This project requires an outlet for the rising warm air to vent outside. Without a ridge vent it won't work properly. It is not that hard to add a ridge vent even to an old roof. Regarding the attic space, in this instance the attic space is 'conditioned'. Heated and cooled, not intended to be vented except for opening the windows for a nice breeze while I'm working up there. If it were an attic I would have insulated the top of the ceiling of the room below and let the attic be vented.
@ipaintclarksville tennessee1, I'm not expert at this by any means. But it seems like it would work. I would think basically anything you can do would work. The condensation happens when there's moisture in the air with direct contact to a cooler object. Like a cup of ice water. You would want to make sure that the air touching on the inside of the metal was the same as the air on the outside, for temperature reasons. But you may end up condensing right on the baffle of it's cooler than your inside. I would think a better thing to do for this is to place some insulation directly over the metal. Like putting one of those foam insulation sleeves over your can of cold soda. It will feel much warmer to your hands and it also won't condensate air moisture on the foam.
so many dumb commenters... this works. It's for an uncommon but sometimes necessary situation: insulating a roof that has no attic. I'm trying to do the same thing myself right now and am using a different system, but the idea is the same: if you insulate directly, you'll run into moisture issues. To overcome the moisture issues, you need airflow. He's created very good airflow here. End result? Insulated ceiling, mold-free. This is what you do.
A couple of additional pointers. Unless your garage is heated or otherwise conditioned, there is no call for insulating or even installing vent chutes. Moving on....if you install them where fiberglass is being installed in attic floor joists, they should extend about a foot above the installed height of the insulation. If insulating the whole rafter bay, they be installed from bottom to top and slightly overlap as they install continuing upward. You can bend them as done here but care should be taken so as to cover the wall top plate. You would also like to foam seal exterior top plates to stop warn air from reaching cold attic surfaces. THIS is the main condition that propagates mold. You could also use polyiso rigid board insulation above the exterior wall top plate to make a wind blocker between the rafters (under the vent chute) to prevent wind washing through the soffits into the permeable insulation. Hope this is helpful. Keith - BPI Certified Building Analyst.
Thank you for the great video! I'm insulating a workshop the same way and this video plus the comment below about sealing the top plate was exactly what I needed to see.
The purpose of the baffles is to allow insulation and airflow in the same cavity. If the rafter space is not ventilated, moisture can damage the rafters and the drywall. In my garage the attic is a living area so I am conditioning that area. If it was not a living area the baffles only need to go above the depth of the insulation.
I love your demonstration of how you installed your baffles.. very informative. I would add that according to the research I have done (which is extensive), we do not need to ventilate because of the danger of a hot roof. We need to ventilate because of moisture brought on my temperature extremes and a conditioned space. If you air condition a space condensation can occur like a glass of water on a cold day. Likewise in the winter you can also have the same impact when heating a room. If you do not vent the roof you will have problems with moisture. Moisture destroys roof from the sheathing side out, and it causes mold. I am in the process of researching how to insulate my tuff shed for a home office. I am going to create cathedral ceilings out of 2x4 rafters. I am going with 2 inch rigid foam sealed with spray foam. It has the highest R value per inch, and the space I have is limited. I may still install baffles, even though I am going to make sure that there is still 2 inches for ventilation. Another benefit of rigid foam is it has vapor barrier qualities.
Thank you Blair just what I needed to see. My bathroom is insulated up against the ceiling and it has spotting mold coming through the drywall every 2-3 years or so so I just bleach the ceiling and repaint with kilz to cover. i am think about opening up the soffitt as it has vinyl and wood on it with really no air flow to add baffles. I am going to try and just get one baffle in there without tearing out the ceiling. Probably not the best way but its not been bad YET. Of course will have to remove the soffitts and then add vented soffitt for the air and with the baffle if I can get it in there should be at least better but not ideal. Only the bathroom is the living area.
I used this in our home with a low pitch roof where I had little space for insulation and wanted it to breathe without blocking the air flow. Our place had NO venting or eaves and the entire roof rotted (decking and all). Talk about an abatement job. Surprisingly, it had survived this way since 1965. I had to add 4 roof vents in and drill holes between rafters for air flow. Now I can feel the heat rising out of the vents like crazy. This must also help keep the decking at outside temperature so that snow does not melt during winter.
Great video thanks so much. I feel confident doing this with your clear quick explanation of the objective. Perfect video to the point with real info, love it!
you dont need to goto the ridge with the baffles. at most two high. These are designed to keep the fiberglass or cellulose insulation from choking off the air at the soffut. the attic air needs to circulate and then exit through the ridge.
Perfect, thank you. The general contractor installed baffles from the soffits up towards the ridge vent, but only 6 feet. So the attic is the same temperature as the outside. This is a problem since the HVAC is in attic. I need to continue the baffles the ridge vent, then finish the insulation. Thanks again!
@HomeEnergyNow The fact is, you MUST use some type of barrier between heated living space and unheated attic or cavity space to prevent the build up of condensation. Vapor barrier/retarders work together with ventilation to protect roof decks from developing condensation that in turn causes roof rot. Keeping moisture vapor from permeating to the unheated space is the objective. Allowing it to hit the cold space will cause a problem over time. The video is correct.
This is a great idea, directing the air toward the ridge vent. It also seems that it would help to insulate in that the heat would more easily travel toward the ridge vent, then to radiate out into the attic.
I believe he is foaming the slopes from bottom of soffit (area where he folded the vent) all the way up to the rig vent location. he's using the horizontal trusses for storage, so he is on purpose leaving it wide open to the space below. there will be no flooring. he will fill gaps in vents etc. so foam does not leak inside.
I did not have the ability to attach the baffle on the exterior of the top plate. If I wanted to go all out I would have glued 2" piece of foam to the top of the plate first. The weak link is the edge of the top plate and where it would meet my ceiling. The attic is a conditioned space so moisture is not a problem, cooling the roof in order to make a hot roof 'not so hot' was the goal of the project. That room is wonderful to work in on a hot 80 degree day, and my roof is as cool as it can be.
I'm not an expert by any means but I would have started stapling foam baffles from the top ridge vent and worked my way down, overlapping, the baffles so any future leaks or condensation would be channeled down to the soffit vent area. Is this a good idea?
thats why you have ridge vents, you can also purchase vents that are thermistatically and humidistat on off tech, thats what removes it........ if you dont have air like above, it will shorten your shingle and roof life, looks like a great system to me,
If you're insulating both the under side of the roof, and the top side of you ceilings, you want the soffit baffles to carry air to the ridge vent. This is to keep the roof deck (underside of the shingles and plywood) to have ventilation for cooling the roof, removing moisture, and also to prevent ice damming in the winter.
Congradulations - by running the vents all the way up to the ridge vent, you've just about trapped all the hot (or cold) attic air in the attic (the baffle air is bypassing the attic air). And, that allows static, moist air to grow mold in the open attic spaces, defeating part of the purpose of attic venting.
These comments are crazy.. people aren't getting it.. this is a shop with no ceiling..so therefore it has no "attic space”. Think of it as a vaulted ceiling.. the shop has a controlled climate..all he is doing with the baffles is directing air from the soffit to the ridge vent, cooling his roof so his shingles are in warranty.. Geeze!!!!
I'm reading these comments and I'm just facepalming myself. Thinking WTF is wrong with these people that they can't understand this and what he's doing?
I took it a step further with mine, Instead of going back around with tape and foam, I took 9” x 24” strips of Reflectix and stapled them Into the corners of the soffit. Overkill yes. Awesome, definitely.
I live in the Southeast. We apply open cell spray foam directly to the roof deck and do not worry about baffles. There has been all kinds of testing to prove that this does not create a "hot" roof. The roof is already hot anyway. He makes comments about causing damage to the shingles. Well, science has since proven otherwise.
This seems to work for roofs that have venting along the whole edge of a soffit. My roof does not, but it has three 20" by 24" soffit vents along the underside of the soffit, so I think I need special baffles that surrond the soffit vents inside the attic.
@HomeEnergyNow How is the vapor barrier going to interfere with the ventilation? It's there to protect the insulation. And wood dose NOT need to breathe. That is just silly. Wood dose expand and contract with humidity though, even after it's been "sealed" with paint. Everything in this video is correct in my opinion.
Baffles like hes using can be replaced by just cutting 3 or 4 inch foam board in between the rafters and sealing with canned foam, leave at least a 1 inch air space between the roof decking. You also need a fire barrier at least 5/8 sheetrock with mold moister resistance. Fiberglass or cellulose will get moist and lose R-value in wet cold winter months. Foam is a better insulator.
@Lynnieburd for you to not have mod in your attic you need soffit vent to bring air in attic. Then ridge vent work best to bring hot air out of attic. B/c hot air rise.
Whether or not what he is doing is right or wrong depends on what he does next and his complete plan. We never hear what this is so we don't know. If he insulates the roof with spray foam, or if he uses batts and then installs air tight drywall over that, he'll be fine. If he just installs batts and leaves it as is, then it will be a disaster because he will get moisture and mold behind the batts. If he installs a poly or FSK air barrier over the batts that might work for a while, until the
Systems like this effectively change the "attic" to "conditioned" space - like the main floors of your home - with the usual hvac system controlling heating/cooling/humidity. Make sense now?
This method does not ventilate any attic airspace, If he packs the attic solid and gets a good air barrier, it should be good. He did however, miss taking the insulation over the double tip plate. The coldest wall area in the building is now where some of the warmest air is, the wall/ceiling joint. He may see the results of condensation in that area already. He should have tried to get the baffle downturn on the outside of the top plate. He is way ahead of most contractors though.
@Lynnieburd if you use 2 inch foam sheet (with foil is better) cut between 2 X 4 rafters and use canned foam to seal cracks (cut it in foam as tight as possible). this leaves you have a 1 1/2 inch space for air flow, put up at least 4 mil plastic and sheet over with 5/8 inch mold moister resistant sheet rock as a fire barrier. bigger rafters = thicker foam
So the baffles need to go up the entire length of the rafters to the ridge vent? Because some forums/videos are saying you just need baffles at the soffit to prevent insulation from blocking air flow into the soffit vents?
This is what’s called a hot roof and the area underneath is totally conditioned, so that’s why the baffles go all the way to the ridge. If this was a conventional attic where it is not conditioned, the baffles would simply run from the soffits where the air comes in up to above the ceiling line in the attic.
@@MrHardware1 Can I use baffles only at the soffit and then instead place air gaps under the batt insulation (as opposed to using baffles for the entire length of the rafters)?
@@riffdex If you’re going to drywall all the way to the ridge, baffles all the allow for insulation to be tight (but not too tight) and not worry about hindering airflow.
I've got an existing situation on a knee wall. any Idea how to do this when the drywall is already installed. My house is older and the original builder never had to do this. I'm trying to save time and money by not removing the drywall, removing the insulation, installing the vent, and then doing the work all over again. Thanks for any advice.
Sorry, there is only 3 1/2" of room plus a vent to insulate. I think a foaming company would charge more that pulling down the drywall, adding a 2x4 to the bottom of the existing rafter so at least 6'' of insulation exists.
hi, I don't have no ridge vent (I got gable vents). yet I want to add batt insulation to rafters. any tips? also how do I finish the vapor barrier? oh and do I run the baffles to the top? or almost to the top?
The idea of ridge vents is that hot air rises. Cold air comes in through the soffits and replaces the hot air in the attic that rises and vents. You got it backwards.
There is confusion about this installation because he didn't clearly explain the difference between insulating and venting an attic space and what he is doing, which is insulating and venting a roof. In a traditional attic the purpose of insulation is to insulate the ceiling and to ensure the air flow from the soffits keeps the attic space close to the temperature as outside.
I've always overlapped the durovent by one notch so any moisture that might accumulate will run down to the soffit and not drip through the durovent...
This a garage where he apparently wants work or whatever year round and store things that he doesn't want exposed to the outside air. Not the same as a regular house attic. I had an uninsulated attic with soffit vents and a ridge vent. Things stored up there got all dirty from windy days that blew dirt through the ridge vents screens. I didn't want to cover everything stored up there in plastic so I baffled, insulated and vapor barriered and thermal barriered the rafters. Space is now less hot in the summer than before and warmer in the winter than before plus no dirt coming in and the roof is cool all year round as it should be. Having white shingles helps also. The rooms below the attic were then more comfortable also. He is doing this correctly. He wants to store things on top of the ceiling joists that don't do well in wide variations of temps or outside air exposure.. That is why he is doing it this way.
I also have an uninsulated attic with soffit vents ridge vent. I really want to insulate it, and do it myself to save the cash. Do you recommend the following method? 1. Install baffles 2. Install radiant barrier 3. Install insulation 4. Install walls/ceiling New to this but want to add a large living area in our spacious and currently over crowded attic, but it gets hot as hell in the summer and very cold in the winter currently.
@@jeremytschudy1367 If you want to use the attic as a living area the method you see is what I feel is the best way if you are going for a vaulted ceiling, open all the way to the ridge. If you are going to build knee walls and put in a ceiling, or either one, the insulation belongs against the heated area. The roof only needs to be insulated where drywall will be attached, because the knee-walls should be insulated and so will the ceiling if you are going to make a flat ceiling. Remember, insulation goes against the heated wall, not against a roof in a non-heated area.
Great video and instruction! I however have a situation thats throwing me off about what to do. I'm going to insulate my garage and my roof rafters. I have an open cathedral ceiling with a ridge vent. However, one side of the roof has a soffit and the other does not. The ridge beam completely divides the roof in 2 sections. Its not even possible to overlap at the peak because of the beam dividing both sides. To do this on the soffit side up to the ridge beam at the ridge vent. Seems pretty basic and easy.. would still do this on the other half of the roof? Attaching to the top plate running up the plywood to the ridge beam where the ridge vent is? There is no soffit on that side for any air flow to run up that and out the ridge vent.
There are ways to vent behind the gutter by putting half of a rigid ridge vent there and reinstalling the gutter, drilling holes in the facia so air can come into the ridge vent from behind the gutter and up in the holes. Pretty extensive job for a garage, there is also a wedge vent if you’re re-shingling. It gets installed from the gutter up 2 feet and it’s vented on the end and lets air into the attic, also pretty extensive for a garage. If you could pull off the ridge vent you could take and cut slats or drill holes to allow there to go through the ridge vent which would allow some of the warm air on the unvented side out.
@@blairgilbert7606 thank you for all that information! I did see a video of a wedge vent installation. Unfortunately I just had my roof reshingled 12 yrs ago. That probably was my only option that I'm seeing. Unless taking off the ridge vent like you mentioned and putting holes or slats, but not something I would want to do my self. This unvented side of the roof also has no overhang. Reason I'm wanting to insulate is because I live in NJ and it can get freezing in there. I'm turning my garage into a home gym. Besides for warmth I want to control the climate as much as I can in there so my equipment doesn't get ruined over time. I already purchased a comfort zone cz230er heater for my garage to warm it. Another option I guess I may have to go with is having ceiling joists installed by a contractor. For a traditional flat drywall ceiling with insulation Batts between the joists. There are only 4 ceiling joists up (22' long) from the original build, which i dont get? For the time being I may just insulate and purple board my walls only. Leaving the cathedral ceiling exposed. I will just turn my heater on about 20 minutes or so before I'm in there to get it comfortable. I know the heat is going to escape through the roof since there's no insulation, but it'll just run for the couple hours i spend in there to keep it comfortable for this winter. Hopefully by Spring/early summer I'll have enough put away to afford getting this taken care of.
Would this be a good idea to insulate a garage with no ceiling drywall? My garage gets really cold and hot sl it makes it hard for me to work on my projects. I'm going to insulate the walls but K was wondering what to do about the roof.
Thanks for the video. It has helped me understand more. Meanwhile, my structure is an 8x12 properly shingled wood-roof shed in Toronto Canada. I added 4" pink batts and then a poly-vapour barrier. It's been fine all winter. But now in mid-April, after a couple of sunny days, some of the roof panels began to sweat. I have Soffits on the outside corners only (2' x 8' in each corner, not all the way across, which I could change if needed) and opposing 8"x6" vents in the two sidewalls, but there is no Ridge vent. In your opinion is it worth installing baffles above my 4" batts? Will this solve the condensation problem even with no Ridge Vents. If not, can you make any suggestions or even point me to a URL for more assistance? Cheers, Alan
The air enters from the soffit, (the overhang at the base of my roof. It gets heated from the sun, it rises up and out the ridge vent at the top of the roof. The baffles allow me to insulate tight to the roof while allowing air to flow up and out the top. Mr. Hardware
Thank you for the video, I'm planning on doing this for my parents house (some time in the future) and having a video to show them will be a great help in explaining. One thing you mentioned was the vapor. I know it needed to be added, but I'm not sure where it goes... Does the barrier go over this material and then the insulation last or insulation and then vapor barrier?
Am sorry said this but. The 1st baffle vent. Are Instal Incorrect. And the Union bet twin Sims are incorrect. To. You need put all straigh out the vent. 5 to 7 inch out. And block the top plate whit R19 Batt Insulation fiber glass or kraft Batt Insulation. Air seal whit foam Insulation any penetrations....! Plus aded R19x24 Batt Insulation fiber glass and vapor Barrier poly 4 mil or 6 mil. And taping any cut or gape in the barrier's. 😉👍
Thank God Zudoan isnt an insulation contractor. This IS the proper method. He will not have a traditional attic. The baffles and subsequent insulation will be the 'attic'. his rafters will be used as storage with no ceiling - thus providing plenty of breathing and movement of air to prevent mold, etc. And he is still letting his roof sheeting and shingles breathe. I just hope he puts insulation over the vertical part of the baffles, otherwise is will be a cold zone for moisture build up.
nrgsaver, obviously ridge vents are not meant to be used without soffit vents or gable vents. A ridge vent alone will never be sufficient without proper air flow from the other vents. Now that you have airflow from below/side, air will flow upwards into and through the ridge vent. This is the whole reason why this guy is putting in baffles.
Why are you running those vents all the way up to your ridge vent? If you are only insulating the first 20" from the bottom of your truss there is no need to go all the way to the top with you vents/baffles.
Dude, It is my wood shop. It is conditioned. I store stuff in the trusses, they are heated/cooled, the same temp as my house. The insulation is the top of my area that I work/live in. Watch baffles part 2
these baffles are allowing us to insulate as close to the roof as possible, to achieve the most r-value and allow air to flow from the sofits up to the ridge vent. In the second video I show the insulation installed.
surprised someone hasn't mentioned this yet. if you overlap the baffles the other way ie top to bottom, then if the roof leaks or has condensation on the nails the water will run down to the soffit. Also, shouldn't the soffit have the baffle run into it so it will drip to the soffit and not the the top of the wall? I know you will seal everything and it has probably been good but just an observation.....
+spudth Well said, with proper ventilation there should not be any condensation, but why not prepare for the worst? What about when the roof fails? Thanks Blair
spudth install from soffit up, because it follows the airflows-up through the soffit and to the ridge vent. This is the most efficient overlap for this air direction.
@ivcruiser He doesn't have it all wrong. Believe it or not, this is a very effective way to insulate the attic without using fiber blankets. The key for insulation to work is to keep the roof as hot/cold as possible by providing an air space. The only thing I would add to what he is doing is to staple fiber batts over the vent baffles he already has. Remember that his aim is to use that attic truss space. This method is especially useful if using spray-on insulation - Architect of 14 years
I have an interesting situation. Inside a 1933 cape cod house, Im preparing to replace the plaster and cork board in the upstairs room (kneewalls to roof deck) with drywall. I have what looks like a 2x4 rafter system. Last year I paid to have fascia vents (no soffits) , and ridge vents installed on 3/4 of my roof.I currently have no insulation whatsoever either on the ceiling or walls of my upstairs room.My plan is to run foam vent channels from the fascia vents to the ridge vents, canned spray foam any gaps. Then install a radiant barrier ontop of the foam vents, then install faced r-11 or r-13 batts on top of that. What do you say to that?I know its not ideal, but it's better than no insulation right?The only other issue will be moving my ceiling mounted AC trunks to the subfloor and installing AC floor vents instead.
+Jake Schrier Jake, you want the insulation to be against the heated area. So I install baffles at the base of the roof so my insulation can be on the ceiling of the room below. Then up the walls to the baffles you install from the lower attic area, up the angled ceiling and ending in the upper attic. I would add 2 x 4's to the bottom of the angled ceiling so I could get more insulation in the intermediate area. Then put 12" above the center ceiling area. This way both attic areas are ventilated.
Has said it is a conditioned space. Meaning heating and cooling like the rest of the house. The insulation keeps the room warm in winter and cool in summer. The baffles with soffit vents and a ridge vent keep the roof cool all year round. Having outside air circulation to the conditioned space would be like having your living room windows open all year round.
Shouldn't the foam baffles be overlapped, so any condensation runs down the baffles an out to the eves versus; versus end butted together where the water would drip into the insullation?
I cut about a 10 inch piece of the baffling and taped it across the ridge and then used aerosol foam as a tack welder to fill all my voids and glue it into place.
Do I need to get these installed in my Tuff Shed?? Before I get the ceilings insulated??..There are no vents inside..I was told not to get any vents if I planned on insulating...PLEASE HELP...
My best wish for an insulated building is to have vents at the gutters ( the area at the base of the roof) and a ridge vent to let warm, moist air flow up and out. Send me an email of your print or something showing the roof and the outside wall and I'll send my idea back. blair@mrhardware.com
Those are staples from my hammer stapler. Once the insulation was blown in using reinforced plastic stapled over the rafters to contain it, the baffles won’t be able to move
I can't believe how bad of a job you've done here. You have no insulation on top of your wall plate. If you're in a northern climate, you'll get frost on the upper corners of your rooms. Run baffle out past wall, and shove fiberglass insulation between baffle and top off wall. You only do the folding method to the outside edge of the wall(not inside) , but only if you have a taller truss heel height. And you don't run the baffle all the way to the ridge vent, otherwise you get no air circulation in the attic space, and you could have moisture issues.
You do realize that he's keeping the attic space exposed, right? That way - he can keep it open to put things in the rafters. After he does this, he's putting insulation on top of what he just stapled up there. I can see what you mean about putting the baffle past the wall plate...
ok. it is a great think . what about the hot air between the ceiling and the baffles? where it wit go if you got your baffles all the way to the ridge vent?I thought you supposed to run the baffles only in the area where the insulation will be so it doesn't block the air flow?
Usually the soffit is continuous so one vent feeds multiple rafter spaces. I have had to install more but smaller vents in one job w separate rafter spaces
He did it wrong. The folded part of the vent NEEDS TO EXTEND TO EXTERIOR SIDE OF WALL PLATE. Inslation needs to cover whole top plate...otherwise you have a cold corner. I live in BC Canada and his job would fail inspection. Rooky mistake.
Hey MR. Hardware, I have the same setup on an pine 8x12 shed roof, in Toronto Canada. Only I don't have a ridge vent. Would you still install the baffles to the roof peak even with out the ridge vent everything under the vapor barrier is well vented, but when I had my batting straight up on the roof with no baffles, it began to sweat. Any advice is welcomed.
Thanks for sharing your video. I want to add faced batt to my old garage ceiling as you show, but I have no ridge vent or soffit vents. All of those spaces are closed off. I only plan to heat the space for hobby woodworking for several hours a week through the winter months with an electric heater or maybe wood stove. Would you recommend adding these vents, going with a different insulating material, or something else entirely?
I think you should install a ridge vent so the air can come from the vents to the ridge vent. Then insulate below the baffles with anything, fiberglass or blown-in with reinforced plastic stapled to the bottom of the rafters or foam, the best. you need to capture the air from the soffits and prevent it from taking heated air from the shop.
Blair Gilbert Blair Gilbert I think you missed the point he made. I have the same problem situation in my garage. They shut the soffet vent with wood so there is no venting at all. the top of the roof is also blocked with wood so there is no way to add a ridge vent unless I tear all the wood out. The thing is I am not using AC and only minimal heating using space heaters sometimes. Otherwise the only conditioning is what is leaking through from the house. I park my electric car in the garage in the winter which helps with the range. Adding the insulation to the walls seemed to make a difference. If the garage is minimally heated in the winter do you think adding a layer of insulation boards on the studs would cause and mold problems or overheating during the summer? If I just left the bottom and top open allowing it to vent on the inside of the garage will that defeat the purpose since there is no air barrier? If the soffit and ridge venting is not an option is there anything simple that would work without causing a problem with mimimally conditioned spaces?
If you are using electric space heaters there won't be a lot of warm MOIST air rising to the roof, (gas space heaters create a lot of moisture) and getting trapped between the insulation and the cold roof. Moist air penetrates the insulation and contacts the ice cold roof and BOOM, you have condensation. I have used 2 layers of plastic (visquene) stapled to the bottoms of the ceiling joists to create a semi thermal barrier to retain heat. That way you won't be heating the attic area above.
Many things, your porch could be on a slab and of course concrete it’s always cold. Your porch may be over a crawlspace that’s not connected to the basement hence it has no warm air underneath it so it’s cold. You’ll have to let me know the construction as to how to cure the problem.
@@MrHardware1 you are right the porch is not connected to a basement and its an open crawlspace i now have very little fiberglass insulation i need to know what else i can use.
@@jacquelinepierre4699 Either you get underneath the area and insulate it with fiberglass and then put a protective sheeting on the bottom of the joist to keep animals out of there. Or you seal the perimeter of the crawlspace and you connected to the basement so warm air from the basement can get into that area and it won’t escape because you insulated the exterior of the crawlspace.
//Systems like this effectively change the "attic" to "conditioned" space - like the main floors of your home - with the usual hvac system controlling heating/cooling/humidity. Make sense now?// No they don't! This is not a conditioned attic. A conditioned attic is one that stays largely within the same temperature of the house. His fiberglass attic will largely stay in the range of the outside air. Conditioned attics are high efficiency systems designed to save massive amounts of money on heating and cooling. Their drawback is they are more expensive initially to install.
Doesnt putting baffles from the soffit all the way up to the ridge defeat the purpose of trying to aerate the attic? Wouldnt the air flow just flow from the soffit up to the ridge or vice versa and not aerate the attic space?
+Marcus Skaggs - This isn't a typical installation and I would not do this in any space that you intend to live in. That being said, this works fine for a shop or garage PROVIDED EVERY space between trusses has its own vents in the soffit and the ridge... which it looks like Gilbert has. He can squeeze some R-15 or R-19 (it looks like the top cord is 2x6- if your top cord is 2x4 you'll only get about R-11 or R-13 max) craft-faced batts up against the foam baffles and bypass the hot air past the attic. He may lose some R-value from his batts as the will be slightly compressed due to the space occupied by the baffles (about 1.5"). If one were to insulate on the ceiling around the bottom cord of the trusses, you can add a lot more R-Value (for my area the recommendation is R-38). I don't know how he could reasonably do more than about R-19 with his method. I would not seal the foam baffles with tape and spray foam as he describes. The batts need a little flowing air to dissipate humidity that may build in the insulation. I would also check with the shingle company to make sure this method doesn't still constitute a "hot roof" (his words) and void your warranty. Although this method does allow air flow, it is less airflow than a traditional install. I concocted basically the same plan to insulate my shop and was just looking around RUclips to see if anyone else has done it when I found your comment. There are two additional things I plan on doing. I will crown-staple 1x2s perpendicularly to the batts to support them from the underside. My Dad insulated his shop against the roof (the baffles didn't exist when he did his years ago, there are no roof vents, and mostly it insulates just fine in are arid region) with stapled craft-face batts and the batts began falling down over time. The other thing I plan to do (although its pretty low priority) is cover the exposed side of the insulation (the part I can see when I'm standing in the shop) with Atticfoil (google it) to protect the craft-face from snags and rips. It's not a vapor barrier (which I don't need) and it's very durable. I heat my shop with radiant heaters so there should be some benefit there.
+Marcus Skaggs That is the point, I'm using the attic area to work. It is not a non conditioned area. I'm living there, 'sort of'. If it was an attic over a heater area I would only insulate against the heated area.
+sblizzy It's not about saving the roof, it is letting the roof vent while keeping the room below warm or cool depending on the season. Several layers may have been all I needed for a garage, cuz it would have helped keep the heat from the summer sun from baking me in the garage.
You mentioned taping the cut marks, and caulking.. Any chance of an expanded example? What kind of tape, and specifically how you'd do both? My concern is a drafty edge on the wall side after insulation is in place.
@@MrHardware1 How can you be sure that the crack filler doesn't expand upwards and block the venting channels that the durovent is intended to create? Also what tape do you use?
@@davidlaplant4201 don’t use tons of foam when filling cracks, a little bonds like a lot. I recommend Gorilla tape for anything you don’t want to disassemble later.
The 22 1/2 inch ones are for trusses, you can buy them in 14 1/4 inches for conventional rafters. One does one and one does the other, they are not universal.
@Mr. Hardware, What would happen if the air beneath is conditioned in the winter, and the baffle is cold to the touch. Wouldn't that create condensation because of the warm conditioned moisture air touching the cold baffle?
Awesome video! I'm about to tackle this, this weekend. What rated insulation did you go with for the roof walls? I live in MN, and the recommended R is at least 30. I can't seem to find the right insulation that can fit a 2x4 roof and is 24 inches wide.
I'm looking at doing the same thing for my garage. Are you rafters 2" x 6" and if so did you use R19 insulation? My garage has 2"x 6"s and I would like to install R19 instead of R15 if I can still maintain good air flow with the foam baffles.
+Ryan Rumelhart Ryan, I installed reinforced plastic under my 2x6 top cord trusses with a 1" crown stapler and filled the cavity with blow-in cellulose. I would do it again w/the most cost efficient product because it is a garage. My house is insulated with spray foam, and here in Michigan my January bill to heat 2,000 to 69 degrees is $110 a month. That is where my money is.
What do you do if you are insulating a small pitch area on a garage space (where there is no living area above) and there is no ridge vent in place at the top?
Foam insulation sprayed directly to the bottom of the roof plywood is the best way. Celluose or fiberglass can hold moisture and cause rot... This is a tough call because conditions vary greatly. I use a vent installed where the roof contacts the building, like a half-ridge vent to do it the best way.
Only if you want a cool roof. The baffles allow air to carry the heat up and away from the roof. Many shingle mfgrs allow for direct foam but the roof will get hotter. I'm trying to keep my shop cool so I am a baffle guy.
I have a 14x36 shed with a loft on both ends , I am finishing it out myself , I did not add baffles , I just stapled insulation up , do I now need to back track and remove the insulation to add baffles ? the shed will be air conditioned in summer and heated in winter , cause I plan on living in it as soon as im done , if ever .. :)
1-What happens if you leave the roof attic with only baffles but the attic floor with extra full insulation only 2-What happens if you only insulate the roof without baffles sorry I might of had missed these questions
If I don't have a rudge vent in my garage but just 2 each 8" round roof vents about 3 feet from the ridge top, will this baffles with face 3" batting insulation be effective?
You can’t insulate all the way to the ridge w out a ridge vent. As is only the 2 rafter spaces will be vented if insulation and baffles run all the way up.
@@MrHardware1 Thanks. I double checked the 2 roof vents and thier actually 1 foot below the roof pitch. If I install all the baffles and faced batting insulation between all 12 joists just short of those 2 vents will this still be effective at offering better warmth in the winter months and cool in summer?
This project requires an outlet for the rising warm air to vent outside. Without a ridge vent it won't work properly. It is not that hard to add a ridge vent even to an old roof.
Regarding the attic space, in this instance the attic space is 'conditioned'. Heated and cooled, not intended to be vented except for opening the windows for a nice breeze while I'm working up there.
If it were an attic I would have insulated the top of the ceiling of the room below and let the attic be vented.
Mr. Hardware you should get can foam and foam around the edges where the baffle is in the soffit area.
I have a shop with a metal roof in which some of it is exposed underneath (no deck) Would this system work and keep it from condensing?
@Shang Tsung You weren't listening to him. He said @ 1:07 that he was going to use some tape and foam to caulk the joints.
@ipaintclarksville tennessee1, I'm not expert at this by any means. But it seems like it would work. I would think basically anything you can do would work. The condensation happens when there's moisture in the air with direct contact to a cooler object. Like a cup of ice water. You would want to make sure that the air touching on the inside of the metal was the same as the air on the outside, for temperature reasons. But you may end up condensing right on the baffle of it's cooler than your inside. I would think a better thing to do for this is to place some insulation directly over the metal. Like putting one of those foam insulation sleeves over your can of cold soda. It will feel much warmer to your hands and it also won't condensate air moisture on the foam.
I have a whirly fan
so many dumb commenters... this works. It's for an uncommon but sometimes necessary situation: insulating a roof that has no attic. I'm trying to do the same thing myself right now and am using a different system, but the idea is the same: if you insulate directly, you'll run into moisture issues. To overcome the moisture issues, you need airflow. He's created very good airflow here. End result? Insulated ceiling, mold-free. This is what you do.
A couple of additional pointers. Unless your garage is heated or otherwise conditioned, there is no call for insulating or even installing vent chutes. Moving on....if you install them where fiberglass is being installed in attic floor joists, they should extend about a foot above the installed height of the insulation. If insulating the whole rafter bay, they be installed from bottom to top and slightly overlap as they install continuing upward. You can bend them as done here but care should be taken so as to cover the wall top plate. You would also like to foam seal exterior top plates to stop warn air from reaching cold attic surfaces. THIS is the main condition that propagates mold. You could also use polyiso rigid board insulation above the exterior wall top plate to make a wind blocker between the rafters (under the vent chute) to prevent wind washing through the soffits into the permeable insulation. Hope this is helpful. Keith - BPI Certified Building Analyst.
Thank you for the great video! I'm insulating a workshop the same way and this video plus the comment below about sealing the top plate was exactly what I needed to see.
It was over 80 degrees the other day and the shop was cooler than outside.
The purpose of the baffles is to allow insulation and airflow in the same cavity. If the rafter space is not ventilated, moisture can damage the rafters and the drywall. In my garage the attic is a living area so I am conditioning that area. If it was not a living area the baffles only need to go above the depth of the insulation.
Great explanation. I wondered
I love your demonstration of how you installed your baffles.. very informative. I would add that according to the research I have done (which is extensive), we do not need to ventilate because of the danger of a hot roof. We need to ventilate because of moisture brought on my temperature extremes and a conditioned space. If you air condition a space condensation can occur like a glass of water on a cold day. Likewise in the winter you can also have the same impact when heating a room. If you do not vent the roof you will have problems with moisture. Moisture destroys roof from the sheathing side out, and it causes mold.
I am in the process of researching how to insulate my tuff shed for a home office. I am going to create cathedral ceilings out of 2x4 rafters. I am going with 2 inch rigid foam sealed with spray foam. It has the highest R value per inch, and the space I have is limited. I may still install baffles, even though I am going to make sure that there is still 2 inches for ventilation. Another benefit of rigid foam is it has vapor barrier qualities.
Thank you Blair just what I needed to see. My bathroom is insulated up against the ceiling and it has spotting mold coming through the drywall every 2-3 years or so so I just bleach the ceiling and repaint with kilz to cover. i am think about opening up the soffitt as it has vinyl and wood on it with really no air flow to add baffles. I am going to try and just get one baffle in there without tearing out the ceiling. Probably not the best way but its not been bad YET. Of course will have to remove the soffitts and then add vented soffitt for the air and with the baffle if I can get it in there should be at least better but not ideal. Only the bathroom is the living area.
any air flow you can get above the insulation is a plus
I used this in our home with a low pitch roof where I had little space for insulation and wanted it to breathe without blocking the air flow. Our place had NO venting or eaves and the entire roof rotted (decking and all). Talk about an abatement job. Surprisingly, it had survived this way since 1965.
I had to add 4 roof vents in and drill holes between rafters for air flow. Now I can feel the heat rising out of the vents like crazy. This must also help keep the decking at outside temperature so that snow does not melt during winter.
Finally a clear explanation! Great job
Great video thanks so much. I feel confident doing this with your clear quick explanation of the objective. Perfect video to the point with real info, love it!
I love this guy! He knows his stuff!
you dont need to goto the ridge with the baffles. at most two high. These are designed to keep the fiberglass or cellulose insulation from choking off the air at the soffut. the attic air needs to circulate and then exit through the ridge.
Perfect, thank you.
The general contractor installed baffles from the soffits up towards the ridge vent, but only 6 feet. So the attic is the same temperature as the outside. This is a problem since the HVAC is in attic. I need to continue the baffles the ridge vent, then finish the insulation.
Thanks again!
You attic should be sanectemp or you'll get heat loss, then water damming when it freezes over the cold overhang.
Thank you! I’ve searched for this for SO long!!!
@HomeEnergyNow The fact is, you MUST use some type of barrier between heated living space and unheated attic or cavity space to prevent the build up of condensation.
Vapor barrier/retarders work together with ventilation to protect roof decks from developing condensation that in turn causes roof rot. Keeping moisture vapor from permeating to the unheated space is the objective. Allowing it to hit the cold space will cause a problem over time.
The video is correct.
Theres a cold spot above the top plates now. Not good. You should hang the baffles part top plates then stuff insulation in the void.
This is a great idea, directing the air toward the ridge vent. It also seems that it would help to insulate in that the heat would more easily travel toward the ridge vent, then to radiate out into the attic.
I believe he is foaming the slopes from bottom of soffit (area where he folded the vent) all the way up to the rig vent location. he's using the horizontal trusses for storage, so he is on purpose leaving it wide open to the space below. there will be no flooring. he will fill gaps in vents etc. so foam does not leak inside.
I did not have the ability to attach the baffle on the exterior of the top plate. If I wanted to go all out I would have glued 2" piece of foam to the top of the plate first. The weak link is the edge of the top plate and where it would meet my ceiling. The attic is a conditioned space so moisture is not a problem, cooling the roof in order to make a hot roof 'not so hot' was the goal of the project. That room is wonderful to work in on a hot 80 degree day, and my roof is as cool as it can be.
LOL. "...hot 80 degree day". I live in central Texas, 80 degrees is a rare cool day. Eighty degrees is open every window in the house day.
I'm not an expert by any means but I would have started stapling foam baffles from the top ridge vent and worked my way down, overlapping, the baffles so any future leaks or condensation would be channeled down to the soffit vent area. Is this a good idea?
thats why you have ridge vents, you can also purchase vents that are thermistatically and humidistat on off tech, thats what removes it........ if you dont have air like above, it will shorten your shingle and roof life, looks like a great system to me,
If you're insulating both the under side of the roof, and the top side of you ceilings, you want the soffit baffles to carry air to the ridge vent. This is to keep the roof deck (underside of the shingles and plywood) to have ventilation for cooling the roof, removing moisture, and also to prevent ice damming in the winter.
Congradulations - by running the vents all the way up to the ridge vent, you've just about trapped all the hot (or cold) attic air in the attic (the baffle air is bypassing the attic air). And, that allows static, moist air to grow mold in the open attic spaces, defeating part of the purpose of attic venting.
You are missing that it is a conditioned space, not an attic.
These comments are crazy.. people aren't getting it.. this is a shop with no ceiling..so therefore it has no "attic space”. Think of it as a vaulted ceiling.. the shop has a controlled climate..all he is doing with the baffles is directing air from the soffit to the ridge vent, cooling his roof so his shingles are in warranty.. Geeze!!!!
It seems simple to me, thanks David.
@@MrHardware1 I didn't understand why you were doing, what you were doing either, until I read David Jessee's comment. I now understand. All good.
I'm reading these comments and I'm just facepalming myself. Thinking WTF is wrong with these people that they can't understand this and what he's doing?
I'm opting for the baffels only as high as the insulation on the floor and using the foil from that point up to the ridge.
I took it a step further with mine, Instead of going back around with tape and foam, I took 9” x 24” strips of Reflectix and stapled them
Into the corners of the soffit. Overkill yes. Awesome, definitely.
I live in the Southeast. We apply open cell spray foam directly to the roof deck and do not worry about baffles. There has been all kinds of testing to prove that this does not create a "hot" roof. The roof is already hot anyway. He makes comments about causing damage to the shingles. Well, science has since proven otherwise.
This seems to work for roofs that have venting along the whole edge of a soffit. My roof does not, but it has three 20" by 24" soffit vents along the underside of the soffit, so I think I need special baffles that surrond the soffit vents inside the attic.
I bet the soffit area is continuous between the vents, once past the top plate the baffles will do their job.
@HomeEnergyNow How is the vapor barrier going to interfere with the ventilation?
It's there to protect the insulation. And wood dose NOT need to breathe. That is just silly. Wood dose expand and contract with humidity though, even after it's been "sealed" with paint. Everything in this video is correct in my opinion.
Baffles like hes using can be replaced by just cutting 3 or 4 inch foam board in between the rafters and sealing with canned foam, leave at least a 1 inch air space between the roof decking. You also need a fire barrier at least 5/8 sheetrock with mold moister resistance. Fiberglass or cellulose will get moist and lose R-value in wet cold winter months. Foam is a better insulator.
@Lynnieburd for you to not have mod in your attic you need soffit vent to bring air in attic. Then ridge vent work best to bring hot air out of attic. B/c hot air rise.
Whether or not what he is doing is right or wrong depends on what he does next and his complete plan. We never hear what this is so we don't know. If he insulates the roof with spray foam, or if he uses batts and then installs air tight drywall over that, he'll be fine. If he just installs batts and leaves it as is, then it will be a disaster because he will get moisture and mold behind the batts. If he installs a poly or FSK air barrier over the batts that might work for a while, until the
Systems like this effectively change the "attic" to "conditioned" space - like the main floors of your home - with the usual hvac system controlling heating/cooling/humidity. Make sense now?
This method does not ventilate any attic airspace, If he packs the attic solid and gets a good air barrier, it should be good. He did however, miss taking the insulation over the double tip plate. The coldest wall area in the building is now where some of the warmest air is, the wall/ceiling joint. He may see the results of condensation in that area already. He should have tried to get the baffle downturn on the outside of the top plate. He is way ahead of most contractors though.
@Lynnieburd if you use 2 inch foam sheet (with foil is better) cut between 2 X 4 rafters and use canned foam to seal cracks (cut it in foam as tight as possible). this leaves you have a 1 1/2 inch space for air flow, put up at least 4 mil plastic and sheet over with 5/8 inch mold moister resistant sheet rock as a fire barrier. bigger rafters = thicker foam
Ok great. However now you will have no batt over the top plate, which could cause condensation
I would have except I'm foaming the walls which will insulate the top plate from below, good point. Thanks
So the baffles need to go up the entire length of the rafters to the ridge vent? Because some forums/videos are saying you just need baffles at the soffit to prevent insulation from blocking air flow into the soffit vents?
This is what’s called a hot roof and the area underneath is totally conditioned, so that’s why the baffles go all the way to the ridge. If this was a conventional attic where it is not conditioned, the baffles would simply run from the soffits where the air comes in up to above the ceiling line in the attic.
@@MrHardware1 Can I use baffles only at the soffit and then instead place air gaps under the batt insulation (as opposed to using baffles for the entire length of the rafters)?
@@riffdex If you’re going to drywall all the way to the ridge, baffles all the allow for insulation to be tight (but not too tight) and not worry about hindering airflow.
I've got an existing situation on a knee wall. any Idea how to do this when the drywall is already installed. My house is older and the original builder never had to do this. I'm trying to save time and money by not removing the drywall, removing the insulation, installing the vent, and then doing the work all over again. Thanks for any advice.
Sorry, there is only 3 1/2" of room plus a vent to insulate. I think a foaming company would charge more that pulling down the drywall, adding a 2x4 to the bottom of the existing rafter so at least 6'' of insulation exists.
hi, I don't have no ridge vent (I got gable vents). yet I want to add batt insulation to rafters. any tips? also how do I finish the vapor barrier? oh and do I run the baffles to the top? or almost to the top?
Did you ever find an answer? I’m looking to do the same.
The idea of ridge vents is that hot air rises. Cold air comes in through the soffits and replaces the hot air in the attic that rises and vents. You got it backwards.
There is confusion about this installation because he didn't clearly explain the difference between insulating and venting an attic space and what he is doing, which is insulating and venting a roof. In a traditional attic the purpose of insulation is to insulate the ceiling and to ensure the air flow from the soffits keeps the attic space close to the temperature as outside.
Look at all the comments. He is right, he is wrong, he almost has it right etc. Funny, no one agrees...
I've always overlapped the durovent by one notch so any moisture that might accumulate will run down to the soffit and not drip through the durovent...
This a garage where he apparently wants work or whatever year round and store things that he doesn't want exposed to the outside air. Not the same as a regular house attic. I had an uninsulated attic with soffit vents and a ridge vent. Things stored up there got all dirty from windy days that blew dirt through the ridge vents screens. I didn't want to cover everything stored up there in plastic so I baffled, insulated and vapor barriered and thermal barriered the rafters. Space is now less hot in the summer than before and warmer in the winter than before plus no dirt coming in and the roof is cool all year round as it should be. Having white shingles helps also. The rooms below the attic were then more comfortable also. He is doing this correctly. He wants to store things on top of the ceiling joists that don't do well in wide variations of temps or outside air exposure.. That is why he is doing it this way.
It is great on 80 plus days where it can be stifling hot on the second floor. So true about being cleaner AND quieter.
I also have an uninsulated attic with soffit vents ridge vent. I really want to insulate it, and do it myself to save the cash. Do you recommend the following method?
1. Install baffles
2. Install radiant barrier
3. Install insulation
4. Install walls/ceiling
New to this but want to add a large living area in our spacious and currently over crowded attic, but it gets hot as hell in the summer and very cold in the winter currently.
@@jeremytschudy1367 If you want to use the attic as a living area the method you see is what I feel is the best way if you are going for a vaulted ceiling, open all the way to the ridge. If you are going to build knee walls and put in a ceiling, or either one, the insulation belongs against the heated area. The roof only needs to be insulated where drywall will be attached, because the knee-walls should be insulated and so will the ceiling if you are going to make a flat ceiling.
Remember, insulation goes against the heated wall, not against a roof in a non-heated area.
Great video and instruction! I however have a situation thats throwing me off about what to do. I'm going to insulate my garage and my roof rafters. I have an open cathedral ceiling with a ridge vent. However, one side of the roof has a soffit and the other does not. The ridge beam completely divides the roof in 2 sections. Its not even possible to overlap at the peak because of the beam dividing both sides. To do this on the soffit side up to the ridge beam at the ridge vent. Seems pretty basic and easy.. would still do this on the other half of the roof? Attaching to the top plate running up the plywood to the ridge beam where the ridge vent is? There is no soffit on that side for any air flow to run up that and out the ridge vent.
There are ways to vent behind the gutter by putting half of a rigid ridge vent there and reinstalling the gutter, drilling holes in the facia so air can come into the ridge vent from behind the gutter and up in the holes. Pretty extensive job for a garage, there is also a wedge vent if you’re re-shingling. It gets installed from the gutter up 2 feet and it’s vented on the end and lets air into the attic, also pretty extensive for a garage.
If you could pull off the ridge vent you could take and cut slats or drill holes to allow there to go through the ridge vent which would allow some of the warm air on the unvented side out.
@@blairgilbert7606 thank you for all that information! I did see a video of a wedge vent installation. Unfortunately I just had my roof reshingled 12 yrs ago. That probably was my only option that I'm seeing. Unless taking off the ridge vent like you mentioned and putting holes or slats, but not something I would want to do my self. This unvented side of the roof also has no overhang.
Reason I'm wanting to insulate is because I live in NJ and it can get freezing in there. I'm turning my garage into a home gym. Besides for warmth I want to control the climate as much as I can in there so my equipment doesn't get ruined over time. I already purchased a comfort zone cz230er heater for my garage to warm it. Another option I guess I may have to go with is having ceiling joists installed by a contractor. For a traditional flat drywall ceiling with insulation Batts between the joists. There are only 4 ceiling joists up (22' long) from the original build, which i dont get? For the time being I may just insulate and purple board my walls only. Leaving the cathedral ceiling exposed. I will just turn my heater on about 20 minutes or so before I'm in there to get it comfortable. I know the heat is going to escape through the roof since there's no insulation, but it'll just run for the couple hours i spend in there to keep it comfortable for this winter. Hopefully by Spring/early summer I'll have enough put away to afford getting this taken care of.
Staple them up then hit each one with spray foam , hit the bottom and go about 2 ft up .
Would this be a good idea to insulate a garage with no ceiling drywall? My garage gets really cold and hot sl it makes it hard for me to work on my projects. I'm going to insulate the walls but K was wondering what to do about the roof.
Thanks for the video. It has helped me understand more.
Meanwhile, my structure is an 8x12 properly shingled wood-roof shed in Toronto Canada. I added 4" pink batts and then a poly-vapour barrier. It's been fine all winter. But now in mid-April, after a couple of sunny days, some of the roof panels began to sweat.
I have Soffits on the outside corners only (2' x 8' in each corner, not all the way across, which I could change if needed) and opposing 8"x6" vents in the two sidewalls, but there is no Ridge vent.
In your opinion is it worth installing baffles above my 4" batts? Will this solve the condensation problem even with no Ridge Vents. If not, can you make any suggestions or even point me to a URL for more assistance?
Cheers,
Alan
The air enters from the soffit, (the overhang at the base of my roof.
It gets heated from the sun, it rises up and out the ridge vent at the top of the roof.
The baffles allow me to insulate tight to the roof while allowing air to flow up and out the top.
Mr. Hardware
Thank you for the video, I'm planning on doing this for my parents house (some time in the future) and having a video to show them will be a great help in explaining. One thing you mentioned was the vapor. I know it needed to be added, but I'm not sure where it goes... Does the barrier go over this material and then the insulation last or insulation and then vapor barrier?
Am sorry said this but. The 1st baffle vent. Are Instal Incorrect. And the Union bet twin Sims are incorrect. To.
You need put all straigh out the vent. 5 to 7 inch out. And block the top plate whit R19 Batt Insulation fiber glass or kraft Batt Insulation. Air seal whit foam Insulation any penetrations....! Plus aded R19x24 Batt Insulation fiber glass and vapor Barrier poly 4 mil or 6 mil. And taping any cut or gape in the barrier's. 😉👍
Thank God Zudoan isnt an insulation contractor. This IS the proper method. He will not have a traditional attic. The baffles and subsequent insulation will be the 'attic'. his rafters will be used as storage with no ceiling - thus providing plenty of breathing and movement of air to prevent mold, etc. And he is still letting his roof sheeting and shingles breathe. I just hope he puts insulation over the vertical part of the baffles, otherwise is will be a cold zone for moisture build up.
nrgsaver, obviously ridge vents are not meant to be used without soffit vents or gable vents. A ridge vent alone will never be sufficient without proper air flow from the other vents.
Now that you have airflow from below/side, air will flow upwards into and through the ridge vent. This is the whole reason why this guy is putting in baffles.
Searching for any bit of information in this video that is not completely wrong... I got nothing
Thank you
Why are you running those vents all the way up to your ridge vent? If you are only insulating the first 20" from the bottom of your truss there is no need to go all the way to the top with you vents/baffles.
Dude, It is my wood shop. It is conditioned. I store stuff in the trusses, they are heated/cooled, the same temp as my house. The insulation is the top of my area that I work/live in. Watch baffles part 2
Where's part 2? I'm getting ready to insulate my garage ceiling also.
Found it. I'm actually doing this to my garage roof. :)
these baffles are allowing us to insulate as close to the roof as possible, to achieve the most r-value and allow air to flow from the sofits up to the ridge vent. In the second video I show the insulation installed.
surprised someone hasn't mentioned this yet. if you overlap the baffles the other way ie top to bottom, then if the roof leaks or has condensation on the nails the water will run down to the soffit. Also, shouldn't the soffit have the baffle run into it so it will drip to the soffit and not the the top of the wall? I know you will seal everything and it has probably been good but just an observation.....
+spudth
Well said, with proper ventilation there should not be any condensation, but why not prepare for the worst? What about when the roof fails? Thanks Blair
Mr. Hardware I thought they made an Piece one that would fit directly right down into the soffit
spudth install from soffit up, because it follows the airflows-up through the soffit and to the ridge vent. This is the most efficient overlap for this air direction.
@ivcruiser
He doesn't have it all wrong. Believe it or not, this is a very effective way to insulate the attic without using fiber blankets. The key for insulation to work is to keep the roof as hot/cold as possible by providing an air space. The only thing I would add to what he is doing is to staple fiber batts over the vent baffles he already has. Remember that his aim is to use that attic truss space. This method is especially useful if using spray-on insulation - Architect of 14 years
I have an interesting situation. Inside a 1933 cape cod house, Im preparing to replace the plaster and cork board in the upstairs room (kneewalls to roof deck) with drywall. I have what looks like a 2x4 rafter system. Last year I paid to have fascia vents (no soffits) , and ridge vents installed on 3/4 of my roof.I currently have no insulation whatsoever either on the ceiling or walls of my upstairs room.My plan is to run foam vent channels from the fascia vents to the ridge vents, canned spray foam any gaps. Then install a radiant barrier ontop of the foam vents, then install faced r-11 or r-13 batts on top of that. What do you say to that?I know its not ideal, but it's better than no insulation right?The only other issue will be moving my ceiling mounted AC trunks to the subfloor and installing AC floor vents instead.
+Jake Schrier
Jake, you want the insulation to be against the heated area. So I install baffles at the base of the roof so my insulation can be on the ceiling of the room below. Then up the walls to the baffles you install from the lower attic area, up the angled ceiling and ending in the upper attic. I would add 2 x 4's to the bottom of the angled ceiling so I could get more insulation in the intermediate area. Then put 12" above the center ceiling area. This way both attic areas are ventilated.
how do you get the air from inside the attic out if you have it all sealed up?
Has said it is a conditioned space. Meaning heating and cooling like the rest of the house. The insulation keeps the room warm in winter and cool in summer. The baffles with soffit vents and a ridge vent keep the roof cool all year round. Having outside air circulation to the conditioned space would be like having your living room windows open all year round.
can this help in case of a small leak?
Shouldn't the foam baffles be overlapped, so any condensation runs down the baffles an out to the eves versus; versus end butted together where the water would drip into the insullation?
It’s been a while, but I think I was thinking that and did overlap them.
Good job!
In Ireland the NSAI require installation of Vent tray
a company by name Fusion insulation supply this
Hey Mr. Hardware
I'm going to do the same for a very similar roof. Do you tape the top seam were the two opposing ends meet at the peak?
I cut about a 10 inch piece of the baffling and taped it across the ridge and then used aerosol foam as a tack welder to fill all my voids and glue it into place.
ADO DUROVENT, 22" X 48" RUN ABOUT 1.69 EACH.
Do I need to get these installed in my Tuff Shed?? Before I get the ceilings insulated??..There are no vents inside..I was told not to get any vents if I planned on insulating...PLEASE HELP...
My best wish for an insulated building is to have vents at the gutters ( the area at the base of the roof) and a ridge vent to let warm, moist air flow up and out. Send me an email of your print or something showing the roof and the outside wall and I'll send my idea back. blair@mrhardware.com
Interesting, do the baffles stay in place by simply hammering them in?
Those are staples from my hammer stapler. Once the insulation was blown in using reinforced plastic stapled over the rafters to contain it, the baffles won’t be able to move
Nice video
Here in the rio grande valley in Texas, they are using open spray foam for the attics but no ventilation. Is this the correct way of doing it.?
What's a ruff?
I can't believe how bad of a job you've done here. You have no insulation on top of your wall plate. If you're in a northern climate, you'll get frost on the upper corners of your rooms. Run baffle out past wall, and shove fiberglass insulation between baffle and top off wall. You only do the folding method to the outside edge of the wall(not inside) , but only if you have a taller truss heel height. And you don't run the baffle all the way to the ridge vent, otherwise you get no air circulation in the attic space, and you could have moisture issues.
You do realize that he's keeping the attic space exposed, right? That way - he can keep it open to put things in the rafters. After he does this, he's putting insulation on top of what he just stapled up there. I can see what you mean about putting the baffle past the wall plate...
ok. it is a great think . what about the hot air between the ceiling and the baffles? where it wit go if you got your baffles all the way to the ridge vent?I thought you supposed to run the baffles only in the area where the insulation will be so it doesn't block the air flow?
I'm using the attic, there will be no ceiling thus no dead air space. I only insulate against the conditioned area.
So the baffles create a channel between the insulation and the roof sheething to have airflow from soffit to ridge cap?
Yup, keeps the roof cooler and less heat against the insulation.
Thanks! Your video came in very handy.
Am I right in thinking that there should be a soffit vent between all rafters so air will flow up the roof to the ridge vent?
Usually the soffit is continuous so one vent feeds multiple rafter spaces. I have had to install more but smaller vents in one job w separate rafter spaces
@@MrHardware1 That explains my confusion. Yes, I have individual vents but not between every rafter. Thanks for the reply.
SO,....my attic is unfinished and i was told we had to put ventilation up before we insulated so that it wouldn't mold..is this what i have to do?
No the baffles will only hide the leak, directing it to the soffits. You'll never find the roof leak inside w/my system.
He did it wrong.
The folded part of the vent NEEDS TO EXTEND TO EXTERIOR SIDE OF WALL PLATE.
Inslation needs to cover whole top plate...otherwise you have a cold corner.
I live in BC Canada and his job would fail inspection.
Rooky mistake.
Hey MR. Hardware,
I have the same setup on an pine 8x12 shed roof, in Toronto Canada. Only I don't have a ridge vent.
Would you still install the baffles to the roof peak even with out the ridge vent everything under the vapor barrier is well vented, but when I had my batting straight up on the roof with no baffles, it began to sweat. Any advice is welcomed.
Id add the baffles because in the future you can add a Ridge vent. You also don't need to redo your roof to do so.
Thanks for sharing your video. I want to add faced batt to my old garage ceiling as you show, but I have no ridge vent or soffit vents. All of those spaces are closed off. I only plan to heat the space for hobby woodworking for several hours a week through the winter months with an electric heater or maybe wood stove. Would you recommend adding these vents, going with a different insulating material, or something else entirely?
I think you should install a ridge vent so the air can come from the vents to the ridge vent. Then insulate below the baffles with anything, fiberglass or blown-in with reinforced plastic stapled to the bottom of the rafters or foam, the best.
you need to capture the air from the soffits and prevent it from taking heated air from the shop.
Blair Gilbert Blair Gilbert I think you missed the point he made. I have the same problem situation in my garage. They shut the soffet vent with wood so there is no venting at all. the top of the roof is also blocked with wood so there is no way to add a ridge vent unless I tear all the wood out. The thing is I am not using AC and only minimal heating using space heaters sometimes. Otherwise the only conditioning is what is leaking through from the house. I park my electric car in the garage in the winter which helps with the range. Adding the insulation to the walls seemed to make a difference. If the garage is minimally heated in the winter do you think adding a layer of insulation boards on the studs would cause and mold problems or overheating during the summer? If I just left the bottom and top open allowing it to vent on the inside of the garage will that defeat the purpose since there is no air barrier? If the soffit and ridge venting is not an option is there anything simple that would work without causing a problem with mimimally conditioned spaces?
If you are using electric space heaters there won't be a lot of warm MOIST air rising to the roof, (gas space heaters create a lot of moisture) and getting trapped between the insulation and the cold roof. Moist air penetrates the insulation and contacts the ice cold roof and BOOM, you have condensation.
I have used 2 layers of plastic (visquene) stapled to the bottoms of the ceiling joists to create a semi thermal barrier to retain heat. That way you won't be heating the attic area above.
Please help me find what to use underneath the porch it has became part of the living room it makes my entire first floor ice cold
Many things, your porch could be on a slab and of course concrete it’s always cold. Your porch may be over a crawlspace that’s not connected to the basement hence it has no warm air underneath it so it’s cold. You’ll have to let me know the construction as to how to cure the problem.
@@MrHardware1 you are right the porch is not connected to a basement and its an open crawlspace i now have very little fiberglass insulation i need to know what else i can use.
@@jacquelinepierre4699 Either you get underneath the area and insulate it with fiberglass and then put a protective sheeting on the bottom of the joist to keep animals out of there. Or you seal the perimeter of the crawlspace and you connected to the basement so warm air from the basement can get into that area and it won’t escape because you insulated the exterior of the crawlspace.
//Systems like this effectively change the "attic" to "conditioned" space - like the main floors of your home - with the usual hvac system controlling heating/cooling/humidity. Make sense now?//
No they don't! This is not a conditioned attic. A conditioned attic is one that stays largely within the same temperature of the house. His fiberglass attic will largely stay in the range of the outside air. Conditioned attics are high efficiency systems designed to save massive amounts of money on heating and cooling. Their drawback is they are more expensive initially to install.
+77Avadon77
this is not an attic, it is my work shop with an open ceiling. Thus it is a giant conditioned space.
Doesnt putting baffles from the soffit all the way up to the ridge defeat the purpose of trying to aerate the attic? Wouldnt the air flow just flow from the soffit up to the ridge or vice versa and not aerate the attic space?
+Marcus Skaggs - This isn't a typical installation and I would not do this in any space that you intend to live in. That being said, this works fine for a shop or garage PROVIDED EVERY space between trusses has its own vents in the soffit and the ridge... which it looks like Gilbert has. He can squeeze some R-15 or R-19 (it looks like the top cord is 2x6- if your top cord is 2x4 you'll only get about R-11 or R-13 max) craft-faced batts up against the foam baffles and bypass the hot air past the attic.
He may lose some R-value from his batts as the will be slightly compressed due to the space occupied by the baffles (about 1.5"). If one were to insulate on the ceiling around the bottom cord of the trusses, you can add a lot more R-Value (for my area the recommendation is R-38). I don't know how he could reasonably do more than about R-19 with his method.
I would not seal the foam baffles with tape and spray foam as he describes. The batts need a little flowing air to dissipate humidity that may build in the insulation. I would also check with the shingle company to make sure this method doesn't still constitute a "hot roof" (his words) and void your warranty. Although this method does allow air flow, it is less airflow than a traditional install.
I concocted basically the same plan to insulate my shop and was just looking around RUclips to see if anyone else has done it when I found your comment. There are two additional things I plan on doing. I will crown-staple 1x2s perpendicularly to the batts to support them from the underside. My Dad insulated his shop against the roof (the baffles didn't exist when he did his years ago, there are no roof vents, and mostly it insulates just fine in are arid region) with stapled craft-face batts and the batts began falling down over time. The other thing I plan to do (although its pretty low priority) is cover the exposed side of the insulation (the part I can see when I'm standing in the shop) with Atticfoil (google it) to protect the craft-face from snags and rips. It's not a vapor barrier (which I don't need) and it's very durable. I heat my shop with radiant heaters so there should be some benefit there.
+Aaron Bliesner
I stapled reinforced plastic to the bottom of the rafters, 2 x 6, and filled with cellulose. It was a test and it worked well.
+Marcus Skaggs
That is the point, I'm using the attic area to work. It is not a non conditioned area. I'm living there, 'sort of'. If it was an attic over a heater area I would only insulate against the heated area.
Can 3-4 layers of duro-vent tacked up without the complete insulation save a roof?
+sblizzy
It's not about saving the roof, it is letting the roof vent while keeping the room below warm or cool depending on the season. Several layers may have been all I needed for a garage, cuz it would have helped keep the heat from the summer sun from baking me in the garage.
You mentioned taping the cut marks, and caulking.. Any chance of an expanded example? What kind of tape, and specifically how you'd do both?
My concern is a drafty edge on the wall side after insulation is in place.
Actually I like to seal all the joints and voids with 'Crack filling spray foam'. It is messy but it glues any voids together.
@@MrHardware1 How can you be sure that the crack filler doesn't expand upwards and block the venting channels that the durovent is intended to create? Also what tape do you use?
@@davidlaplant4201 don’t use tons of foam when filling cracks, a little bonds like a lot. I recommend Gorilla tape for anything you don’t want to disassemble later.
I just bought some of these and they say 16OC but they are 22" wide, 11" if you snap them in half. Am I supposed to cut them?
The 22 1/2 inch ones are for trusses, you can buy them in 14 1/4 inches for conventional rafters. One does one and one does the other, they are not universal.
If you block the air flow from the soffit to the ridge vent aren't you supposed to get ice damming in the Winter? I thought you just did that.
Sorry you missed the lesson. It is all about air flow from the soffit to the ridge vent. No blockage, building an air passage here.
@Mr. Hardware, What would happen if the air beneath is conditioned in the winter, and the baffle is cold to the touch. Wouldn't that create condensation because of the warm conditioned moisture air touching the cold baffle?
Awesome video! I'm about to tackle this, this weekend. What rated insulation did you go with for the roof walls? I live in MN, and the recommended R is at least 30. I can't seem to find the right insulation that can fit a 2x4 roof and is 24 inches wide.
You will have to use closed cell foam. I used it in another house I remolded and my January heat bill was $110 a month just outside of Detroit.
I'm looking at doing the same thing for my garage. Are you rafters 2" x 6" and if so did you use R19 insulation? My garage has 2"x 6"s and I would like to install R19 instead of R15 if I can still maintain good air flow with the foam baffles.
+Ryan Rumelhart
Ryan, I installed reinforced plastic under my 2x6 top cord trusses with a 1" crown stapler and filled the cavity with blow-in cellulose.
I would do it again w/the most cost efficient product because it is a garage. My house is insulated with spray foam, and here in Michigan my January bill to heat 2,000 to 69 degrees is $110 a month. That is where my money is.
What do you do if you are insulating a small pitch area on a garage space (where there is no living area above) and there is no ridge vent in place at the top?
Foam insulation sprayed directly to the bottom of the roof plywood is the best way. Celluose or fiberglass can hold moisture and cause rot... This is a tough call because conditions vary greatly. I use a vent installed where the roof contacts the building, like a half-ridge vent to do it the best way.
Do you need to install baffles if the insulation is going to be spray foam?
Only if you want a cool roof. The baffles allow air to carry the heat up and away from the roof. Many shingle mfgrs allow for direct foam but the roof will get hotter. I'm trying to keep my shop cool so I am a baffle guy.
ok, thanks for the info.
you said you used aerosol foam and tape. I'm wondering what kind of foam and tape you used?
@@MrHardware1 wow, thanks for the quick reply!
Do all roofs have ridge vents?
No, some are too steep, too old or have a framing issue blocking air flow.
I have a 14x36 shed with a loft on both ends , I am finishing it out myself , I did not add baffles , I just stapled insulation up , do I now need to back track and remove the insulation to add baffles ? the shed will be air conditioned in summer and heated in winter , cause I plan on living in it as soon as im done , if ever .. :)
Air flow above the insulation is the key. Is there room for air or is the insulation tight to the roof?
Does the baffle have to cover the whole width of the space? Or can It just be a single channel up he middle then covered with batting?
It is better to cover, or vent, the maximum width. It will keep more of the roofing and shingles cooler.
Thanks. Can I put baffles when doing spray foam insulation also!
That is one of my finest jobs, connect the baffles to the soffit and the ridge and then foamed them in.
Mr. Hardware : many thanks for the reply
This makes sense to me
1-What happens if you leave the roof attic with only baffles but the attic floor with extra full insulation only
2-What happens if you only insulate the roof without baffles sorry I might of had missed these questions
Only insulate the roof if the attic is a conditioned area. Do the floor of the attic if the conditioned area is directly below.
If I don't have a rudge vent in my garage but just 2 each 8" round roof vents about 3 feet from the ridge top, will this baffles with face 3" batting insulation be effective?
You can’t insulate all the way to the ridge w out a ridge vent. As is only the 2 rafter spaces will be vented if insulation and baffles run all the way up.
@@MrHardware1 Thanks. I double checked the 2 roof vents and thier actually 1 foot below the roof pitch. If I install all the baffles and faced batting insulation between all 12 joists just short of those 2 vents will this still be effective at offering better warmth in the winter months and cool in summer?
@@jman321 As long as rising air from all the ceiling joists have passage to the roof vents, yes.