The worst thing wwe has done on tv is: Do the entrance but have the wrestler sit in the ring for 10 minutes in the dark while commercials and video packages play before the match.
Jim Herd did a nice job of killing WCW. The major blow was when Ted Turner sold the majority of the company to a bunch of folks who nothing about wrestling and thought we were too violent.
@The Darius Truxton Show The thing is that Russo's writing brought record ratings, record money etc., but at a price. Once your top star has feuded with the promoter, there's not really anywhere else to go. Anything afterwards seems subpar by comparison.
As I get older the other problems I have with ECW is that they sometimes went way too far.. I never had a problem with the Promos especially the heel ones or some of the hardcore matches were pretty good.. but man Certain things they did were too far like doing wrestling moves from the ceiling and setting each other on fire.. That's insane as hell and I don't care to see that again cause people could of legit been killed by doing those stupid ass stunts..
Nobody drinking beer 🍺 in the ECW arena used the words promo or heel. They got drunk 🥴 and had a blast watching the show. You IWC 🤡 using insider lingo on RUclips 20 years after a few hundred people got drunk for a night out in Philadelphia is sad
@@jeffmac9642 no, but it was targeted towards the 15 to 30 years old male, mostly single. I loved ecw and deathmatches when i was a teen, then i grew up
The Monday Night War/Attitude Era may have been the peak of recent wrestling and quite enjoyable for a while… it absolutely was the death knell of the business. 30-40 years worth of high spots and angles were condensed in a 5 year “can you top this” period.
The business is down because Vince wont allow anyone to become a star. Ryback,Rusev and Braun couldve been mega stars but Vince pulled the plug on them.
I’m surprised that the Kliq wasn’t mentioned. They ruined kayfabe with the Curtain Call, buried talent, and at least one member of the Kliq (Kevin Nash) was responsible for killing one company (WCW), and ruining another (TNA).
Lol corny exaggerates the curtain call, nobody really gave a shit, people were not that stupid back then. Go and watch the Santino Boogeyman clip and see how much he exaggerated that as well. Then check the Boogeyman shoot and see how full of shit he really is. Dont get me wrong I like him and find him entertaining but you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt.
One thing I am sort of picking up in regards to Mr. Cornette: he is very consistent in terms of his tastes and discernments. And once he has found some aspect unpalatable to those tastes, nothing will change or sway that opinion.
It’s a double edged sword. It’s one thing yo have a resolve towards the determination of product, intentions and goals. It’s another to be flexible enough to retain an audience and their subscriptions in a smartphone zombie apocalypse that abhors live entertainment. I am not a young man. At this stage I find the craft fascinating, and a bit surprised that it has not been used to greater effect in a world where videos go viral based in stories told through confrontation and violence. The craft is cool. I am not discerning in anything other than the expectation of a good story as told and explained through violence, confrontation, and the successful sale which is the actual artistry itself. More alcohol 🍷 Merry Xmas
I think that the territory system if Vince didn’t destroy it was doomed anyway. Cable television was on its way in and soon national networks begin being a thing. Eventually there would’ve been wrestling from one company or another that would have been on national television for everyone in the country to see and then deck company wouldn’t begin noticing that they have dry in other markets and ended up expanding the range. Could you imagine in today’s day and age with the Internet, network television, and the vast amount of social media that wrestling in different territories of the same country would still be successful?
Who's to say the Territories wouldn't band together into one NWA promotion? Imagine a WCW run by people with decades of experience in the wrestling business
@@CraigHarrisWakka they could only come in if turner hired them, he didn't because he put too much energy into the production side rather than the wrestling side
Imo Ric flair should be on. He’s the reason I realised wrestling was fake, way before anything else! Say what you want about others “exposing the business” but flair having the same match and doing the same silly spots just show how fake it is. And for some reason people never call him out on it 🤷🏻♂️
I agree with your point but I think the reason Flair is considered the best is because of the draw he had. He was the greatest heel, no doubt. Couldn’t wait for someone to come along and kick his arse. But that’s what drew people in to watching him. The bad part is that Charlotte is on track to doing the same. She’s great, yes. Dependable, without a doubt. But she’s been shoved down our throats and I do think she’s helped hold back other women who should have been more exposed.
@@jasonkraatz9574 hbk is a better inring performer then ric, as a matter of fact almost every legend in the biz except maybe Bret Hart says that HBK is the greatest overall and inring performer.
@@jasonkraatz9574 i agree with everything you said but flair wasnt a big time draw , only in the south and midwest he had the same matches over and over nothing new
Upon some further reflection, I can't blame Paul E. for the garbage deathmatch wrestling. It was already big in Japan, and Heyman just copied what was already popular amongst the smark crowd. As "big" as ECW was, it was still a niche product. Vince, Bischoff and Shitstain are the ones who brought the hardcore matches into WWF and WCW, making it mainstream.
Despite the garbage wrestling, ECW highlighted a huge amount of top talent in good matches in the early days. They gave smaller guys and Lucha guys exposure in the mainstream that they had never gotten before. That stuff wasn't in the main event, but it was on the cards. And quite frankly the good serious undercard wrestling on early ECW cards was a whole lot better than ANYTHING on Jim Cornette's Smokey Mudshow Wrestling cards at about the same time. Alot of really good guys went from the early ECW into the mainstream. And what happened wasn't all Heyman's fault. After the success of the early ECW, WCW and WWE talent raids took all the best people out and left ECW with no real choice other than to feature garbage wrestlers who the WWE/WCW didn't want at the time.
Obviously laws are mostly state to state, but here in NJ they never expire, or at least until the complaining party goes and visits the county whatever and has it dropped.
I'd put Dave Meltzer and his "star system" over Vince McMahon. He's the person who encouraged 55 floppy flips and dives per match, even thought they don't make sense in an actual fight. The territory system would have ended regardless, because cable and the Internet made local events world-wide events, so somebody clearly would have filled that void, the same way local radio stations and local news disappeared. Plus, you could easily argue that by Vince being the person to eliminate the territories, the entire profession benefitted, because his high tide raised all the remaining boats. Those who lost jobs were the lesser skilled, older, and less athletic or dynamic performers, and they were still able to find a carnival or a flea market in the backwoods that would pay them thew $30.00 that their skills were worth, while the talented wrestlers became millionaires. Vince McMahon didn't kill kayfabe, America smartened up.
@@ravanpee1325 Current is just today, and it can change from week to week. If you say Vince, for today's TV, that means you include the Roman Reigns story, and the Mysterios' story and Charlotte/Becky along with the crap stories that are required to fill a three-hour block. It also implies that the other promotions are providing UFC-meets Shakespeare, which they are not.
@@ravanpee1325 All wrestling has been shit for years. Every two hour show is 20 minutes of wheat, and 100 minutes of chaif. Have you ever tried watching IMPACT? That is dog crap so awful that obese dogs won't eat it. AEW is like watching little kids play-fight before recreational basketball. Is there anything worse than seeing a guy take four super kicks to the head at the same time, and then be able to perform 17 finishing maneuvers in the following 14 minutes?
i would have left heyman off of there and put kevin dunn in all his bucktoothed glory up on mount rushmore for all the world to laugh at till the end of time
The Kliq should be on there. If they had there way, the Rock would of be run out of the WWF/WWE long before he became a huge star. Along with other wrestlers they didn’t like.
Cornette has even said that despite the fact that he doesn't like Shawn Michaels, he was still a great worker. He said he will always have that over the Vince Russo's of the world.
@@constablekennedy7705 yeah, because everyone thought it was real before those events... Vince admitted it was staged when trying to avoid legal action. Dusty had people dress up as wizards on the way to the ring. The Undertaker had supernatural powers and rose from the dead on the Titantron. When matches went badly, workers had to go back out and re-do the same match the live audience had just seen. But yeah, CC and MS exposed the business...
I think Mr. Cornette underestimates the reach of Ian Rotten's tendrils outside of his seemingly small domain. After all, Seth Rollins (a.k.a. Tyler Black) and his former tag team partner, Marek Brave, were frequent participants in IWA Mid-South shows. Both of them are from Iowa. Eddie Kingston's from New York, trained with Chikara in Allentown, PA; and he and Blackjack Marciano wound up working at IWA Mid-South on a regular basis. Wrestlers out of the Minneapolis/St. Paul area such as Ken Anderson and Shawn Daivari (among many others) worked for IWA Mid-South frequently. The all-women's promotion, Shimmer, was essentially birthed out of the IWA Mid-South Women's Division, as that is where Dave Prazak(co-owner/booker/promoter of Shimmer) worked most frequently prior to his becoming a part of ROH. Even Punk, Danielson, Hero and Claudio were mainstays of IWA Mid-South. Now, while all those that I've mentioned aren't blights on the business (depending on one's point of view, of course), all of them were working for Ian Rotten for a significant chunk of time, and all of them come from far beyond the Indiana/Illinois/Kentucky tri-state area. Therefore, the idea that Ian Rotten's possible influence on the business would be fully contained within that sphere, is somewhat errant thinking. That being said, there likely would be no Ian Rotten had it not been for Paul Heyman since The Bad Breed/The Rotten Brothers came to "prominence" as a result of their time in ECW. Therefore, Jim's Mount Rushmore of the most harmful contributors to the sport we love is pretty spot on as it is.
Vince got wrestling to a high point for a few years and now it can't even beat real housewives reality TV shows in the ratings...if you have 5-7 years of a hot streak followed by25 years of decline what did you really do? And you trying to credit bischoff with anything is laughable
I would say Kevin Dunn should be on this list over Heyman. Yeah Paul brought garbage wrestling to the mainstream, but he's a wrestling savant. A writing genius. I tried to watch 5 minutes of Raw the other night and almost had a stroke because of all the Kevin Dunn camera cuts. I also love how Jim just can't accept that it's not 1986 anymore. It's hilarious.
Sure, it's all Paul Heyman's fault. The Tupelo Concession stand brawl in Cornette's beloved Memphis had nothing to do with it. No one else did Barbedwire matches in the US before ECW, the ones with Dusty Rhodes and Terry Funk I've seen are a figment of my imagination. FMW wasn't a thing that influenced people. There wasn't a Brass Knuckles Championship that was dedicated to hardcore wrestling. None of the territories had an SOP that the wrestlers ended up bruised and bloody every match. Abdullah the Butcher, Iron Sheik, Bruiser Brody, Terry Funk, Mick Foley and other hardcore style wrestlers didn't exist. I'm not saying that ECW didn't have an impact, but to blame it all on them is one of those areas where Cornette has his blinders on. The other three all had specific, direct impact. Heyman and ECW were not doing anything others hadn't already done, they just made it a bigger part of the companies style and image. Which fit the times, and lead to a lot of the changes that became The Attitude era in WWF(E).
this reminds me of ole anderson telling a story about negotiating johnny b badd's contract and he got johnny to agree to 160 grand a year and shortly after they agreed on the money jim herd swooped in at the last second and offered johnny double the money, johnny b bad gave ole anderson a dirty look after herd's offer and then herd said to ole "that's how you negotiate kid!" i would really like to know the exact number of how much money herd lost wcw
Can't really argue against any of these \ If you wanna say (insert name(s)) played a role in WCW going under then go ahead but Jim is going by people who had actual power on a company wide level that could influence the entire industry and his picks did that Vince killed the territory system in his effort to be "sports entertainment" in a wrestling world so while he can get props for taking wrestling nationwide, he pretty much is responsible for the state of wrestling today buying out two of his competitors and making wrestling stale for over 15 years
Controversial take I know, but Ric Flair. Working the same match every night was fine when he was a touring NWA Champion and there was no national television wrestling. Once Crockett got the cable spot, there were ppvs and Clashes, and Flair STILL worked the same match every night...
He didn't though. Watch his technical matches with Steamboat, watch his brawl with Terry Funk, watch his Royal Rumble win, watch his 'strong style' match with Vader, watch his 'World of Sport style series (Marquis of Queensbury) with Steve/William Regal, watch his hard hitting cage match with Ronnie Garvin, hell you could even watch him as the Black Scorpion where he doesn't do a single Flair spot. Sure he wrestled the same match against Lex Luger, but you trying wrestling 100 different matches against a guy that can do a clothesline and a press slam
Jim doesn’t even name russo. Just calls him shit stain. Damn lol. I mean Jim did say that he would piss on Russos grave. That’s a lot of hatred. I think we have a better chance of seeing Bret hart make peace with hulk hogan before we see Jim make peace with Russo 😂.
ECW was what made wrestling amazing for ten years: 1997-2007. Vinny stole ideas from ECW then pulled the plug when there was no immediate competition though. Since then we’ve been in a wrestling recession for almost 15 years until recently.
Yeah, making wrestling a nation wide phenomenon and making being like the Undertaker who will live on with a legacy far after he, you and I are long gone. Hate on Vince all you want and yes, he killed the circus wrestling, but he did take it farther than it ever would've without him.
@@ThePunk01 Pro wrestling has lost 4/5ths of its former audience under Vince as the "God Emperor". The entire American wrestling business is the size of one or two of the bigger former territories now. THAT'S how "farther" Vince has taken the business. From something that a huge percentage of the population was interested in, to niche entertainment for nerds. WWE still books 10k seats arenas for their TV tapings and draws 2k or 3k audience members. I don't care how much money he scammed in the stock market or how many millions dying TV networks that are desperate for any kind of "content" stuff up his ass for his garbage product.
Eric Bischoff with his bad booking and misuse of Turner's money. Kilque as a whole was toxic and the amount of burials both HBK and HHH had committed musn't be forgotten. Lastly, Vince Mcamhon for deforming the product.
The “Kliq" is what slowly opened McMahon's eye's that there was more to do with pro wrestling than what was being done in the late 80's and early 90's. I'm not trashing those years, but it was time for some fresh idea's and those guys had the gonads to say what others were probably thinking, but afraid to say. What else was creative supposed to do from 93-96, make sure and give Doink a couple world title runs?... Maybe Duke "The Dumpster" as well?
I absolutely love the artwork for this video. I saw it coming up next when I was watching the video/listening to the clip about FTR/Briscoes NME. The lipstick Vince kills me every time. Jericho is like a cartoon of himself. The only thing Russo did I liked was the show where he made fun of the marks. Sadly I have to agree on Heyman. When I first got WWE Network. I watched every single Royal Rumble because that is my favorite show so I wanted to see all them of again. Then I watched ECW. And ECW without a doubt is the hellspawn of modern wrestling.
A lot of people say this but they wouldn’t dare watch any rando 80s show that doesn’t have a famous match on it. People would die watching PS Hayes have a 20 minute match where he runs pretty much the entire time. There’s ups and downs for sure. Stuff that isn’t as good as it could/should be now? Okay, fine. But worst ever? New Generation WWF would love to chat.
‘Look at the numbers’ doesn’t always work across eras. There’s a ridiculous number of ways to see wrestling now. And sadly, there’s some great wrestling over the last 50 years that didn’t do great biz so there’s that too. Flair/Steamboat 89 for instance. Now? A slew of people are watching/enjoying different things (so ‘the numbers’ aren’t as easily consolidated) while others are falling out of trees to make sure people know everything they don’t enjoy. In the 80s, it was just ‘watch what was on if you could find it, enjoy it or don’t, go about your day’. Now? There’s a whole crew of people who have a lust for not liking things online. It’s a whole business, isn’t it!? I don’t get it but whatever THAT is it doesn’t help. Also, in a funny way, a whole subgenre for hate watching shows suggests that maybe wrestling isn’t 100% doomed, doesn’t it?
Kevin Nash called Pro Wrestling fake.. Hulk Hogan called it fake at some point.. CM Punk Called it fake.. These are all guys who have been in the business for over 20, 30, 40 years..
I have to agree with Jim about something that it wouldn't just be a Mount Rushmore, but a Stg. Peppers album cover. But for the question to be answered, and a bit of simplification, I think the four he picked are a good answer.
Shawn Michaels is patient 0 for all the Get My Shit In, 4,500 flips and superkicks per match, mudshow goofs. They mimic him without realizing the psychology behind why he did what he did. He's the influence to the Young Bucks and all of their grade school nonsense.
Never thought I would stick up for Jim Herd but to be fair to that idiot he was never influential, I don't think anyone has ever tried to book like him. I'd sawp him out for Bischoff because though Bischoff wasn't that bad he did start the trend of building the show around stables and over filling stables, booking multiple stablescetc that we saw in TNA and now AEW which has maybe ten stabkes at once and sometimes stables within stables.
You could probably argue for Eric Bischoff if you blame him for WCW's ridiculous contracts. Signing Hogan was kind of a faustian bargain because while he attracted a lot of attention to WCW, he was always going to use his creative control to put himself on top. As a face he dominated to a ridiculous extent and the nWo basically saved things by having Hogan become the top heel. But once it become time for the faces to win, he wouldn't let it happen and you get nonsense like the finger poke of doom to keep the nWo going and the ratings dropped. Does WCW TV get cancelled if it was still doing the ratings it was getting in the 96-98 time frame? Triple H could be included since him getting the push from hell in 2002-03 cratered the WWE's viewership numbers and if he wasn't the son-in-law he would never have been able to do that. With the WWE being the only company with national TV at the time that had a huge effect on the diminished audience size we see today. But Russo is the ultimate choice. So much nonsensical wrestling "tropes" these days where no one seems to know why they're doing it that way comes from Russo. Russo had no subtlety and no patience so what should be exceptional once-in-a-while concepts get overused, often in the same show. So when you watch AEW and see that every interview segment gets interrupted and every match has some post-match beatdown and every "feud" jumps immediately to gimmick matches - that's Russo's influence. "Normal" matches and interviews and segments ironically became rare because that idiot had no attention span.
Post match and pre match beat downs were a thing even in the 80s. Russo didn't do it any more aggressively than it was done during the territories. It's how you get heat and build feuds. Every feud can't be centered about guy being mad during a best of 7 series.
Six Faces.. Edge, Christian, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, D-Von Dudley, Bubba Ray Dudley And carve the faces in front of ladders, with chairs and tables next to them.
Vince did not kill the territories, the owners of those territories killed their own product. some of which were in business a lot longer then Vince and should have been able to out smart him but got to complacent. I love Jim but if he is adding Heyman then he should also add himself as he is the one who brought New Jack in who was nothing more then a bully. i agree with Herd and Russo but Vince and Paul added more positive then negative in my opinion
Something about the way Jim says “shit stain” always gives me a chuckle
It's funny how he never says shit stain's real name and we all know who he is talking about.
@@mblair5327 Vince Russo?
It's the authenticity.
It's gross honestly
@@alkiline9199 Russo burner account spotted
This whole segment I was screaming Kevin Dunn
*smacksmacksmacksmack* "You know Jim..." *smacksmack* "I find you tiresome"
The worst thing wwe has done on tv is:
Do the entrance but have the wrestler sit in the ring for 10 minutes in the dark while commercials and video packages play before the match.
You were not the only one!
Kevin Dunn is symptomatic of Vince though. He only has as much influence as he has because of Vince. Without Vince he'd just be the TV producer
Dunn hasn't really done anything to alter the course of wrestling history he is just an obnoxious ass kisser but not on par with the people jim named
The Turner executives who never wanted WCW in the first place and did their best to sabotage it at every opportunity should be on that list.
Eric Bitchoff killed WCW dork
Jim Herd did a nice job of killing WCW. The major blow was when Ted Turner sold the majority of the company to a bunch of folks who nothing about wrestling and thought we were too violent.
@@yoholmes273 Reread my comment. I don’t think “Turner executives killed WCW” was written.
@@ThatDoesntWorkForMeBrother Eric Bischoff did. Get it yet?
@@yoholmes273 I’m talking about his superiors, not him.
I fully expected Russo to be here and I wasn't disappointed.
Too bad his stuff wasn't filtered, huh?
Shit-stain was going to be the easy choice for #1 here! no surprises..
@@markdouglas9182 Which contradicts the bs revisionism that
a) He stole from ECW
b) Vince McMahon was filtering his stuff
@The Darius Truxton Show The thing is that Russo's writing brought record ratings, record money etc., but at a price.
Once your top star has feuded with the promoter, there's not really anywhere else to go. Anything afterwards seems subpar by comparison.
I suppose his picture being in the thumbnail helped........
Jim's rant's on 89 90 wcw are gold
Where's it at? Title of it?
I laughed each and every time.. He despise Jim Herd.. 😂😂😂😂😂
@@kenrickkahn dude u gonna fkn share the info or NOT!? What's the dam title!?
@@nathantturnert1631 ruclips.net/video/63VeLDtSaEU/видео.html it took me 2 seconds to find jeez
@@paranoidandroid9979 Thank you but also why you being a lil prik too? JUST HELP PEOPLE ONCE IN A WHILE without your smart remarks. Thanks again!
As I get older the other problems I have with ECW is that they sometimes went way too far.. I never had a problem with the Promos especially the heel ones or some of the hardcore matches were pretty good.. but man Certain things they did were too far like doing wrestling moves from the ceiling and setting each other on fire.. That's insane as hell and I don't care to see that again cause people could of legit been killed by doing those stupid ass stunts..
Yeah but it was awesome! lol
Nobody drinking beer 🍺 in the ECW arena used the words promo or heel. They got drunk 🥴 and had a blast watching the show. You IWC 🤡 using insider lingo on RUclips 20 years after a few hundred people got drunk for a night out in Philadelphia is sad
@@tylermcnally8232 So you know first hand that the ECW audience in Philadelphia in 1997 were all stupid?
@@jeffmac9642 no, but it was targeted towards the 15 to 30 years old male, mostly single. I loved ecw and deathmatches when i was a teen, then i grew up
@@arthurdaffos1490 You act like you did something wrong and shameful. Thats a bit awkward
The Monday Night War/Attitude Era may have been the peak of recent wrestling and quite enjoyable for a while… it absolutely was the death knell of the business.
30-40 years worth of high spots and angles were condensed in a 5 year “can you top this” period.
Imagine actually having that braindead opinion lmao
The business is down because Vince wont allow anyone to become a star. Ryback,Rusev and Braun couldve been mega stars but Vince pulled the plug on them.
@@piccolo5346 one of the reasons yes but not the only one
I thought Bucky Beaver would have gotten his teeth stuck on this somewhere.
I haven´t started listening but something tells me the term "shitstain" is gonna pop up once or maybe twice
Who is?
@@SirHubbo92 Vince Russo
I’m surprised that the Kliq wasn’t mentioned. They ruined kayfabe with the Curtain Call, buried talent, and at least one member of the Kliq (Kevin Nash) was responsible for killing one company (WCW), and ruining another (TNA).
You can't blame Nash for TNA when Dixie Carter steered the ship
Did nash ruin tna? I think that's far too harsh
@The Connected Dixie steered the ship, but Nash was right behind her. Literally and figuratively.
@TheJoeGreene This. 1934, Jack Pfefer took care of kayfabe. Vince just raped a dead corpse.
Lol corny exaggerates the curtain call, nobody really gave a shit, people were not that stupid back then. Go and watch the Santino Boogeyman clip and see how much he exaggerated that as well. Then check the Boogeyman shoot and see how full of shit he really is. Dont get me wrong I like him and find him entertaining but you have to take everything he says with a grain of salt.
Alternative Mount Rushmore of Bad Wrestling: Dixie Carter, Eric Bischoff, Dave Meltzer and Kevin Dunn
Take Eric Bischoff off here.. He was alright but I agree with the rest..
@@kenrickkahn Bischoff was a starfucker. That was his downfall.
@@kenrickkahn agreed.
One thing I am sort of picking up in regards to Mr. Cornette: he is very consistent in terms of his tastes and discernments. And once he has found some aspect unpalatable to those tastes, nothing will change or sway that opinion.
Well thanks for finally joining us 😂
It’s a double edged sword. It’s one thing yo have a resolve towards the determination of product, intentions and goals. It’s another to be flexible enough to retain an audience and their subscriptions in a smartphone zombie apocalypse that abhors live entertainment. I am not a young man. At this stage I find the craft fascinating, and a bit surprised that it has not been used to greater effect in a world where videos go viral based in stories told through confrontation and violence. The craft is cool. I am not discerning in anything other than the expectation of a good story as told and explained through violence, confrontation, and the successful sale which is the actual artistry itself. More alcohol 🍷 Merry Xmas
He can change it, just depends how utterly stupid and embarrassing the original offence was.
I think that the territory system if Vince didn’t destroy it was doomed anyway. Cable television was on its way in and soon national networks begin being a thing. Eventually there would’ve been wrestling from one company or another that would have been on national television for everyone in the country to see and then deck company wouldn’t begin noticing that they have dry in other markets and ended up expanding the range. Could you imagine in today’s day and age with the Internet, network television, and the vast amount of social media that wrestling in different territories of the same country would still be successful?
Georgia Championship Wrestling was being broadcast weekly on national cable (TBS) starting in the seventies.
Yes. It could be very successful. Why not ?
Who's to say the Territories wouldn't band together into one NWA promotion? Imagine a WCW run by people with decades of experience in the wrestling business
@@denisashby5589 surprised people from different promotions didn't come together in WCW to battle WWF since WrestleMania was massive.
@@CraigHarrisWakka they could only come in if turner hired them, he didn't because he put too much energy into the production side rather than the wrestling side
Holy hell that was my question!
Imo Ric flair should be on. He’s the reason I realised wrestling was fake, way before anything else! Say what you want about others “exposing the business” but flair having the same match and doing the same silly spots just show how fake it is. And for some reason people never call him out on it 🤷🏻♂️
I agree with your point but I think the reason Flair is considered the best is because of the draw he had. He was the greatest heel, no doubt. Couldn’t wait for someone to come along and kick his arse. But that’s what drew people in to watching him.
The bad part is that Charlotte is on track to doing the same. She’s great, yes. Dependable, without a doubt. But she’s been shoved down our throats and I do think she’s helped hold back other women who should have been more exposed.
@@jasonkraatz9574 hbk is a better inring performer then ric, as a matter of fact almost every legend in the biz except maybe Bret Hart says that HBK is the greatest overall and inring performer.
@@jasonkraatz9574 i agree with everything you said but flair wasnt a big time draw , only in the south and midwest he had the same matches over and over nothing new
To quote Good Ol’ JR,
“Flair’s a made man in the world of professional wrestling.”
Honorable mention to Nash, Hall and Hogan
You could also make a case for John Laurinaitis to be up there too
Hogan needs to be on the list, His ego and selfishness was instrumental in destroying WCW and TNA
WCW destroyed WCW
In regards to TNA it should be Dixie Carter not Hogan
@@dmalak4509 she sucked too
And for giving bubba the love sponges wife a pounding
Upon some further reflection, I can't blame Paul E. for the garbage deathmatch wrestling. It was already big in Japan, and Heyman just copied what was already popular amongst the smark crowd. As "big" as ECW was, it was still a niche product. Vince, Bischoff and Shitstain are the ones who brought the hardcore matches into WWF and WCW, making it mainstream.
ECW was on the verge of breaking out onto mainstream around 2000, but they lost their TV deal and went under
Despite the garbage wrestling, ECW highlighted a huge amount of top talent in good matches in the early days. They gave smaller guys and Lucha guys exposure in the mainstream that they had never gotten before. That stuff wasn't in the main event, but it was on the cards.
And quite frankly the good serious undercard wrestling on early ECW cards was a whole lot better than ANYTHING on Jim Cornette's Smokey Mudshow Wrestling cards at about the same time.
Alot of really good guys went from the early ECW into the mainstream. And what happened wasn't all Heyman's fault. After the success of the early ECW, WCW and WWE talent raids took all the best people out and left ECW with no real choice other than to feature garbage wrestlers who the WWE/WCW didn't want at the time.
Has Russo’s restraining order expired yet
Probably.
Obviously laws are mostly state to state, but here in NJ they never expire, or at least until the complaining party goes and visits the county whatever and has it dropped.
Bingo! Honorable mentions Eric Bischoff, Dixie Carter, Nick Gage, John Laurinaitis. In 5 years Pockets, Tony Khan.
I'd put Dave Meltzer and his "star system" over Vince McMahon. He's the person who encouraged 55 floppy flips and dives per match, even thought they don't make sense in an actual fight. The territory system would have ended regardless, because cable and the Internet made local events world-wide events, so somebody clearly would have filled that void, the same way local radio stations and local news disappeared. Plus, you could easily argue that by Vince being the person to eliminate the territories, the entire profession benefitted, because his high tide raised all the remaining boats. Those who lost jobs were the lesser skilled, older, and less athletic or dynamic performers, and they were still able to find a carnival or a flea market in the backwoods that would pay them thew $30.00 that their skills were worth, while the talented wrestlers became millionaires. Vince McMahon didn't kill kayfabe, America smartened up.
Also Vince because of the current shit on RAW and Smackdown
@@ravanpee1325 Current is just today, and it can change from week to week. If you say Vince, for today's TV, that means you include the Roman Reigns story, and the Mysterios' story and Charlotte/Becky along with the crap stories that are required to fill a three-hour block. It also implies that the other promotions are providing UFC-meets Shakespeare, which they are not.
@@BUStedLosAngeles It's shit for years dude
@@ravanpee1325 All wrestling has been shit for years. Every two hour show is 20 minutes of wheat, and 100 minutes of chaif. Have you ever tried watching IMPACT? That is dog crap so awful that obese dogs won't eat it. AEW is like watching little kids play-fight before recreational basketball. Is there anything worse than seeing a guy take four super kicks to the head at the same time, and then be able to perform 17 finishing maneuvers in the following 14 minutes?
@@BUStedLosAngeles Vince lost it after the Cena departure.
i would have left heyman off of there and put kevin dunn in all his bucktoothed glory up on mount rushmore for all the world to laugh at till the end of time
The Kliq should be on there. If they had there way, the Rock would of be run out of the WWF/WWE long before he became a huge star. Along with other wrestlers they didn’t like.
The kliq brought in the attitude era, there would have been no rock without the kliq.
Plus they were involved in both the ‘Curtain Call’ and the ‘Montreal ScrewJob’ which exposed the Wrestling Business to No End …… 🤷🏿♂️
Cornette has even said that despite the fact that he doesn't like Shawn Michaels, he was still a great worker. He said he will always have that over the Vince Russo's of the world.
@@constablekennedy7705 yeah, because everyone thought it was real before those events... Vince admitted it was staged when trying to avoid legal action. Dusty had people dress up as wizards on the way to the ring. The Undertaker had supernatural powers and rose from the dead on the Titantron. When matches went badly, workers had to go back out and re-do the same match the live audience had just seen. But yeah, CC and MS exposed the business...
@@constablekennedy7705 The business was already exposed. Thanks for showing your incompetence.
The fact the word “Russo” might never come out of Jim’s mouth ever again
Russo with the Hollywood Hogan beard 😂
If there was another candidate it would be Dave meltzer
No Eddie Mansfield?
I think Mr. Cornette underestimates the reach of Ian Rotten's tendrils outside of his seemingly small domain. After all, Seth Rollins (a.k.a. Tyler Black) and his former tag team partner, Marek Brave, were frequent participants in IWA Mid-South shows. Both of them are from Iowa. Eddie Kingston's from New York, trained with Chikara in Allentown, PA; and he and Blackjack Marciano wound up working at IWA Mid-South on a regular basis. Wrestlers out of the Minneapolis/St. Paul area such as Ken Anderson and Shawn Daivari (among many others) worked for IWA Mid-South frequently. The all-women's promotion, Shimmer, was essentially birthed out of the IWA Mid-South Women's Division, as that is where Dave Prazak(co-owner/booker/promoter of Shimmer) worked most frequently prior to his becoming a part of ROH. Even Punk, Danielson, Hero and Claudio were mainstays of IWA Mid-South.
Now, while all those that I've mentioned aren't blights on the business (depending on one's point of view, of course), all of them were working for Ian Rotten for a significant chunk of time, and all of them come from far beyond the Indiana/Illinois/Kentucky tri-state area. Therefore, the idea that Ian Rotten's possible influence on the business would be fully contained within that sphere, is somewhat errant thinking.
That being said, there likely would be no Ian Rotten had it not been for Paul Heyman since The Bad Breed/The Rotten Brothers came to "prominence" as a result of their time in ECW. Therefore, Jim's Mount Rushmore of the most harmful contributors to the sport we love is pretty spot on as it is.
Very accurate options of Bad influences in the wrestling business
Does anyone honestly believe wrestling would have been significant in the 90s and after without Vince McMahon and Eric Bischoff?
Eric Bichoff had no clue what he was doing
Vince got wrestling to a high point for a few years and now it can't even beat real housewives reality TV shows in the ratings...if you have 5-7 years of a hot streak followed by25 years of decline what did you really do? And you trying to credit bischoff with anything is laughable
People just like to be contrarian. Both guys brought wrestling to bigger heights than anybody could have ever imagined at the time.
@@trahapace150 yeah basically. It was at a slow incline, spiked for a few years, then dropped drastically and hovers low
@@fartsound74 you mean the talent on the roster did
I would say Kevin Dunn should be on this list over Heyman. Yeah Paul brought garbage wrestling to the mainstream, but he's a wrestling savant. A writing genius. I tried to watch 5 minutes of Raw the other night and almost had a stroke because of all the Kevin Dunn camera cuts.
I also love how Jim just can't accept that it's not 1986 anymore. It's hilarious.
Dunn has now spent decades trying to make pro wrestling things that it is not.
Sure, it's all Paul Heyman's fault.
The Tupelo Concession stand brawl in Cornette's beloved Memphis had nothing to do with it.
No one else did Barbedwire matches in the US before ECW, the ones with Dusty Rhodes and Terry Funk I've seen are a figment of my imagination.
FMW wasn't a thing that influenced people.
There wasn't a Brass Knuckles Championship that was dedicated to hardcore wrestling.
None of the territories had an SOP that the wrestlers ended up bruised and bloody every match.
Abdullah the Butcher, Iron Sheik, Bruiser Brody, Terry Funk, Mick Foley and other hardcore style wrestlers didn't exist.
I'm not saying that ECW didn't have an impact, but to blame it all on them is one of those areas where Cornette has his blinders on. The other three all had specific, direct impact. Heyman and ECW were not doing anything others hadn't already done, they just made it a bigger part of the companies style and image. Which fit the times, and lead to a lot of the changes that became The Attitude era in WWF(E).
Table crashing barbed wire wrapping
I want to hear more about the guy in front of the barn
Mount Rushmore of announcers
Jim Ross
Gordon Solie
Lance Russell
Bill Mercer
What about Eddy Mansfield???
I think cable ruined the territories. McMahon was just smart enough to see what was coming
I swear, I thought Russo was Enzo. Ha.
*bro. Ha.
this reminds me of ole anderson telling a story about negotiating johnny b badd's contract and he got johnny to agree to 160 grand a year and shortly after they agreed on the money jim herd swooped in at the last second and offered johnny double the money, johnny b bad gave ole anderson a dirty look after herd's offer and then herd said to ole "that's how you negotiate kid!" i would really like to know the exact number of how much money herd lost wcw
Not as much as at the end
Can't really argue against any of these \
If you wanna say (insert name(s)) played a role in WCW going under then go ahead but Jim is going by people who had actual power on a company wide level that could influence the entire industry and his picks did that
Vince killed the territory system in his effort to be "sports entertainment" in a wrestling world so while he can get props for taking wrestling nationwide, he pretty much is responsible for the state of wrestling today buying out two of his competitors and making wrestling stale for over 15 years
Five biggest cancers of wrestling in no order: Jim Herd, Vince Russo, Dixie Carter, Jean Paul Levesque aka HHH, Crock Lesnar.
No hardcore ecw fans cite malenko or Guerrero because they were there for the length of a Chipotle fart.
Tully Blanchard screwed himself. No one told him to do coke after giving your notice.
Yep.
Is that Aaron Rogers on the right?
I think of Jim Herd, Russo, Kevin beaver teeth Dunn and Ed Ferrera
You forgot Dixie Carter 😂
they were just Mc Mahons henchmen (Russo, Kevin beaver teeth Dunn and Ed Ferrera)
@@theconnected7234 and mark madden
Controversial take I know, but Ric Flair.
Working the same match every night was fine when he was a touring NWA Champion and there was no national television wrestling.
Once Crockett got the cable spot, there were ppvs and Clashes, and Flair STILL worked the same match every night...
He didn't though. Watch his technical matches with Steamboat, watch his brawl with Terry Funk, watch his Royal Rumble win, watch his 'strong style' match with Vader, watch his 'World of Sport style series (Marquis of Queensbury) with Steve/William Regal, watch his hard hitting cage match with Ronnie Garvin, hell you could even watch him as the Black Scorpion where he doesn't do a single Flair spot. Sure he wrestled the same match against Lex Luger, but you trying wrestling 100 different matches against a guy that can do a clothesline and a press slam
And he still drew. You could claim the same thing about Hogan. Good wrestling is more than just matches.
@@natebaxter9551 Exactly
@@natebaxter9551 wrestling is more than just matches but without matches, there's no wrestling.
Working the same match isn't necessarily bad, but when you're 62 and wrestling that match, you're fucking up the business.
Jim doesn’t even name russo. Just calls him shit stain. Damn lol. I mean Jim did say that he would piss on Russos grave. That’s a lot of hatred. I think we have a better chance of seeing Bret hart make peace with hulk hogan before we see Jim make peace with Russo 😂.
I love how he calls Excalibur Excrement 🤣😂🤣
Laurenitis and Pritchard share blame with Vince for being milksop yes men that couldn't tell a wrestling match from a bodybuilding competition
The territories would have been gone eventually whether Vince existed or not.
ECW was what made wrestling amazing for ten years: 1997-2007. Vinny stole ideas from ECW then pulled the plug when there was no immediate competition though. Since then we’ve been in a wrestling recession for almost 15 years until recently.
10 years? It closed in 2001.
@@blesner Hence the stolen ideas
Can't tell if Paul Heyman or Humpty Dumpty.
Paul Heyman kinda looks like a heavier Don Knotts.
Vince McMahon did more harm to the business than good. But these young fans will never know.
Yeah, making wrestling a nation wide phenomenon and making being like the Undertaker who will live on with a legacy far after he, you and I are long gone. Hate on Vince all you want and yes, he killed the circus wrestling, but he did take it farther than it ever would've without him.
@@ThePunk01 Pro wrestling has lost 4/5ths of its former audience under Vince as the "God Emperor". The entire American wrestling business is the size of one or two of the bigger former territories now.
THAT'S how "farther" Vince has taken the business. From something that a huge percentage of the population was interested in, to niche entertainment for nerds. WWE still books 10k seats arenas for their TV tapings and draws 2k or 3k audience members.
I don't care how much money he scammed in the stock market or how many millions dying TV networks that are desperate for any kind of "content" stuff up his ass for his garbage product.
Eric Bischoff with his bad booking and misuse of Turner's money. Kilque as a whole was toxic and the amount of burials both HBK and HHH had committed musn't be forgotten. Lastly, Vince Mcamhon for deforming the product.
HBK destroying Vader's Push was just plan evil.. Shawn wrestling Hogan was Shawn's karma..
Amount of “burials” spoken like a true smark with a warped internet mentality
The “Kliq" is what slowly opened McMahon's eye's that there was more to do with pro wrestling than what was being done in the late 80's and early 90's. I'm not trashing those years, but it was time for some fresh idea's and those guys had the gonads to say what others were probably thinking, but afraid to say.
What else was creative supposed to do from 93-96, make sure and give Doink a couple world title runs?... Maybe Duke "The Dumpster" as well?
Not sure how Jeff Jarrett didn’t end up here for TNA way over Paul E for ECW. And Jim has booked some bullshit in his day
Def a sgt pepper album cover…
I absolutely love the artwork for this video. I saw it coming up next when I was watching the video/listening to the clip about FTR/Briscoes NME. The lipstick Vince kills me every time. Jericho is like a cartoon of himself. The only thing Russo did I liked was the show where he made fun of the marks. Sadly I have to agree on Heyman. When I first got WWE Network. I watched every single Royal Rumble because that is my favorite show so I wanted to see all them of again. Then I watched ECW. And ECW without a doubt is the hellspawn of modern wrestling.
Garbage wrestling probably still would of happened without Paul. Because it was already popular in Japan long before Heyman.
that's why I was thinking Onita should have been the guy.
I thought that pic of Heard was Meltzer
vince has ruined the business look at the state it's in today .. it's never ever ever been this bad ..ever
A lot of people say this but they wouldn’t dare watch any rando 80s show that doesn’t have a famous match on it. People would die watching PS Hayes have a 20 minute match where he runs pretty much the entire time.
There’s ups and downs for sure. Stuff that isn’t as good as it could/should be now? Okay, fine. But worst ever? New Generation WWF would love to chat.
@@jimaveli pull up the rateings so we can compare
‘Look at the numbers’ doesn’t always work across eras. There’s a ridiculous number of ways to see wrestling now. And sadly, there’s some great wrestling over the last 50 years that didn’t do great biz so there’s that too. Flair/Steamboat 89 for instance.
Now? A slew of people are watching/enjoying different things (so ‘the numbers’ aren’t as easily consolidated) while others are falling out of trees to make sure people know everything they don’t enjoy.
In the 80s, it was just ‘watch what was on if you could find it, enjoy it or don’t, go about your day’. Now? There’s a whole crew of people who have a lust for not liking things online. It’s a whole business, isn’t it!? I don’t get it but whatever THAT is it doesn’t help. Also, in a funny way, a whole subgenre for hate watching shows suggests that maybe wrestling isn’t 100% doomed, doesn’t it?
Anybody who has used the term “fake” with wrestling needs to be excommunicated from the industry
Matt Bourne is that you back from the dead ?
It’s still real to me
“Wrestling is fake and most of the time it doesn’t matter who wins and who fucking loses”
- CM Punk.
Kevin Nash called Pro Wrestling fake.. Hulk Hogan called it fake at some point.. CM Punk Called it fake.. These are all guys who have been in the business for over 20, 30, 40 years..
@@kenrickkahn all of them are whiney jabronies.
add Herb Abrams and Dave Meltzer
No offense to them but Mick Foley and Hardy Boys should be a dishonorable mention.
I have to agree with Jim about something that it wouldn't just be a Mount Rushmore, but a Stg. Peppers album cover. But for the question to be answered, and a bit of simplification, I think the four he picked are a good answer.
"I wanted to take a chainsaw and chop Vince Russos head of. Because he would have kil led the fn business" - Jim Cornette
Eddie Mansfield??
Just about spewed my drink with the "Sgt Pepper album cover" comment.
Could not disagree more with these dinosaurs.
Eric Bichoff is looking a little like Steven Segal.
Cornette just named his competition during the 80s and the 90s lol……this isn’t a Mount Rushmore its Corny’s Death Note
Vince macmahon,Paul Heyman,shawn miceals,jim heard would be my personal one.
what has shawn done him and hhh help win the monday night war
Shawn Michaels is patient 0 for all the Get My Shit In, 4,500 flips and superkicks per match, mudshow goofs. They mimic him without realizing the psychology behind why he did what he did. He's the influence to the Young Bucks and all of their grade school nonsense.
Ole Anderson for all the good things he did should still be in consideration for this.
Vince Russo reminds me of my uncle
Surpised he didn’t say Bischoff. In fact, I thought the face on the far left side was Bischoff as it looks more like him than Herd. Lol.
I’m surprised Santino Marella, twinkle toes, my little boy pockets & Hannibal wasn’t mentioned for current Rushmore Of Wrestling.
What did Santino do ?
they didn't contribute to the downfall of pro wrestling over the past two decades, they're just a symptom of its current state
What about Jack Prefer?!?!
benoit?
Honorable mentions: kevin Dunn and Johnny ace
“..the ass end of a mole hill!” Lol
The artwork done it for me. Now that I know who they are I just need to watch the video to find out Corny's (always) excellent explanation
Where is Kevin Dunn???
I really only see 2 Herd, McMahon (shit stain was just a henchman of his) and not sure paul had enough of a audience to do anything without McMahon.
Damn Jim forgot to add The Bucky Beaver 😂
Bucky didn't have that type of power like the others had lol
I wanna point out that Vince looks like Spock now from Star Trek.....LMAOO MERRY CHRISTMAS 🎅
They're not gonna put Dixie Carter on there but they'd put Paul Heyman? Give me a break.
Merry Christmas y'all
Never thought I would stick up for Jim Herd but to be fair to that idiot he was never influential, I don't think anyone has ever tried to book like him. I'd sawp him out for Bischoff because though Bischoff wasn't that bad he did start the trend of building the show around stables and over filling stables, booking multiple stablescetc that we saw in TNA and now AEW which has maybe ten stabkes at once and sometimes stables within stables.
He fired flair
You can't forget about Hulk Hogan.
You could probably argue for Eric Bischoff if you blame him for WCW's ridiculous contracts. Signing Hogan was kind of a faustian bargain because while he attracted a lot of attention to WCW, he was always going to use his creative control to put himself on top. As a face he dominated to a ridiculous extent and the nWo basically saved things by having Hogan become the top heel. But once it become time for the faces to win, he wouldn't let it happen and you get nonsense like the finger poke of doom to keep the nWo going and the ratings dropped. Does WCW TV get cancelled if it was still doing the ratings it was getting in the 96-98 time frame?
Triple H could be included since him getting the push from hell in 2002-03 cratered the WWE's viewership numbers and if he wasn't the son-in-law he would never have been able to do that. With the WWE being the only company with national TV at the time that had a huge effect on the diminished audience size we see today.
But Russo is the ultimate choice. So much nonsensical wrestling "tropes" these days where no one seems to know why they're doing it that way comes from Russo. Russo had no subtlety and no patience so what should be exceptional once-in-a-while concepts get overused, often in the same show. So when you watch AEW and see that every interview segment gets interrupted and every match has some post-match beatdown and every "feud" jumps immediately to gimmick matches - that's Russo's influence. "Normal" matches and interviews and segments ironically became rare because that idiot had no attention span.
I fucking love this comment!!! Much respect fully agreed!!!!!!
Post match and pre match beat downs were a thing even in the 80s. Russo didn't do it any more aggressively than it was done during the territories. It's how you get heat and build feuds. Every feud can't be centered about guy being mad during a best of 7 series.
Six Faces..
Edge, Christian, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, D-Von Dudley, Bubba Ray Dudley
And carve the faces in front of ladders, with chairs and tables next to them.
This is absolutely correct.
Corny didn't add himself for his awful time with ROH
Vince Russo
Eric Bischoff
Vince McMahon
Jim Herd
'In a barn in front of 12 people'
I like Jimmy's list. I think Paul Heyman gets a bad rap, however, because of ECW. But I don't think anybody else could replace those four.
Vince did not kill the territories, the owners of those territories killed their own product. some of which were in business a lot longer then Vince and should have been able to out smart him but got to complacent. I love Jim but if he is adding Heyman then he should also add himself as he is the one who brought New Jack in who was nothing more then a bully. i agree with Herd and Russo but Vince and Paul added more positive then negative in my opinion
Surprised Bischoff didn't make Cornette's bad influence of Mount Rushmore.
Mick Foley? Isn't he responsible for backyard wrestling?
Replace Paul E with Tony and there you go!
0:43 that was funny 😄