The "challenges" within mid 17th century Ulster was not as binary, Catholic versus Protestant, as this video suggests,. The division was primarily "Church of Ireland" (Church of England in Ireland) subjugating both Presbyterians and Roman Catholics. The introduction of Penal Laws hit both of the latter, although more so Catholics. Presbyterians could not hold "Office" . When I was growing up in the 1950s in both the Six Mile Valley and Islandmagee, there were great old timer storytellers and I was all ears. These stories were, as I became more historically aware, the unwritten history of East Antrim. In those days, the Presbyterian communities would not side with the "English". I can't recall "dissenters" taking up arms for the English subjugators - at least not until the late 1680s and even that for just a short while. The cooperation disintegrated in the early 1700s culminating with the Presbyterian formation of The United Irishmen , the 1798 Rebellion and the Battles of Antrim and Saintfield. As told to me, the Massacre of Islandmagee was a revenge action by Presbyterians against a group of Catholics among whom were the Magees with some resultant 20 to 30 deaths. Being a part of the 1641 rebellion has little foundation. The victims included, as told to me, one Presbyterian who gave support to his Catholic neighbours. There was no mention of this even being a joint Presbyterian/military action. Believe me, in those days there was no love lost between the English establishment and the Ulster Scots as they (we) became known. Many tales re-enforce this Irish/Ulster Scot cooperation - the protection given to Ness O'Haughan during his East Antrim exploits against the English, the English constabulary/soldiers being harassed in Presbyterian Ballynure, the Presbyterian refusal to join the English Yeomanry in East Antrim (reference the Parade Field in my own village, Ballyeaston related so well by Joe Graham in his Out and About online magazine). Our history is so filled with different versions that, in this case, mine or even someone else's version may be more correct.
That is an interesting post. I believe it to be truth as Irish history shows that all was not black and white. The Irish fought for the old English against Cromwell in Ireland and during the famine while some of the landlords refused to give aid to the starving peasants other landlords provided food and work to many for the famine duration. A local Landlord provided a safe haven for locals including a priest who was being hunted down for involvement in the 1798 Rebellion . He put his own life in danger by doing so and later provided financial help in the building of the Catholic Church. I would love to see a book written about all interactions like these and those in the North .
@@seanleech8214 Thank you and yes I too would love to see such a book. Others may then also start to find real Irish history and its earlier mythology seriously absorbing. Yes there were empathetic landlords and those not so. I think the sociopathic make up of the English landlord class in Ireland existed because many of them were soldiers, even quite lowly soldiers in some cases, awarded usurped lands as a service reward. So attitudes were not as benign and "paternal" as those in England where there was never any great episodes of the rent racking and punishment that was common place in Ireland. Mayo, a county I'm quite fond of, was one of the unfortunate counties which suffered most from both Cromwellian soldiers rewarded with seized lands and subsequent "vicious" landlords when the starving during the Great Hunger were treated despicably. The roads to nowhere demonstrated that victims become the problem to be dealt with, an Establishment attitude that persists in England to this day.
Saying that the Presbyterians were afraid of papal influence doesn't sit right with me. I would imagine most catholics weren't that devout, the communication took years to traverse from Rome to Ireland. I would also, suggest alot of it was propaganda by the English. I lived in Scotland, I mixed with protestants of all churches and the only way you'd get them in church would be in the new year (pissed) or if the church ran a bar, some were celtic supporters. Maybe, not a great allegory, what mean the video piece sounds very black and white.
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The "challenges" within mid 17th century Ulster was not as binary, Catholic versus Protestant, as this video suggests,. The division was primarily "Church of Ireland" (Church of England in Ireland) subjugating both Presbyterians and Roman Catholics. The introduction of Penal Laws hit both of the latter, although more so Catholics. Presbyterians could not hold "Office" . When I was growing up in the 1950s in both the Six Mile Valley and Islandmagee, there were great old timer storytellers and I was all ears. These stories were, as I became more historically aware, the unwritten history of East Antrim. In those days, the Presbyterian communities would not side with the "English". I can't recall "dissenters" taking up arms for the English subjugators - at least not until the late 1680s and even that for just a short while. The cooperation disintegrated in the early 1700s culminating with the Presbyterian formation of The United Irishmen , the 1798 Rebellion and the Battles of Antrim and Saintfield. As told to me, the Massacre of Islandmagee was a revenge action by Presbyterians against a group of Catholics among whom were the Magees with some resultant 20 to 30 deaths. Being a part of the 1641 rebellion has little foundation. The victims included, as told to me, one Presbyterian who gave support to his Catholic neighbours. There was no mention of this even being a joint Presbyterian/military action. Believe me, in those days there was no love lost between the English establishment and the Ulster Scots as they (we) became known. Many tales re-enforce this Irish/Ulster Scot cooperation - the protection given to Ness O'Haughan during his East Antrim exploits against the English, the English constabulary/soldiers being harassed in Presbyterian Ballynure, the Presbyterian refusal to join the English Yeomanry in East Antrim (reference the Parade Field in my own village, Ballyeaston related so well by Joe Graham in his Out and About online magazine). Our history is so filled with different versions that, in this case, mine or even someone else's version may be more correct.
That is an interesting post. I believe it to be truth as Irish history shows that all was not black and white. The Irish fought for the old English against Cromwell in Ireland and during the famine while some of the landlords refused to give aid to the starving peasants other landlords provided food and work to many for the famine duration. A local Landlord provided a safe haven for locals including a priest who was being hunted down for involvement in the 1798 Rebellion . He put his own life in danger by doing so and later provided financial help in the building of the Catholic Church. I would love to see a book written about all interactions like these and those in the North .
@@seanleech8214 Thank you and yes I too would love to see such a book. Others may then also start to find real Irish history and its earlier mythology seriously absorbing. Yes there were empathetic landlords and those not so. I think the sociopathic make up of the English landlord class in Ireland existed because many of them were soldiers, even quite lowly soldiers in some cases, awarded usurped lands as a service reward. So attitudes were not as benign and "paternal" as those in England where there was never any great episodes of the rent racking and punishment that was common place in Ireland. Mayo, a county I'm quite fond of, was one of the unfortunate counties which suffered most from both Cromwellian soldiers rewarded with seized lands and subsequent "vicious" landlords when the starving during the Great Hunger were treated despicably. The roads to nowhere demonstrated that victims become the problem to be dealt with, an Establishment attitude that persists in England to this day.
Saying that the Presbyterians were afraid of papal influence doesn't sit right with me.
I would imagine most catholics weren't that devout, the communication took years to traverse from Rome to Ireland.
I would also, suggest alot of it was propaganda by the English.
I lived in Scotland, I mixed with protestants of all churches and the only way you'd get them in church would be in the new year (pissed) or if the church ran a bar, some were celtic supporters.
Maybe, not a great allegory, what mean the video piece sounds very black and white.
Long overdue @@seanleech8214
Excellent comment. Thank you
Scullavogue Wekord Bridge 1798
My comments and any comments that are actually worthwhile never are shown. On RUclips. We know why
"Hi there, I totally understand how frustrating it can be when your comments don’t show up. At Emerald Chronicle, we have a free speech policy and believe in fostering open dialogue. We only remove comments that are obscene, vulgar, or involve personal attacks on others, including our subscribers. If your comments align with that, they should be visible! Sometimes, RUclips’s automated filters can mistakenly block certain comments, so it’s worth checking if any words or phrases are being flagged.
We appreciate all thoughtful contributions and encourage you to keep sharing your insights. Thanks for being part of the conversation!"
RUclips doesn’t allow open dialogue. We know why. Or who. Thanks for the video though.
The censorship is mostly computer generated and certain phrases trigger it.
For example you'll probably get censored if you mention the name of the most famous Austrian painter.
It's really annoying
Ireland 1641 Gaza 2025 🇮🇪🇿🇦🇵🇸✊🏾✊🏻 Amandla awethu Palestine, Tiocfadhi Ar La .
Yeah, Hamas and the entire Islamic Britherhood have a lot in common with Irish Catholics in 1641🤪
Thank you for sharing your perspective! It's important to recognize the connections between different struggles for justice throughout history.
@ Palestine Abu 🇮🇪🇿🇦🇵🇸✊🏻✊🏾
@ ✊🏻✊🏾🇵🇸🇮🇪🇿🇦👏🏻
@@jmms-e1p@jmmsp-e1p
OK Zio