@@LeptospirosiOnly the Thema 8.32 was unfortunately a FWD and with not exactly the most powerful Ferrari V8 of the time. In fact it had the same power and similar performances of the Turbo 16V.
Coming from someone who's owned a 400E and driven a 500E: The visual differences are subtle, however the visceral one are not. The moment you mash the throttle and take off you know it's something special. Thanks for sharing 👍
Same experience. My dad had a 400e which was basically a 300e with a V8 dropped in. Plenty fast, but sloppy handling and terrible steering. The 500e was a finely tuned machine.
@@gregs8685 the 500E is still far from a sporty car though. If you expect the 400E to handle like a sports car, you’re missing the point. It was designed as a powerful luxury cruiser and still handled well for the time period. The 500E isn’t anything special either by today’s standards, but its limited production numbers are what makes it so sought after.
@@the8419 The 500E is built to be a fast long distance GT car. It is not a sport car. I had a 400E together with the 500E and they are very different. The 400E is a calm, yet rather fast but it does not urge you on while the 500E just make you go faster and the speed increases witout you noticing - you have to be alert on that! I keep my 500E, had it for 15 years now.
As a lucky owner of one, you undersold it! In terms of quality, engineering and pedigree, with out doubt the high point of the post-war era of Mercedes Benz, which in tern is the premium Automotive manufacturer of motor cars. You can buy cheaper and more economical, but you can’t buy a better, high performance 4 door saloon. I have done a few tweaks on mine, and now have a high performance 6 Litre engine ready to install. People from the car groups always say the same thing, that old Merc took some keeping up with, and there from well known performance brands. Low mileage or AMG E60 models, if you can find one, will surely be the best investment you can make? Great video and always a pleasure to talk about 500E or help other owners.
I am also the happy owner of a 500E since 15 years, an early 1993. I lowerd it 1 inch put all new rubber and dampers ( original ) in the suspension and the EVO 2 wheels. I am looking for stiffer sway bars and on the lookout for bigger breaks since the originals are not up to the jobb in high speeds. I also have stainless exhaust with a racecat ( highquality Ferrita from Sweden that add 10 -15% power ). On the whish list is a five speed manual transmisson!
@@hanshogqvist7927 If I were you, if yours doesn't have it already, instead of a 5 speed manual, I'd install a Mercedes 5 speed automatic of the time of even one taken out of an SL R129. I would preserve the charm of that W124 and (if you have the 4 speeds now) increase performances.
I worked for an MB dealership in the late 90’s and I LOVE the W124 platform, last of the proper Merc’s. They were extremely well built, very refined and had plenty of whaft, even the lowly E200 was a good car. Not sure that I recognise any Porsche input on this motor but, it’s a fantastic car and I love the designs on the leather seats. THIS is a car that I would love to own.
Because there wasn't any input from Porsche on this car. They just nailed together bits and pieces from Mercedes. It was giving Porsche something to work on, when times were tough for Porsche. That's what you do as neighbors.
@@21stcenturybohemian I drove a w124 300e and it was tight compared to allot of other cars of the era. Is it a Miata? No. I also think the w116 s class handles very well for what it is. Compared to modern stuff they are worlds apart.
Keep in mind that Porsche was started as an engineering consulting company, who also happened to make cars. There are tons of cars (and even some motorcycles), not to mention post WWII tanks which were engineered by Porsche, but people would never recognize as such. Given the sensitivity of their customers to having their engineering called into question, Porsche has kept these projects strictly hush-hush. Some which have been acknowledged (in addition to the 500E and the Audi) are the 1999-2005 Opel Zafira, 2003-05 Renault Clio V6 Renault Sport “Phase 2”, 1976 VAZ-Porsche 2103, 1984-2003 VAZ-2108/Lada Samara, 2000-03 Subaru Legacy B4 Blitzen, 1953 Porsche 542/Studebaker Z-87, 1984-93 SEAT Ibiza “System Porsche”, 2006-15 Daewoo Tosca/Chevrolet Epica and the 2002-18 Harley-Davidson V-Rod. I'm sure that there are others which are still secret.
Wow, thx for increasing my vocabulary on Porsche contributions. This you would like, Ferdinand Porsche invented the Electric Car with 4 motors in 1895-96.
And not to forget the Porsche involvment when Volvo created the new 3 liter white block inline 6 for the 960 that became the base for the 5 & 4 cylinder engines in the 850, 40, 70, S80 and XC90 cars and the development of the V70R.
@Preston Newcomb I never knew they were involved in such a degree.I knew Porsche was also helping tuning the exhaust to get that 850 sound they had which was just something else. Thank you for the input 👍
We raced it in the time with our own E12 M535i, which was over a decade old than, multiple times, E500 had way more power and it left us in the dust on the highway but off the highway it stood no chance
Good report...one of those agree/disagree with the conclusions...more about the personal pov. I never felt you were pushing the car...or if you were, the car was giving it to you but in so much the Mercedes way that you didn't feel it. The real comparison is how the Lexus 400 has held up compared to a 400 E Mercedes. After all the miles and years, the Lexus has all the style and appeal of an old Camry...while the Mercedes is still...a Mercedes.
Thanks for posting this, I always appreciate those who do the effort of sharing. You are a real gentleman, the car was lent to you and you treated her with respect. CONGRATULATIONS. This is also why you didn't discover the Porsche in her: you didn't drive fast enough! 😄 Allow me an anecdote: years ago when there were more trees than radars along the roads, a friend who is a pilot drove us from Ollioules to the Paul Ricard race track in South of FRANCE. He KNOWS that road and is actually a Porsche driver. On arrival he said: "this is a 4 doors Porsche". I never had gone up that road faster, and I'm by no means a slow driver. Thank you for the respecfull test drive. Now as far as 500e are concerned there are 2 types of people: those who own one and those who speak of it. Bought mine in 2000, she's superior to the E50 AMG that I got more recently. It is a delight to drive. Take care everybody, life has an end and paradise is probably here. 🙏🏼
Growing up my Dad daily drove a 500E with lots of Renntech goodies. Sadly it ended up getting totaled from a highway accident but that car was hands down the best sounding engine I have ever heard
Hey Jack, love your channel. Love what you're doing on here man. Great work. Keep it up and I always look forward to the next episodes so keep on going man. I especially liked it when you bought the Jaguar and you started getting all this stuff repaired on it and you started actually listing everything and showing everything and really breaking it all down. Very helpful. Very informative. I don't think I'll ever buy my own Jaguar but still really cool
RS2 is just a hopped up S2 Avant. My friend has an RS2 and I used to have an S2 Avant. Yes, RS2 has some Porsche bits, but you can chiptune the S2, throw some larger brakes, Recaro seats (which were optional on S2 Avant) and blindfolded you would be hard pressed to tell them apart, especially the driving experience. The stock suspension itself on RS2 is identical to the S2 Avant (shocks/springs). RS2 is overhyped because of all the Porsche badges, but the fun fact is that Audi built a lot fewer S2 Avants making them more rare (~1800 vs ~3000 units).
I haven’t driven either but based on magazine reviews of the day the RS2 is way more car than an S2. Similar to how the B7 S4 pales in comparison to the B7 RS4.
Yes you can modify an S2 very successfully, however the suspension differs on the RS2 with different shocks and antiroll bar rates. The RS2 was a lot of fun and although I never owned one I drove a good few. I did a similar job modifying a B5 S4, with the help of QST back in the day, with Porsche brakes and coil over suspension, exhaust and remap, but it was never a match for my B5 RS4 that came afterwards and the modifications took their toll on the longevity of the car’s other parts, especially bushes . I’ve driven modified B8 S4s that were as quick as my B8 RS4, but nothing like as much fun, or as well sorted. I now have my second C7 RS6, this time with DRC, I can’t see myself touching this car, as there’s masses of power and for its size it drives really well. I still hanker after an RS2, maybe one day!
@@simonelliott5956 Shocks and Springs are identical. Check your ETKA. Front sway bar is larger but that only induces understeer. Need a larger rear bar to curb some of that BTDT. RS2 is nice and special but S2 Avant can be just as good for very few $$. Interesting tidbit. Stock RS2 wheels are 7” wide while S2 Avant is 7.5” wide. For life of me I don’t understand Porsche’s thinking. They have 8 and 9” Cup 1s that would have fit the bill. Why go narrower and then squeeze a 245 on it is beyond me. Anything after 1995 built by Audi is of no interest to me. Cheers
Have we seen enough of that corner at the bottom of the hill yet? It's in nearly every one of Harry Metcalfe's videos and now yours. All we need is for James to pay you a visit and it can be in his too! :) How about the sweeping turns through the woods above Adlestrop (where I persuaded a friend that he should buy Lotuses by letting him take my Excel out during a cricket match) or leaning into that right angle left-hander above Shipton? That's a corner you wouldn't want to do in a TVR without life insurance. One thing you could do with such a great country road setting is to choose yourself a circuit, set a benchmark with the Elise, and then see how other cars fare against the Elise's time. It really would be very interesting to see if any modern car could beat it. With an ordinary human at the wheel it would also be very relevant to real world experience.
W124 E420. Had one, the engine had the sound of an electric motor. No interruptions in idle, just one smooth electric like buzz. I guess they were trying to equal the Lexus which at the time was a champion of smoothness and quiet, it makes sense. Loved the sound of that engine.
When I'd come into a corner a little bit faster than I wanted to in a W 124, I was impressed by how it would just go through, no fuss. That's one reason the 124 was great, agility.
Fair assessment, Porsche built due to lack of MB engineering/development capacity. Special... yes, a MB Porsche.. probably not. Subtle mods like the flared arches but little else to differentiate it. However, in any event still a very very special W124, rare and desirable. Thanks for sharing it with us Jack!
I remember getting a ride to school almost daily in a dark blue chrome striped E300 diesel with a grey leather interior and lovely growly turbo diesel.
Came so close to buying one of these back when they were cheap 15 years ago,, just couldn't find one I liked,,, got a '93 c124 Cabrio instead,, wonderful,, but I wish I'd looked harder for a 500e. My mechanic said the 400E's were a pig to work on,,, can't imagine this being any better. I didn't realize the 400E's were an America-only thing.
Wrong. The 400 was sold all over Europe too, with England being excluded for some reason. Its a 4.2 liter, not 4.0. The 500 is a nearly identical car. Also, it was Porsche’s job to fit the V8 into the chassis. Not many changes were actually made from the standard W124. There are NO Porsche parts in the car whatsoever. They didn’t do “practically everything.” The 500E was never meant to compete with any Lexus, the 400E was, although it was still a lot more expensive than the LS400.
@@silver750iL the 4.2 is the same engine and external dimensions as the 5.0. The only difference is displacement. The 4.2 was offered in other cars in the UK, such as the W140, labeled as 400SE, 400SEL and eventually S420.
One of my Bucket List cars. Those wheels don’t do it justice, I think it came as standard with 18” 8 holes (citation needed), which looked a whole lot better to me. You either get W124’s or you don’t. If you do, this is the ultimate. I’d kill for one, metaphorically speaking.
Hello, the original 500e came with the 16x8 rims. Et 34. Tires were 225x55x16ZR all round. Mine is still in this configuration. And I think it IS a "Porsche" as it behaves quite differently from a standard W124. If you want to know : push the throttle! 😄
My all time favourite car was a first gen W124 300TE-24 estate which I had from new at the start of the 90s for 3 years doing 100k miles, brilliant fast car. On collection I always remember the sales guy asked if I had seen one of these 500E they had in. I did not get a drive, but he was critical of the steering wheel not being square to the driving seat if I remember correctly. I assumed it was due to the engine making the steering column awkward to route.
Very interesting road test, I have always hankered after one, especially when they were trading for 10k. Is it better than the e34 M5 3.6? Probably my all-time favourite saloons. Also how would the e60 W124 stack up against a 3.8 e34 M5. For me its a tough call and money would be a big influence. Unfortunately all out of my reach now unless I sell things I really dont want to.
Yes, the e34 M5 (US spec) is among the best cars I've ever driven also, and it _would_ be interesting to compare it with the 500E. I also had an e28 M5 -- a wonderful car in its own right. I think my preference would probably be for the BMW over the 500E. What would also be interesting is a comparison between the 500E and the e39 M5.
Driven the 500E quite a bit, and totally agree with your conclusions. It like the AMGs of the era were blisteringly fast and smooth high speed sedans. They were not sports cars. Too heavy. The closest I've ever come to a mercedes sedan that truly felt like a sports car was a w202 C43 AMG I got to build for a customer in 2006. He got it from an auction with an incinerated engine due to a broken thermostat. It wasn't economical to rebuild it, so we sourced an engine from a non supercharged '00 S55AMG and installed that. New Bilstein B6 dampers with H&R springs went in too. That car could be steered with the throttle like an e46 or e90 M3. One of these days I'll build one for myself.
I really fancy an old car from this generation, something to just get in and have a relaxing long drive in. I use a friend’s 20 something year old base model Passat sometimes and it’s just so comfortable, it offers something modern cars just don’t give.
Hey Jack story I heard was once porsche flared everything to get the set up right it would no longer fit down the production line at Sindelfingen ? - hence porsche got to put them together at Zuffenhausen as well ? Love the channel - I am porsche guy now but curious how the Ferrari is getting on. We need to hook up I have an early Alfa 1750 which you might prefer to your original one !! All the best Andy
Hi Jack from Sydney, Australia. Porsche were basically the "mechanics" that fitted Mercedes components into a Mercedes , to be blunt Porsche were paid to make the Mercedes componentry off one Mercedes , fit onto another Mercedes, they were paid for the basic hammer and tack work to make the parts fit for the most economic price . My cousin stated that it was cheaper to get Porsche to do this, than it was to pull Mercedes guys off the W140 program, as this was supposed to be a retort to the Japanese newcomers--- think you can build a REAL luxury car, well look at this. Porsche's job was to make them fit with the most minimal alterations to the basic shell as possible. To use as much off the shelf Merc' componentry as possible to keep it precise & simple. Porche's main job was to sort the width of the front box chassis structural beams & their fitment to the cabin firewall structure. WHY, Well I had a cousin that worked for Mercedes Benz North America, they wanted a "hero" car that was to the new "yuppie" demographic. With M-B N.A. knowing the Lexus was coming , the 4 litre E class would give a car that they could sell to the younger wealthy folk, as they would not buy a big S class in the quantities required. However a lot of the "yuppies" grew up on a car "diet" of Datsuns, Toyota's & Honda's and Toyota was just about to deliver a single K.O. punch to US European car sales. M-B N.A. was seriously worried that if they did not generate a small compact powerful luxury car, they may as well start packing up to leave the USA in coming years. As when the older M-B clients passed away, so would the sales of the BIG $$ making S Class sales. Mercedes Benz took a leaf out of Cadillac's book of ideas, as when Euro car sales started having an impact in the early 1970's, GM's Cadillac division spent serious money & time developing the "compact" Seville for late in1976 sales year. The result is what the market was looking for, way better in fact, GM's guess at sales was well under what the market wanted & they ramped up production, plus it had a big ticket price, as it had a short options list as it already came fully loaded. the 500E was to do the same for M-B N.A. be the big ticket item people came to the showroom to look at, but they could walk away with a 400E for a similar price to a Lexus. In the late 1960's M-B N.A. also developed the W109 280SE 4.5 litre V8 car JUST for the US market, other countries received the rather gutless 3.5litre V8's. In 1970my mum ordered a new W111 280SEC 3.5ltr V8 convertible, made V8 engine sounds but could hardly get out of its own way, compared to her prior car, a 1961 Jaguar 3.8 ltr mk10. The amazing thing was the mk10 was over a half ton heavier , was a slightly larger 6-cylinder engine, which had way more power and the Jag mk10 delivered way better gas mileage too. In 17months the problems with the Merc drove mum mad & she goy rid of it and spent the extra money to buy the very last 1971 model Jaguar mk10 which had been renamed a Jaguar "420G". So when the 2 cars were new a fully loaded final mk10 was more expensive that the convertible Mercedes. Looking at it now in 2023 , I feel sorry for all the people that pay $300,000 plus for one of those Merc' convertibles , as when new it was half the car the Jag was , and mum kept her car for 36 years & it saved her life when a drunk & drugged builder in a 7 tonne truck ran into her and other cars stopped at a pedestrian crossing on boxing day 2007. Jack, RE the 500E handling & sports car feel. I had driven my cousins "company car" his new 500E when it was 10 days old, it felt to me like a sports car, it was quite impressive, even its rear independent suspension which had been made decently stiff so it did not give the usual drunken Mercedes rear end feel with only part of the rear tyre tread on the ground in bends. As when you have grown up with a diet of Jaguar IRS where it's the best of both worlds live rear & full IRS all in one as Jags IRS gives total trye tread on the tar at all times & no weird drunk walking feel from the weird cambering effect from the Merc rear pivot/hinge diffs. 500E vs BMW M cars, some were raced on tracks, the Mercedes ate the BMW's in cornering and sheer power, BMW was "bashed" with a lead fist contained in a silken velvet glove, I have seen plenty of footage on film where as a comparison it looked like someone in a ordinary street car BMW had placed some racing numbers on the doors and attempted to go racing, whereas the 500E ahead was a proper racing car , the BMW's thrills & spills and eventual destruction was well amusing, one could call it a serious drubbing by the 500E's. Maybe the car you are driving in this video presentation is now by age tired in the mechanics & not handling & driving like a sports sedan, however when they were new, they felt somewhat better. As an aside , my cousins own personal car is a late 1987 model year 1988 w124 300ce coupe he has owned since new to this day in 2023 , in an unusual deep metallic grey which has a kind of underside of mushroom color in it , combined with the extra cost Mercedes blue glass throughout the car & a lovely but rich hue of blue leather , now or back then the coupe that goes with these is possibly the nicest ever German coupe no matter the year it was made. When new should your pockets have been filled with enough cash the new front suspension set up , plus optional but more costly Citroen-esque self levelling suspension could be had , this transforms the car , and stops the usual drunken wallowing only half the tread on the ground Merc rear end , plus even with self-level the cars retain rear coil springs so you can never come out one morning to use it and find it has subsided & car is laying on the ground like my uncles 300SEL 6.3 often had decided to.
Love the videos and the channell, although you are a bit wrong, the S class w140 was created to beat the ls400, and mercedes went 10 milions over budget to create that car, the 600SEL was the car that was supposed to put the LS 400 away
I have had a short ride in one od these many years ago at Brooklands, so I was surprised to see the amount of wobble in the video. If you want to experience a real hot saloon Mercedes, you should try a good 300SEL 6.3!
That wobble is roll stiffness, my E55 does it to on public roads, you wouldn't have noticed it on a race track but pre air suspension they had to use thick antiroll bays to keep the flattish on cornering.
The low gearing really helps these feel lively compared to something like my E55. Makes more of a difference than you'd think given that I've had modern hot hatches hang with my AMG until I get to over 120 where it can start to pull away, the 500e is better at sensible speeds in the real world.
that's a very nice luxo-barge, but it ain't anything like a porsche i've been to harrods 4 times, but that don't make me posh .... good vid young man, keep it up PS do you wave to harry when he is going past you...
I've deleted my original comment, as i discovered i was misinformed. The ordinary W124-cars doesn't have rack and pinion steering. All W124s have recirculating ball steering. ..but: They come with different ratios, and different steering boxes. Apparently, according to a Merc-forum i looked at, there are the following options: Stock 6-cyl coupes = 3.3-3.6 turns LTL, ratio ~15.3 Sport 6-cyl coupes = 3.1-3.4 turns LTL, ratio ~14.6 Stock 6-cyl sedans = 3.1-3.4 turns LTL, ratio ~14.6 Sport 6-cyl sedans = 3.0-3.2 turns LTL, ratio ~14.0 Stock V8 cyl sedans = 3.13 turns LTL, ratio ~14.5 Sport V8 cyl sedans = 3.0-3.2 turns LTL, ratio ~13.9 ..and: again based on what i can find in Merc forums, the steering box in the E500 is from the R129 platform, the Merc SL of that time, only it has altered mounting points. One would expect a SL steering to feel different to a W124. I remembered an owner talking about the downside of an E500 being that it stood out from the rest of the 124s by having a recirculating ball steering, and thought i got that misinformation confirmed by several car reviewers who talked about the recirculating ball steering on the E500. I now see that they, of course talked about it in comparison to other somewhat comparable cars, and not as a stand out feature of the E500 compared to the other 124-cars. Whoops. My bad. I'm sorry i accidentally lied to you. Error has now been corrected :)
This is very helpful info. It’s my car and Jack was quick to pick up on the lack of steering feedback which is my only gripe with this car. Have previously owned an R129 500SL I recall the steering more precise than this E500. I haven’t driven another so can’t compare. Maybe something to investigate as the ratios above are not vastly different and from the other 124’s yet the feedback or lack of is. Chrs
@@maclachj1 Congratulations. You own a very cool car :) I went back and rewatched Matt from TheSmokingTire drive an E500. At the end of the video he says that he thinks he likes the E500 steering better than his 2001 SL 500 Sport (late R129 if i remember correctly). Perhaps a good idea to have someone in the know have a look at your car.
Jack, Porsche in the late 80’s was almost bankrupt, Mercedes outsourced the some of the assembly to Porsche, the actual to and fro between the two factories was a logistical nightmare. Actual fact, Mercedes with the first few cars coming down the production line, discovered that the the 500E’s wider front wings the car wouldn’t actually fit in the production line. As the 500E was always destined to be low volume, they then contacted Porsche Porsche’s input was merely assembling Mercedes parts, nothing else, they didn’t re-engineer it like they did with the Audi
I do think I‘ve read the assembly line was slightly too narrow to get the wider car through - so they had to outsource to desperate Porsche at this time, which was a lovely win-win situation. Especially as they are very close to each other, based near Stuttgart.
This aspect is also not widely acknowledged; Porsche were really in a bad situation at that time financially and this gave them a much needed financial bump to avert potential bankruptcy. Hard to believe that now when you see how healthy their balance sheet must be but the world, and sports car market, was significantly different at the start of the 90’s.
The 400E and the later E420 Mopf2) were both sold in Germany and other countrys as well. Porsche needed production and Mercedes had already waitinglists for there cars.
Next car? YES:-) Alfa's. Il monstro ES30 or a Aston Martin DB7 i6 or something with a really mystical aura like BMW's 507. But than please a really authentic description how it drives. No "Jay- Leno-ish" "It drives fantastic, like a modern car" I can hear this anymore. Best wishes. Great channel. Keep on rollin. Good job!!! :-) PS: No borrow from BMW. I think that than you can forget neutral spontaneous speech...
@@Number27 Nevertheless it is just wrong. Porsche isn't some artifical term. it is the family name of the founder and there are still members of the Porsche family involved in the company. It is just disrepectful to pronounce anyone's name intentionaly wrong.
I had an early (1991) high mileage example some 15 years ago for a couple of years. Definitely powerful but in an odd "gentleman's muscle car" way. A 400 E (or E420) is probably enough car for most, unless you need Autobahn speeds. My German spec'ed 500 E had a partial fabric interior and was almost totally devoid of options, except for the quirky digital trip computer, making it feel like some kind of an early prototype. Between the Porch-Mercedes (Por-sha? Porsch?) and my '86 Audi TQ sedan, I kept the Audi (that the Mercedes was supposed to replace).
It’s fast but you have no idea how fast you are going . That’s a Mercedes . Mercedes drivers didn’t want to feel the road, hear the engine . It’s about moving quickly in comfort .
Actually W124 is not that big anymore by today's standards. Quite heavy yes. But it's shorter and smaller than current Audi A4 at 474 cm in length (versus Audi A4 476 cm). Even Porsche 911 these days is bloated and big which (imho) has completely destroyed the original feel of the car. I mean who cares how fast they are? Soulless, electric cars are faster anyway.
The pre Internet European automotive world is very different than a lot of RUclipsrs think, in those times the customer relation with performance and expensive car buyers was much much smaller and closer, specially in Germany itself, Netherlands and Austria and Swiss where their was simply a request from Mercedes customers who wanted a more Alpina like than Mpower fast car in times when using these cars for real and not only on the autobahn was possible and so also really used for they where build for. Fast long work travel and in the weekend fast with the kids to Tirol and back, Mercedes made this car on request of it's customers
It does actually look lovely. It hides the fact its a big barge, very well. Never driven one but from your review, it appears to drive slightly better than a barge and, slightly more towards the sports saloon its trying not to be...I think 🤔
Hi Jack, I’ve looked high and low but I’ve never seen a RHD version of the 500E - either in reviews or for sale. Was an RHD version ever made? Do you know? Best and Merry Christmas, David
Your point of steering is rather telling. Having owned many different SLs and Coupes, I conclude that the smaller engine cars (i.e. 320 SLs) make for a far more responsive (less nose heavy) experience. The ride is that of a far more nimble and ultimately enjoyable drive. Obviously the larger 500s and 55 AMG produce a far greater punch and acceleration in a straight line (a la classic American hot rod) which is most impressive, but becomes far less fun at anything with a curve in it. The other two advantages of the smaller capacity engine cars are the lower prices to purchase and superior fuel efficiency.
Absolutely agree - when I was looking at W124's 4yrs ago I quickly concluded the 280E handled better than the 320E, the difference in front end weight & resulting balance was very noticeable to me. 280E's from Japan come with a factory programmed 1st gear start trans (none of that silly E/S switch stuff) & so an immaculate, low-mileage Japan import with factory AC was sourced. 4 years later, it's just hit 100k km, wants for nothing & is used as if it were a (pampered) new car. Easiest car to live with I've ever owned, currently cruising effortlessly along the DE Autobahns all day long at 120kph which seems to be the sweet spot for the 4-speed trans & returns fuel consumption of aprox 8.5lt/100km (accelerates up to 150/160 quick enough if need be). What's not to like? I love it even more having driven a lot of current model rentals over the same routes during the last 6 months. What are these lower prices you speak of? In DE a really good W124 is now a €10k + proposition if you are lucky.
I don’t believe that Mercedes wanted a V8 in the W124 because of Toyotas’ Lexus 400/430. That’s because they already had the W126 S class range which the Lexus was aimed at. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
1:52 How do you alter the cubic capacity of an engine from 5L to 4L just by shortening the conrods…? 👀🙄🧐😎😜 In order to reduce the stroke it’s necessary to fit a different crankshaft.
This is from the age when Mercedes brand meant exactly this - quality, comfort and power. They just wanted to make another good powerful car, without losing comfort or handling. BMW was below Mercedes as people didn't view sportiness as cool as luxury.
Nicking Harry Metcalfe’s road test route?
I live closer to that road than Harry does.. but I generously let him use it! 😆😆
Well spotted
Thought it looked familiar!
I'd take this Merc over any of the current crop, with their blingy styling. I love the seats!
Indeed, the current Mercedes’ interiors are awful; not well made, chintzy, bling, lots of shiny silver plastic. Grim,
Could not agree more! My dream daily driver!
These cars were an amazing work of restrain for such luxury cars.
It is up there with the Lancia Thema 32 for me.
@@LeptospirosiOnly the Thema 8.32 was unfortunately a FWD and with not exactly the most powerful Ferrari V8 of the time. In fact it had the same power and similar performances of the Turbo 16V.
The W124 was a class act!
Sorry, but it absolutely DOES make a difference if you call it a 500E or an E500.
Coming from someone who's owned a 400E and driven a 500E: The visual differences are subtle, however the visceral one are not. The moment you mash the throttle and take off you know it's something special. Thanks for sharing 👍
Same experience. My dad had a 400e which was basically a 300e with a V8 dropped in. Plenty fast, but sloppy handling and terrible steering. The 500e was a finely tuned machine.
Yes, that’s due to the extra power and different rear diff gear ratio.
@@gregs8685 the 500E is still far from a sporty car though. If you expect the 400E to handle like a sports car, you’re missing the point. It was designed as a powerful luxury cruiser and still handled well for the time period. The 500E isn’t anything special either by today’s standards, but its limited production numbers are what makes it so sought after.
@@the8419 The 500E is built to be a fast long distance GT car. It is not a sport car. I had a 400E together with the 500E and they are very different. The 400E is a calm, yet rather fast but it does not urge you on while the 500E just make you go faster and the speed increases witout you noticing - you have to be alert on that! I keep my 500E, had it for 15 years now.
@@hanshogqvist7927 what country are you?
As a lucky owner of one, you undersold it! In terms of quality, engineering and pedigree, with out doubt the high point of the post-war era of Mercedes Benz, which in tern is the premium Automotive manufacturer of motor cars. You can buy cheaper and more economical, but you can’t buy a better, high performance 4 door saloon. I have done a few tweaks on mine, and now have a high performance 6 Litre engine ready to install. People from the car groups always say the same thing, that old Merc took some keeping up with, and there from well known performance brands. Low mileage or AMG E60 models, if you can find one, will surely be the best investment you can make? Great video and always a pleasure to talk about 500E or help other owners.
I am also the happy owner of a 500E since 15 years, an early 1993. I lowerd it 1 inch put all new rubber and dampers ( original ) in the suspension and the EVO 2 wheels. I am looking for stiffer sway bars and on the lookout for bigger breaks since the originals are not up to the jobb in high speeds. I also have stainless exhaust with a racecat ( highquality Ferrita from Sweden that add 10 -15% power ). On the whish list is a five speed manual transmisson!
@@hanshogqvist7927 If I were you, if yours doesn't have it already, instead of a 5 speed manual, I'd install a Mercedes 5 speed automatic of the time of even one taken out of an SL R129. I would preserve the charm of that W124 and (if you have the 4 speeds now) increase performances.
I worked for an MB dealership in the late 90’s and I LOVE the W124 platform, last of the proper Merc’s. They were extremely well built, very refined and had plenty of whaft, even the lowly E200 was a good car. Not sure that I recognise any Porsche input on this motor but, it’s a fantastic car and I love the designs on the leather seats. THIS is a car that I would love to own.
Because there wasn't any input from Porsche on this car. They just nailed together bits and pieces from Mercedes. It was giving Porsche something to work on, when times were tough for Porsche. That's what you do as neighbors.
Always amazed me that there were models under the 300E? I guess they never were sold in America .
Don't think the W211 chassis compares at all? In terms of being well built/refined.
I think that's the magic of the 500e. Tight handling, composed and dignified. The prices of these today explain the magic I would say.
"Tight Handling"? Never drove one eh?
@@21stcenturybohemian I drove a w124 300e and it was tight compared to allot of other cars of the era. Is it a Miata? No. I also think the w116 s class handles very well for what it is. Compared to modern stuff they are worlds apart.
Thanks Jack for this video of my dream Mercedes, to me it's the pinnacle everything a Mercedes should be.
Keep in mind that Porsche was started as an engineering consulting company, who also happened to make cars. There are tons of cars (and even some motorcycles), not to mention post WWII tanks which were engineered by Porsche, but people would never recognize as such. Given the sensitivity of their customers to having their engineering called into question, Porsche has kept these projects strictly hush-hush. Some which have been acknowledged (in addition to the 500E and the Audi) are the 1999-2005 Opel Zafira, 2003-05 Renault Clio V6 Renault Sport “Phase 2”, 1976 VAZ-Porsche 2103, 1984-2003 VAZ-2108/Lada Samara, 2000-03 Subaru Legacy B4 Blitzen, 1953 Porsche 542/Studebaker Z-87, 1984-93 SEAT Ibiza “System Porsche”, 2006-15 Daewoo Tosca/Chevrolet Epica and the 2002-18 Harley-Davidson V-Rod. I'm sure that there are others which are still secret.
Tractors too.
Wow, thx for increasing my vocabulary on Porsche contributions. This you would like, Ferdinand Porsche invented the Electric Car with 4 motors in 1895-96.
And not to forget the Porsche involvment when Volvo created the new 3 liter white block inline 6 for the 960 that became the base for the 5 & 4 cylinder engines in the 850, 40, 70, S80 and XC90 cars and the development of the V70R.
@@VinDieselS70 Thx. I think Porsche designs are everywhere...
@Preston Newcomb I never knew they were involved in such a degree.I knew Porsche was also helping tuning the exhaust to get that 850 sound they had which was just something else.
Thank you for the input 👍
I absolutely love 500E's and the car you've reviewed Jack is a fine specimen! I'd take that 500E over a hell of a lot of cars!
We raced it in the time with our own E12 M535i, which was over a decade old than, multiple times, E500 had way more power and it left us in the dust on the highway but off the highway it stood no chance
Good report...one of those agree/disagree with the conclusions...more about the personal pov. I never felt you were pushing the car...or if you were, the car was giving it to you but in so much the Mercedes way that you didn't feel it. The real comparison is how the Lexus 400 has held up compared to a 400 E Mercedes. After all the miles and years, the Lexus has all the style and appeal of an old Camry...while the Mercedes is still...a Mercedes.
Thanks for posting this, I always appreciate those who do the effort of sharing.
You are a real gentleman, the car was lent to you and you treated her with respect. CONGRATULATIONS.
This is also why you didn't discover the Porsche in her: you didn't drive fast enough! 😄
Allow me an anecdote: years ago when there were more trees than radars along the roads, a friend who is a pilot drove us from Ollioules to the Paul Ricard race track in South of FRANCE.
He KNOWS that road and is actually a Porsche driver.
On arrival he said: "this is a 4 doors Porsche".
I never had gone up that road faster, and I'm by no means a slow driver.
Thank you for the respecfull test drive.
Now as far as 500e are concerned there are 2 types of people: those who own one and those who speak of it.
Bought mine in 2000, she's superior to the E50 AMG that I got more recently. It is a delight to drive.
Take care everybody, life has an end and paradise is probably here. 🙏🏼
The little bit you're missing in the shuffling back and forward of bodies is the standard production line wasn't wide enough for the E500.
Exactly
You're correct. He does make mention of it at 10:30
Growing up my Dad daily drove a 500E with lots of Renntech goodies. Sadly it ended up getting totaled from a highway accident but that car was hands down the best sounding engine I have ever heard
As a 20-year owner of an E500, I agree 100% with the author of this video.
I misread your post.
I thought you were posting as a 20 year old owning an E500…
My initial instinct….WTF does he do for a living ? 😀
Hey Jack, love your channel. Love what you're doing on here man. Great work. Keep it up and I always look forward to the next episodes so keep on going man. I especially liked it when you bought the Jaguar and you started getting all this stuff repaired on it and you started actually listing everything and showing everything and really breaking it all down. Very helpful. Very informative. I don't think I'll ever buy my own Jaguar but still really cool
RS2 is just a hopped up S2 Avant. My friend has an RS2 and I used to have an S2 Avant. Yes, RS2 has some Porsche bits, but you can chiptune the S2, throw some larger brakes, Recaro seats (which were optional on S2 Avant) and blindfolded you would be hard pressed to tell them apart, especially the driving experience. The stock suspension itself on RS2 is identical to the S2 Avant (shocks/springs). RS2 is overhyped because of all the Porsche badges, but the fun fact is that Audi built a lot fewer S2 Avants making them more rare (~1800 vs ~3000 units).
I haven’t driven either but based on magazine reviews of the day the RS2 is way more car than an S2. Similar to how the B7 S4 pales in comparison to the B7 RS4.
Yes you can modify an S2 very successfully, however the suspension differs on the RS2 with different shocks and antiroll bar rates. The RS2 was a lot of fun and although I never owned one I drove a good few.
I did a similar job modifying a B5 S4, with the help of QST back in the day, with Porsche brakes and coil over suspension, exhaust and remap, but it was never a match for my B5 RS4 that came afterwards and the modifications took their toll on the longevity of the car’s other parts, especially bushes .
I’ve driven modified B8 S4s that were as quick as my B8 RS4, but nothing like as much fun, or as well sorted. I now have my second C7 RS6, this time with DRC, I can’t see myself touching this car, as there’s masses of power and for its size it drives really well. I still hanker after an RS2, maybe one day!
@@gregs8685 Yes, 100 extra hp can do that. But chiptuning stock ABY will get you close to that number for peanuts. Those engines are very capable.
@@simonelliott5956 Shocks and Springs are identical. Check your ETKA. Front sway bar is larger but that only induces understeer. Need a larger rear bar to curb some of that BTDT.
RS2 is nice and special but S2 Avant can be just as good for very few $$.
Interesting tidbit. Stock RS2 wheels are 7” wide while S2 Avant is 7.5” wide. For life of me I don’t understand Porsche’s thinking. They have 8 and 9” Cup 1s that would have fit the bill. Why go narrower and then squeeze a 245 on it is beyond me. Anything after 1995 built by Audi is of no interest to me. Cheers
This! All this cars being tuned by other manufacturers ime is bs! The rs2 is just an audi and thid is just a typical barge merc 🤣🤣
Audi RS2 also has Porsche fog light/indicator units. You can also see the similarities between the RS2 front bumper and the 1995-98 911 front bumper.
No comparison between this one and the M5 or Lexus. The E500 murdered them all.
Have we seen enough of that corner at the bottom of the hill yet? It's in nearly every one of Harry Metcalfe's videos and now yours. All we need is for James to pay you a visit and it can be in his too! :) How about the sweeping turns through the woods above Adlestrop (where I persuaded a friend that he should buy Lotuses by letting him take my Excel out during a cricket match) or leaning into that right angle left-hander above Shipton? That's a corner you wouldn't want to do in a TVR without life insurance.
One thing you could do with such a great country road setting is to choose yourself a circuit, set a benchmark with the Elise, and then see how other cars fare against the Elise's time. It really would be very interesting to see if any modern car could beat it. With an ordinary human at the wheel it would also be very relevant to real world experience.
W124 E420. Had one, the engine had the sound of an electric motor. No interruptions in idle, just one smooth electric like buzz. I guess they were trying to equal the Lexus which at the time was a champion of smoothness and quiet, it makes sense. Loved the sound of that engine.
When I'd come into a corner a little bit faster than I wanted to in a W 124, I was impressed by how it would just go through, no fuss. That's one reason the 124 was great, agility.
Never a bad video.What a great channel ! Test drive a DB9 if you get a chance Simon.They are perfect.
What a gorgeous car & that interior is beautiful 😍
The moving around between Merc and Porsche plants wasnt so crazy if you know that both factories are very close in and around Stuttgart. 🙂
Fair assessment, Porsche built due to lack of MB engineering/development capacity. Special... yes, a MB Porsche.. probably not. Subtle mods like the flared arches but little else to differentiate it. However, in any event still a very very special W124, rare and desirable. Thanks for sharing it with us Jack!
I remember getting a ride to school almost daily in a dark blue chrome striped E300 diesel with a grey leather interior and lovely growly turbo diesel.
Always liked these Merc's, that thing seems very purposeful even sat still .
Came so close to buying one of these back when they were cheap 15 years ago,, just couldn't find one I liked,,, got a '93 c124 Cabrio instead,, wonderful,, but I wish I'd looked harder for a 500e. My mechanic said the 400E's were a pig to work on,,, can't imagine this being any better. I didn't realize the 400E's were an America-only thing.
Wrong. The 400 was sold all over Europe too, with England being excluded for some reason. Its a 4.2 liter, not 4.0. The 500 is a nearly identical car. Also, it was Porsche’s job to fit the V8 into the chassis. Not many changes were actually made from the standard W124. There are NO Porsche parts in the car whatsoever. They didn’t do “practically everything.” The 500E was never meant to compete with any Lexus, the 400E was, although it was still a lot more expensive than the LS400.
Presumably smaller V8 not sold in UK because of the difficulty making the V8 engine fit RHD cars
@@silver750iL the 4.2 is the same engine and external dimensions as the 5.0. The only difference is displacement. The 4.2 was offered in other cars in the UK, such as the W140, labeled as 400SE, 400SEL and eventually S420.
One of my Bucket List cars. Those wheels don’t do it justice, I think it came as standard with 18” 8 holes (citation needed), which looked a whole lot better to me. You either get W124’s or you don’t. If you do, this is the ultimate. I’d kill for one, metaphorically speaking.
The e500 Limited (which this is- check out the front plate) came with these wheels (and ugly upholstery) as standard.
Hello, the original 500e came with the 16x8 rims. Et 34.
Tires were 225x55x16ZR all round.
Mine is still in this configuration.
And I think it IS a "Porsche" as it behaves quite differently from a standard W124.
If you want to know : push the throttle! 😄
Great to see one of these beasts being reviewed!
My all time favourite car was a first gen W124 300TE-24 estate which I had from new at the start of the 90s for 3 years doing 100k miles, brilliant fast car. On collection I always remember the sales guy asked if I had seen one of these 500E they had in. I did not get a drive, but he was critical of the steering wheel not being square to the driving seat if I remember correctly. I assumed it was due to the engine making the steering column awkward to route.
I'm sure Rowan Atkinson had one of these; absolutely lovely car, more like an Alpina than an M car really.
Very interesting road test, I have always hankered after one, especially when they were trading for 10k. Is it better than the e34 M5 3.6? Probably my all-time favourite saloons. Also how would the e60 W124 stack up against a 3.8 e34 M5. For me its a tough call and money would be a big influence. Unfortunately all out of my reach now unless I sell things I really dont want to.
Yes, the e34 M5 (US spec) is among the best cars I've ever driven also, and it _would_ be interesting to compare it with the 500E. I also had an e28 M5 -- a wonderful car in its own right. I think my preference would probably be for the BMW over the 500E. What would also be interesting is a comparison between the 500E and the e39 M5.
I think the 4 speed automatic really dates the 500e. I’d take the 3.6L M5 and call it a day.
Nice Review of the 500E, beautiful machine, made when Mercedes were at its best.
Driven the 500E quite a bit, and totally agree with your conclusions. It like the AMGs of the era were blisteringly fast and smooth high speed sedans. They were not sports cars. Too heavy. The closest I've ever come to a mercedes sedan that truly felt like a sports car was a w202 C43 AMG I got to build for a customer in 2006. He got it from an auction with an incinerated engine due to a broken thermostat. It wasn't economical to rebuild it, so we sourced an engine from a non supercharged '00 S55AMG and installed that. New Bilstein B6 dampers with H&R springs went in too. That car could be steered with the throttle like an e46 or e90 M3.
One of these days I'll build one for myself.
Looks like a nice example. The number plate spacing is a mess.
Wife's got a 500E..... Fiat though, sadly! Great video, interesting car that I didn't know much about.
I really fancy an old car from this generation, something to just get in and have a relaxing long drive in. I use a friend’s 20 something year old base model Passat sometimes and it’s just so comfortable, it offers something modern cars just don’t give.
The beauty of Analogue over digital my friend.
Thats the car i want!!!! The w124 500e what a car, it’s so expensive to buy but yes it’s the car a wanted!!!
Great car! I wish they made a E500 coupe. That would be my dream car
Driving on Harry Metcalfe's test track again Jack.
Hey Jack story I heard was once porsche flared everything to get the set up right it would no longer fit down the production line at Sindelfingen ? - hence porsche got to put them together at Zuffenhausen as well ? Love the channel - I am porsche guy now but curious how the Ferrari is getting on. We need to hook up I have an early Alfa 1750 which you might prefer to your original one !! All the best Andy
A pre facelift one of these is saloon perfection.
Need to get yourself over here Jack to North Wales. Harry and the boys regularly tested on the EVO Triangle for Car of the Year. 👍
I’ve been. Epic roads!!
Hi Jack from Sydney, Australia. Porsche were basically the "mechanics" that fitted Mercedes components into a Mercedes , to be blunt Porsche were paid to make the Mercedes componentry off one Mercedes , fit onto another Mercedes, they were paid for the basic hammer and tack work to make the parts fit for the most economic price . My cousin stated that it was cheaper to get Porsche to do this, than it was to pull Mercedes guys off the W140 program, as this was supposed to be a retort to the Japanese newcomers--- think you can build a REAL luxury car, well look at this. Porsche's job was to make them fit with the most minimal alterations to the basic shell as possible. To use as much off the shelf Merc' componentry as possible to keep it precise & simple. Porche's main job was to sort the width of the front box chassis structural beams & their fitment to the cabin firewall structure.
WHY, Well I had a cousin that worked for Mercedes Benz North America, they wanted a "hero" car that was to the new "yuppie" demographic. With M-B N.A. knowing the Lexus was coming , the 4 litre E class would give a car that they could sell to the younger wealthy folk, as they would not buy a big S class in the quantities required. However a lot of the "yuppies" grew up on a car "diet" of Datsuns, Toyota's & Honda's and Toyota was just about to deliver a single K.O. punch to US European car sales. M-B N.A. was seriously worried that if they did not generate a small compact powerful luxury car, they may as well start packing up to leave the USA in coming years. As when the older M-B clients passed away, so would the sales of the BIG $$ making S Class sales. Mercedes Benz took a leaf out of Cadillac's book of ideas, as when Euro car sales started having an impact in the early 1970's, GM's Cadillac division spent serious money & time developing the "compact" Seville for late in1976 sales year. The result is what the market was looking for, way better in fact, GM's guess at sales was well under what the market wanted & they ramped up production, plus it had a big ticket price, as it had a short options list as it already came fully loaded. the 500E was to do the same for M-B N.A. be the big ticket item people came to the showroom to look at, but they could walk away with a 400E for a similar price to a Lexus.
In the late 1960's M-B N.A. also developed the W109 280SE 4.5 litre V8 car JUST for the US market, other countries received the rather gutless 3.5litre V8's. In 1970my mum ordered a new W111 280SEC 3.5ltr V8 convertible, made V8 engine sounds but could hardly get out of its own way, compared to her prior car, a 1961 Jaguar 3.8 ltr mk10. The amazing thing was the mk10 was over a half ton heavier , was a slightly larger 6-cylinder engine, which had way more power and the Jag mk10 delivered way better gas mileage too. In 17months the problems with the Merc drove mum mad & she goy rid of it and spent the extra money to buy the very last 1971 model Jaguar mk10 which had been renamed a Jaguar "420G". So when the 2 cars were new a fully loaded final mk10 was more expensive that the convertible Mercedes. Looking at it now in 2023 , I feel sorry for all the people that pay $300,000 plus for one of those Merc' convertibles , as when new it was half the car the Jag was , and mum kept her car for 36 years & it saved her life when a drunk & drugged builder in a 7 tonne truck ran into her and other cars stopped at a pedestrian crossing on boxing day 2007.
Jack, RE the 500E handling & sports car feel. I had driven my cousins "company car" his new 500E when it was 10 days old, it felt to me like a sports car, it was quite impressive, even its rear independent suspension which had been made decently stiff so it did not give the usual drunken Mercedes rear end feel with only part of the rear tyre tread on the ground in bends. As when you have grown up with a diet of Jaguar IRS where it's the best of both worlds live rear & full IRS all in one as Jags IRS gives total trye tread on the tar at all times & no weird drunk walking feel from the weird cambering effect from the Merc rear pivot/hinge diffs.
500E vs BMW M cars, some were raced on tracks, the Mercedes ate the BMW's in cornering and sheer power, BMW was "bashed" with a lead fist contained in a silken velvet glove, I have seen plenty of footage on film where as a comparison it looked like someone in a ordinary street car BMW had placed some racing numbers on the doors and attempted to go racing, whereas the 500E ahead was a proper racing car , the BMW's thrills & spills and eventual destruction was well amusing, one could call it a serious drubbing by the 500E's. Maybe the car you are driving in this video presentation is now by age tired in the mechanics & not handling & driving like a sports sedan, however when they were new, they felt somewhat better.
As an aside , my cousins own personal car is a late 1987 model year 1988 w124 300ce coupe he has owned since new to this day in 2023 , in an unusual deep metallic grey which has a kind of underside of mushroom color in it , combined with the extra cost Mercedes blue glass throughout the car & a lovely but rich hue of blue leather , now or back then the coupe that goes with these is possibly the nicest ever German coupe no matter the year it was made. When new should your pockets have been filled with enough cash the new front suspension set up , plus optional but more costly Citroen-esque self levelling suspension could be had , this transforms the car , and stops the usual drunken wallowing only half the tread on the ground Merc rear end , plus even with self-level the cars retain rear coil springs so you can never come out one morning to use it and find it has subsided & car is laying on the ground like my uncles 300SEL 6.3 often had decided to.
Great review. I love that special leather interior.
Love the videos and the channell, although you are a bit wrong, the S class w140 was created to beat the ls400, and mercedes went 10 milions over budget to create that car, the 600SEL was the car that was supposed to put the LS 400 away
Cheers Jack see if you can have a drive of the Audi RS2 👍👍
I have had a short ride in one od these many years ago at Brooklands, so I was surprised to see the amount of wobble in the video. If you want to experience a real hot saloon Mercedes, you should try a good 300SEL 6.3!
That wobble is roll stiffness, my E55 does it to on public roads, you wouldn't have noticed it on a race track but pre air suspension they had to use thick antiroll bays to keep the flattish on cornering.
one of the best MB ever made! early Panamera :-)
Excellent video with some great content and well researched.
Thanks Chris! Glad you enjoyed it!
Hammer and E60 aside, this is the 124 to have.
I am a happy owner of a -91 500E. Is a beautiful car🤩🤩
The low gearing really helps these feel lively compared to something like my E55. Makes more of a difference than you'd think given that I've had modern hot hatches hang with my AMG until I get to over 120 where it can start to pull away, the 500e is better at sensible speeds in the real world.
My favourite Porsche/Merc. & only loved from afar - never available down under.
that's a very nice luxo-barge, but it ain't anything like a porsche
i've been to harrods 4 times, but that don't make me posh ....
good vid young man, keep it up
PS do you wave to harry when he is going past you...
I've deleted my original comment, as i discovered i was misinformed. The ordinary W124-cars doesn't have rack and pinion steering. All W124s have recirculating ball steering. ..but: They come with different ratios, and different steering boxes. Apparently, according to a Merc-forum i looked at, there are the following options:
Stock 6-cyl coupes = 3.3-3.6 turns LTL, ratio ~15.3
Sport 6-cyl coupes = 3.1-3.4 turns LTL, ratio ~14.6
Stock 6-cyl sedans = 3.1-3.4 turns LTL, ratio ~14.6
Sport 6-cyl sedans = 3.0-3.2 turns LTL, ratio ~14.0
Stock V8 cyl sedans = 3.13 turns LTL, ratio ~14.5
Sport V8 cyl sedans = 3.0-3.2 turns LTL, ratio ~13.9
..and: again based on what i can find in Merc forums, the steering box in the E500 is from the R129 platform, the Merc SL of that time, only it has altered mounting points. One would expect a SL steering to feel different to a W124.
I remembered an owner talking about the downside of an E500 being that it stood out from the rest of the 124s by having a recirculating ball steering, and thought i got that misinformation confirmed by several car reviewers who talked about the recirculating ball steering on the E500. I now see that they, of course talked about it in comparison to other somewhat comparable cars, and not as a stand out feature of the E500 compared to the other 124-cars. Whoops. My bad. I'm sorry i accidentally lied to you. Error has now been corrected :)
This is very helpful info. It’s my car and Jack was quick to pick up on the lack of steering feedback which is my only gripe with this car. Have previously owned an R129 500SL I recall the steering more precise than this E500. I haven’t driven another so can’t compare. Maybe something to investigate as the ratios above are not vastly different and from the other 124’s yet the feedback or lack of is. Chrs
@@maclachj1 Congratulations. You own a very cool car :) I went back and rewatched Matt from TheSmokingTire drive an E500. At the end of the video he says that he thinks he likes the E500 steering better than his 2001 SL 500 Sport (late R129 if i remember correctly). Perhaps a good idea to have someone in the know have a look at your car.
The suspension was not wider for engine clearance. The 400E has the same basic engine, but without the wider suspension.
Jack, Porsche in the late 80’s was almost bankrupt, Mercedes outsourced the some of the assembly to Porsche, the actual to and fro between the two factories was a logistical nightmare.
Actual fact, Mercedes with the first few cars coming down the production line, discovered that the the 500E’s wider front wings the car wouldn’t actually fit in the production line. As the 500E was always destined to be low volume, they then contacted Porsche
Porsche’s input was merely assembling Mercedes parts, nothing else, they didn’t re-engineer it like they did with the Audi
I do think I‘ve read the assembly line was slightly too narrow to get the wider car through - so they had to outsource to desperate Porsche at this time, which was a lovely win-win situation. Especially as they are very close to each other, based near Stuttgart.
This aspect is also not widely acknowledged; Porsche were really in a bad situation at that time financially and this gave them a much needed financial bump to avert potential bankruptcy. Hard to believe that now when you see how healthy their balance sheet must be but the world, and sports car market, was significantly different at the start of the 90’s.
The 400E and the later E420 Mopf2) were both sold in Germany and other countrys as well. Porsche needed production and Mercedes had already waitinglists for there cars.
did porsche build the e420?
@@raycroal No, Daimler-Benz AG
@@edwinblank58 i thought that but people make a lot out of how porsche changed the transmission tunnel for the v8 e.t.c
Thank you for your commentary
Next car? YES:-) Alfa's. Il monstro ES30 or a Aston Martin DB7 i6 or something with a really mystical aura like BMW's 507. But than please a really authentic description how it drives. No "Jay- Leno-ish" "It drives fantastic, like a modern car" I can hear this anymore. Best wishes. Great channel. Keep on rollin. Good job!!! :-) PS: No borrow from BMW. I think that than you can forget neutral spontaneous speech...
By today’s standards they are not a big car. Enjoyed the vid 👍
You’ve just had me looking on eBay ! Cool looking car I wouldn’t pay the cash though
I would absolutely love one of these
It amazes me that some car enthusiasts still don't know that the name of the company isn't "Poarsh".
I know the German pronunciation but it’s not used in the UK.. we say ‘Poarch’ as you say.. 😄
@@Number27 Nevertheless it is just wrong. Porsche isn't some artifical term. it is the family name of the founder and there are still members of the Porsche family involved in the company. It is just disrepectful to pronounce anyone's name intentionaly wrong.
Love them!! Still too expensive!
I had an early (1991) high mileage example some 15 years ago for a couple of years. Definitely powerful but in an odd "gentleman's muscle car" way. A 400 E (or E420) is probably enough car for most, unless you need Autobahn speeds. My German spec'ed 500 E had a partial fabric interior and was almost totally devoid of options, except for the quirky digital trip computer, making it feel like some kind of an early prototype. Between the Porch-Mercedes (Por-sha? Porsch?) and my '86 Audi TQ sedan, I kept the Audi (that the Mercedes was supposed to replace).
Another epic video Jack
Thanks Jack, looks like Porsche did what they could, then M.B stuck another 2 tons on?! Interesting car though with weird leather interior!
I've owned a 400E and a E420 so his little brother. The V8 is superb. To bad the gearbox is from the stone-age ha ha
A truly great car and I’ve always kept a look out for any for sale BUT I simply haven’t seen a single right hand drive version. Do they exist?
I don’t think so..
Don’t just talk, show the performance…
It’s fast but you have no idea how fast you are going . That’s a Mercedes . Mercedes drivers didn’t want to feel the road, hear the engine . It’s about moving quickly in comfort .
MB should've used AMG heads (32 valve).
Excellent review, and a nice car 🙂
Thanks! 👍
At one point they put the E after the number, and it's been like that ever since. Remember that, NUMBER 27!
Actually W124 is not that big anymore by today's standards. Quite heavy yes. But it's shorter and smaller than current Audi A4 at 474 cm in length (versus Audi A4 476 cm). Even Porsche 911 these days is bloated and big which (imho) has completely destroyed the original feel of the car. I mean who cares how fast they are? Soulless, electric cars are faster anyway.
2nd time watching this in 4 weeks, absolute minter, with the much cooler Evo wheels.
To counter your back and forth argument. Both car makers are based in Stuttgart so logistically its less of a chore.
The pre Internet European automotive world is very different than a lot of RUclipsrs think, in those times the customer relation with performance and expensive car buyers was much much smaller and closer, specially in Germany itself, Netherlands and Austria and Swiss where their was simply a request from Mercedes customers who wanted a more Alpina like than Mpower fast car in times when using these cars for real and not only on the autobahn was possible and so also really used for they where build for. Fast long work travel and in the weekend fast with the kids to Tirol and back, Mercedes made this car on request of it's customers
Great video thanks for sharing 👍.
Only just realised the 400E was a 4.2 which was later renamed the E420
Great video, very enjoyable
It does actually look lovely. It hides the fact its a big barge, very well. Never driven one but from your review, it appears to drive slightly better than a barge and, slightly more towards the sports saloon its trying not to be...I think 🤔
Hi Jack, I’ve looked high and low but I’ve never seen a RHD version of the 500E - either in reviews or for sale. Was an RHD version ever made? Do you know? Best and Merry Christmas, David
No, only left hand drive
Lovely video thank you.
Your point of steering is rather telling. Having owned many different SLs and Coupes, I conclude that the smaller engine cars (i.e. 320 SLs) make for a far more responsive (less nose heavy) experience. The ride is that of a far more nimble and ultimately enjoyable drive. Obviously the larger 500s and 55 AMG produce a far greater punch and acceleration in a straight line (a la classic American hot rod) which is most impressive, but becomes far less fun at anything with a curve in it.
The other two advantages of the smaller capacity engine cars are the lower prices to purchase and superior fuel efficiency.
Absolutely agree - when I was looking at W124's 4yrs ago I quickly concluded the 280E handled better than the 320E, the difference in front end weight & resulting balance was very noticeable to me. 280E's from Japan come with a factory programmed 1st gear start trans (none of that silly E/S switch stuff) & so an immaculate, low-mileage Japan import with factory AC was sourced. 4 years later, it's just hit 100k km, wants for nothing & is used as if it were a (pampered) new car. Easiest car to live with I've ever owned, currently cruising effortlessly along the DE Autobahns all day long at 120kph which seems to be the sweet spot for the 4-speed trans & returns fuel consumption of aprox 8.5lt/100km (accelerates up to 150/160 quick enough if need be). What's not to like? I love it even more having driven a lot of current model rentals over the same routes during the last 6 months. What are these lower prices you speak of? In DE a really good W124 is now a €10k + proposition if you are lucky.
Its a great car and great RUclips channel
This generation mercedes is so handsome
I don’t believe that Mercedes wanted a V8 in the W124 because of Toyotas’ Lexus 400/430. That’s because they already had the W126 S class range which the Lexus was aimed at. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
190e Mercedes cosworth
One of the greatest Mercedes of all time
1:52 How do you alter the cubic capacity of an engine from 5L to 4L just by shortening the conrods…? 👀🙄🧐😎😜
In order to reduce the stroke it’s necessary to fit a different crankshaft.
This is from the age when Mercedes brand meant exactly this - quality, comfort and power.
They just wanted to make another good powerful car, without losing comfort or handling.
BMW was below Mercedes as people didn't view sportiness as cool as luxury.
Another Cotswold Review :-)
So it's more up against the alpina B10 then against the M5.