Found a cheap IBM PCjr -- does it even work?
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- I was lucky to have found an untested IBM PCjr (PC Junior) locally here in Portland. It didn't come with a power supply, so I knew i couldn't even test it until I sorted that out.
Join me in trying it out for the first time.
Part 2: • IBM PCjr Part 2: Two s...
Part 3: • IBM PCjr Part 3: Fixin...
Part 4: • IBM PCjr Part 4: It's ...
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AkBKukU's channel:
/ @techtangents
Link to buy the PC Jr ATX Power Adapter:
akbkuku.com/st...
Pico ATX Supplies: (90w is plenty, the original PC Jr. had a 45w supply.)
www.mini-box.co...
That's awesome to see one of my adapters being able to help bring a PCjr back to life!
Thank you for allowing us into your computer porn. :3c I don't think i've seen a PCJr before, and i'm 31 years old. lol.
Did you print that circuit board yourself?
AkBKukU yay I knew you would comment:D
As soon as Adrian mentioned the power supply issue - I thought I wonder if he's seen your RUclips video on the replacement power supply adapter board you designed Shelby
I was about to refer you channel to Adrian, then I saw your comment lol
You're in luck! This is THE computer I had as a kid, so I may be able to offer a little assistance or answer a few questions if need be.
Firstly, yes, the connectors on the back are proprietary, I believe they are called "Berg" style connectors. The monitor is indeed a regular CGA monitor, and IBM actually sold a breakout cable that converted the Berg connector to a DE-9 for use with any other CGA monitor. Somewhere in my travels I picked up a PCjr monitor that had its Berg connector removed and a standard CGA DE-9 added. Stupidly, I gave it away.
The floppy "handle" is legit, that's exactly the style it used. "M" is definitely the modem port, if it were so equipped. I believe the modem that was available was a 1200bps modem (as was the one for the IBM PC Convertible). "LP" was definitely Light Pen. Never had one, I don't even know of any software that would even use one, although the onboard diagnostics (if I recall, invoked by Ctrl-Alt-Ins) has a test for it. "V" was composite video out, "A" was audio out (mono, line-level). As with any other CGA, both the DE-9 and the composite could be used simultaneously. "C" I think was for Cassette. There's an actual relay on the mainboard that's audible and can be invoked (I think just boot with no disk into Cassette BASIC and type LOAD). There was also an early piece of software called "Personal Musician" that messed with the cassette relay if you played a certain song. I think the song was called "Roller Coaster" and somewhere during it, the relay would click and it would "knock out" the speaker on the monitor and just play via the internal PC speaker. I guess that was normal behavior, otherwise there might have been "crosstalk" and you might have heard data loading from the Datasette. A reboot (at least) was required to reset, if not a full power cycle.
10:48 yeah, with the case off, the light hits the lens of the floppy drive's LED and it looks like it's on. I believe ERROR B means no keyboard. Probably nothing wrong with the system. You're going to have to either source a cable for the keyboard (yes, it plugs into the "K" connector in the back), but I'm sure a breakout cable can be made if one can't be found. It's only 4 wires! I don't know if the infrared receiver needs to be present for the system to complete POST without an error, if it does then I think you're S-O-L unless you find another system.
There are mods that can be done to the system as well. I know it will take an NEC V20 without a hitch. The system can be sped up to (close to) 8MHz, that required a different crystal and some soldering and a couple bodge wires. You can also install a switch to revert back to 4.77MHz, and I believe it's hot switchable. There is also a mod that can be made to have the PCjr support 3 floppy drives. I have no documentation on any of that anymore, my father did these upgrades when I was a kid. It's also possible to have 640K RAM, you'll need a memory sidecar, and need to upgrade the chips and add some bodge wires. That sidecar also requires a separate power supply (same as the PCjr originally took), and AkBKuKu didn't have that or a solution for it, at least not yet. 720K 3.5" drives work fine with the system I believe as a direct replacement (a 1.44MB with proper media may also work).
If I can be of any other assistance, please let me know! Good luck!
Wow! You know a lot.
Thank you, all of that information was actually just off the top of my head. I have a long history with early IBM Personal Computers.
@@jaykay18 I like them. Great line.
This was also my first computer. We had a second drive and capability expander called the Racor Expander which plugged into the sidecar port and gave the computer 512KB of RAM, a faster clock speed (with a toggle switch on the back), and 80 column mode (via the same toggle). I used an AT keyboard with it, via an AT to PCjr adapter that IBM sold.
Ahh yes, the Racore Expander! Another company that sold PCjr stuff was PC Enterprises! I remember seeing it years ago in a catalog. The PCjr did 80 column mode no problem, but by default always started in 40 column mode, the Racor unit added a hack for that as well. I've never heard of an AT keyboard being used on the PCjr though.
Scratches in monitors usually stem from office workers carrying them around, scratching them either with their belt clip or tie clip. So, that's why there are no marks in the plastic.
Also people wiping the screen clean and a ring scratches it, but just as often it comes when moving it around and placing into storage and "sqeezing it in" on a shelf or cupboard
Yeah "belt buckle rash", happens to guitars too. It's the first thing I thought.
Tape over the badge, could it have been a prop for a movie?
Since the first few seconds i knew that AkBKukU's board will make its appearance :-)
I'm to blame for suggesting the use of the PicoPSU when the first video went out in the development stages of the adapter. I'm guilty as charged for being the reason the board had to go through yet another revision to make room for that at the appropriate angle so it fit in the case... but it worked out surprisingly well! Glad to see it booted but sad you don't have the IR receiver. I wonder how hard it would be to make one if there are none available.
Wow! So nice that you found Shelby’s adapter, I was shouting at my screen “Get AkBKukU board!” Then you showed the package! I love when a “crossover” happens between RUclipsrs I’m subscribed to.
Well, that's a bummer that there was no connector and no power supply with it. The infrared board is missing and even a normal cable to connect the keyboard but you still proved it does work so thumbs up Adrian.
What I find interesting is that it's hard to find a simple pinout of the keyboard connector, so you can't easily make your own replacement cable. But, on the IR receiver front, there is currently a seller on ebay with 2 for sale for $27 total for each one. It might be worth it going that route just to get your machine complete.
It's probably the same guy who sold him this
Adrian, I have two PCjr IR boards that i can send to you. I scrapped mine over 20 years ago but for some reason I held onto these boards. Can I have an address to which I can ship them? I would love to see you get your PCjr working.
Like, so Adrian can see it
What a nice guy.
It would be nice if someone reversed engineered it so someone could make reproductions
@@adriansdigitalbasement ISTR PC Enterprises had some upgrade that connected to the IR port.
I remember when this came out, it was lampooned in the Bloom County comic strip as the "Bannana PC JR" with feet.....
@wargent99 Bloom County is back on Facebook, and the Banana Jr. has made several appearances.
Hoping to sooner or later find one of these bad boys locally at a good price. I love the charm they have, and my favorite aspect is all the quirks of it...And the whole being the first thing King's Quest launched on is epic to me.
In 1994 I was given 30 PCjr’s that were about to be tossed from a school typing lab... lots had bent pins and broken dividers in those stupid connectors at the back (just 0.1” pitch pin headers). Gave away tons to friends after making custom serial cables so they could connect modems and dial in to their ISP to read email... Unfortunately it couldn’t surf the net as there were no browsers that would run on such little RAM (mine only had 128K RAM - no side-car expander). Fun times!
I kept 1 PCjr for nostalgia - still have it!
Error B is an indication of keyboard problems
We had some of these and some Tandy PC clones in our computer class in '87. Pretty old tech for then, but it was a huge step up from my Atari 400. Always wanted one for my own.
Those proprietary connectors on the back are just 0.1” pitch pin-headers. You can easily make your own cables to plug into it by getting female pin headers, but be mindful of the orientation. IBM had a continuous pin header with little breaks where they put dividers between the ports - these dividers were very fragile and would break, falling out!
Awesome, Adrian. I had a chance to pick up a PCjr a couple of years ago at Portland RGE, but I ended up dropping money on other things. Wish I scored the PCjr, too! So awesome to see that you have one, and I would love to see some follow-up videos of yours. I feel like you need to get some original King's Quest going on it.
So glad to see two channels I like working together!
Brings back memories of my IBM PCjr. I still remember playing King's Quest, KQ2, Adventures in Math, Shamus and a few others. Good times!
Nice ant @ 7:42
You beat me to it :D
That one must've shipped with that C64...
@@adriansdigitalbasement What! yes there are! with the dry fall and recent good weather those little bastards came back at my place in salem.
Is he ok? :D
7:41
:O Look above his hand there - There's an ant survivor from the anthill C64!
David can fabricate a new badge for the keyboard
Awesome find there.. If you want to get rid of the original power supply board I would be interested. The Jr came with 2 different ones, the short version puts out 33 watts, while the long version puts out 45 watts. The board you have in there is the long version is a bit harder to find.
I believe I saw a video from The 8-bit guy, where he had gotten a new adaptor that goes into the proprietary holes on the back. So you can use modern(ish) keyboards and what have you. The stuff I was thinking off, was made by texelec , and they are called IBM PCjr Joystick and Keyboard Breakout Board and the IBM PCjr CGA and Serial Breakout Board. Great video by the way.
At 2:49 that white paper badge has the CSA logo ( Canada Standasrds Association ) so the keyboard can be properly sold in Canada. I owned a PCjr with that KB ( it also came with the chiclet KB ) and the expansion add-on so voice and extra memory ( 256 KB total) and parallel printer add-ons ( came with all 3 ) could be attached. So many boxes, taking up space... in 1989 when I graduated to a 386SX all those boxes and their contents became landfill. It hurts now, and I'm sorry I did it. BTW, the internal modem is 300 baud
PCjr is the first computer I had as a kid, sadly I didn't keep mine, but its a great find for the price
I have that same helping hand, I had an issue with stability so I got glued it to one of those small square flooring samples from Home Depot
I think this computer must have been used in like non-IBM advertising or something. Like a magazine add for some software or other. That would explain why all the badging was either removed or covered with like tape of various colors. It may have even been in some TV show or something with the labels covered so the production company wouldn't even have to deal with IBM getting in their face.
Would love to see you restore this great old machine! Cool stuff.
My ex-wife got her son one of those while working for IBM and he used it and the printer to make money doing work for other students who didn't have a computer. He went to a private school until he went to a Catholic College in Iowa. I gave him a Tandy 1000 later on and he used it also to do work since it ran IBM compatible Basic.
AKBKUKU YASSSSSSSS, I WAS ALL THE VIDEO WAITING FOR YOU TO HAVE HIS POWER BOARD KIT :DD
You give em character, which is good, cause you need character.
Would love to see an update on this when you get it working. Nice find!
One place you find logos covered in tape like that is in TV/film when the studio doesn't have an advertising agreement with the company in question. Any chance it was used as a prop at some point?
My high school had a lab of Jrs (IBM was donating unsold stock). They were outfitted with an expansion that replaced the lid, adding a 2nd floppy right above the first, joined at the side by an extra tall sidecar. Effectively turned it into a 640k PC.
I've never seen that type of expansion, since. It matched the original exactly, so it really looked like an extra tall Jr with dual floppies.
That's damn cool! Cheers! I'm looking forward to see how this project develops :)
LOVE the bonus sticker. That was a pleasant surprise
adrian - re your creative pcjr keyboard cable. remember that solvent you used to 'weld' old c64 case ? a coupla dabs of that might turn the 4 individual black plastic connectors into one monolithic connector, taking care not to get solvent into socket contact areas. take care n stay safe.
The connector on the side behind the panel is for memory expansion modules and/or a printer module. They're big plastic things that plug right into each other and the CPU case on that side. Also, the infrared was notoriously crap, so recommend a keyboard cable.
I like the look of your basement shown in that final shot. Do you maybe have a tour of your basement video on the channel? :)
The tape is probably for shipping. On computer hardware today you get that plastic film that you peel off before installing. I'm assuming back then they just used tape to protect these things.
The PCjr's bus connector for the sidecar is identical to the 8-bit ISA bus, you could even create a breakout and run it to a card edge connector to use any ISA card.*
* It's missing the -5V rail. This means certain sound cards will straight-up not function correctly due to the op-amps not having the correct voltages for the comparator lines. If you were to build a breakout circuit to make an ISA bus sidecar of your own--which would be an AWESOME project that I want to try one day!--you should also integrate a voltage polarity "inverter" (not the correct word for it, but you get my meaning) using a chip like the TPS54620.
However, if you choose to do this, remember that part of the PCjr's charm is how crappy of a computer it is compared to the real-deal PC. :)
The PCjr has no DMA (there are expansions that add DMA) and most of the IRQ lines are not present on the side port. There was a PCB made for adding a pair of 8 bit ISA slots but they were backwards so the ports on cards faced the front. It also had a molex connector for power. I put one together to try using a MFM hard drive controller. Managed somehow to damage the jr's power supply. No problem, it was my 2nd jr, not my main one with 512K and 2nd floppy in a 'second story' expansion.
Damn I was just about to say hit up akbkuku for his PSU adaptor! 😆 Now hopefully you can make an adaptor to hardwire the keyboard!
That's a great little adapter ... gets all of the high voltage stuff out of the case and well away from the PC.
I believe it was 8-Bit that featured a card that plugged into the existing connectors in the rear and adapted them to more standard connectors.
The backwards floppy latch was standard issue for IBM's half height 5.25 drive for a bit, the Qume Qumetrak 142
@@adriansdigitalbasement I have an IBM with one of those drives and I always mix up what way I'm supposed to turn them with regular drives and the reversed ones when I'm doing stuff with disks between other computers. It's kind of like USBs, lol
I also have the side car with the second level on the PC Junior really cool stuff did really well by me are used to run the main frames underwriters laboratories with the system
There is a yet another proprietary cable for the keyboard. The keyboard end has the phone jack style connector. The other end is one of the proprietary plugs as seen on the joysticks (and, yes, it plugs into the 'K' port). The cable was an accessory one could buy from IBM. It didn't come with the keyboard.
You should be able to find either the IR daughterboard (more likely) or the KB cable on eBay (less common).
There is a company called Texelec or something like that that makes adapters for all those proprietary connectors. I'm sure they make other products for the PCjr too.
On the label you showed, there was the nominal input voltage , current and also power form the old PSU. ;-)
Awesome video!I want one today!
You may be able to cosmetically 'fix' the CRT glass scratching by applying a bit of Turtle Wax and gently smoothing off the excess...
The refractive index matches glass pretty closely (thanks to Gerald Ellis for the tip).
Jeez that is one massive capacitor on that power supply
Amazing find for $60.
00:45 : Adrian : I just wanna find an IBM sticker...
Ross: I don't want to be single, okay? I just... I just- I just wanna be married again!
(Rachel enters in a wet wedding dress and starts to search the room.)
Chandler: And I just want a million dollars! (He extends his hand hopefully.)
Friends S01E01 - 1994
:)
I know I saw a video where the guy hand made a cable for that computer. Sorry I can't remember it right now. I do remember that the rj-14 was used, but the cables where connected differently as would be on a phone.
Ha! I just picked up a full PCjr this past weekend for $80! Very nice! :)
@@adriansdigitalbasement Thankfully, it included the power brick and IR receiver! My unit also says "Error B" when the BASIC cart isn't inserted. I haven't gotten around to making a DOS boot disk. I didn't have any 5.25" disks until yesterday.
Speaking of the power supply - even though the stock PSU expects 18 AC, it should work with DC as well, since the power goes through a full bridge rectifier and a capacitor. Theoretically you could have used a laptop PSU to power the stock power module
@@adriansdigitalbasement Ah. Well, 24V supplies are pretty common too. Many printers and scanners, for example, use 24 volts. I've salvaged quite a few 24 volt supplies from old printers and copiers.
Error B should be for no keyboard connected... good luck with your quest!
You can use your smartphone's camera to check if the keyboard is transmitting. The camera makes the IR light visible as a faint purple glow.
Guess people didn't know they were supposed to remove protective film in the 80s either...
I have a feeling this was used in film/advertising at some point
So do I, first thing I thought was that it was a movie prop.
Love your videos, a trip down memory lane :)
I remember to see somewhere (don't remember where) some adapters to converto PCjr ports to regular PC ports
I love how many of my favourite channels cross pollinate.
Wow! Those are still around.
Not talking brand new of course
0:58 I was just gonna help you find a new label but would you look at that!
I bet it was used in some sort of film where they needed to cover up the badge or something.
That’s pretty lucky!
Your phone cable is just that... a phone cable. You're missing the PCjr keyboard. On side will have the rj11, and the other side will have a 6 or 8 pin connector very much like your display. I forget how many pins (wanna say 6), but it plugs in under the letter K at the back.
How could I give you a thumbs down Adrian?? You're making the best retro videos on youtube at the moment! Note on the telephone keyboard cable..don't plug it in. Macintosh Plus has a similar keyboard cable which is completely incompatible with standard telephone cables. You can destroy the motherboard using the wrong cable. I imagine for this PC jr its the same deal.
The infrared module was classified so they took it out before they sold it/got rid of it.
Amazing! good luck ! gained a subscriber!
Is it time for me to dig my PCjr out of the attic?
As for your keyboard issue, I remember that the cable had the RJ11 on one side, and the proprietary (Berg?) connector on the other. But there was also a buldge in the cable where there were presumably there were some small ICs or electrical components. I never dissected the cable as it worked, and I didn't have a need to try to attach a 3rd party keyboard.
There is an adapter board you can purchase that converts the proprietary ports on the junior to common ports for normal connectors. That would allow you to use an ATX keyboard. It's possible that error b is in regards to not finding a keyboard. You can find those breakout boards here- Interestingly enough, there is an RJ-11 port on the keyboard breakout board. - texelec.com/product-category/ibmpcjr/
The pinout for the keyboard cable is on page 3-88 of this service manual: classiccomputers.info/down/IBM/IBM_PCjr/IBM_4862_PCjr_Technical_Reference_Nov83.pdf
I think that tape was there because it was used probably in an movie, TV show or something like that.
Monitor could have been sold as generic unbadged. It was new stock that was never purchased by IBM, thus they couldn't legally be sold with the logo.
Hi there....I wish to comment on the IBM Pc jr
IBM PC jr was the very 1st computer I owned...Got it Christmas 1984
it was powerful:
The "keyboard" cord, one end of the cord look like the telephone cord, and the other end look
like the "connection to the monitor"
That was the Keyboard I had..and it did "eat UP" 4 double A batteries
It was "CGA" screen...some programs 'displayed" in differnet colors, if the same program was ran on "another IBM" computer
I did find the "draw" backs when I went to BUY games...I was told "I never Heard of the IBM PCjr" "I dont know if it will work
on the IBM PC jr...but I know it will run on the IBM PC
fast forward to about 1988, I read a newspaper Artical telling me "Avoid any programs that Require EGA graphics" "avoid Programs
that require Windows" "Stick with programs that will run on "CGA/Monochrome" and no more than 128KB of MEMORY
Heh, how often do we use the word "badge" anyway? Ohhh, now I understand what that angled connector accomplishes with that particular PSU.
TexElec has "breakout" adapters to convert the keyboard, joystick, cga and serial ports to standard connectors.
Additionally: wouldn't it be possible to find another adapter to put the required voltage on the original power supply? Sure, this works, but I'd prefer keeping a computer like that as original as possible (although, if you'd combine the kit with a pico ATX and mount the brackets it would at least look good).
The labels can be made using the method the 8-bit guy demonstrated in his video about the computer
Error B is telling you the system cannot find the keyboard. With the IR receiver missing, you have to find the proprietary keyboard cord to get past that error.
ERROR B means either the keyboard is not connected, not detected (in that case), or you pressed a key during the POST.
the screen shows very clear picture.
Those monitors were horrible. The CRT in the IBM 5153 had a much finer mask. PC Enterprises sold a "Thin Font" chip to add or enable a character set that had narrower lines. The chunky mask on the stock jr monitor would still blur and bloom the characters. Adapt a 5153 to the jr and its video will look much better.
I FORgot to add, "there" is a way to run the IBM pc jr programs today on "WINDOWS TEN, sixty four" simply download the JRC files---and then boot the JRC files
I think its been used in a movie or show. That may explain why they hiding IBM trademark ?
I believe the correct pronunciation for AkBKuKu is "Ayy-Kay-Bee Cuckoo"
Ak-Ba-Coo-Coo
@@HuntersMoon78 Regardless of how Shelby's RUclips handle is pronounced, he definitely has those adapter cards that allow you to hook up a pico PSU or a regular ATX PSU to the PC Jr..
Are you going to buy one of those small psu's in the future? Having a full size atx psu hanging out of the pc like that at all times seems like a bad idea
Nice find. Too bad the IR board, and keyboard cable are missing, but I'm sure the IR at least should not be too hard to repair, but they never did work that great over IR to start with.
@@adriansdigitalbasement Yes LGR did a video on the IBM PC Jr. a few years back and even ran into it with CFL bulbs he was using at the time
@@adriansdigitalbasement I forgot to add the video I talked about earlier of LGR's IBM PCjr. freaking out since I was on my phone earlier.
ruclips.net/video/OjmqTBILs6g/видео.html
That is one gigantic power board
Hold on hold on... A wireless keyboard in the early 80s?? That is pretty cool.
that original psu board would very likely work as-is off a fairly 'standard' 19v ish DC out laptop psu/charger ...
Another thought: How did this flimsy case pass FCC approval?
+Adrian Black
Ah ok, I couldn't see the metallic coating very well in the video; Perhaps you're right about the requirements being a bit more lax in the past as well.
BTW did you see my other comment? The one where I linked to a page about the PCjr.
Plus these PC's were not running in the hundreds of megahertz but rather single digit MHz, so maybe a lot less interference to begin with, easier to mitigate.
i don't know why but i love how you pronouce "slot" as "schlot"
If I recall the power supply is in the monitor.
the crimp connectors on pigtails cost like 50 cents to a buck on digikey...
The tape could’ve been to block branding off in a TV thing or whatever
I think there is a ps/2 to pcjr adapter you could use for the keyboard.
@7:41 - An ant has introduced itself to us. :) Probably fell off from the box that has been lying on the lawn or doorstep for too long. ;) Or is it a pet ant? :)
@7:50 - Watch out, don't smash that friendly pet ant! :-O
@7:51 - A cut in the video. I hope you didn't smash the ant. :)
Don't know if this has been posted yet in the comments, but TexElec makes little breakout boards that plug into the proprietary slots on the jr. and turns them into more commonly used ones: texelec.com/product-category/ibmpcjr/
1:36 is that an SN ProPad? I have two of those myself but the X and Y don't seem to work properly on both, neither does one of the shoulder buttons
Oh you know I don't know. I bought that at the Portland Retro Gaming Expo for $1 -- I was intending to modify it work on Amiga/C64/Atari machines. I take it this controller was made for the Genesis/Megadrive originally?
@@adriansdigitalbasement Mine are for the SNES, I think yours must be too given the 4 circle buttons. I think my issues are to do with those turbo switches in the middle but I never bothered fixing them.
I bought one of those from albakuku and it works great