Planescape Torment Review | Through the Looking Glass
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- Опубликовано: 2 ноя 2024
- In which I look at old games I haven't played before to see if they hold up. This time, I examine whether the months I've spent chipping away at Planescape: Torment have been worthwhile.
Get the game: www.gog.com/ga...
The copy used for this review was given to my by my family.
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To your despising the "forced exploration" -- This is true. But I feel that it actually adds to the immersion, because this is probably really similar to what it would be like being The Nameless One, not being able to remember anything. It's noticeable that in the game, you rarely actually have to do all the snooping around if you already know ahead of time where to go. This makes second run-throughs and beyond quite odd an a different experience altogether, because you already know where to go ahead of time -- kind of like a new incarnation of The Nameless One who can actually remember stuff.
The fact that it isn't enjoyable to be forced into such exploration is (in my opinion) the whole point. You get to properly role play as The Nameless One stumbling through a confusing world that he cannot remember anything about. This is why there is so much reward for exploring in the first place -- the game designers are making sure that what the player is being forced to do is still enjoyable, even if they're reluctant to do it in the first place.
This is why I consider the game to be art -- it communicates messages (e.g. this is what it is like to try to search for who you are in a chaotic world where everybody judges you based on impressions you know nothing about; this is what it means to explore; to be a good person, you must not only have good intentions, but actually think deeply about the possibly far-reaching implications of your actions, which require critical thinking and forethought etc etc), and these messages aren't always meant to be "enjoyable". They're meant to evoke emotions across the full spectrum of emotions, they're meant to get the cogs in the head spinning and working hard, they're meant to feel taxing at times and jubilantly rewarding at times. Judging from the mixed range of tones coming out of your review, I'd say this was successfully conveyed by the game designers.
It's not about a lack of faith in design, nor is it necessarily a lack of faith in the agency of the player. It just so happens that there are very *many* responses that we as humans can have that we will not necessarily slip into by default. Experiencing an artful taste of torment might not be what most people will go into a video game to achieve, but this game forces it on you, and I think most people come out the other side at least changed, and that is the point.
That's a very different perspective than I expected, and outside of a couple of places where they might take that too far (requiring you to join the society of sensation, for instance), I can agree with that. I think the reason why I reacted the way I did is because of what I tend to play video games for. When it comes to RPGs, I'm used to being the one in control, where I have greater control over what I wish to explore and how I wish to approach a situation. I can understand being thrown out of my comfort zone in order to make a game work, but if that's not something that I was looking for or expecting, then is that a problem with me not making the connection, or the game for not conveying that earlier? Hmm, I'm gonna need to think about this before I get too much further into the next RPG.
Dr. Jay great video
I think its the issue with the game not conveying it. While the game doesnt need to be explicit about such things, it should be able to implant the idea of why things are done this way to your mind.
It's 4 years after the video and you're spot on. I played this game as a kid and it was something entirely new. I had come from Baldur's Gate where you clearly know your objective at the beginning. I came from games that were more colorful, less gritty, and everything made sense. Towns were organized, people were generally good, and I knew the rules.
Then you drop in to the Mortuary in Sigil. Your first interaction is with a talking skull and then you talk to zombies. What other RPG before then made zombies NPCs you could interact with rather than just enemies to kill? Once you manage to leave, you clearly know you aren't playing by standard rules and you have no clear direction. All you can do is talk to people. And hey, you can ask about Pharod and your Journal. That's excellent game design. You stay focused on the main quest while picking up other parts. Eventually, through talking to everyone and going everywhere, you begin to find answers. Sure a lot of the early game isn't relevant later, but what does come up later is mind blowing. Even the quests you pick up can be different. Helping one person might actually be evil, but the typical RPG would see you trying to help everyone you can.
In short, the lack of familiarity with the setting, lack of handholding on the main quest, and lack of back story for the Nameless One all builds immersion. You are the amnesiac character that doesn't know where you are or what you are doing. You must learn and you must talk to everyone. I've never felt so connected to a video game protagonist than I did to TNO.
@@DrJayReviews if you haven't gone back. You don't have to join the Sensates to continue the story. There is a way around that too. None of the factions are required to beat the game. I managed to avoid it and still progress in my first play through. I believe you can convince Splinter you were already a member based on a previous incarnation being a member.
One thing I have to point out here. I belive that the fact there is pretty much same ending for all (fully finished) paths is intentional. That is one of points the game is making, that you just can't escape consequences of your actions and trying like Nameless One did will only cause more pain and suffering to everyone.
You cannot change that TNO will have to face the music, but you can make it so he faces it aware of the road that got him there and wiser for it.
This is by far the best game that I have ever read.
Planescape Torment is not meant to be superior to Baldurs Gate - it's meant to be different, a game that you may choose to finish with little to no combat, a literary exploration of torment, you could say a story of stories. :)
So it's not about superiority - it's uniqueness. No other game, so far, has managed to pull it off, that's why we remember this game so fondly.
Still a nice video, I get where you're coming from with your arguments. Good job, I'll give you a bit longer gander ;)
I'm loving this review, very well explained and without spoiling stuff. I'll be watching your BG review asap.
The UI is actually amazing in the android version of this game. It feels like it's made for touch screen. If you have bad eyes though, make sure you're playing it on a tablet rather than a phone. I have good eyes and play in both my phone and tablet but I must say, the game really does shine on tablet. Nice review by the way. You need more views, well done.
Definitely the most memorable and cerebrally engaging RPG I've ever played. One of my first introductions into the D&D and Forgotten Realms series. The first time I played this took me about a month to figure out the Society of Sensations, got stumped and put it down for a while.
God knows how much time I spent lost in the Modron Maze, and probably was close to a year before I got any where close to Ravel and the Transcendant One, but I think the first time I played through it I got stumped or couldn't beat him. Definitely played it back to front about a dozen times trying different character class setups and trying to maintain certain alignments or unlocking all of Dak'kons rings, and tattoos.
Completely immersed in this universe I spent countless hours back tracking and finding extra secrets, many of which were figments of my imagination, certain I'd missed or overlooked something. It certainly shaped my idea of what an RPG was, and what I still feel today, should be. I have to say I've never played another game in over a decade that even gets close to scratching this kind of itch, maybe the Baldurs Gate series, but I enjoyed those because I was introduced into the Forgotten Realms books first. Fallout 2 was definitely a major contributor to my impressions of true RPGs.
I find almost all modern "RPGs" are basically just sensory stimulation (bright lights and shiny armor) and loot accumulation, and have very little, if any, intellectually engaging storylines or plot narratives.
I feel as though you probably missed a lot, having said you played the game through in 30 something hours, I probably spent 30 hours just on the first disc or two, and as I said before it was at least a year before I ever beat it. Though I did spent an awful lot of time looking for things that were definitely not there, over analyzing puzzles I was certain had more to them. Sometimes it did prove true, and I played the game many times over.
My original hard copy is still in my closet, though I fear "cd rot" may start setting in soon, as I've been looking into that with a lot of my favourite older games. Another thing that irritates me about modern gaming is only having digital copies.
Theres something extraordinarily satisfying about having a CD, box and physical manual in my hands that digital releases don't fulfil. That, and I'm not a big fan of spending my bandwidth or time downloading a 40gig game that I've already payed for. It's unfortunate that modern gamers, and the industry catering to them, are more interested in flashy graphics and loot, rather than content that stimulates the mind.
This game was, and is, a masterpiece.
You need more subs, your objective view on this game was priceless, subbed!!
I also like diablo,D2 and shinigforce which you have videos on em more reasons to sub, il check em out.
I don't really understand your criticism about attribute requirements. I don't really like rng in games that much, it can be used well but in general I feel like it makes gaming the system an attractive proposition which ruins role playing. If you have a 10% chance to pick a lock for example what's stopping you from reloading a save over and over until you succeed? I feel like it lessens the impact of the stats/skills you've chosen and also encourages immersion breaking behaviors.
Other that I think this is a very well thought out a presented review and I wish more people would put this much time and effort into analysing older games.
No one seems to mention that the voice behind "Nordom" is also the voice behind "Homer Simpson" (Dan Castellaneta)
I think he did a couple of voices in the game.
The way to view this game if worth your time is pretty simple :
If you are the one seeking a game which is rich in story, mind-blowing and make you sink in the tides of deep thoughts-
most because you think of the first time you were stricken by the story of the game you're playing
and you are long for one more, even superior- then here is my humble brief opinion:
"I won't promise it is the game of the best story, but I will promise it is the game will REbuild your own philosophy"
I never thought the limited amount of partymembers was a con
Right, they didn't even finish Vhailor supposedly.
Black Isle were the masters of voiceover and it carries over to Bethesda with fallout 4. Sheena Easton is the voice of Anna of the Shadows. They spent a lot to make the audio for Torment. It's the best rpg ever made. It broke the mold and made modern RPGs possible.
This is a RPG Codex approved review. Being serious, I really liked your analysis, I finished the game a few days ago and I had more and less the same thoughts. It sucked that in the end you were stuck with same fate for the nameless one, no matter if your last incarnation was good or evil. Nevertheless, the story, characters and setting was really unique and I don't think we will ever see something similar
One of my all-time favorite games!
I like to think of this game sometimes as a point and click text adventure with RPG elements.
What a fantastic in-depth video! Seriously, I despise the RUclips tactic of not watching other peoples videos, yet writing a comments on them like "Cool job man check out my channel bro". But after also making a sort of first impression video of this game, I was genuinely curious if there was a more deep analysis. And goddamn, hope you keep your videos coming, gonna be exciting to see this channel skyrocket at some point!
Wait...what? You played Torment in 30 hours? Well that is curious indeed, I would swear it took me around 75 hours. 30 hours is barely half of the game...and why are we all of a sudden talking about Baldur's Gate, namely how you like it better then Planescape? Believe you me, planewalkers rarely want to hear about Toril.
It almost seems like it depends on your reading speed and how you play it (for example I reload all of the time) but 30 seems really short. I think my shortest was probably 40 or so, and that was without reading a lot of the stuff I didn't feel like reading (Sensate stones, NPCs I'm bored with)
I finished it in 20... starting to wonder how much i missed
Wait...what? it took me 250 solid hours to finish the first round. this game keeps me thinking, exploring and thinking, *everything*.
Am I slow mind?
IRIs Wu many people look up guides
max out int, wisdom and charisma, make str and con (and dex, to the lesser extent) dump stats, turn yourself into a mage for those sweet sweet amazing spell animations and you have lots of content to explore, 50 hours min. imo. Also IIRC there are some ways to permamently increase int/wis/cha via quests and dialogue, which are locked behind you guess it, int/wis/cha stat requirements. My nameless one had 25 int, 25 wis, 24 cha by the end of the game
Just came across your channel and I've been sucked into this series, for me Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate (both are one and the same for me) are my favourite pieces of entertainment ever, When it comes down to compare both side by side it's a tough one, they're similar enough to trick you into thinking they're comparable, but for me they are extremely different, Baldur's Gate is a game, It feels like a game, combat oriented, learn the mechanics, understand interactions, try and error polish and optimize the use of gear and spells, the experience is solving a puzzle with fewer and fewer moves, It's a game that rewards studyng and learning.
Torment for me is something that looks like a game, has the systems of a game but has the feel of something more alike a book, it's not about the mechaincs, although they're in place, it's not about the combat (that only serves a narrative purpose) You don't have to reload or savescum because you're making mistakes or being reckless or lazy or overconfident, you reload or try new playthoughs to see the possibilities of dialogue and outcome of quests and encounters, the scale is so much more intimate.
Baldur's gate feels like having the steer wheel of a grand epic, Torment feels for me like I'm reading a choose your own adventure philosophical diary of sorts, where you get to experience the world and know some people in it through the eyes of someone that is "you" but it isn't.
this video is great you deserve way more subscribers but at least you earned my subscription
No game has ever matched the level of immersion PS:T has for me. If you come in with the wrong mindset or looking for more combat, you may miss it, but if you get involved, this game is a hit.
The Mortuary is jarring at first. Your first interaction is with a floating skull, then you spend the bulk of your time interacting with Zombies and Skeletons. What you typically see as hostile enemies are NPCs. It's a complete tonal shift. Then the game really opens up when you meet Deionnara on the first floor. That's when a simple premise blows up in to this huge philosophical debate before you can fully comprehend how deep it is. You go from missing a journal and finding Pharod to being unable to die and reunite with a former companion. You're now in uncharted waters in video games.
You step outside and you are in a foreign world. We can't overlook how obscure the Planescape setting is, even for DnD. You're an amnesiac in the game and ignorant in real life. You don't know this world, you don't the rules that govern society, and you have no clear direction of where to go next.
So what do you do? You talk to everyone. You ask about your journal and Pharod. And in doing so, you find people that are struggling and need help. You solve quests hoping to get answers. You keep exploring and keep exploring until you land on the right path. Every named character has something to say. You can't overlook anyone. The game puts you on the path of exploration by playing off your ignorance of the setting.
I would say this is bad game design if the conversations weren't so good. Honestly, I stopped off with the Sensates and lost an hour listening (reading) to the lectures. I never bothered to read a single book in Baldur's gate, but I read and listened to everything in PS:T. It fleshed out the ending a lot and I had no clue. The dialogue is so well written you can get lost in the world because it is new. There isn't a lot of useless information in this game. It might seem like it, but it's really not.
I've often heard PS:T referred to as "the greatest book I've ever played" and that really holds up. You can't go in to it as just a game and hack n slash. You have to go in to it for the story. That's what makes this a masterpiece. I'll say it's got the best story of any RPG I've ever played and since I play for the story, it's the best RPG ever. As I said, I've never felt more connected to a character or immersed in a world as I did here. The RP of RPG was nailed 100%. The G part leaves a lot to be desired, but the RP is what makes RPGs what they are and an RPG without the RP and too much G is just a game.
Great video
It's a shame you have so few subscribers
Excellent review, thanks!
I think the Nameless One started the Blood War...
Really? Do they hint at that?
Thanks man I enjoyed this
"the path of contrivance" aka a long complicated quest. K.
If you had simply talked to the mage a few feet away from where Morte was taken then you would had gotten the info without having to talk to anyone else in any guilds. 🙄
11 minutes in and the two complaints are not enough companions and the story isn't spoon fed to you. I'll take quality over quantity any time.
Honestly from some one who had never played this game. it really bothered me how it worked. so many options that aren't necessary...
Also like no objective markers, well at least i haven't found any in my 4 hour gameplay so far.
The part that bothers me the most is finding locations that im supposed to go find. Like its supper difficult. if there was an objective marker on some locations it would be way better. Because this game is basically an interactive book. And you talk to alot of pointless people if you don't know were you are going.
Like literally even using some of the most simple items is difficult without a quick google search.
The skull died for me, and now every time i go to a new location or enter a building, the skull just appears dead next to my character. Like i literally don't know how to revive it. It died during the Beginning and it hasn't been able to be revived!
Very informative!!!!! 10 of ten response you have enlightended my soul and my life i was thinking of jumping off a bridge in fortnite but now am rethinking thank you so much !!!!!!! much love from Wisconsin.
@@Vale-jg1zm well I'm glad you didn't jump of your Minecraft House!
:D
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Im not trying to be rude, but sounds like you are not thinking, most tools are right in your toolbar, every named npc is valuable in some way, and every time you have to go somewhere you get directions.
My advice is to THINK, talk to every named npc, check every place, look at the map, revisit journal entries, READ. This game is all about reading and exploring, if you are looking for combat go somewhere else.