Street Fighter 6 is random?
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- The Esports World Cup (EWC) for Street Fighter 6 continues on with day 2 of the first phase of groups, with 32 of the best players on the planet competing for a $1 million dollar prize pool. After day 1 where favorites, EVO champion Punk and MenaRD were eliminated, players like Tokido, Bigbird, Leshar, Bonchan, and others fight to make it to round 2. The community debates: Is Street Fighter 6 random?
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"it's random when i lose, it's skill when i win" - some dude in the hub
That guy is real asf
Didn't know Punk spent time in the Hub 🤣
@@chm2Mena said that, not Punk. H started that narrative
No, it's random when I win too.
Unlike the game, I have to be consistent.
DSP lol
Not a single name on that list is out of place. I recognize every single name that has been at the top of tournament brackets for years. Not a single under dog or random name.
Random? Not at all. Volatile, yes, especially when it comes down to corner pressure and burnout sequences.
Fundamentals are still fundamentals even in an environment with random outcomes. Even if everything in the game was purely random they would still filter to the top because they are the most adaptable players to any environment.
Capcom cup was won by the same name you've known well for years?
@@categorialimperative4182UMA/Kagami is well known among asian fg circle
@@striferser3318 What does it mean that he won the capcom cup? That he is a very capable and talented player? Should we wait for his new successes in this case, eh? If so, where did he go by the way?
It would be a shame for such a player to limit himself to just that, because in that case, this capcom cup win would probably be considered a bit...random
@@categorialimperative4182man retire in vtuber heaven, and he qualified for Capcom cup by beating Chris Wong.
James Chen know him for quite time since UMA/Kagami participate in ICFC weekly.
I'm pretty sure another talented players will emerge. We already got new blood players like NoahTheProdigy, Ryukichi, and Hikaru who qualified for EWC
It's the same players who qualify for all these high end tournaments. Truly random
still. among those same guys its a carousel like never before.
@@last7509would love to see your data on that
@@last7509 Randomness quantified via brackets
@@last7509 Most of these tournaments are running First To 3 matches, which seems like a poor choice for a game as volatile as SF6. I know it's ultimately a logistics problem for these tournaments organizers, but FT3 is just not a good fit for this game.
@@caspertrog1046what would be a better format logistics aside obviously? First to 5? Or round robin
I would say "chaotic" instead. It's a game where a single mistake can spiral out of control unless you really got that clutch factor. And the game has so much happening at the same time that it's not easy thing to do, even for pro players who notoriously have it.
Thats what i hate the most i can be locked into the match all of a sudden i miss a input of a di or mess up a anti air knowing damn well i shouldve got it and start spiraling down hill quick
@@phaze12490you just fn suck at the game. Sounds like a you problem.
so in other words, random
@@last7509 Mistakes are now random? Last I checked we called that "skill issue".
@@Raxyz_0 in every fighting game there is a skill gap in sf6 they purposely took that out this is why modern is a thing this is the first sf you have to respect the other opponents decisions or be able to tell the future this game is hella fun also bullshet at the same time
High level players losing to high level players. Nothing random about that
Yeh it's ridiculous to expect the same 2 names to win everything. This is not Tennis.
The question about randomness in this case has nothing to do with the sample pool taken in consideration; they called 50/50 and guess interactions for a reason. Beeing high level or beeing scrub you still have to guess and this game is infested with them, way more than previous versions anyway.
@@yanmav340 Every fighting game in history has guesses, what do you think a mixup is?
there is no best player in sf6
Yup and i think it might put the light on the roster being "pretty balanced" in general
People saying the game is just random in these comments are the same type of people to say card shufflers on computers don’t work right. As multiple people have said, if the game was only random, there would not be consistent finishes. This isn’t an open tournament where it’s amazing that some rando knocked someone out.
To kind of follow up on this, Punk, in his post elimination interview, said he played stiff and bad, he didn’t say “the game is random”
@@buck2817not to mention punk had to fly overseas and could be burnt out from Evo. He’s not a machine and probably would’ve done better if he took a break after Evo.
Of course, because any random player who knocked out Punk or Menard, you'd call super talented, rather than random, just suddenly appeared out of nowhere prodigy, and then most likely also suddenly disappeared.
@@categorialimperative4182 All the names in are people who has been around and done good. Its not 2007 the difference between the the number one player and 30th is way smaller due to people having far better access to the same tools and resources.
A 16yo did that to punk a little while ago, he wasnt called random from what i saw everyone was like damn this kids ryu is clean @@categorialimperative4182
Quit his job to get hit by a frame perfect super clash situation and then lose to DI mash, that's tough
Well, Tachikawa pulled off a cool Ed combo for the win.
Nephew: "So uh, Google...about that resignation..."
yeah bro. don't quit your day job
😂😂😂😂
He really chose the street life over Google.
@@last7509Yeah he def made that decision without being secure
@@GinkgoPetewhat? He's sponsored and consistently places top 8. Way worse players do this full time 😂
I think the whole situation is a lot like dice rolls in tabletop RPGs: The skill difference can skew the roll chances but the fewer rolls needed to "kill", the more "swingy" the game gets because the percentages matter more the more rolls there are (it's way harder for a 40% to have won over a 60% across 100 rolls vs. 5). With damage and corner carry through the roof compared to other SFs, 6 requires the fewest "rolls" and so, it's undeniably swingier than the rest. It's still harder to win the less skilled you are but at similar skill levels, tangential factors and pure luck will matter more than they did in previous games.
I love when you break down specific interactions. It's something that commentators live are not able to do and low to intermediate players can't break down themselves. Thank you.
Thanks for mentioning the sportswashing Brian. I know it's risky as a player/influencer but it's a conversation the community needs to be having.
This is the most hilarious clickbait title, you bait them in with the "RaNdOm?" title them you hit them with the 30 minutes of quality match analysis. Gottem
Ed is so sick in this game man 🔥 Leshars awareness and reactions to close out the round vs tokido was insane 🔥
I know people sometimes don't like comparisons to irl sports but watching the Olympics while this debate is going on kind of puts it into perspective. A lot of sports or competitive games follow this kind of structure and they form great players who are able to control and adapt to the chaos of their respective sports.
Making things streamlined so it's easier for these pros to autopilot shouldn't be the response, that was one of the problems with SF5 imo.
Also that happens over time no matter what. Eventually you know when the opponent is going to DI because you've seen it a million times before, you're not even consciously adjusting your mental stack, you just know. You know when to spend DRC, when the combo will kill, it's no longer volatile at that point.
Yea, lets make a volatile game where like any 1600+mr player has at least 15% chance of beating a pro player in ft3 set just because its incredibly hard to read bad and random players in this game and they just throw all that shit until it eventually works in their favour, you cant tell me its healthy when a game forces you to use 100% of your brainpower to beat a mofo that is a 10 times worse player than you
@@vasilykiselev6285 I don't see any random 1600+ MR player in this tournament. These guys are all top competitors. Any random guy doesn't have a hope in hell of beating any of them otherwise there'd be more unknown names in the tourny line ups.
@@aledantih6524 brother pro players lose to 1600 players in ranked all the time
@@vasilykiselev6285 sure so why are none of those random players qualifying for top 8s at any major tournaments? If they can beat these guys no problem where are they at?
You're telling me just because pro players aren't getting win streaks in the 100s in a casual, ranked setting the game is too volitile and inconsistent? That's some great mental gymnastics.
I agree with most comments, there's obvious consistency shown just in who qualified here. The top 8 of Evo was like 50% the same a year later. Consistent doesn't mean a single person always wins, altho I would expect streaks, it means you can roughly predict who would come out of any given batch if players. The better those players are the less consistent the precise outcomes will be. That's not even considering off days, traveling, etc which logically are going to effect very fast games like fighting games even more than other games.
This even applies to that tweet from Tokido that started a lot of this discourse. Sure, Tokido says that "nothing changed" between the two different sets, but maybe the other person just had more sleep when they beat him 5-0 and was tired after work when they lost 0-5.
I'm a Platinum player so I'm obviously not good at the game but with my limited understanding, what baffles me is how there are rounds between two top players where one player will get Perfect KO one round then get Perfect KO'd themselves the next round. How is that possible? I would imagine that every round between top players would be extremely close, and often it is, but very often it's a complete one-sided slam dunk.
THAT'S just because of two things: The nature of chip in this game, and the fact that a single stray hit with resources is consistently able to net a MINIMUM of 25% to a max of 60-70% It's a two to five situation game, at most, when you and your opponent are not dropping conversions every ten seconds.
OMG THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD ARE LOSING TO EACH OTHER…. So random!
If it was random, these players wouldn't be the same ones who keep making the top spot at tournaments all over. Making it here, I think everyone has an equal chance of losing or winning, they're all top players after all.
I think the randomness thing is about which super wins. In this scenario, juri performs her super exactly 1 frame after Ed. They should both end their invincibility on the same frame, but Ed won. I haven't labbed it but it may be random
That's not the discussion they're having here
@@dingo_duck It's not random + that's not the "randomness" that people are talking about
Oh look...when its not Punk or MenaRD win, people calling Street Fighter 6 Random
When Punk n MenaRD win = GOAT!!!! USA USA USA USA!!!!
Yeah it’s honestly one of the most annoying thing cause they weren’t saying that at evo when punk won
When did MenaRD become American? 😂
Being excited when your team wins and being capable of recognizing flaws in the game which contribute negatively to its competitiveness are not mutually exclusive stances.
I know you might have a difficult time having more than one thought at a time but just because thats your experience doesn't mean it can be projected outwards onto everyone else.
@@Vanity0666 Dont see any of you recognizing the flaws when your team wins
@@Vanity0666 Yeah but using "your team lost" as a data point for the game being bad is just moronic.
These tournament recap videos are some of the best pieces of fighting game journalism media on the internet, thank you Brian
The competitive scene in this game is not random but it is explosive. It makes for a way more entertaining eSport and it definitely shows with these upsets. But as you said, all of these players are top level players that could crush 99 pct of anyone else in the planet
This game is very volatile, which is quite different from being random. The problem lies with tournament organizers that keep insisting on FT3 matches. It's just not a good format for this game. Do FT7 and you'll see much more consistent results.
That's a lot of tabs 0:30
The internet equivalent of keeping stuff in your garage/attic. Just incase.
@@Churshnah it's just Brian using his internet browser as a slideshow instead of PowerPoint or smth
I also wanted to comment
the same crap people said I remember in one season of SFV and I never understand it there neither now, these players all are THE BEST OF THE BEST, to me there is no upset, other than our favorites didn't want this enough, I as pulling for both MenaRD our country CHAMP and Punk, but sorry, they loss to great players, there was no shame in losing to Gachikun, NL, Zhen, Dual Kevin, Moke and Ryukichi, all these player can beat ANYONE any day, you have to come extra ready and sadly, Mena, Punk and Big Bird just wasn't this time.
The game is more volatile, though. It's harder to be consistent. But you're right. There's more high-level players now. The era where we had a Daigo winning back-to-back tournaments is over.
People said this about sf4 and 3s also. They’ll call the game random then play it for 16 hours a day. lol The people calling the game random cannot handle that they just aren’t that good and never will be.
I will say that MenaRD and Punk have been losing games here and there, this wasnt a complete shakeup, but it was a shakeup nonetheless.
For me the Xiaohai match vs Hikaru was the highlight, it showed that Hikaru did have a serious shot for the title.
I think there's 2 factors that make SF6 more "volatile" than previous entries.
1. The system mechanics in SF6 make it so there's very few moments in this game where you can auto pilot. This means you have to maintain your focus for longer periods of time and even small moments of slipping up can cost you greatly.
2. The pool of top tier competitors in SF6 is in my opinion bigger than any previous SF title. So rather than having the same 30-50 players compete for the top spots you now have maybe 75-100 not to mention the growth of the FGC as well as the increase in available information has raised the skill floor of the average tournament competitor which means that even unknown players can be scary and i think this compounds with factor number 1.
Games hella auto pilot with everyone having a footsies skip and forced offensive situations
@@Darkness2MaxrockoOh you can definitely autopilot, you’d be surprised by how the most simple stuff work on almost everyone of any skill. Your opponent can have a simple weakness like always falling for neutral jumps and throws despite being 1700+MR. It’s easier for me to turn my brain off and beat people than sweat and lock in beating someone on SF6 compared to older titles.
Random no , but throw loop is definitely not that healthy to the competitive scene . It's purely guessing game at that moment and zero skills related which could easily swing from winning hard to losing
Giant spider on your wall at the start of the video lol.
eep!
Sf6 isn't random but rounds are often decided within the first 10-15 seconds due to the strongest characters in game having a two-touch kill hit confirm from crouching medium kick and the corners being so boxed in
So glad Leshar picked up Ed. Guy is incredible to watch on highly technical/high execution characters like his Chun from season 1. Was super bummed when he started out the season playing Luke.
Very interesting and informative video! Thank you for your attention to detail Sajam!
A lot of these matches have the player also go to the last round of the last game. It's really amazing, and I have not seen a single moment that I felt like any joe schmoe could do.
Smh people will always complain about something they don't even understand
We can all have our opinion if the game is random or not. But i think the drive system needs huge fixes to make it more fun. Drive rush is corny af
THIS!!!!!! It's way too abusable!!
"Random game" yet it's the same group of top players making top 8 and winning stuff all the time lol
I'm not following EWC since I'm playing 2xko and doing other stuff, but I just wanted to say thank you and this recap was so good! from every highlight to comment, to breakdown to insight too! thank you for sharing your knowledge and overview on all this; also the closing remarks on the topic were nice too; being new to sf I didn't know some of this players prior to sf6 even tho they've been strong in 6 so is good to know; thank you again for this Brine
People complaining about it being random in a ft3 format, meanwhile us plebs suffering in ft2 tournaments. We need ft3 the whole way in this game frfr
I would also argue that winning $1 Million will bring out something different in players vs $12k. The money always changes things up.
Winning EVO qualifies you for the Capcom Cup. The first prize is 1 million. Money's still involved at EVO.
There are so many good players today that it feels weird complaining about consistency. only one person can win every tournament and with this level of competition of course it's not going to be the same person every time.
For anyone saying sf6 is random go play tokido in a ft10 and then play him again tomorrow and let me know if you win please
I think what people don't realize here is that SF6 not being too random, is actually a very low skill ceiling game COMPARED to previous SF series. Here are some facts and comparison with SF4.
- SF6 has easy combo execution, no one can dispute that, period. Any one who plays SF4 knows the skill ceiling for execution is extremely high.
- SF6 has 3 or 4 more jumping frames than SF4, meaning you have additional time to react to jumps and anti air them.
- SF6 has auto hit confirms and neutral skips with drive rushes. If skipping neutral with drive rush isn't a menace already, you can actually skip hit confirms with drive rush cancels. On top of that, you get +4 on a drive rush that puts you in a plus situation so after skipping neutral and hit confirms, you are plus enough to continue pressure.
- SF6 makes reaction and whiff punish harder to do. Most people don't realize that in SF4, despite the total frames of a button being the same, the average startup for a crouching medium for example was actually 5 frames, compared to the average of 8 frames for SF6. That means that while the total frames is the same, the startup in SF6 is slower and the recovery is faster. Capcom purposefully made it so that top players cannot whiff punish as easily thus lowering the skill ceiling between lower and higher rank players. This also facilitate the game play for sticking out a 2mk and buffering drive rush cancel to skip hit confirm. You see this very often even in tournaments that pros actually whiffing buttons and buffering in neutral all the time, because the its so hard to whiff punish even if you are looking for it. Punk is actually godlike for playing whiff punishing despite it so much harder to do in SF6.
- SF6 has freaking throw loops, this is just pure randomness. There's no need for explanation unless you don't understand fighting game basics.
- SF6 has the drive mechanics. Don't get me wrong, this is one of the best design of the SF series making the game extremely balanced. With drive impact and drive parry, there is nothing in this game that cannot be countered. Moves that are oppressive and has long recovery, you drive impact, moves that are oppressive and has short recovery you drive parry. SF4 is while being high skill ceiling, is actually very unbalanced because of moves that are oppressive and hard to counter. SF6 is balanced because all characters have the core mechanics to counter anything in the game. But, it also brings randomness because many of the counter requires guessing, like trying to perfect parry when you are minus to steal back your turn or drive impact in prediction of an incoming move. Yes some call it reads, but reads are basically correct guesses. Not to mention drive parry negates all mixups.
Add all that together, it sums up why the skill ceiling of SF6 is lower than SF4 for example. Which is exactly why you see the same names in top8 or even top 16 of SF4 tournaments but its largely different in SF6. Capcom does that purposefully because they don't want the game to be dominated by the same players over and over again. True enough, from BigBird in Redbull Kumite to AngryBird in Evo to Kakeru in Gamers8 to Uma in Capcom Cup and now Punk in Evo, there is not a player at the top that can consistently win it all. Unlike SF4 era where you have players like Daigo and Infiltration winning consecutive tournaments. And the skill ceiling was so high that you can clearly see the gap between players and if the players actually improved. For example, when Momochi became really good winning Evo and many other tournaments, he was consistently up there and not just for a short period. Where as today in SF6 you have players like MenaRD knocked out early or even Punk just winning Evo not making the cut in the next tournament.
Again, don't get me wrong. SF6 is a great game, but what is it great at exactly? IMO its great at balance, its the best balanced SF series apart from SF1. Its so balanced that no one would or should complain about their losses. However, its not the best in terms of skill ceiling. If you look at other games with high skill ceiling, like MvC2, Starcraft etc.. top players are always at the top. There is very little elements of losing due to bad luck or bad guesses, because those games aren't played with guesses in mind as much as SF6. To how i see, there are some fixes that can easily increase skill ceiling without breaking the balance. For example, make all drive rushes and drive rush cancel attacks on block be +0, while attacks on hit will still be +4. That way, you do not get free +4 advantage without hit confirming or skipping neutral. People will soon realize its not worth to stick out 2mk and buffer drive rushes and revery to playing more traditional neutral. Next, just remove throw loops for all characters, its the worst design choice ever to lower skill ceiling. With these two simple changes, you will see the skill ceiling widen and top players winning more consistently.
SF4 wasn't just Daigo, Infiltration, and Momochi, there was a whole bunch of players that won tournaments. Also Punk literally won CEO and EVO back to back, same with Mena when he won RedBull Kumite and Evo Japan. And you mention the Birds like they are randoms, when they BOTH have multiple major tournament wins.
@@beam5655 I never said they are random, i said they are TOP players. But among top players there are skill GAPS. The gap was much wider in SF4, whereas in SF5 and 6 is much smaller. I have no doubt Punk would do well in SF4, he is playing base on fundamentals of reaction. SF4 was mostly the same players at the top consistently. Yes, randomness does affect consistency but my main argument is skill ceiling, that lowers the skill gap. Players at the top today, Punk, MenaRD, AB etc you name it, their gap is incredibly small, not because they are inherently as skilled but because the game has lower skill ceiling that made them all incredibly competitive to one another.
Think of it this way, like rock paper scissors vs chess. The skill ceiling in RPS is so low compared to chess, because of that, most people can win RPS even if they are not the absolute best, and even the best have a hard time winning consistently. Chess on the other hand has such high skill ceiling, that the top player is almost always the same people. Yes i exaggerating with this analogy but you get my point. If you put Punk, MenaRD and AB etc in SF4, i have no doubt Punk would come up on top and win consistently. Because its simply a game of hit confirms and whiff punishes. In SF6 there is alot of guessing/reads involved because of throw loops and the dreaded drive rush, not only does it skip neutral, it puts you in +4, which is basically an oki situation that your opponent has to guess.
I know you consider SF5 results but SF5 is also another low skill ceiling game. It has the same jump frame as SF6 making it easier to anti air, not to mention they have solid 1 button anti air, some characters even get juggles off a anti air normal that can be followed up into special or super moves. And the worst of all, they have inconsistent wake up timings. They design that to avoid vortex and unblockables that plagued SF4, but they did it in a way that made the game random af. Back roll and quick rise in SF5 was 5 frames apart. Meaning you cannot consistently oppress your opponent after knocking them down, if you meaty them and they wakeup with a different timing, your meaty can whiff and they can punish you. In SF5, waking up jab was a noob but legit strat because of that. I was so glad they fixed that and make wake up options have the same consistent timing in SF6. Not to mention the 8f delay at the early stage of the SF5 development.
Like i said, don't get me wrong, SF6 is a great game. And the players are legit TOP players. But the skill ceiling of the game is just too low for any player to win consistently. Punk, MenaRD, AB or whoever. They can win Evo, Capcom Cup, EWC whatever, but they can't win them back to back or consistently. They can even go down 0-2 or 0-5 its not surprising because of what the sate of the game is.
Great explanation.
@@skychaos87 when SFV came out Infiltration won or got second in like 6 tournaments in a row including EVO. Also look at Punks results in 2017, Tokido in 2018, or iDom in 2022. They are all extremely consistent, as consistent as anyone in SF4. And that's on top of the player pool expanding greatly. Back in the day a top 48 round wouldn't be against a world class player, but now China, Middle East, US, EU, have all leveled up.
You are using results of a tournament that is literally the best of the best to try and prove a point. Punk going 0-2 is an upset, but look who he played against, NL and Ryukichi, both full time pro players. Punk underperformed, that had nothing to do with the game. If anything it shows how on point you have to be to be consistent.
lmao chris wong's face when he got countered
he looks like he just witnessed murder
That’s his everyday face bro. Watch his Ryan Hart interview, or any interviews. It was even a meme - Chris Wong looking like a 45yo burnout.
If it was random they wouldn't have made it to this tournament. This tournament is the best of the best of the best. At a first to 3 , anything can really happen. First to 5 will really decide the best.
SF6 is volatile for sure. I've just gotten used to it and don't know how to temper that volatility.
Brain, as someone that doesn't play AKI, you have a very firm grasp on how you speak about Hikaru's gameplay. Very high quality content here sir.
A game where anyone of the same level can beat anyone of the same level on any given day is not random or chaotic to me. I think thats the sign of a well made game. No same old few top players should dominate. Every top player can shine and dominate.
And from your point of view, what are the reasons why past games were dominated by just these “old few top” players, but now this circle is much more expanded? Isn't it the infamous word “random” that comes to mind here?
@@categorialimperative4182larger playerbase, more incentive for players to travel to other regions to compete
@@categorialimperative4182no, the word you're looking for is "accesible" which is a sign of good game design
@@categorialimperative4182 It's called a bigger game with more people playing it, as well as the passage of time. There being new blood doesn't make a game random, that's stupid.
@@Grande_Vtr I don't know how that makes any sense at all. How does what you call “accesible” have anything to do with what I'm talking about.
So why did those “old few top” from past games have the ability to be successful while others did not? Are you saying those games were designed specifically for their mind set? And that's why they felt like fish in water while others had to crave oxygen?
The only thing that might make sense here is adding Modern mechanics that were designed to be accepted by a wider audience, the only problem is that there are very few professional players who play Modern. So I don't understand what you're trying to say.
good job brain you are the best on keeping up with sf pro news and tournament break down keep the great work up
I don't know if it's random but the rank system this game is way more forgiving- I'm getting plat and diamond and I never got those ranks in 5 (I'm bad)
I don't think it's random, but I think damage scaling is really out of whack. For winning, the margin of error is so small, that it only takes a single misplay to be hit confirmed into losing half your health via drive rush combos. The relationship between your health and your drive meter is too disproportionate. It only feels random, because you aren't afforded enough chances to play your best. I think a damage scaling across the board would be helpful and would make it appear less random.
The damage and momentum shifts in this game are crazy
This is always a tricky conversation because of the semantics involved. Some folks just think 'momentum' makes a game random because a single guess can steamroll the whole match, while other folks think it's the number of guesses per minute that determine whether a thing is 'random' or not. I fall somewhere in the middle. At lower levels of play I think the corner carry and throw loops make the game feel 'too random' to me whereas when I watch high level play it feels like the pros don't struggle as badly in those situations and get more opportunities to fight back. I often wonder whether more health or more rounds per game would somehow make the game 'less volatile' and change the results but I doubt we'll ever get to test it.
I think Topanga league did show that it less volatile. Topanga league has ft7 rule and Kobayan with his Zangief take all the wins in that format. you might want to watch it yourself to draw your own conclusion.
@@almatuska9183 Wouldn't that show the opposite? If the game still has clear better/worse players in long sets but can't show them consistently in small sets, it suggests the game is MORE volatile.
@@Squiddy00 Semantics here but wouldn't 'volatile' here mean that Players in general can basically turn the entire match upside down by simply taking advantage of the other's mistake through mechanics like DR, corner being scary, high damage etc.
So the fact that Kobayan consistently won despite everyone always having many chances to turn the tides against him is a testament that he's skilled enough to beat those mechanics that can go against him consistently when given enough time to study his opponents with long sets, or maybe Zangief is just broken or something.
What you said is basically less about the game itself being volatile and more about small sets being more volatile instead.
@@user-tzzglsstle585e38 Small sets are always going to be MORE volatile than large sets, but they don't turn the game random on their own.
The fact that players can consistently win at long sets is a data point that they are better than their competition. If we assume that those players are good and yet are they incapable of winning consistently in short sets, then the results are volatile; small, inconsistent factors (read: random guesses) lead to major swings in results.
Please do this kind of analysis EVERY tournament, we would watch 100 times
The fact that a well established top tier player (Punk) beat out 5k players while being one of the favorites to win should tell you everything you need to know in regards to how 'random' the game is. Oftentimes when the best play the best, sometimes the only thing to separate them is a few random moments.
I technically agree with you, but I think you might be missing the point.
I’m not saying it’s a random game but that logic doesn’t necessarily work. Or at the very least it’s missing the point. People aren’t saying that it’s completely luck based. Instead they mean it’s significantly luck based even for pros - making the results very volatile at the highest level.
The majority of those 5k are irrelevant in that regard.
But I personally think that people are underestimating how close pros are in skill.
Because of this perceived gap between people like punk and the rest of the competitive scene, it makes it feel like the game is partially luck based to some people.
Punk losing to Ryukichi and NL isn't surprising to me. Shotos are Punks kryptonite this season.
honestly thats how tournaments should be, when there are the same people winning or making grand finals in “tournaments” then that means there are certain things in the game that are just wayyy too strong and whoever knows how to use it better wins.
in tournaments of skill that has MANY skills to master its never the same person winning over and over. yes they might do well on 1v1 but thats different from a tournament.
street fighter 6 has more mental stack than ever compared to other games and its showing. thats how games of skill should be, not just 2 or three things to think about.
also people complain about 50/50s but in real life competitions and sports are full of 50/50s thats why its so hard in real life.
SF6 is the first 'traditional' head to head fighting game I've played basically since Smash 64 came out in the '90s. I wonder what SF5 would feel like to me if I went back to it now.
The thing is those people that knock out those champions aren't nobody either. NGL, since SF is my main fg that I follow, there are a lot of top-tier players especially if you also know Japan and Asia scene. All of EVo top 32 or 50 are filled with known names and could surprise you if they are given the chance.
You should phrase your video titles like questions more, mmmmmmm engagement
Easily some of the highest quality content when it comes to tournament recaps, especially for people that don't have time to watch every match and just want basic summaries. Keep up the good work
a mix of the drive meter and throw loops severely damage this games competitive integrity
Exactly. Life is 'random' when people's preconceived notions of what's going to happen don't happen according to their precalculations. It's a part of life, and simply needs to be accepted rather than feared because of the loss of security. The false security of believing that we know how things will turn out in life.
How many times has that already happened though in sports? Where the favored competitor becomes beaten or through some weird interaction it changes the course of the game? It happens all the time. People aren't machines, so their 'output' or performance varies, even among 'consistent' players.
Consistency is important from a competitors mindset...but as they say, "Anything can happen."
For those who say this game is too swingy, I want to give you my irl experience against players i Know personally.
I've played a lot for a novice, and one time i organized a night where all my friends were compeeting to beat me.
Now, again, I'm no pro, nor a good playe, but still, the night finished (at 5 a.m.) with me still undefeated.
Now, I don't know if at really high level you can casually become bad, but to me, the only "problem" is that in sf6 everybody does a lot lf damage, and that sometimes, in a ft3 someone can be able to pull of a full combo ending up winning, but that doesn't mean this game is random.
i love these recaps, they've got me interested in esports in a way i would'nt be without them!
There’s a lot more top players in SF6. A lot of talents are popping out due to how good SF6 is. So essentially it seem random cuz it’s randomly among a bigger bunch of top players… I believe they all have more or less close skill levels.
Your "story telling style" recap are your best pieces IMHO, you really shine as a content producer when you do them. Well done!
It's hard to say "oh it'not random or volatile" when that random interaction with Nephew is not immediately called out as a bug, isn't it? How many of these random 1 frame game changing counter intuitive interactions exist in the game?
That wasn't random, it was lack of game knowledge that Ed's super has more invincibility frames. Theoretically he could have known. Any randomness in sf6 more comes from guessing situations and high damage.
Thanks for the noobie-friendly breakdown. I've just started my SF6 journey and wouldn't have seen/recognized the plays. :)
its random when I lose its not random when i win
Street Fighter 6 is only random when my opponent hits me with anything.
I think the level of play is very high in the modern era, it's hard for top players to get significantly far ahead of the competition.
Probably helps to have way more resources to get better
Great, informative video Brian. You really break down the issues of your topics.
why is bro hitting the Aphex Twin face in the thumbnail 😭
In case anyone is wondering, Nephew should have done st mp to st hp combo after blocked dp. I'm guessing he auto piloted the non punish counter combo not realizing the spacing was off.
C mk or Forward mp would have also probably reached
They had to go overboard with Chris Wong in photoshop to make it look like he wasn't about to cry. Not his fault! His face just looks like tears are imminent.
Also, I very much do not believe that Nephew and Tachikawa did their supers on the exact same frame. Would love if you labbed it out.
Tachikawa almost suffer the Woshige curse.
The exact opposite lol
Putting this to bed now: There is ALWAYS going to be a level of luck in any game/sport that has ever existed. Depending on the rules, the luck factor can be high or low (think Poker vs Tic-Tac-Toe), but that factor will NEVER be zero. This game is consistent enough to where we see regular names at the top, but unpredictable enough that those players still need to study and train to prepare for the infinite amount of situations that pop up. With the amount of viable characters and different playstyles, you can’t be prepared for everything, so all you can do is play your best. I recommend watching the Core-A video on randomness or cutcc’s spontaneity video
It's definitely not random but there are elements of guessing that are significant and it's easy to see how someone can loose to someone as often the difference between two top players will just be a few correct guesses.
In general the more a fighting game spends in neural the less time players spend guessing. I would say that in SF6 there is a moderate amount of neutral play but it has a few too many options for players to skip neutral and getting back to neutral is usually a guess in itself (dp, v-reversal, drive impact etc).
Really entertaining vid, even though I watched the tournament this narrative commentary is great.
nephew was robed
100% with Brian and I don’t buy the volatility thing - it’s all cope by these dudes after they lose. These are the top .00001% of the player base and any game can go either way. The same top 500 compete at basically all open enrollment tournaments, with the winner rotating because the skill gap isn’t that large. Pro sports are the same way - any given Sunday.
It isn’t random, it’s just a game that requires constant immense focus and punishes you for losing it. Simple.
Well said
It also requires guessing every 5 seconds
This game is BS right now!!! Tone down drive rush and limit the times you can do drive impact and it will be great!!
The Chris Wong airbrush has him looking 8 years old 🤣
I don't think it's possible to have consistent results in an invitational like this since every player who has earn their spot is a killer.
especially with the talent predictions, i really feel like people here just know the famous western players around them, we had the Same conversation in capcom cup with leshar and uma
These recaps are the best. Awesome content
I think everything that happens is normal, on the contrary, this is what the championship should be like, and the excitement increases when you do not know who will win. This is what we want anyway.
This era no matter how great of game they gave us will still have some whiners looking for viral complaints
The craziest thing about this is that nephew may have loss because he uses leverless. Since you can input super faster on leverless.
Great recap as always.
I feel like people don’t understand how mentally stacking it is for these players to play back to back sets. I feel like the format of this competition isn’t completely fair since for the group stages the guy who loses basically just gets steamrolled. They lose one game that allows them to qualify and then immediately have to play other that if they lose will kick them out of the tournament. Also unlike most tournaments you don’t have a warm up period either. You come here your first opponent is just the best of the best. Mena was just so fixated on defeating Zhen but after that loss just couldn’t come back mentally. Punk just felt kinda out of it like he said. BigBird also said the same where after losing the first game they just couldn’t mentally comeback and fully focus and lock in. But god damn AngryBird is going mad crazy right now.
I think a lot of people confuse randomness with volatility. It's not random, it's not like frame data or damage values change for no reason, but momentum can kill you within the first second and with so many options that cannot be easily beat with developer-unintended options (a la Leshar using OD DP to beat DI) adding greatly to the mental stack, it can FEEL random.
That Ed Lv3 vs Juri Lv3 interaction isn't going to help it beat the allegations though...
Top tier take. Sf6 anyone can win at any point. Its an offence heavy game and it was designed to be this way. If people hesitate at high level for a moment the round is over. So any of these high level players are more than capable to taking out any other high level player. Nothing shocking in fact it should be rejoiced that we have a competitive fg where its not always the 4 or 5 players who are guaranteed. Its way more entertaining
My opinion on this discourse is very simple. Yes this game is random as fuck, but it's also fun as fuck so I don't really care.
I repeatedly oscillate between "It's so over" and "WE'RE SO BACK" playing this game. This game makes me scared at full health lmao
It's volatile af right now.
@@TheRedCap30Sometimes I’ll guess wrong and verbally say “oh I’m dead” even at full health lmao
There is randomness in all games. Even FPS, there is a chance you round a corner and your crosshair just lines up with the enemy, while that enemy isn't looking at you. You can still play around luck with strategy and skill. Mario Kart 8 seemingly is very random, but if you watch pros there actually is strategy to playing around items, staying away from the pack, bagging... Same with SF6. OKI is just you forcing the opponent into a rock, paper, scissor guess. There are some things you can to do avoid and stay safe, and mindgames you can play during the match to influence their decisions.
Luck has its place in all sports to varying degrees. Nobody can long drive a ball in golf to a precise location, but sometimes it lands just right and rolls where you want it, other times not. You only have so much influence on the game.
Mario kart is also random but it’s one of the most popular games of all time
Unless you are Legend you don't loose because of bad luck, it's human to search for excuses but if you want to get better you need to recognize when it's excuse.
BASED
They struck gold making the game easy to get into/good beginning stage, so people are studying, training, finding time to join events. Hidden talent, rising talent is getting a chance to over shadow the titans
its random cause even high level players guess wrong sometimes? ok. Would you rather us go back to having option selects to cover every single outcome? that game exists if you want to go play it.
@20:20 How does this even happen? Isn't the whole point of locking sticks / hitboxes to prevent this? This has nothing to do with PS5, it's 100% on Nuckledu
it's definitely more random than sf4, let's imagine sf6 with crouch tech throw break and removed drive rush the game would resemble sf4
13:55 what do you mean "somehow" moves have different properties, you cant just assume every super has the same amount of invincibility
If the game was random, you'd have random, unknown Bronze players making it to top 32 in majors. As someone said, it's top-level players beating top-level players.
The reason it feels random or the reason it feels like the favorites lose so dramatically at times, is we overrate specific, 1-off outcomes. Winning Evo isn't a buff that makes you better at other events. Being a Capcom Cup champion just means you beat those specific opponents that day. It does not mean you're better than them and would win against them all the time.
High level competition in anything is volatile. Basketball is not random just because the last five NBA champions failed to even make it back to the next year's finals.
What we're seeing is a real world result of both balance and parity. There's like a 30-player group that is mostly evenly matched and on any given day, one of them can win any event. Mena or Punk (just examples) might be the best players in the last 5 years, but there's no one in that 30-player group that these guys would beat in a first to 3 every single day.
Random is a playstyle coming from the players playing the game, sf6 is a game and I don't think it has a random mechanic. It's more like a volatile, tide turning, spontaneous change of higher ground game once you make a slight mistake. The opponents can just capitalize off of your mistake and turn the tide against you, one time you have the higher ground, the next moment your opponent has the higher ground. How the tables have changed.
Well if you take olympics as a comparison, many favorites and current defending champs also lost and some fell out early, its just more about the nature of high level competition where if you dont deliver right then and there for whatever reason youre out.
In both cases nothing random about it, simply the only thing that matters is how good you are on that given day obviously.
@brian_F, you should get into the commentary business....
What people tend to forget is not only that every single player competing there were the "cream of the crop" but that when you win something major you have a target on your back, people WILL study your playstyle and gameplay.
Loving these summaries