Tatum isn’t among the top five players today. Top ten, ok. Best players now: Joker, Luka, SGA, Giannis, Brunson. Healthy Embiid over Tatum. Personally, I’d take Jalen Brown over Tatum.
@@charold3 Brown has never been and will never be a better player than Tatum, it's just his offensive style feels more like a No.1 than Tatum sometimes, but he cannot be the focal point of a team's offense like Tatum. Just like Kyrie can be the more explosive scorer than Lebron or Luka sometime, but he can never be a focal point of a offense like Lebron or Luka. I know Tatum is not as good as Luka and Lebron, but that's kind of similar in a less degree and not that easy to notice.
No one in their right mind would say that switching Durant and Lebron in those two finals would have given Cleveland a better chance of winning. You can’t give Durant the belt then.
I’d argue that 99 Duncan might have been the best Duncan of all - even better than 03. He never regained his full athleticism after the knee injury in 2000. But shout out to Bill for recognizing his greatness over a long period.
So, let me get this straight: You think the FIRST YEAR Tim Played in the NBA was his best? So, one of the the most cereberal/ fundamentally sound bigs ever didnt learn enough through 2 decades to improve upon his rookie year? Then you'd be wrong.
@80teg duncan was drafted in 97.....so 99 was his 2nd year. The guy was damn FIRST TEAM all nba as a ROOKIE, better put some respect on that man's name. In saying that, he was not the best player in the world from 02 to 07. I think Shaq still had it in 2003, arguably 2004 also, kobe started knocking on the door from that point onwards, I'd give it to him from 2005.
It was actually his second year in the league. And he was a first team all NBA as a rookie and second year player. Duncan came in as experienced and ready as any number one pick in history because of a personal decision he made to finish school and honor his mother. Duncan averaged 27pts and 14rbs in the finals that year. And my main point was that he was more athletic before the knee injury that prevented him from playing in the 2000s playoffs.
@@cryptidian3530that will never happen. Luka controls that team from start to finish. The team goes where luka goes. It's not built to let kyrie hero-ball them to a ship.
@@cryptidian3530 I think Kyrie could average 40 and Luka will still get MVP. The league keeps naming him 1st Team All NBA so no way they will let someone else get the most prestigious award. Also Kyrie has a stain against him. They didn't even let him be on the Olympic team this year.
I agree Ryen about Giannis, we all took a little too long to embrace Giannis just because of his play style but it became undeniable that he was top dog after awhile
Exactly.. Like if that title of “best player in the world” can be lost because you didn’t win the championship that year, you never really had it.. To me, this is a gut-feeling, eye-test title if there ever was one.. like, “whose league is it?”.. if it’s even an argument, then it’s an oligarchy, not a monarchy.. I think Kareem - Bird - Magic - MJ - Shaq - Kobe - Bron are the only definitive holders of that title in modern times.. and I’m even iffy on Shaq..
It’s a subjective argument any way you want to define who the best in the world is it will always be debatable. An MVP level player in their prime winning a title as the best player on their team I think is close enough to accurate 80% or more of history but Bill acknowledges exceptions like Curry winning MVP and championship in 2015 but in the Finals it was pretty clear LeBron was the greater player just with less help .
@@gbmbg114I mean u act like most of the top players aren’t pretty equal to each other. U can say Lebron’s career was better than KD’s but u can’t say in a 1 game or 1 series vacuum that he’s a wayyy better player than Durant. It’s pretty close. Championships and winning are the only thing that separates people in these conversations
@johnnycash8567 .. I feel you.. but that’s why my list is so short.. because at their heights, there wasn’t really a close #2.. like I can’t remember a time when I’d argue KD over Lebron.. or when it was ever a legit, “I wonder who’s better?”.. and I’m more of a KD fan than Lebron fan.. For a kinda trivial example, I lived in Miami a little before, during and after Lebron came to town.. the tone of the whole city shifted during those 4 years.. it’s not even a basketball town, plus they loved D-Wade WAY more than Lebron.. it was just different.. businesses that had nothing to do with basketball were humming more.. people were more optimistic.. there was something in the air.. and when he left, for a little bit, you could feel the void.. so much so, where I could see exactly why Cleveland hated him so much for leaving.. (again, not a Heat or Lebron fan, just an observer).. And that’s not a basketball reason or really that relevant.. but that’s my standard for “best player in the world”.. when Kobe played for the lakers and had the crown.. the rest of the NBA looked up to that guy.. and even though they’re competing and want to beat “the guy”.. there’s a part of them that knows, “I’m one of the best in the world.. but that guy is just plain better.. and he wants it more and he’s gonna do more of what it takes”.. they don’t even want to admit it, but they have to.. you can tell by how they interact and speak about each other.. I think Lebron went to Miami because he was kinda goofy, aloof and wanted the summer camp experience with his boys.. KD went to GSW, because he knew that was the only way.. I think Luka or Wemby might be next.. but the throne has been vacant since about 2020, give or take.. imho at least..
Bill literally cuts everyone off. It's so hard to watch the RUclips videos of the Simmons/Russillo stuff because Bill interjects and Ryen leans back violently, rubs his head and takes it because Bill is his boss. I'm surprised Ryen hasn't said, yo man can you not cut me off and change subjects as soon as it's my turn to speak.
@@maxso3256 it's in the name: Most Valuable Player Not most points or highest counting stats or even best player The reality is that even these last two rounds Luka's +/- is 2 points per game That's it. Dallas just wasn't any worse with just Kyrie vs just Luka all year and they still aren't. (Although they are awesome with both and terrible with neither.) Whereas Denver and OKC turned into dumpster fires without Jokic and Shai. They were simply more _VALUABLE_ to their teams.
@@michaelahurt I remember when Luka got the blame for his teams being bad without him( "because his heliocentric style of play is not good for winning team").. but Jokic and SGA get credit for it lol.. the goal posts are always shifted when it comes to Luka
How should Luka have been MVP over Jokic when both had historic seasons but Jokic proved to be the more valuable player by a metric you look at. All the playoffs have proven is that Luka has a better team around him this year than Jokic not that he’s the better player
"i dont know what else Jokic could have done in the 24 playoffs" - Bill. Idk how about not giving up a completely layup line to Anthony Edwards and company
Yeah… ur not wrong. If there’s one hole in his game it’s that he isn’t a help defender. He isn’t bad in a PNR and is good defending big man. But if ur gonna ask Jokic to be a really good help defender too ur asking him to be a literal perfect basketball player and that’s kind of a big ask
@@camhoman657 a "perfect player" would go out of his way to clean up defensive mistakes, reacting to paint threats pro-actively like peak Hakeem or KG. No one's docking Jokic for not doing that. But Jokic wasnt even an average defender in that series. He was bad
@@allank8497 KG is one of my favourite all time players but his value comes from defense. KG had an all star level offensive package but Jokic offensively is at minimum a top 10 best offensive player of all time and some cases can be made for top 5. You can’t ask Jokic to do things his body is literally not capable of doing, his impact on a team comes from the offensive end its the teams job to makeup for his weaknesses. Jokic did everything possible, and if he did anymore he would be a perfect player (if he was an all defense caliber defender) and arguably the goat lmao.
99-2002 Shaq 2003-2007 Duncan 2008-2010 Kobe 2010-2017 LeBron 2018-2019 Durant 2020-2022 Giannis The belt of best player in the world doesnt just hop from one best player in a championship team to the next and I am sorry but nobody considered Steph to be better than LeBron even in his absolute prime
Bill is high af trying to say Lebron wasn’t the best player in 2011 lol. Props on Russillo for checking him and continued to check him when he tried to sneak Durant in there in 2017/18. Also loved him checking Bill on Magic.
Nah it’s just because it’s hard to say someone the best player in the world when they meltdown in the finals. If warriors win game 5 in 2016 he’s universally considered the best in the world. They lost and was bad, lebron was great so he kept the title that’s just how it works
Russillo politely pointed out that being the best player on the championship team is not the same as being the best player in the world and he's right. It just means that there are five or six players in the league who are even capable of being the number one option on a championship team and you just have to put the right team around them.
“Michael grabbed it in 89”?? Magic won the MVP award in 87 ,89, and 90. Even though Jordan was awesome in those years, he didn’t get the MVP or make it past the Pistons. Give Magic some props for helping get the Lakers get 5 titles and Dominating the west for 8 NBA finals appearances in ten years.
I think magic was absolutely the best player in the NBA for the 87 season but I do think Michael basically began to take over the league by the 88 season. For 88 and 89 Magic still had prime James worthy and what was left of Kareem, not to mention Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, etc.
@jaygainer7955 it's true though. Kobe was to that era what Kyrie is this era. The most beautiful iso game but not a great leader.... though more so than Kryie
Kawhi being considered the best player in the world at all ever but not Curry is so crazy to me. No team in the sport would trade Curry for Kawhi at any point after 2015 until even now.
Steph won 2 MVPs, the only unanimous MVP, 73 wins, 4 titles, one with Wiggins as his second best player, and you're telling me he was never the best player in the league but you're considering DURANT?! Lmao
@@Obiamajoyisrmd they gave Kawhi the title for beating a Klay-less KD-less Warriors team. But Steph beats a fully healthy Boston team with Andrew Wiggins as his #2 and it's crickets
Yeah Steph has a strong case for 2015 & 2016 & 2021. Yes he lost to LeBron but I would penalize LeBron in 2011 for losing to the Mavs just like I wouldn't penalize Curry for losing to LeBron.
4 titles, yes. But say how it was done. He needed Kyrie and Kevin Love to miss the entire series to beat lebron for the 1st ring. Then he needed KD to beat Lebron to win the other 2. The Boston chip is legit but it was also the baby Celtics first Finals appearance.
Luka averaged 34/9/9 this year, Jokic a averaged 26/12/9. Luka should have won MVP, and if he wins the title he is absolutely 100% claiming the best player title
Giannis was the best player in the world from 2019-2022. Y’all gave Jokic MVP a year early in 2022 after changing the criteria for MVP from Giannis needing to win a championship. Giannis should’ve won 3 straight MVPs
@@whoknows20232He is a bad shooter so if thats what you mean with crewting his own shot than ok but he gets to the rim at will without needing much help so him getting to the rim is him creating his shot
How you can give Dirk the belt for '11 but not give Wade the belt for his one man title winning crusade in 2006 (in fact talking about giving Kobe the belt in that year) is absolutely mind boggling. Flash was the best player in the NBA that year and proved it. I'm fine with vacant in 11 because Bron was the best player only to mentally check out in the Finals.
I came here to make this point, thank you. No question about it. He was feared the way MJ was that year. anywhere from just above half court to the basket he could score. no other player can say that.
Yeah....but the minute KD came on the team he was obviously the better player. Curry changed the game and is an amazing system player, but he was never the best player in the league
The problem with that is, we saw Steph in the finals vs. LeBron, and Steph laid an egg. Steph wasn't even the best player on his team in the finals (was Draymond). And he came off having another middling performance in the finals the previous year, at least compared to his regular season stats. It was clear that LeBron was on a different level than Steph those two finals, so I don't know how you could give it to him when you had the direct comparison.
@@Tarrotyeah Steph had a great regular season (shouldn’t have been the first unanimous if we’re being honest Shaq and Bron were one vote away in 2 separate years and had some dumb media member vote for someone else out of spite) and should have won MVP… but Lebron was clearly the better player and ANY GM would tell you that imo
Pretty easy: Russell/Chamberlain, Kareem/Erving, M.Malone, Bird, Magic, MJ, then it starts to bounce around from Duncan/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe/LeBron. Now we have Jokic/Freak/Luka all of whom could still go on a 3-5yr run where they get MVPs and rings.
I think kawhi definitely has it for 2019. I understand not wanting to give it to someone for one year, but what's different about Kawhi's story in this is that barring injuries he could have had the belt for multiple years. He would have taken the belt in 2017, the year of the Zaza injury and kept it until 2021 when Giannis took it.
Only here will u see “analysts” ignore the fact that Steph Curry CHANGED the way the game is played and not call him the best player at least one of the yrs in his storied career. Im not even a Warriors fan but its just asinine to not acknowledge the truth
@@MikeBeltMikeBelt so u think other teams dont hunt Luka or Lebron or whoever?? i literally dont understand what you’re saying. Steph is hunted yet he still puts up his numbers and has how many rings??
Duncans 99 run is so underrated. 29 and 11 vs prime Shaq, young Kobe, and still good Glen Rice without a teammate giving him more than 14. And it was a sweep! Also how is Kobe best in 08 after losing in the Finals and possible in 11 after being swept by the same squad that took Bron out of consideration? 🤔 Never change William 😂😂
@@PutXi_Whipped who cares about mvps lol. Shaq would have won three straight years but was injured too much in the regular season. Just clown stuff. Steve Nash won two mvps. Who cares
@@ownthelibsShaq wasn’t the best player on his own team when it mattered in three straight WCF from 2000-2002. That was 21-23 year old Kobe. You’re exposing yourself as a casual that just looks at Finals stats.
Curry was the best player in the league from 2014-2018. The only player I saw playing at a Jordan level was mid-way through the 73 win season, when the Warriors beat OKC on the road and Curry hit the shot. That was Jordan-esque… other than that the belt has been up for grabs for a long time now.
A month ago people were like "Jokic is the best player in the world and it's not even close!" Jokic loses a game 7 and now it's "Is Luka the best player in the world?!?" Meanwhile, a healthy Giannis is still the best two way player on the planet.
In the 1980 season (60-22), the Lakers were 1st of 22 in ORTG & 9th of 22 in DRTG; scoring the 2nd most PPG while giving up the 11th most. This team had the best record in the West and was 1 game behind the #1 Overall Seed in the Celtics (61-21). Kareem also averaged 25/11/5/1/3 in 41 MPG on 64% TS--60% FG (10/17 per game) & 77% FT (4/6 per game)--with Magic as the only All-Star⭐️ help that season 🤫 Taking home the MVP that year Kareem was ranked 6th in PPG, 7th in RPG, T-21st in APG, T-18th in SPG, *1st in BPG* , 3rd in BLK%, T-18th in TREB%, 14th in DREB%, 2nd in EFG%, 3rd in TS%, 3rd in MPG, *1st in OWS* , 3rd in DWS, *1st in WS* , 6th in ORTG, T-5th in DRTG *Magic 1980* ⤵️ 18/8/7/2/1 on 60% TS (7/12 FG & 5/6 FT per g) *************************************** 1980 Finals⤵️ KAJ➡️33/14/3/1/5 in 41 MPG 15/27 FGpergame (55%) 4/5 FTpergame (81%) 33/14/5/0/6 (14/21 FG; 5/5 FT) 38/14/3/2/5 (L-19/31 FG; 0/2 FT) 33/14/3/0/4 (13/30 FG; 7/9 FT) 23/11/4/1/4 (L-11/27 FG; 1/1 FT) 40/15/1/0/4 (16/24 FG; 8/9 FT) *For that series alone he ranked…* MP: T-7th (-53 Magic, -51 Nixon, -49 Wilkes, -41 Dr.J, -18 Cheeks, -13 Hollins) *PTS: 1st (+14 Dr. J)* *TREB: 1st (+1 Magic)* OREB: 3rd (-9 Wilkes, -1 Magic) *DREB: 1st (+2 Magic)* AST: 8th (-37 Hollins, -36 Magic, -26 Nixon, -24 Cheeks, -14 Dr. J, -4 Cooper, -3 Wilkes & Bibby) STL: T-6th (-13 Magic, -12 Cheeks, -10 Nixon, -9 Hollins & Dr. J, -4 Cooper/Dawkins/B. Jones, -2 Wilkes & Chones) *BLK: 1st (+7 C. Jones)* *FGM: 1st (+14 Dr. J)* *FGA: 1st (+11 Wilkes)* FTM: 3rd (-14 Magic, -13 Dr. J) FTA: T-3rd (-22 Dr. J, -14 Magic) *************************************** Magic➡️22/11/9/3/0 in 43 MPG 8/14 FGpergame (57%) 6/7 FTper game (88%) 16/9/10/3/0 (8/12 FG; 0/0 FT) 13/8/11/2/0 (L-5/8 FG; 3/3 FT) 16/11/5/2/0 (6/12 FG; 4/6 FT) 28/9/9/3/1 (L-10/14 FG; 8/10 FT) 14/15/10/3/0 w/ 10 TOV (4/13 FG; 6/7 FT) 42/15/7/3/1 (14/23 FG; 14/14 FT) alongside Wilkes’ 37/10/2/1/0 effort in 42 minutes going 16/30 FG & 5/5 FT *************************************** Magic’s Games 1-5 1980 Finals➡️ 17/10/9/3/0 on 62% TS% *************************************** 1980 Finals; Game 5. 2-2 Series. Kareem goes for 40/15/1/0/4 on 72% TS% including his last 14 in the 4th on one leg. Magic would end up going for 14/15/10/3/0 with 10 TOV on 44% TS%.
Steph unanimous MVP year is hard to deny. He revolutionized the game and made Klay/Daymond hall of fame players. KD was close the Warriors year to LeBron but that's a toss up to me.
I can deny because he needed the finals to legitimise it, and Lebron proved he was still a monster, I just don't recall him ever taking that from Lebron. Kd was definitely Lebrons Kryptonite in those 2017 to 2018 finals but because the team was so stacked I just don't think he was ever given the no.1 spot truly there.
The same year him and his team had the biggest choke in the history of north american sports and LeBron had the crowning glory of his career? Yeah you're delusional.
2006-2009 Dwayne Wade Won a Championship with Older Shaq (2006) 2008. Wade critical in the 2008 Olympic redeem team . 🏆💪 Dwayne Flash Wade shared it with Lebron and KOBE Kobe even said it
Why not start by honoring Bill Russell?? He was clearly # 1 on that Celtics team during those 11 titles... maybe Wilt takes it a year or two here or there.
It’s Lebron ‘11 like, I get he had a really terrible finals but he was the best player in the league, that’s why we all killed him for it because I don’t think anyone would’ve argued Dirk was better than Lebron even after those finals
Agreed. I love Dirk and the Mavs but Dirk wasn't the best player in the league. He had an amazing playoff run. Lebron was Cleary the best player in the league during that time. No logical argument against Lebron.
Agree, although after the finals he was on shaky ground and there was conversation of "wait are we sure Dirks not the best in the world?" Just because of how great of a play-offs he had, but about 5 minutes into 2012 we remembered it was still lebron. As Ryan says, u don't snatch the belt for winning the title.
Lebron was the best player during that cavs warriors series, no doubt. But Curry in 22 was the best player in the league hands down. Even though jokic won MVP, curry was unbelievable. They finished 3rd in the west and He got through the nuggets , mavs and Celtics to win the title. I think you gotta give it to him in 22.
Kobe at the very least was the best individual player from 06 to 09. I think he was the best overall player during that period as well. From 08-10 he was the best player on 3 Lakers finals teams and back to back championship teams in 09 and 10. Plus he was the best or at least the most important player on the 08 Summer Olympics gold medal redeem team, the same year, he won his only league MVP. 08-10 belonged to Kobe. Also, WTH is Ryan talking about?? Dirk ABSOLUTELY deserved the best player alive title in 2011. Mans literally went through Kobe, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, LeBron, Wade and Bosh to get to his LONE NBA championship. And was able to do that with his second best teammate being Jason Terry. I don’t care if it’s just for one year, that one year belonged to Nowitzki!
@@Sheckyize LeBron was more athletically gifted and dominant than Kobe. Kobe’s skill set, ability to shoot, ability to defend one on one, ability to close, was still superior to LeBron IMO. Plus, LeBron had the benefit of playing in the eastern conference, that has almost always been an inferior conference to the West where Kobe played his whole career.
There’s no year where Durant was the best in the league, not even half a year. It was either LeBron or Steph in the 2010s until Giannis and Jokic took over in the 2020s.
Yeah this was too long for me, shaq still had it in 2002, 2003. 2004 I think it was nobody, but Kobe was being mentioned in that year but arguably never took it with the 2004 nba finals stink up.
Bill's Basketball Championship Belt 69-70 Vacant 71 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 72 Wilt Chamberlain 73-76ish Kareem Abdul Jabbar 76 Julius Erving 77 Bill Walton 78-79 Vacant 80 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 81-83 Moses Malone 84-87 Larry Bird 88-89ish Magic Johnson 89-93 Michael Jordan 94-95 Hakeem Olajuwon 96-98 Michael Jordan 99 Vacant 2000-2002ish Shaq 02-07 Tim Duncan 08-10 Kobe Bryant 11 vacant 12-18is LeBron James 18-19(?) Kawhi Leonard 19(?) Kevin Durant 20 Vacant 21-22ish Giannis Antetokounmpo 22-current Nikola Jokic
@@danhantheman He’s undoubtedly the best shooter of all time. Statistically by so far - how is that overrated. Throw in clutch moments, beating Lebron again and again, first ever unanimous MVP, and 4 trophies? Hater
Curry was --- by far -- the best player alive in 2016. Better than Tim Duncan or Kobe EVER were. Numbers back it up. Late season, Harden tripped sweaty teammate Omar Asik who slid from mid court to the 3 point line. Pivoting to defend, Curry hurt his knee. Curry's MJ level confidence of the 73 win season didn't return. So Harden won a title --- for Lebron. . Slander to say Lebron was better in 2016. BS discriminates against short players. Peak AI wasn't better than Duncan & Kobe?
LMFAO No, he wasn’t. Go check what Duncan did in 03 then come back to me And AI is even more hilarious if you think any GM or coach at any moment in time was saying they’d take AI over Shaq or Duncan
Yeah I had to pause the video when he said duncan 2002 to 2007, way too long. Tbh I think Shaq still had it 2003 and 2004. Kobe from 2005-2008, Lebron entered in 2009.
Shaq was the finals mvp in 2002... and Kobe was the second best player to shaq up until 2004 And then Kobe didn't make it past the first round until 2008
Bill, you need to feature Doug Moe or Frank Layden . Even an 80’s NBA ref would be great. We need their stories and a few more from past era before they vanish.
Jokic is having better playoffs statisticlly than Luka...It's not his fault that all of his teammates underperformed or that he doesn't have second all star on his team.. Give Joker consistent 2nd star like Donaovan Michel for example and he got 3 rings by now... Joker still holds the belt!
Can Joker ever be held accountable on this podcast objectively? No matter how good James Harden was on offense, you would still see the lowlights of his defense but Joker gets preferential treatment. You're saying I don't know what else he could have done in these playoffs. Bro. Three and a half of the games they lost in part because of him either getting slowed down and or because he couldn't guard a parked car under the rim.
What else could Jokic have done in the playoffs?? Maybe I’m watching a different game, but he’s up 20 in the 3rd quarter! Lol he bricked like 8 threes down the stretch.. rolled out the red carpet to the hoop on defense.. biggest choke job I can remember.. orchestrated 70 and 80pt games in the same series.. blown out by 30 and 50! Says “I’m cool with it after”.. what am I missing..
Bill had to add a lot of "vacant"s when he realized LeBron would have the belt longer than Jordan. I still think Jordan's prime is higher than Lebron's, but that is hilarious
This was like a great History lecture. You should do more of these on different topics, I think AB is a good starting point for your lessons. BB would be a little to far back.
@@ElBrillante4during the 3 peat the lakers had a better record when Kobe didn't play. When Shaq was injured and Kobe played the lakers were .500. Kobe was an accessory who sometimes ball hogged it too much but he wasn't the engine of the team. He wasn't the one getting tripled teamed. I'm not saying they were better without him but he was replaceable. Shaq is the one who the offense went through.
@@ownthelibsit’s almost as if they were accustomed to playing in the triangle dumping it down to the big all of the time. Kobe closed games, Shaq failed with penny, Eddie Jones, Nick Van ex. Kobe needed to develop to get Shaq titles
@@DapperSZN no Shaq just entered his prime age. It's really not complicated. 27 is usually prime age. Sometimes it's 26 or 28. It makes sense that Shaq was at his best from 27-29. Stop trying to complicate things. It's annoying. Hate amateurs
I would go from the start of 86-87 season as Bird said about MJ "That was god disguised as Michael Jordan" in the 1986 playoffs. SO: 86-93: JORDAN 93-95: THE DREAM 96-98: JORDAN 99: MAILMAN 99-02: SHAQ 02-05: DUNCAN 05-11: KOBE 11-16: LEBRON 16-19: DURANT 19-NOW: GIANNIS (Yes, defense matters and both Luka or Jokic doesn't play it at all beside some "stops"),
You all are underrating Steph. His shooting range and ability to move on the court makes other players on his team better. He doesn't just get assists, he makes it eaiser for his teammates to get and make shots. Part of the reason why you rank LeBron so high is his passing which is supposed to make the others on his team play better. But Steph does that and you don't recognize it. Put Lebron on those Warriors teams where Steph won the championships and see how many he gets. Probably two.
@@ownthelibs by who’s criteria? It wasn’t even as good as 00 or 01 shaq, so is he rocking 3 of the 6 best seasons in history now? If you want to say shaq was the best player in the 2002 season, I’d say fair. The 6th best season in nba history? You’re the one on crack pal. It might not even be the 6th best season of the 00s.
He was never the best player. He outplayed LeBron in 2016 but LeBron was still the best player. LeBron was the best player from 08 or 09 until arguably 21. Although I think KD in 17-19 is probably correct.
Steph and LeBron’s runs overlap at times. 2016 Steph was the best player in the world. Probably 2022 as well. But to leave Steph out entirely (especially with his unanimous MVP year) would be wrong.
That vote thing is WAY overblown. Had the voting been public record for previous winners, you would have seen a whole lot more unanimous winners in fear of voters being outted for spite or homerism. Never bring that BS "fact" up again.
Cmon Bill. Lebron had it for at least a decade since he drug Boobie Gibson and Anderson Varajao to the Finals in 2007 until like 2019. There was no debate on who was the best. Then Giannis, then Joker. Now maybe Luka.
Yeah but he did it in the east. Who was his biggest competition? The last year or so of the pistons good team? It’s the East, if your team is decent you’re making a playoff run.
@@tyfahlmanyeah and they beat LeBron on multiple occasions from 2008-2011 until he joined formed a super team to compete with them and by the time they played each other in 2012 they were an old Celtics team. LeBron is great but Kobe was the best player in the world from 2008-2010 because when you go to 3 straight finals as the best player on that team and win 2 of them while winning an MVP in one of those years, you are the best player in the world.
Because the East was (and is) a total joke compared to the West. Having one incredible player and some solid role players was all that was needed to walk through the playoffs.
Funny thing is, the Mavs probably would have had more trouble with the Nuggies than they did the T-Wolves. Just a simple matchup problem in both series. Wolves tried to play Luka straight up and did a decent job (safe game 5 the games were all super close), but the Nuggets probably could have taken at least 3 games on them, if not beat them outright.
Must be a couple fan boys, not a discussion. 2015 - doesn't win finals mvp because of the great defensive job iggy did on lebron. 2016 , incredible 73 win team, unanimous mvp, looking ready to take the belt, then blows the finals in a stink up, lebron still proved he's the greatest. 2017 - calls durant to come beat lebron in a cowardly move to stack the deck, disappeared from the conversation ever since.
You’re knocking Steph for losing in the finals? That was by way of Adam Silver to help LeBron’s legacy. Did you not see LeBron’s finals meltdown in 2011? And LeBron formed that Miami super team cause he couldn’t beat the KG Celtics, so don’t talk about Durant going to the Warriors.
There is a correlation between winning the title and being the best player but not causal It takes a great team to win a championship and doesn’t automatically mean the best player on that team is the best in the world
Think Kobe has it from 06-12 when Lebron dominates OKC and Kobe drags Nash & Dwight through that 13 season after that finals was a passing of the torch in stages of career.
It was like 06-08. By 2009 LeBron was _a lot_ better. Kobe had a better team, much better teammates, better coach, but LeBron was winning 60+ games and might not have had another top 30 player on his team.
@@michaelahurtno way. Remember that Lebron was in the weaker conference and Kobe won MVP in 08 and made it to 3 straight finals plus led the redeem team im between all that.
@@michaelahurt fair, just from a completeness aspect Lebron still had holes in his game that were magnifying reasons in postseason losses. Definitely wasn’t surrounded with the same support system but there were answers for him until the Heatles formed. Kobe was a much better scorer at lower usage and opponents feared him in a different way up until 2011 when he was swept and then the wheels started falling off shortly after. Also, Kobe was able to provide all defensive 1st team on the other end and was a lot tougher to beat in isolation whereas Lebron impacted defense more on the help side with blocks and being in the passing lanes.
@@dchappell2020 Yeah the holes were his teammates sucked. Lol. I think your memory is failing you saying Kobe was a much better scorer at lower usage. See below: ------ Kobe LeBron FGA 20.6 | 20.9 ..... 19.9 | 20.1 PPG 28.3 | 26.8 ..... 28.4 | 29.7 TSr +1.7 | +0.2 .... +4.7 | +6.1 TS is relative to league average so Kobe's 54.5% in 2010 was only 0.2 above the league average of 53.3% Kobe certainly had a greater reservoir of moves to pull from but by 2009 he'd lost enough athletically that he had to overrely on shit making. LeBron did have holes in his game still and he conversely over-relied on his athleticism -- not that anyone could do anything about it -- but in 2009 and 2010 it really wasn't about him. (Try convincing me of that in 2010. Lol) And because they played the same teams we can just compare the results: 2009 vs Orlando Bron -- 38-8-8 on 59% TS Kobe - 32-6-7 on 52% TS Difference: Orlando had a 113 off rtg vs Cleveland and 100 vs LA 2010 vs Boston Bron -- 27-9-7 on 56% TS Kobe - 29-8-4 on 53% TS Difference: Offensive rebounding. 32% for LA and 21% for Cleveland LeBron did quit in that series though. Of course the only reason we don't remember Kobe shooting his team out of a title is because Rob Artest made a clutch three Agree on the general assessment of their defense but 1) Kobe's all-defense selections were fraudulent. He was mostly guarding who guarded him at stage. i.e. he was standing in the corner 95% of the game with a guy who couldn't shoot to save his life and 2) since they allowed zone defense, team defense and in particular rim protection has been way more important than man defense And in 2010 Paul Pierce shot 35/31 against LeBron/Cleveland while he shot 44/40 vs LA. Though Ray Allen shot 37/29 to be fair and I'm pretty sure Kobe had that matchup Let's call it wash but I think LeBron was a significantly better defender by 2009
Dirk was better though. He just wasn't flashy like LeBron. Bron didn't really become super dominant until the following season when he learned how to shoot better.
I have found this and Russillo in general fairly recently and usually I'm not dissappointed with his takes but you can't say Kobe isn't the best player in the league or "has the belt" in 06 and 25 seconds later say LeBron should have it because he is the best player in the league and it's not only about tittles.... and especially when buddy got violated in the Dallas series having a super team averaging 17 points which was 10 points less than D Wade, I mean if you are not the best player on your team in the Finals how are you the best in the league? and how all of this is gucci for LeBron but Kobe carrying Smush Parker, Kwame, Luke Walton, Chris Mihm and Bryan Cook as your teammates
Kobe wasn't nearly as good as Lebron. If they didn't want to really irk the Kobe locals, i doubt they give him the 3 they did. Kobe was only really the best player in the world around 06 07. Lebron was better than him every other one.
@@umberto488 Ehm mate I said they should give it to him for 06 and you came in with he was the best only around 06,07 ?? I disagree regarding the Kobe and LeBron statement but I have no desire to argue about it, however you could probably checkout the 02-03 season where he played 82 games averaged 30/7/6 and 2.2 steals and had the 9 game streak of 40 point games, not sure how no one ever mentions this season considering Shaq was still a Laker but I guess it would be against the Shaq carried Kobe narrative
@@borislavpopov2548 Kobe was amazing, but he was often a liability to a winning culture. He played to make the winning shot, not to win. Kobe was my favorite player, but the more distance from his play, the more you see the corrosive effect of that hero ball he wrought. The Westbrooks and hardens empty stats and ugly Fg% are an ode to his style of play.
@@TheChessRunner bro yall act like Duncan didn’t need 2 all stars around at all times plz stop with these narratives and speak wtf happened!!!! Kobe literally beat Duncan in 08 playoffs something light so what he just got that good in one year ? Yall just be making shit up in your mind
If Luka wins the chip & finals MVP he’s in the conversation with Joker as the best player in the game. That’ll set him up to win his first regular season MVP next season which would make him the best player in the game
Nah. Legendary run but he wasn’t the best player. Wade honestly outplayed him in the Finals. The problem was LeBron fell apart, Miami had no depth and the Mavericks role players took it up a notch.
There was conversation after he won, but to Ryan's point it doesn't just pass to you automatically upon winning the finals, I think everyone had it as Lebron still regardless of his finals stink up.
It's an interesting topic but bill is so biased. I turned it off when he put duncan over Shaq in 2002. Lebron and Jordan are the only players that maybe were better than shaq in 2002 and that's a maybe.
Here's a better list of who had the belt, starting from the 1980s: 1980-81 Kareem 1981-82 to 1982-83 Moses Malone 1993-84 to 1985-86 Bird 1986-87 Magic 1987-88 to 1992-93 Jordan 1993-94 to 1994-95 Dream 1995-96 to 1997-98 Jordan 1998-99 to 2001-02 Shaq 2002-03 Duncan 2003-04 to 2004-05 Garnett (you can make a case for Tim Duncan because of the Spurs' titles) 2005-06 to 2009-10 Kobe 2010-11 to 2017-18 LeBron 2018-19 Kawhi 2019-20 Vacant (you can make a case for Kevin Durant) 2020-21 Giannis 2021-22 to 2023-24 Jokic 1998-99 goes to Shaq, as he was so dominant that Duncan called himself a PF to duck Shaq.
Or he played next to David Robinson? Duncan routinely guarded Shaq, and swept his ass in 1999 😂😂😂 If Duncan really decided to be a PF to get easy matchups and easier paths to awards, why in the 2010s did he stay at PF rather than go to C when it was at an all time low?
Bill, there’s no way Tatum is the best player in the NBA even if the Celtics win the finals.
Tatum isn’t among the top five players today. Top ten, ok. Best players now: Joker, Luka, SGA, Giannis, Brunson. Healthy Embiid over Tatum. Personally, I’d take Jalen Brown over Tatum.
@@charold3 Brown has never been and will never be a better player than Tatum, it's just his offensive style feels more like a No.1 than Tatum sometimes, but he cannot be the focal point of a team's offense like Tatum. Just like Kyrie can be the more explosive scorer than Lebron or Luka sometime, but he can never be a focal point of a offense like Lebron or Luka. I know Tatum is not as good as Luka and Lebron, but that's kind of similar in a less degree and not that easy to notice.
@@charold3 Found the Knicks fan.
I agree with you I think it’s more of a testament to how good the entire Celtics team is rather they how great Tatum is/can be.
@@charold3hope that's not in order because there's no case for SGA over Giannis
"It can't be a revolving belt of who won titles", Ryen is right on wereas Bill while being well-intentioned is wrong.
No one in their right mind would say that switching Durant and Lebron in those two finals would have given Cleveland a better chance of winning. You can’t give Durant the belt then.
Fair point, Durant was a bit of a Lebron Kryptonite in 2017, 2018 but the reality is because the deck was so stacked, Lebron was just a monster.
In 2017 you can give it to durant...in 2019 too before he got hurt
@@razkableI wouldn’t in 2017, 2019 yea I’m cool with that but Kawhi was for sure up there so I’m cool either way. 2020 back to Bron
Kevin Durant was the best player in the league for only 1 year and it was not 2019 or whatever RR thinks that year was.
durant wouldn't have made the finals if he was with the cavs
I’d argue that 99 Duncan might have been the best Duncan of all - even better than 03. He never regained his full athleticism after the knee injury in 2000. But shout out to Bill for recognizing his greatness over a long period.
So, let me get this straight: You think the FIRST YEAR Tim Played in the NBA was his best? So, one of the the most cereberal/ fundamentally sound bigs ever didnt learn enough through 2 decades to improve upon his rookie year?
Then you'd be wrong.
@80teg duncan was drafted in 97.....so 99 was his 2nd year.
The guy was damn FIRST TEAM all nba as a ROOKIE, better put some respect on that man's name.
In saying that, he was not the best player in the world from 02 to 07. I think Shaq still had it in 2003, arguably 2004 also, kobe started knocking on the door from that point onwards, I'd give it to him from 2005.
@@stanner6169shaq in 2004? Cmon man
It was actually his second year in the league. And he was a first team all NBA as a rookie and second year player. Duncan came in as experienced and ready as any number one pick in history because of a personal decision he made to finish school and honor his mother. Duncan averaged 27pts and 14rbs in the finals that year. And my main point was that he was more athletic before the knee injury that prevented him from playing in the 2000s playoffs.
lol he put him over Shaq in 2002
I want Kyrie to win Finals MVP just to see Bills reaction lmaoo
No matter what Kyrie does, I don't see how Luka won't get MVP if Mavs win
@@Gameofinches-goi Nah. If Kyrie has better stats than Luka, Kyrie wins the FMPV.
@@cryptidian3530that will never happen. Luka controls that team from start to finish. The team goes where luka goes. It's not built to let kyrie hero-ball them to a ship.
Imagine if they win it in Boston. I mean that's insane.
@@cryptidian3530 I think Kyrie could average 40 and Luka will still get MVP. The league keeps naming him 1st Team All NBA so no way they will let someone else get the most prestigious award. Also Kyrie has a stain against him. They didn't even let him be on the Olympic team this year.
Bill is on point when it comes to basketball knowledge/history. Except when he opens his mouth about the celtics. What a homer.
Thats fine tho, I think it makes him more entertaining to listen to. Just my opinion
And his hate boner for LA
He has literally made a career over making podcasts about whoever won lately is the GoAT
@@AlanMane I agree. It's honest and endearing in a way.
Hmmm.... no. I don't think so. He's straight up admitting Luka could beat his team because of how much more of a killer Luka is than Tatum.
I agree Ryen about Giannis, we all took a little too long to embrace Giannis just because of his play style but it became undeniable that he was top dog after awhile
I don't remember the belt being this arbitrary in the book where
1) it flip flopped every year
2) it automatically went to whoever won the title
Exactly.. Like if that title of “best player in the world” can be lost because you didn’t win the championship that year, you never really had it..
To me, this is a gut-feeling, eye-test title if there ever was one.. like, “whose league is it?”.. if it’s even an argument, then it’s an oligarchy, not a monarchy..
I think Kareem - Bird - Magic - MJ - Shaq - Kobe - Bron are the only definitive holders of that title in modern times.. and I’m even iffy on Shaq..
Agree on the flip flopping nature here. Just because another great player wins the title, that doesn't mean they are automatically up for the belt.
It’s a subjective argument any way you want to define who the best in the world is it will always be debatable.
An MVP level player in their prime winning a title as the best player on their team I think is close enough to accurate 80% or more of history but Bill acknowledges exceptions like Curry winning MVP and championship in 2015 but in the Finals it was pretty clear LeBron was the greater player just with less help .
@@gbmbg114I mean u act like most of the top players aren’t pretty equal to each other. U can say Lebron’s career was better than KD’s but u can’t say in a 1 game or 1 series vacuum that he’s a wayyy better player than Durant. It’s pretty close. Championships and winning are the only thing that separates people in these conversations
@johnnycash8567 .. I feel you.. but that’s why my list is so short.. because at their heights, there wasn’t really a close #2.. like I can’t remember a time when I’d argue KD over Lebron.. or when it was ever a legit, “I wonder who’s better?”.. and I’m more of a KD fan than Lebron fan..
For a kinda trivial example, I lived in Miami a little before, during and after Lebron came to town.. the tone of the whole city shifted during those 4 years.. it’s not even a basketball town, plus they loved D-Wade WAY more than Lebron.. it was just different.. businesses that had nothing to do with basketball were humming more.. people were more optimistic.. there was something in the air.. and when he left, for a little bit, you could feel the void.. so much so, where I could see exactly why Cleveland hated him so much for leaving.. (again, not a Heat or Lebron fan, just an observer)..
And that’s not a basketball reason or really that relevant.. but that’s my standard for “best player in the world”.. when Kobe played for the lakers and had the crown.. the rest of the NBA looked up to that guy.. and even though they’re competing and want to beat “the guy”.. there’s a part of them that knows, “I’m one of the best in the world.. but that guy is just plain better.. and he wants it more and he’s gonna do more of what it takes”.. they don’t even want to admit it, but they have to.. you can tell by how they interact and speak about each other..
I think Lebron went to Miami because he was kinda goofy, aloof and wanted the summer camp experience with his boys.. KD went to GSW, because he knew that was the only way..
I think Luka or Wemby might be next.. but the throne has been vacant since about 2020, give or take.. imho at least..
Russillo’s expressions and little quips kill me. You can tell Bill strikes a nerve in him
But he's always like this, and suffers from radiohost syndrome "I don't like what you're saying, but agree with you" bs.
@@hazeofthegreensmoke505 i love Russillo but this dude not wrong...
Bill literally cuts everyone off. It's so hard to watch the RUclips videos of the Simmons/Russillo stuff because Bill interjects and Ryen leans back violently, rubs his head and takes it because Bill is his boss. I'm surprised Ryen hasn't said, yo man can you not cut me off and change subjects as soon as it's my turn to speak.
SGA over Luka? You guys are dumb. Luka should have been MVP and this playoffs is proving it. Nevermind. Luka FMVP
34-9-10. They had Jokic and SGA above him. It's to hard to understand what's happening in the mind of these media people.
@@maxso3256 it's in the name:
Most
Valuable
Player
Not most points or highest counting stats or even best player
The reality is that even these last two rounds Luka's +/- is 2 points per game
That's it. Dallas just wasn't any worse with just Kyrie vs just Luka all year and they still aren't.
(Although they are awesome with both and terrible with neither.)
Whereas Denver and OKC turned into dumpster fires without Jokic and Shai. They were simply more _VALUABLE_ to their teams.
I'll just say this as mavs fan ...sga got whatever he wanted versus us...nobody else averaged over 20...
@@michaelahurt I remember when Luka got the blame for his teams being bad without him( "because his heliocentric style of play is not good for winning team").. but Jokic and SGA get credit for it lol.. the goal posts are always shifted when it comes to Luka
How should Luka have been MVP over Jokic when both had historic seasons but Jokic proved to be the more valuable player by a metric you look at. All the playoffs have proven is that Luka has a better team around him this year than Jokic not that he’s the better player
"i dont know what else Jokic could have done in the 24 playoffs" - Bill.
Idk how about not giving up a completely layup line to Anthony Edwards and company
Yeah… ur not wrong. If there’s one hole in his game it’s that he isn’t a help defender. He isn’t bad in a PNR and is good defending big man. But if ur gonna ask Jokic to be a really good help defender too ur asking him to be a literal perfect basketball player and that’s kind of a big ask
@@camhoman657 he was atrocious in the PnR for the vast majority of that wolves series. It literally cost them game 1 and game 6
@@camhoman657 a "perfect player" would go out of his way to clean up defensive mistakes, reacting to paint threats pro-actively like peak Hakeem or KG. No one's docking Jokic for not doing that. But Jokic wasnt even an average defender in that series. He was bad
@@allank8497 ok dude
@@allank8497 KG is one of my favourite all time players but his value comes from defense. KG had an all star level offensive package but Jokic offensively is at minimum a top 10 best offensive player of all time and some cases can be made for top 5. You can’t ask Jokic to do things his body is literally not capable of doing, his impact on a team comes from the offensive end its the teams job to makeup for his weaknesses. Jokic did everything possible, and if he did anymore he would be a perfect player (if he was an all defense caliber defender) and arguably the goat lmao.
99-2002 Shaq
2003-2007 Duncan
2008-2010 Kobe
2010-2017 LeBron
2018-2019 Durant
2020-2022 Giannis
The belt of best player in the world doesnt just hop from one best player in a championship team to the next and I am sorry but nobody considered Steph to be better than LeBron even in his absolute prime
Durant was never the best, Giannis 3 yrs in a row?? cmon boy got destroyed in 2020 playoffs
@@RMusing injured after down 0-3 clown
Bill is high af trying to say Lebron wasn’t the best player in 2011 lol. Props on Russillo for checking him and continued to check him when he tried to sneak Durant in there in 2017/18. Also loved him checking Bill on Magic.
Last comment but it’s funny that Bill was just giving it to anyone that won the title then 2020 came around and he says “Vacant”
@@ethangildone865 your so mad lmao
Nah it’s just because it’s hard to say someone the best player in the world when they meltdown in the finals. If warriors win game 5 in 2016 he’s universally considered the best in the world. They lost and was bad, lebron was great so he kept the title that’s just how it works
Russillo politely pointed out that being the best player on the championship team is not the same as being the best player in the world and he's right. It just means that there are five or six players in the league who are even capable of being the number one option on a championship team and you just have to put the right team around them.
“Michael grabbed it in 89”??
Magic won the MVP award in 87 ,89, and 90. Even though Jordan was awesome in those years, he didn’t get the MVP or make it past the Pistons. Give Magic some props for helping get the Lakers get 5 titles and Dominating the west for 8 NBA finals appearances in ten years.
I think magic was absolutely the best player in the NBA for the 87 season but I do think Michael basically began to take over the league by the 88 season. For 88 and 89 Magic still had prime James worthy and what was left of Kareem, not to mention Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, etc.
87’ Magic/MJ Toss-Up
88’ MJ 100%
89’ MJ/Magic Toss-Up
90’ MJ/Magic/Barkley
91’ MJ 100%
Ryan HATES the idea of Kobe being better than anyone 😂
...maybe bc he never was? 🤭
No, Ryen is tired of the dishonest glazing most people do when it comes to Kobe and are afraid to be honest due to how his life tragically ended.
@@just-trust-in-your-own-wayjust stop you never played basketball and u use your time to troll a sport you barley understand!
lol you need a head injury to think Kobe wasn’t the best player in 06-09
@jaygainer7955 it's true though. Kobe was to that era what Kyrie is this era. The most beautiful iso game but not a great leader.... though more so than Kryie
Russilo is right. Winning a title doesn't decide it. The best player is not always the guy with the ring.
Kawhi being considered the best player in the world at all ever but not Curry is so crazy to me. No team in the sport would trade Curry for Kawhi at any point after 2015 until even now.
Steph won 2 MVPs, the only unanimous MVP, 73 wins, 4 titles, one with Wiggins as his second best player, and you're telling me he was never the best player in the league but you're considering DURANT?! Lmao
MVP and best player are not the same.
they’re delusional Boston homers, they hate on Steph and Kobe cause they beat them in the finals
@@Obiamajoyisrmd they gave Kawhi the title for beating a Klay-less KD-less Warriors team. But Steph beats a fully healthy Boston team with Andrew Wiggins as his #2 and it's crickets
Yeah Steph has a strong case for 2015 & 2016 & 2021. Yes he lost to LeBron but I would penalize LeBron in 2011 for losing to the Mavs just like I wouldn't penalize Curry for losing to LeBron.
4 titles, yes. But say how it was done. He needed Kyrie and Kevin Love to miss the entire series to beat lebron for the 1st ring. Then he needed KD to beat Lebron to win the other 2. The Boston chip is legit but it was also the baby Celtics first Finals appearance.
Luka averaged 34/9/9 this year, Jokic a averaged 26/12/9. Luka should have won MVP, and if he wins the title he is absolutely 100% claiming the best player title
So much for that take
Giannis was the best player in the world from 2019-2022. Y’all gave Jokic MVP a year early in 2022 after changing the criteria for MVP from Giannis needing to win a championship. Giannis should’ve won 3 straight MVPs
Nah he could never create his own shot. Great player still
he got dominated in 2019 and 2020 playoffs, stop it. won 1 title and sat down
@@danhanthemandid jokic sit down this year cuz that is what Giannis did in 2022
@@whoknows20232He is a bad shooter so if thats what you mean with crewting his own shot than ok but he gets to the rim at will without needing much help so him getting to the rim is him creating his shot
@@RMusing that doesn’t work in the clutch. Zone is crowded
How you can give Dirk the belt for '11 but not give Wade the belt for his one man title winning crusade in 2006 (in fact talking about giving Kobe the belt in that year) is absolutely mind boggling. Flash was the best player in the NBA that year and proved it. I'm fine with vacant in 11 because Bron was the best player only to mentally check out in the Finals.
Curry unanimous MVP year was the best player in the world for me
I came here to make this point, thank you. No question about it. He was feared the way MJ was that year. anywhere from just above half court to the basket he could score. no other player can say that.
Yeah....but the minute KD came on the team he was obviously the better player. Curry changed the game and is an amazing system player, but he was never the best player in the league
The problem with that is, we saw Steph in the finals vs. LeBron, and Steph laid an egg. Steph wasn't even the best player on his team in the finals (was Draymond). And he came off having another middling performance in the finals the previous year, at least compared to his regular season stats. It was clear that LeBron was on a different level than Steph those two finals, so I don't know how you could give it to him when you had the direct comparison.
@@Tarrotyeah Steph had a great regular season (shouldn’t have been the first unanimous if we’re being honest Shaq and Bron were one vote away in 2 separate years and had some dumb media member vote for someone else out of spite) and should have won MVP… but Lebron was clearly the better player and ANY GM would tell you that imo
Nope. Choked in the finals, got outplayed by Kyrie. Didn’t do anything at an elite level except score/shoot. Yall gotta stop this revisionism
Would it kill them to get better webcams?
Maybe. Don't judge.
I don't get this, they are literally just talking about basketball, do u need Bill's wrinkles in 8k definition or something?
@@stanner6169 im just saying if they’re gonna turn the cameras on, they might as well be 1080p at least lol
actually it would :D
Bill and Ryen running their webcams at 360p for the ulimate viewing experience.
What does Jokic do better than Luka right now? Luka's shooting and ability to create off the dribble allow him to have a greater influence on a game.
Jokic has like the highest per ever 😂
Ideally:
99-2002 Shaq
03-05 Duncan
06-09 Kobe
10-18 LeBron
(IDK about 2016 Steph)
19-21 Giannis/Kawhi
22-Present Nikola
2016 steph for sure
Best player doesn't lose in the first round twice like Kobe
2020 was obviously lebron
2023 jokic 2022 giannis 2020 kawhi 2019 kd ormkawhi 2021 giannis 2007 duncan
No curry in 2016 maybe kd in 2017
Pretty easy: Russell/Chamberlain, Kareem/Erving, M.Malone, Bird, Magic, MJ, then it starts to bounce around from Duncan/Shaq/Duncan/Kobe/LeBron. Now we have Jokic/Freak/Luka all of whom could still go on a 3-5yr run where they get MVPs and rings.
I don’t see Dream. Easily had a two year run with the title.
Doing everything possible to hate on the Celtics as Bill’s own site gives the Celtics an 86% chance to win the championship.
not that high, but if he was backing them hard it’d be 0% I’ll concede your point.
@@UserNo1000 You’re right, it’s now *87%* for the Celtics to win the chip.
Those are the same odds they had against Golden State. Luka is going to break Bostons spirit just like Steph did. Dallas in six.
@@mjwbulich LMAO it’s also the same odds for Boston vs Miami, Cleveland and Indiana *THIS SEASON*
But you keep living in the past
Kawahi Leonard's run with the Raptros, the impossible rebuild, was undoubtedly the best season kawahi leonard ever had
This was painful to listen to honestly.
I have to agree
Why?
Curry 2015-16?
I think kawhi definitely has it for 2019. I understand not wanting to give it to someone for one year, but what's different about Kawhi's story in this is that barring injuries he could have had the belt for multiple years. He would have taken the belt in 2017, the year of the Zaza injury and kept it until 2021 when Giannis took it.
Only here will u see “analysts” ignore the fact that Steph Curry CHANGED the way the game is played and not call him the best player at least one of the yrs in his storied career.
Im not even a Warriors fan but its just asinine to not acknowledge the truth
But other teams hunt to expose him on defense every year he has been in the league. You can't be the best like that.
@@MikeBeltMikeBelt so u think other teams dont hunt Luka or Lebron or whoever?? i literally dont understand what you’re saying. Steph is hunted yet he still puts up his numbers and has how many rings??
Duncans 99 run is so underrated. 29 and 11 vs prime Shaq, young Kobe, and still good Glen Rice without a teammate giving him more than 14. And it was a sweep! Also how is Kobe best in 08 after losing in the Finals and possible in 11 after being swept by the same squad that took Bron out of consideration? 🤔 Never change William 😂😂
Imagine not making Shaq the best player in 2002
Duncan won league MVP in 2002
@@PutXi_Whipped who cares about mvps lol. Shaq would have won three straight years but was injured too much in the regular season. Just clown stuff. Steve Nash won two mvps. Who cares
@@ownthelibsShaq wasn’t the best player on his own team when it mattered in three straight WCF from 2000-2002. That was 21-23 year old Kobe. You’re exposing yourself as a casual that just looks at Finals stats.
@@thsu8Let’s face it, performances in playoff series before the finals are generally overlooked.
@@fortynights1513 Generally overlooked by casuals
Curry was the best player in the league from 2014-2018. The only player I saw playing at a Jordan level was mid-way through the 73 win season, when the Warriors beat OKC on the road and Curry hit the shot. That was Jordan-esque… other than that the belt has been up for grabs for a long time now.
No way, Lebron had it, curry had to go get damn kevin durant to beat him even after 73 wins.
Shaq was at Jordan level for three years
A month ago people were like "Jokic is the best player in the world and it's not even close!"
Jokic loses a game 7 and now it's
"Is Luka the best player in the world?!?"
Meanwhile, a healthy Giannis is still the best two way player on the planet.
In the 1980 season (60-22), the Lakers were 1st of 22 in ORTG & 9th of 22 in DRTG; scoring the 2nd most PPG while giving up the 11th most.
This team had the best record in the West and was 1 game behind the #1 Overall Seed in the Celtics (61-21).
Kareem also averaged
25/11/5/1/3 in 41 MPG on
64% TS--60% FG (10/17 per game)
& 77% FT (4/6 per game)--with Magic
as the only All-Star⭐️ help that season 🤫
Taking home the MVP that year
Kareem was ranked 6th in PPG, 7th in RPG, T-21st in APG, T-18th in SPG, *1st in BPG* ,
3rd in BLK%, T-18th in TREB%, 14th in DREB%, 2nd in EFG%, 3rd in TS%, 3rd in MPG, *1st in OWS* , 3rd in DWS, *1st in WS* , 6th in ORTG, T-5th in DRTG
*Magic 1980* ⤵️
18/8/7/2/1 on 60% TS (7/12 FG & 5/6 FT per g)
***************************************
1980 Finals⤵️
KAJ➡️33/14/3/1/5 in 41 MPG
15/27 FGpergame (55%)
4/5 FTpergame (81%)
33/14/5/0/6 (14/21 FG; 5/5 FT)
38/14/3/2/5 (L-19/31 FG; 0/2 FT)
33/14/3/0/4 (13/30 FG; 7/9 FT)
23/11/4/1/4 (L-11/27 FG; 1/1 FT)
40/15/1/0/4 (16/24 FG; 8/9 FT)
*For that series alone he ranked…*
MP: T-7th (-53 Magic, -51 Nixon, -49 Wilkes,
-41 Dr.J, -18 Cheeks, -13 Hollins)
*PTS: 1st (+14 Dr. J)*
*TREB: 1st (+1 Magic)*
OREB: 3rd (-9 Wilkes, -1 Magic)
*DREB: 1st (+2 Magic)*
AST: 8th (-37 Hollins, -36 Magic, -26 Nixon, -24 Cheeks, -14 Dr. J, -4 Cooper, -3 Wilkes & Bibby)
STL: T-6th (-13 Magic, -12 Cheeks, -10 Nixon,
-9 Hollins & Dr. J, -4 Cooper/Dawkins/B. Jones,
-2 Wilkes & Chones)
*BLK: 1st (+7 C. Jones)*
*FGM: 1st (+14 Dr. J)*
*FGA: 1st (+11 Wilkes)*
FTM: 3rd (-14 Magic, -13 Dr. J)
FTA: T-3rd (-22 Dr. J, -14 Magic)
***************************************
Magic➡️22/11/9/3/0 in 43 MPG
8/14 FGpergame (57%)
6/7 FTper game (88%)
16/9/10/3/0 (8/12 FG; 0/0 FT)
13/8/11/2/0 (L-5/8 FG; 3/3 FT)
16/11/5/2/0 (6/12 FG; 4/6 FT)
28/9/9/3/1 (L-10/14 FG; 8/10 FT)
14/15/10/3/0 w/ 10 TOV (4/13 FG; 6/7 FT)
42/15/7/3/1 (14/23 FG; 14/14 FT) alongside
Wilkes’ 37/10/2/1/0 effort
in 42 minutes going 16/30 FG & 5/5 FT
***************************************
Magic’s Games 1-5 1980 Finals➡️
17/10/9/3/0 on 62% TS%
***************************************
1980 Finals; Game 5. 2-2 Series.
Kareem goes for 40/15/1/0/4
on 72% TS% including his last 14
in the 4th on one leg.
Magic would end up going for
14/15/10/3/0 with 10 TOV on 44% TS%.
Steph unanimous MVP year is hard to deny. He revolutionized the game and made Klay/Daymond hall of fame players. KD was close the Warriors year to LeBron but that's a toss up to me.
I can deny because he needed the finals to legitimise it, and Lebron proved he was still a monster, I just don't recall him ever taking that from Lebron. Kd was definitely Lebrons Kryptonite in those 2017 to 2018 finals but because the team was so stacked I just don't think he was ever given the no.1 spot truly there.
The same year him and his team had the biggest choke in the history of north american sports and LeBron had the crowning glory of his career? Yeah you're delusional.
2006-2009 Dwayne Wade Won a Championship with Older Shaq (2006)
2008. Wade critical in the 2008 Olympic
redeem team .
🏆💪 Dwayne Flash Wade shared it with Lebron and KOBE
Kobe even said it
Using the Olympics is any kind of justification is hilarious
At no point was Wade the best player alive.
Why not start by honoring Bill Russell?? He was clearly # 1 on that Celtics team during those 11 titles... maybe Wilt takes it a year or two here or there.
He didn't score like that
60’ Wilt/Bill Toss-Up
61’ Wilt
62’ Wilt
63’ Wilt
64’ Wilt/Oscar
65’ Oscar/Bill/West
66’ Wilt
67’ Wilt 100%
68’ Wilt 100%
69’ VACANT (6 Legitimate Candidates)
So Kawhi was but Steph and KD weren’t? Crazy talk!
It’s Lebron ‘11 like, I get he had a really terrible finals but he was the best player in the league, that’s why we all killed him for it because I don’t think anyone would’ve argued Dirk was better than Lebron even after those finals
Agreed. I love Dirk and the Mavs but Dirk wasn't the best player in the league. He had an amazing playoff run. Lebron was Cleary the best player in the league during that time. No logical argument against Lebron.
Agree, although after the finals he was on shaky ground and there was conversation of "wait are we sure Dirks not the best in the world?" Just because of how great of a play-offs he had, but about 5 minutes into 2012 we remembered it was still lebron. As Ryan says, u don't snatch the belt for winning the title.
Lebron was the best player during that cavs warriors series, no doubt. But Curry in 22 was the best player in the league hands down. Even though jokic won MVP, curry was unbelievable. They finished 3rd in the west and He got through the nuggets , mavs and Celtics to win the title. I think you gotta give it to him in 22.
Kobe at the very least was the best individual player from 06 to 09. I think he was the best overall player during that period as well. From 08-10 he was the best player on 3 Lakers finals teams and back to back championship teams in 09 and 10. Plus he was the best or at least the most important player on the 08 Summer Olympics gold medal redeem team, the same year, he won his only league MVP. 08-10 belonged to Kobe.
Also, WTH is Ryan talking about?? Dirk ABSOLUTELY deserved the best player alive title in 2011. Mans literally went through Kobe, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, LeBron, Wade and Bosh to get to his LONE NBA championship. And was able to do that with his second best teammate being Jason Terry. I don’t care if it’s just for one year, that one year belonged to Nowitzki!
I would say Lebron was better than Kobe in 09 I remember thinking that at that time Kobe had the better team
@@Sheckyize LeBron was more athletically gifted and dominant than Kobe. Kobe’s skill set, ability to shoot, ability to defend one on one, ability to close, was still superior to LeBron IMO. Plus, LeBron had the benefit of playing in the eastern conference, that has almost always been an inferior conference to the West where Kobe played his whole career.
Kareem my goat... MJ second... Dominance, winning and leadership
I’ll take Curry in that 2021 (?) year when he wins the chip. He solo carried that entire team all season and dominated Jokic
you definitely didn’t watch that playoff run
Poole and Wiggins were fantastic
Curry wasn’t close to doing a carry job
There’s no year where Durant was the best in the league, not even half a year. It was either LeBron or Steph in the 2010s until Giannis and Jokic took over in the 2020s.
Crazy they got Duncan the best player all those years averaging barely 20 a game!!
That was the beauty of Duncan’s game. He didn’t care about scoring or personal statistics.
Generational defensive player
Wow. The casual in you is showing
They put him over Shaq in 2002
Yeah this was too long for me, shaq still had it in 2002, 2003. 2004 I think it was nobody, but Kobe was being mentioned in that year but arguably never took it with the 2004 nba finals stink up.
Bill's Basketball Championship Belt
69-70 Vacant
71 Kareem Abdul Jabbar
72 Wilt Chamberlain
73-76ish Kareem Abdul Jabbar
76 Julius Erving
77 Bill Walton
78-79 Vacant
80 Kareem Abdul Jabbar
81-83 Moses Malone
84-87 Larry Bird
88-89ish Magic Johnson
89-93 Michael Jordan
94-95 Hakeem Olajuwon
96-98 Michael Jordan
99 Vacant
2000-2002ish Shaq
02-07 Tim Duncan
08-10 Kobe Bryant
11 vacant
12-18is LeBron James
18-19(?) Kawhi Leonard
19(?) Kevin Durant
20 Vacant
21-22ish Giannis Antetokounmpo
22-current Nikola Jokic
70’ Kareem/Reed/West
71’ Kareem 100%
72’ Kareem 100%
73’ Kareem 100%
74’ Kareem 100%
75’ VACANT (5 Legitimate Candidates)
76’ Kareem 100%
77’ Kareem/Walton Toss-Up
78’ Kareem/Walton/Thompson/Gervin
79’ Kareem/Moses Toss-Up
80’ Kareem 100%
81’ Kareem/Dr. J/Moses
82’ Kareem/Dr. J/Moses
83’ Moses 100%
84’ Bird/King
85’ Bird 100%
86’ Bird 100%
87’ Magic/MJ Toss-Up
88’ MJ 100%
89’ MJ/Magic Toss-Up
90’ MJ/Magic/Barkley
91’ MJ 100%
92’ MJ 100%
93’ MJ/Barkley/Hakeem/Malone
94’ Hakeem/DRob/Shaq
95’ Hakeem/DRob/Shaq
96’ MJ/DRob Toss-Up
97’ MJ/Malone Toss-Up
98’ MJ/DRob/Malone
99’ VACANT (5 Legitimate Candidates)
00’ Shaq 100%
01’ Shaq 100%
02’ Shaq/TD Toss-Up
03’ TD/TMac/Dirk/KG
04’ KG 100%
05’ VACANT (7 Legitimate Candidates)
06’ Dirk/Bron/Kobe
07’ Dirk/TD/Bron/Nash
08’ VACANT (5 Legitimate Candidates)
09’ Bron/CP3
10’ Bron 100%
11’ Bron/Dwight/CP3/DRose
12’ Bron 100%
13’ Bron 100%
14’ KD/Bron
15’ Bron/Curry/Harden
16’ Bron/Curry/KD/Kawhi
17’ Bron/KD/Kawhi/Harden
18’ VACANT (5 Legitimate Candidates)
19’ Kawhi/Harden/Giannis
20’ VACANT (5 Legitimate Candidates)
21’ Jokic
22’ Jokic/JoJo/Giannis
23’ Jokic/JoJo Toss-Up
24’ Jokic/JoJo/Luka
Lol! Love the Max Kellerman Logic
Wild to say you can’t give the belt to Curry one season. Best shooter of all time, clutch player, 4 time champion, changed the game
man alot ppl chug steph, dudes so overrated
@@danhantheman He’s undoubtedly the best shooter of all time. Statistically by so far - how is that overrated. Throw in clutch moments, beating Lebron again and again, first ever unanimous MVP, and 4 trophies? Hater
Kobe belongs in between Shaq and Duncan
No chance lol. Shaq was the best in 2002. That's the real travesty. Kobe wasn't the best player until 2008
Curry was --- by far -- the best player alive in 2016. Better than Tim Duncan or Kobe EVER were. Numbers back it up. Late season, Harden tripped sweaty teammate Omar Asik who slid from mid court to the 3 point line. Pivoting to defend, Curry hurt his knee. Curry's MJ level confidence of the 73 win season didn't return. So Harden won a title --- for Lebron. . Slander to say Lebron was better in 2016. BS discriminates against short players. Peak AI wasn't better than Duncan & Kobe?
LMFAO
No, he wasn’t. Go check what Duncan did in 03 then come back to me
And AI is even more hilarious if you think any GM or coach at any moment in time was saying they’d take AI over Shaq or Duncan
Absolutely no way was Duncan the best player definitively from 2002 - 2007. Kobe was already at a higher level.
Yeah I had to pause the video when he said duncan 2002 to 2007, way too long.
Tbh I think Shaq still had it 2003 and 2004. Kobe from 2005-2008, Lebron entered in 2009.
Shaq was the finals mvp in 2002... and Kobe was the second best player to shaq up until 2004 And then Kobe didn't make it past the first round until 2008
@@stanner6169best player doesn't miss the playoffs or lose in the first round. Stop
Bill, you need to feature Doug Moe or Frank Layden . Even an 80’s NBA ref would be great. We need their stories and a few more from past era before they vanish.
Jokic is having better playoffs statisticlly than Luka...It's not his fault that all of his teammates underperformed or that he doesn't have second all star on his team..
Give Joker consistent 2nd star like Donaovan Michel for example and he got 3 rings by now...
Joker still holds the belt!
Can Joker ever be held accountable on this podcast objectively? No matter how good James Harden was on offense, you would still see the lowlights of his defense but Joker gets preferential treatment. You're saying I don't know what else he could have done in these playoffs. Bro. Three and a half of the games they lost in part because of him either getting slowed down and or because he couldn't guard a parked car under the rim.
What else could Jokic have done in the playoffs?? Maybe I’m watching a different game, but he’s up 20 in the 3rd quarter! Lol he bricked like 8 threes down the stretch.. rolled out the red carpet to the hoop on defense.. biggest choke job I can remember.. orchestrated 70 and 80pt games in the same series.. blown out by 30 and 50! Says “I’m cool with it after”.. what am I missing..
Wilt never got the belt in 67'? That was the greatest team until the 72' Lakers
Bill had to add a lot of "vacant"s when he realized LeBron would have the belt longer than Jordan.
I still think Jordan's prime is higher than Lebron's, but that is hilarious
I actually thought he was extremely fair to LeBron. He gave him 2011… 😂
MJ was absolutely the player in the league from the time he dropped 63 on the '86 Celtics till the shot in game six in '98.
I still think Hakem vs MJ would have been a GREAT FINALS Match up. Like Rockets in 7?!?!?
I think the belt is back to 'uncertain' after this year if Luka wins it. Don't think he passes Jok outright.
How about Luka wins a title and beats Jokic in the playoffs
This was like a great History lecture. You should do more of these on different topics, I think AB is a good starting point for your lessons. BB would be a little to far back.
Shaq in 2002 was one of the top 6 seasons of all time and he put Duncan over him lol
Kobe was ballin in 2002 as well. Played 82 games avg 30-7-6 basically
@@ElBrillante4during the 3 peat the lakers had a better record when Kobe didn't play. When Shaq was injured and Kobe played the lakers were .500. Kobe was an accessory who sometimes ball hogged it too much but he wasn't the engine of the team. He wasn't the one getting tripled teamed. I'm not saying they were better without him but he was replaceable. Shaq is the one who the offense went through.
@@ownthelibsit’s almost as if they were accustomed to playing in the triangle dumping it down to the big all of the time. Kobe closed games, Shaq failed with penny, Eddie Jones, Nick Van ex. Kobe needed to develop to get Shaq titles
@@DapperSZN no Shaq just entered his prime age. It's really not complicated. 27 is usually prime age. Sometimes it's 26 or 28. It makes sense that Shaq was at his best from 27-29. Stop trying to complicate things. It's annoying. Hate amateurs
@@ownthelibs lmao so then why you arguing Kobe in his prime wasn’t the best? Mental gymnastics like a mf
Curry absolutely had the belt 1 or 2 years in the middle of the lebron run
nah but keep trying
2015 Curry definitely had it, revisit
William is OBSESSED with the belt
2011 Dirk was clearly the best player. He went through everyone else that you'd consider at that point.
Seriously, that was the best run in NBA history and up until the Butler injury he was heads and shoulders the best and it wasn't even close.
@@aron.gortman
94’ Dream & 75’ Barry would like to have a word with 11’ Dirk
@@tyjohnson3111 Good picks as well, my man.
I would go from the start of 86-87 season as Bird said about MJ "That was god disguised as Michael Jordan" in the 1986 playoffs. SO:
86-93: JORDAN
93-95: THE DREAM
96-98: JORDAN
99: MAILMAN
99-02: SHAQ
02-05: DUNCAN
05-11: KOBE
11-16: LEBRON
16-19: DURANT
19-NOW: GIANNIS (Yes, defense matters and both Luka or Jokic doesn't play it at all beside some "stops"),
86’ Bird 100%
87’ Magic/MJ Toss-Up
88’ MJ 100%
89’ MJ/Magic Toss-Up
90’ MJ/Magic/Barkley
91’ MJ 100%
92’ MJ 100%
93’ MJ/Barkley/Hakeem/Malone
94’ Hakeem/DRob/Shaq
95’ Hakeem/DRob/Shaq
96’ MJ/DRob Toss-Up
97’ MJ/Malone Toss-Up
98’ MJ/DRob/Malone
99’ VACANT (5 Legitimate Candidates)
00’ Shaq 100%
01’ Shaq 100%
02’ Shaq/TD Toss-Up
03’ TD/TMac/Dirk/KG
04’ KG 100%
05’ VACANT (7 Legitimate Candidates)
06’ Dirk/Bron/Kobe
07’ Dirk/TD/Bron/Nash
08’ VACANT (5 Legitimate Candidates)
09’ Bron/CP3
10’ Bron 100%
11’ Bron/Dwight/CP3/DRose
12’ Bron 100%
13’ Bron 100%
14’ KD/Bron
15’ Bron/Curry/Harden
16’ Bron/Curry/KD/Kawhi
17’ Bron/KD/Kawhi/Harden
18’ VACANT (5 Legitimate Candidates)
19’ Kawhi/Harden/Giannis
20’ VACANT (5 Legitimate Candidates)
21’ Jokic
22’ Jokic/JoJo/Giannis
23’ Jokic/JoJo Toss-Up
24’ Jokic/JoJo/Luka
You all are underrating Steph. His shooting range and ability to move on the court makes other players on his team better. He doesn't just get assists, he makes it eaiser for his teammates to get and make shots. Part of the reason why you rank LeBron so high is his passing which is supposed to make the others on his team play better. But Steph does that and you don't recognize it. Put Lebron on those Warriors teams where Steph won the championships and see how many he gets. Probably two.
u must be high. lebron with the 73-9 warriors core and then add KD = 8 rings
This is why bill Simmons is the best
Timmy being the best player in the league for 6 years is quite generous. Prolly closer to 3, in my humble opinion
Def not 2002
Agree, when Bill said 2002 to 2007 err what.
02 and 03 he was defo the best. 04 is KG, 05 is a tough one, 06 has a few contenders (Kobe, Wade, Dirk, early Bron), 07 similar
@@AlexBrown-xp7mt Shaq in 2002 was a top 6 season in nba history. Ur on crack
@@ownthelibs by who’s criteria? It wasn’t even as good as 00 or 01 shaq, so is he rocking 3 of the 6 best seasons in history now? If you want to say shaq was the best player in the 2002 season, I’d say fair. The 6th best season in nba history? You’re the one on crack pal. It might not even be the 6th best season of the 00s.
So…Kawhi gets it after 2019? Giannis after 21? But Steph wins in 22 and nothing?
Curry, how in the fuck did you miss Curry 😑
He was never the best player.
He outplayed LeBron in 2016 but LeBron was still the best player. LeBron was the best player from 08 or 09 until arguably 21. Although I think KD in 17-19 is probably correct.
As much basketball as yall talk, missing years on Steph and Kobe is tragic.
Thank you!
Steph was the best player in the world at a few points (2015 & 2022 at least), to leave him out entirely is wild.
Steph and LeBron’s runs overlap at times. 2016 Steph was the best player in the world. Probably 2022 as well. But to leave Steph out entirely (especially with his unanimous MVP year) would be wrong.
That vote thing is WAY overblown. Had the voting been public record for previous winners, you would have seen a whole lot more unanimous winners in fear of voters being outted for spite or homerism. Never bring that BS "fact" up again.
Cmon Bill. Lebron had it for at least a decade since he drug Boobie Gibson and Anderson Varajao to the Finals in 2007 until like 2019. There was no debate on who was the best. Then Giannis, then Joker. Now maybe Luka.
Yeah but he did it in the east. Who was his biggest competition? The last year or so of the pistons good team? It’s the East, if your team is decent you’re making a playoff run.
@@limitedbom2206 Those Big 3 Celtics werent bad...
@@tyfahlmanyeah and they beat LeBron on multiple occasions from 2008-2011 until he joined formed a super team to compete with them and by the time they played each other in 2012 they were an old Celtics team. LeBron is great but Kobe was the best player in the world from 2008-2010 because when you go to 3 straight finals as the best player on that team and win 2 of them while winning an MVP in one of those years, you are the best player in the world.
Because the East was (and is) a total joke compared to the West. Having one incredible player and some solid role players was all that was needed to walk through the playoffs.
Nope
70’ MVP💎 Candidates
*70’ NYK (60-22, 1st East; Best Record)*
5th ORTG (+1.3), 1st DRTG (+6.6), 1st NET (+7.9)
9th in PPG (115) & 1st in Opp. PPG (105.9)
*All-NBA🏅 & All-Defensive 🔒 Walt Frazier*
*All-Defensive 🔒 Dave DeBusschere*
*All-NBA🏅 Willis Reed*
21.7/13.9/2
81 GP, 3089 MP, 38.1 MPG
55.2% TS% (+4.1; T-17th)
9/17 FG per game (50.7%-11th)
4/6 FT per game (75.6%-24th)
702/1385 FGM, 351/464 FTM
1126 TREB (5th), 161 AST (66th), 287 PF (13th)
7.2 OWS (8th), 7.5 DWS (1st), 14.6 WS (3rd)
*70’ MIL (56-26, 2nd East; 2nd Best)*
2nd ORTG (+3.1), 6th DRTG (+0.9), 2nd NET (+4)
4th in PPG (118.8) & 3rd in Opp. PPG (114.2)
*All-NBA🏅 & All-Defensive 🔒 Kareem*
28.8/14.5/4.1
82 GP, 3534 MP, 43.1 MPG
55.2% TS% (+4.1; T-17th)
11/22 FG per game (51.8%-7th)
6/9 FT per game (65.3%-31st)
938/1810 FGM, 485/743 FTM
1190 TREB (3rd), 337 AST (25th), 283 PF (14th)
9.3 OWS (3rd), 4.5 DWS (8th), 13.8 WS (4th)
*70’ LAL (46-36, 2nd West; 5th Best)*
8th ORTG (+0.1), 4th DRTG (+1.6), 5th NET (+1.7)
12th in PPG (113.7) & 2nd in Opp. PPG (111.8)
*All-NBA🏅 & All-Defensive 🔒 Jerry West*
31.2/4.6/7.5
74 GP, 3106 MP, 42 MPG
57.2% TS% (+6.1; 6th)
11/23 FG per game (49.7%-15th)
9/11 FT per game (82.4%-7th)
831/1673 FGM, 647/785 FTM
338 TREB (68th), 554 AST (7th), 160 PF (102nd)
11.5 OWS (1st), 3.7 DWS (10th), 15.2 WS (1st)
2016 the best player in the world was unanimously curry
Funny thing is, the Mavs probably would have had more trouble with the Nuggies than they did the T-Wolves. Just a simple matchup problem in both series. Wolves tried to play Luka straight up and did a decent job (safe game 5 the games were all super close), but the Nuggets probably could have taken at least 3 games on them, if not beat them outright.
How tf can there be vacant seasons?
A vacant season would have 5+ more viable candidates
Well, Bill just found his content for the summer. Steph best player discussion. It's clear from the comments.
Must be a couple fan boys, not a discussion.
2015 - doesn't win finals mvp because of the great defensive job iggy did on lebron.
2016 , incredible 73 win team, unanimous mvp, looking ready to take the belt, then blows the finals in a stink up, lebron still proved he's the greatest.
2017 - calls durant to come beat lebron in a cowardly move to stack the deck, disappeared from the conversation ever since.
@@stanner6169 stephews are the new kobe stans
You’re knocking Steph for losing in the finals? That was by way of Adam Silver to help LeBron’s legacy. Did you not see LeBron’s finals meltdown in 2011? And LeBron formed that Miami super team cause he couldn’t beat the KG Celtics, so don’t talk about Durant going to the Warriors.
Where's the new pod??
There is a correlation between winning the title and being the best player but not causal
It takes a great team to win a championship and doesn’t automatically mean the best player on that team is the best in the world
Think Kobe has it from 06-12 when Lebron dominates OKC and Kobe drags Nash & Dwight through that 13 season after that finals was a passing of the torch in stages of career.
Nope
It was like 06-08. By 2009 LeBron was _a lot_ better.
Kobe had a better team, much better teammates, better coach, but LeBron was winning 60+ games and might not have had another top 30 player on his team.
@@michaelahurtno way. Remember that Lebron was in the weaker conference and Kobe won MVP in 08 and made it to 3 straight finals plus led the redeem team im between all that.
@@michaelahurt fair, just from a completeness aspect Lebron still had holes in his game that were magnifying reasons in postseason losses. Definitely wasn’t surrounded with the same support system but there were answers for him until the Heatles formed. Kobe was a much better scorer at lower usage and opponents feared him in a different way up until 2011 when he was swept and then the wheels started falling off shortly after. Also, Kobe was able to provide all defensive 1st team on the other end and was a lot tougher to beat in isolation whereas Lebron impacted defense more on the help side with blocks and being in the passing lanes.
@@dchappell2020 Yeah the holes were his teammates sucked. Lol.
I think your memory is failing you saying Kobe was a much better scorer at lower usage. See below:
------ Kobe LeBron
FGA 20.6 | 20.9 ..... 19.9 | 20.1
PPG 28.3 | 26.8 ..... 28.4 | 29.7
TSr +1.7 | +0.2 .... +4.7 | +6.1
TS is relative to league average so Kobe's 54.5% in 2010 was only 0.2 above the league average of 53.3%
Kobe certainly had a greater reservoir of moves to pull from but by 2009 he'd lost enough athletically that he had to overrely on shit making.
LeBron did have holes in his game still and he conversely over-relied on his athleticism -- not that anyone could do anything about it -- but in 2009 and 2010 it really wasn't about him. (Try convincing me of that in 2010. Lol)
And because they played the same teams we can just compare the results:
2009 vs Orlando
Bron -- 38-8-8 on 59% TS
Kobe - 32-6-7 on 52% TS
Difference: Orlando had a 113 off rtg vs Cleveland and 100 vs LA
2010 vs Boston
Bron -- 27-9-7 on 56% TS
Kobe - 29-8-4 on 53% TS
Difference: Offensive rebounding. 32% for LA and 21% for Cleveland
LeBron did quit in that series though. Of course the only reason we don't remember Kobe shooting his team out of a title is because Rob Artest made a clutch three
Agree on the general assessment of their defense but 1) Kobe's all-defense selections were fraudulent. He was mostly guarding who guarded him at stage. i.e. he was standing in the corner 95% of the game with a guy who couldn't shoot to save his life and 2) since they allowed zone defense, team defense and in particular rim protection has been way more important than man defense
And in 2010 Paul Pierce shot 35/31 against LeBron/Cleveland while he shot 44/40 vs LA. Though Ray Allen shot 37/29 to be fair and I'm pretty sure Kobe had that matchup
Let's call it wash but I think LeBron was a significantly better defender by 2009
good point about 2011 ryen
I’m a huge Mavs fan and Dirk is one of my favorite players of all time…but there is no argument for Dirk being better than Lebron in 2011 lmfao
I am not a Mavs fan, nor Dirk’s and I believe Dirk was the best player that year.
Dirk was better though. He just wasn't flashy like LeBron. Bron didn't really become super dominant until the following season when he learned how to shoot better.
@@kassios no he wasn’t…he had a great playoff run but Lebron was the best player there’s a difference
what I understand is that everybody getting the best player belt winning the finals except Curry
I have found this and Russillo in general fairly recently and usually I'm not dissappointed with his takes but you can't say Kobe isn't the best player in the league or "has the belt" in 06 and 25 seconds later say LeBron should have it because he is the best player in the league and it's not only about tittles.... and especially when buddy got violated in the Dallas series having a super team averaging 17 points which was 10 points less than D Wade, I mean if you are not the best player on your team in the Finals how are you the best in the league? and how all of this is gucci for LeBron but Kobe carrying Smush Parker, Kwame, Luke Walton, Chris Mihm and Bryan Cook as your teammates
Kobe wasn't nearly as good as Lebron. If they didn't want to really irk the Kobe locals, i doubt they give him the 3 they did. Kobe was only really the best player in the world around 06 07. Lebron was better than him every other one.
@@umberto488 Ehm mate I said they should give it to him for 06 and you came in with he was the best only around 06,07 ?? I disagree regarding the Kobe and LeBron statement but I have no desire to argue about it, however you could probably checkout the 02-03 season where he played 82 games averaged 30/7/6 and 2.2 steals and had the 9 game streak of 40 point games, not sure how no one ever mentions this season considering Shaq was still a Laker but I guess it would be against the Shaq carried Kobe narrative
@@borislavpopov2548 Kobe was amazing, but he was often a liability to a winning culture. He played to make the winning shot, not to win. Kobe was my favorite player, but the more distance from his play, the more you see the corrosive effect of that hero ball he wrought. The Westbrooks and hardens empty stats and ugly Fg% are an ode to his style of play.
Gotta give it to Wade for at least '06-'07...come ON!
06
Saying Duncan had it until 07 u just hate Kobe and it shows yall white plp are wild lmao
If you trade up straight up Kobe for Duncan. Who says yes in 07. Maybe both no, but Spurs says it faster
@@TheChessRunner u lying to yourself! Lmao
@@TheChessRunner bro yall act like Duncan didn’t need 2 all stars around at all times plz stop with these narratives and speak wtf happened!!!! Kobe literally beat Duncan in 08 playoffs something light so what he just got that good in one year ? Yall just be making shit up in your mind
Your comment shows how racist you are. Good job. 👍
@@MrOctober44 what’s racist ?
If Luka wins the chip & finals MVP he’s in the conversation with Joker as the best player in the game. That’ll set him up to win his first regular season MVP next season which would make him the best player in the game
Trollll
Dirk had the belt in 2011
Nah. Legendary run but he wasn’t the best player. Wade honestly outplayed him in the Finals. The problem was LeBron fell apart, Miami had no depth and the Mavericks role players took it up a notch.
There was conversation after he won, but to Ryan's point it doesn't just pass to you automatically upon winning the finals, I think everyone had it as Lebron still regardless of his finals stink up.
I just watched to see if you gave Doc his respect in '76....well done. and in 1978, vacant? Maybe at least a mention for David Thompson?
Dumbest conversation of all-time
It's an interesting topic but bill is so biased. I turned it off when he put duncan over Shaq in 2002. Lebron and Jordan are the only players that maybe were better than shaq in 2002 and that's a maybe.
What Wade does in 06 is the same or better as what Luka to will achieve this year by winning the title . .
Not really. The foul calls were hilariously bogus
@@hardwoodthought1213 luka gets the same calls
Can we stop this musical chairs with this fake championship belt it’s starting to become whoever wins the championship is the best player
Exactly. Because I’m like just because a guy doesn’t win it all doesn’t mean he wasn’t hands down the best player in the league.
@@TheKidwonda Yup. Agreed. Imo this year it was still Joker. The guy was awesome but sometimes you just don't have the horses to win a chip.
Yeah. It's honestly getting stupid now.
Here's a better list of who had the belt, starting from the 1980s:
1980-81 Kareem
1981-82 to 1982-83 Moses Malone
1993-84 to 1985-86 Bird
1986-87 Magic
1987-88 to 1992-93 Jordan
1993-94 to 1994-95 Dream
1995-96 to 1997-98 Jordan
1998-99 to 2001-02 Shaq
2002-03 Duncan
2003-04 to 2004-05 Garnett (you can make a case for Tim Duncan because of the Spurs' titles)
2005-06 to 2009-10 Kobe
2010-11 to 2017-18 LeBron
2018-19 Kawhi
2019-20 Vacant (you can make a case for Kevin Durant)
2020-21 Giannis
2021-22 to 2023-24 Jokic
1998-99 goes to Shaq, as he was so dominant that Duncan called himself a PF to duck Shaq.
Or he played next to David Robinson?
Duncan routinely guarded Shaq, and swept his ass in 1999 😂😂😂
If Duncan really decided to be a PF to get easy matchups and easier paths to awards, why in the 2010s did he stay at PF rather than go to C when it was at an all time low?