packs only, where many cells share a load. Don't try riding down to 2.7v on like a Master. The Master Pro is safer at those voltages than an EX30 etc, because of the pack size.
Why have Inmotion, Leaperkim and King Song chose 126v, rather than 134v. Is 134v just hype, or truly a engineering feat the others can not obtain? Thanks
2.7v per cell. You can probably go down to 2.5v, but there is a but, a very big BUT. At the bottom end of the battery capacity curve the voltage is falling fast. The capacity represented by the drop from 3v per cell to 2.5v per cell is not going to be very much (capacity 2.5v to 3v tiny). More than that the discrepancy in voltages between cells in your pack is going to be at a maximum at the bottom of the batteries capacity. If you were unlucky enough to completely discharge any cells within your pack then the remaining cells with some charge would reverse the current in those cells as you rode the wheel. Reverse charging cells (which is what this represents) is instant death to a cell.
Hi Marty, it would be awesome if Roger was able to sell this board to Begode and/or the dealers after they made sure it was okay. I would imagine any end-user installing this board would probably void the warranty they have with their dealer if they had one, or so the dealers would likely claim. If they didn't have a warranty obviously no issue.
for the headroom: YES, you can ride fast, that alone doesnt need much watt/amps…but when you reach 3,2/3,1 Volt the voltage drop on your wheel is gigantic on heavy accelerations, and especially compared much to a full battery. So what MIGHT made you cutout are heavy accelerations and/or unexspected bumps in the road. And as soon as you reach 2,5 Volts, the BMS shuts off. just saying…
I rememeber on my master, euc world reads the voltage at 133.something. Then I use my multimeter to measure the voltage on the charge port, it reads out 134.4v. That means the app isnt really accurate.
@@shinobieuc it's not the app but the data from the wheel that the app is displaying. But in any case measuring the outputs from the batteries can show low voltage. You have a good wheel/charger combo 👍
Marty you have a wonderful workshop. I was concerned you might burn it down so I looked up the specs of the Samsung 50E cells. Yes they say in the Nominal specs that Charging Voltage is 4.2V and minimum discharge is 2.5V but they also say on their data sheet that "Cut-off Voltage of charging MUST BE UNDER 4.2V" and " Recharge voltage must be at least 0.1V lower than Max charging Voltage." If you look at voltage/capacity graph for the 50E you will see the voltage drops from 4.2 to 3.9 in the first fraction of a % of used capacity. On the low end while there is a steep drop around 3.0V there is still useful capacity to be had (As Dawn discovered).See thunderheartreviews samsung 50E capacity test. That graph indicates that as someone said it an earlier comment on your fix to get 134.4 V you probably are down to the lower voltage just accelerating out the drive!
I think the BMS takes care of charging a bit under the 4.2-volts per cell. We've been charging out EUC's forever with chargers that output the full voltage.
@@ElectricUnicycles Yeah I didn't really understand what Samsung were getting at and I also thought the instructions "Cut-off Voltage of charging must be under 4.2V" was for people the designing the BMS . After all Samsung say the cell is not for retail as it has no protection and it is designed for OEM who build packs with protection (ie BMS etc)
Should rename this video to “Learn how ignore basic battery safety to gain marginal range by wearing down and prematurely damaging your batteries with this simple hardware hack”
Hi Marty! Is this charging issue still present on the Master Pro V2? My new Pro V2 (only 100 miles on it so far) will only charge to 133.4 right when the charger light turns green or less by the time I notice and take it off the charger. I've heard different accounts saying this is fine and relatively normal or others say it is actually something to be concerned about. Just wanting to know what you think and if I need to send my wheel back to Alien Rides. It functions and rides just fine I just want to be confident there's nothing to be worried about with my battery packs. Thanks!
I can't say definitively but I see no reason why it wouldn't be. Certainly be sure that your charger is actually outputting 134.4-volts (many don't). If you are inputting 134.4-volts I would expect to be closer to 134 volts. Since you're so close I would anticipated Alienrides (or any dealer) to push back against having the wheel sent back. If you have to live with that full charge I wouldn't worry about it being a problem.
Hey Marty! So my Commander Pro only charges to 132.2v, but my EX30 charges to over 134.4v (134.7 usually). So I thought I would switch out their charge boards so that the CP would get to 134 and the EX30 would be the limited one. I swapped them just like the process shown at 15:28... but to my surprise even after changing boards, my EX30 got to 134.7v before the charger turned green, but using the SAME charger the CP still only got to 132.2v. Nothing had changed. Any idea why that is?
I would guess that the control board is not properly calibrated for reading the voltage. The only sure fire way to know what it's charging at is to disconnect a battery pack after a full charge and measure the voltage at the battery connector. E.g., my Master Pro reports the voltage is 135.3-volts after a full charge which is clearly not possible
No. Much different wheels (Master has half the battery and a smaller diameter wheel). And if would be unsafe to operate the Master below it's 104-volt tilt-back voltage.
@@ElectricUnicyclesMmm, I have to disagree with you Marty. I think the size of the tire and Watt batteries are no issues here. Master V2 and Pro are both 134.4 volts batteries setup with exactly same low voltage tolerances and current charging values. The peak current discharge might not be the same that is for sure but we are talking about charging at maximum voltage and discharging at minimum voltage here.
@@guyjemus2706 well, at a minimum your indicated speed and range will be way off because of the difference in wheel size. Begode has firmware updates for all their wheels and they don't have a generic one for all/any of their 134 volt wheels.
After riding only a small amount, burn maybe 20% of battery, is it bad for the batteries, charge back up? Basically, is it better to drain the majority before charging again?
In short answer: Yes, as fully charging to 100% is one of the lifetime eaters of the battery. Especially when its less than using 20% , i would say dont allready charge. And also important: WHEN charging to 100percent, then dont let the wheel sit with it for a long time. Best is to use the 100% charge as soon as possible…. When you dont use your wheel for longer time, best is to have it sit at 40-60percent. Note: This are all just battery “lifetime” tips…when you do otherwise, there its NO danger…
Isn't that just common knowledge for batteries? The rate these things are improving nobody is noticing that changes their wheels every two years, but the daily recommended operational range for any kind of EVs is always typically 20-80 percent. You can supposedly eek out some more cycles only charging to 70, with balancing accomplished periodically of course...whatever way that gets done with the bms. I would not charge to 100 and let it sit personally. I see people at EV (car)fast chargers charging to 100 all the time. It is painful to watch. Leasers!
Exactly. If I intend on keeping a wheel for 10-years than I would take more care in charging. Most people upgrade their wheels after a few years. I was just talking with someone who had over 20,000-miles on one of their wheels and it only has a little less range now. He charges to 100% all of the time.
And for the Distribution board: In some way i really dont get. Gotway makes their wheel safer (Finally after several complains and fires) by checking NOT to charge the wheel in case of ANY BMS error, and now people go to circumvent it? The beeper on each board is a VERY bad argument, as this only triggers one or two specific fault, there can be others that are only detected by the distribution board. So in my - uneducated - view this brings new dangers to peoples houses……just my 2 cents
Agreed, you would think Marty understands these nuances after so long in the EUC game, but here he is spreading ill informed instructions to clueless riders.
We'll never know what voltage you went under to get that buzzer to sound. If that voltage was 2.5v then some cells are damaged. Hopefully it wasn't 2.5v.
It didn't go that low. Another video (that I alluded to in this video) shows us measuring the voltage on each pack. All four battery packs were very close to the same voltage ~2.9-volts/cell. 2.5-volts would be a system voltage of 80-volts. The wheel never went below 92-volts.
Well, that is a great way to kill your battery in the long term...🫣 Potentially, you can also hurt yourself doing so, as the battery may fail during the ride. As the old song says: "dumb ways to die". Never go under 3volts per cell or you will find yourself in hospital sooner or later. Another few miles won't make a difference, don't try to be smarter than the people who actually created those limitations to the batteries, it is there for a reason. If you really need high mileage - consider changing your vehicle.
Hi Marty! Great video. There is one thing that I disagree on. The reason the wheels aren't charging to to 134.4V isn't because a voltage drop in the circuitry of the distribution board. It is because the charge current FETs are getting the signal to disengage at a lower voltage than they should. Keeping the charge channel open is really the only thing this mod is doing. BMS signal faults will still show on the board, but will no longer keep you from putting voltage into the packs. We all know the pluses and minuses of this. If your packs are damaged in any way or are exhibiting strange behavior, this mod should be avoided.
Thanks Roger. I was counting on you to correct any mistakes I was probably going to make.
❤️
I dont really understand why begode as a company cannot design the charging circuitry to work the way its supposed to... seems really sloppy from their part for missing out small but still annoying details/bugs? such as the correct charging voltage for the batteries. And the consumer has to find workArounds or mods to make up for these oversights :/
@@ElectricUnicycles very nice and scientific video, specially with you drawing the electronic diagrams! May I ask are you an electronics engineer or did you use to teach on the subject?
hi @rogerEuc, I have a suggestion, not sure if you have thought about it already, since you are going to sell these mod boards. Would not it be better if the mod boards could have a toggle switch or something? from what I understand your mod board acts like a cable directly bypassing charge "protection logic" (not sure whats the correct term for that circuit). So with the switch you could toggle between the "original" functionality and the "mod", this way if you have a problem with the battery pack then you have less risk? Not sure if its a good idea though, but still wanted to discuss about the topic
@@jimmykiang4420 I'm a retired Aerospace engineer who graduated with an electronics degree many decades ago 🙂
"We have a lot of headroom" applies to larger packs only, where many cells share a load. Don't try riding down to 2.7v on like a Master. The Master Pro is safer at those voltages than an EX30 etc, because of the pack size.
Of course. This applies to large battery pack wheels. I actually would only go below 96-volts on the Master Pro with its huge battery pack.
@@ElectricUnicycles 96V representing 3v per cell, no lower. You should be home by 100V on a 2400Wh battery really.
Thanks for sharing these tips and general EUC knowledge. Really appreciated!
Why have Inmotion, Leaperkim and King Song chose 126v, rather than 134v. Is 134v just hype, or truly a engineering feat the others can not obtain? Thanks
2.7v per cell. You can probably go down to 2.5v, but there is a but, a very big BUT. At the bottom end of the battery capacity curve the voltage is falling fast. The capacity represented by the drop from 3v per cell to 2.5v per cell is not going to be very much (capacity 2.5v to 3v tiny). More than that the discrepancy in voltages between cells in your pack is going to be at a maximum at the bottom of the batteries capacity. If you were unlucky enough to completely discharge any cells within your pack then the remaining cells with some charge would reverse the current in those cells as you rode the wheel. Reverse charging cells (which is what this represents) is instant death to a cell.
Fortunately you can only go down to 2.9-volts.
Hi Marty, it would be awesome if Roger was able to sell this board to Begode and/or the dealers after they made sure it was okay. I would imagine any end-user installing this board would probably void the warranty they have with their dealer if they had one, or so the dealers would likely claim. If they didn't have a warranty obviously no issue.
for the headroom: YES, you can ride fast, that alone doesnt need much watt/amps…but when you reach 3,2/3,1 Volt the voltage drop on your wheel is gigantic on heavy accelerations, and especially compared much to a full battery. So what MIGHT made you cutout are heavy accelerations and/or unexspected bumps in the road. And as soon as you reach 2,5 Volts, the BMS shuts off. just saying…
If anyone is riding below 96-volts the assumption is they will be riding very cautiously. This video only talks about going to 2.9-volts.
If the pack is only charging to 132V, are the cells still getting balanced? Another very informative video. 👍🏼
They aren't getting balanced with the dumb BMS that Begode uses. More sophisticated BMS's (KingSong/Inmotion) can balance the cells at lower voltages.
I rememeber on my master, euc world reads the voltage at 133.something. Then I use my multimeter to measure the voltage on the charge port, it reads out 134.4v. That means the app isnt really accurate.
@@shinobieuc it's not the app but the data from the wheel that the app is displaying. But in any case measuring the outputs from the batteries can show low voltage. You have a good wheel/charger combo 👍
What happened to the CLARK PAD RIG for the Master pro, you spent like 500 bucks for all the stuff, or is this just another unit?
It's still there. I had to remove the various parts of it to get into the control board box.
Marty you have a wonderful workshop. I was concerned you might burn it down so I looked up the specs of the Samsung 50E cells. Yes they say in the Nominal specs that Charging Voltage is 4.2V and minimum discharge is 2.5V but they also say on their data sheet that "Cut-off Voltage of charging MUST BE UNDER 4.2V" and " Recharge voltage must be at least 0.1V lower than Max charging Voltage."
If you look at voltage/capacity graph for the 50E you will see the voltage drops from 4.2 to 3.9 in the first fraction of a % of used capacity. On the low end while there is a steep drop around 3.0V there is still useful capacity to be had (As Dawn discovered).See thunderheartreviews samsung 50E capacity test. That graph indicates that as someone said it an earlier comment on your fix to get 134.4 V you probably are down to the lower voltage just accelerating out the drive!
I think the BMS takes care of charging a bit under the 4.2-volts per cell. We've been charging out EUC's forever with chargers that output the full voltage.
@@ElectricUnicycles Yeah I didn't really understand what Samsung were getting at and I also thought the instructions "Cut-off Voltage of charging must be under 4.2V" was for people the designing the BMS . After all Samsung say the cell is not for retail as it has no protection and it is designed for OEM who build packs with protection (ie BMS etc)
Begode implemented a safety mechanism - who knew???
LOL
Which wheel is the best off-road euc the v13 or the ex30
I think the EX30 would be better for off-road due to its smaller size and higher torque
Should rename this video to “Learn how ignore basic battery safety to gain marginal range by wearing down and prematurely damaging your batteries with this simple hardware hack”
I'll use something like that on my next video. Thanks 👍
@@ElectricUnicycles LOL cheers Marty
What is your favorite off-road euc
S22 & Master
Hi Marty! Is this charging issue still present on the Master Pro V2? My new Pro V2 (only 100 miles on it so far) will only charge to 133.4 right when the charger light turns green or less by the time I notice and take it off the charger. I've heard different accounts saying this is fine and relatively normal or others say it is actually something to be concerned about. Just wanting to know what you think and if I need to send my wheel back to Alien Rides. It functions and rides just fine I just want to be confident there's nothing to be worried about with my battery packs. Thanks!
I can't say definitively but I see no reason why it wouldn't be. Certainly be sure that your charger is actually outputting 134.4-volts (many don't). If you are inputting 134.4-volts I would expect to be closer to 134 volts.
Since you're so close I would anticipated Alienrides (or any dealer) to push back against having the wheel sent back.
If you have to live with that full charge I wouldn't worry about it being a problem.
Is the V13 more water proof then the EX30
Yes
My Master Pro v2 doesn’t start beeping until I get to 80 percent.
How waterproof is the V13
I would say best of class
Hey Marty! So my Commander Pro only charges to 132.2v, but my EX30 charges to over 134.4v (134.7 usually). So I thought I would switch out their charge boards so that the CP would get to 134 and the EX30 would be the limited one. I swapped them just like the process shown at 15:28... but to my surprise even after changing boards, my EX30 got to 134.7v before the charger turned green, but using the SAME charger the CP still only got to 132.2v. Nothing had changed. Any idea why that is?
I would guess that the control board is not properly calibrated for reading the voltage. The only sure fire way to know what it's charging at is to disconnect a battery pack after a full charge and measure the voltage at the battery connector.
E.g., my Master Pro reports the voltage is 135.3-volts after a full charge which is clearly not possible
@@ElectricUnicycles That makes sense, thanks for the quick reply! I'll get a voltmeter and see what's actually happening.
Hi Marty, Would the firmware update be good also for the Master V2? I would think that they both, Master V2 and Pro use the same board. thanks
No. Much different wheels (Master has half the battery and a smaller diameter wheel). And if would be unsafe to operate the Master below it's 104-volt tilt-back voltage.
@@ElectricUnicyclesMmm, I have to disagree with you Marty. I think the size of the tire and Watt batteries are no issues here. Master V2 and Pro are both 134.4 volts batteries setup with exactly same low voltage tolerances and current charging values. The peak current discharge might not be the same that is for sure but we are talking about charging at maximum voltage and discharging at minimum voltage here.
@@guyjemus2706 well, at a minimum your indicated speed and range will be way off because of the difference in wheel size.
Begode has firmware updates for all their wheels and they don't have a generic one for all/any of their 134 volt wheels.
After riding only a small amount, burn maybe 20% of battery, is it bad for the batteries, charge back up? Basically, is it better to drain the majority before charging again?
In short answer: Yes, as fully charging to 100% is one of the lifetime eaters of the battery. Especially when its less than using 20% , i would say dont allready charge. And also important: WHEN charging to 100percent, then dont let the wheel sit with it for a long time. Best is to use the 100% charge as soon as possible….
When you dont use your wheel for longer time, best is to have it sit at 40-60percent.
Note: This are all just battery “lifetime” tips…when you do otherwise, there its NO danger…
@@ullle66 Thank you!
@@ullle66 I'm kind of surprised that you are still recommending this. I always charge to 100% and don't think about the batteries.
Isn't that just common knowledge for batteries? The rate these things are improving nobody is noticing that changes their wheels every two years, but the daily recommended operational range for any kind of EVs is always typically 20-80 percent. You can supposedly eek out some more cycles only charging to 70, with balancing accomplished periodically of course...whatever way that gets done with the bms. I would not charge to 100 and let it sit personally. I see people at EV (car)fast chargers charging to 100 all the time. It is painful to watch. Leasers!
Exactly. If I intend on keeping a wheel for 10-years than I would take more care in charging. Most people upgrade their wheels after a few years. I was just talking with someone who had over 20,000-miles on one of their wheels and it only has a little less range now. He charges to 100% all of the time.
He needs to make more of his Roger chargers or people will be forced to buy Alien Rides knock off Roger Charger 😂
Hey... Alien Rides rocks. Don't be a dix.
Interesting my spanking new Inmotion v13 only charges to 98 pct
Ouch.
See my V13 video that explains why
@@ElectricUnicycles your contributions over the years are greatly appreciated.. Thx a lot
And for the Distribution board: In some way i really dont get. Gotway makes their wheel safer (Finally after several complains and fires) by checking NOT to charge the wheel in case of ANY BMS error, and now people go to circumvent it? The beeper on each board is a VERY bad argument, as this only triggers one or two specific fault, there can be others that are only detected by the distribution board.
So in my - uneducated - view this brings new dangers to peoples houses……just my 2 cents
Agreed, you would think Marty understands these nuances after so long in the EUC game, but here he is spreading ill informed instructions to clueless riders.
People can make their own choices in life. If someone thinks it's more dangerous than certainly don't do anything described in this video.
@@moonbabies I said only "Savvy riders" should consider this. I didn't say anything about clueless people 🙂
We'll never know what voltage you went under to get that buzzer to sound. If that voltage was 2.5v then some cells are damaged. Hopefully it wasn't 2.5v.
It didn't go that low. Another video (that I alluded to in this video) shows us measuring the voltage on each pack. All four battery packs were very close to the same voltage ~2.9-volts/cell. 2.5-volts would be a system voltage of 80-volts. The wheel never went below 92-volts.
To you
🍿
No chapters!!! It's a travesty.
LOL 😂
2.7 is waaaaaaay too low for safety...
2.7-volts was on the COMMANDER PRO, by accident. This video is discussing the ability (only when needed) to go down to 2.9-volts on the Master Pro.
Ah, that's where the 2.7 number was coming from, I was wondering why that popped up here twice.
Well, that is a great way to kill your battery in the long term...🫣
Potentially, you can also hurt yourself doing so, as the battery may fail during the ride.
As the old song says: "dumb ways to die".
Never go under 3volts per cell or you will find yourself in hospital sooner or later.
Another few miles won't make a difference, don't try to be smarter than the people who actually created those limitations to the batteries, it is there for a reason.
If you really need high mileage - consider changing your vehicle.
🤣🤣🤣 I really don't know what I'm doing here anyway so give me a little slack
Really need to stop using the blood of a thousand EUC riders in your ink pens👈🤣🩸🖋
I'm still waiting for a vial from you
@@ElectricUnicycles Having more than one unit reduces my chances of a cutout. 😁