Degree of difficulty should be factored in. Brady is a nightmare to compare other QB's to on the simple fact he actually played and succeeded in both era's of football. Not to take away from todays QB's but instead show respect to players that achieved Superbowl wins, records, mvp's etc in era's where the game was just more tasking for QB's (other positions as well) but we are talking QB's. Brady unlike Joe, Peyton, John, and Patrick, who played in one era per say. Joe, Peyton, John all played in the" old era " and Patrick in the " new era ". With that being said, there should be a greatest of the old era and greatest of the new era, and Tom Brady being the goat of both. The top 5 should always be under Tom then split in 2 as old NFL and new NFL greats. Just saying
The stat which sticks out most for me is Mahomes number of post-season passing TDs. He's already 8th all time and only 5 TDs away from overtaking Peyton in 5th. To give that a bit of perspective Brady currently is way ahead of everyone on 88 at an average of just under 4 per season over a 23 year career and Montana next on 45 at an average of 3 per season. No-one else in the top ten averages over 3 per season apart from Mahomes who is on 35 at an average of 7 per season. Elway played 16 seasons and had a total of 27 passing TDs. Mahomes also already top 10 all time in post-season passing yards too.
That’s actually crazy! Also, for the first 5 seasons of his career he’s hosted AFC title games at Kansas City. That means HOME FIELD and you only get home field by dominating. His only losses are to a guy named Tom and a guy named Joe. Funny how the names are considering the Goat convo haha.
Umm Mahomes has 6 seasons so that average is wrong unless you’re counting when he didn’t start which means you have to take away Montana first two seasons. Also Montana has a strike season and two year he didn’t play because of the injury against the giants.
@@Cream-2128 Fair enough, I hadn't really drilled down into the details too much if I'm honest. Montana at 45 in 12 seasons would also be around 4 per season in that case which would make more sense. Either way it's still rare company up there. I wasn't trying to say he's better than all of those, for the record, I was just struck by the disparity in the numbers and the speed with which he's joined that list.
@@tonygonzalez9882 did you not see who Brady was throwing to wtf? Mahomes won a sb without knowing how to read a defense lmao that’s Brady strongest attribute
Manning is my favorite QB of all time. I'm glad he still gets a ton of love in this conversation and isn't automatically passed by Mahomes like so many other greats.
I'm glad acho gave props to marino, i know he never won a super bowl and that is a big knock but he's still a top five qb to me because of what he was capable of doing, he has one of the fastest if not the fastest release of qbs all time i think and its annoying hes so underrated i even had a friend tell me favre was better then him
What is absolutely stunning is this, Mahomes with 6 full seasons and 5 as a starter is already a consensus HOFer. Who are QB’s that you would consider worthy of the hall in their first 6 seasons?
I think 4 is definitely a great place for Patrick Mahomes because of the fact that he's accomplished a great deal in the first 5 years of him starting. In the 5 years he's started, he's never had a losing season, he's had 3 4000 yd+ passing seasons, he's had 2 5000 yd+ passing seasons, he's lead the league in touchdowns 2 times, everyone season he's played his team has been in the AFC Championship and or the Super Bowl, he's 2-1 in the Super Bowl, and he has two Super Bowl MVP's. I would definitely put him ahead of Brett Favre, Johnny Unitas, Dan Marino
Whether or not he'll surpass Brady should be a different discussion for another day, the point is he has been very exceptional in only a short amount of time and he's already worthy of the Pro Football Hall Of Fame. There isn't any active quarterback in the game currently that could serve as his contemporary.
@MasterShake89 Brett Favre was also turnover prone and only won a Super Bowl although, does one more MVP than Mahomes. However, I would still take Patrick over him any day because Patrick is clutch in big moments.
What a refreshing discussion that involves actual sound talking points and evidence to support them! Other sports talk shows should take note. It's tough, but I think my top 5 right now would be 1) Otto Graham 2) Joe Montana 3) Peyton Manning 4) Tom Brady 5) Patrick Mahomes And there are a lot of people that would quibble with that list and I'm fine with that. My reasoning is fairly simple, though. Otto Graham, when compared to his peers both statistically and in terms of championships/accolades, is the best quarterback of all time. Like Tom Brady, he played in 10 championship games and won 7 of them, but unlike Brady he did so in 10 consecutive seasons while also putting up as-yet-unheard-of regular season statistics pretty much every year he played. I have Joe Montana second because he similarly had never-before-seen success in both the regular season and postseason, becoming the first player ever to win multiple regular-season MVPs and multiple Super Bowl MVPs, and he compiled in 1989 what is probably the best postseason of any quarterback ever. Most of his postseason records have been surpassed only by Tom Brady. Peyton Manning is third on the back of his record 5 MVPs, 7 1st-team All-Pro selections, 4 Super Bowl appearances, 2 Super Bowl victories, and putting up a candidate for the greatest regular season ever played by a quarterback in two different uniforms-once with the Colts in 2004 and once with the Broncos in 2013 after a miraculous recovery from neck/spine surgery. My assessment of Tom Brady at fourth is probably the most controversial part of the list. But while he might have been on 7 Super Bowl winning teams, he did not put up great statistical performances in the majority of Super Bowls he played in, often winning them in spite of his own mediocrity. And while he holds a lot of counting-stat records, he mostly does so on account of his nearly unprecedented longevity, with his 2007 season the pinnacle of his personal statistical resume. Having 7 rings and 3 MVPs is absolutely nothing to sneeze at, though, and it would be hard to argue that he wasn't one of the smartest to ever play, which is why I've put him over all but three other quarterbacks on the all-time list. Then I've got Patrick Mahomes in fifth, over John Elway, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, or anybody else you could name here, and the reason is because he's accomplished in 6 (really 5) seasons what only the guys above him on this list have ever done, i.e. win multiple championships and multiple MVP awards. He's got every trait you could possibly ever want in a quarterback, from otherworldly arm talent to insane work ethic to deadly accuracy to clutch stability, and without tooting his own horn even when he absolutely deserves it. His best moments are among the best ever, and his worst would still be a great day for half the quarterbacks in the league. But he doesn't yet have the career body of work that would put him higher than any of the four players I have above him.
Joy, smh. John Elway had thrown 95 interceptions when he finally threw his 100th TD pass. PM had 19. Smashed the league record. I think next closest is Rodgers with like 34 or something, and there's a big gap between him and number three as well. It's not close. He's 3 or 4 right now and can move up to 2 next year imo if he repeats what he did this year.
Yeah, those are solid points, I concur. However, the numbers are so skewed nowadays in favor of the offense, and also, Mahomes is perhaps second to only Manning when it comes to the offensive situation he was drafted in. Once you take those two things into account, it's nowhere nearly as mind boggling as it is prima facie.
YOu forget Elway literally carried 3 teams on his back to the super bowl no run game no probowl wideouts and a coach would punt every 4th and 1 every time. Put Mahomes a team like that without andy reid massive Oline talent and wide receivers at their becking call and its whole other mahomes. Elway is the greatest for that reason alone he did the most with the least. Then he got a talented team with Shannahan and he goes 39-9 from 96-98... John Elway is the most talented QB to ever play the game period
My list is 1.Brady(which pains me to say cause I hate him, but what’s right is right) 2. Peyton Manning 3.Patrick Mahomes 4.Montana 5.Brett Favre/Elway/Rodgers/Brees/Unitas/Marino…. At that point I think it becomes preference. There’s a lot of guys that you could throw on that 5th spot.But with the top 4 I don’t think there’s much arguments that could be made. Mahomes for only being in the league a short amount of time, already has as many Supwrbowl wins, and appearances than most of those guys. His numbers are better than most if you compare each first 6 seasons. When it’s all said and done and without any horrible injuries Mahomes could possibly pass Brady as the GOAT. He really is that good. And it’s crazy to even think anyone could have a chance so soon to take that title from Brady, but if anyone has a shot, I think it’s Patrick Mahomes. I think he could go to less superbowls than Brady, and still win just as many!! Going to be exciting to see what will happen with him!!
Who isn't nowadays. HoF is a joke now. There's so many people enamored with stats that they don't realize how much easier it is to get those stats. What we should value is consistency and winning. There's lots of talented players in the league, but talent alone should not make you a HoFer.
People absolutely hold it against LeBron getting to the finals and losing. What is Joy talking about? Nick Wright is the only person that says 10 finals appearances. Everyone else says 4-6, which I think is stupid. Losing in the final should be viewed as better than losing earlier or not making the playoffs.
It’s not gonna be valued the same as winning championships. Nick and Bron fans try to make it seem like getting to the finals is at the same level as winning the chip. Saying losing in the finals is better than losing in the first round is true to an extent, but both parties still lost in the end.
@@kojirod.dragon3724 I didn't say it should be valued as much as winning championships but people act like 4-0 would be better than 4-6. In that case, they're actually docking for the finals loses and giving a pass for first round loses.
@@drexeldragon1723 He gets docked cause not only is he being compared to Jordan who never lost in the finals and has 6 rings in less time, No one is crowned the Greatest of anything losing more championships then they've been to. Lebron's finals appearances are only a plus when you're comparing him to a Kobe for example. Kobe has 5 rings but you can use the fact that Lebron has 4 finals MVPs to his 2 and has led his team to more
I think Mahomes needs at least 2 more rings and 2 more MVPs for us to really have a legitimate discussion between him and Brady. I personally think he'll at least get to 5 rings before it's over but I don't think he's reaching 7 or passing 7 given how talented this league is. Chiefs are dominant, but Cincinnati has proven they can beat them, Buffalo has proven they can beat them (with a little more consistency) and Jacksonville is coming.
As a kc fan I agree with u but tbh their biggest rivals who annoyed then is the Bengals more than the bills. I feel like the bills are one of the top team who has smt to prove but yes I can see mahomes with 4 possibly but higher right now is hard to picture 🤣 but if mahomes would retire right now he's a top 3 Hall of Famer for me
To be fair though Jacksonville is not a threat right now to beat the Chiefs in the postseason they can't even beat them in the regular-season either. The Bills have never beaten them in the postseason but they are more likely than the Jags. The Bengles only beat them once I the postseason in two tries which is actually pretty good but it took a meltdown for that to happen and the two regular-season wins are impressive but one of those came with a myriad of penalties on the last drive of the game for the Bengals to win. The second one took a fumble by Kelce when the Chiefs were driving late to go up to scores it was potentially a 14-point swing and essentially won them the game. They're not going to get a break like that every time they play. The Chiefs in the playoffs had no business winning that Bengals game with all of those injuries but they still won because they were the better team. I think it's fair to say that the Chiefs are still the best team in the AFC the Bengals will not be beating them as often as they did because it was an anomaly.
@bradleyhoward9638 exactly kc rlly played good. It's crazy how are downgrading kc. Bengals always wins by 3 and we never lose by 7 pts it's hard to beat kc they're my team but ik that we are a threat to others. We lost app those game or had rlly close games due to a turnover
I feel like already being a top 5 QB ever, is a pretty big complement.. Putting him at 2 seems like you’re being a prisoner of the moment. I think one thing Pat hold that adds to his legacy is that he changed the game of football. He changed the way people view arm talent. Brady and Manning can’t really say they did that.
He didnt change the game of football lmao. Hes a great player but no one changed their style just because of mahomes. Manning is the greatest to ever play the qb position he also holds the passing record for a season. Your fanboying over him a little to hard there. Brady is the goat manning is the greatest at the position entirely
@@tonygonzalez9882 He meant to say that Mahomes does things with his arm that no else has done before which is why he's changed the game. Absolutely he did. Otherwise you're biased. I would say Manning did audible a lot with his mind and you could argue he changed the game then too. So you guys are both correct. But you cant deny Mahomes did too
@@tonygonzalez9882 I’m literally an Eagles fan you clown 🤣 If you don’t think Mahomes changed football, then you don’t know what you’re talking about… Kids like Zach Wilson get drafted 2nd overall just because his arm talent resembles Mahomes in a pre-draft workout. The current Heisman winner gets compared to Mahomes because he can make crazy throws from all different angles.. Calling me a fanboy after calling Manning the greatest to ever play QB is HILARIOUS… Tom could throw half his rings in the trash and he would STILL have more rings than Manning. Manning was literally worthless his last year in Denver 9TD’s to 17INT’s…….. Tom just put up almost 5k yards and 27 TD’s at 45 years old. You’re talking about Peyton Manning being the greatest ever, even though was All-Pro 11 times in his prime but only got 1 ring in those 11 years 🤣🤣 You have no idea what you’re talking about kid..
@Tony Gonzalez Peyton Manning is 2nd all time on my list behind Brady. But Peyton isn't the goat or the greatest to ever play the position mostly bc of what he did or didn't do in the biggest games in the playoffs. However he did change the game of football bc of what he was doing at the line of scrimmage with audibles, and reading and dissecting defenses. I can make an extremely strong case for Unitas, Montana, and Brady as the only other players besides Peyton Manning in NFL history to change the game of football at the QB position. Marino, Rodgers, Elway, and Mahomes are all time great talents with elite arms.
I like this discussion. Mahomes is an all time talent, but he’s got much further to go to be the best we’ve ever seen. He’s got the chance tho. Manning gets disrespected because he has 2 rings but 5 mvps 2 rings is pretty good. Montana under mahomes is insane
Manning doesn’t get disrespected, but he does tend to be undervalued. But that’s because at the peak of his powers he only won one Super Bowl. His other Super Bowl win he was barely a shadow of his former self and war carried by the Bronco’s defense.
Yeah if Maholmes played in a league with a young Brady and a Primed Patriots team he would be the one with Mannings numbers and if Manning came into the league as a colt at the Tail end of Brady’s career HED BE THE ONE we’re giving all this praise too now. And the AFC was loaded with defensive units. When have we even seen safeties a like POLAMALU or ED REED!? so if you finally get over the patriots or colts you become the lucky one to deal with Hall of Fame defenses. Or your barely coming off a win over them and have to head to Foxborrow and change your entire play style.
@@CalebJohnston I think his point is defenses aren’t nearly as tough as they used to be. Safety’s and cbs used to be glamor spots, now those athletes all end up wrs since the money is there and rules favor it
Right if he ends his career with 4 or 5 rings, I’d be okay with that. He doesn’t have to prove anything to me as a Chiefs fan. Absouletely nothing. This guy is already the greatest Chiefs quarterback ever.
Not bad lists by these guys but here's the real top 10 all time: 1. Brady 2. Montana 3. Manning 4. Elway 5. Unitas 6. Mahomes 7. Favre 8. Marino 9. Rodgers 10. Brees Guys like Bradshaw, Aikman, Roelisthberger, and Eli have multiple SB rings but were never really in the convo for best QB during the time they played thats why they aren't top 10 all time.
I guess if Mahomes duplicates his first five seasons, that would put him at 4 Super Bowls, 4 Super Bowl MVP’s, 4 MVP’s, 10 pro Bowls, 6 all pro’s, 6 Super Bowl appearances, and the leader in every stat ever. If that happens, then the goat conversion can start happening. Until then, Brady is the best but Mahomes will catch him.
@Johnny Ramirez people value rings over everything, Elways had the best RB during his superbowl stretch. Marino had a no run game and worse Oline and put up better numbers
@James Woodson buddy he threw 48 TD's in an era 25 TDs was looked at as good. No you need atleast 30 TDs or you're underachieving. He would have won atleast 4 rings in this era
As a huge Mahomes fan I would say that Mahomes is a top 10 to 15 quarterback of all time just out of respect for the other all time quarterbacks in nfl history
Big Ben was younger than Mahomes when he won his first SB. No doubt Mahomes is great and has put together an MVP career already, but he's not top five all time.
I'm not saying Patrick Holmes is a bad player but nobody wants to talk about the 31 to 9 loss to the buccaneers in the super bowl I understand it was the buccaneers backyard but four quarters he couldn't even make a touchdown
There's no maybe with Peyton Mahomes is currently in the 4 spot staring up at Peyton. Now he can easily pass up Peyton but he isn't currently better, he simply hasn't accomplished enough yet.
@@Raven.Bloodrot How Mahomes steering up at Peyton??? Mahomes has surpassed Peyton in virtually all QB ratings and has equal the Super Bowl wins in less time.
Joy's list is pretty great. And weirdly people forget about John Elway. Elway and Mahomes are remarkably similar. Elway was a mobile qb with a canon arm. Mahomes is the same. The difference is Elway had little to no talent and still made it to super bowls but lost. Mahomes has had the benefit of talent and has won, for the most part.
Maholmes was in 3 of the past 4 Super Bowls. 2-1 Brady (since the BUCS win) was in 4 of the last 5 super bowls. 3-1 If Maholmes can win 1 next season I think he will prove something really special.
That don't wash, Gayle Sayers played and got hurt, Sandy Kofax played and got hurt. If Mahomes win two more Superbowls and got hurt, he wouldn have longevity would you penalize him for that?
Wait will had Mahomes #2 but said he can only pass Brady if he wins 7 or 8 super bowls cause that’s all that matters. But than he has Mahomes over Montana. Make that make sense.
Hated Bradshaw growing up. He kept beating the Cowboys. Bradshaw definitely deserves more respect. He was big time when it mattered. I would have him in the top 4 QBs of all time.
If Mahomes reaches 5 SB wins by his 12th year as a starter and receives 3 or 4 league MVPs by then as well I’ll put him as the greatest. It took Brady 13 years to get his 4th ring and a full 20 years to get his 7th SB win.
IMO the list is: 1. Brady 2. Montana 3. Manning 4. Mahomes 5. A few different guys could be here I agree with Joy and Dave 100% that we can't just project Mahomes career. Do I think he'll get more? Yes but longevity is real. None of us want to see anything happen but it always could. Also, nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. I think the AFC is going to be the hardest it's ever been next year and moving forward.
Brady had to compete with Manning, Rodgers, LT, AP, Shaun Alexander, and other great QB seasons (Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Mahomes, Lamar Jackson) to compete with to win MVP votes, and unfairly lost a lot of them due to either historic performances (especially the RBs) and the despise for New England winning individual awards or TD-INT ratio (LMAO). And now, who does Mahomes have to compete with? Brady had to sacrifice his stats due to the philosophy of the Patriots plus the lack of elite skill position talent in majority of his career.
Don Shula is credited for his undefeated season, but he should also be criticized for never winning a SB despite having Dan Marino. That's like having Mahomes and never winning a SB.
As great a competitor and qb that Brady was, I don’t think people really consider how special Belichek’s teams were. That alone gave Brady an incredible edge! Still great though
All I ask from Acho is to be consistent….you can’t harp on Herbert and the Talent that hasn’t done anything really but have Marino number 5 all time and base your argument off of talent
Top 5 is tough. 1. Brady 2. Montana 3. Peyton 4. Mahomes 5 is tough for me, I like Marino, but Elway has the accomplishments. Aaron should be 5, but he's not been overall clutch in the playoffs. I think Mahomes will end up 3, possibly higher but Montana and Brady's greatness is hard to pass.
This is why ppl don't take what players who played say serious. You can't sit there and say Pat has to get to 7 or 8 to pass Brady...BUT have the gall to say he's already passed Montana who has 4 rings and is undefeated with no INTs... smh
We have to consider Tom Brady's division at the time he played. He had the Buffalo Bills when They were not a very good team, he had the Green Bay Packers that are still building right now and today we're not good. Then, he had the Miami Dolphins that were struggling at the time Division matters in my point of you!
Since no one seems to want to appreciate football history, here’s the correct top QBs all time (Top 10) 1. Tom Brady 2. Peyton Manning 3. Joe Montana 4. Johnny Unitas 5. Dan Marino 6. Aaron Rodgers 7. Drew Brees 8. Patrick Mahomes 9. Brett Farve 10. Roger Staubach
This is so weird. Wins matter not entertainment. Then we can compare the Harlem Globetrotters versus the NBA. So are the Harlem Globetrotters better than the NBA players? No
Aikman might have 3 rings but he has NEVER been considered one of the greatest of all time. He’s an example of why you just can’t count the number of rings a player has when talking about the greatest. He was very good, but not transcendent.
@@CalebJohnston Please stop talking. Your subjectivity on this subject is weird. And it’s clouding any type of real substance. Any QB who wins the MVP 4 times is not trash. What are we even talking about?
I'd say Brady winning four super bowls in his late 30's/early 40's is more impressive than winning several super bowls in your physical prime. Also Mahomes lost the big head to head match ups with Brady. The kid has a shot and deserves the hype but it'll be 10-15 years before we have any kind of outcome.
Brady's longevity is amazing. I would think Mahomes' goal is mainly to get past the other guys with 2 rings. He has already had a pretty awesome career so far and locked for the Hall of Fame even if he quits tomorrow. Everything else is just icing on the cake for him.
nah mahomes dont need 7 if these next 5 yrs ye duplicate what he's dont these past 5 yrs 2 SB 2SMVP 2mvps than im sorry he's the GOAT cuz lets be real brady 1st ring he was a average QB a game manager like they first 3 rings they were led by defense and wit the chiefs its Mahomes leading them the whole way since his 1st game
Only reason Peyton isn't 1 is cause of rings. Because outside of that?!?! He was the best. People bring up Curry and how he's changed the game and don't understand how much Peyton should get that same respect for how he changed the QB position and Football in general. He always had a bottom 30 defense and the times he didn't, he made it to the superbowl. He Should at least have 2 more MVPs and All Pros. The way the game is played today and even the rule changes to help it stay that way or enhance it all starts with Peyton Manning. That's a fact
Acho you gotta understand how insane it is that you reiterate your list while the giant screen behind you has your list showing. stop repeating yourself please. stop repeating yourself please.
Why are superbowls ( a team accomplishment ) used when judging best qbs? Peyton was benched in the year he won a Super Bowl, Eli has more superbowls than Marino and Rodgers. Can we stop acting like sbs is the determining factor
Brady got to do something Jordan and Montana didn't get to do...defend his legacy against the next generation's version of himself. Mahomes beat Brady a couple times in the regular season but every time they met in the playoffs, Brady took trophies away from Mahomes in championship games. For that reason, I just don't see how Mahomes ever overtakes Brady as the GOAT
This is an unfair conversation because you were considering quarterbacks that have completed their careers and staff that how many seasons a quarterback has played should be a relevant because just like they stated they don’t know how long he’ll play for with the rules that are in place wouldn’t you assume he would play longer regardless of waiting and seeing the rules are there for quarterbacks to play in the NFL longer everybody would agree with that, so making an argument that somebody had played for a longer career is pretty bias you shouldn’t consider that
Listen to The Skip Bayless Show podcast: sprtspod.fox/SkipBaylessShowPodcast
Degree of difficulty should be factored in. Brady is a nightmare to compare other QB's to on the simple fact he actually played and succeeded in both era's of football. Not to take away from todays QB's but instead show respect to players that achieved Superbowl wins, records, mvp's etc in era's where the game was just more tasking for QB's (other positions as well) but we are talking QB's. Brady unlike Joe, Peyton, John, and Patrick, who played in one era per say. Joe, Peyton, John all played in the" old era " and Patrick in the " new era ". With that being said, there should be a greatest of the old era and greatest of the new era, and Tom Brady being the goat of both. The top 5 should always be under Tom then split in 2 as old NFL and new NFL greats. Just saying
Manning is overrated an used to get smashed in the playoffs as well and the defense got him his 2nd super bowl win
Montana
Brady
Elway
Maholmes
Marino
Too soon. He could have a career ending injury next year. Stop it. Can we wait until the players are nearly done. Before we have these talks....
The fact that we can legitimately have this discussion 5 years into a players career is unheard of
Absolutely except for a few Legends.
I’m rooting for dude man, if anyone can catch Brady it’s this guy and this guy only
Young legend!
Facts it’s just crazy
Right! If he is top 5,4,3,2 it is unheard of. Hi. Just being in the top 5
The stat which sticks out most for me is Mahomes number of post-season passing TDs. He's already 8th all time and only 5 TDs away from overtaking Peyton in 5th. To give that a bit of perspective Brady currently is way ahead of everyone on 88 at an average of just under 4 per season over a 23 year career and Montana next on 45 at an average of 3 per season. No-one else in the top ten averages over 3 per season apart from Mahomes who is on 35 at an average of 7 per season. Elway played 16 seasons and had a total of 27 passing TDs. Mahomes also already top 10 all time in post-season passing yards too.
That’s actually crazy! Also, for the first 5 seasons of his career he’s hosted AFC title games at Kansas City. That means HOME FIELD and you only get home field by dominating. His only losses are to a guy named Tom and a guy named Joe. Funny how the names are considering the Goat convo haha.
Yes you are 1000% right!!!! Will has the best list. Joys argument is ridiculous
Umm Mahomes has 6 seasons so that average is wrong unless you’re counting when he didn’t start which means you have to take away Montana first two seasons. Also Montana has a strike season and two year he didn’t play because of the injury against the giants.
Exactly 👍
@@Cream-2128 Fair enough, I hadn't really drilled down into the details too much if I'm honest. Montana at 45 in 12 seasons would also be around 4 per season in that case which would make more sense. Either way it's still rare company up there. I wasn't trying to say he's better than all of those, for the record, I was just struck by the disparity in the numbers and the speed with which he's joined that list.
I got Mahomes at 3.
He theew for 5k in his first season as a starter.
Crazy.
Same. Right behind Montana
Brady did that in his 40’s its easier now. Manning still has the passing record over mahomes
@@tonygonzalez9882 did you not see who Brady was throwing to wtf? Mahomes won a sb without knowing how to read a defense lmao that’s Brady strongest attribute
@Udonome nah i have him at 4 he still needs 2 more mvps to pass manning
Manning is my favorite QB of all time. I'm glad he still gets a ton of love in this conversation and isn't automatically passed by Mahomes like so many other greats.
He’s lowkey better than Brady 2 me. Peyton just had belichick (one of the greatest d coordinators ever) game planning against him.
He should be
I'm glad acho gave props to marino, i know he never won a super bowl and that is a big knock but he's still a top five qb to me because of what he was capable of doing, he has one of the fastest if not the fastest release of qbs all time i think and its annoying hes so underrated i even had a friend tell me favre was better then him
What is absolutely stunning is this, Mahomes with 6 full seasons and 5 as a starter is already a consensus HOFer. Who are QB’s that you would consider worthy of the hall in their first 6 seasons?
not tom thats for sure
Tom had 3 super bowls by season 6, what do you mean?
@Aaron Bacher And absolutely no stats to go with those 3 wins... check em. Brady would've been borderline HOFer.
Its a pass friendly league now
@@tonygonzalez9882 not according to Vrabel
I think 4 is definitely a great place for Patrick Mahomes because of the fact that he's accomplished a great deal in the first 5 years of him starting. In the 5 years he's started, he's never had a losing season, he's had 3 4000 yd+ passing seasons, he's had 2 5000 yd+ passing seasons, he's lead the league in touchdowns 2 times, everyone season he's played his team has been in the AFC Championship and or the Super Bowl, he's 2-1 in the Super Bowl, and he has two Super Bowl MVP's. I would definitely put him ahead of Brett Favre, Johnny Unitas, Dan Marino
Whether or not he'll surpass Brady should be a different discussion for another day, the point is he has been very exceptional in only a short amount of time and he's already worthy of the Pro Football Hall Of Fame. There isn't any active quarterback in the game currently that could serve as his contemporary.
@MasterShake89 Brett Favre was also turnover prone and only won a Super Bowl although, does one more MVP than Mahomes. However, I would still take Patrick over him any day because Patrick is clutch in big moments.
Montana is the greatest. Give him and Jerry TODAYS RULES and those west coast offense 49ers win 8 titles.
Favre, Marino, and Unitas don't belong in the top five though.
He should be above Manning with those stats.
Achos top 5 is solid
What a refreshing discussion that involves actual sound talking points and evidence to support them! Other sports talk shows should take note.
It's tough, but I think my top 5 right now would be
1) Otto Graham
2) Joe Montana
3) Peyton Manning
4) Tom Brady
5) Patrick Mahomes
And there are a lot of people that would quibble with that list and I'm fine with that. My reasoning is fairly simple, though.
Otto Graham, when compared to his peers both statistically and in terms of championships/accolades, is the best quarterback of all time. Like Tom Brady, he played in 10 championship games and won 7 of them, but unlike Brady he did so in 10 consecutive seasons while also putting up as-yet-unheard-of regular season statistics pretty much every year he played.
I have Joe Montana second because he similarly had never-before-seen success in both the regular season and postseason, becoming the first player ever to win multiple regular-season MVPs and multiple Super Bowl MVPs, and he compiled in 1989 what is probably the best postseason of any quarterback ever. Most of his postseason records have been surpassed only by Tom Brady.
Peyton Manning is third on the back of his record 5 MVPs, 7 1st-team All-Pro selections, 4 Super Bowl appearances, 2 Super Bowl victories, and putting up a candidate for the greatest regular season ever played by a quarterback in two different uniforms-once with the Colts in 2004 and once with the Broncos in 2013 after a miraculous recovery from neck/spine surgery.
My assessment of Tom Brady at fourth is probably the most controversial part of the list. But while he might have been on 7 Super Bowl winning teams, he did not put up great statistical performances in the majority of Super Bowls he played in, often winning them in spite of his own mediocrity. And while he holds a lot of counting-stat records, he mostly does so on account of his nearly unprecedented longevity, with his 2007 season the pinnacle of his personal statistical resume. Having 7 rings and 3 MVPs is absolutely nothing to sneeze at, though, and it would be hard to argue that he wasn't one of the smartest to ever play, which is why I've put him over all but three other quarterbacks on the all-time list.
Then I've got Patrick Mahomes in fifth, over John Elway, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, Dan Marino, or anybody else you could name here, and the reason is because he's accomplished in 6 (really 5) seasons what only the guys above him on this list have ever done, i.e. win multiple championships and multiple MVP awards. He's got every trait you could possibly ever want in a quarterback, from otherworldly arm talent to insane work ethic to deadly accuracy to clutch stability, and without tooting his own horn even when he absolutely deserves it. His best moments are among the best ever, and his worst would still be a great day for half the quarterbacks in the league. But he doesn't yet have the career body of work that would put him higher than any of the four players I have above him.
Joy, smh. John Elway had thrown 95 interceptions when he finally threw his 100th TD pass. PM had 19. Smashed the league record. I think next closest is Rodgers with like 34 or something, and there's a big gap between him and number three as well. It's not close. He's 3 or 4 right now and can move up to 2 next year imo if he repeats what he did this year.
Solid points
She horrible man.
Yeah, those are solid points, I concur. However, the numbers are so skewed nowadays in favor of the offense, and also, Mahomes is perhaps second to only Manning when it comes to the offensive situation he was drafted in. Once you take those two things into account, it's nowhere nearly as mind boggling as it is prima facie.
YOu forget Elway literally carried 3 teams on his back to the super bowl no run game no probowl wideouts and a coach would punt every 4th and 1 every time. Put Mahomes a team like that without andy reid massive Oline talent and wide receivers at their becking call and its whole other mahomes. Elway is the greatest for that reason alone he did the most with the least. Then he got a talented team with Shannahan and he goes 39-9 from 96-98... John Elway is the most talented QB to ever play the game period
@@davidpadilla8400 Elway had 95 interceptions by the time he threw his 100th td pass. Mahomes had 19. Next.
She keep talking about 6 season he started in5 tho …
That's because she has zero value other than her looks. She brings no more insight than the average football fan and zero knowledge of the game.
Elway is because of Terrell Davis, something Marino didn't have.
My list is
1.Brady(which pains me to say cause I hate him, but what’s right is right)
2. Peyton Manning
3.Patrick Mahomes
4.Montana
5.Brett Favre/Elway/Rodgers/Brees/Unitas/Marino….
At that point I think it becomes preference. There’s a lot of guys that you could throw on that 5th spot.But with the top 4 I don’t think there’s much arguments that could be made. Mahomes for only being in the league a short amount of time, already has as many Supwrbowl wins, and appearances than most of those guys. His numbers are better than most if you compare each first 6 seasons. When it’s all said and done and without any horrible injuries Mahomes could possibly pass Brady as the GOAT. He really is that good. And it’s crazy to even think anyone could have a chance so soon to take that title from Brady, but if anyone has a shot, I think it’s Patrick Mahomes. I think he could go to less superbowls than Brady, and still win just as many!! Going to be exciting to see what will happen with him!!
Emmanuel great call with Dan Marino. Ray Finkle...Laces....Out!!
If he retires today, Patrick Mahomes is a 1st ballot Hall of Famer
No doubt
Who isn't nowadays. HoF is a joke now. There's so many people enamored with stats that they don't realize how much easier it is to get those stats. What we should value is consistency and winning. There's lots of talented players in the league, but talent alone should not make you a HoFer.
@@sonikspeed19 you’re right… I seen morons like Dan Orlovsky saying Mathew Stanford is a HOFer
@@goaltcutz148 Stafford is borderline but his case took a step back this season...We might have seen the last of Stafford being any good
…but still not top 5 today.
Even tho he's having great Sucess right now but this should be done when he retires he just now in his prime
People absolutely hold it against LeBron getting to the finals and losing. What is Joy talking about? Nick Wright is the only person that says 10 finals appearances. Everyone else says 4-6, which I think is stupid. Losing in the final should be viewed as better than losing earlier or not making the playoffs.
It’s not gonna be valued the same as winning championships. Nick and Bron fans try to make it seem like getting to the finals is at the same level as winning the chip. Saying losing in the finals is better than losing in the first round is true to an extent, but both parties still lost in the end.
@@kojirod.dragon3724 I didn't say it should be valued as much as winning championships but people act like 4-0 would be better than 4-6. In that case, they're actually docking for the finals loses and giving a pass for first round loses.
@@drexeldragon1723 He gets docked cause not only is he being compared to Jordan who never lost in the finals and has 6 rings in less time, No one is crowned the Greatest of anything losing more championships then they've been to. Lebron's finals appearances are only a plus when you're comparing him to a Kobe for example. Kobe has 5 rings but you can use the fact that Lebron has 4 finals MVPs to his 2 and has led his team to more
I think Mahomes needs at least 2 more rings and 2 more MVPs for us to really have a legitimate discussion between him and Brady. I personally think he'll at least get to 5 rings before it's over but I don't think he's reaching 7 or passing 7 given how talented this league is. Chiefs are dominant, but Cincinnati has proven they can beat them, Buffalo has proven they can beat them (with a little more consistency) and Jacksonville is coming.
As a kc fan I agree with u but tbh their biggest rivals who annoyed then is the Bengals more than the bills. I feel like the bills are one of the top team who has smt to prove but yes I can see mahomes with 4 possibly but higher right now is hard to picture 🤣 but if mahomes would retire right now he's a top 3 Hall of Famer for me
I can agree with this. He can get to 4 or 5 imo
To be fair though Jacksonville is not a threat right now to beat the Chiefs in the postseason they can't even beat them in the regular-season either. The Bills have never beaten them in the postseason but they are more likely than the Jags. The Bengles only beat them once I the postseason in two tries which is actually pretty good but it took a meltdown for that to happen and the two regular-season wins are impressive but one of those came with a myriad of penalties on the last drive of the game for the Bengals to win. The second one took a fumble by Kelce when the Chiefs were driving late to go up to scores it was potentially a 14-point swing and essentially won them the game. They're not going to get a break like that every time they play. The Chiefs in the playoffs had no business winning that Bengals game with all of those injuries but they still won because they were the better team. I think it's fair to say that the Chiefs are still the best team in the AFC the Bengals will not be beating them as often as they did because it was an anomaly.
@bradleyhoward9638 exactly kc rlly played good. It's crazy how are downgrading kc. Bengals always wins by 3 and we never lose by 7 pts it's hard to beat kc they're my team but ik that we are a threat to others. We lost app those game or had rlly close games due to a turnover
I feel like already being a top 5 QB ever, is a pretty big complement.. Putting him at 2 seems like you’re being a prisoner of the moment.
I think one thing Pat hold that adds to his legacy is that he changed the game of football. He changed the way people view arm talent. Brady and Manning can’t really say they did that.
He didnt change the game of football lmao. Hes a great player but no one changed their style just because of mahomes. Manning is the greatest to ever play the qb position he also holds the passing record for a season. Your fanboying over him a little to hard there. Brady is the goat manning is the greatest at the position entirely
@@tonygonzalez9882 He meant to say that Mahomes does things with his arm that no else has done before which is why he's changed the game. Absolutely he did. Otherwise you're biased. I would say Manning did audible a lot with his mind and you could argue he changed the game then too. So you guys are both correct. But you cant deny Mahomes did too
@@tonygonzalez9882 I’m literally an Eagles fan you clown 🤣
If you don’t think Mahomes changed football, then you don’t know what you’re talking about… Kids like Zach Wilson get drafted 2nd overall just because his arm talent resembles Mahomes in a pre-draft workout. The current Heisman winner gets compared to Mahomes because he can make crazy throws from all different angles..
Calling me a fanboy after calling Manning the greatest to ever play QB is HILARIOUS… Tom could throw half his rings in the trash and he would STILL have more rings than Manning. Manning was literally worthless his last year in Denver 9TD’s to 17INT’s…….. Tom just put up almost 5k yards and 27 TD’s at 45 years old.
You’re talking about Peyton Manning being the greatest ever, even though was All-Pro 11 times in his prime but only got 1 ring in those 11 years 🤣🤣
You have no idea what you’re talking about kid..
Brady and Manning became OC’s reading defenses like a book. They brought that next level, which changed the game.
@Tony Gonzalez Peyton Manning is 2nd all time on my list behind Brady. But Peyton isn't the goat or the greatest to ever play the position mostly bc of what he did or didn't do in the biggest games in the playoffs. However he did change the game of football bc of what he was doing at the line of scrimmage with audibles, and reading and dissecting defenses. I can make an extremely strong case for Unitas, Montana, and Brady as the only other players besides Peyton Manning in NFL history to change the game of football at the QB position. Marino, Rodgers, Elway, and Mahomes are all time great talents with elite arms.
I like this discussion. Mahomes is an all time talent, but he’s got much further to go to be the best we’ve ever seen. He’s got the chance tho. Manning gets disrespected because he has 2 rings but 5 mvps 2 rings is pretty good. Montana under mahomes is insane
Manning doesn’t get disrespected, but he does tend to be undervalued. But that’s because at the peak of his powers he only won one Super Bowl. His other Super Bowl win he was barely a shadow of his former self and war carried by the Bronco’s defense.
Yeah if Maholmes played in a league with a young Brady and a Primed Patriots team he would be the one with Mannings numbers and if Manning came into the league as a colt at the Tail end of Brady’s career HED BE THE ONE we’re giving all this praise too now. And the AFC was loaded with defensive units. When have we even seen safeties a like POLAMALU or ED REED!? so if you finally get over the patriots or colts you become the lucky one to deal with Hall of Fame defenses. Or your barely coming off a win over them and have to head to Foxborrow and change your entire play style.
@@df6148 this is a bad argument. Mahomes is 20-3 against top 5 defenses.
@@CalebJohnston I think his point is defenses aren’t nearly as tough as they used to be. Safety’s and cbs used to be glamor spots, now those athletes all end up wrs since the money is there and rules favor it
Super bowls means nothing, Jordan only has 6 and he the best
Love Joy's List, I think Pat is where he shouls be right now.
Will having Mahomes at 2 already, but saying he needs to match Brady rings doesn't make sense.
Right if he ends his career with 4 or 5 rings, I’d be okay with that. He doesn’t have to prove anything to me as a Chiefs fan. Absouletely nothing. This guy is already the greatest Chiefs quarterback ever.
Not bad lists by these guys but here's the real top 10 all time:
1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Manning
4. Elway
5. Unitas
6. Mahomes
7. Favre
8. Marino
9. Rodgers
10. Brees
Guys like Bradshaw, Aikman, Roelisthberger, and Eli have multiple SB rings but were never really in the convo for best QB during the time they played thats why they aren't top 10 all time.
Mahomes is already more accomplished than Elway...gotta bump Elway
How does this list leave Steve Young out?!?!
I guess if Mahomes duplicates his first five seasons, that would put him at 4 Super Bowls, 4 Super Bowl MVP’s, 4 MVP’s, 10 pro Bowls, 6 all pro’s, 6 Super Bowl appearances, and the leader in every stat ever. If that happens, then the goat conversion can start happening. Until then, Brady is the best but Mahomes will catch him.
Throwing Marino over Elway is hilarious 😂
Agreed. I think Marino was great but Elway was different
You thinking Elway is better then Marino is EVEN MORE hilarious 😂
@Johnny Ramirez people value rings over everything, Elways had the best RB during his superbowl stretch. Marino had a no run game and worse Oline and put up better numbers
Right now he is on top of the heap.
I'm glad Marino is on there. If he has the weapons the others had, he'd have Bradyesque Bowl wins.
He had two great receivers.
@James Woodson Receivers aren't enough to win a bowl kid. No run game, not so good defense and mediocre Oline were missing.
@@goldwerewolf8651 but they certainly sure do fatten a quarterback's statistics.
@James Woodson buddy he threw 48 TD's in an era 25 TDs was looked at as good. No you need atleast 30 TDs or you're underachieving. He would have won atleast 4 rings in this era
1. Tom Brady
2. Terry Bradshaw
3. Pat Mahomes
4. Joe Montana
5. John Elway
Bill Russell has 11 championships but you can't find anyone picking him over Jordan... people are so inconsistent
Thank you finally someone said it
His Airness is different 😁😁😁
As a huge Mahomes fan I would say that Mahomes is a top 10 to 15 quarterback of all time just out of respect for the other all time quarterbacks in nfl history
I feel you but This isnt about respect bro gotta call it how you see it
@@dominicharris5489 they see it with their recency bias.
@@stan3943 not recency bias no qb from a individual standpoint had this much talent and this much success while being so young this fast
Big Ben was younger than Mahomes when he won his first SB. No doubt Mahomes is great and has put together an MVP career already, but he's not top five all time.
@@KevonDaDon Brady won his first SB at 24, his second at 26.
I'm not saying Patrick Holmes is a bad player but nobody wants to talk about the 31 to 9 loss to the buccaneers in the super bowl I understand it was the buccaneers backyard but four quarters he couldn't even make a touchdown
Mahomes is clearly above everyone except Brady, Montana, and MAYBE Peyton
Everyone else is clearly under, CLEARLY
There's no maybe with Peyton Mahomes is currently in the 4 spot staring up at Peyton. Now he can easily pass up Peyton but he isn't currently better, he simply hasn't accomplished enough yet.
@@Raven.Bloodrot How Mahomes steering up at Peyton??? Mahomes has surpassed Peyton in virtually all QB ratings and has equal the Super Bowl wins in less time.
@@Kanfachan manning has 2 rings... 5 mvps and 7 first team all pros.. yes mahomes has work to do
1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Bradshaw
4. Vick
5. Mahomie
Joy's list is pretty great. And weirdly people forget about John Elway. Elway and Mahomes are remarkably similar. Elway was a mobile qb with a canon arm. Mahomes is the same. The difference is Elway had little to no talent and still made it to super bowls but lost. Mahomes has had the benefit of talent and has won, for the most part.
Maholmes was in 3 of the past 4 Super Bowls. 2-1
Brady (since the BUCS win) was in 4 of the last 5 super bowls. 3-1
If Maholmes can win 1 next season I think he will prove something really special.
Brady has played in 1 of the last 4 super bowls.
@@TheChris403 from now yes but from his BUCS ring to the previous 3
this actually a great list cant argue with this 5
We actually do hold LeBron’s finals appearances against him.
Winning multiple Super Bowls as a starter really benefits to upgrade your all-time ranking.
Mahomes has had the best 5 year run in NFL history.
But you can't put him ahead of guys who played for 15+ years. It's waaaaaaay too soon for that.
That don't wash, Gayle Sayers played and got hurt, Sandy Kofax played and got hurt. If Mahomes win two more Superbowls and got hurt, he wouldn have longevity would you penalize him for that?
Wait will had Mahomes #2 but said he can only pass Brady if he wins 7 or 8 super bowls cause that’s all that matters. But than he has Mahomes over Montana. Make that make sense.
3 weeks ago this guy acho was ready to say burrow is better than Mahomes if the bengals beat the chiefs again….
Terry Bradshaw has four Super Bowl wins in five years. Stop the cap.
Hated Bradshaw growing up. He kept beating the Cowboys. Bradshaw definitely deserves more respect. He was big time when it mattered. I would have him in the top 4 QBs of all time.
1.Brady
2.Montana
3.Elway
4.manning
5. Mahomes.
I think 3-5 can be swapped right now in any order. And it would be alright.
If Mahomes reaches 5 SB wins by his 12th year as a starter and receives 3 or 4 league MVPs by then as well I’ll put him as the greatest. It took Brady 13 years to get his 4th ring and a full 20 years to get his 7th SB win.
1.Tom Brady
2.Joe Montana
3.Peyton Manning
4.Patrick Mahomes
5.Aaron Rodgers
IMO the list is:
1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Manning
4. Mahomes
5. A few different guys could be here
I agree with Joy and Dave 100% that we can't just project Mahomes career. Do I think he'll get more? Yes but longevity is real. None of us want to see anything happen but it always could. Also, nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. I think the AFC is going to be the hardest it's ever been next year and moving forward.
I get the longevity argument when it comes to Brady and Montana, but Mahomes is better than Manning RIGHT NOW. He should be 3rd on the list.
Pat's raw talent brains and athleticism will get him to the top of this list one day
Unless Patrick mahomes has a serious injury. They said the same thing about RG3 and Cam Newton.
My top 5: Brady, Montana, Patrick, Manning, Rodgers
Brady, Montana , Manning , Rodgers (Would be a different story if Jim Kelly actually won those 4 straight Super Bowls)
Brady had to compete with Manning, Rodgers, LT, AP, Shaun Alexander, and other great QB seasons (Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Mahomes, Lamar Jackson) to compete with to win MVP votes, and unfairly lost a lot of them due to either historic performances (especially the RBs) and the despise for New England winning individual awards or TD-INT ratio (LMAO). And now, who does Mahomes have to compete with? Brady had to sacrifice his stats due to the philosophy of the Patriots plus the lack of elite skill position talent in majority of his career.
He got carried by top defenses his entire career.
Tom and Joe played before the protection program! Respect!
Brady had 10 years between chips. That's too long for somebody called the greatest
@@sionrouge1697 Pats vs. ATL wasn't that long ago!
@@michaelmckenzie6311 I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about between 2005 and 2015 where he went RINGLESS
@@sionrouge1697 Did he make any SBs during that time?
@@antoniomatthews4459 almost doesn't count. Montana is 4 and 0 and NEVER threw an INT in Super Bowl play
Don Shula is credited for his undefeated season, but he should also be criticized for never winning a SB despite having Dan Marino. That's like having Mahomes and never winning a SB.
Joys list was solid asf !
Surprisingly Jim Kelly didn’t make the list with 4 straight Super Bowl appearances? 4 losses but 4 straight Super Bowl appearances.
not even top 10 no one should be surprised
As great a competitor and qb that Brady was, I don’t think people really consider how special Belichek’s teams were. That alone gave Brady an incredible edge! Still great though
It's a simple answer , manning, Montana, Rodgers Marino Brady
Steve Young and Aikman over Rodgers for me
Top 5 quarterbacks in NFL history:
1) Tom Brady
2) Joe Montana
3) Patrick Mahomes
4) Peyton Manning
5) Johnny Unitas
All I ask from Acho is to be consistent….you can’t harp on Herbert and the Talent that hasn’t done anything really but have Marino number 5 all time and base your argument off of talent
Top 5 is tough.
1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Peyton
4. Mahomes
5 is tough for me, I like Marino, but Elway has the accomplishments. Aaron should be 5, but he's not been overall clutch in the playoffs. I think Mahomes will end up 3, possibly higher but Montana and Brady's greatness is hard to pass.
Swap out Marino for Elway and this is perfect.
If a time traveler sent you the link to this video 6 years ago, you’d immediately think it was from 20 years in the future.
This is why ppl don't take what players who played say serious. You can't sit there and say Pat has to get to 7 or 8 to pass Brady...BUT have the gall to say he's already passed Montana who has 4 rings and is undefeated with no INTs... smh
In 10 years he will be #1 of all time
We have to consider Tom Brady's division at the time he played. He had the Buffalo Bills when They were not a very good team, he had the Green Bay Packers that are still building right now and today we're not good. Then, he had the Miami Dolphins that were struggling at the time Division matters in my point of you!
Green Bay?? Green Bay is an NFC team. He had the Jets in his division.
Since no one seems to want to appreciate football history, here’s the correct top QBs all time (Top 10)
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Joe Montana
4. Johnny Unitas
5. Dan Marino
6. Aaron Rodgers
7. Drew Brees
8. Patrick Mahomes
9. Brett Farve
10. Roger Staubach
Dave is spittin
I love joy so much
The 3 Kings are Montana, Brady & Mahomes (was manning)
Marino? Elway? Did we forget about Aikman
This is so weird. Wins matter not entertainment. Then we can compare the Harlem Globetrotters versus the NBA. So are the Harlem Globetrotters better than the NBA players? No
Aikman might have 3 rings but he has NEVER been considered one of the greatest of all time. He’s an example of why you just can’t count the number of rings a player has when talking about the greatest. He was very good, but not transcendent.
number 1 all time talent
Definitely him or Marino as the best talent.
Rodgers is wayyy more talented than Dan Marino
@@scdb12 Rodgers isn't even in the same tier as Mahomes. He's trash unless he's feeding off a bottom tier division.
Rodgers>Marino>Elway=Jeff George>Mahomes=Cutler=Allen>Favre.
@@CalebJohnston Please stop talking. Your subjectivity on this subject is weird. And it’s clouding any type of real substance. Any QB who wins the MVP 4 times is not trash. What are we even talking about?
Definitely Top 5
I'd say Brady winning four super bowls in his late 30's/early 40's is more impressive than winning several super bowls in your physical prime. Also Mahomes lost the big head to head match ups with Brady. The kid has a shot and deserves the hype but it'll be 10-15 years before we have any kind of outcome.
Brady's longevity is amazing. I would think Mahomes' goal is mainly to get past the other guys with 2 rings. He has already had a pretty awesome career so far and locked for the Hall of Fame even if he quits tomorrow. Everything else is just icing on the cake for him.
Dave has the correct list
Mahomes is 3 behind brandy and Montana and I've lived in Indy my whole life hes on level with manning
I think so too. He’s better than Manning but hasn’t yet reached Montana.
Joy has the best list by far
No chance!!!! Her argument made no sense.
No Love for John Elway,Cmon Man.John Elway is the Comeback King 👑!!!! 2:18
Has anyone checked up on Shady? I’m scared for him.
nah mahomes dont need 7 if these next 5 yrs ye duplicate what he's dont these past 5 yrs 2 SB 2SMVP 2mvps than im sorry he's the GOAT cuz lets be real brady 1st ring he was a average QB a game manager like they first 3 rings they were led by defense and wit the chiefs its Mahomes leading them the whole way since his 1st game
What if Manning didn't win any SB? The man got lucky especially his first ring.
Brady, Mahomes, Montana. My top three.
Some of the logic is whack. Why does Mahomes need more rings than Brady to pass him but he's already at #2 with his second ring?
Exactly make it make sense
Well, I’m not a cowboys fan .. but what about Troy Aikman ? 3 chips , SB mvp , 6 pro bowls and one of the most accurate passers in the game .
One of the most amazing stat is Mahomes has never played a playoff game on the road.
How does Acho have Marino but not Rodgers. If hes simply talking arm talent
Only reason Peyton isn't 1 is cause of rings. Because outside of that?!?! He was the best. People bring up Curry and how he's changed the game and don't understand how much Peyton should get that same respect for how he changed the QB position and Football in general. He always had a bottom 30 defense and the times he didn't, he made it to the superbowl. He Should at least have 2 more MVPs and All Pros. The way the game is played today and even the rule changes to help it stay that way or enhance it all starts with Peyton Manning. That's a fact
I love Mahomes but ain't no way he's ahead of Montana already lol. That brother needs to slow his roll
Acho you gotta understand how insane it is that you reiterate your list while the giant screen behind you has your list showing. stop repeating yourself please. stop repeating yourself please.
I have him above manning! although i think The Fix was in on their playoff run this yr
Acho how could you have Marino over Jim Kelly 4 Superbowl appearances
Why are superbowls ( a team accomplishment ) used when judging best qbs? Peyton was benched in the year he won a Super Bowl, Eli has more superbowls than Marino and Rodgers. Can we stop acting like sbs is the determining factor
1. Patrick
2. Brady
3. Lamar Jackson
Brady got to do something Jordan and Montana didn't get to do...defend his legacy against the next generation's version of himself. Mahomes beat Brady a couple times in the regular season but every time they met in the playoffs, Brady took trophies away from Mahomes in championship games. For that reason, I just don't see how Mahomes ever overtakes Brady as the GOAT
Yep
Competition in Elways time better
My Bad 😣 I Spoke too Soon ,Thank you Joy for the Love of John Elway!!!!! 5:03
To bad that take is horrible
@@yannis4070 Like Joy said,The Longevity of John Elway 16 years Patrick Mahomes only six so as of right now John Elway is clearly better.
I won't lie, and I hate that im saying this cause I love shady, but the show is so much smoother without him
7 time first team all pros!!!!!!! the sheriff was HIM!!
I think Jim Kelly and the bills went to the super bowl four years straight no mention of greatness 🤣😅🤣🤣🤣🤣
3 or 4. The argument is if he's better than Peyton or not.
This is an unfair conversation because you were considering quarterbacks that have completed their careers and staff that how many seasons a quarterback has played should be a relevant because just like they stated they don’t know how long he’ll play for with the rules that are in place wouldn’t you assume he would play longer regardless of waiting and seeing the rules are there for quarterbacks to play in the NFL longer everybody would agree with that, so making an argument that somebody had played for a longer career is pretty bias you shouldn’t consider that