@@darkknightwithanidea1845 Well, I mean Warner screwed him over. He also makes 200 million dollar movies. Not exactly the same as the independent community.
@@deanpeter2on Hey Dean sorry for that man. I'm an artist as well. I went to art college but the business side is another world. We around the same age. Yeah someone was saying some of the similar things you said to dealing with music. I have done some small things but learning about these digital platforms can be a little bit tricky. You have given some great advice. The best places I believe right now are RUclips which won't go out anytime soon. The US gov is on Tik Tok. Other place is Amazon Prime. I had no idea what Amazon Prime was until I found out you can put your own content on it. I read an article about Dick Wolf who said the next thing is going to be the streaming services for content in the entertainment world in the next 10 years. I believe he is right. Thanks for let us know. Main thing I believe all art schools should teach besides the technique is the Monetization methods for artists. Appreciate your video.
Not a filmmaker (in the traditional sense) but I think you're absolutely right about just posting your films to RUclips or Vimeo. These platforms are just as "real" if not more "real" than any of the other streaming services these days. Bigger potential reach and viewership numbers. Fuck those middle men distributors. Anyone getting in the way of an artist and their audience and/or profit can rot in hell. Chicken Soup for the Soul sounds so delicious though.
I really appreciate your honesty about this topic, Dean! My first feature, a horror comedy, is playing in a few festivals right now and my producer and I were just discussing the "distributor vs self-distribution" dilemma earlier today, so this is funny timing. I'm curious how much success other filmmakers have had with self-distribution and what platforms they've used. It's looking more and more intriguing.
I am a Filmmaker that has successfully had my first Broadway distribution and I just wanted to give a couple of notes that I went through getting my first film out there. Having legal representation is everything never cheap out on having a attorney look over the contract that you’re signing. For instance, the contract I signed only gives my distribution company for years of rights to my film and then the rates automatically revert back to me and they also only have certain distribution control. I would highly suggest you hiring attorney might cost you 500 $600 but you probably can get the rights back to your film as you did not agree to that other company distributing your movie
You are practicality the only one I know out there really giving solid & honest advice to film makers & trust me . Your message is being heard & distributed faster than greased lightening to others so maintain the rage & keep that banner flying high for all to see 🎥🎬💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💯💯💪🏼👍
We just need a few companies who are good at SEO for a realistic rate and then just do our own socials and have a WIX account or similar and charge like $2 per view. That's it. Can't give enough thumbs up here.
Great video! Getting scammed was my biggest fear, that's why I put my film on my channel. I have complete control. Unless you're getting distributed by a well known company, its better to distribute yourself. I'll probably do the same with my next feature.
I discovered this after signing with a distributor. We will see how it goes but I have low expectations of profit. But, having a distributor looks good to private investors. I went through the whole process and spent tens of thousands of dollars but got a contract for my 2nd film and have now made more money than I spent on my first. I probably got lucky because I am in a niche market (chess) though so I think your overall point is important.
Hey Dean. I am currently working on my first film and planning to release it on RUclips regardless nobody knows me. At the moment it's the best platform for free filmmakers. I have a few friends professional super-talented filmmakers who spend a lot of money on the film festival and still with ZERO results after many years. Stay alert, sharks are everywhere. Useful video. All the best 🤝
Unfortunately, this is the only current way to actually get eyes on your film. Assuming, you put it on a platform that already has eyes. Unless you're getting eyes on it, there is really no reason to even bother making it.
The only issue to self publishing your own feature length film is in order to see decent results you already need to have a large substantial audience/subscribers to give you the decent revenue. Otherwise most people don't have a large online presence enough to advertise their films properly. Sometimes traditional distribution could work depending on their situation
I plan on filming and releasing all of my films on youtube. I've heard way to many stories of indy filmmakers getting taken advantage of or their films getting ripped off after pitching it. I'd rather my film get ripped off with it on this platform showing I created the concept first. About to watch your film "What Children Do" right now.
That was a great film. Don't want to say too much but I love how it really touched base on how some children act in times of lose even in adulthood. So true among many family dynamics today.@@deanpeter2on
If you can’t the rights back to your film perhaps you could do a little editing and call it the directors cut. This “new” film may not be bound up with Chicken Soup and then you can distribute this version of your film yourself where you want to, ie Amazon, RUclips, Vimeo, etc.
Unfortunately, if Chicken Soup is embroiled in bankruptcy, your rights may not revert back to you unless your contact has a "rights reversion" clause in the case of insolvency.
I hear ya, I have invested a lot of time and money into writing directing and producing two feature films. Both films got global distribution, the first film I know made the distributor money and I saw nothing. The second one I thought I'd learned how not to get taken. I did, in fact, actually get paid a little bit, but nothing close to recouping my investment, so it was still a massive disappointment. If I were to make another feature, I would simply go the full indie route on distro, at least that way, even if you don't earn a lot, you know you're not getting screwed. I have both my films for free on my RUclips channel despite the fact that they are currently with distributors, I simply switched to non-exclusive deals to give me the freedom to share them. I don't make money on my channel, but it gets me some views and subs so it's something. Depressing I know.
What you are describing is dead in what we’ve been discussing in house - night & day . Solution is exactly what you say - independent promotion & distribution through a platform like YT or Vimeo - for now where YOU WILL BE SEEN & you can control the information that’s needed to follow through. CHANGE IS COMING 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼🎬🎬 we just need to stick together like Coppola & Lucas did in the 70’s - BE LIKE Zoetrope studios ,rebel against the institutions & BE INDEPENDENT! Nothing can stay the same forever. 🎬🎬🎥🎥💯💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼🎬🎥💯
The internet. It's going to change everything. I started releasing my online animated series yesterday and the trailers have gotten a combined 119,954 views, the show itself (One episode on Monday, another episode yesterday evening) has accrued 19,665 views in less than 48 hours. Since we started development in late 2022, the channel went from 70 subscribers to 5,152 on Feb 29th and has risen to 8,301 since then. Not trying to be flashy with these numbers at all - but trying to showcase that, there is rock hard evidence of what your content is doing when you have full control over it. Our production had a zero dollar budget, was made by volunteers, and had nothing in the way of marketing aside from posting updates and little sneak peaks. The "old-school conventional" way of film distribution is all but dead. Like you mentioned, it's a cycle of someone buying the last company for the bottom dollar. Nobody is ever going to care about your film like you do -- so why not have full control over it and let that create the future opportunities? This is the end of my TedTalk.
Contracts, Need a lawyer, Accountant.. If they breached contract you send a cease and desist. If you copyrighted the movie and didn't transfer copyright then It is federal court.
Sounds like old fashioned breeches of contract (assuming you had a contract) so you could take your rights back and have could with previous distributors too.
It´s so hard to understand what is the best way for indy filmmakers. For me it´s only accepting the "old fashioned" distribution way, if it´s really a big, known distributor. Eighter it´s that or I will send it straight to RUclips. I mean look at Joel Haver or the guys from "That´s a bad idea". It seems to work and no one tells them how to make their videos. So for me there are just those two options.
Meh. Hard disagree here. If you can get distribution take it. These peoples entire jobs are working this side of the industry. There’s virtually no indie filmmakers that can navigate distribution like a professional company. Love the content though!
I'm honestly curious if you actually know the answer. It's history repeating itself with new technology. Take away the technology aspect of it and the problem is the same as it was a long long time ago. Therefore, the solution is the same. Sorry for being vague. I just want people to think it out.
I don't know the answer. Finding an audience has always been a struggle for filmmakers and there have always been bad actors willing to prey on us. I'm still trying to find the best answer.
Sorry for the 2nd post, but sadly, the only way to actually be successful in the world of feature films is to make something with full studio backing/distribution on the front end. The "indy" feature scene is dead, it's so dead it's not even funny. Sure, if you have a cult following and make cult movies like horror or sci-fi, you may be able to sell an indy film for $30k to someone who will throw it up on Tubi for you. That's really not much of a deal honestly. Without marketing, nobody will ever know it exists, so how will anyone watch it? If the idea is to go to festivals, that doesn't work either. Unless you're working in Hollywood and have excellent connections to well known actors, who are willing to set aside their fees AND you have a SAG negotiator (usually a producer) to allow you to use them, both are horribly expensive, then you're screwed anyway. Heck, even short films need to have SAG actors. The contract to get SAG actors, even for no-budget films is still $5k. You could make the best, most beautiful film imaginable, but if there is no name attached, no real distributor will even help. So it's always going to be a fail. SO what do you do with a feature film? You give it away. You spend money on advertising yourself through social media and RUclips. You try to get eyes on it and build a cult following AT YOUR EXPENSE and maybe... just maybe, you'll get some people to help fund your next project.
I coulda told ya years ago you'd be scammed. Everyone is scammed. I've worked on fully funded by distributor feature films, two of which had limited theatrical releases and ya know what? We were scammed on all of them by the distributor. One film, they sold off without us even knowing. One film they charged us $200k for marketing expenses, even though there was zero actually spent and the film basically languished for a few years before anyone actually saw it. One film the studio fired the filmmakers (us) when we delivered our first cut. They proceeded to spend over 100k hiring a new team to "fix" the film. Then they came crawling back to us at the end because they realized, the film was what it was. They re-hired us with an apology and more pay to finish where we had left off 9 months prior. I actually wound up doing the final delivery in fact, what a cluster. The last film we did with that distributor, wound up being the best. They actually gave us metrics and paid us. WOW so after 3 other films, we wound up being successful lol.
$700/hour. So you spend money you don't have, go into debt in order to get what, your asset back? It's now an old tainted asset and you just lost a bunch of money. The entire point of this video is the basic fact that he's being scammed out of money, hiring a lawyer is simply more of the same scam. You're just blowing more cash ya don't have as an indy filmmaker.
Come on guys, let's be serious... it makes no sense to release entire films on RUclips, neither for the public nor economically. It ONLY makes sense when you have a LARGE audience or if you make feature films as a hobby and don't want to make a living from it. Maybe try not to be fooled by fraudulent distributors. There are serious independent companies that allow you to have an audience both at the cinema and in streaming like Utopia and not two thousand views on RUclips. I don't want to sound mean, but I feel like there are a whole number of RUclipsrs trying to sell RUclips as the future of feature films and that's wrong. Everyone is free to release their own movie on youtube but if you want to do it seriously and not as a hobby it makes no sense whichever way you look at it.
in Hollywood, getting screwed by film festivals and such. Actually I had gotten screwed back in the late 90s but at least where wan't a youtube back then. So I said fuck it. But, alas, stil working in Hwood after all these years. So, ok, I did not become the new George Lucas. but at least I m not George Contanza either@@deanpeter2on
Filmmakers owning their own movies is the future, one of the biggest benefits of the internet
100%
How does anyone know your movie exists tho?
Just ask Nolan ! Look what happened when he said NO to WB with Oppenheimer a billion $$$ in gross & 15 % went to him with 7 Oscars 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼🎥🎬
@@darkknightwithanidea1845 Well, I mean Warner screwed him over. He also makes 200 million dollar movies. Not exactly the same as the independent community.
@@deanpeter2on Hey Dean sorry for that man. I'm an artist as well. I went to art college but the business side is another world. We around the same age. Yeah someone was saying some of the similar things you said to dealing with music. I have done some small things but learning about these digital platforms can be a little bit tricky. You have given some great advice. The best places I believe right now are RUclips which won't go out anytime soon. The US gov is on Tik Tok. Other place is Amazon Prime. I had no idea what Amazon Prime was until I found out you can put your own content on it. I read an article about Dick Wolf who said the next thing is going to be the streaming services for content in the entertainment world in the next 10 years. I believe he is right. Thanks for let us know. Main thing I believe all art schools should teach besides the technique is the Monetization methods for artists. Appreciate your video.
Not a filmmaker (in the traditional sense) but I think you're absolutely right about just posting your films to RUclips or Vimeo. These platforms are just as "real" if not more "real" than any of the other streaming services these days. Bigger potential reach and viewership numbers. Fuck those middle men distributors. Anyone getting in the way of an artist and their audience and/or profit can rot in hell. Chicken Soup for the Soul sounds so delicious though.
If they gave me free chicken soup for life I might change my tune.
What if it wasn't for life, it was just for the soul? @@deanpeter2on
Thanks for sharing. It helps other filmmakers. I'm sorry this happened to you.
Thanks for watching!
I really appreciate your honesty about this topic, Dean! My first feature, a horror comedy, is playing in a few festivals right now and my producer and I were just discussing the "distributor vs self-distribution" dilemma earlier today, so this is funny timing. I'm curious how much success other filmmakers have had with self-distribution and what platforms they've used. It's looking more and more intriguing.
I’d love to hear from others about their experience as well.
I am a Filmmaker that has successfully had my first Broadway distribution and I just wanted to give a couple of notes that I went through getting my first film out there.
Having legal representation is everything never cheap out on having a attorney look over the contract that you’re signing.
For instance, the contract I signed only gives my distribution company for years of rights to my film and then the rates automatically revert back to me and they also only have certain distribution control.
I would highly suggest you hiring attorney might cost you 500 $600 but you probably can get the rights back to your film as you did not agree to that other company distributing your movie
You are practicality the only one I know out there really giving solid & honest advice to film makers & trust me . Your message is being heard & distributed faster than greased lightening to others so maintain the rage & keep that banner flying high for all to see 🎥🎬💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💯💯💪🏼👍
We just need a few companies who are good at SEO for a realistic rate and then just do our own socials and have a WIX account or similar and charge like $2 per view. That's it. Can't give enough thumbs up here.
Great video! Getting scammed was my biggest fear, that's why I put my film on my channel. I have complete control. Unless you're getting distributed by a well known company, its better to distribute yourself. I'll probably do the same with my next feature.
I discovered this after signing with a distributor. We will see how it goes but I have low expectations of profit. But, having a distributor looks good to private investors. I went through the whole process and spent tens of thousands of dollars but got a contract for my 2nd film and have now made more money than I spent on my first. I probably got lucky because I am in a niche market (chess) though so I think your overall point is important.
Love your channel Dean ✌🏼
Appreciate it!
Yes! Appreciate this viseo. All the best going forward ❤
Hey Dean. I am currently working on my first film and planning to release it on RUclips regardless nobody knows me. At the moment it's the best platform for free filmmakers. I have a few friends professional super-talented filmmakers who spend a lot of money on the film festival and still with ZERO results after many years. Stay alert, sharks are everywhere. Useful video. All the best 🤝
Let us know when we're able to see your film!
Unfortunately, this is the only current way to actually get eyes on your film. Assuming, you put it on a platform that already has eyes. Unless you're getting eyes on it, there is really no reason to even bother making it.
Interesting and tragic. Thank you for sharing this.
Such a bummer man! Imma go watch your film, saved it in Prime!
Thanks man!
The only issue to self publishing your own feature length film is in order to see decent results you already need to have a large substantial audience/subscribers to give you the decent revenue. Otherwise most people don't have a large online presence enough to advertise their films properly. Sometimes traditional distribution could work depending on their situation
That’s a good point.
I plan on filming and releasing all of my films on youtube. I've heard way to many stories of indy filmmakers getting taken advantage of or their films getting ripped off after pitching it. I'd rather my film get ripped off with it on this platform showing I created the concept first. About to watch your film "What Children Do" right now.
Totally, at least on RUclips you're the one with control.
Sadly, it's the only way.
That was a great film. Don't want to say too much but I love how it really touched base on how some children act in times of lose even in adulthood. So true among many family dynamics today.@@deanpeter2on
As more and more people do this RUclips is becoming a better place for movies. When you upload it, I'll definitely give it a watch!
If you can’t the rights back to your film perhaps you could do a little editing and call it the directors cut. This “new” film may not be bound up with Chicken Soup and then you can distribute this version of your film yourself where you want to, ie Amazon, RUclips, Vimeo, etc.
Ooooh that’s a really good idea.
Unfortunately, if Chicken Soup is embroiled in bankruptcy, your rights may not revert back to you unless your contact has a "rights reversion" clause in the case of insolvency.
Ah that sucks…
Hope you get the rights back man, that was a fun movie to work on, nevermind a fun movie to watch, and deserves a wide audience!
Literally couldn't have done it without you!
that explains the bounce back email from my connect at Chick Soup for the Soul Ent
You're doing the lord's work! And Zabar's is amazing too!
Love Zabar's.
nice , what was the font in the thumbnail?
2 - also great video. nothing but truth in it :)
I hear ya, I have invested a lot of time and money into writing directing and producing two feature films. Both films got global distribution, the first film I know made the distributor money and I saw nothing. The second one I thought I'd learned how not to get taken. I did, in fact, actually get paid a little bit, but nothing close to recouping my investment, so it was still a massive disappointment. If I were to make another feature, I would simply go the full indie route on distro, at least that way, even if you don't earn a lot, you know you're not getting screwed. I have both my films for free on my RUclips channel despite the fact that they are currently with distributors, I simply switched to non-exclusive deals to give me the freedom to share them. I don't make money on my channel, but it gets me some views and subs so it's something. Depressing I know.
Thanks for letting me know, I'll check them out!
Oh thanks, I seriously wasn't fishing for views, just sharing my story, ha ha@@deanpeter2on
What you are describing is dead in what we’ve been discussing in house - night & day . Solution is exactly what you say - independent promotion & distribution through a platform like YT or Vimeo - for now where YOU WILL BE SEEN & you can control the information that’s needed to follow through. CHANGE IS COMING 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼🎬🎬 we just need to stick together like Coppola & Lucas did in the 70’s - BE LIKE Zoetrope studios ,rebel against the institutions & BE INDEPENDENT! Nothing can stay the same forever. 🎬🎬🎥🎥💯💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼🎬🎥💯
The internet. It's going to change everything. I started releasing my online animated series yesterday and the trailers have gotten a combined 119,954 views, the show itself (One episode on Monday, another episode yesterday evening) has accrued 19,665 views in less than 48 hours. Since we started development in late 2022, the channel went from 70 subscribers to 5,152 on Feb 29th and has risen to 8,301 since then.
Not trying to be flashy with these numbers at all - but trying to showcase that, there is rock hard evidence of what your content is doing when you have full control over it. Our production had a zero dollar budget, was made by volunteers, and had nothing in the way of marketing aside from posting updates and little sneak peaks.
The "old-school conventional" way of film distribution is all but dead. Like you mentioned, it's a cycle of someone buying the last company for the bottom dollar. Nobody is ever going to care about your film like you do -- so why not have full control over it and let that create the future opportunities?
This is the end of my TedTalk.
Congrats that's an amazing story.
Contracts, Need a lawyer, Accountant.. If they breached contract you send a cease and desist.
If you copyrighted the movie and didn't transfer copyright then It is federal court.
Money is the big issue..and..the new level of aggregation that will eat your lunch...they now scheme losses in contracts which means you owe them back
Oh man! I feel your pain! I have motherfuckers distrubeters as well and it's just a SCAM. Thanks to share!
This has been ongoing for quite some time. Your best bet is distribute yourself. Sorry for your losses
You’re right 🎯
Sounds like old fashioned breeches of contract (assuming you had a contract) so you could take your rights back and have could with previous distributors too.
But who has the money to sue the distributor?
Had the same thing happen with my music. Ive made 2 dollars in 6 years.
That's $2 more than I've made!
Ya that sucks man. @@deanpeter2on
It´s so hard to understand what is the best way for indy filmmakers. For me it´s only accepting the "old fashioned" distribution way, if it´s really a big, known distributor. Eighter it´s that or I will send it straight to RUclips. I mean look at Joel Haver or the guys from "That´s a bad idea". It seems to work and no one tells them how to make their videos. So for me there are just those two options.
I think you're 100% right 🎯
Meh. Hard disagree here. If you can get distribution take it. These peoples entire jobs are working this side of the industry. There’s virtually no indie filmmakers that can navigate distribution like a professional company. Love the content though!
I'm honestly curious if you actually know the answer. It's history repeating itself with new technology. Take away the technology aspect of it and the problem is the same as it was a long long time ago. Therefore, the solution is the same. Sorry for being vague. I just want people to think it out.
I don't know the answer. Finding an audience has always been a struggle for filmmakers and there have always been bad actors willing to prey on us. I'm still trying to find the best answer.
Sorry for the 2nd post, but sadly, the only way to actually be successful in the world of feature films is to make something with full studio backing/distribution on the front end. The "indy" feature scene is dead, it's so dead it's not even funny. Sure, if you have a cult following and make cult movies like horror or sci-fi, you may be able to sell an indy film for $30k to someone who will throw it up on Tubi for you. That's really not much of a deal honestly. Without marketing, nobody will ever know it exists, so how will anyone watch it? If the idea is to go to festivals, that doesn't work either. Unless you're working in Hollywood and have excellent connections to well known actors, who are willing to set aside their fees AND you have a SAG negotiator (usually a producer) to allow you to use them, both are horribly expensive, then you're screwed anyway. Heck, even short films need to have SAG actors. The contract to get SAG actors, even for no-budget films is still $5k. You could make the best, most beautiful film imaginable, but if there is no name attached, no real distributor will even help. So it's always going to be a fail. SO what do you do with a feature film? You give it away. You spend money on advertising yourself through social media and RUclips. You try to get eyes on it and build a cult following AT YOUR EXPENSE and maybe... just maybe, you'll get some people to help fund your next project.
I coulda told ya years ago you'd be scammed. Everyone is scammed. I've worked on fully funded by distributor feature films, two of which had limited theatrical releases and ya know what? We were scammed on all of them by the distributor. One film, they sold off without us even knowing. One film they charged us $200k for marketing expenses, even though there was zero actually spent and the film basically languished for a few years before anyone actually saw it. One film the studio fired the filmmakers (us) when we delivered our first cut. They proceeded to spend over 100k hiring a new team to "fix" the film. Then they came crawling back to us at the end because they realized, the film was what it was. They re-hired us with an apology and more pay to finish where we had left off 9 months prior. I actually wound up doing the final delivery in fact, what a cluster. The last film we did with that distributor, wound up being the best. They actually gave us metrics and paid us. WOW so after 3 other films, we wound up being successful lol.
Third times the charm
People keep saying, get a entertainment lawyer
$700/hour. So you spend money you don't have, go into debt in order to get what, your asset back? It's now an old tainted asset and you just lost a bunch of money. The entire point of this video is the basic fact that he's being scammed out of money, hiring a lawyer is simply more of the same scam. You're just blowing more cash ya don't have as an indy filmmaker.
@@CinemaRepository 700/hr?!? lol nvm
@@LycanVisuals Yep! Just a consult is $500!
@@CinemaRepositoryIt really is a game as to who can afford it and who can't :/
Come on guys, let's be serious... it makes no sense to release entire films on RUclips, neither for the public nor economically. It ONLY makes sense when you have a LARGE audience or if you make feature films as a hobby and don't want to make a living from it. Maybe try not to be fooled by fraudulent distributors. There are serious independent companies that allow you to have an audience both at the cinema and in streaming like Utopia and not two thousand views on RUclips.
I don't want to sound mean, but I feel like there are a whole number of RUclipsrs trying to sell RUclips as the future of feature films and that's wrong. Everyone is free to release their own movie on youtube but if you want to do it seriously and not as a hobby it makes no sense whichever way you look at it.
Utopia releases a couple movies a year which almost always premiere at either Sundance or SXSW.
wait...you just realized that NOW????? I could have told you that 10 years ago... but..then again, you would not have listened. HAHA
Where were you 10 years ago!!
in Hollywood, getting screwed by film festivals and such. Actually I had gotten screwed back in the late 90s but at least where wan't a youtube back then. So I said fuck it. But, alas, stil working in Hwood after all these years. So, ok, I did not become the new George Lucas. but at least I m not George Contanza either@@deanpeter2on