How To Cut Deep Mold Cavities With Pencil Lead
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- Опубликовано: 20 июл 2022
- Trevor shows us the entire process to create graphite electrodes using the ONA Wire EDM… He then uses it to cut deep cavities into Steel on the ONA Sinker EDM.
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#CNC #Machining #Machinist 
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as a machinist who has made just a couple graphite electrodes, I know how brittle it is and what a pain it is to make a good electrode without it chipping. I never thought about making an electriode with a wire EDM...genius!
To be honest, this is pretty easy to mill. All you need is 1 tip radius mill. Contour the part directly on 0 in small passes, leaving no stock because you can't finish this kind of part. I've done electrodes like this, even longer. It takes trial and error but they are pretty cheap. It will take less time then an EDM machine. Still cool though!
It's fairly quick but limited vs a 5-axis mill. I'm looking into a specific 5 axis electrode machining mill. My company is moving quickly into the magnetic component industry.
Now it's time to convince your employer you absolutely need it hahahaha
I'm like whaaa....all that mess that could have been avoided
I used to work for a company that surface ground graphite blanks to a .0002 tolerance specifically for EDM electrodes and mold making. Fun fact: you can get copper infused graphite for electrodes as well
I work at a mold and tool shop CNC milling electrodes to .0002 tolerance for EDM. We use Poco which to my understanding is a basic graphite and C3, which is the Copper infused graphite you mentioned. I went from milling Soft steel, to doing hard tool and now this and i think this is the most difficult.
Man I miss programming and running EDM's. It was stressful but awesome at the same time to cut parts that had a tolerance of +.0001 -.0000 " all day long.
I apparently have much to learn, as an operator I could only dial it in to +/- .0001
@@thomasrogers8239 The place that I worked we did punch and die work to support our production line (electronic). There a couple of tricks that we found that really helped us hold those kind of tolerances. The material is huge and how we prepared it. We either used D-2 or CPM-M4. We would heat treat is, draw it back, freeze it to around -150 deg. F. We would repeat the drawing back and freezing the parts 4 times. Your material needs to be super stable. Then once the parts hit the wire EDM I would do 1 rough cut and 3 finish passes. The finish passes I would alternate the direction the I would go around the part. I wish I had the resources available to me now days to do this. I would make a video on this. Maybe Titan could fly me down to his facility so that I could demonstrate it lol.
Absolutely love this process. EDM technology is so elegant. Great work Trevor, that burn came out amazing!
Thanks brother 👊🏼
What a great explanation of how to handle graphite and the entire process of using die-sinking and wire-cut EDM's to make a tight slot in steel.
The first time I seen and learned about EDM was in 89' when building a tool and die shop for a customer. Was awesome back then and now it blows my mind seeing it on Utube.
At my workplace (tool manufacturer) we only use graphite electrodes for part surfaces where there's a specified roughness or a desired surface texture.
I've made heaps of different graphite electrodes on a small 3-axis mill that isn't really suited for the task, but it gets the job done. It's a dirty mess and the coolant reservoir is covered in black sludge - but at least the graphite dust is caught by the coolant and not spread all over the shop through the ventilation system 😂
For a smoother surface you often see on injection molded plastic parts, our sinker EDM guys use polished copper electrodes.
Or the sinker department leaves a bit of material for a polishing operation for that mirror finish.
Anything is possible, really.
As Trevor says in the video; it's about the technology available and the equipment - but the knowledge and experience of the person manning the machine is just as important.
You are the king of molds and additive machines man ... I was amazed by this video, man. I loved your work and your back ground music very much... I liked your clear tone of speech, Mr. Trevor... I am looking forward to the next video and I am also waiting to know more about this new quick chuck and more about how to make one by myself
BOOM .
Thanks for the kind words Mohammed!
BOOM!
This is what I do everyday in my Job. Make electrode copper tungsten to wire EDM and use it for Sinker EDM. I'm working this for almost 9years as CNC machinist. Graphite is good more cheaper than copper tungsten but I think it is better use for roughing in Heat treated materials but I don't think if it can be good in carbide materials. Graphite is easy to wear than copper tungsten. But still can make good products.
Underwater shots make this next-level. Awesome video!
Thanks Matthew! Our film crew are a talented bunch indeed!
Why do I get so excited watching these videos?? So crisp!
So cool! This is new to me, and I just LOVE it! Thank you Trevor 👍
Super cool process. Super good editing. Well done all around!
Thanks brother 👊🏼
Amazing. No words. Welldone titans team.
My dad used graphite from batteries to weld copper wires back in the day. It was interesting to watch him do that
Amazing expert, amazing technology. Pure hi-tech.
All done using Electronic Dance Music. Amazing!
I remember when The Oregon Trail game and laser printers were all the rage. Then was blown away with pagers. Then these strange space age 3D printers. Now you guys! Freaking Amazing!
The Tron-esque music during the time lapse cut was a nice touch.
Results are stunning.
Super nice video and good explained 🔥💪🏻
Best scene: making the electrode with wire EDM 😍
We are honored you used the EROWA system
Thank you! We love your tools, they are top notch and I am glad we can share how nice they are with the world!
That's awesome, that you did the burn with only 1 finisher. I was taught 1 rougher 3 finishers. And no flushing, the sodicks I use to run I always had to flush deep burns, they didn't like it too much.
Yeah 1 rough 4 finish trodes is pretty standard for graphite electrodes which is why we wanted to attempt this burn with only two trodes and no flushing! Very impressed with how it performed! Thanks for watching!
fanstasic . thanks for the update on new procedures. power on
As a former die maker, this is impressive. It would not be impossible to make this part using the old manual machines but I would have had to mask the two halves, to get the finished size and that smother finish, soda blast it. It would have been almost hit or miss and it would take days to complete.
The parts would be scrap.
So I wish I could have had this technology back in the day.
The machines you're using probably cost more than our whole building and the machines in it lol.
Enjoyed watching this show it's amazing how much CNC can do.
"Die maker" when, in the 1930's? EDM is not new, come on...
@@abcdefghijk6704 we had edm and used it but never to make a die or mold part. We just had the simple one like to remove broken tap or make a hole in some super hard heat treatment tool steels.
@@abcdefghijk6704 haha you still use EDM? how archaic lmao
this is beautiful! wow i am impressed!
Copper is your best friend when burning deep ribs or bosses into mold inserts! Very nice wire wire machine, Iran a Mitsubishi FX10K wire edm almost 15 yrs ago! 👍
I wonder a few things. One, how long was the time lapse for the pocket cut? And two, how many times can the graphite cutter accurately cut through that hardened stainless?
Keep on knocking it OUT of the park
Titan exhilarating Times for anything is possible! BOOM !
BOOM Nathan!
Please start a EDM academy. I love to learn more about this machine and how far you can push it before it pushes back
I ran both wire and Ram edm for years. Miss those days
That's a regular for where I work. We make our graphite electrodes our selfs from rectangular stock then sink them into hardened aircraft certified 416 R stainless.
This is amazing!
Edm is absolutely amazing
Thanks for the hypnotizing EDM video and your Booom imitation sound love that. Have you ever experimented with coating the sides on the electrode so only the end surface do the job ?
Really cool. Thank you.
Thats a pretty impressive slot right there! I wouldnt be able to machine that with comventional methods. Nice work Trev!
Thanks dude!
Yeah, but this is a standard way to do such things in mouldmaking for last 50 years or more.
probably gotta machine two parts then weld them both together at best?
Damn thats a nice result.
Poco EDM3 has copper i do believe, so slightly different than pencil lead. But good video on EDM. Those Erowa holders have a centering attachment (you used the alignment attachment) that is ground to length also so you can just type your x, y, and z numbers to your EDM electrode offset page. Love Erowa stuff, its expensive but worth it. System 3R has really nice Wire EDM tooling, leveling heads especially.
There is no copper in Poco3. The difference between pencil graphite and fine edm grade is the fact that grades such as Poco3 are isotropic whilst pencil graphite is not. I was a manufacturing engineer/ tooling designer for Pratt & Whitney Canada and designed every electrode for all blade, vanes for their engines for 12 years. Got my own shop. I'm a Charmilles guy and a big fan of Errowa tooling.
@7:57 So a piece of stainless getting an underwater tattoo...cool haha
Amazing machines and such pro's
Incredable !
Very Nice Trevor!
Thanks brother!
that was EPIC!!!
Thank you Ron! We had fun doing it, that's for sure!
Excellent; how long it took to go 2" Depth on sinking? Rough n finish
I worked in a mold shop and we had a Makino cnc machine specially for graphite. It was sealed and had a vacuum to gather all the dust. I was a cnc programmer and I don't recall ever using diamond coated tool, it was standard carbide tools. Now something important for new machine shop worker. SAFETY FIRST!! Never work with any jewelry on fingers and wrist. Never!! This guy might lose his finger someday.
There are certainly machines designed for cutting graphite that have vacuum systems that do a pretty good job. Graphite is extremely abrasive and a standard uncoated end mill will wear quickly. Most shops that cut graphite regularly, are not using standard carbide end mills.
Really cool .... I learned to operate CNC Milling Mashines using Heidenhain controlls some years ago and it was kinda cool but our mashines were all old and crappy so I had to let them run much slower then the books said to also my former Boss was kinda stupid ruining the company because he was shipping broken parts as well thinking the customers wouldn't notice.
I guess working with such nice mashines would have been awesome, still kinda happy I don't work in the industry anymore though.
"not bad for a monday" - when the cnc mill crashed before lunch XD
I’ve Machined graphite on an EDM before and its crazy how brittle the material is. It was a pain to prevent it from chipping when holding the workpiece.
Lovely in every state of the process. Thank you all for showing and teaching us all with so many details and informations in a form that even a "non metal worker" get an idea about how things work and also "for what it is used for" and so on. Thank you! Thank you! And thousand-times mor: Thank you!,🫶🏻
By the way. I'm in "regular" a german joiner but have a omni-affinity to all kinds and forms of works. A generalist. 😅
This technology has been around for decades. In the 80s the tool and die shop had edm burners both graphite and wire
Electrical discharge machining was invented in the 194x year. This is not such a new technology.
EDM is so neat
that is crazy 🤯
Now, someone has to polish it (or you do very slow finishing burn), otherwise plastic will never go out of such mold (common issue, ribs breaking off). And imagine this is not an insert split in two halves, but one solid part.
It is possible with some release angle on the sides and an ejector pin in the bottom
Also polishing the electrodes. Multiple finish electrodes at multiple polish grades. Make the electrodes smaller to compensate and add flushing and orbital path. =happy mould polising team.
@@mulletjocks This program did have a square orbital cycle.
Many years ago I used to be the guy polishing those ribs for plastic injection molding. It was always amazing the detail they could get with EDM but polishing it was a bitch. It was a trick having or making the right tools to get all the way down into a small slot like that. Had to keep from widening the slot and the EDM process case hardened the steel making it take even longer to polish out.
Mesmerizing work. Thank you for providing these videos.
Thank you for watching Alan!
If you ever break a tap off in a cylinder head, just take it to an electrical discharge machining shop. They can burn the tap out and not disturb the original threads. Great stuff. Been there done that..... 1975 Phoenix Arizona. Best $20 I ever spent. (Might be a bit more these days, but still less than a new head.)
Find a shop with a “hole popper”
That will get the tap out and much much cheaper than paying someone to load it in a sinker ✌️
(A hole popper is a EDM drill)
If you are electrically inclined you can even make a crude EDM at home. Nothing super precise but if you are just cutting out old hardware it should be adequate 😎
@@MakeItWithCalvin Sure, just take an old welder and a small pump to supply some dielectric fluid through a hollow electrode driven vertically by a screw and small geared down motor which drives when current is not flowing through the electrode and let er rip. Or.... if you want to cut some titanium, just buy a spool of EDM wire, build a tank to hold the dielectric fluid, take some sliding window bearings and string the EDM wire through the desired path to the bottom of the tank and back to the rear of it and then up and to a small gear motor drive to pull the wire off the tensioned spool. Mount a machine vise in the tank and connect one lead of a constant current welder to it and the other lead to the bearings supplying the wire. Mount the tank to and XY stage driven by ball screws and stepper motors with micro-step drivers connected to a machine control computer capable of altering speed based of current flow. Would that work? May as well add a nice hefty capacitor to the output of the welder to punch up the current dump when the wire contacts the edge of the titanium, but not to large a capacitor as you don’t want to vaporize the EDM wire. Sound like a plan? 😉
Do you need to worry about hazardous material build up in the swarf from cutting stainless? I know it can have some nastier to handle metals in stainless alloys
Every once in a while you guys throw out a gem like this one.
Keep it up!!!
Mesmerized during the entire video.
Come on, what "gem". EDM is pretty old tech, molds are build like that for last 50+ years...
@@abcdefghijk6704 Well for one, there wasn't any "I'm the greatest ever lived" talk in it. Explanation was clear and concise, the footage was to the point and not bouncing around like the editor has ADD and the fact that it shows the entire process from start to finish.. that's a gem in my book.
I gave it a thumbs up just because you said boom
What’s the cycle time for the 2 inch deep cut in the EDM sinker?
Pencil leads are graphite mixed with clay. EDM electrodes are pure graphite.😀
We were trying to find something that non EDM folks can use to get an idea of the type of material we are cutting and why it is difficult to cut it long narrow features.
There are different grades/types of graphite. Most are mixed, NOT pure graphite (chemically pure carbon).
maybe your pencils
@@mackk123 my pencil is huge
@@ColKorn1965 huge, for you
Amazing tech. Powerhouse of knowledge and experience
Thank you!
Just jumping in on a comment about Poco3 having copper. Poco c3 etc does and is more expensive than strait poco3
.There is no copper in Poco3. The difference between pencil graphite and fine edm grade is the fact that grades such as Poco3 are isotropic whilst pencil graphite is not. I was a manufacturing engineer/ tooling designer for Pratt & Whitney Canada and designed every electrode for all blade, vanes for their engines for 12 years. Got my own shop. I'm a Charmilles guy and a big fan of Errowa tooling.
I ran wire for years but zero experience with a sinker.
Why don’t you guys use a nozzle to help flush? 🤷♂️
@@fredsanford1437 I do use nozzles as well as vacuum flushing.
how exactly did you indicate it in within a .0001 using a .0005" indicator?
It was very nicely done. But it's nothing new, we did such things 20 years ago. Two machines, Agie Classic V2/Challenge V2 and Agie Hyperspark. Of course, Erowa, Bedra wire and POCO graphite.
Greetings from Poland👍
Incredible how sharp the internal corners are.
you should check out 3D printed dies and ECM machining.
Why do you have to do it with plunge-EDM a deep pocket with the mold halves assembled? Why the two halves of the mold couldn't have been milled separately?
Does the graphite dirty the wire machine?
what is the edm music used in the video?
It's funny how to the untrained eye this looks so unimpressive but if you know what's required to do this it really is a piece of art
Could you make a graphite part and use it to make a mold in metal by this process? Or Would machining it be the better way to go? Always fun to watch things being created with new techniques. I had the opportunity to work for a company using an EDI system, but chose the other job, Automobile mechanic, should have stuck with the machining.
Electrical discharge machining was invented in the 194x. This is not such a new technology.
4 A.M. and I'm watching T of CNC, .......... let the chips fly !🤗
Any time is a good time to watch machining videos! Thanks for watching Robert!
It would be greatly appreciated to know the machine time of the different processes.
How much rough electroad wear out per said and total height wear out
Good question, I know wire EDM loses a lot of diameter and is visibly deteriorated after doing rough passes.
Sinkers appear to be consumed a lot slower.
WoW EDM
[08/08/22] If that was a mold, wouldn't it require a draft angle for proper molded piece release?
Good question, you are correct! This electrode has 1 degree of draft on every side resulting in 1 degree of draft on the walls of my finished workpiece 👍🏻
I’m not a machinist, and I prefer to think I’m not a stupid man… and while that was cool and amazingly precise. I am familiar with this type of machining, but some of the technical jargon sailed over my head so high and so fast I would have never been able to catch it.
Good job mate, can you make a vidio whit angle sink (X&Z or Y&Z) that would be fun for the ppl to see. And why bro didnt you just use 4th axis EDM, i know you have one. You can do loads of difrent sinking shapes whit it.
Absolutely we will be doing both of those things in the future! The ONA Iris 6 makes angled burns very easy. Can’t wait to showcase it!
you were so preoccupied with whether you could, you didnt stop to think whether you should.
I envy the guys in that department in my machine shop that in the laser cutter all I'm stuck grinding away on my CNC lathe
I have to comment; it is very easy to make that electrode by milling if you know what you are doing. It is not even very thin. Done that even thinner and longer;)
Please share the soundtracks used in the video.
Does it take longer on the wire edm todo roughing vs finisher?
I'm curious about that too lol I'm a plunge programmer so I'm not totally familiar with timing for wiring graphite but from what I understand it takes a while.
@@hunterb108 lol I have many years experience on wire but zero with sinker.
I imagine it’s the same, rough pass is always the longest and finishing passes are super quick
Hope that helps ✌️
This feels like black magic to me
Make a video on how document flow in machine shop please
[08/08/22] I don't quite understand all of it yet, but it's a learning process.
Impressive machine process
I tried edm wire on graphite it did not work. Switched to wafer saw
What is the difference between the rougher and the finishing electrode?
Rough work means more current, more clearance, more roughness.
Finishing work less clearance, better roughness
To only have access to this type of kit, and totally not what i thought when i started video lol
wow
Can anyone help me understand why they are using graphite to punch into steel? What does this accomplish? How does it work? I’m so confused.
Could these electrodes cut rock/stone? Like, limestone, granite?
Nope; EDM requires that the workpiece be a conductive material.
Just get one of those insane pencil lead sculpters to do it and they'll be able to exceed any machine.
what is this process called, i never seen a way to cut material like this
EDM electronic discharge machining
How do you know how many electrodes its going to take to accomplish the burn?
Putting a lot of power through the electrode to rough would wear it down a bit so a finisher does the last little bit.
Experience. It may take 1 to 4 electrodes to do the job (depends on size, shape, materials, finish).
Hi Titans of CNC!
I am a student
I have a doubt
GO G90 G55 X0 Y0;
G43 Z2.0 H2;
#501=1;
WHILE [#500LE23]DO1;
G91 Z-0.7863 F480;
G04 P100;
#501=#501+1;
END1;
THIS set of codes was used for roughing 22 mm drill
What is difference between using G81 cycle vs G01 z 17.3 F 480 Vs WHILE LOOP WITH Incremental like above mentioned code ,is there any difference between this codes?
In that while loop the G04 makes a pause of 100 miliseg every incement(0.78). And G81 is a straight drill with no pauses. And using G81 you only need XY postion repeat to do another drill. Sorry about my bad English, hope this answered your quesiton.
@@soto4621 thank u bro
never seen this before, mindblowing!
This is very old process, nothing new. This shows how little general public knows about machining.
@@abcdefghijk6704 Don't worry, we are actually taking action to change that every single day.
That’s damn impressive. I don’t have the brain ability to work in cnc but I can tell you this. Titans of cnc know what their doing and are not afraid to fail or push the limits of their knowledge. Time and time again with every video you guys prove this
Its not that special for edm lol
Thank you Frank, we appreciate your support!
@@hendrikyoc257 it’s not meant to be the most impressive thing ever made on an EDM. It shows cutting graphite in the wire which some might not know is possible. Also speaks to a common application for sinker EDM and shows how it’s done.
EDM (process, not genre of music) was invented in 1940's and fully developed in the 60's. Nothing new.
This tells a lot about general public "knowledge" (lack of knowledge of what processes are out there).
@@abcdefghijk6704 Which is exactly why we do what we do. Not everyone has the opportunity to work in an EDM shop or mold shop but seeing these videos might inspire them to learn more about it or pursue this skill in addition to what they already know.
if your off a tenth then have something sticking out 4 inches that tenth will be nearly a thow at end of the stick out surely