I've got a 2012 plate Mondeo titanium diesel ... Fantastic car, feels sporty loads of Space, massive boot I've had a few Bmws and Mercs, Audis but the Mondeo you feel like you've won a watch there's so much spec in it and it drives superb.
Excellent video. One of the most down to earth and practical on the net!! Just ordered a 1.6tdci and if it makes you feel better the voice activation doesn't like jock accents either.
As a Ford fan, I think you are wrong Dahlia Man, Bob was right, In the UK The Mondeo was a replacement to the Sierra, which was a replacement to the Cortina. The Granada/Scorpio was faded out and never replaced by anything and the first gen Focus was a replacement to the good old Escort LX!.. Great videos Bob and I would love to see his effort. The Mondeo mk4.5 is a great car and deserves more praise for its value for money, drive and chassis, reliability and interior/exterior quality having come from many Jap and German cars who all have been expensive to up keep, repairs or buy in comparison. Cheers.C.
The manual of the Ford Mondeo contains a portion dedicated to voice control, find it in the manual contents page. Voice control functions are: Phone, radio, external device, CD player, climate, or directly select, dial number, dial name, or store name. Press the voice control button and wat for the beep, themn say 'help' - it will tell you what commands you can use. One I like is: "De-misting on" or "defrosting on" or "defrosting/mnisting off".
Bob, fair balls. There's a spot available on Top Gear and you'd be the perfect candidate. I'm off to buy a Mondeo - 5 years old or not its an underrated gem. Thanks for your info. G
I just picked up a 2012 Zetec, and found this review helpful, and pretty spot on in making my choice.It is a practical car that drives well, one that appeals to the head as well as the heart.
1) The USB port is located in the glove box beside the auxilery input in the Mondeo, S-max and Galaxy. It is surrounded by a strip of chrome for appearence and so you can locate it easily. 2) To flash the highbeams, pull the stalk towards you. What Ford did with the high beams is to activate them, pull the stalk towards you which is far more ergonomic and falls to hand easier than pushing the stalk fowards to activate high beams. If you would like me to explain any further "shit" functions, ask.
For presetting radio stations, simply use the voice control: It will say 'device please' *beep* - after the beep, say 'radio'. It will reply with 'radio' - you then say 'FM', it will reply with 'FM, frequency please' you say '96.4' (for example) the system will finally respond with 'tune, 96.4'. Alternatively, just use the arrows on the volume control know to manually select your station of preference. To preset stations in the Mondeo's memory, simply press a number from 1-0 and hold it down.
Great review. Well done mate, especially considering you said it's one of your first. I'm about to buy a Mondeo of that era so the video still remains relevant today. Go raibh maith agat 👍
So they are reliable? Would you recommend them for a first car? I'm looking for my first car and I'm my country they cost around 10 grand so not too expensive as that is my budget aha
recently got one, im happy but i dont have the best equipment level and was wondering if it would be possible or reasonable too to install these chrome things around front grill and side windows.. ? :S
I love the Mondeo, I've owned the first one ('95 Ghia), the second ('99) and I'm currently owning the third one ('02). I want to buy the fourth, but I really can't afford one yet. I'm a single guy with no kids, but I just fell in love with the Mondeo, and they're cheap on the used car market compared to their competitors since it was the most popular car in Norway from 1993 to 2005.
I agree with the voice control but it is a fantastic car, great to drive and really responsive. comes with loads of kit as standard and looks fantastic.
The Mondeo has the most ergonomically placed buttons, dials and knobs, everything falls perfectly to hand. Which trim do you have? Edge? Zetec/Zetec Business? Titanium? Titanium X/ X Sport? etc...
The Mondeo has two ways of adjusting the sound system. The first is the voice control, which is a standard feature on all models, from Graphite to Edge, to Titanium X business edition, to Titanium X sport etc. You can use the traditional way of scrolling through the menu controls on the radio, much like every single other car does, or you can use the advanced voice recognition system. this helps heep driver's attention on the road, in poor weather or low visibility. Ask me for voice commands.
Bob, Mondeo is not on the same chassis as the Mazda6. Mondeo is on the modified Focus C1 platform called EUCD or C1+. The current American Fusion shared the Mazda6 underpinnings.
I was a bit confused for a while as to why you were so pissed that bluetooth was an option for the car. Until I realised (I assume) that you meant it should come as standard..
Bob what other commands can you use on the voice control because my dad got a 2012mondeo two days ago and doesnt no how to use the voice control and the car didnt come wiv an instruction manual strangely any help would be appriciated
Great video! Summation is very intresting. Only one thing with this car is wrong - badge. Similar problem have Kia/Hyundai and Fiat. Mat from CarBuyer did very interesting thing. He put Lexus badge on Kia Optima. Even for me (I'm not a badge snob) Optima began to look much more atractive and solid.
@jaffacake1578 Amm Jaffa, that's what I said in the video. It replaced the Sierra. Anyway what has the knowledge of one model replacing the other got to do with how a car feels and goes today? Haters be hating I think is the phrase
Can anyone please tell me where is the aerial signal/frequency. I don't want to get radiated, getting brain tumor due to this radio/gps invisible antenna. I can see that it doesn't exist as it once was on the previous models such as, Mondeo Mk3. But, where is located the magnetic radio wave? Most of cars, almost all of them, have the antenna and aerial signal at the end of them, near the trunk. Mondeo or Focus until recently considered that is "very good" for the customers to have antenna just above the front passengers. Where is the antenna signal when it comes to MK4 (facelift) and MK5? Thank you!
@ 5:40 - Bluetooth is not an option on most Fords, in fact, Ford is the only car company to offer bluetooth as standard on almost all of its models. Even the Mondeo Edge comes standard with bluetooth. ford(dot)co(dot)uk/Cars/Mondeo/FeaturesAndSpecifications - scroll down to just further than halfway to the Interior Equipment section, it's the first feature listed. :)
Please also ensure that when using voice recognition for things like the phone function, that you do not say things like 'Oh' instead of the number 'Zero' - the system recognises 'O' as a letter and 'Zero' (0) as a number. If you have any other queries, please do not hesitate to contact me for further assistance on your Mondeo. Enjoy. :)
I own this car in a 1.6 ecoboost petrol , after a couple months of owning and still feeling abit sad for letting my focus ST go, I can report : coming down from a 2.5t I find I blinding on petrol, I also find it has slightly shorter ratios of that in the Focus Titanium,, which help it to feel more spritely in gear,, 0-60 is a bit woe full , but around town I could rarely use my ST power anyway, So the 1.6EB does the job just well, the start stop is better left off when in bumper to bumper traffic or you might burn the starter out. However I do find it labours at @20mph in 3rd and it's just about on the turbo at 30mph in 4th 1500rpm,, can't really use 5 th much under 37-40mph as it labours. Which I wasn't used too. Having said all that at : 70mpg in 6th gear it plods along silent , and to be fair for a 1.6 in a big mondeo it really pulls well for any over take shocked I was. The ride is very quiet and softens out the bumps where the ST felt like a plank of wood. Voice control=pants
+Carlos Curioso I don't really know Im guessing that is the American Model. And assume your not in America or you would be able to find the Fusion. However if you think that the Mk4 Mondeo is Small ? Wow, The boot/ Trunk is massive , there is good amount of space in the rear I'm 6ft 2, and I like my Seat back and people still can get in behind me . And my seat is not fully back . The car is Big to me . Bigger than a mk3 Mondeo .
sounds drops after 10minutes..........................why???......................is the mondeo on way out??? great car..................................will be a big loss................if going away.............
Ford kinetic design died with previous generation Mondeo/Focus, both of which were lovely, especially in top spec. Current gen design is referred to as shitenetic if I recall correctly.
I would agree that the new Focus looks more kinetic - there are more lines of expression in the bodywork, the front headlights are just as dynamicly shaped, but the rear - especially the shark fin tail lights look more inspired by motion. As for the Mondeo, there is a new power dome on the bonnet and other exterior finishing touches, but the kinetic aspects have all been kept exactly the same, so sorry, but I don't know what you're talking about. I have also never heard the phrase 'shitnetic'...
In Australia the Mondeo is a fairly obscure car. I have a friend with a new Mondeo so I have experience with this car. Personally I was surprised by this review holding it out as an equal to a Mercedes or BMW except for brand? I find the Sony stereo somewhat 90's with the cheap glossy plastics. The seats, dash display and steering wheel also feel cheap and unremarkable. Granted the ride and space is ok however no equal in my opinion. That said the Commodore is nothing to rave about either.
I liked the original Mondeo and the face lift (had one as a taxi). I really liked the look of the one before this version. This version, being the kinetic design, I don't like the look of. Talking about name change, Vauxhall did that with the Vectra and maybe he's right as the Mondeo name has been around for 20 years now. The top of the range one will cost 26000 pounds Sterling and the depreciation rate is alarming at 6000 in the first year alone! They don't hold their value. :(
I wish to get that mondeo in 2.2 TDCI engine but I'm waiting when my mk3 mondeo dies. I think before that happens they will put mk5 on the market. LOL. I love those cars...
As I have said before, please inform me of the buttons and knobs that you find overwhelming and excessive/pointless, and I will explain their purpose to you. There is nothing in a Mondeo that isn't usually needed... and if you don't need it, don't use it... simple. It's not just the Mondeo's wing mirrors, every car's wing mirrors can be decieving in making objects appear further than they are. Ford offers a blind spot information system to aid drivers knowing when a car is in your blind zone.
All Mondeos had bluetooth from launch. The only *possible* exception might be the very entry level "Edge" models (rare) but Zetec upwards all have BT. The Mondeo fails compared to the German stuff not just because of the name, but the interior quality and other small quality details. The facelift model tested has a much improved interior. Otherwise a fantastic car to drive and own!
You can say Help and the car with list the commands out to you. The easy ones are "Dial Number" "Temperature" and "Radio" to control the radio station. I also found you an on line manual which is good fordmanuals (dot) org (forwardslash) page-3000
i love irish reviews. euros and the metric system! makes it easy to understand for an mainland european
I've got a 2012 plate Mondeo titanium diesel ... Fantastic car, feels sporty loads of Space, massive boot
I've had a few Bmws and Mercs, Audis but the Mondeo you feel like you've won a watch there's so much spec in it and it drives superb.
Just a great ride. Fantastic, and with character. It not the Merc E or BMW but it's a damn good car for the money. I love my Mondy.
Most informative proper video I found on youtube for the mondeo. Thanks!
All the other ones must be a complete pile crap, because this ain't any good.
Excellent video. One of the most down to earth and practical on the net!! Just ordered a 1.6tdci and if it makes you feel better the voice activation doesn't like jock accents either.
As a Ford fan, I think you are wrong Dahlia Man, Bob was right, In the UK The Mondeo was a replacement to the Sierra, which was a replacement to the Cortina. The Granada/Scorpio was faded out and never replaced by anything and the first gen Focus was a replacement to the good old Escort LX!.. Great videos Bob and I would love to see his effort. The Mondeo mk4.5 is a great car and deserves more praise for its value for money, drive and chassis, reliability and interior/exterior quality having come from many Jap and German cars who all have been expensive to up keep, repairs or buy in comparison. Cheers.C.
Bob Flavin thanks to your review ive just bought a 2012 mondeo titanium. best review on youtube by far keep up the great work.
I'm looking to buy a Mondeo from this year 2009/10 so everything reviewed here is relevant to me . good review . thanks :)
The manual of the Ford Mondeo contains a portion dedicated to voice control, find it in the manual contents page. Voice control functions are: Phone, radio, external device, CD player, climate, or directly select, dial number, dial name, or store name. Press the voice control button and wat for the beep, themn say 'help' - it will tell you what commands you can use. One I like is: "De-misting on" or "defrosting on" or "defrosting/mnisting off".
Bob, fair balls. There's a spot available on Top Gear and you'd be the perfect candidate. I'm off to buy a Mondeo - 5 years old or not its an underrated gem. Thanks for your info. G
greg davey Im going to buy a used 4-5 years too in november. Its a really underrated car.
I just picked up a 2012 Zetec, and found this review helpful, and pretty spot on in making my choice.It is a practical car that drives well, one that appeals to the head as well as the heart.
1) The USB port is located in the glove box beside the auxilery input in the Mondeo, S-max and Galaxy. It is surrounded by a strip of chrome for appearence and so you can locate it easily. 2) To flash the highbeams, pull the stalk towards you. What Ford did with the high beams is to activate them, pull the stalk towards you which is far more ergonomic and falls to hand easier than pushing the stalk fowards to activate high beams. If you would like me to explain any further "shit" functions, ask.
For presetting radio stations, simply use the voice control: It will say 'device please' *beep* - after the beep, say 'radio'. It will reply with 'radio' - you then say 'FM', it will reply with 'FM, frequency please' you say '96.4' (for example) the system will finally respond with 'tune, 96.4'. Alternatively, just use the arrows on the volume control know to manually select your station of preference. To preset stations in the Mondeo's memory, simply press a number from 1-0 and hold it down.
Why and when did you buy it?
great review and interesting point of view. ur a breath of fresh air. all the best from a focus 3 owner :)
It is Euro and Irish prices although the price might have changed since the test, it would still be near enough right.
Great review. Well done mate, especially considering you said it's one of your first. I'm about to buy a Mondeo of that era so the video still remains relevant today. Go raibh maith agat 👍
This comment was 4 years ago! How was the car?
It's a Brilliant car. I've had mine for 4 years and had no trouble from her.
So they are reliable? Would you recommend them for a first car? I'm looking for my first car and I'm my country they cost around 10 grand so not too expensive as that is my budget aha
@@charliemcquillan4010 What country do you live in?
@@pauldunneska Australia
The rear flatblade wiper is fitted backwards. Very nice review, by the way.
recently got one, im happy but i dont have the best equipment level and was wondering if it would be possible or reasonable too to install these chrome things around front grill and side windows.. ? :S
This video made me buy a Mondeo. Thanks!!!
+Pedro Antunes I hope it's good!
I love the Mondeo, I've owned the first one ('95 Ghia), the second ('99) and I'm currently owning the third one ('02). I want to buy the fourth, but I really can't afford one yet.
I'm a single guy with no kids, but I just fell in love with the Mondeo, and they're cheap on the used car market compared to their competitors since it was the most popular car in Norway from 1993 to 2005.
I agree with the voice control but it is a fantastic car, great to drive and really responsive. comes with loads of kit as standard and looks fantastic.
There's an RS being launched this year, ST on the cards (I saw some pictures from a render) we'll see if they make it
The Mondeo has the most ergonomically placed buttons, dials and knobs, everything falls perfectly to hand. Which trim do you have? Edge? Zetec/Zetec Business? Titanium? Titanium X/ X Sport? etc...
@dkiprakis Thanks Demetrios, I'm glad you like it.
Bob
The Mondeo has two ways of adjusting the sound system. The first is the voice control, which is a standard feature on all models, from Graphite to Edge, to Titanium X business edition, to Titanium X sport etc. You can use the traditional way of scrolling through the menu controls on the radio, much like every single other car does, or you can use the advanced voice recognition system. this helps heep driver's attention on the road, in poor weather or low visibility. Ask me for voice commands.
Can you tell me how the Mondeo drives on bumpy roads, potholes, islands in the road, etc? Is it a soft and comfortable ride? Thanks!
good vid., thanks. I got a mondeo, and now I want YOUR mondeo. cheers.
You were young! 👀😂
What’s with the music in part of the 2nd half?
Good review Bob
good taste in music too !!
@jaffacake1578 No problem dude, cheers for the comment!
And subscribed.... nice review. Seeing a few used Mondeo's in Australia.
Bob, Mondeo is not on the same chassis as the Mazda6. Mondeo is on the modified Focus C1 platform called EUCD or C1+. The current American Fusion shared the Mazda6 underpinnings.
I was a bit confused for a while as to why you were so pissed that bluetooth was an option for the car.
Until I realised (I assume) that you meant it should come as standard..
Bwa Ha ha, the car's voice command couldn't understand him, neither could I!!!
I answered your comment on an other vid, but i wanna ask you... Wich car would you do recommend then?!
Bob what other commands can you use on the voice control because my dad got a 2012mondeo two days ago and doesnt no how to use the voice control and the car didnt come wiv an instruction manual strangely any help would be appriciated
Is it only the titanium that has the usb port in the glove compartment?
Like always a great review.
What? Dirty tree? Agree with him on everything.
Enjoyable video. Thankyou.
Great video!
Summation is very intresting. Only one thing with this car is wrong - badge. Similar problem have Kia/Hyundai and Fiat. Mat from CarBuyer did very interesting thing. He put Lexus badge on Kia Optima. Even for me (I'm not a badge snob) Optima began to look much more atractive and solid.
@jaffacake1578 Amm Jaffa, that's what I said in the video. It replaced the Sierra. Anyway what has the knowledge of one model replacing the other got to do with how a car feels and goes today?
Haters be hating I think is the phrase
Thanks very much! There are many cars in Saudi Arabia I'd love to test, many roads I'd love to drive too, money is all that stops the dream lol
Can anyone please tell me where is the aerial signal/frequency. I don't want to get radiated, getting brain tumor due to this radio/gps invisible antenna. I can see that it doesn't exist as it once was on the previous models such as, Mondeo Mk3. But, where is located the magnetic radio wave?
Most of cars, almost all of them, have the antenna and aerial signal at the end of them, near the trunk. Mondeo or Focus until recently considered that is "very good" for the customers to have antenna just above the front passengers. Where is the antenna signal when it comes to MK4 (facelift) and MK5? Thank you!
Are you sure it's a Fusion RS or ST? Not Focus?
@ 5:40 - Bluetooth is not an option on most Fords, in fact, Ford is the only car company to offer bluetooth as standard on almost all of its models. Even the Mondeo Edge comes standard with bluetooth. ford(dot)co(dot)uk/Cars/Mondeo/FeaturesAndSpecifications - scroll down to just further than halfway to the Interior Equipment section, it's the first feature listed. :)
Please also ensure that when using voice recognition for things like the phone function, that you do not say things like 'Oh' instead of the number 'Zero' - the system recognises 'O' as a letter and 'Zero' (0) as a number. If you have any other queries, please do not hesitate to contact me for further assistance on your Mondeo. Enjoy. :)
I own this car in a 1.6 ecoboost petrol , after a couple months of owning and still feeling abit sad for letting my focus ST go, I can report : coming down from a 2.5t I find I blinding on petrol, I also find it has slightly shorter ratios of that in the Focus Titanium,, which help it to feel more spritely in gear,, 0-60 is a bit woe full , but around town I could rarely use my ST power anyway, So the 1.6EB does the job just well, the start stop is better left off when in bumper to bumper traffic or you might burn the starter out. However I do find it labours at @20mph in 3rd and it's just about on the turbo at 30mph in 4th 1500rpm,, can't really use 5 th much under 37-40mph as it labours. Which I wasn't used too.
Having said all that at :
70mpg in 6th gear it plods along silent , and to be fair for a 1.6 in a big mondeo it really pulls well for any over take shocked I was. The ride is very quiet and softens out the bumps where the ST felt like a plank of wood. Voice control=pants
Do you know where can i found a Ford fusion sedan (North american model) in Europe? i hate those small cars made in Europe
+Carlos Curioso
I don't really know Im guessing that is the American Model. And assume your not in America or you would be able to find the Fusion.
However if you think that the Mk4 Mondeo is Small ? Wow, The boot/ Trunk is massive , there is good amount of space in the rear I'm 6ft 2, and I like my Seat back and people still can get in behind me . And my seat is not fully back . The car is Big to me . Bigger than a mk3 Mondeo .
+Carlos Curioso you have to be kidding...!? The Ford Mondeo is almost 5 meters long!
+zhen101 i still prefer the american model,the design is more classy and it comes with automatic transmission by default. 😍
We like to change gear ourselves
Thank you kindly!
İs this 1.6 tdci or another engine ?
Mondeo is the best large family car again.. although it is old 5 years and its on the fin of production
Likely a bit softer, though perhaps not much with the new One Ford effort. Plus, there's rumors of an ST...
Nice videos bob
mondeo looks awesome
LOL, US edition is softer but basically the same as the one we get here.
sounds drops after 10minutes..........................why???......................is the mondeo on way out??? great car..................................will be a big loss................if going away.............
That you youtube algorithm for showing me a pre-pubescent Bob Flavin
good lord that's a long time ago!
Ford kinetic design died with previous generation Mondeo/Focus, both of which were lovely, especially in top spec. Current gen design is referred to as shitenetic if I recall correctly.
I would agree that the new Focus looks more kinetic - there are more lines of expression in the bodywork, the front headlights are just as dynamicly shaped, but the rear - especially the shark fin tail lights look more inspired by motion. As for the Mondeo, there is a new power dome on the bonnet and other exterior finishing touches, but the kinetic aspects have all been kept exactly the same, so sorry, but I don't know what you're talking about. I have also never heard the phrase 'shitnetic'...
This is 2010 model?
If i was a junior sale's rep id love this car... think the day's of them getting mondeos is gone more like fiesta's and citroen c1's lol
i love your videos you're really talented , btw I'm from Saudi Arabia :D
Well, if it has problems with my flat Irish accent I'm sure it won't do well in Scotland!
In Australia the Mondeo is a fairly obscure car. I have a friend with a new Mondeo so I have experience with this car. Personally I was surprised by this review holding it out as an equal to a Mercedes or BMW except for brand? I find the Sony stereo somewhat 90's with the cheap glossy plastics. The seats, dash display and steering wheel also feel cheap and unremarkable. Granted the ride and space is ok however no equal in my opinion. That said the Commodore is nothing to rave about either.
@Lostspirit221 thanks very much, we like you :)
nice little review. thanks :-)
BRILLIANT review
The Best ever
I liked the original Mondeo and the face lift (had one as a taxi). I really liked the look of the one before this version. This version, being the kinetic design, I don't like the look of. Talking about name change, Vauxhall did that with the Vectra and maybe he's right as the Mondeo name has been around for 20 years now. The top of the range one will cost 26000 pounds Sterling and the depreciation rate is alarming at 6000 in the first year alone! They don't hold their value. :(
@Smokerspack i'm sorry, i thought you said "the mondeo's been around a long time, way back with the Sierra and Cortina" i misheard you.
Wrong, the 2.0 203ps Powershift auto does 0-60 in 7.9. The 2.0 240ps on TXS trim does 0-60 in 7.5.
Cant hear you, to much cabin noise. Sony one of the best?
Is that 825,000 Rubles? Good choice of car, get a dash cam!
haha, love that comment!
Bob - just me and the wife: which do I go for value - the Mondeo or A5
Mine makes almost 1300km with one full tank.
I wish to get that mondeo in 2.2 TDCI engine but I'm waiting when my mk3 mondeo dies. I think before that happens they will put mk5 on the market. LOL. I love those cars...
I have one - love it,
premium car.....minus the costs!
johnny knoxville is that you?
As I have said before, please inform me of the buttons and knobs that you find overwhelming and excessive/pointless, and I will explain their purpose to you. There is nothing in a Mondeo that isn't usually needed... and if you don't need it, don't use it... simple. It's not just the Mondeo's wing mirrors, every car's wing mirrors can be decieving in making objects appear further than they are. Ford offers a blind spot information system to aid drivers knowing when a car is in your blind zone.
@seauryakumar Thanks very much!
In nz they only cost 54 thousand dollars.
Strangely you sound like a Ford marketing person :D
right now I'm board but...
Try putting your hands on the steering wheel when you're driving......
Didn't realise you can now pay in trees.
@paulmgn0037 In fairness to Mazda, they have voice control on the 6 too but a better spec Mazda 6 is about 3k cheaper!
All Mondeos had bluetooth from launch. The only *possible* exception might be the very entry level "Edge" models (rare) but Zetec upwards all have BT.
The Mondeo fails compared to the German stuff not just because of the name, but the interior quality and other small quality details. The facelift model tested has a much improved interior. Otherwise a fantastic car to drive and own!
terty tree toosand is a lot
now u can buy for 23 000 eu titanium , also u can buy for 16 000 but 1.6TDCi with 115hp :)
You can get once nowadays for around 4.5/5k
hahaahh yes
Mr.Mister yea the pre facelift empty house old trash.
I agree with you,
You can say Help and the car with list the commands out to you. The easy ones are "Dial Number" "Temperature" and "Radio" to control the radio station. I also found you an on line manual which is good fordmanuals (dot) org (forwardslash) page-3000
Haha, " i tink dis is a good car"
i got the the 2011 titananium s model and can only get around 300km a tank of fuel
+David H. There's something wrong with your car if you're only getting 300kms from a full tank. I take it that it's a diesel model?
The Air mass sensor was defect, it's fixed now and get about 600-700 in the city
Weird music from 7:33 to 9:06.
Bob your a gent cheers :-D
Oh 70mpg should be 70mph
subscribed
Didn't even say what motor is in it.
It's a diesel, there's only one diesel in Ford at this era and that's a 2.0ltr
Yes when he's talking about the fuel consumption he doesn't even say.