Thanks for watching! Please hit "like" and share the video around - it helps me out enormously. If you enjoy my videos please consider supporting the channel: Join us on Patreon ➜ www.patreon.com/dandavisauthor Get my novels from Amazon ➜ amzn.to/3xngwz5
Any chance for a bronze age weapons video? I blacksmith a little bit and my favorite things to make are historical weapons but the bronze age is my favorite. I'm setting up for smelting bronze in the future but can't figure out my first project for something like a dagger. Maybe you can help if you make that video.
@@CaucAsianSasquatch if only I had access to a 3D printer, I do a lot of my blacksmithing old school because I haven't been doing it all that long but I'm building up my tools. I still use coal
@@HalfmoonForge fantastic. I've cast a few things. you can literally carve what you want from wax, pack it in Moist sand. I made rough bits in brass and use a dremel to finish. Made a handle for a knife
Mycenean armor pieces are truly something to behold for its age. It baffles me how obscure they are and never represented on film in favor of some awkward, ahistorical and unrealistic items.
Well... How they represented Trojan war armor: In classic antiquity: as in classic antiquity; In middle ages: as in middle ages; In modern times: as in classic antiquity + fantasy.
It's so weird to me that these things from what you might think of as a "heroic" age have been so overshadowed by their classical successors. All we really have of the time is myth and hearsay, but you'd think that would exaggerate their legacy in comparison to the better-documented and less romantic classical period. Like in the same way that modern gun nuts romanticise bolt-action and early repeating rifles but are more matter-of-fact about contemporary assault weapons, you know?
I would love to have seen an alternate version of Troy were Brad and Eric (Achilles and Hector) went at each other in a full Bronze panoply. Seeing two fit men in there prime wearing this stuff, beating the crap out of each other would have made historians weep for joy.
Those sheilds! As a hobby metal worker, they blow my mind. To think they started with a lump (!) of bronze and worked it to such high precision and so thin. You only get one shot to get it right and any mistake could mean the project would have to begin again from the crucible. Even small elements like the wire are incredible displays of skill and ingenuity. No rollers, braising torch or steel tools that are considered 'must haves' today. Astounding.
They are astonishing aren't they. The hammering marks inside are so small, tight and even. The expertise and precision is amazing and there have been very few proper reconstructions. Neil Burridge made one specifically for archeologists to test it with reproduction weapons and then they cut a wedge of bronze out to examine it microscopically and compare the metallurgy. Archeologist Barry Molloy talks about it in one of his books and a couple of articles. It's amazing to think that there thousands upon thousands of these things produced across Europe.
Hi Hendrik, I have some armour making experience, (mostly steel) and always wondered how the Greeks made their beautiful Corinthian helmets. You say they started with a lump of steel, possible... I tend to think more in the direction of starting of with a rough casted shape lately... Bronze can be easely casted, and ( Yesterday I watched a RUclips movie about Pakistan workers casting parts of a brass bull, brazing it together to a complete hollow shape) and they had that technology to do that. So, why first make a lump or a plate, then forming it into a bowl shape? Cast a rough shape of a helmet or bowl, with a comfortable thickness of about 5 mm, then hammer it out to the desired shape and thickness... Just a thought. You cant do this trick with iron or steel. Then you really have to start with a lump.
@@ducomaritiem7160 iron/steel are different again (although just as remarkable). My (limited) experience with bronze casting has shown how hard it would be to cast anything remotely resembling a sheet of bronze without any cold shuts. (I have tried). My understanding is that outside of bronze production centres, casting bronze was fairly limited. It is hard to make a reliable crucible capable of carrying enough material to make anything of size. Also when you include the time and labour to make the charcoal, I would suggest it was more efficient (faster and less exertion) to just start hammering and annealing. Remember each tree must be felled by (bronze or stone) axe and the charcoal transported. If you are interested Schola Gladiatoria has a current video on helmet development in Europe, which is worth checking out. As for braising together large elements, say for a statue, my understanding is that the two pieces are set in place with flux and braise, a mold formed around them, then the whole thing heated to the braising point. Quite an exersize.
33 pounds. The whole armor? My work out vest is 40 pounds. This soldier was also carrying a spear a knife an axe, footwear perhaps a sword with any incidentals luck charms, sentimental trinkets. Very strong people.
This is standard (up to this day), the standard weight of the equipment of an infantry soldier going into combat has been and still is 35kg to 40kg (75lbs to 90lbs). The more things changed the more they stayed the same. Armor was one thing, then shield, spear, sword, axe, etc. Added up always the same.
As a medieval reenactor I fought in just over 1/3 my not inconsiderate weight in arms & armour. I could have done with a chariot! This works out just about standard throughout history. Unlike a rifle, a big long stick is a walking aid.
@@davidbarnes9306 yes, the weight stays the same but is not always followed by comfort of carry. However keep in mind a rifle is usually carried on a sling on the back while in march but is almost always resting on some static form of support while being fired in combat. Whereas a spear, sword, club, axe, etc. Had to be swung and poked by hand by the user through the whole duration of combat putting a massive strain on the user.
@@machematix Well, I do imagine that the armor would be made as thin as possible which would keep the weight down as suggested in this video. The claim was 35 pounds.
Another really fantastic video Dan. That quote from The Iliad about Odysseus’ helm is such a great reminder of why Homer’s works are some of the most important works of literature in all of human history. It is amazing to think that someone made the choice to include in their epic poem this detailed provenance for a prestige artifact that was at the time already a piece of history. I can only imagine what the archaeologists who first discovered the boar tusk helmets felt upon making this connection.
Thank you very much. Yes, it was the foundational work for classical antiquity for good reason. The way that these precious objects retain their stories is seen in other times too. There's Bronze Age burials with Neolithic axes in them - were they found? Or were they passed down for a thousand years, retaining their stories?
this is because they are living bronze age oral traditions compiled in the form of epic poems; remember that the iliad is presumed to have been compiled in 800bc and the collapse of mycenaean greece happened arround 1100bc, so the time period of the poem composition was super close to the bronze age itself..
Bronze just got melted again for other use thats why we just dont find enough weapon or amour pieces, Iron was less expensive and more common, they just made new iron weapons or armour. In the bronze age a father would give his copper stash to his sons to they coule use it time and again. Fantastic video. Congrats.
Thank you. Thousands of bronze age weapons were buried with people or deposited in rivers or bogs in Europe - way more than armour was. There are thousands of bronze age swords in the archeological record. They didn't treat them in the same way as they did armour.
@@tedarcher9120 the swords we have weren't accidentally lost in a marsh they were intentionally buried or deposited. The ones in rivers and bogs were usually purposely bent or broken and were often deposited together with other items, perhaps multiple sword pieces and other special objects. Thousands upon thousands of swords were purposely interred. And almost no armour ever was.
@@DanDavisHistory Think of how many modern little boys have sword collections. I know i had dozens of swords by the time i was an adult: toys, replicas, decorative, functional... any sword was a good sword. I had ninja swords, a roman style sword, a claymore style sword, katana and wakizashi, chineese swords (both straight and curved), a scimitar, toy lightsabers, a display sword shaped like a dragon... and that's just what i can think of off the top of my head. The only armor i had was a plastic helm and cuirass (medieval western europe style) from a holloween costume. Weapons just spark a person's imagination in a way that armor doesn't i suppose.
I stumbled across your channel while doing research on the Tollense Valley battle and have since been going through all the content on your channel like a kid going through his Halloween candy. Love the informative and thought provoking style in which you present these videos. Also picked up the Gods of Bronze series on Audible and am 10 hours into the first book. It has been an absolute blast so far. Can't wait to see your next video, keep up the good work!
Having worn "bullet-proof"-vests and other modern body armor, modern and steel helmets, with weapons and kit for a few years in operations I find this very interesting. Trying to visualize their full kit, if a fighting soldier actually used this or just the chieftains etc is very fascinating. I appreciate that you are clear on what is known and what is speculation.
19:00 Kind of reminds me of this documentary I saw where some UK "experts" had two completely out of shape volunteers wear Bronze Age armor and told them to run full sprint. Then concluded it was "impossible" for anyone to wear such armor in battle. It was ridiculous. I don't know if they were deliberately manipulating it to confirm their bias or they were so out of touch with reality they forgot to hire actual soldiers, or at least two men who actually lifted weights.
You're a damn treasure, Dan! Enjoy your videos in the evening always when you post em. Keep it up lad, your style is so very fluid and not dry at all, without taking any blows regarding quality of information. Happy to see your channel grow over the past months. You deserve it.
This just reminds me how awesome the Illiad is. for such and old story, it is so entertaining and intense, especially knowing that some form of the events must have truly happened.
I would imagine whatever was left on a battlefield was likely looted either by the winners or the locals. Farmers gathering armor would likely find a use for the metal. No point having a wagon load of armor if you are not going to use it.
Yeah none of these armours were just left on a battlefield. They were all deliberately deposited by their owners, often with collections of other items like jewellery or beads or cremated human remains.
There's a moment in Song of Achilles that describes Odysseus going from opponent to opponent, dismounting his chariot to strip bodies of arms and armor to throw onto the back of his chariot as war spoils. I understand Ancient Greece was a very poor place, but this is some fast recycling.
@@hardgay7537 the victors always stripped the armor and other valuables from the vanquished, there are many references to that in contemporary writings of the times
And another one! Nice, i found your channel yesterday and already watched all your videos. I didnt know how much i missed this content until i came across you. Keep it up ! :)
Weapons of defeated enemy was reused even in 20th century. For example, after beating Romans at Teutoborg forest, Germans burned captured shields and collected metal parts for reuse. And in Iliad was described great dispute between Odysseus and Ajax over captured suite of armor. Also, it was common in Old Greece that old shield passes to grandson as heirloom.
Your maps of all the known sites is very helpful when showing the expansive areas that it encompasses. That really must have taken a lot of work, we thank you Dan!
I've been in construction for 20 years . They still haven't come up with hand protection that allows full mobility and function while protecting the hand fully. I hang rain gutters specifically and more often than not I have to remove the gloves to get the flexibility to feel what I'm doing properly . I have to imagine a person who makes their living with a weapon in their hand wants that same flexibility and would sacrifice the hand guard in exchange.
Different job, same problem - I take blood or administer injections in cold weather. I'd still rather go without gloves rather than lose the dexterity.
Thank you, that means a lot. I did so much reading for these last two - each new avenue opens two more. I was thinking one possible follow up video could be about the new militarism of the 12th century BC but I need to think of an angle. Anyway, cheers mate.
Important considerations with shields: A shield does not have to be almost impervious to damage to be a good shield. It's in fact quite plausible that it was desirable for an opponent to be able to successfully cut into, or thrust into (obviously not *too* deep) your shield so that you can then control their weapon. The value of being able to do that can't be overstated. If the opponents weapon bounces off your shield; their weapon is free to offend you. If they cut into your shield, you can move your own shield and bind their weapon, largely nullifying their capacity to offend you. I actually suspect that the commonality of organic shields in later periods is actually as much a reflection of martial practice as it is material wealth or technological sophistication.
Te doy la razon, pero además opino que depende de las tácticas de combate. Un escudo ligero da más facilidad en el cuerpo a cuerpo, uno grande y pesado es mejor en tácticas de grupo.
Además ,excepto las élites , no se podían permitir armaduras de bronce o lino tórax, pero lo suplían con cueros y otras artimañas más económicas pero efectivas. La mayoría no eran élites, osea que hay que dar valor al pueblo llano, lo que se encuentra en las tumbas no es representativo, son sequías de los poderosos, y, esos eran pocos muy pocos
Superb treatment of a facet of ancient warfare largely overlooked but I believe to be of the most significant importance to those warriors whose armor was the embodiment of their deeds and identity.
Hey man, just finished your first book of the series and got myself the second one. You are really hard on your characters, it is good drama. Tnx for the stories.
Feet never seem to be protected and not all greaves have rims to deflect blows down there. A few greaves do extend somewhat. I can only wonder what they wore as defense as feet needed to be flexible in combat and are very sensitive. The Roman caltrop emphasizes awareness of this. Thank you for this excellent overview
Foot protection seems very rare. I can only think of some knights wearing it. For infantry combat I assume that it was just really difficult to hit someone's foot in formation combat as you it'd be near impossible with a spear and it's probably not a great idea to do a large lean down to aim at someone's foot with a relatively short sword as you'd get a shield to the face.
One can only guess how many fine pieces of bronze armor were recycled into other goods as fashion and technology changed. It's surprising how much survived, considering.
Love this video! Bronze age armors are often overshadowed by their medieval steel suit cousins. The beginning of the video really intrigued me though concerning these pre-metallurgical organic armors you mention. I never thought about it too intensely and always assumed it would just be some simple hardened leather or hide(certainly couldn't be because I play too many fantasy themed games hmmm) or even just some thick clothing. But, you mention wood and lacquer and now that I think about it things like bone or even plant fibers or ceramics might have been feasible. Any chance content concerning this topic is in the works? or maybe a recommendation if not? Thanks again for the video!
Very interesting and informative video! Western and Eastern Europe tend to get ignored when it comes to bronze armour. Usually the focus is on the Near East, Mesopotamia and the Aegean. I've read some of Dan Howard's 'Bronze Age Military Equipment'. It's a great book but the focus tends to be on Aegean armour, especially body armour, and helmets and western European armour aren't covered in much detail. This video is a great addition to the subject.
Thank you very much. Yes I agree, it's far easier to find that stuff which is one reason I started making these videos about bronze age Europe (outside of the eastern Mediterranean sphere).
This is so good. As a researcher in a completely different topic, I love how you're fully transparent about the uncertainty surrounding the facts but still manage to tell a compelling plausible (Hi)story. Bonus points for the Iliad quotes obviously. Might be worth devoting an episode to it (and the Odysseus) ? What can it teach us about the european bronze age ? (ps: I love your books, they almost feel like a much needed prequel to the Iliad)
I could imagine the dendra panopoly to be used as a show of force, a way of intimidation. Worn by body guards of commanders rather than regular field troops. Like "look what we are capable of, if you tried any funny business you couldn't even put a bruise on my warrior, you really shouldn't mess with our palace, so better you start paying tribute right now"
Going by the references to armour figures in the palace stores, the researchers think they were quite common. There were light troops and archers and the core of Mycenaean army was spearmen in these. Between maybe c.1450 BC and c.1300 BC anyway.
@@DanDavisHistory I am surprised that they would have the necessary production capacity for that. Wasn't Bronze a bit harder to come by because you would have to import tin from thousands of miles away? If they were so common how can it be that we only found a single example?
There was enormous quantities of copper and tin being mined and transported at this time so there was enough for thousands of panoplies. There were tens of thousands of swords and spears too. And it's a matter of survival - clearly they were almost never put into tombs - only about eight times. But there were tens of thousands of armours in the Iron Age but only a handful survive. One reason we know they were common is that the Linear B ideogram for "armour" is a Dendra type panoply - pauldrons and everything. That equalled "armour" for them.
One thing I've found interesting in studying this topic, is how constant the weight is. There's a myth from jousting armor and some very late miedeval bullet proof armor that metal armor weighed alot. Not really. The infantryman's fighting load ranged from 35-50lbs, with a marching load of not over 85lbs (with that really just being the professional legions) remaining constant across millenia, then modern militaries got the brilliant idea of making 151lbs a hypothetically light load. Insane.
Well done once again my friend. I will become a patron shortly my friend. I'm very familiar with Anthony and Mallory, but thank you for the tip on Drews. Much respect from America
Thank you Chris, I appreciate it. I do like Drews but there are many academics who disagree completely with his views. I'm going to make more videos about this debate in the coming weeks.
24:32 could you imagine. And here we are having dug it up all these years later, and admiring his mighty blow. Wouldn't he be stoked to know that. Awesome!
Tin being such a rare material throughout Europe would hopefully pinpoint where the bronze armor was made. As always, excellent work. The BA trade networks between Britain and Cyprus must have been extensive.
Amazing as always. Could you do a video on late Bronze Age Galicia? The Castro Culture had some magnificent metalwork and their hillforts are scattered everywhere in Galicia and North Portugal.
The weapons and armor in Beowulf are often gifted with stories of the deeds done with them. Seems like the purpose is to remember the deeds and inspire new ones.
Only in from work and had a tough day then I get an alert to say Dan Davis has dropped a half hour of sheer BLISS , so going to cook something and sit in my nest and thoroughly relax and enjoy, don't even know what it's about but I definitely know it's going to be just Brilliant. Thank you Dan really appreciate your work. Only moan I wish it was for much longer. 🤣🤣🤣🇮🇪
@@DanDavisHistory brilliant I enjoyed the horned helmet video and this was a great follow-up, I love all this historical culture the different people, battles, day to day lives it's so exciting. Of course you do it extremely well and in great detail so it makes more enjoyable. Super channel, I'm hooked. Cheers Dan.
Really makes me sad and angry that many ancient artefacts are just held in private collections rather than held in trust in a museum for us all to enjoy and learn from.
Some of this stuff was dug up 150 years ago and was only ever in private hands. So much so that there's no proper record of where it actually came from. However many private owners do allow researchers access to artefacts for study and some do loan items to museums for display.
This is amazing I am very thankful I found your channel. I had long held an interest in the bronze age all the way back to the paleolithic period of Europe--it being the the period historians know least about. This channel provides me with the information I had long been craving, as well as leading me to further questions about the unknown.
I'm actually quite surprised how similar the Mycenaen helmet design starting at 6:30 is with the Trojan armor helmets from the movie Troy, which all internet and RUclips comment history buffs scorn so badly. After this type of video, with so extensive, clear and detailed explenation with tons of expertice, it's extremely hard to realise that why the debate would still rage on. How would anyone have conflicting questions after this type of unpassionate and clinically correct tranquil explenation. Very informative and educational.
I really wonder how much the Iliad was just Ancient Greek anime. Something about the way “homer” describes certain items almost like the reader is supposed to go “whaaaat? SEVEN layers of oxhide? That’s crazy. I only have three” or whatever.
God, imagine the energy and innate knowledge of metal it took to hammer out one of those beautiful bronze shields. Was going to leave a comment for the algorithm but that is truly incredible, I would have thought they were just made from a mold like that considering how ornate they are, even the shields used in battle.
@@DanDavisHistory I really like your videos. the Neolithic period and the Bronze Age in Eurasia always fascinated me. is shrouded in mystery. Another thing that intrigues me about that time is discovering how these cultures perceived the world, their spirituality. it seems to me that they had an animist mentality with shamanic features. That Abrahamic Manichean dualist idea did not exist. God vs the devil, good vs evil. the world and its manifestations simply were. The representations of your world of the dead, underworld, another world as something evil, punitive was something created by medieval Christian scribes and does not match the reality, with the mentality of these ancient cultures. An example: hel in Norse mythology is not a place of punishment similar to Christian hell, but simply the world of the dead, neither good nor evil, in fact a place of knowledge. I don't know if you agree with that, if you've thought about it. Anyway, sorry to bother you. Cheers, thanks.
Thanks for watching! Please hit "like" and share the video around - it helps me out enormously.
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Thank you.
Any chance for a bronze age weapons video? I blacksmith a little bit and my favorite things to make are historical weapons but the bronze age is my favorite. I'm setting up for smelting bronze in the future but can't figure out my first project for something like a dagger. Maybe you can help if you make that video.
@@HalfmoonForge I'd like to see that done. Maybe get a 3D printed replica and make one in bronze with the lost wax method hand finished.
@@CaucAsianSasquatch if only I had access to a 3D printer, I do a lot of my blacksmithing old school because I haven't been doing it all that long but I'm building up my tools. I still use coal
@@HalfmoonForge fantastic. I've cast a few things. you can literally carve what you want from wax, pack it in Moist sand. I made rough bits in brass and use a dremel to finish. Made a handle for a knife
Mycenean armor pieces are truly something to behold for its age. It baffles me how obscure they are and never represented on film in favor of some awkward, ahistorical and unrealistic items.
Yeah it's nuts.
Well... How they represented Trojan war armor:
In classic antiquity: as in classic antiquity;
In middle ages: as in middle ages;
In modern times: as in classic antiquity + fantasy.
@@Mr.56Goldtop The average soldier probably didn't have much armor in the mid-1200s BCE.
It's so weird to me that these things from what you might think of as a "heroic" age have been so overshadowed by their classical successors. All we really have of the time is myth and hearsay, but you'd think that would exaggerate their legacy in comparison to the better-documented and less romantic classical period.
Like in the same way that modern gun nuts romanticise bolt-action and early repeating rifles but are more matter-of-fact about contemporary assault weapons, you know?
I would love to have seen an alternate version of Troy were Brad and Eric (Achilles and Hector) went at each other in a full Bronze panoply. Seeing two fit men in there prime wearing this stuff, beating the crap out of each other would have made historians weep for joy.
I love how you explain the size of known archeological material with those maps... this really puts things into a proper perspective
Thank you. I'm glad to hear it - took me hours to make those maps.
@@DanDavisHistory those maps rock
Yes!, the maps really do allow a deeper understanding of the finds, their location and how it fits into the whole. Great work!
@@DanDavisHistory I appreciate the maps and this channel so much. Thank you.
Those sheilds! As a hobby metal worker, they blow my mind. To think they started with a lump (!) of bronze and worked it to such high precision and so thin. You only get one shot to get it right and any mistake could mean the project would have to begin again from the crucible. Even small elements like the wire are incredible displays of skill and ingenuity. No rollers, braising torch or steel tools that are considered 'must haves' today. Astounding.
They are astonishing aren't they. The hammering marks inside are so small, tight and even. The expertise and precision is amazing and there have been very few proper reconstructions. Neil Burridge made one specifically for archeologists to test it with reproduction weapons and then they cut a wedge of bronze out to examine it microscopically and compare the metallurgy. Archeologist Barry Molloy talks about it in one of his books and a couple of articles.
It's amazing to think that there thousands upon thousands of these things produced across Europe.
@@DanDavisHistory - Corinthian helmets, perhaps the most beautiful type of armour ever made, were hammered out of a single piece of Bronze.
@@JayM409 I agree, they're incredible.
Hi Hendrik, I have some armour making experience, (mostly steel) and always wondered how the Greeks made their beautiful Corinthian helmets.
You say they started with a lump of steel, possible... I tend to think more in the direction of starting of with a rough casted shape lately... Bronze can be easely casted, and ( Yesterday I watched a RUclips movie about Pakistan workers casting parts of a brass bull, brazing it together to a complete hollow shape) and they had that technology to do that.
So, why first make a lump or a plate, then forming it into a bowl shape? Cast a rough shape of a helmet or bowl, with a comfortable thickness of about 5 mm, then hammer it out to the desired shape and thickness... Just a thought.
You cant do this trick with iron or steel. Then you really have to start with a lump.
@@ducomaritiem7160 iron/steel are different again (although just as remarkable).
My (limited) experience with bronze casting has shown how hard it would be to cast anything remotely resembling a sheet of bronze without any cold shuts. (I have tried).
My understanding is that outside of bronze production centres, casting bronze was fairly limited. It is hard to make a reliable crucible capable of carrying enough material to make anything of size. Also when you include the time and labour to make the charcoal, I would suggest it was more efficient (faster and less exertion) to just start hammering and annealing. Remember each tree must be felled by (bronze or stone) axe and the charcoal transported.
If you are interested Schola Gladiatoria has a current video on helmet development in Europe, which is worth checking out.
As for braising together large elements, say for a statue, my understanding is that the two pieces are set in place with flux and braise, a mold formed around them, then the whole thing heated to the braising point. Quite an exersize.
33 pounds. The whole armor? My work out vest is 40 pounds. This soldier was also carrying a spear a knife an axe, footwear perhaps a sword with any incidentals luck charms, sentimental trinkets. Very strong people.
This is standard (up to this day), the standard weight of the equipment of an infantry soldier going into combat has been and still is 35kg to 40kg (75lbs to 90lbs). The more things changed the more they stayed the same.
Armor was one thing, then shield, spear, sword, axe, etc. Added up always the same.
Yes. I supouse the thinking is always "how much can a soldier carry" being armour, or ammo or bateries for laser blasters, the principle is the same.
As a medieval reenactor I fought in just over 1/3 my not inconsiderate weight in arms & armour. I could have done with a chariot! This works out just about standard throughout history. Unlike a rifle, a big long stick is a walking aid.
@@davidbarnes9306 yes, the weight stays the same but is not always followed by comfort of carry. However keep in mind a rifle is usually carried on a sling on the back while in march but is almost always resting on some static form of support while being fired in combat. Whereas a spear, sword, club, axe, etc. Had to be swung and poked by hand by the user through the whole duration of combat putting a massive strain on the user.
i wonder what kind of physique a bronze age European might have
This is such a heavy topic.
Seriously, bronze is about 7.7 times as dense as water.
So it'd be like like wearing 6ish wet t-shirts and socks and beanies?
@@machematix Well, I do imagine that the armor would be made as thin as possible which would keep the weight down as suggested in this video. The claim was 35 pounds.
Another really fantastic video Dan. That quote from The Iliad about Odysseus’ helm is such a great reminder of why Homer’s works are some of the most important works of literature in all of human history.
It is amazing to think that someone made the choice to include in their epic poem this detailed provenance for a prestige artifact that was at the time already a piece of history.
I can only imagine what the archaeologists who first discovered the boar tusk helmets felt upon making this connection.
Thank you very much. Yes, it was the foundational work for classical antiquity for good reason.
The way that these precious objects retain their stories is seen in other times too. There's Bronze Age burials with Neolithic axes in them - were they found? Or were they passed down for a thousand years, retaining their stories?
this is because they are living bronze age oral traditions compiled in the form of epic poems; remember that the iliad is presumed to have been compiled in 800bc and the collapse of mycenaean greece happened arround 1100bc, so the time period of the poem composition was super close to the bronze age itself..
@@pindanetel the trojan cycle itself is set at the close of the Mycenaean era.
@@DanDavisHistory I’ve never considered that a named axe may have come before a named sword and it only now seems obvious 😮
Survive the Jive.
Dan Davis.
Simon Roper.
The 3 horsemen of making your day 50× better
Stefan Milo would be my Fourth Horseman. Fortress of Lugh is another good one.
@@liquidoxygen819 Stefan Milo is a left wing cuck
Bronze just got melted again for other use thats why we just dont find enough weapon or amour pieces, Iron was less expensive and more common, they just made new iron weapons or armour.
In the bronze age a father would give his copper stash to his sons to they coule use it time and again.
Fantastic video. Congrats.
Thank you. Thousands of bronze age weapons were buried with people or deposited in rivers or bogs in Europe - way more than armour was. There are thousands of bronze age swords in the archeological record. They didn't treat them in the same way as they did armour.
@@DanDavisHistory it's really hard to find a sword that fell into marsh, but way easier to strip dead bodies of their precious metal
You can't really recast iron that easily, they didn't have hot enough ovens for that
@@tedarcher9120 the swords we have weren't accidentally lost in a marsh they were intentionally buried or deposited. The ones in rivers and bogs were usually purposely bent or broken and were often deposited together with other items, perhaps multiple sword pieces and other special objects.
Thousands upon thousands of swords were purposely interred. And almost no armour ever was.
@@DanDavisHistory Think of how many modern little boys have sword collections. I know i had dozens of swords by the time i was an adult: toys, replicas, decorative, functional... any sword was a good sword. I had ninja swords, a roman style sword, a claymore style sword, katana and wakizashi, chineese swords (both straight and curved), a scimitar, toy lightsabers, a display sword shaped like a dragon...
and that's just what i can think of off the top of my head. The only armor i had was a plastic helm and cuirass (medieval western europe style) from a holloween costume.
Weapons just spark a person's imagination in a way that armor doesn't i suppose.
I stumbled across your channel while doing research on the Tollense Valley battle and have since been going through all the content on your channel like a kid going through his Halloween candy. Love the informative and thought provoking style in which you present these videos. Also picked up the Gods of Bronze series on Audible and am 10 hours into the first book. It has been an absolute blast so far. Can't wait to see your next video, keep up the good work!
Thank you very much, what a great comment to read.
Having worn "bullet-proof"-vests and other modern body armor, modern and steel helmets, with weapons and kit for a few years in operations I find this very interesting. Trying to visualize their full kit, if a fighting soldier actually used this or just the chieftains etc is very fascinating. I appreciate that you are clear on what is known and what is speculation.
19:00 Kind of reminds me of this documentary I saw where some UK "experts" had two completely out of shape volunteers wear Bronze Age armor and told them to run full sprint. Then concluded it was "impossible" for anyone to wear such armor in battle.
It was ridiculous. I don't know if they were deliberately manipulating it to confirm their bias or they were so out of touch with reality they forgot to hire actual soldiers, or at least two men who actually lifted weights.
It's become my ritual to listen to one of your videos before going to sleep. Your content is so interesting and your voice is so soothing
Nice, thanks.
Excellent documentary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Watched again, and couldn't leave another thumbs up. Figured this'll do just as well. Thanks for another interesting and insightful video.
You're a damn treasure, Dan! Enjoy your videos in the evening always when you post em. Keep it up lad, your style is so very fluid and not dry at all, without taking any blows regarding quality of information. Happy to see your channel grow over the past months. You deserve it.
Thank you.
This just reminds me how awesome the Illiad is. for such and old story, it is so entertaining and intense, especially knowing that some form of the events must have truly happened.
I would imagine whatever was left on a battlefield was likely looted either by the winners or the locals. Farmers gathering armor would likely find a use for the metal. No point having a wagon load of armor if you are not going to use it.
Yeah none of these armours were just left on a battlefield. They were all deliberately deposited by their owners, often with collections of other items like jewellery or beads or cremated human remains.
This stuff found is the equipment of the victors
There's a moment in Song of Achilles that describes Odysseus going from opponent to opponent, dismounting his chariot to strip bodies of arms and armor to throw onto the back of his chariot as war spoils.
I understand Ancient Greece was a very poor place, but this is some fast recycling.
@@hardgay7537 the victors always stripped the armor and other valuables from the vanquished, there are many references to that in contemporary writings of the times
Another reason that searching for sunken ships in deep waters is so important because you can get a better idea of the whole equipment used.
Honestly you're my new favorite history channel. I love the Bronze Age. Also your videos are what got me back into Total War Troy lmao.
Thank you very much! I used to love Total War games. Haven't played any for years but I should try that one for sure.
Best coverage of bronze age arms I have seen in many years. Outstanding work Sir.
Thank you.
And another one! Nice, i found your channel yesterday and already watched all your videos. I didnt know how much i missed this content until i came across you.
Keep it up ! :)
That's great, welcome to the channel and thanks for watching.
Weapons of defeated enemy was reused even in 20th century. For example, after beating Romans at Teutoborg forest, Germans burned captured shields and collected metal parts for reuse. And in Iliad was described great dispute between Odysseus and Ajax over captured suite of armor. Also, it was common in Old Greece that old shield passes to grandson as heirloom.
The Pylos Combat Agate is a exquisitely wrought scene of bronze age combat
Your maps of all the known sites is very helpful when showing the expansive areas that it encompasses. That really must have taken a lot of work, we thank you Dan!
Your readings from the Iliad are thr best I've heard, Yjank You.
I've been in construction for 20 years . They still haven't come up with hand protection that allows full mobility and function while protecting the hand fully. I hang rain gutters specifically and more often than not I have to remove the gloves to get the flexibility to feel what I'm doing properly . I have to imagine a person who makes their living with a weapon in their hand wants that same flexibility and would sacrifice the hand guard in exchange.
Different job, same problem - I take blood or administer injections in cold weather. I'd still rather go without gloves rather than lose the dexterity.
Very good.
Some of the reenactors included wearing very high-end kit. Beautiful.
This video and your last one have been my favorite. It feel like I'm getting a grasp of the Bronze age. Thank you for making these!
Thank you, that means a lot. I did so much reading for these last two - each new avenue opens two more. I was thinking one possible follow up video could be about the new militarism of the 12th century BC but I need to think of an angle. Anyway, cheers mate.
Not gonna lie that picture of a leather vest over a Saxon hauberk hurt my soul a little xD
Important considerations with shields: A shield does not have to be almost impervious to damage to be a good shield. It's in fact quite plausible that it was desirable for an opponent to be able to successfully cut into, or thrust into (obviously not *too* deep) your shield so that you can then control their weapon. The value of being able to do that can't be overstated. If the opponents weapon bounces off your shield; their weapon is free to offend you. If they cut into your shield, you can move your own shield and bind their weapon, largely nullifying their capacity to offend you. I actually suspect that the commonality of organic shields in later periods is actually as much a reflection of martial practice as it is material wealth or technological sophistication.
Te doy la razon, pero además opino que depende de las tácticas de combate. Un escudo ligero da más facilidad en el cuerpo a cuerpo, uno grande y pesado es mejor en tácticas de grupo.
Además ,excepto las élites , no se podían permitir armaduras de bronce o lino tórax, pero lo suplían con cueros y otras artimañas más económicas pero efectivas. La mayoría no eran élites, osea que hay que dar valor al pueblo llano, lo que se encuentra en las tumbas no es representativo, son sequías de los poderosos, y, esos eran pocos muy pocos
You just keep uploading! It's awesome
I do. I'm glad you enjoy the videos Eric.
I go to this channel every night to help me sleep. Your voice is amazingly calming and I feel like I'm getting smarter listening to you haha
been listening to other videos all morning and now a newbie. Sweet and thank you. Great content always.
Wonderful, great to hear it.
Great video! Appreciate the depth and detail you go into discussing the individual armor components and regional styles
Thanks Alec. It's hard to know how much detail to go into so I'm glad you thought that.
Superb treatment of a facet of ancient warfare largely overlooked but I believe to be of the most significant importance to those warriors whose armor was the embodiment of their deeds and identity.
Thank you, yes I agree with you there.
I have just been to the Ashmolean in Oxford, an incredible museum, and I think that your video's are a perfect compliment to places like that.
Thank you, Admiral Squatbar.
From one Dan Davis to another… great job on the video. I just stumbled on it and. Loved it!!!
Cheers Daniel, glad you found it.
Early bronze Corinthian Helmets with the piercing eye-slits, clearly are something special
Hey man, just finished your first book of the series and got myself the second one. You are really hard on your characters, it is good drama. Tnx for the stories.
Thank you, glad you're enjoying the series.
You have maybe the best history channel that I've seen. And there's lots. Keep it up please
Thank you very much! I will do my best.
Feet never seem to be protected and not all greaves have rims to deflect blows down there. A few greaves do extend somewhat. I can only wonder what they wore as defense as feet needed to be flexible in combat and are very sensitive. The Roman caltrop emphasizes awareness of this. Thank you for this excellent overview
Thank you.
Foot protection seems very rare. I can only think of some knights wearing it. For infantry combat I assume that it was just really difficult to hit someone's foot in formation combat as you it'd be near impossible with a spear and it's probably not a great idea to do a large lean down to aim at someone's foot with a relatively short sword as you'd get a shield to the face.
Great work Dan. I have often wondered what was the armour of that period, and along comes your commentary. Thanks.
My new favourite channel!
Thank you very much.
Spectacularly good, so well made & fabulous narration, thank you 😊 !!
Thank you very much.
Halfway Through Godborn on Audible, Loving it, thanks for making it available in Audio.
Excellent as always.
Thank you very much.
One can only guess how many fine pieces of bronze armor were recycled into other goods as fashion and technology changed. It's surprising how much survived, considering.
Thanks again friend
Love this video! Bronze age armors are often overshadowed by their medieval steel suit cousins. The beginning of the video really intrigued me though concerning these pre-metallurgical organic armors you mention. I never thought about it too intensely and always assumed it would just be some simple hardened leather or hide(certainly couldn't be because I play too many fantasy themed games hmmm) or even just some thick clothing. But, you mention wood and lacquer and now that I think about it things like bone or even plant fibers or ceramics might have been feasible. Any chance content concerning this topic is in the works? or maybe a recommendation if not? Thanks again for the video!
Nice One Dan, about time someone covered this topic in depth, makes a change from Corinthian helmets.
Thank you very much.
I do love me a Corinthian helmet though.
@@DanDavisHistory 👍😄
Really liking this channel, Dan Davis puts together a well thought out presentation, captivating.
Thank you.
They may be wearing bronze but the video is pure gold
lol nice.
I haven't even seen it yet, and I want to say thank you. Your documentaries are so fascinating and well-researched!
Thank you very much.
Excellent video!
Thank you.
Very interesting and informative video! Western and Eastern Europe tend to get ignored when it comes to bronze armour. Usually the focus is on the Near East, Mesopotamia and the Aegean. I've read some of Dan Howard's 'Bronze Age Military Equipment'. It's a great book but the focus tends to be on Aegean armour, especially body armour, and helmets and western European armour aren't covered in much detail. This video is a great addition to the subject.
Thank you very much. Yes I agree, it's far easier to find that stuff which is one reason I started making these videos about bronze age Europe (outside of the eastern Mediterranean sphere).
This is so good. As a researcher in a completely different topic, I love how you're fully transparent about the uncertainty surrounding the facts but still manage to tell a compelling plausible (Hi)story. Bonus points for the Iliad quotes obviously. Might be worth devoting an episode to it (and the Odysseus) ? What can it teach us about the european bronze age ? (ps: I love your books, they almost feel like a much needed prequel to the Iliad)
Fascinating video on the armor. Loved how you make it so easy to see the spread of different techniques of armor production.
Dan, I've waited 50 years for this video. Thank you.
Thanks for watching Michael. I'm glad you liked the video.
I could imagine the dendra panopoly to be used as a show of force, a way of intimidation. Worn by body guards of commanders rather than regular field troops.
Like "look what we are capable of, if you tried any funny business you couldn't even put a bruise on my warrior, you really shouldn't mess with our palace, so better you start paying tribute right now"
Going by the references to armour figures in the palace stores, the researchers think they were quite common. There were light troops and archers and the core of Mycenaean army was spearmen in these. Between maybe c.1450 BC and c.1300 BC anyway.
@@DanDavisHistory I am surprised that they would have the necessary production capacity for that. Wasn't Bronze a bit harder to come by because you would have to import tin from thousands of miles away? If they were so common how can it be that we only found a single example?
There was enormous quantities of copper and tin being mined and transported at this time so there was enough for thousands of panoplies. There were tens of thousands of swords and spears too. And it's a matter of survival - clearly they were almost never put into tombs - only about eight times. But there were tens of thousands of armours in the Iron Age but only a handful survive.
One reason we know they were common is that the Linear B ideogram for "armour" is a Dendra type panoply - pauldrons and everything. That equalled "armour" for them.
@@DanDavisHistory Well apologies, it seems my mind was still in Late Copper Age mode. Bronze Age is of course an entirely different matter.
I think that Dendra armour was ment for a kind of specialist "Shock troops" like French cuirassier cavalry was used.
One thing I've found interesting in studying this topic, is how constant the weight is. There's a myth from jousting armor and some very late miedeval bullet proof armor that metal armor weighed alot. Not really. The infantryman's fighting load ranged from 35-50lbs, with a marching load of not over 85lbs (with that really just being the professional legions) remaining constant across millenia, then modern militaries got the brilliant idea of making 151lbs a hypothetically light load. Insane.
Im addicted to your content. Please made episode on early Slavs.
Thank you. I will if I can find some good books about it.
very thorough. thank yew
Thanks Gary.
Brilliant, really enjoyed it, liked & subbed
Thank you, welcome to the channel. I hope you enjoy the other videos.
Thank you Dan!
Well done once again my friend. I will become a patron shortly my friend. I'm very familiar with Anthony and Mallory, but thank you for the tip on Drews. Much respect from America
Thank you Chris, I appreciate it.
I do like Drews but there are many academics who disagree completely with his views. I'm going to make more videos about this debate in the coming weeks.
I'm looking forward to it
Thanks Dan, another great one.
Thank you.
Amazing! Superb work 👍👍
Thanks mate, so glad you enjoyed it.
Awsome!!cheers from Paraguay my friend!! It is great to see your videos
Thank you.
The backround music is so mesmerizing. It feels like I'm in The Never Ending Story or Conan.
Fascinating video - many thanks 👍
Thanks for watching.
24:32 could you imagine. And here we are having dug it up all these years later, and admiring his mighty blow. Wouldn't he be stoked to know that. Awesome!
Another great video Dan! Good work!
Thank you.
Chapman's translation of the Iliad is amazing btw, my favourite. Are you familiar?
I know of it but I haven't read it. I will do. I studied the Lattimore translation and since then I've enjoyed Fagles the most.
Tin being such a rare material throughout Europe would hopefully pinpoint where the bronze armor was made. As always, excellent work. The BA trade networks between Britain and Cyprus must have been extensive.
Just a hypothesis, but do you think the thickening of helmets and liners could be in response to the development of siege ware/tactics and or pikes
Interesting idea. The first hill forts were built in the late bronze age from about 1300 BC - 1200 BC when Europe was becoming far more militarised.
I might be wrong but don't think true pikes appeared until Phillip II of Macedon which is a fair bit later than this period.
This is probably my favourite of your videos. They're all dope though.
Thank you very much.
Thank you Dan, outstanding as always!
Thanks for watching.
Very interesting indeed, subscribed
Thank you, welcome to the channel.
Amazing as always. Could you do a video on late Bronze Age Galicia? The Castro Culture had some magnificent metalwork and their hillforts are scattered everywhere in Galicia and North Portugal.
Your videos are the type where I drop whatever I’m doing to watch them.
Thank you, I appreciate that. It makes a huge difference to the success of a video too. Cheers.
The weapons and armor in Beowulf are often gifted with stories of the deeds done with them. Seems like the purpose is to remember the deeds and inspire new ones.
Without doubt, this is my favorite channel on RUclips.
26:01 Achilles Bandages Patroklos is the title of the art.
1st time to come across this channel. Looks like excellent and well presented historical content. Subbed!
Thanks and welcome to the channel.
Only in from work and had a tough day then I get an alert to say Dan Davis has dropped a half hour of sheer BLISS , so going to cook something and sit in my nest and thoroughly relax and enjoy, don't even know what it's about but I definitely know it's going to be just Brilliant. Thank you Dan really appreciate your work. Only moan I wish it was for much longer. 🤣🤣🤣🇮🇪
Nice one Sean, great to read that. I hope you enjoy the video.
I also had a shit day, but your vids really make it better Dan
@@robertguildford4793 small things in life Robert enjoy mate I know I Will. Peace 🇮🇪
@@DanDavisHistory brilliant I enjoyed the horned helmet video and this was a great follow-up, I love all this historical culture the different people, battles, day to day lives it's so exciting. Of course you do it extremely well and in great detail so it makes more enjoyable. Super channel, I'm hooked. Cheers Dan.
Thanks Sean, I appreciate it.
Again thank you for your videos! Could you please do a similar video on the different types of bronze swords and daggers? Thanks again!
Thank you for watching. I will make a video like that if I can, sure.
Can't thank youu enough for making these videos.
That Mycenaean armor is unbelievable. It even covers the neck and face. It’s insane just how far ahead of its time this was.
Nicely done..... Thank you.
fantastic topics, I adore your channel.
Through both the front and the back…. DAMN. What a monster.
And a cut through the neck.
Really makes me sad and angry that many ancient artefacts are just held in private collections rather than held in trust in a museum for us all to enjoy and learn from.
Don't even get me started on stuff from Egypt "belonging" to the British museum etc
Some of this stuff was dug up 150 years ago and was only ever in private hands. So much so that there's no proper record of where it actually came from. However many private owners do allow researchers access to artefacts for study and some do loan items to museums for display.
This is amazing I am very thankful I found your channel. I had long held an interest in the bronze age all the way back to the paleolithic period of Europe--it being the the period historians know least about. This channel provides me with the information I had long been craving, as well as leading me to further questions about the unknown.
Wonderful, I'm glad you found it too. Cheers.
Thanks for the birthday gift, Mr. Davis!
Happy birthday!
@@DanDavisHistory Thank you!
I'm actually quite surprised how similar the Mycenaen helmet design starting at 6:30 is with the Trojan armor helmets from the movie Troy, which all internet and RUclips comment history buffs scorn so badly.
After this type of video, with so extensive, clear and detailed explenation with tons of expertice, it's extremely hard to realise that why the debate would still rage on. How would anyone have conflicting questions after this type of unpassionate and clinically correct tranquil explenation. Very informative and educational.
this is the perfect video to answer my question of what people used in battle througout the bronze age, I'm going to subscribe now.
Thank you, that's what I aimed for with this video. I had the same question myself. Thanks for subscribing, I hope you enjoy the other videos.
I really wonder how much the Iliad was just Ancient Greek anime. Something about the way “homer” describes certain items almost like the reader is supposed to go “whaaaat? SEVEN layers of oxhide? That’s crazy. I only have three” or whatever.
Amazing video
Thank you.
God, imagine the energy and innate knowledge of metal it took to hammer out one of those beautiful bronze shields. Was going to leave a comment for the algorithm but that is truly incredible, I would have thought they were just made from a mold like that considering how ornate they are, even the shields used in battle.
i'm looking forward to the release in portuguese of your books here in brazil. cheers!
One day I would like to get translations done.
@@DanDavisHistory I really like your videos. the Neolithic period and the Bronze Age in Eurasia always fascinated me. is shrouded in mystery. Another thing that intrigues me about that time is discovering how these cultures perceived the world, their spirituality. it seems to me that they had an animist mentality with shamanic features. That Abrahamic Manichean dualist idea did not exist. God vs the devil, good vs evil. the world and its manifestations simply were. The representations of your world of the dead, underworld, another world as something evil, punitive was something created by medieval Christian scribes and does not match the reality, with the mentality of these ancient cultures. An example: hel in Norse mythology is not a place of punishment similar to Christian hell, but simply the world of the dead, neither good nor evil, in fact a place of knowledge. I don't know if you agree with that, if you've thought about it. Anyway, sorry to bother you. Cheers, thanks.