The ULTIMATE Nutrition, Diet And Fitness DEEP DIVE | Layne Norton X Rich Roll Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2024
- Rich sits down with renowned nutrition and fitness expert Dr. Layne Norton to talk about how social media influencers distort the science of nutrition and fitness, and how to discern fact from fiction. To read more about Layne and peruse the full show notes, go here👉🏾bit.ly/richroll820
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FILMED AND EDITED BY BLAKE CURTIS & DAN DRAKE
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00:00 Intro
00:01:28 Busting Diet Myths - Seed Oils
00:06:33 Mechanisms and Outcomes of Seed Oils
00:11:14 Conspiracy Theories and Food Industry Influence
00:12:34 Influence and Misleading Arguments
00:13:24 Cruciferous Vegetable Intake and Thyroid
00:15:07 Plant Toxins and Lectins
00:15:59 Elimination Diet and Gut Sensitivities
00:20:40 Next Myth - LDL Cholesterol Doesn’t Matter
00:21:45 Elevated LDL and Mendelian Randomization Studies
00:22:54 Lifetime Exposure Risk and Low Carb Diets
00:24:09 LDL and Heart Disease Risk
00:25:30 Metabolic Health and LDL Levels
00:26:00 Unique Subtype of High LDL
00:27:07 Weight Loss, LDL, and Metabolic Health
00:32:14 Sponsor Break
00:34:48 Carnivores and Fiber
00:44:46 Next Myth - Eating Fat to Burn Fat
00:51:10 Burning Fat vs. Losing Fat
00:52:35 Energy Balance and Body Fat
00:55:51 Short Term Responses vs. Long Term Outcomes
00:57:34 Protein and Amino Acids
01:06:07 Protein from Whole Foods vs Supplementing Amino Acid
01:09:17 Leucine and Muscle Building
01:13:05 Sponsor Break
01:15:34 Advice for Plant-Based People
01:19:30 Christopher Gardner's Twin Study
01:23:05 Impact of Dietary Choices on Health Outcomes
01:28:45 Consistency and Sustainability in Dietary Choices
01:30:52 Layne's Approach to Information Dissemination
01:35:22 Tribalism in Nutrition and Fitness
01:37:35 Anecdotal Experiences and Humility in Nutrition Science
01:41:09 Red Flags in Nutrition Advice
01:43:26 Psychology and Responsibility in Weight Loss
01:48:08 Empathy and Accountability in Coaching
01:52:23 Complexity of Human Nature and Psychology in Making Positive Changes
01:52:56 Personal Relationships and Shame Spiral
01:54:24 Food as a Coping Mechanism
01:55:17 Understanding Food Habits and Psychological Barriers
01:56:20 Challenges of Moderating Food and Mindset Matters
01:58:10 Defining Processed Foods and Mindset in Dietary Choices
02:01:17 The Binary Nature of Dietary Choices
02:02:17 Mindset and Flexibility in Food Choices
02:04:32 The Disinhibition Reflex and Flexible Mindset
02:05:33 Behavioral Habits, Mindset, and Decision Making
02:08:08 Layne's Thoughts on Making Lasting Behavioral Change
02:11:38 Simplifying Weight Loss and Caloric Intake
02:13:29 Calories, Energy Expenditure, and Estimation
02:15:35 Personal Responsibility in Caloric Intake
02:16:29 Hormonal Dysregulation and BMR
02:17:10 Obese Resistant and Appetite Regulation
02:18:09 Spontaneous Movement and Energy Expenditure
02:19:59 Exercise and Appetite Regulation
02:23:39 Societal Changes and Appetite Dysregulation
02:29:28 Science Communication and Trust
02:32:33 Admitting Bias and Trustworthiness
02:34:25 Understanding Risk and Credentials
02:36:46 Nobel Prize Syndrome and Cognitive Dissonance
02:38:03 Galaxy Brain
02:38:44 Authority and Bias
02:39:54 Healthy Eating Patterns
02:42:18 Funding Sources and Integrity
02:44:57 Real Experts and Communication
02:53:35 Debunking and Self-Policing
02:57:06 Responsibility of Platforms
03:00:48 Forming a New Identity and Lifestyle Changes
03:07:00 Analysis Paralysis
03:08:28 Courage to Take the Step
03:11:21 Learning from Setbacks
03:14:04 Disconnecting Feelings from Action
03:16:03 The Power of Why
03:17:02 Mood Follows Action
03:20:40 Building Momentum
03:22:36 Credits
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your video editing sucks!
Please interview Gil Carvalo from Nutrition made simple! :)
@@johnnyfog8134and joel fuhrman md
😊😊😊😊1
I rarely comment but as someone who has been following Layne for a long time I must say that he surely is my go to source when I need reliable fitness and nutrition info. Not only does he have a phD in nutriton but also knows how to communicate his thoughts well and most importantly is honest and has integrity which is a rare sight in the industry these days since most of the “health gurus” aka charlatans/scammers have an agenda of selling you something and always spewing claims that support their narrative even if they are not factually correct. Layne is such a breath of fresh air!
My favourite is ‘plant chompers’. Also check out mark Mattson re fasting.
Integrity ? Are we forgetting when Layne cheated on his pregnant wife ?
Unfortunately, the sure numbers of subscribers of keto, carnivore and IF content creator have a way bigger outreach. It reflects the level of bs people are subscribing to
I haven’t yet listened to this podcast- just downloaded, but am super intrigued already.
I love Dr Layne's no bullsh*t approach. Cutting through the noise and giving us facts. 👏🙏
Hahah is that so? Hardly an MD. He’s a stupid jock with a child-like ego.
I love how far this podcast has come. And how open Rich is to the guest, no matter how different their lifestyle is at the time of the interview. Fascinating and beautiful! Full respect to both of these giants.
Gotten in the best shape with the least stress following Laynes stuff over the years. Not to mention he’s funny as hell and calls out the industry BS for what it is whenever it’s put out. Keep doing gods work Layne💯
My man quotes Hitchens razor often, which must have some impact on his worldview 🤔😂
If you dont mind me asking, what would was the most impactful advice of his that you used ?
@@s.s.tillmanesq.305all of his stuff
@@s.s.tillmanesq.305
Overall just the simplification he’s contributed to making diet/nutrition as a whole, and he’s done that by consistently analyzing and debunking every new fad diet or nutritional strategy since the early 2000s. All while also correcting himself where he was wrong about things when new data comes out like his strong backing of BCAA’s early on, to now calling it for what it is just not being that important if your nutrition is on point. The Keep it Simple Stupid approach is how I’d like to think of it when it comes to Layne, and for me it just made all the scientific nuance really understandable from an early age
same!
Layne Norton - & Rich Roll - Thank you for your transparency, honesty, vulnerability, and wisdom. In a time when there's so much noise - lies and cynicism - it is wonderfully empowering to hear honest, truthful, and insightful thoughts and discussions. I appreciate this conversation, particularly the last half hour.
Whenever I am not sure about some specific topic, I know I can go to Layne and get the most objective scientific consensus on the matter. Trust Dr. Layne!
Absolutely love Layne, and how he’s 100% fact driven. As non biased as anyone can be, and always willing to change his opinion based on new information. It’s a rare sight in this industry. I really appreciate you having him on your podcast, and having him bust a few of those myths. Thanks Rich, and thanks Layne!!!
just because Layne isn't a vegan doesn't mean he's not a great person who's helping a lot of people. It's great to see Rich discussing very important topics with him.
Could not agree more 😊
Would just like to add that although people have to be responsible for changes in how they eat, for example, it is important to realize that in poor communities there are few grocery stores and they don’t carry all the beautiful fruits and veggies my store does and surprisingly prices are higher. I was also surprised by the very limited food available at the store on the Navajo reservation. We were camping and needed to resupply but found very little fresh produce. On the other hand most of these communities have every type of fast food place with low cost menu options. There’s also the whole idea of being emotionally attached to the food you grew up on which in poorer families was largely carbs. Larger community level changes are also needed, there’s a lot of research on this as well. A great help was allowing people to use food stamps at farmers markets for example.
I would say it’s better that he is balanced. All food is good.
If he was vegan, he would be great to animals too, which would make him even greater in the context!
He could be helping humans AND animals at the same time. It's not an either-or scenario.
I had the privilege and blessing of running into Layne in the airport, and ended up sitting next to him on a flight … Just such a super genuine, honest, and KNOWLEDGEABLE guy…. So glad Rich got him on the RR podcast!
Love the calmer interviews with Layne. Easier to forward these to people that do not already know him.
I followed the FODMAP diet and figured out that onions and garlic really hurt my stomach. So I eliminated them but I eat LOTS of other fruits and vegetables every single day - lots of salads and pineapples and other fruits every day. Eating fruits and vegetables are GOOD for us. I have no problems with my gut anymore now that I made changes - including DAILY exercise (yoga, peloton). Thank you for doing this video,
I’m sooo frustrated. I freaking love onions and garlic and ate them all my life with no problem, but i’m beginning to figure out that those two, along cauliflower and cabbage are the triggers of my really uncomfortable bloating I’ve stated to experience after moving countries…i’m so sad about it because I don’t want to stop eating them! Garlic is life 😭🧄💨
@@Seanonyoutube I'm with you on that - I ate onions and garlic my whole life too - even a little bit of purple onion destroys my stomach so I avoid them now - but the plus side is that we figured out what was hurting us and our breath is better Sean :-)
@@Wendys_lovinglife no nooo i’m not giving up lol, I noticed the bloating went away for a while after taking antibiotics…I’ll continue to search for solutions! 🧄🧅🧄🧅
What's quantity of onions/garlic are y'all eating? I usually use them to season stuff, very low quantities that would seem unlikely to be an issue. I always heard the old wisdom around onions and garlic is that they were medicinal and meant to be eaten in small quantities, and I kind of follow that by chance. Or maybe you're vampires...
@@limitisillusion7 doesn’t really matter how much I eat honestly even a small amount lately has been causing me bloating all night…obviously more is worse…
rich, thank you for being a great interviewer. You have a great way of summarizing and getting to the point.
I agree. I am so happy when Rich says "yes, I get it" and moves on to the important detail or another question. Many interviewers want to talk too much themselves, or think the listeners are dummies and need to hear everything explained 10 times.
I love this level of respect and high mindedness in this discussion. Internet nutrition influencers are a guilty pleasure and I often know it’s probably not scientifically sound…..but it’s oh so alluring. I am refreshed listening to the evidence behind all of these topics and especially the protein debate. I learned more today than I have in a long while. Thank you for always contributing to the greater good in your podcasts.
Thank you Rich for these interviews that you do . I love that you do so much research in your shows . You are inspiring many lives !
This may be my favourite rich episode ❤ thank you layne 🤯
Man, I love your content, Rich! Thanks, brother.
Layne is the GOAT. Unbiased and so informative.
Thanks for bringing great people on ❤
This is going to be a good one. I am a huge follower of Layne and his content. He has helped me so much!
Really great discussion Rich & Layne - what I truly love about all these podcasts is it creates better SELF AGENCY for everyone. Thank you both for all you do in educating, informing, aligning. Peace. Plants.
Just listened to this for the third time. These two brilliant men give me comfort and hope. Thank whatever benevolent power in the universe put them here. ❤
Loving this episode. Rich asks excellent questions and Layne gives very easy to understand answers. The combination of these two guys is awesome.
I'm halfway through and this is a great conversation. Very accessible and engaging.
Great interview. 👏 I do think that while diet choices are not binary for weight loss and adherence, they're pretty close to binary for the environment and longevity, no? I don't know any earth scientists (I am one) or actual longevity researchers (Attia is not one) who think diets with a lot of meat work in their fields.
BEST 3+ hours I’ve spent in listening hours in a minute…thank you Layne and Rich!!🙏🙌
I appreciate this convo, there's so much nuance. I think people get so up in arms about nutrition because it is literally who we are. We are what we eat, so when that is challenged it can feel deeply critical regarding our choices, preferences, blindspots, and insecurities. Layne looks so much like Joey Carbstrong, someone who'd be great on the pod. Rich, your beard is at its maximum glory.
amazing!!!! love your podcasts always😍
I really enjoyed this episode. I follow Dr. Norton for about a year now, since I saw him on the Huberman lab. He gives really good information. I like his What the Fitness videos & Educational videos. I am now on a fitness program with a fitness & nutrition coach. We measure everything. I found out at the start that I was already eating more than 2g/kg of protein every day (I am very light, and I eat a lot). I did gain muscle mass in this training program of 8 weeks (5 strength workouts per week, 1 day cardio, 1 day liss). Now going for round two next week. The great thing of gaining muscle mass on a plant based diet is that it's so low in saturated fats, and so high in fiber. I am lifelong vegetarian, and vegan since 2017.
What a great conversation! I appreciate both perspectives. I’m a natural skeptic, and although I am plant-based and have been for almost 30 years, I try not to make that my identity. My goal is to always stay open and listen. When I hear somebody say something that intrigues me, I do my own research and I aim and look at both sides. There are people that I look to and you both are on that short list. I love the analogy “the house is on fire… Just get out!“ with regard to obesity, and really any addiction or issue you’re stuck on. The study Layne loosely repeated with regard to Democrats and Republicans and long held beliefs being difficult to shift is interesting… I saw that through the Covid pandemic… There is so much new information and things we’ve learned having gone through the last three years. People that followed what they were told, and believed was the best action are having difficulty considering that the alternative may have been better. Critical thinking skills have waned, and we look to others to make our decisions often times without question. We need to always question, to always ask why, to always ask for more information. These conversations are so helpful to me and both of you have made a huge impact on humanity. Consider about the story of the boy on the beach throwing a sea star back into the ocean, and the question of what difference did it make tossing back one sea star… And the response “it made a difference to that one”. if you touch one life you’ve touched 1000… Thank you both❤❤
Great comment!
You are fighting the good fight Layne. I’ve always had great respect for you and you actually motivated me with this discussion to not give up trying to tackle this whole health thing. 🙂
Love Layne!!! He is such a trusted authority on nutrition!
Cannot WAIT to listen to this whole 3+ hour interview!
Layne is the best! Love listening to him !
Thanks for bringing Layne on... I love watching semi-opposite ends of the diet spectrum as it keeps me balanced.
Thank you, Rich Roll, once again. I'd not heard about Layne before, and now my life is better. Layne, what an effort you must put in, to have become such a credible health science filter for good information. Thank you!
this was a really good interview full of information and insights, thanks for putting this out there.
This is extremely helpful and informative, thank you gentlemen
Layne is not shouting into the void! I hear you brother! Thank you!
Always impressed by your podcasts, thanks for you professional approach with all your guests.
Layne was my coach like 15 years ago. He was awesome! Leanest I ever got, and his diet system he helped me to get there was so simple and allowed pretty much any food group. I've continued to learn from him ever since.
Thank you for this excellent information and wonderful interview Rich! As a 90 percent raw vegan I eat a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables and I love it! Occasionally a will have a small amount of grain and cooked vegetables. God bless you and thank you again 🙏🙏
Would just like to say, I gained a deeper respect for @richroll as a result of this conversation. His preparation was impeccable, and his subject matter expertise was really evident.
Agreed! Excellent interviewer
Thank you SO MUCH for talking about lectins. I have been needlessly worried the last few years wondering if my eating lectins was doing harm!
What a legend. Loved listening to this.
Amazing episode! I have never seen Layne before! Following now ❤
I just wanted to comment from the other end. I've watched Layne's stuff for a long time, and watched this initially because of him. I didn't know until about a 1/3 of the way through the podcast that Rich was plant-based, because there was no hesitation or gravitation away from discourse or the science being presented. I appreciate Rich's openness to both human congenial conversation and for non-dogmatic approaches.
I got SO MUCH out of this interview. Thank you both.
Excellent presentation. Well Done, Sirs.
This was such a good conversation.
💯💯oh my gosh, the part where you mentioned about Ethan’s storey and him saying “ if the house is on fire just get out of the house, figure out what caused the fire later “ huge light bulb 💡 moment 👌💯
Great interview! Thanks!!
Rich, I’m from a war zone and I’ve been through a lot of devastating circumstances. You are absolutely one of my favorite people in the world!! You really saved my life and in many ways I owe my life to you. I’m excited to share my story of transformation with you at some point and what a leading role you played in it.
But I also wanted to share how your stance on diet has been a bit troubling for me. I am suffering from colitis and IBS and nothing I’ve tried helped me manage my symptoms. Carnivore diet was the only thing that fixed my symptoms and I’ve improved by 80-90%. I don’t like the diet and I’m not really a carnivore enthusiast. But I must say I can’t argue how beneficial it has been for me based my personal hands-on experience.
I wanted to share just to provide a different perspective.
Love what you do and please continue changing lives!! You’re my biggest inspiration and I have a photo of you in my room and my phone wallpaper 😂
exclusion diets and anecdotes are well covered in the podcast
Great interview!
Amazing podcast. Subscribed
I love that you had Layne on the show! One of the few people I trust along with you in nutritional spaces.
Love what Rich says at 1:39, I feel the same way myself. While some things can be obvious, there are still so many variables in different platforms at play of any one individual.
Layne Norton is great! Watch some of his videos, with an open mind/ear. Layne does not villanize any diet/food, he simply, explains the scientific breakdown of various studies/data and explains it so that even us, with biases, can understand. What he does do is, "debunks" influencers who cherry-picks one detail/claim to villanize a particular food, food group and/or diet, to fit their narrative/agenda. Layne Norton is someone to trust with the info/content he puts out. He explains how he works/thinks, in this video, if you watched it to the end. He makes total sense! 💕👍 💕
Conversation enjoyed ❤
Big supporter of your work Rich Roll. But I always dislike the subtle defensiveness that comes through on vegan protein, b12, etc. As a vegan I think we need to acknowledge the challenges and we decide vegan anyway.
The fact that things like very active cardio, hiit and so on leads to great electrolytes lossthar leads to massive hunger thar leads to overeating and "i can treat myself today" (and its never the right foods that your body is actually trying to get) really needs to be talked about more because this is the most common mistake for newbies in fitness
Informative. Good guest!
I have higher LDL, high HDL and low triglycerides combo they mention at 26mins. I have asked the doctor if it's really a problem with that combo. Layne's statement that you could be healthier with lower LDL and that combo makes it simple and clearer
I'm a senior who had a heart attack (,Minoca, no blockage). My hdl is high with my trigs low and ldl high. I'm going off red meat for my ldl. I liked what Rich said about rolling the dice. Thanks guys. Good talk.
I coach a girls xc team, and I'm finding this podcast to be very helpful. This is an antidote to the flood of craziness that's out there. 🎉
1:34:00 about tribalism is pure gold, thanks you! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻❤️
Idk about every seed oil, and they are not all the same obviously. But people in the longest living countries been eating tons of sesame oil for so long.
This is great! Love seeing some of the meat eaters finally cheering on fiber and plant based foods for microbiome. Thank you rich for this! Im trying to be open to hearing more from these kind of folks although never changing my vegan diet
Layne is the 🐐
Oh wow! I’m on the edge of my seat for this one!!🍎🙏
I haven’t watched a rich roll podcast in a while. I mostly listen. When did Rich get guns!?💪🏻
Great guest
Thank you
Great podcast!!
Interesting. I’ve been on elimination diet for 1.5yrs. 95% carnivore It’s become very clear which other foods (fruits and veg). I feel better than when I was 40 (I’m 68). Rhuemetoid arthritis correcting itself. IBS gone. Itchy flaky ears Gone. Best bathroom habits ever now I’ve found 2 things that don’t ‘trigger’ a negative effect. Those are Tree ripened avocado. And plant ripened Dragon Fruit. I only eat what grows in My yard. No poison ever
The counter-argument I could see to the “get all your protein in capsule format” argument is that protein is very satiating. It makes you feel full. I have never had a more filling diet, one that left me so stuffed I couldn’t eat anymore and kept me full all day, than one that contains a serving of lean protein (whatever that means for you) and 2 servings of fruit or vegetables (non-starchy) for every meal. No snacks but that’s for practical reasons, I couldn’t eat them if I wanted to.
I use that to cut before climbing season and man… it is difficult to actually eat enough calories to fuel me on that. Has nothing to do with the macros, just practically speaking it’s very difficult to over-eat that way, almost to a fault.
As an endocrine therapist and nutritionist I totally respect Layne Norton....cuts through all the crap and gets to the science...and not just cherry picking data.
This was awesome
Love the quote on quotes used from Modern Wisdom. Gave it a Chris Williamson x Hormozi vibe haha
Seed oils were brought to attention as. being detrimental to health by Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn , Cardiologist who says that research shows the damaging affects on the heart and specifically the endothelial lining. He is now just one of quite a few Cardiologists who agree with him and the research that is now out there. Again, we are speaking about the oil (refined) not from the whole source.
Yes esselstyn doesn't allow meat or saturated fat either as well as not allowing other oils for heart health. He's big on consuming lots or green leafy plants.
@@marleriYes, all oils not just seed.
Esselstyn does not single out seed oils. He singles out oils period, and even fat content from whole foods. He is not doing this based on science. He points to one "study" where people consumed a large amount of oils and it measured their "endothelial health" based on this test called "flow mediated dilation." And extrapolated this to mean that oil consumption would permanently harm the endothelium, but there's no outcome data that isolates oil as a singular cause of such harm. Esselstyn doesn't want his patients even eating nuts or avocados he's so fat-phobic.
Dr Esselstyn is not and has never been a cardiologist. He was a surgeon.
Seed oils increase LDL susceptibility to oxidation which is injurious to the endothelium and potentiates atherosclerosis ultimately. Let these oils lubricate machinery, but not mankind.
Love Layne. Great
Wow - kudos to both these guys for doing this. I kind of thought of them as "polar opposites" but this is proof that people can find common ground if they choose to. Diet doesn't need to be a religious war--
I'd be interested to know if he's ever read any of the studies about telomeres and longevity and plant-based vs animal product protein.
Really appreciate that you cover the entire spectrum of possibilities with your guess. It’s important to be open minded however , he did not make me change my mind at all. Plant based for life ….and love as a mojo !
2:49:00 I'm glad I powered through the first 30min of this video. It was indeed quite technical at the beginning, but then I started getting it.
Imagine having the knowledge to know that a plant-exclusive diet is healthy. 💪
Imagine lacking the empathy to choose veganism. 🌱
Do you eat plants from conventional farmlands?
Do you know where the crops come from that are fed to farmed animals?@@lucasmccabe4941. Vegans minimise the harms. Omnivores maximise them.
imagine not being a sanctimonious douchebag.
Best I've heard on the subject matter.
Because he gives you soft answers?
Food is culture. It’s heritage. It’s one of the things you partake of daily. Sharing a meal is huge. That’s what makes people buy in so deeply.
What a great episode, thank you. Can I ask why you wear both a Whoop and an Apple Watch or Garmin? What do you get from the Whoop that you do not get from your other devices?
Love Layne.
❤️👊🏻💯 oh man such a great pod, Layne is such a powerhouse, Rich you are also ❤️💯👊🏻 get Ethan if possible 🙋🏻♂️
One of the reasons Dr Gardner's twin study was not isocaloric was to compare satiety between the diets.
like i said, it's not a criticism, just limitation
You just got Rich Rolled!
I'm curious why when the topic of B12 comes up, no one ever seems to mention seaweed as a way to supplement? I wrap up salad greens in organic Nori seaweed sheets all the time. They have Iodine as well. Am I missing something?
Excellent
Thanks, guys, 3h and 20km walk in the books :D
Rich, thank you for calmly saying the things that I yell at my TV, specifically surrounding eating plants.
Layne is new to me but it’s exciting to find a smart person who’s so knowledgeable and not just hawking a particular point of view. BTW I’m that person who has high(borderline) LDL and high HDL and low triglycerides, no doctors have told me it’s rare altho I guess it could be. I’ve had this profile for a while (when eating a regular diet) and it hasn’t changed much since I started to eat a low carb diet except maybe triglycerides getting lower. Ive refused to take statins because my ratio is good. But as an older adult I’ve developed Type 1 diabetes after having a virus (it’s the autoimmune type) so I’ve relented because both Peter Attia and a cardiologist I went to see said the lower the LDL or apoB the better and either type of diabetic should just be on a statin. I’m taking the lowest amount you can take and I can’t believe the amount of decrease of LDL with no side effects.
Please interview Gil Carvalo from Nutrition made simple too!!!!! :)
GREAT!!!!
Health is real estate