Elton was good at articulating the anti-establishment mindset in the 80s but shit at anticipating that people without real principles at heart like himself ultimately not only become part of a new establishment with all the ills of the old one but with extra layers of hypocrisy thrown in.
I love the fact that someone has told us exactly why to hate Ben Elton. Because I just hated him unconditionally before this. Thanks Stew!! Love your work!
Ben Elton was brilliant during his stand up time, him n Rik & Ade & Rowan & Nigel Planer & Chris Ryan & Hugh Laurie, Dawn & Jen etc etc & all that, but he moved onto something else. I for one appreciate him for the laughs he gave, but he owes me nothing. Live well Ben.
In the 80s Ben Elton hated on the two Ronnies on Saturday night live, then in the 90s he gave Corbett a regular slot on his BBC show, saying how great he was. That's Ben Elton.
I don’t remember Ben Elton ever being all that anti-Royalist or anti-establishment in his act to start with. Young Ones was anarchic but if anything it took the piss out of Socialists (Rik), Punks (Viv) and Hippies (Neil) rather than the establishment. In his 80s standup he talked about having nothing against the Royal Family and actually quite liking Prince Charles because he was an old Greenpeace hippy just like himself - “his brothers are bastards but their not gonna be King are they!” This irrational hardcore hatred of Ben Elton is baffling. If you’re an elderly right wing fart who loved Benny Hill I guess I can sort of understand it. But all Ben Elton and his generation did was provide an alternative to stale old Variety acts that were out of touch with a younger generation. They didn’t “kill” Benny Hill, Hill’s tired repetitive act did that. For newer comedians for slamming him for being a traitor for not being left wing enough or selling out, who gives a shit. The man can live his own life, his strength was always in his writing and he still writes great novels. Stewart Lee will never produce a “Blackadder Goes Forth”, I can guarantee that. Sure, there have been some big missteps in Elton’s career, but it’s like a great band who puts out a new album that’s a shadow of it’s former greatness - it does not negate the greatness and influence from earlier in their career. Have some f**king respect, Stewart Lee just comes across as snide and arrogant. Will be a nobody in half the time Ben Elton has had a career.
So you have to be right wing to like Benny Hill - and here was me thinking he was liked by the working class - so you're probably right - I've never met a more bigoted lot than Labour voters!
@@weswheel4834 Be absolutely serious - do you think liking Benny Hill makes you right wing? PS the Nazis were Socialists - so what exactly do you mean by right wing?
A lot of love for Elton`s work in Blackadder in the comments and yes it was good but...I always felt that Rowan Atkinson carried that series. His brilliant performance and delivery made many not particularly funny lines seem funny
Delivery is everything in all blackadder series, my personal favourite is actually the 1st despite most hating it. But yes when you actually think about the script itself it isn't hugely funny, just predictably formulaic jokes and sarcasm revolving around how stupid Baldrick is.
You only need to compare series 1 (not written by Ben Elton and irredeemably awful) with the next 3 series. Written by Ben Elton and undeniably brilliant
@@keith6591 yep each episode was tightly written and with a lot of great jokes. the formula was a little tired by the 4th series but even then the scripts were good.
Elton was never really anti-establishment. He was a (pre-Blair) Labour supporter, anti-misogynist, sort-of pro gay rights, anti-death penalty, pro welfare state etc. All good left positions, but all rather soft, vague, essentially moral rather than political.
Ben Elton was a very talented fella who apparently got apathetic towards politics as he grew older. It happens. I well remember the suffocating laddism culture of the mid 1990s and the crass backlash against Elton's type of "PC Comedy", which was universally, mercilessly derided. Perhaps he thought "Well fuck you then, why bother?" He hasn't been funny for decades but the hate he copped for was a bit disproportionate. The "selling out" probably meant more to his contemporaries or those who were influenced by him than it did to ordinary people. But it's an example of how media types can demonise an individual.
Delta Fox Well he never really had anything to gripe about first time round. He was the child of two middle class (or upper middle class) lecturers wasn't he? The closing of the pits never affected him personally. His accent was somewhat affected, which I understand irritated some, but his intentions appear to have been good. At least he could be arsed. With the advent lads' mags suffocating culture of the early to mid 90s (which appears to have stuck) I _well_ remember people regularly taking the piss out of anyone who objected to its sentiments having the suffix "My name's Ben Elton goodnight!" stuck to their utterances. It was absolutely meant as a diss. Satire was out. Cruelty disguised as "just banter", frequently aimed at easy targets, was in. I really think he just gave up. The tide had turned.
Delta Fox I fucking hope so. Ricky Gervais and his 'Hello Mongoloids' greetings to his twitter followers. Well the taboo factor probably made it funny for them, I don't know. But you can't discount the fact that disability hate crimes are on the rise - (someone in Japan just off'ed loads of people - he wanted to rid the world of them). And giggling behind your gated community in Hampstead won't protect disabled kids in Salford when the local toughs are mimicking their "funny walk" - because what these _fearless, uncompromising_ types don't realise is that what they call irony isn't fully understood in rough council estates. He's not Lenny Bruce and it's not 1965. He's not risking his life satirsing pompous politicians in China. Frankie Boyle now re-inventing himself as a compassionate Guardianista. He wrote for 'The Sun' not long ago. I'm not buying. We've all said bitchy stuff about celebs in the safety of our own homes. I'm not coming over all 'holier than thou' - but what he said about Rebecca Addlington was fucking humiliating stuff - especially for a woman. She had a boyfriend, family, friends - and the effect upon your (easy) target is going to be horribly amplified when you've got a few million viewers laughing at you. She had a nose job a few months later. I think cruelty's still "in" for now. It's a bug bear of mine, sorry...
We all move steadily to the right as we get older I remember my father telling me when I was 18, (40 years ago, mind) “If you’re not a socialist when you’re 18, you’ve got no soul. If you’re STILL a socialist when you’re 40, you’ve got no brains”
Benny Hill was just a vehicle for Ben Elton to display his smug, self righteous, right-on credentials. Watch his 80's routine about sexism in comedy, decrying breast jokes and then watch him hosting the Brit awards, where he talks about the Spice Girls' 'knockers'.
That's the odd thing about Ben Elton. He made his name by decrying the likes of Benny Hill's sexist comedy. Then he got his own BBC series called The Man from Auntie that consisted of the same shallow visual humour that he rubbished Benny Hill for. Perhaps he was being ironic? Sadly, no. In the Marx Brothers film Room Service, Groucho has a line that sums it up: "Now that I've eaten, I see things differently." Why worry about principles when you've got a fat BBC contract to sign?
I was dragged along to see Ben Elton yesterday and the memory of this was keeping me sane. Two hours of cowardly attempts to defend himself from imaginary accusations of bigotry and hypocrisy, interspersed with transphobia and spirited defenses of the moderate right.
I think most ‘Conservative’ MP’s are fundamentally left wing if you judge them on the positions they take. They are conservatives in name only. Secondly, Boris Johnson is a bad example to negate the statement that ‘the left is the establishment’ as the establishment literally kicked him out.
I wonder what it's like to have the strength of your principles put to the test by becoming a lot wealthier than you suspected you were going to be. I've met lots of people who have had their character put to the test by suddenly getting a lot poorer. None of them said it did then any good.
Ben Elton is frustrating. On the one hand there's the superb Popcorn, one of the best novels I've ever read, Blackadder, which got considerably better when he joined the writing team and, more recently, the return to form that is Upstart Crow. On the other there's his work with Queen and Lloyd Webber. What was he thinking? How much money does he need?
I saw the musical he did with Andrew Lloyd Webber - I don't think many people did. It was actually not bad - certainly not in the normal Lloyd Webber vein (which is why it was a flop).
I like some of BE's stuff and don't much like some of it. But through the interviews I've seen over the years he's always struck me as dedicated and hardworking. So I imagine his work with various Big Names was less about the money and more about the opportunity to try something new, maybe meet some heroes, and stretch himself. I don't see anything wrong with that.
@@robbiekop7 The thing is that whatever one thinks of Lloyd Webber's work, he's a Tory peer and therefore you'd think Elton would steer clear of him, and as for Queen - they broke the sanctions in place in apartheid era South Africa and played Sun City, an act that surely Elton would have decried. I don't understand how he could have associated with people that did that, on principle. Remember this is someone who, by his own admission, was a 'trendy leftie' that often let 'a little bit of politics' into his stand-up routine.
Toby Young - "Ben Elton started out as an alternative comedian railing against Thatcherism and now earns a fortune writing librettos for truly awful West End musicals. His name has become a by-word for shameless hackery. He's the biggest sell-out of his generation."
I always liked Ben Elton. Remember him from Saturday Live was it? That Comedy show from back in the 80's where he was the EmCee. And he was part of the team who wrote Black Adder, right? I enjoyed his novels as well. And his bits on the young ones.
Richard Curtis co-wrote Blackadder. People give huge praise to Ben Elton. Richard has a huge talent without doubt.What if he just learnt a lot from the first series, saw what worked best and that was the main difference and improvement? Many people credit Ben Elton for that. Am not so sure of the impact.
It's called growing up. People change. We're not the same as we were when we were teenagers. Ben Elton was only a teenager when he started out. Who cares if his views have changed?
I think Ben Elton is suffering the same fate that those light entertainers who worked in TV in the 60s/70s. who were suddenly removed from television by a new generation of ambitious lower middle glass students who fancied a career in TV and were going to get there even if it meant destroying the people who were already there. And, of course, being middle class, they did it with that self serving, self aggrandising "look at me" liberal posturing to what was, essentially, the demonising of that previous generation. I loved an awful lot of what they did because, first of all, I was about the same age as them, and it did contrast starkly with the, what seemed to me, old fashioned stuff my parents enjoyed. Previous to alt. com. in the uk at least, you had a rich and vibrant mix of comedy from all sections of society who all did their own thing as they were all from different traditions but, never seemed to believe that the only way to get on was to "remove that lot who are different to us". At the time I wasn't really aware of the bigger picture but looking back I do now think there was an element of cynicism and the usual healthy dollop of sanctimony to what they were doing.
Hi Chris, I am too young to really remember the alternative comedy scene of the 1980's - so I don't really get all of this Ben Elton hate. From what I can gather he sold out somehow?
Yes, he made a very good living off mocking the Establishment and espousing leftist views in the 80s, then as time passed he _became_ the Establishment and immediately began sucking up to the Royals and the government. He went where the money was, like a lot of people did, but when you start out as an ardent leftie and end up licking Prince Charles' arse, you're a huge phoney.
I took a large group of teenage performing arts students from NI on a junket to London, to see a musical. Some dross about the troubles. By Ben Elton. It was very very very utter shit. We walked out en masse after 20 minutes. Most English people stayed.
As can be judged by the a number of the comments below, Lee is consummately manipulating your own prejudices and throw them back at you, triggering the types of response seen below. Like all great comics, he's holding up a mirror to our own every day, casual bigotry.
Queen have by consensus become the greatest band ever in the last few years...baffles me...handful of good songs but nothing special...and as Stu points out they played apartheid South Africa...that’s just been conveniently written out of their history apparently. Anyway, anyone with a brain knows The Fall are the greatest band ever.
Nathan Parsons The Fall, absolutely. But how anyone can listen to that awful, depressing camp-opera Queen, especially when it’s on constant rotation is beyond me.
Queen WERE a great band, as were the Fall.. Just for different reasons. I agree that heavy rotation on the radio damaged the magic of a lot of Queen songs.. I am fed up to the back teeth of Somebody to love, for example because it's a safe radio friendly tune it has been smashed into oblivion.. However you hear a song, I dunno maybe Loverboy, hear the intricate multitracking of May's guitar in the background, never too overt, but complex, and adding to the final cut so well, you realise, man that was actually really good. Simply because it was never destroyed by constant playlisting by radio.. And I do need to point out that Radiohead are in fact the best band ever!!!
He was big in the 80s alternative comedy scene, went on to write so good TV shows, some awful novels and some musicals. He was seen as betraying his left wing principles to make more money. Now, whether having money stops you being socialist is one of th biggest political con jobs, but Elton just became less of a fire brand and previous fans couldn't forgive it. Really, they shouldn't pin hopes on one person. Elton's not terrible, he became bland. Reading Stark, his novel, made me thik he wasn't as good as he was. THAT was a terrible novel.
The issue with Ben Elton is that the Saturday Night Live alternative right-on rebel comedian was actually a character act but many people naively thought it was the real Ben Elton. Somewhat ironic to make this comment in a Stewart Lee video.
+Flappo Spammo of course it was boys club stuff. the only women who featured were in series 2 which coincidentally was the best of the series . ben elton just couldnt or didnt want to write for women. no shame in that. the same was said about john sullivan which was wrong.
@@adampeters7947 We have many equivalents here in the States. Bill Engvall and his adoring audiences, for example, show very clearly how the dumbing down of certain demographics didn't take much effort. I apologise in advance for any exposure you experience therefrom. But it's like driving by the shore of a bay at low tide in summer or a flatulent father in the car in winter. Eventually the smell dissipates and all is well again.
Not relevent to this video featuring Terry Christian, but the comedian Stewart Lee has also let himself go though, he popped up on an American game show. I saved the footage for posterity here - twitter.com/RexOrCine/status/689220344087994369
Ben Elton got on and people cant stand that, who would pass up career advancement? It doesnt mean he ditched his principles , he is no more ruthless than the next man, end of.
I am a big fan of Ben Elton and this guy Stewart Wee The chameleon. Could not write a beautiful multi leveled sitcom like Ben Elton's The Wright Way or A movie So forgotten it's now a cult hit "Maybe Baby" Ben Elton wrote some brilliant routines about a double seat where no one wants to sit next to him because he is Ben Elton. Could Stewart Wee write a sitcom about William Shakespeare which is cleverly treading over old ground from his previous work Blackadder. No Stewart Wee Couldn't.
Ben Elton was a ray of hope for the many who saw their world being vandalised. I remember how he once used the phrase : "all style but no content" to describe the way the world was heading. We are now in the age of spin and propaganda where inventing a 'fact' is merely a matter of making your 'fact' popular enough. Finding anything that challenges your 'fact' is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Now if I wanted to discredit Ben Elton, I might start by telling my audience, three times over, that he is unpopular, therefore he is evil. Popular people can never be evil, as most Germans confirmed after they voted Hitler into power. Then I'd have to find Ben Elton guilty by association with known symbols of evil, namely George Bush and apartheid. If these insinuations are downright lies, would I get sued for slander??? Not a chance... not my fault, your Honour, it was just something I read on the internet, but it' s now been deleted. A guy who spoke passionately against racism and for peace, would most likely be in South Africa to do just that and if he really was at George Bush's inauguration, would it not be interesting to find out what sort of person voted for Bush or why? Did anybody discover these 'facts' at the time or have they sprung into life several decades later, when nobody cares? Or do you believe Ben Elton is a born again bigot? You judge. Finally Ben Elton once made the point that Jesus would never get past a nightclub bouncer, because he was scruffy, whereas Hitler would be waved straight in 'cos he was smartly dressed. One reason I loved Ben Elton.
atergo He didn't give any comically-ridiculous reasons for hating Ben Elton. The bit with the audience aren't reasons, it's just comically asserting (with no element of manipulation) that no-one likes Ben Elton, and then the more serious bit after about him not sticking to a set of principles and turning on the anti-establishment stuff he began with, to associate with people that are considered to be in the other camp, he's basically considered a sellout.
"So suggesting people actually hate BE more than OSB" - just comedic, not a comedic reason. "emphasising how BE has 'changed' because "He worked with Queen and ALW" " - actual reasons, not comedically ridiculous reasons - because Ben Elton's shift in political tone is a well-documented fact, and this is what he's alluding to. Actual reasons, not comedically ridiculous ones, presented through a comedic routine.
Gold Snake I just googled it. Apparently Queen really did play gigs in apartheid SA.... And then BE worked with them... If you think that's an actual valid reason to hate someone, you're certifiable. I'm done here. Bye
Well you can all piss off I've always liked Ben Elton and still do - just watched him introducing Channel 4 40 anniversary of Friday Night Live and thought he was hilarious. I love some of Stewart Lee's work too but saw him live recently and didnt find it that funny.. maybe I'm just not intelligent enough to get it all...
Also Stephen Sanderson, have the common sense to put my name in your response when your making criticism otherwise it might look like your moaning about everyone's grammar.
It’s interesting how folks package their opinions as empirical fact , Elton has written some brilliant stuff and some not so good stuff just like the Beatles but of course this is just an opinion
Let's not forget Elton's slanderous comments about Benny Hill: ruclips.net/video/mnJ7az0qNh4/видео.html Which of course, he retracted and tried playing the victim a couple of days after Hill's death: ruclips.net/video/32ZQrpbBpsE/видео.html
"...Ben Elton wrote the young ones" ...over thirty fucking years ago. He wrote The Young Ones over THIRTY FUCKING YEARS AGO. He then wrote a couple of faintly amusing, if overly preachy and "right on, Missus Thatch" fist-in-the-air books about saving the environment and Big Brother before shitting out the travesty that is We Will Rock You. I'm against capital punishment but, for inflicting that absolute gash on the world, I think he should be stoned to death. Whilst being burnt at the stake
YourOpinionIsWorthWhatIHadToPayToSufferThroughIt - he wrote The Young Ones, he co-wrote three series of Blackadder - and then there's the books; maybe not up to the standards of the others but by no means a waste of time. What have you done that's going to stand on its own two feet in 40 years? What has Stuart Lee done, for that matter, that is going to stand up that long? Jerome K Jerome wrote "Three Men in a Boat (to say nothing of the dog)" more than 130 years ago and it's still a brilliant work - Elton's still got those runs on the board and no one can take them away. And when it comes to 'selling out' - what should he do? Continue to pretend to have an 18 year old's view of the world, for all its idealism, simplicity and lack of understanding? Why shouldn't he make some money to provide for his family? Should he give away 90% of his money? Why? Who has done that that you admire?
Not relevent to this video featuring Terry Christian, but the comedian Stewart Lee has also let himself go though, he popped up on an American game show. I saved the footage for posterity here - twitter.com/RexOrCine/status/689220344087994369
'Consistent set of ethical principles'. THIS is why Stuart is one of the best, what a mind.
He’s good
He’s funny
BUT he’s no Tom O’Connor
@@Torahboy1 Or Roy Walker.
@@wildevixen7753
Or Joe Pasquale
Yuk
@@Torahboy1are you a sardine ♠️
I find myself liking Stewart Lee shows.
I like all the shows.
Comedy vehicle.
All the shows
Elton was good at articulating the anti-establishment mindset in the 80s but shit at anticipating that people without real principles at heart like himself ultimately not only become part of a new establishment with all the ills of the old one but with extra layers of hypocrisy thrown in.
why I started to like Stewart Lee
I love the fact that someone has told us exactly why to hate Ben Elton. Because I just hated him unconditionally before this. Thanks Stew!! Love your work!
Oh fuckoff you dumb slag
Ben Elton was brilliant during his stand up time, him n Rik & Ade & Rowan & Nigel Planer & Chris Ryan & Hugh Laurie, Dawn & Jen etc etc & all that, but he moved onto something else.
I for one appreciate him for the laughs he gave, but he owes me nothing. Live well Ben.
Great comment. Stewart wants to grow up, if you ask me.
@@youandwhosearmy6339 I don't think he does
@@youandwhosearmy6339 He's the archetypal hatefilled Leftie.
@Macavity Yeah course he is. Playing a character that sounds, talks exactly the same as his own? Righto..
@Macavity Ooohh how wounding... Crack on mate, he's a left wing loon. What comedian invents a character without a name....talk about a simpleton.
In the 80s Ben Elton hated on the two Ronnies on Saturday night live, then in the 90s he gave Corbett a regular slot on his BBC show, saying how great he was. That's Ben Elton.
Ben Elton has more faces than Fu Manchu.
A hypocrite. And Ronnie Corbett didn't have enough self respect to turn him down.
@@king77703 I guess you could be right. If Ben Elton is two faced then that gives him more than Fu manchu ... who only has one.
Weird how no-one goes on about Elton John and Status Quo also playing South Africa *after* Queen did.
I don’t remember Ben Elton ever being all that anti-Royalist or anti-establishment in his act to start with. Young Ones was anarchic but if anything it took the piss out of Socialists (Rik), Punks (Viv) and Hippies (Neil) rather than the establishment. In his 80s standup he talked about having nothing against the Royal Family and actually quite liking Prince Charles because he was an old Greenpeace hippy just like himself - “his brothers are bastards but their not gonna be King are they!”
This irrational hardcore hatred of Ben Elton is baffling. If you’re an elderly right wing fart who loved Benny Hill I guess I can sort of understand it. But all Ben Elton and his generation did was provide an alternative to stale old Variety acts that were out of touch with a younger generation. They didn’t “kill” Benny Hill, Hill’s tired repetitive act did that.
For newer comedians for slamming him for being a traitor for not being left wing enough or selling out, who gives a shit. The man can live his own life, his strength was always in his writing and he still writes great novels. Stewart Lee will never produce a “Blackadder Goes Forth”, I can guarantee that. Sure, there have been some big missteps in Elton’s career, but it’s like a great band who puts out a new album that’s a shadow of it’s former greatness - it does not negate the greatness and influence from earlier in their career. Have some f**king respect, Stewart Lee just comes across as snide and arrogant. Will be a nobody in half the time Ben Elton has had a career.
I liked Ben Elton AND Benny Hill. That’s because I don’t have a stick right up my arse, but do have a sense of humour.
"have some respect", yeah, why not try it?
So you have to be right wing to like Benny Hill - and here was me thinking he was liked by the working class - so you're probably right - I've never met a more bigoted lot than Labour voters!
@@garyphisher7375 Working class can be right wing.
@@weswheel4834 Be absolutely serious - do you think liking Benny Hill makes you right wing?
PS the Nazis were Socialists - so what exactly do you mean by right wing?
A lot of love for Elton`s work in Blackadder in the comments and yes it was good but...I always felt that Rowan Atkinson carried that series. His brilliant performance and delivery made many not particularly funny lines seem funny
Behave yourself man.
Delivery is everything in all blackadder series, my personal favourite is actually the 1st despite most hating it. But yes when you actually think about the script itself it isn't hugely funny, just predictably formulaic jokes and sarcasm revolving around how stupid Baldrick is.
Give over will you. The writing was genius, as was Atkinson's performances
You only need to compare series 1 (not written by Ben Elton and irredeemably awful) with the next 3 series. Written by Ben Elton and undeniably brilliant
@@keith6591 yep each episode was tightly written and with a lot of great jokes. the formula was a little tired by the 4th series but even then the scripts were good.
Elton was never really anti-establishment. He was a (pre-Blair) Labour supporter, anti-misogynist, sort-of pro gay rights, anti-death penalty, pro welfare state etc. All good left positions, but all rather soft, vague, essentially moral rather than political.
Anti MISOGYNIST or Anti MISCEGENIST? 😂
Ben Elton was a very talented fella who apparently got apathetic towards politics as he grew older. It happens. I well remember the suffocating laddism culture of the mid 1990s and the crass backlash against Elton's type of "PC Comedy", which was universally, mercilessly derided. Perhaps he thought "Well fuck you then, why bother?" He hasn't been funny for decades but the hate he copped for was a bit disproportionate. The "selling out" probably meant more to his contemporaries or those who were influenced by him than it did to ordinary people. But it's an example of how media types can demonise an individual.
Delta Fox
Well he never really had anything to gripe about first time round. He was the child of two middle class (or upper middle class) lecturers wasn't he? The closing of the pits never affected him personally. His accent was somewhat affected, which I understand irritated some, but his intentions appear to have been good. At least he could be arsed.
With the advent lads' mags suffocating culture of the early to mid 90s (which appears to have stuck) I _well_ remember people regularly taking the piss out of anyone who objected to its sentiments having the suffix "My name's Ben Elton goodnight!" stuck to their utterances. It was absolutely meant as a diss. Satire was out. Cruelty disguised as "just banter", frequently aimed at easy targets, was in. I really think he just gave up. The tide had turned.
Delta Fox
I fucking hope so. Ricky Gervais and his 'Hello Mongoloids' greetings to his twitter followers. Well the taboo factor probably made it funny for them, I don't know. But you can't discount the fact that disability hate crimes are on the rise - (someone in Japan just off'ed loads of people - he wanted to rid the world of them). And giggling behind your gated community in Hampstead won't protect disabled kids in Salford when the local toughs are mimicking their "funny walk" - because what these _fearless, uncompromising_ types don't realise is that what they call irony isn't fully understood in rough council estates. He's not Lenny Bruce and it's not 1965. He's not risking his life satirsing pompous politicians in China.
Frankie Boyle now re-inventing himself as a compassionate Guardianista. He wrote for 'The Sun' not long ago. I'm not buying. We've all said bitchy stuff about celebs in the safety of our own homes. I'm not coming over all 'holier than thou' - but what he said about Rebecca Addlington was fucking humiliating stuff - especially for a woman. She had a boyfriend, family, friends - and the effect upon your (easy) target is going to be horribly amplified when you've got a few million viewers laughing at you. She had a nose job a few months later. I think cruelty's still "in" for now.
It's a bug bear of mine, sorry...
We all move steadily to the right as we get older
I remember my father telling me when I was 18, (40 years ago, mind) “If you’re not a socialist when you’re 18, you’ve got no soul. If you’re STILL a socialist when you’re 40, you’ve got no brains”
his 90's (i think) motormouth tour was pretty frikkken funny - like hands down hilarious, regardless of what he's done since then
If you had watched the vid, he didn't say he wasn't funny. He was saying he was a massive sell out to his own principles. Keep up 🤣
. . . That'll be all the Charlie he was able to afford back then. They were all burning out their septums, just like nowadays but with crap 🎶 music
My big beef with Elton was his constant attacks on Benny Hill for no real reason. What the hell had Benny done to him? Nothing.
...and yet he had nothing to say about Savile.
Benny Hill was just a vehicle for Ben Elton to display his smug, self righteous, right-on credentials. Watch his 80's routine about sexism in comedy, decrying breast jokes and then watch him hosting the Brit awards, where he talks about the Spice Girls' 'knockers'.
To be fair Ben backtracked on this later.
I saw benny hill chase ben elton around dartmouth park , west brom in the late 70s maybe thats got something to do with it!
Ben Elton's new sitcom The Wright Way shows how far he's fallen.
It's everything he hated about sitcoms when he was young.
It's the same as the pc crap that is the thin blue line
That's the odd thing about Ben Elton. He made his name by decrying the likes of Benny Hill's sexist comedy. Then he got his own BBC series called The Man from Auntie that consisted of the same shallow visual humour that he rubbished Benny Hill for. Perhaps he was being ironic? Sadly, no. In the Marx Brothers film Room Service, Groucho has a line that sums it up: "Now that I've eaten, I see things differently." Why worry about principles when you've got a fat BBC contract to sign?
@@benrichards399 Didn't he do Blackadder too?
PC Crap wasn't that the name of one of the officers at the Station 😣
That guy from Fine Young Cannibals has let himself go.
Yeah he's not the man, he used to be.
Maybe he "drove them crazy". 😉
I see what you did there??
Ben Elton: Angry at the rich when he was poor....and then he got rich and said no more.
Elton was never poor.
The Same with Richard Curtis.
The comedian mark steel put elton into room101, it's worth a watch.
"I'm not angry at Ben Elton for selling out because I thought he was a wanker to begin with." - Mark Steel
Mark Who ??
@@jeffreymunday7410 mark steel
@@jonoessex no, that's what they do. It's a diss at his lack of fame. If someone isn't rich or famous they don't matter to rightwingers
Anne Robinson also put him in there. He's the only person to be put in there twice.
I was dragged along to see Ben Elton yesterday and the memory of this was keeping me sane. Two hours of cowardly attempts to defend himself from imaginary accusations of bigotry and hypocrisy, interspersed with transphobia and spirited defenses of the moderate right.
“The left is the establishment!” Me, looking at Boris Johnson, scratching my head.
Because you confuse someone claiming to be a conservative with someone who actually has conservative values.
@@mfcorp9608 do you mean Boris was left wing?
I think most ‘Conservative’ MP’s are fundamentally left wing if you judge them on the positions they take.
They are conservatives in name only.
Secondly, Boris Johnson is a bad example to negate the statement that ‘the left is the establishment’ as the establishment literally kicked him out.
People change as they get older.
ben elton was great ,to busy with his books and plays now for tv but if he was im sure it would be funnier than this
I wonder what it's like to have the strength of your principles put to the test by becoming a lot wealthier than you suspected you were going to be. I've met lots of people who have had their character put to the test by suddenly getting a lot poorer. None of them said it did then any good.
"I've got the foremans' job at last. The working class can kiss my ass."
@@Mickparrysstepdad Sung to the tune of The Red Flag.
Ben Elton is frustrating. On the one hand there's the superb Popcorn, one of the best novels I've ever read, Blackadder, which got considerably better when he joined the writing team and, more recently, the return to form that is Upstart Crow.
On the other there's his work with Queen and Lloyd Webber. What was he thinking? How much money does he need?
I saw the musical he did with Andrew Lloyd Webber - I don't think many people did. It was actually not bad - certainly not in the normal Lloyd Webber vein (which is why it was a flop).
I like some of BE's stuff and don't much like some of it. But through the interviews I've seen over the years he's always struck me as dedicated and hardworking. So I imagine his work with various Big Names was less about the money and more about the opportunity to try something new, maybe meet some heroes, and stretch himself. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Ben Elton will constantly go out of his comfort zone and try different ventures. Stuart Lee as good as he is at Stand Up has never done so
@@robbiekop7
The thing is that whatever one thinks of Lloyd Webber's work, he's a Tory peer and therefore you'd think Elton would steer clear of him, and as for Queen - they broke the sanctions in place in apartheid era South Africa and played Sun City, an act that surely Elton would have decried. I don't understand how he could have associated with people that did that, on principle. Remember this is someone who, by his own admission, was a 'trendy leftie' that often let 'a little bit of politics' into his stand-up routine.
I don't seem to recall Sir Elton John refusing *his* Knighthood 👑
Toby Young - "Ben Elton started out as an alternative comedian railing against Thatcherism and now earns a fortune writing librettos for truly awful West End musicals. His name has become a by-word for shameless hackery. He's the biggest sell-out of his generation."
harryurz
Spot on.
So true
Nancy Fraps I wish I could put 100 thumbs up for your comment , couldn't agree more
Nancy Fraps So you don't like him Nancy?!😉😂
If Toby Young doesn't like him, he's ok with me.
I always liked Ben Elton. Remember him from Saturday Live was it? That Comedy show from back in the 80's where he was the EmCee. And he was part of the team who wrote Black Adder, right? I enjoyed his novels as well. And his bits on the young ones.
They hate him on his own terms 😂
I just find him a bit "in your face".
Can't knock him as a writer though - Blackadder etc.
"Yeah, clap. Let him hear you".
Savage.
Richard Curtis co-wrote Blackadder. People give huge praise to Ben Elton. Richard has a huge talent without doubt.What if he just learnt a lot from the first series, saw what worked best and that was the main difference and improvement? Many people credit Ben Elton for that. Am not so sure of the impact.
@jpc2470 you've missed the point and question I made & I did not 'knock' B Elton.
KD Lang has let herself go
himself
I can't remember KD being a bitter, smug annoying wanker. I quite like KD
This is the first time I've seen Stewart Lee and I agree with his comments .
Tried to read Chart Throb last week. Got about 50 pages in before I gave up. Worst 75p I ever spent.
I liked that one. Others I liked that I've not seen mentioned here included Dead Famous and Post Mortem.
Does anyone ever tick the Yes I liked that ad box ?
Music and lighting change, please
It's called growing up. People change. We're not the same as we were when we were teenagers. Ben Elton was only a teenager when he started out. Who cares if his views have changed?
_"Who cares if his views have changed?"_
Obviously you do, because you're defending the change.
Dr Harold Shipman has let himself go
When this was recorded, it would appear, nobody had let themselves go yet.
Where as these days…
Steve Coogan has lost weight.
and stopped being a comic genius, and started becoming a bitter bastard
@@youandwhosearmy6339 Every industry has its....shits...
Off the Toblerone
I'm with Alexei Sayle when it comes to Benelton.
@@Borderman47 good a reason asany...
Funny because I see Stewart Lee as the Ben Elton of his generation
I think Ben Elton is suffering the same fate that those light entertainers who worked in TV in the 60s/70s. who were suddenly removed from television by a new generation of ambitious lower middle glass students who fancied a career in TV and were going to get there even if it meant destroying the people who were already there. And, of course, being middle class, they did it with that self serving, self aggrandising "look at me" liberal posturing to what was, essentially, the demonising of that previous generation. I loved an awful lot of what they did because, first of all, I was about the same age as them, and it did contrast starkly with the, what seemed to me, old fashioned stuff my parents enjoyed. Previous to alt. com. in the uk at least, you had a rich and vibrant mix of comedy from all sections of society who all did their own thing as they were all from different traditions but, never seemed to believe that the only way to get on was to "remove that lot who are different to us". At the time I wasn't really aware of the bigger picture but looking back I do now think there was an element of cynicism and the usual healthy dollop of sanctimony to what they were doing.
Is this before he let himself go?
Who is ben Elton? From america
Hi Chris,
I am too young to really remember the alternative comedy scene of the 1980's - so I don't really get all of this Ben Elton hate. From what I can gather he sold out somehow?
Yes, he made a very good living off mocking the Establishment and espousing leftist views in the 80s, then as time passed he _became_ the Establishment and immediately began sucking up to the Royals and the government. He went where the money was, like a lot of people did, but when you start out as an ardent leftie and end up licking Prince Charles' arse, you're a huge phoney.
@Athos Aramis you don't even know what left means you partially sentient speck of lint
I took a large group of teenage performing arts students from NI on a junket to London, to see a musical. Some dross about the troubles. By Ben Elton. It was very very very utter shit. We walked out en masse after 20 minutes. Most English people stayed.
Did you check the passports and residences of all those that stayed?
genuine massive LOL at the Andrew Lloyd Webber comment.
Who is Stewart Lee.
What badge is he weather?
The BBC has let Stewart Lee go…..
Why?? Ben Elton is a legend. Brilliant author too. Some of the best books I’ve ever read.
You need to find a better choice of reading.
No, you do. I read a wide variety of books by hundreds of authors. Ben Elton is top 5.
@@jakehixon4073 Is Enid Blyton in your top 5 too?
@Jake Hixon: lol
@@geoffpoole483 who?
As can be judged by the a number of the comments below, Lee is consummately manipulating your own prejudices and throw them back at you, triggering the types of response seen below. Like all great comics, he's holding up a mirror to our own every day, casual bigotry.
Or, Lee is saying what we already say ourselves about Ben Elton, only in a much funnier, wittier way.
Queen have by consensus become the greatest band ever in the last few years...baffles me...handful of good songs but nothing special...and as Stu points out they played apartheid South Africa...that’s just been conveniently written out of their history apparently. Anyway, anyone with a brain knows The Fall are the greatest band ever.
Nathan Parsons The Fall, absolutely. But how anyone can listen to that awful, depressing camp-opera Queen, especially when it’s on constant rotation is beyond me.
Nathan Parsons every member wrote a number 1 single. They were a great band.
Queen WERE a great band, as were the Fall.. Just for different reasons. I agree that heavy rotation on the radio damaged the magic of a lot of Queen songs.. I am fed up to the back teeth of Somebody to love, for example because it's a safe radio friendly tune it has been smashed into oblivion.. However you hear a song, I dunno maybe Loverboy, hear the intricate multitracking of May's guitar in the background, never too overt, but complex, and adding to the final cut so well, you realise, man that was actually really good. Simply because it was never destroyed by constant playlisting by radio.. And I do need to point out that Radiohead are in fact the best band ever!!!
Who Is This Ben Elton Character!!!!!!! . . . : 0 )
Pillock on pillock action
he also wrote or co wrote the young one's, maybe not everyone's taste, who is this so called comedian?
He's the 41st best stand up comedian in the world.
@@MaggotKing9 According to his mum perhaps, no one else has ever heard of the mong.
He was big in the 80s alternative comedy scene, went on to write so good TV shows, some awful novels and some musicals.
He was seen as betraying his left wing principles to make more money. Now, whether having money stops you being socialist is one of th biggest political con jobs, but Elton just became less of a fire brand and previous fans couldn't forgive it. Really, they shouldn't pin hopes on one person.
Elton's not terrible, he became bland. Reading Stark, his novel, made me thik he wasn't as good as he was. THAT was a terrible novel.
Stuart is my favourite comedian who has a pulse
He has however, let himself go
Lmao
It's easy being a dead comedian.
@@TheRenewedMind lol 😂
I take your Ben Elton, and raise you Paul Hogan.
:P
Ben Elton's really let himself go.
Ben Elton let himself go
The issue with Ben Elton is that the Saturday Night Live alternative right-on rebel comedian was actually a character act but many people naively thought it was the real Ben Elton. Somewhat ironic to make this comment in a Stewart Lee video.
hey , he co-wrote Blackadder all else is forgiven
blackadder was cowritten and very hit and miss. most of it was boys club stuff
boys club , lol
what a surprise that a lee fan is a pc correct asshole
you losers make me laugh , unlike s lee
+Flappo Spammo of course it was boys club stuff. the only women who featured were in series 2 which coincidentally was the best of the series . ben elton just couldnt or didnt want to write for women. no shame in that. the same was said about john sullivan which was wrong.
the same ricky gervais that called lee the funniest comedian on the circuit?
Delta Fox learn how to use a semi-colon.
Ben Elton, giving it to us straight.
You have to admit, Elton did write some brilliant comedy
dislike injustice And you are a humourless bastard.
Not being sarky, i just can't think of any of his material being funny.
You think Blackadder is shit? You must be a total fucking brain-dead prick@@philmellor4885
Spot on @@SvenTviking
@dislike injustice shut up you silly bastard
People also don't like Stewart Lee. Ironic really
People generally, don't like a lot of people.
I'd never heard of Ben Elton until now and took a look. How do you unhear of someone? Fuck.
It's too late. It cannot be undone.
@@adampeters7947 We have many equivalents here in the States. Bill Engvall and his adoring audiences, for example, show very clearly how the dumbing down of certain demographics didn't take much effort. I apologise in advance for any exposure you experience therefrom. But it's like driving by the shore of a bay at low tide in summer or a flatulent father in the car in winter. Eventually the smell dissipates and all is well again.
@@Joshualbm
I will have check him out thank you. Just out of interest. Hopefully I'll recover
that eskimo has let himself go
You're thinking of Terry Christian. It's an easy mistake to make.
Not relevent to this video featuring Terry Christian, but the comedian Stewart Lee has also let himself go though, he popped up on an American game show. I saved the footage for posterity here - twitter.com/RexOrCine/status/689220344087994369
Put the argument that way it's hard to argue. But I do still like Ben Elton, even with his faults.
Same with Richard Curtis.
Ben Elton got on and people cant stand that, who would pass up career advancement? It doesnt mean he ditched his principles , he is no more ruthless than the next man, end of.
Nope, he's an obnoxious unoriginal bore skated by on ethno-nepotism.
I hate that generation of hipster Brits “wah wah wah the tories”
I am a big fan of Ben Elton
and this guy Stewart Wee The chameleon. Could not write a beautiful multi leveled sitcom like Ben Elton's The Wright Way or A movie So forgotten it's now a cult hit "Maybe Baby"
Ben Elton wrote some brilliant routines about a double seat where no one wants to sit next to him because he is Ben Elton. Could Stewart Wee write a sitcom about William Shakespeare which is cleverly treading over old ground from his previous work Blackadder. No Stewart Wee Couldn't.
Hahahhahahahahaha good one, oh shit you're serious
Stewart Lee is really just a luvvie
Yes,but can you play Smoke on the Water?
Simply, Ben Elton SOLD OUT.
You know, if you say you’re Ben Elton you can actually get arrested and thrown in jail these days.
Ben Elton was a ray of hope for the many who saw their world being vandalised. I remember how he once used the phrase : "all style but no content" to describe the way the world was heading. We are now in the age of spin and propaganda where inventing a 'fact' is merely a matter of making your 'fact' popular enough. Finding anything that challenges your 'fact' is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Now if I wanted to discredit Ben Elton, I might start by telling my audience, three times over, that he is unpopular, therefore he is evil. Popular people can never be evil, as most Germans confirmed after they voted Hitler into power. Then I'd have to find Ben Elton guilty by association with known symbols of evil, namely George Bush and apartheid. If these insinuations are downright lies, would I get sued for slander??? Not a chance... not my fault, your Honour, it was just something I read on the internet, but it' s now been deleted. A guy who spoke passionately against racism and for peace, would most likely be in South Africa to do just that and if he really was at George Bush's inauguration, would it not be interesting to find out what sort of person voted for Bush or why? Did anybody discover these 'facts' at the time or have they sprung into life several decades later, when nobody cares? Or do you believe Ben Elton is a born again bigot? You judge.
Finally Ben Elton once made the point that Jesus would never get past a nightclub bouncer, because he was scruffy, whereas Hitler would be waved straight in 'cos he was smartly dressed. One reason I loved Ben Elton.
The really funny thing is that Bin Laden was actually extremely morally inconsistent but he's still more beloved than Ben Elton.
Maybe I'm missing the point but, to me, it sounds like he's taking the piss out of people who hate Ben Elton and he's sticking up for him. No?
you're right in so much as you're missing the point
pukeyourguts Really? So he 'hates' Ben Elton but makes a sketch about hating him filled with comically-ridiculous reasons for hating him?
atergo He didn't give any comically-ridiculous reasons for hating Ben Elton. The bit with the audience aren't reasons, it's just comically asserting (with no element of manipulation) that no-one likes Ben Elton, and then the more serious bit after about him not sticking to a set of principles and turning on the anti-establishment stuff he began with, to associate with people that are considered to be in the other camp, he's basically considered a sellout.
"So suggesting people actually hate BE more than OSB" - just comedic, not a comedic reason.
"emphasising how BE has 'changed' because "He worked with Queen and ALW" " - actual reasons, not comedically ridiculous reasons - because Ben Elton's shift in political tone is a well-documented fact, and this is what he's alluding to. Actual reasons, not comedically ridiculous ones, presented through a comedic routine.
Gold Snake I just googled it. Apparently Queen really did play gigs in apartheid SA.... And then BE worked with them... If you think that's an actual valid reason to hate someone, you're certifiable.
I'm done here. Bye
There is a lot that don't like him, I don't mind him. You'd lose a lot without him.
This isn't about Ben Elton, it's about Stewart Lee and his genius.
Genius... 🤣 You're easily impressed
@@michaelb2388: You had to edit that comment? 🤣
I like Ben Elton
Ben Elton is from Godalming
Thanks. I didn't know that.
Well you can all piss off I've always liked Ben Elton and still do - just watched him introducing Channel 4 40 anniversary of Friday Night Live and thought he was hilarious. I love some of Stewart Lee's work too but saw him live recently and didnt find it that funny.. maybe I'm just not intelligent enough to get it all...
Can we summarise this by saying Ben Elton has let himself go a bit?
Also Stephen Sanderson, have the common sense to put my name in your response when your making criticism otherwise it might look like your moaning about everyone's grammar.
+Carl Bailey **You're moaning about everyone's grammar
Stewart Lee's wedding
It’s interesting how folks package their opinions as empirical fact , Elton has written some brilliant stuff and some not so good stuff just like the Beatles but of course this is just an opinion
Yeah. It's almost as though that's exactly what Stewart Lee is encouraging his audience to think about here. 🤔
Turn on the captions haha.
Stewart.
Stewart.
He had a west end hit, you didn’t.
Let it go.
Who's more prolific a writer..?
maybe in 30 years, somebody will do a thing called "Who likes stewart lee?" :)
poor Ben Elton :'-(
Let's not forget Elton's slanderous comments about Benny Hill:
ruclips.net/video/mnJ7az0qNh4/видео.html
Which of course, he retracted and tried playing the victim a couple of days after Hill's death:
ruclips.net/video/32ZQrpbBpsE/видео.html
Well said! Benny`s writing/acting/miming/language/musicality skills FAR outshine Ben Elton
"...Ben Elton wrote the young ones"
...over thirty fucking years ago. He wrote The Young Ones over THIRTY FUCKING YEARS AGO.
He then wrote a couple of faintly amusing, if overly preachy and "right on, Missus Thatch" fist-in-the-air books about saving the environment and Big Brother before shitting out the travesty that is We Will Rock You.
I'm against capital punishment but, for inflicting that absolute gash on the world, I think he should be stoned to death. Whilst being burnt at the stake
YourOpinionIsWorthWhatIHadToPayToSufferThroughIt - he wrote The Young Ones, he co-wrote three series of Blackadder - and then there's the books; maybe not up to the standards of the others but by no means a waste of time. What have you done that's going to stand on its own two feet in 40 years? What has Stuart Lee done, for that matter, that is going to stand up that long? Jerome K Jerome wrote "Three Men in a Boat (to say nothing of the dog)" more than 130 years ago and it's still a brilliant work - Elton's still got those runs on the board and no one can take them away.
And when it comes to 'selling out' - what should he do? Continue to pretend to have an 18 year old's view of the world, for all its idealism, simplicity and lack of understanding? Why shouldn't he make some money to provide for his family? Should he give away 90% of his money? Why? Who has done that that you admire?
Ronald Lacey from Raiders of the Lost Ark has let himself go.....
Not relevent to this video featuring Terry Christian, but the comedian Stewart Lee has also let himself go though, he popped up on an American game show. I saved the footage for posterity here - twitter.com/RexOrCine/status/689220344087994369
Anyone at all has let themselves go