Surrey Quays International Station
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
- The never-built Channel Tunnel terminus in South-East London.
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"There was also talk of a tunnel underneath Croydon, which in those days was the best way to experience Croydon"
Still is bruv, still is.
Can confirm, worked there for a while.
you beat me to it.....
That line made me chuckle as well
I live and work in Croydon, can confirm 😅
Probably shouldn't laugh - but its a funny line
I gather that somewhere among the Russia Dock, the Norway Dock, and the Canada Dock, there used to be a Hickory Dickory Dock, but it got closed down on account of an infestation of mice.
The Palpatine comparison is so good it deserves to be used regularly.
Although I don't remember Palpetine having shares in taun-taun farms 😊
@@RichardWatt His wife owned the shares, to avoid a conflict of interests. Allegedly.
You are the Palpatine to my Dr Beeching
Definitely a "Yerkes level" reference!
Whato all,
We are forgetting Barbara Castle's involvement in the closures.
Watching this video while taking a journey from my local station, Surrey Quays, via Canada Water, seeing all the footage of those two stations had given me an unexpected existential crisis. At any moment on a tube journey you could be beside Jago Hazzard and not even know it.
Exactly the same happened to me. Got home via Surrey Quays to this video.
@@d33w Nothing unifies Londoners more than a short RUclips video about their local station. Hello neighbour x
@@rachelblaquiere9134 hi there neighbour 👋
Jago could even be beside himself!
I mean… you know what he looks like. Or you can, if you don’t: he was in two Jay Foreman videos. Though I’m not sure I’d recognise him without the iconic glasses.
I found myself wanting more maps. It can get confusing to keep all this in my head based on very limited knowledge of South London in the late 20th century.
I always love your editing jokes. Voice over - "where would the London terminus be?"; on-screen answer 'North Pole'. 🙂
I want to know the story of you at the inauguration of the Channel Tunnel.
Please tell us one day
Very much this. I thought Jago was only in his early 30s at most
@@SmudgeThomas I reckon he's about the same age as me. I would have been 15 when the channel tunnel first opened. Maybe slightly younger, (Jago).
Hes 67 @@SmudgeThomas
I was one of the first people to move into Brunswick Quay on Greenland Dock in 1986. My family moved from Lewisham. I watched it grow up around me. The shopping centre wasn't tgere. I fact I worked at WH Smith tgere on the opening day. I travelled to school on the East London Line to New Cross, and used it very regularly to go into town. I even did a report in the docklands development for my geography GCSE!
Jago, now you've got to tell the story of the Channel Tunnel ceremony!
Can you imagine, taking the train and in Paris pulling into central Paris and Gare du Nord. Only to have the London end pull up in Surrey Quays, miles from where many folk want to be....yeah that idea really was gonna take off wasnt it...one could argue it was a worse idea than using an already overcrowded Waterloo....
eeerrrr.................no
Parisiens don't really rate the Gare du Nord area though.
@@katrinabryce true, but it's still central Paris, Gare du Nord is like Waterloo....the Paris equivalent of Surrey Quays would be Saint Denis....
Victoria was glaringly obvious as already had the international infrastructure, albeit unused by then after the demise of the Night Ferry and London end of the Orient Express.
@@tonys1636 whilst it would have been an obvious choice for that reason, given the route of the tunnel, and the (then) desire to run regional trains to Europe the alignment for HS1 would make Victoria an impossibility, and would have suffered much the same issues as Waterloo did.
The only station in my mind they could have used if they hadnt in the long term gone with St Pancras, was Fenchurch Street, given it's relatively under-utilised Essex/Thames gateway services
Ouch that was a cutting remark about Croydon😂
I have a copy of "Channel Tunnel London-Tunnel rail link A document for consultation" dated January 1974. This shows the White City terminal (although it appears to be a through station) in some detail. The route was pretty much along the Folkestone/Ashford/Tonbridge route as far as Edenbridge before heading northwest through Woldingham, under Croydon and then Balham and Clapham Junction. This was for a standard sized rail only tunnel. However, there was an earlier plan which involved tunnelling under Peckham Rye because the public tennis courts just north of the station (now a park) were closed in anticipation of it being an air-shaft for the tunnel work.
Loved the Asterix Joke reference.
There was also one mention to the channel tunnel in one of the older Dad's Army episodes (The Battle for Godfrey's Cottage)
And at the end of the original film.
I was in the studio audience for the recording of The Battle of Godfrey's Cottage. It was the day that Bud Flanagan died: this was announced to the audience at the start.
@@Alan-ln3ls wow
Work actually started on the Channel Tunnel in 1974 - I'm old enough to remember a BBC 'Jim'll Fix it' (ahem) programme from that era in which a lucky kid was granted the opportunity to work a channel tunnel digging machine (ahem).
The incoming Labour government of 1974 abandoned the project right in full throat due to a financial crisis, with the Chunnel being an easy target to slash. Shades of HS2 2024.
‘ahem’ …🤨😅😉✌️
I love your throwaway comment about Croydon. I was brought up nearby and we spent our time trying to avoid it 😂
Jago, the Middleton Press published a book called 'East London line' by Vic Mitchell and Keith Smith, which covers New Cross/New Cross Gate, and the stops along the line, to the time when there was the spur to Liverpool Street. This book is one of the 23 in their 'London suburban railways' series.
I remember going to Surrey Quays back in 2002/03 when it was still the East London Line and operated by Tube stock.
Nowhere near as busy as it is now!
I had an Ian Allan Locospotters' Annual in the early 1960s with an article on what the Kensington Olympia international station would look like in 1970 when the Channel Tunnel was finished. Dual voltage (third rail and overhead) multiple units with those corrugated stainless steel sides very fashionable at the time (think TEE) would be used for day trains, and electric locos would haul trains of sleeping cars from all corners of Europe...
Don't forget the idea of expanding the Shoreditch-Liverpool St link to take over 2 platforms of Liverpool St, what stymied the whole thing pretty early was even back then during rush hour Liverpool St traffic was block to block congested and the approaches blocks are quite small compared to other terminus approaches and quite often a guard would pass the time with a driver leaning out his window mere feet away waiting for a bay to clear. In short they could have reinstalled the SR-ER link not a problem... but chaos beckoneth trying to insert trains into very very tight windows and it would have required lane 1 and 2 being truncated pretty much pushing more traffic on the other up's... so on the "no" spike the idea went, Liverpool St was not to be the new terminal lol
I think a high speed rail terminus at Surrey Quays, had it been built, would have also likely overloaded the East London line that stopped there.
But anyways, great video! Would love to see another one about this.
This takes me back to the happy days of about 1991 - working for the Museum of london in Surrey Docks (quays just sounds too posh), having lately relocated from tooley street. Travelling on the east london line ("Welcome to the people's republic of the east london line - mind the gap") and living in Deptford, Rotherhithe, peckham and suchlike places. Ah, the good old days.....
I remember the 1989 Docks/Quays name change - someone wrote on one of the posters announcing it, 'Another win for the Yuppies.'
Particularly enjoyed the Croydon gag
I lived in the Surrey Quays/Canada Water/Rotherhithe area for ten years, and this video gave me a great dose of nostalgia. I look forward to the new dedicated video on the subject.
0:50 WHAT? We absolutely want to hear that story!
And how old would Jago have been? Maybe even
Please do keep me updated. I used to work between Bermondsey and Rotherhithe, and I used to get my lunch at Surrey Quays shopping centre, and I would like to learn more about Surrey Quays
Up for my yearly (ish) jaunt on the tube soon, and thanks to you I'll be better able to appreciate it.
Cheers Jago
Given the way things turned out it's perhaps a good thing that the Surrey Quays International idea met its Waterloo. Putting aside capacity issues, St Mary's Curve could have been reopened to provide a direct connection to the Met/H&C and the District lines.
The Croydon comment...harsh, old boy, very harsh. But fair.
You are just simply brilliant!
I remember Surrey docks station in the days of Q stock!
All in my area - Rotherhithe... great video.
Ah Surrey Quays, one of the best areas of South east London by far 👌
my old area,now not there but do miss it.
@@richardeyers322 Same here 🥲
Surrey Docks when I was a kid.
Marples, who got money from Tarmac, naturally supported the Chunnel. Of course he didn't want any pesky rail connections. Instead he wanted a load of motorways servicing the Folkstone portal.
could you do a video on the original plan for HS1, which was to upgrade the SEML? Its a very interesting topic!
I've been to Croydon, and a tunnel remains a good idea.
When Croydon take you to court, I'll give you a good character reference. Reasonable fees.
Would love to see a video on the Surrey Quays station - that first shot of it in this video is really cool.
It would be nice to a video on the GWR branches and their history, mainly the marlow branch. (On a side note VERTICAL TAKEOFF CRAFTS? 😂)
what about the greenford branch
Craft*, the plural of craft is just craft, not crafts. i.e. "You have lots of hovercraft over there."
Like sheep.
@@SuliPlayz5264 The marlow branch has some history to it, as for greenford I don’t know
Maybe they were thinking of things like the Fairey Rotodyne. Aviation was rapidly advancing in the 50s, 60s and 70s
Oh that was a huge line of experimentation in the 1960s; VTOL airliners with lift jets, pivoting wings like the V-22 Osprey, helicopters that morphed into jets ... none of them ever got anywhere
Thanks
Brilliant and informative video sir.
19:19 Realistically, Jago, their next main priority should be an under river connection linking Thamesmead and Barking Riverside (where I was born some years ago now). It’d make so much sense 🤔
This reminded me of a new tunnel project between Silvertown & Greenwich that’s due to be completed in 2025, I think … but, having looked at the map, YOUR idea seems even MORE sensible!😉
At the time that Surrey Docks became Surrey Quays, there was a rumour that the new name was to honour the mistress of the then Secretary of State for Transport. (Nobody under 60 will remember that.)
I'm under 60 and AFAIK don't have Parkinson's.
I clicked on this as soon as I saw Surrey Quays
Attractive waterfront housing! You jest sir.
My local station! Saying hello from platform 1 as we speak.
@@spitfire1962 The very long pause after making that statement was telling I thought 😀
Surrey Quays or Deptford Road in earlier days would have been a fascinating place in the late Victorian era. The LBSCR, GER, Metropolitan and SER all used the line for a brief period. What a fascinatingly colourful railway it would have been. My friend and I considered making a model of the station once, so I'd love to see a video.
You were at the opening ceremony? Your quest to collect stock footage knows no bounds. Young Jago thought “I’ll go to the opening just in case I ever become a famous RUclipsr although I don’t know what that is, on the Internet, I know what that is and you need a 14.4 kBPS modem and to wait half an hour to download one webpage so i’m not sure how streaming video will ever work, but i’ll do it just in case”
Perhaps a good thing that it never happened as stations that formerly were served by the Eurostar ended up being half abandoned
Or not used for there original purpose - yes I'm looking at you Stratford International.....
@@paintedpilgrim yes, indeed
That's another story I'd like to hear. Poor old East London🤗
I still can’t get over the change of name from Surrey Docks to Surrey Quays.
Thank you for these videos.
I remember the proposed tunnel under Croydon as there was some concern at the time that it may have run under our house.
Croydon is an easy target for a cynical aside. However bad it was in the 1970's, it is much worse now..
Invited to an event 30 years ago!!! Is Jago putting knowledge gained in a first career to good use for the world???
Maps Jago! Maps. That's what is missing here. Maps
Okay… now I’m just stuck picturing the Imperial March played on car horns. That’s going to be bouncing around in my head the rest of the day, thanks for that…
I've only used the channel tunnel from Folkestone so missed the congested Southern experience. Some clear views of the sunny south London sky in this vid.
So happy to be your dedicated line.
oooh waiting on the kettle hang on ..... ok train time
😇😁😁
Or as a tongue-tied BBC announcer called it, Sorry Ducks.
5:37 hey! It's my favourite model from the N.R.M.! Such a weird look at what the Channel Tunnel link COULD have looked like...
Excellent viewing!
Enjoyed the remark about the best way of experiencing Croydon, and also the comparisons of Ernest Marples to Palpatine and Dr Beeching to Darth Vader (did Beeching repent on his death bed?), although it does make you wonder which sith lords you then assign to George Hudson and Charles Tyson Yerkes.
Back in the 1990s, when Surrey Quays was still served by the East London line, I worked on a scheme for London Regional Transport that would have seen the station at least partially rebuilt. This was planned in conjunction with a new road bridge over the railway which was required to facilitate a new road layout that the local authority, London Borough of Southwark, wanted to introduce. The road bridge would have been rebuilt to cross perpendicular to the railway tracks and the station frontage would have been on the bridge. The scheme never happened as the council failed to organise the necessary compulsory purchase orders for other parts of the scheme.
I remember Surrey Docks station being renamed Surrey Quays and was annoyed. Every London Underground map in London (and elsewhere in the UK) all had to be replaced, because of a shopping centre that really should have been called Surrey Docks Shopping Centre.
They needed to avoid confusion with the San Diego Supercomputer Cent"er".
Interesting on how things turn out!!! 🤔🚂🚂🚂
Please do a CHANNEL TUNNEL vid, Sir. Jago HAZZARD!!
go to nazi ukraine if you want to hear people to ignore you, reported
That "Cheerio!" - straight out of "Dixon of Dock Green". Mind how ya go...
Can't believe you've been filming right next to my house, need to pay more attention to people filming the swans 😂
Does that mean that my home town was part of the of the Galactic Empire and I never knew? Crikey, the stuff you learn in here...
Fascinating - I wonder how a terminus there would have changed that area…
Good morning Jago
If you wanted to put an international rail terminus in south-east London, the logical place would surely have been the Bricklayers' Arms depot. Would have required an extension to the Bakerloo Line, but the traffic would have easily justified it.
You should put maps on screen so everyone can see where these places are. Does anyone from outside London know where Surrey Quays is?
There was an easier solution here. SeaLink could have brought in high speed passenger only hydrofoils or hovercraft from a marine terminal at Surrey Quays. You'd jump on the hydrofoil / hovercraft, speed out down the Thames estuary, then across the channel, and transfer to a train once you reach France.
That's far more sensible than crazy schemes like trying to dig a tunnel under the channel, or build an airport or an Olympic venue in east London, none of which is ever likely to work. 😁
I used to live near there when it was Surrey.Docks station.
Love the Astérix reference!
If I may put it into Star Trek terms, Beeching was Weyoun to Marples’ Female Changeling? 🖖🏼
the road plan was to build a couple of artificial islands a mile or two into the Channel, then traffic would have accessed the tunnels using spiral ramps on these islands
it was called the EuroRoute, and for a plan developed in the early 80s it looked remarkably like something out of 50s sci-fi
it never got off the ground, mainly because the projected cost of it was around 5 times that of the Eurostar
That was the 1980s plan which was a competitor to the rail-only tunnel eventually adopted. The 1960s plan was a rail-only tunnel. When costs began spiralling in the 1970s they talked about going to single track and otherwise cutting costs, but it was too late and the (Labour) Government cancelled it.
Was Broad Street station ever considered as a Channel Tunnel terminus? In the 1970s, it was in decline and about a decade from closure. Broad Street had enough platform space to accommodate the CTRL. The CTRL could have joined the North London line at the end of the Kingsland Viaduct and pulled into Broad Street, or at least, whatever would be built on the Broad Street site. It could even have been an office tower, with the CTRL on the lower floors.
2:55 Was there another dock that served the Warner studios? like *Whats-Up Dock?* LOL😁
Good old Asterix etc.
New York, Paris, Croydon 😎
great JH
i was there today
Finnish and Norwegian churches are still in that area.
And a Swedish one.
Have you gotten yourself a new mic, Jago? Because your voiceover is more crisp and balanced than videos past in a way that implies more than just audio engineering. If so, a fine upgrade, worthy of the quality bar you've been setting.
I total forgot about this part of history
Was that last overground train running on DLR track? Underslung third rail; signalling wire. What have I missed?
This ended kinda abruptly. I was expecting more about the plans as they currently exist.
Are they building a new platform/exit at Surrey Quays? See a lot of construction work there.
They are - I have a video in the pipeline discussing this.
Imagine having a Eurostar station that terminated at Surrey Quays that it would provide a much better high speed service to France and Europe.
Please sir,have you anything on the Woolwich Arsenal railway (the one in the actual Arsenal) you could share with us?
What museum is that in the video? It looks interesting.
Now I've never heard, again.
At 5 mins in, very suspicious yellow liquid trail on the platform !!!
Ernest Marples, deeply involved with the road and motorway building firm of Marples-Ridgeway. What conflict of interest . . . ?
Seems incredible that White City and Surrey Docks/Quays were favourites as terminal sites. Never heard of connectivity? The East London line actually connected at Whitechapel as well (surprised nobody seems to have picked that up) but still remote and inconvenient. Waterloo, Victoria and now St Pancras are far better. As for Marples, he was more anti-lossmaking rail than anti-rail; the Govt supported Beeching and British Rail in developing Inter-City and Freightliner as well as culling a lot of useless branch lines and a few useful ones. The Channel Tunnel would fit into that philosophy fine. And where would Britain be today without its motorway network? It could have gone along the A5 and round the North Circular? Don't even think about it ...
Beeching?...... *Booooooooooo,, Hsssssssssssssss!!!!!* Definitely the *VILLAIN* here!
Victoria would've been a better choice than Waterloo as already had the closed off international platforms, 1 and 2, along with HMC and immigration facilities from the Night Ferry and Orient Express days.
With the benefit of hindsight, perhaps an international rail freight terminal would have been the best idea for Surrey Quays, keeping the same general industry in the area and enabling capacity for freight to come from the continent in the most efficient way. Much too forward-thinking for the 70s of course, when most freight yards had been or were to be closed.
Thanks Jago, talking of 'international' railway stations, aren't you forgetting that the first international terminus in London was Victoria, thanks to the Golden Arrow service? Frankly I can't see why stations have to be called international since, if we compare with the major stations on the Continent, many of which are used by international services, yet there's no need to name the station 'international'. So why do we have to do it?
Take yourself down to the museum of London docklands, good day out, free.