I am really liking that you are including information on how hard some of the issues are to fix. I have yet bought one where there isn't some kind of issues - but all issues are not created equal. This is really good information....
Excellent product review as usual, I am glad to see that a model of the early UP csa class "challenger" locomotives have been produced in ho scale. This model is attractive if you are a UP steam fan.
Hey Dan good video I totally agree on the fact that you should not have any broken parts or any problems such as the pilot, grab iron and outout gauge wheels. As wheel as the traction tire not picking up power. Ganks again for the great video I can’t wait to see what is down the road for you. Jeff aka NW611J.
I have a Genesis 484 and a Big Boy. It was a while since I assembled them. I am boxing to move and could not figure how to disconnect to go into the box. After an afternoon I found your website. Thanks for going over the assembly. Athern web site was no help. All boxed after your presentation here!
Excelent review Dan, very objective in your testing. I had been hankering after one of these early Challengers since I saw them on Ken Paterson's podcast recently, but after watching this I feel the build quality does not match the price. Might wait a few years until the second-hand ones start appearing on flea-bay.
It does have some flaws for sure, though in fairness it does run really well. Shopping for used engines can yield some bargains if you're patient. Good luck!
I‘m in O and I think you guys are too harsh with your critiques. It‘s so cool that so nice models are being produced and you should be a bit more grateful about it. We in O have to screw on virtually anything and appreciate manufacturers helping us with new releases.
I hear you, but I don't think that manufacturers should get a pass on quality control issues just because they made something that people have been wanting for a while. Most of the models I review fall down a little on quality control. It's disappointing to shell out a lot of money for something that has issues that need fixing. That doesn't mean I think they're bad models. I'd just like it if they didn't need work straight out of the box (unless they want to start calling them kits). Thanks for watching!
I really love your train video. I understand why you gave it the grade you did. For that amount of money you would think that they would take a little more care in building this model and check stuff like that.
Thank you for a very good review. The lack of a smoke unit is not an issue for me, why fit traction tyres? The engine weighes 24 ounces which should ensure enough pulling power for most people,or are these there to overcome the drag of the tender lol! Maybe a bit of tweaking with a pair of thin nosed pliers on the pickups might improve the rollability of the tender.This fault like the others should not be on this loco costing what it does.Thanks for pointing out all these quality control issues.
I think the tender pickups could be loosened a bit and still function. I'm not sure why they felt the need to use traction tires on a model this heavy. Maybe they're trying to impress people with how many cars a single engine can pull. Personally I'd rather not have them. It has six drive axles, and most six-axle diesels don't have traction tires. Some of those have some impressive pulling power without them. If nothing else for this kind of money it would have been nice if they would have included a couple extra driver sets without the traction tires so modelers would have the option to swap them out. Thanks for watching!
Hi Dan I were a model train manufacturer I would take your review very very serious. You are by far one of the most honest reviewers out there thanks. Btw will you be doing more n scale in the future?
Great video! I haven't done any purchasing of trains in many years. Even considering the premium pricing of DCC, $500+ seems very expensive to me. Factoring in the cost, I would have failed the locomotive during this review. A premium price demands premium quality.
This is an expensive engine, no doubt. It seems like most models these days have quality control issues, simple things that really shouldn't happen, like out of gauge wheels. It's especially disappointing on something this pricey. Thanks for watching!
Nice Athearn Challenger! The 3802 was originally 3902 but renumbered to that Google Richard leonards steam photos 3802 or 3902. You'll see a picture of it
@@DanielCortopassi The NYC, the railroad that ran through where amtrak's charger hauled wolverine runs supposedly was going to develop a challenger locomotive with that look the earlier challenger had, called the cuyahoga. All of their steamers were named after rivers the line passed through. Theres even a drawing of it from the NYC Railroad's historical society, and the look is pretty similar. To go along with the Niagara, they even planned a niagara duplex, the C1a. The Challenger or Cuyahoga was the NF-1a.
Just bought one last night @$435 and had to repair the trailing truck (wheels fell out repeatedly), replace the speakers (new and blown?), And download and reapply all the software/data/run and sound files due to a "shorting" issue with the blown speakers, this loco gave my train repair guy fits for about 3 hrs until we got it repaired and running again.
Loco is quite a beast. I agree with your assessment for one costing this much. For the price, do you believe the smoke unit should have been included? I do. IMO. Nice job again Dan keep em coming!!
I don't really use smoke units so that's not a big issue for me, but on the other hand there are other steamers in this price range and lower that have smoke units included. Value is subjective, but this is a very expensive model for what it is. Thanks for watching!
I am used to the pricing on diesel locos, so this one seemed a bit on the pricey side. I agree with your critique on the wheels (again) and couplers on such an expensive piece. For that price it should be flawless IMO
looks amazing. like how the pipping works. you had me sold on it till you said there was no smoke unit. this is a must for steam. so bam I am out. I know you said you can add one. but half the time i find they don't work, and not covered by any warranties. thanks Dan fantastic review.
I usually turn my engines down. It's especially important when there are a lot of them on the same layout. The noise can get annoying. Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi I did a tug-of-war pull test between my BLI late challenger and a club members athearn early challenger. the bli walked away. I have no reason to belie the early challenger will be any different. I think its insane athearn charges $500-700 for in my opinion, light plastic models of moderate detail
The ESU decoders sometimes vary the whistle a bit randomly when you press F2. It also depends on how long F2 is held down. I didn't do anything special. Thanks for watching!
I'm going to be honest, Daniel. I really enjoyed this review. It felt more informative and straight to the point. It felt fresh, clean, and not so over the top with those fancy sponsor-ships. *cough* JWILL2000 and his promotional sales video for TrainWorld. I don't like other reviewers especially his, because theirs is too long and it feels like they are showing off and putting down on others who don't have the model. As for the model, I was very surprised to see the amount of flaws and problems for the Challenger. I really want to thank you for showing the flaws because let's face it, if you're going to pay $630, it better be worth every penny. I was going to save up for one because everyone was getting hype for it. But after I saw the "final" product, it felt like a let down. Not only we waited 2 years, the final end product ended up looking "incomplete", and it's very underwhelming, especially for the price. Even it has ESU loksound, the sound was underwhelming. It turns out this model was over-hyped than it was supposed it be. I'll admit I was an ass to you a couple of months ago. But I was just upset because I was getting circle-jerk by JWILL2000 and his fans when I asked if he gets paid to do reviews or free stuff. (Believe me, he went ape-sh*t on me. Not was I expecting.)
My goal is just to present an honest evaluation of a model, both good and bad points. I try to keep them concise. I'm glad you liked this review, even if the model had some drawbacks. I was recently told that if I continue to do critical reviews, I can probably forget about getting sponsorships. That's okay with me. I'd rather continue to be honest so that hopefully I can help people make better purchasing decisions. Thanks for watching!
Well, I totally respect what you're doing and I really hope you continue to do what you think is right. I'm just tired of seeing all these reviewers getting $700 models every week and making a 20-30 minute "honest" review on them. When I asked if they were sponsored, they went defensive on me and deleted my comment.
I enjoy hearing the critical reviews because its a sense that they are not sponsored or paid by the company. Plus, it gives a warning signs to consider. I seen too many model train reviewers on RUclips never say one bad thing about the product when it's flaw is obviously there . But, when they advertise the website and the place they get it from, it gives a sense that they didn't buy it but rather was given to them in exchange for a advertisement product endorse. I won't say names, but hopefully know what I'm talking about.
Hi Daniel, at last a reviewer who has got a set of balls and calling it like it is ,thanks Daniel for your honest approach. Athearn is not know for it quality and stings customers with pricing . There are other manufactures out there who are listening to what people want, that is Quality, correct detail and reasonable prices. Athearn keeps producing the some crap with very little in provements . I get real tied of JWILL2000 reviewing products and blowing sun shine up Manufactures backsides and so frighten of offending some of these manfacturers when you can see for your own eyes that there are faults You dont have to be a rocket scientist to work that out Keep the good work up and as they say KEEP THE BASTARDS HONEST
I stopped watching JWILL2000 years ago. He used to be really honest with his reviews back in the days, but now he's just showing off. He gets very defensive when he gets asked if he sponsored.
Great reviews I would like it if you held all of your steam engines to a set standard to be judged by. Perhaps add points for details above and beyond what the industry-standard is
It looks like a plastic toy ... why can’t Athearn make it from Brass and Die cast metal . Made in China .... crappy quality and the manufacturing cost is probably about $25.00
Why does no one ever mention valve gear motion?? When the eccentric crank is set at or nearly at the point of the axle center hub, the eccentric rod doesn’t move or barely moves at all. Since the valve gear, of a locomotive that has an external valve mechanism, is what makes external valve gear locos so pleasing to watch, then a model with barely moving eccentric rods is worthless to a real steam locomotive aficionado like myself. That alone in my opinion is a full 100 PT deduction. Report card=F- Sad because Athearn Genesis, of all the manufactures, models their locos the closest to prototype. MTH pays closest attention to valve gear movement but their models don’t quite reach Athearn in the looks department. The search continues.
I have to confess I didn't pay much attention to that particular aspect of this model. Maybe it's because I'm predominantly a diesel guy. I have had my share of clunker steam engines that run badly because the side rods bind or the drivers are slightly out of quarter, so when I see one that runs smoothly, I'm usually thrilled! It should be possible to loosen the crank pin screws and rotate the eccentric crank slightly to increase the valve gear motion, then tighten them down again. As long as it's not too exaggerated, it could probably be done without affecting the running qualities of the locomotive. Thanks for watching!
Nice to see I'm not alone in my feelings about the Jw whatever guy. Can't stand his monotone voice and his sucking up to the manufactures. I feel he wants to be a model railroading celebrity. I also enjoy Dan's "tell it like it is" reviews.
Highly detailed steam engine models tend to be pricey, yes. Diesels tend to be a little less, though the highly detailed ones are still expensive. Models years ago cost less, but they were generally not as detailed or accurate. Inflation is a factor too. Thanks for watching!
I am really liking that you are including information on how hard some of the issues are to fix. I have yet bought one where there isn't some kind of issues - but all issues are not created equal. This is really good information....
Thanks, I am trying to make the reviews as comprehensive as I can. I'm glad you're finding them useful!
I like the way you do the reviews here apposed to the ones on the TSG channel. Fantastic review.
Thanks so much. Since I had the opportunity to start over, I decided to rethink the format. I'm glad you like it!
Excellent product review as usual, I am glad to see that a model of the early UP csa class "challenger" locomotives have been produced in ho scale. This model is attractive if you are a UP steam fan.
These are pretty nice models. Thanks for watching!
Hey Dan good video I totally agree on the fact that you should not have any broken parts or any problems such as the pilot, grab iron and outout gauge wheels. As wheel as the traction tire not picking up power. Ganks again for the great video I can’t wait to see what is down the road for you. Jeff aka NW611J.
A lot of expensive models fall down on simple quality issues that seem like they would be easy to address. Thanks for watching!
I have a Genesis 484 and a Big Boy. It was a while since I assembled them. I am boxing to move and could not figure how to disconnect to go into the box. After an afternoon I found your website. Thanks for going over the assembly. Athern web site was no help. All boxed after your presentation here!
I'm glad you found the video helpful, and in a way I didn't foresee! Thanks for the feedback and for watching!
My favorite product reviews right here. Second to none.
Thanks so much! And thanks for watching!
i love mine infact out of all my challengers its my favorite 3827
These are neat locomotives. Thanks for watching!
Bella presentazione.👍
Grazie!
Excelent review Dan, very objective in your testing. I had been hankering after one of these early Challengers since I saw them on Ken Paterson's podcast recently, but after watching this I feel the build quality does not match the price. Might wait a few years until the second-hand ones start appearing on flea-bay.
It does have some flaws for sure, though in fairness it does run really well. Shopping for used engines can yield some bargains if you're patient. Good luck!
I‘m in O and I think you guys are too harsh with your critiques. It‘s so cool that so nice models are being produced and you should be a bit more grateful about it. We in O have to screw on virtually anything and appreciate manufacturers helping us with new releases.
I hear you, but I don't think that manufacturers should get a pass on quality control issues just because they made something that people have been wanting for a while. Most of the models I review fall down a little on quality control. It's disappointing to shell out a lot of money for something that has issues that need fixing. That doesn't mean I think they're bad models. I'd just like it if they didn't need work straight out of the box (unless they want to start calling them kits). Thanks for watching!
I really love your train video. I understand why you gave it the grade you did. For that amount of money you would think that they would take a little more care in building this model and check stuff like that.
Quality control is the biggest issue that I've seen in most higher end models. Thanks for watching!
Nice review! I'm liking the new review format.
Glad you like it! Thanks for watching!
Thank you for a very good review. The lack of a smoke unit is not an issue for me, why fit traction tyres? The engine weighes 24 ounces which should ensure enough pulling power for most people,or are these there to overcome the drag of the tender lol! Maybe a bit of tweaking with a pair of thin nosed pliers on the pickups might improve the rollability of the tender.This fault like the others should not be on this loco costing what it does.Thanks for pointing out all these quality control issues.
I think the tender pickups could be loosened a bit and still function. I'm not sure why they felt the need to use traction tires on a model this heavy. Maybe they're trying to impress people with how many cars a single engine can pull. Personally I'd rather not have them. It has six drive axles, and most six-axle diesels don't have traction tires. Some of those have some impressive pulling power without them. If nothing else for this kind of money it would have been nice if they would have included a couple extra driver sets without the traction tires so modelers would have the option to swap them out. Thanks for watching!
Hi Dan I were a model train manufacturer I would take your review very very serious. You are by far one of the most honest reviewers out there thanks. Btw will you be doing more n scale in the future?
Yes, there is a new N scale review of the ScaleTrains Tier 4 GEVo coming out later today. Thanks for watching!
Thx for the review glad I didn’t pay full price got mine for $330
Sounds like a pretty good deal. Thanks for watching!
Great video! I haven't done any purchasing of trains in many years. Even considering the premium pricing of DCC, $500+ seems very expensive to me. Factoring in the cost, I would have failed the locomotive during this review. A premium price demands premium quality.
This is an expensive engine, no doubt. It seems like most models these days have quality control issues, simple things that really shouldn't happen, like out of gauge wheels. It's especially disappointing on something this pricey. Thanks for watching!
Nice Athearn Challenger! The 3802 was originally 3902 but renumbered to that
Google Richard leonards steam photos 3802 or 3902. You'll see a picture of it
Thanks for the info and for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi The NYC, the railroad that ran through where amtrak's charger hauled wolverine runs supposedly was going to develop a challenger locomotive with that look the earlier challenger had, called the cuyahoga. All of their steamers were named after rivers the line passed through. Theres even a drawing of it from the NYC Railroad's historical society, and the look is pretty similar. To go along with the Niagara, they even planned a niagara duplex, the C1a. The Challenger or Cuyahoga was the NF-1a.
I have bought several Big Boys from Märklin, and they all had broken/missing parts as well (costs US$ 1000 here). Nobody produces Perfect models...
It's unfortunate that many models have issues, especially high-dollar ones. Thanks for watching!
Just bought one last night @$435 and had to repair the trailing truck (wheels fell out repeatedly), replace the speakers (new and blown?), And download and reapply all the software/data/run and sound files due to a "shorting" issue with the blown speakers, this loco gave my train repair guy fits for about 3 hrs until we got it repaired and running again.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. Uneven quality control seems to be an issue with a lot of models these days. Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi it's ok, it happens, at least I was able to get the locomotive sorted out and proper
Great video like always
Thanks for watching!
Loco is quite a beast. I agree with your assessment for one costing this much. For the price, do you believe the smoke unit should have been included? I do. IMO. Nice job again Dan keep em coming!!
I don't really use smoke units so that's not a big issue for me, but on the other hand there are other steamers in this price range and lower that have smoke units included. Value is subjective, but this is a very expensive model for what it is. Thanks for watching!
I am used to the pricing on diesel locos, so this one seemed a bit on the pricey side. I agree with your critique on the wheels (again) and couplers on such an expensive piece. For that price it should be flawless IMO
looks amazing. like how the pipping works. you had me sold on it till you said there was no smoke unit. this is a must for steam. so bam I am out. I know you said you can add one. but half the time i find they don't work, and not covered by any warranties. thanks Dan fantastic review.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
Nice!
Thanks for watching!
Looking good
Thanks for watching!
i like quiet sound because i have a 20 square foot room with no sound absorburs
I usually turn my engines down. It's especially important when there are a lot of them on the same layout. The noise can get annoying. Thanks for watching!
To many issues for such an expensive model. I'll pass on this model. Thanks for posting Dan.
You're welcome. I'm glad you found the review useful. Thanks for watching!
Ill wait for the BLI release
Interesting they're doing one, too. Thanks for watching!
@@DanielCortopassi I did a tug-of-war pull test between my BLI late challenger and a club members athearn early challenger. the bli walked away. I have no reason to belie the early challenger will be any different. I think its insane athearn charges $500-700 for in my opinion, light plastic models of moderate detail
How did you quill the whistle
The ESU decoders sometimes vary the whistle a bit randomly when you press F2. It also depends on how long F2 is held down. I didn't do anything special. Thanks for watching!
I'm going to be honest, Daniel. I really enjoyed this review. It felt more informative and straight to the point. It felt fresh, clean, and not so over the top with those fancy sponsor-ships. *cough* JWILL2000 and his promotional sales video for TrainWorld. I don't like other reviewers especially his, because theirs is too long and it feels like they are showing off and putting down on others who don't have the model.
As for the model, I was very surprised to see the amount of flaws and problems for the Challenger. I really want to thank you for showing the flaws because let's face it, if you're going to pay $630, it better be worth every penny. I was going to save up for one because everyone was getting hype for it. But after I saw the "final" product, it felt like a let down. Not only we waited 2 years, the final end product ended up looking "incomplete", and it's very underwhelming, especially for the price. Even it has ESU loksound, the sound was underwhelming. It turns out this model was over-hyped than it was supposed it be.
I'll admit I was an ass to you a couple of months ago. But I was just upset because I was getting circle-jerk by JWILL2000 and his fans when I asked if he gets paid to do reviews or free stuff. (Believe me, he went ape-sh*t on me. Not was I expecting.)
My goal is just to present an honest evaluation of a model, both good and bad points. I try to keep them concise. I'm glad you liked this review, even if the model had some drawbacks. I was recently told that if I continue to do critical reviews, I can probably forget about getting sponsorships. That's okay with me. I'd rather continue to be honest so that hopefully I can help people make better purchasing decisions. Thanks for watching!
Well, I totally respect what you're doing and I really hope you continue to do what you think is right. I'm just tired of seeing all these reviewers getting $700 models every week and making a 20-30 minute "honest" review on them. When I asked if they were sponsored, they went defensive on me and deleted my comment.
I enjoy hearing the critical reviews because its a sense that they are not sponsored or paid by the company. Plus, it gives a warning signs to consider. I seen too many model train reviewers on RUclips never say one bad thing about the product when it's flaw is obviously there . But, when they advertise the website and the place they get it from, it gives a sense that they didn't buy it but rather was given to them in exchange for a advertisement product endorse. I won't say names, but hopefully know what I'm talking about.
Hi Daniel, at last a reviewer who has got a set of balls and calling it like it is ,thanks Daniel for your honest approach. Athearn is not know for it quality and stings customers with pricing . There are other manufactures out there who are listening to what people want, that is Quality, correct detail and reasonable prices. Athearn keeps producing the some crap with very little in provements . I get real tied of JWILL2000 reviewing products and blowing sun shine up Manufactures backsides and so frighten of offending some of these manfacturers when you can see for your own eyes that there are faults You dont have to be a rocket scientist to work that out Keep the good work up and as they say KEEP THE BASTARDS HONEST
I stopped watching JWILL2000 years ago. He used to be really honest with his reviews back in the days, but now he's just showing off. He gets very defensive when he gets asked if he sponsored.
Great reviews I would like it if you held all of your steam engines to a set standard to be judged by. Perhaps add points for details above and beyond what the industry-standard is
That's an interesting concept. I'd have to think about that one. Thanks for the suggestion!
Better be perfect for that amount of money
I agree. Thanks for watching!
There is no smoke unit it it is smoke unit ready
It looks like a plastic toy ... why can’t Athearn make it from Brass and Die cast metal . Made in China .... crappy quality and the manufacturing cost is probably about $25.00
Most model trains are made in China these days it seems. Thanks for watching!
Why does no one ever mention valve gear motion?? When the eccentric crank is set at or nearly at the point of the axle center hub, the eccentric rod doesn’t move or barely moves at all. Since the valve gear, of a locomotive that has an external valve mechanism, is what makes external valve gear locos so pleasing to watch, then a model with barely moving eccentric rods is worthless to a real steam locomotive aficionado like myself. That alone in my opinion is a full 100 PT deduction. Report card=F- Sad because Athearn Genesis, of all the manufactures, models their locos the closest to prototype. MTH pays closest attention to valve gear movement but their models don’t quite reach Athearn in the looks department. The search continues.
I have to confess I didn't pay much attention to that particular aspect of this model. Maybe it's because I'm predominantly a diesel guy. I have had my share of clunker steam engines that run badly because the side rods bind or the drivers are slightly out of quarter, so when I see one that runs smoothly, I'm usually thrilled! It should be possible to loosen the crank pin screws and rotate the eccentric crank slightly to increase the valve gear motion, then tighten them down again. As long as it's not too exaggerated, it could probably be done without affecting the running qualities of the locomotive. Thanks for watching!
Daniel Cortopassi, understandable. Thanks for your comprehensive reply!
Nice to see I'm not alone in my feelings about the Jw whatever guy. Can't stand his monotone voice and his sucking up to the manufactures. I feel he wants to be a model railroading celebrity. I also enjoy Dan's "tell it like it is" reviews.
I'm glad you like my review format. Thanks for watching!
That's a far cry from all those low priced great diesel locos. I hate how expensive model trains have become.
Highly detailed steam engine models tend to be pricey, yes. Diesels tend to be a little less, though the highly detailed ones are still expensive. Models years ago cost less, but they were generally not as detailed or accurate. Inflation is a factor too. Thanks for watching!
This is a river counting nightmare.
Thanks for watching!
NEVER GiVE UP
Not planning to. Thanks for watching!
I’ll pass on it .
Thanks for watching!