It wasn't a villain. It's unclear if it has any agency. But if it does, it does not appear to be aware of the impact it is having on te surface. It's basically like going up to a dark room that had someone with whom you were talking, asking "you still there? Kinda quiet now buddy" and accidentally breathing onto a sentient anthill that can't handle the stink of your breath...
The great thing about STIV is that there is no villain .. and I agree that the whale probe had no idea of the impact it was having on the earth’s other creatures or on human civilization .. when all you know is whales you’re not even able to process or conceive of anything outside of that. The image I got was that the whale probe had no idea of anything else going on on the planet.
There's a short story called Twilight's Wrath in the 'Tales of the Dominion War' collection that follows Shinzon as a general during the Dominion War, leading Reman shock troops. Really interesting stuff, worth a read.
I have to say, Nero's "hello" is one of the best opening lines ever, purely because of his dry delivery. The moment he came on I thought 'ohhhhh dear it's gonna be one of those baddies', then he spoke and I immediately flipped and loved him. Other villains always show some decorum, but everything about him shows that he just doesn't care about or is impressed by the people on his screen.
I always liked thinking of it as Nero spitting in Pike's face, not even addressing him as one captain to another. He knows he's got the biggest, baddest ship in the quadrant, he came off of slaughtering federation task force, and here's this lone Starfleet captain with the sheer nuts to make demands of him. He's not some puffed up Romulan officer, he's a civilian out for blood. Decorum was never in his repertoire and it shows, especially with his impulsive explosions of violence that I always saw as the evil that Vulcans fought hard to suppress with logic.
"It has happened! I watched it happen! I saw it happen! Don't tell me it didn't happen!" is an all-time great villain line, in my opinion. Maybe Rowan mentioned this, but the video isn't loading for me at the moment.
meh... afaik (from sfdebris) his backstory is great in the comic (or novelization, not sure), but i haven't read it, and since it's not in the movie it doesn't count. movie nero (we'll call him larry) is hella lame... just some guy
Only reason I think that Khan is 1 and Dukat 2 is that with Khan you almost get as much of a character as Dukat. The thing is Khan only had 1 EPISODE and a roughly 2 hour movie to develop while Dukat had 7 seasons of a series. The fact that Khan can rival Dukat with so much less material and time taken on him is what imo pushes him above Dukat.
Dukat, i felt, and I'm not attacking ya just my take, was too easy to defeat and depended so much on others to get anything done. Really he is just a serial rapist with a narcissistic ego but I never saw him as a threat. If anything, the pawraiths (however it is spelled) are more "villainous"
Loyd's character in Star Trek 3 is a bit underrated. There are some subtle bits that show there's more to the character than we see, like when he somberly kills his loyal underling for looking at the Genesis plans and the underling's acceptance of that death. Definitely would've been great to give him a bit more screen time and flesh him out more so that death would've been much more satisfying.
I agree with all the placements except Syboc and the Borg Queen. She should have been higher, and I think you’re inflating him because he looks good in comparison to the rest of the movie.
Kruge is a very underrated villain in my opinion. He felt as one of the best Klingons. He has his honor, but doesn't keep himself blinded to all else, and you can see he's hurt by the death of his crew. And Lloyd gives it his all, sadly he had to follow a legendary performance and that left him to be buried
I remember how I reacted to the news of Christopher Lloyd playing a Star Trek Klingon..."Christopher Lloyd??? as a Klingon??? He's a comedian!!!" I had no confidence in this. I dreaded the idea of Klingon Rev. Jim Ignatowski (I don't remember if "Back To The Future" had come out by then - I knew Christopher Lloyd as Rev. Jim Ignatowski on "Taxi". In fact, we had a joke about C.L. playing Kruge at the time: KRUGE: "Give me Genesis!!!" KIRK: "No." KRUGE: "Okay." He did considerably better then I expected, but I still in my mind see "Klingon Rev. Jim Ignatowski".
You know what's great about a work of fiction? Millions of fans will have different preferences. Isn't it wonderful that we can all argue what our favourite parts of the franchise are without mocking other people's choices? I read through some of the other comments and they made me sad. Why can some people only build up what they like by tearing down what other people like? Rowan did a really good job of saying what HE liked or disliked about each one without without trying to invalidate anyone else's opinions.
Noticing a bit of a theme here, the actors are all brilliant and either ham it up like no tomorrow or project subtle menace. The real make or break is the material they're given to work with. Sort of a reflection of the whole Star Trek franchise as a whole. Or maybe I should say a *"Dark Mirror"*?... I'll see myself out.
I've recently started watching the original series, and after only having watched the Abrams movies and bits of the Shatner Nemoy movies growing up, it was really surprising to me that so many of the episodes don't really have "villains" in the traditional sense
And because the concept of a villain is a very “us vs them” mentality, where the “other side” is just “all bad”, which Star Trek was never really about (the TOS Klingons notwithstanding - they were pretty close to mustache-twirling villains).
@@Interstellar-in5wb yeah! I was surprised to find that the first appearance of the Romulans wasn't a big space battle episode about this evil space empire, but rather an episode about racial prejudice
@@neelvaidya40 TOS is so awesome. And that episode is one of the finest. And the chess game aspect between strategic military commanders is just fantastic.
I'm actually a little disapointed about V'ger. I think there was enough personality and emotion showed there that it actually made for a compelling antagonist. The Whale Probe I will give you is just something to get the plot moving.
I love that IV doesn't really have a villain. You get some moustache twirling from the Klingon Ambassador (who even gets an arc come Star Trek VI!), obstacles put up by Dr Taylor's boss and the guy who tries to interrogate Chekov, and of course the Russian whalers who speak Finnish.
Tank Girl was cool though.... at the time it's not like the comics were well known in the US, I never saw the comics until after the movie dropped but if you want another overlooked movie with Malcolm McDowell as kinda the bad guy, try Blue Thunder, really good movie from the 80's and superb soundtrack score
@@Red_Lanterns_Rage I'm not saying Tank Girl is a bad film, far from it. I saw it three times in the cinema, but McDowell was hamming it up something ridiculous 😀
Khan, Chang and Kruge are probably my top 3. Followed probably by the Borg Queen. I flipflop between Khan and Chang but I think at the end of the day Khan wins out due to the personal connection even if I'm a huge Klingon fan. I really like the Borg Queen although I probably would've preferred the Borg to have remained an abstract gestalt construct without a focal point leader.
If I’m not mistaken, JJ Abrahms had Bana do multiple takes doing Nero’s dialogue with different direction on how to deliver the lines: casual vs. Brooding. They then just took the best takes and edited them together but created that inconsistency in Bana’s performance.
13:30 Soren's motivation is the most basic of all motives: Pure unadulterated selfishness. He goes after what he wants, and doesn't really care who he hurts to get it.
Regarding the criticism of the Borg Queen; a lot of people seem to misunderstand that she is not really an individual being. It's not really clear whether she created or leads the collective, she just is a representative speaking with one voice. That actually makes a lot of sense since interaction with humanoids is made a lot easier when you have one character talk to them. But as we can see in the franchise, the death of the Borg Queen doesn't really affect the entire collective, so she really isn't that much of a weak spot.
This. I don't think she neither created nor leads the collective, she's more just a locus of control (not to be confused with the psychological concept.) Ere go, knocking her out may be a weakness for the collective because it may cause some disorientation, but she's also a strength because, in her words, she brings "order to chaos" (which I interpret to mean, helps suppress individuality). That said, Voyager overused the heck out of her, and by demystifying her and making her more of a literal queen, kind of ruined her. But a Borg queen isn't a bad idea in First Contact alone (in my head canon she's a member of an assimilated highly evolved psychic species.)
Syboc was an excellent character, really complex, I agree with what you said. Star Trek 5 really has grown on me as I’ve gotten older, for all it’s problems it’s like a feature length TOS episode, the crew really feel like a family, Bill Shatner had something there, just a shame how it turned out with the writers strike and the VFX company screwing up.
The Borg Queen is interesting b/c it works as a concept. Lots of creatures we know work as a collective and have a queen - bees, hornets, ants, etc... The queen is *part* of the collective, they just have a different job than the workers or drones - nevertheless, they work as a collective. Source: I'm a beekeeper. :) Good video, keep up the good work!! Cheers.
I think the borg queen just needed to be stated as an emergency program to keep the borg unified after the trauma of time travel and losing connection to their overall collective. Or have her be something used by when the eldritch thought process of the borg has decided it is time to talk to the lesser races.
glad to see cybok get some appreciation, he was in film that let him down. as for benedicts khan i like to think he's what khan was like before getting obsessed with taking down kirk.
Great to hear your take on Soren, as it's so rare to hear people praise that character, let alone the movie itself. He is such a unique villain compared to the others, and one of the more sympathetic and engaging.
Here's my top five Star Trek villians: 5. "God" of Sha Ka Ree (Star Trek V) Because why does god need a starship? Real answer Sybok. Actually one of the more nuanced villains in Star Trek despite staring in one of the worst movies. 4. V'ger (Star Trek: TMP) A fascinating antagonist. To paraphrase Admiral Kirk... a new life-form with its own sense of purpose, out of our human weakness, and the drive that compels us to overcome them. 3. The Borg Queen (Star Trek: First Contact) Yes, it breaks the Borg but... Alice Krige is so deliciously subversive she makes me want to become a deviant myself. Resistance is futile. 2. Gen. Chang (Star Trek VI) A Klingon quoting Shakespeare while tearing the Federation a new hole. All I can say is "Cry Havoc! and let slip the dogs of war." 1. KHAAAAAN!!!! (Star Trek II) Hands down the GOAT! Montalban oozes so much charisma and menace it just rolls off his magnificent bare chest. He's so good they even named the film after him. Honourable mentions go to Robocop (Into Darkness), the whalers (Star Trek IV), the Reman not played by Tom Hardy (Nemesis) and the Ceti eel aka the worst pet ever!! (Star Trek II).
They haven't wasted anyone. They certainly didn't make full use of the potential at hand, but at the same time profited a lot from the talent drawn to its name.
While I would put the Queen above Saibok, I'm glad to see Saibok getting some love. I think he's actually a really great and interesting character. But like you said Star Trek V was pretty bad.
Kruge is far more Kirk’s equal than Khan ever was. Kruge is an experienced Klingon commander whose instincts about the damage to the Enterprise (based on Kirk’s actions) prove correct and he successfully manoeuvres Kirk into his only remaining option - destroying the Enterprise. Granted, Kruge didn’t know that was Kirk’s only option, but he correctly called Kirk’s bluff when he (Kirk) didn’t return fire when the Enterprise automation systems were knocked out by Kruge’s torpedo hits. Kirk is smarter than Khan and outwits him because he (Kirk) is a more experienced starship commander and has greater knowledge of space battle tactics. Khan is charismatic - that’s about it. He’s entertaining to watch and wants revenge. By the criteria set out at the start, he’s on the same level of Ru’Afo. Kruge, and also Chang for that matter, are superior villains over Khan. I have a bee in my bonnet about Khan, sorry.
You make a great argument about Khan .. Khan was entirely too emotional to make good decisions. He was driven by fury and revenge and he just recklessly threw himself into courses of action.
Even in "Space Seed", Khan comes across as pompous and preening and isn't terribly impressive, except physically. He doesn't ever present as some kind of great intellect. But Montalban is truly a joy to watch as an actor. Great charisma. But little else, character-wise.
@@Interstellar-in5wb I guess as revenge plots go (compared to Ru’afo, Shinzon, Nero, Khan again, and Krall) TWOK is a good one. But Spock sums it up best in the film for me: “he is intelligent. But not experienced”. I think the only time Khan outwits Kirk in TWOK is the opening phaser volley from Reliant, as Kirk is not expecting it. After that Kirk has the upper hand (the command codes, the coded messages on comms, the nebula) throughout the rest of the film - his only issue is the damage to Enterprise. That’s the real villain of Star Trek 2 😂
@@stevesoldwedel completely agree. Montalban is charismatic af - but I think Khan only ever really presented a physical challenge for Kirk in “space seed”, since Kirk was able to make him lose his temper at the dinner table (“we offered the world ORDER!!!”). I don’t think he was ever Kirk’s equal as a starship commander the way that Kruge and Chang both were. So by that definition (charisma but little character), and the point made about Ru’afo at the start of the video, Khan should have come as like second from bottom on this list 😂
Props. I feel like your point of bad concept but good execution is almost completely inverted with Soran in Generations. McDowell's performance is great, but the structure of the film's script and how it frames him as a villain is so lacking. The Duras sisters undermine his importance in the story and feel oddly ham-fisted in... and I think that's evident when you didn't even give them screen-time in this video! I *guess* I get that they wanted some lore cut for the movie, but if you're going for general audiences... why? Spend the screen time giving HIM authority and agency in the story. I genuinely like Soran... but man... the structure of Generations just falls flat given the concept of the film, both as a crossover and a TNG first outing.
You see, what you said about Shinzon is EXACTLY what I've been saying about him for a while now, too. Shinzon is such an interesting concept, but he ended up being wasted potential and straight-out over-the-top evil rather than an interesting exploration of a different Picard and tying to grapple with the dichotomy between the person he was raised to be and the person that he could be. Even if he did remain a villain, he could have been a lot more interesting and sympathetic, but no, Nemesis couldn't give us any of that. The sad thing is, that sort of conflict would've been perfect for something in the vein of TNG considering some of the stories we got with it, but its just a watered-down let-down at the end of the day
Kinda emblematic for the last TNG movies in general. There is a lot of promise for interesting moral conflict, but the movies just plays it straight like it's any other story.
Honestly, I'd have gone with Alexander Siddig for Kahn instead. Sure, it wouldn't be the first genetically engineered character he played in a Star Trek, but he'd have brought a bit more of his a-game to the part instead of phoning it in like Cumberbatch felt like he was doing(which I don't blame him for).
GREAT VIDEO!!!!!! I love them all, but I also feel there were MANY missed opportunities over the years. My list wouldn't be exactly the same, but I can't argue any of your reasoning. 😉👍
I don't think the Borg Queen is *completely* problematic. We've seen in TNG that when the Borg want to place an individual in a position of communication with others they have that option, as they did with Picard. Perhaps part of their collective involved the ability to "summon" the queen when the task required it instead of the standard "you will be assimilated" shtick.
Not completely problematic, but... kind of odd? And inconsistent? (Especially with how they use her in Voyager, where she messages the ship directly) Why did they need Locutus if they already had the queen? Sure it makes sense to assimilate Picard but why did they need him to "speak for them" if they already had an individual voice? A lot of the queen's potential as an idea was buried by Voyager who made here a 1-dimensional, regal leader.
Chang and Khan are so wonderful because if you take away the conflict, and just need to hang out for a while just talking to them, both are so full of charisma that you kind of forget they are supposed to be "bad" when the story gets going again. I mean, they both have that kind of intellect and wit that makes hanging out with them simply discussing philosophy or diplomacy or basically anything, would be really entertaining and educational.
I actually think that the events shown in Star Trek Picard actually retroactively makes Nero a much more intriguing and well rounded villain in my eyes. Because on first viewing he’s a villain looking for revenge and like you said, feels generic. But knowing the intricacies that came with what went on with the rescue fleet, the Android ban, and the attack on Mars that made the Federation essentially abandon the Romulans, it really boosts his motivations and emotional state, and almost makes him a tragic villain when I watch the film again.
While I still wish that Cumberbatch had either been Gary Mitchell or a completely new character, I think his version of Khan was interesting in that, for a bit, you could almost see him and Kirk as being tense frenemies. I’d like to have seen that dynamic continue and shifted the focus towards them fighting a common enemy in the Admiral. If Khan and his people had ended the movie leaving without warring with the Enterprise, it could have provided a good setup for an eventual showdown in a future story. That could have made the relationship between Kirk and Khan more developed and nuanced, as well as have allowed any potential Wrath of Khan remake moments in a later installment to have felt more earned.
The Borg used to be one of the best villans ever created. They went from being this terrible storm that they were forced into holding on, hoping to survive, to a joke. When at first they used to tremble in fear at the sight of the Borg, now they piss themselves laughing when they see them coming.
Ricardo Montalban's version of Khan is like a saber in the hands of a master. Unbelievably deadly but captivating to watch and beautiful in its way. Charming and menacing at the same time. Benedict Cumberbatch's version of Khan is more like a competition felling axe in the hands of a world champion. One purpose, one direction, unstoppable power. A menace that is more promise than hooded threat.
Krull would have been interesting if it wasn't basically the exact same twist as Insurrection. If I recall correctly, the trailers kind of spoiled the Nemesis twist that the villain was related to Picard, but basically it was the same "twist" as well. The villain is actually my old friend/captain/relative twist in Star Trek movies became as formulaic as the M Night Shyamalan twists.
They really ought to start working harder on main FEMALE villains - I mean, the Borg Queen is, essentially, the only one out of TEN movies, which is a pretty poor effort if you ask me.
@@redkommie80 Yeah, I liked them - but they seemed a bit "minor league" for me. Like you say, I want a grand female villain (like the Borg Queen) to take centre stage :)
DAMN!!! You forgot about Duras sistas from Generations and the Klingon from Final Frontier (he'd be like the bottom of the list) and the evil Starfleet admiral from Insurrecshun. :-(
You gave yourself a tough task with this one. Top three could be in any order, just preference but I lol'd with the "eewgh" Alice Krige's hooks in the skin comment 😂
Don't second guess yourself. Ruafu is indeed awful. Also, Sybok was a patsy, tricked into doing the bidding of an alien masquerading as God beyond the Great Barrier. That was the real villain in ST5. Sybok even sacrificed himself so the others could try to escape.
If John Harrison had been an Augment but a separate character from Khan, who designed and was intent on capturing the Vengeance to turn it over to Khan, reassembling his "family", it would have been so much better. They could have let Harrison get killed, but the rest of them actually get away, and have Khan in reserve for future movies (with motivation for revenge)...
I have two issues with Nero: 1. He's little more than a plot device to make the alternate timeline happen. 2. Material that could have fleshed out his character somewhat was cut from the movie! *sigh* Not a bad villain by any means, but far less interesting than he should have been. That said, I still love his "Hi Christopher, I'm Nero" line. While not an incredibly strong villain, I actually think that Admiral Marcus is the most compelling part of Star Trek Into Darkness. I don't agree with his methods, but I get his motivation. Unfortunately, so much of the bad guy focus is on Cumberbatch's Khan that we don't get to spend much time with Admiral Marcus. Wasted opportunity in my opinion. I have a soft spot for Kruge. I completely understand where he's coming from. He's concerned that the Federation might be able to conquer the Klingon Empire with this device he sees as the ultimate weapon. He wants it for himself so that he can balance the scales for his people and he's willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen. I consider him one of the better villains in the movies. I love Sybok. Like you alluded to, he's barely even a villain. He's likeable and even compassionate. And he drives one of the best scenes I've watched across all of the Star Trek movies (the one where he explores McCoy's pain). I agree with you on Krall. He was one of my favorite things about Star Trek Beyond. Soran's philosophical conversation with Picard was so good in my opinion. It seems like we rarely get scenes with the hero and the villain just having a conversation about the villain's worldview and how it contrasts with that of the hero. Christopher Plummer was excellent as General Chang. Perfect casting. Khan (the original) is still amazing. Such a great performance and such great material to work with.
Something I don't like about ST villains particularly from the TNG era onwards is how a rather large number of them is about revenge and/or destroying something. Even though I get why that's the case I also feel that's not quite representative of what ST in general is about. Revenge could be a lot more interesting when it was about more than just global destruction. Also, the best thing about The Final Frontier clearly is the music! ;) Seriously though, I think it's among Goldsmith's most beautiful scores.
Completely agree with your top 3. Should've also had secondary villains on the list like Admiral Dougherty from Insurrection, the Duras sisters from Generations or the God entity from TFF.
Cumberbatch's character would have been better served if he were cast as Khan's right-hand man, Joachim. The premise being that, when Starfleet/Section 31 uncovers the Botany Bay, they find out someone else had already gotten in and took Khan's sleeper tube. They revive Joachim instead and he offers his knowledge in exchange for Section 31's help in unraveling the mystery behind Khan's disappearance.
Here is my ranking: 1. Khan Noonien Singh - The Wrath Of Khan 2. Vyger - The Motion Picture 3. Syboc - The Final Frontier 4. General Chang - The Undiscovered Country 5. The Borg Queen - First Contact 6. Commander Kruge - The Search For Spock 7. Dr Tolian Soran - Generations 8. Khan Noonien Singh - Into Darkness 9. Nero - Star Trek '09 10. Ahdar Ru'afo - Insurrection 11. Praetor Shinzon - Nemesis I haven't seen Star Trek Beyond, lmao.
My ranking: 14. "God" alien (The Final Frontier) 13. Captain Klaa (The Final Frontier) 12. Ru'afo (Insurrection) 11. Nero (Star Trek 2009) 10. Krall (Beyond) 9. Sybok (The Final Frontier) 8. Khan/John Harrison (Into Darkness) 7. Shinzon (Nemesis) 6. Admiral Marcus (Into Darkness) 5. Tolian Soren (Generations) 4. Kruge (The Search For Spock) 3. Borg Queen (First Contact) 2. Chang (The Undiscovered Country) 1. Khan (The Wrath of Khan)
Any plot involving time travel or instant massive transporter distance, where the villain can fix the problems he has a grudge over instantly really make the whole movie less fun 5 min after leaving the theater.
A good list, I would of had Kruge and the Borg Queen higher up, but it is individual taste. Only one I strongly disagree with is how highly you ranked the Star Beyond villain but not having watched that movie recently the only things that come to mind are the things that antagonized me, win by playing music very loud in the vacuum of space = head explodes. Still I have been really looking forward to this video and really enjoyed it
I think Shinzon and Admiral Alexander Marcus are actually interesting villains. I also think that Admiral Matthew Dougherty should have been the main villain of Insurrection instead of Ruafo. Zerbe knows how to play villains, he played some bad guys in the original Mission Impossible series and Milton Krest in the Bond movie Licence to Kill in 1989 .
Admiral Marcus would have been served better had Khan never been in the movie to begin with. Corrupt Starfleet brass created such intense moments in the shows, it would have been great for an Admiral on a warpath with the neighboring beta quadrant powers to get his own film.
5:55 you can't say R-e on RUclips that's fucked up its happens everyday and the fact Google would want to censor that is kind of sick. I learned something today.
The first Khan is originally a TELEVISION villain. Also, Sybok is not a villain, bent on galactic conquest and whatnot; Klingon Captain Klaa is arguably the true villain in that misbegotten film.
That's what I thought too. Also, is V'ger really a villain? Wasn't it just a machine trying to carry out its mission to gather information and return it to its creator?
@@AncestorEmpire1 I've heard the theory that the Borg upgraded V'ger elsewhere. I forgot about the child like aspect of V'ger and its desire to join with its creator. It's been decades since I watched that film.
@@AncestorEmpire1 agreed. The Borg would make more sense as I am sure they made reference to V'ger crashed on a "machine planet" which sounds more like the Borg than Q. I loved the character of Q, especially in the novelisations.
John Fredrick Paxton, Peter Weller's villian from the Enterprise finale two-parter, is great. Shinzon was such a great idea, and Nemesis was so close to being excellent but that ball-drop was sad.
Right. Montalbán as Khan is the greatest villain in Trek. When I watched the movie the first time, be being a child and not yet having watches Space Seed, I was afraid of Khan. I felt his ruthlessness. And I understood why he had followers, since he is a narcist on steroids. Charming if it helps his cause. While vile, Khan held a grudge I could understand. I did not hate Khan, especially since his fate was caused by the hero's negligence. He is cruel, executes people, but he also enjoys when he can hurt his enemy. In those moments I noticed I have a bit of Khan in me. While it is unethical, I understood Khan.
Definitely agree with Khan being number 1, but it would have been interesting to compare these villains with the antagonists in the motion picture and voyage home. Also I think any list of great Star Trek Villains absolutely needs to include Gul Dukhat, Weyoun and Kai Winn.
What I did like about Khan was that it was a far better representation of someone who’s genetically engineered giving us both the mental and physical strength of a super soldier. Yes, we saw that in TOS a bit but for me personally I couldn’t get behind that when I watched Space Seed as it is far too obviously a set and choreographed stunts as opposed to realistic fights in Star Trek Into Darkness, especially in the Vengeance corridor where Khan easily overpowers three of its crew members. With the TOS episodes (and even starting with the TNG-VOY episodes) as the show goes on and technology advances, for my personal tastes the shows age worse and worse because it’s obvious that those are sets from the 60s and 80-90s respectively with outdated buttons and tapes in TOS and touch screen keyboard buttons without the ability to swipe or send data to a PADD (essentially e-books with the capacity to only hold one book!). It might’ve been sci-fi in the 60s and 80s but for me it’s not realistic anymore, which is why, from an aesthetic and technological standpoint at least, I prefer modern Star Trek. And that is true for any long-running sci-fi show like Doctor Who or the original Star Wars. I can just see how outdated the technology is.
I agree with your list except for Krall. He is by far the weakest villain. I never liked him. I just rewatched it hoping to see any of what you were saying about him but I still find him the worst of all Star Trek villains.
Krall from Beyond is probably the biggest missed opportunity for a villain, even moreso than Ru'afo from Viagraworld. Just having a movie about a Romulan War veteran without the secrets, reveals, and twists padding out the film so you can't get to know the character would have made for a much stronger character. Like Ru'afo, the fact that the character is interesting at all is used as a third act twist near the end of the movie, which means you spend the majority of the film not being very interested in him. Especially since a Romulan killed Kirk and Spock's family. There's a ton of character stuff to explore there as a direct consequence from the first film.
Comparing the two Khans only really works if you compare them as characters in each respective first appearance. The Wrath of Khan’s Khan already has a history with Kirk and 15 years of resentment and hatred festering. That would obviously add tremendously to the character. Whereas both Space Seed’s and Into Darkness’s Khans are only encountering Kirk for the first time as happenstance.
You missed the most heinous of all Star Trek Movie, no Star Trek villains ever: Punk on the Bus
The whale probe was robbed I say, ROBBED!
I demand a recount. Or a redefinition. Or whatever gets WhaleTube on the list.
It wasn't a villain.
It's unclear if it has any agency. But if it does, it does not appear to be aware of the impact it is having on te surface.
It's basically like going up to a dark room that had someone with whom you were talking, asking "you still there? Kinda quiet now buddy" and accidentally breathing onto a sentient anthill that can't handle the stink of your breath...
The big villain in the movie was time itself. Or maybe the goofball whalers that tried to harpoon a Bird of prey 😛
The great thing about STIV is that there is no villain .. and I agree that the whale probe had no idea of the impact it was having on the earth’s other creatures or on human civilization .. when all you know is whales you’re not even able to process or conceive of anything outside of that. The image I got was that the whale probe had no idea of anything else going on on the planet.
The real villain of Star Trek IV is Bob
There's a short story called Twilight's Wrath in the 'Tales of the Dominion War' collection that follows Shinzon as a general during the Dominion War, leading Reman shock troops.
Really interesting stuff, worth a read.
I have to say, Nero's "hello" is one of the best opening lines ever, purely because of his dry delivery.
The moment he came on I thought 'ohhhhh dear it's gonna be one of those baddies', then he spoke and I immediately flipped and loved him.
Other villains always show some decorum, but everything about him shows that he just doesn't care about or is impressed by the people on his screen.
Hi Chris, I'm Nero!
Hi Freeze, I'm Batman...
I always liked thinking of it as Nero spitting in Pike's face, not even addressing him as one captain to another. He knows he's got the biggest, baddest ship in the quadrant, he came off of slaughtering federation task force, and here's this lone Starfleet captain with the sheer nuts to make demands of him. He's not some puffed up Romulan officer, he's a civilian out for blood. Decorum was never in his repertoire and it shows, especially with his impulsive explosions of violence that I always saw as the evil that Vulcans fought hard to suppress with logic.
"It has happened! I watched it happen! I saw it happen! Don't tell me it didn't happen!" is an all-time great villain line, in my opinion. Maybe Rowan mentioned this, but the video isn't loading for me at the moment.
meh... afaik (from sfdebris) his backstory is great in the comic (or novelization, not sure), but i haven't read it, and since it's not in the movie it doesn't count. movie nero (we'll call him larry) is hella lame... just some guy
@@mikeharry1799 some guy with equipment playing on god-mode.
YOU DIDN'T RANK THE WHALE PROBE!!!! WHAAAAAATT IM SO UPSET haha
Khan is clearly #1 but Dukat is the greatest Trek villain ever.
Only reason I think that Khan is 1 and Dukat 2 is that with Khan you almost get as much of a character as Dukat. The thing is Khan only had 1 EPISODE and a roughly 2 hour movie to develop while Dukat had 7 seasons of a series. The fact that Khan can rival Dukat with so much less material and time taken on him is what imo pushes him above Dukat.
After watching DS9 I have to agree. One of the only villains we really truly live with and get to know!
Dukat, i felt, and I'm not attacking ya just my take, was too easy to defeat and depended so much on others to get anything done. Really he is just a serial rapist with a narcissistic ego but I never saw him as a threat. If anything, the pawraiths (however it is spelled) are more "villainous"
Season 7 of Dukat is just pants. I love you Dukat, but that ending for you was saddddd.
@@simondaniel4028 Agreed the whole pah-wraith Dukat was terrible. Should have kept him as he was.
Loyd's character in Star Trek 3 is a bit underrated. There are some subtle bits that show there's more to the character than we see, like when he somberly kills his loyal underling for looking at the Genesis plans and the underling's acceptance of that death. Definitely would've been great to give him a bit more screen time and flesh him out more so that death would've been much more satisfying.
@@SimuLord sounds like it was fun. Now, it's called "riffing" with Mike and Joel both still making money doing it in their own ways.
I agree with all the placements except Syboc and the Borg Queen. She should have been higher, and I think you’re inflating him because he looks good in comparison to the rest of the movie.
Kruge is a very underrated villain in my opinion. He felt as one of the best Klingons. He has his honor, but doesn't keep himself blinded to all else, and you can see he's hurt by the death of his crew. And Lloyd gives it his all, sadly he had to follow a legendary performance and that left him to be buried
I remember how I reacted to the news of Christopher Lloyd playing a Star Trek Klingon..."Christopher Lloyd??? as a Klingon??? He's a comedian!!!"
I had no confidence in this. I dreaded the idea of Klingon Rev. Jim Ignatowski (I don't remember if "Back To The Future" had come out by then - I knew Christopher Lloyd as Rev. Jim Ignatowski on "Taxi". In fact, we had a joke about C.L. playing Kruge at the time:
KRUGE: "Give me Genesis!!!"
KIRK: "No."
KRUGE: "Okay."
He did considerably better then I expected, but I still in my mind see "Klingon Rev. Jim Ignatowski".
he was great, second favorite Klingon villain after Chang, as movies go.😊
You know what's great about a work of fiction? Millions of fans will have different preferences. Isn't it wonderful that we can all argue what our favourite parts of the franchise are without mocking other people's choices?
I read through some of the other comments and they made me sad. Why can some people only build up what they like by tearing down what other people like? Rowan did a really good job of saying what HE liked or disliked about each one without without trying to invalidate anyone else's opinions.
Noticing a bit of a theme here, the actors are all brilliant and either ham it up like no tomorrow or project subtle menace. The real make or break is the material they're given to work with. Sort of a reflection of the whole Star Trek franchise as a whole. Or maybe I should say a *"Dark Mirror"*?... I'll see myself out.
I've recently started watching the original series, and after only having watched the Abrams movies and bits of the Shatner Nemoy movies growing up, it was really surprising to me that so many of the episodes don't really have "villains" in the traditional sense
And because the concept of a villain is a very “us vs them” mentality, where the “other side” is just “all bad”, which Star Trek was never really about (the TOS Klingons notwithstanding - they were pretty close to mustache-twirling villains).
@@Interstellar-in5wb yeah! I was surprised to find that the first appearance of the Romulans wasn't a big space battle episode about this evil space empire, but rather an episode about racial prejudice
@@neelvaidya40 TOS is so awesome. And that episode is one of the finest. And the chess game aspect between strategic military commanders is just fantastic.
You forgot the worst villian! Paramount Studios!
"V'ger and the Whale Probe will not be appearing on this list."
*stops watching* (jk)
I'm actually a little disapointed about V'ger. I think there was enough personality and emotion showed there that it actually made for a compelling antagonist. The Whale Probe I will give you is just something to get the plot moving.
I love that IV doesn't really have a villain. You get some moustache twirling from the Klingon Ambassador (who even gets an arc come Star Trek VI!), obstacles put up by Dr Taylor's boss and the guy who tries to interrogate Chekov, and of course the Russian whalers who speak Finnish.
V'ger wasn't a villain just looking for it's creator
Because they're not really villain's that's why
"Malcolm McDowell is literally always great in everything, and this is no exception" cough cough Tank Girl
I said what I said!
Tank Girl was cool though....
at the time it's not like the comics were well known in the US, I never saw the comics until after the movie dropped
but if you want another overlooked movie with Malcolm McDowell as kinda the bad guy, try Blue Thunder, really good movie from the 80's and superb soundtrack score
@@Red_Lanterns_Rage I'm not saying Tank Girl is a bad film, far from it. I saw it three times in the cinema, but McDowell was hamming it up something ridiculous 😀
Without Tank Girl we wouldn't have had My Chemical Romance's "Danger Days," so I'll take it as it is.
What do you mean? He's awesome there as well.
"Say it! Say that I've won!"
"I've won!"
"NOOOOO!"
conclusion: lot's of great actors wasted because of bad scripts.
Khan, Chang and Kruge are probably my top 3. Followed probably by the Borg Queen. I flipflop between Khan and Chang but I think at the end of the day Khan wins out due to the personal connection even if I'm a huge Klingon fan. I really like the Borg Queen although I probably would've preferred the Borg to have remained an abstract gestalt construct without a focal point leader.
If I’m not mistaken, JJ Abrahms had Bana do multiple takes doing Nero’s dialogue with different direction on how to deliver the lines: casual vs. Brooding. They then just took the best takes and edited them together but created that inconsistency in Bana’s performance.
I actually like the inconsistency in his performance. Makes him seem more threatening and unhinged
13:30 Soren's motivation is the most basic of all motives: Pure unadulterated selfishness. He goes after what he wants, and doesn't really care who he hurts to get it.
Regarding the criticism of the Borg Queen; a lot of people seem to misunderstand that she is not really an individual being. It's not really clear whether she created or leads the collective, she just is a representative speaking with one voice. That actually makes a lot of sense since interaction with humanoids is made a lot easier when you have one character talk to them. But as we can see in the franchise, the death of the Borg Queen doesn't really affect the entire collective, so she really isn't that much of a weak spot.
This.
I don't think she neither created nor leads the collective, she's more just a locus of control (not to be confused with the psychological concept.)
Ere go, knocking her out may be a weakness for the collective because it may cause some disorientation, but she's also a strength because, in her words, she brings "order to chaos" (which I interpret to mean, helps suppress individuality).
That said, Voyager overused the heck out of her, and by demystifying her and making her more of a literal queen, kind of ruined her. But a Borg queen isn't a bad idea in First Contact alone (in my head canon she's a member of an assimilated highly evolved psychic species.)
"Both of these characters in Khan-cept." Didn't slip by me.
KHAN......KHAAAAANN!!!!
😈
Syboc was an excellent character, really complex, I agree with what you said. Star Trek 5 really has grown on me as I’ve gotten older, for all it’s problems it’s like a feature length TOS episode, the crew really feel like a family, Bill Shatner had something there, just a shame how it turned out with the writers strike and the VFX company screwing up.
Great video Rowan
The Borg Queen is interesting b/c it works as a concept. Lots of creatures we know work as a collective and have a queen - bees, hornets, ants, etc... The queen is *part* of the collective, they just have a different job than the workers or drones - nevertheless, they work as a collective. Source: I'm a beekeeper. :) Good video, keep up the good work!! Cheers.
I think the borg queen just needed to be stated as an emergency program to keep the borg unified after the trauma of time travel and losing connection to their overall collective. Or have her be something used by when the eldritch thought process of the borg has decided it is time to talk to the lesser races.
glad to see cybok get some appreciation, he was in film that let him down.
as for benedicts khan i like to think he's what khan was like before getting obsessed with taking down kirk.
Anyone who would put Kruge so low, is clearly someone who doesn’t understand nor probably even like Star Trek
needed this today
Great to hear your take on Soren, as it's so rare to hear people praise that character, let alone the movie itself. He is such a unique villain compared to the others, and one of the more sympathetic and engaging.
Here's my top five Star Trek villians:
5. "God" of Sha Ka Ree (Star Trek V)
Because why does god need a starship? Real answer Sybok. Actually one of the more nuanced villains in Star Trek despite staring in one of the worst movies.
4. V'ger (Star Trek: TMP)
A fascinating antagonist. To paraphrase Admiral Kirk... a new life-form with its own sense of purpose, out of our human weakness, and the drive that compels us to overcome them.
3. The Borg Queen (Star Trek: First Contact)
Yes, it breaks the Borg but... Alice Krige is so deliciously subversive she makes me want to become a deviant myself. Resistance is futile.
2. Gen. Chang (Star Trek VI)
A Klingon quoting Shakespeare while tearing the Federation a new hole. All I can say is "Cry Havoc! and let slip the dogs of war."
1. KHAAAAAN!!!! (Star Trek II)
Hands down the GOAT! Montalban oozes so much charisma and menace it just rolls off his magnificent bare chest. He's so good they even named the film after him.
Honourable mentions go to Robocop (Into Darkness), the whalers (Star Trek IV), the Reman not played by Tom Hardy (Nemesis) and the Ceti eel aka the worst pet ever!! (Star Trek II).
Ron Perlman played the Reman viceroy.
@@YggdrasilAudio Honourable mention Hellboy (Nemesis).
The takeaway here is that the Star Trek movies have really wasted some incredible actors over the years.
Star Trek seems to work rarely in movie format.
They haven't wasted anyone. They certainly didn't make full use of the potential at hand, but at the same time profited a lot from the talent drawn to its name.
Cumberbatch's Kahn was never discovered by Kirk and the enterprise therefore Kahn never experienced a desolate existence on Ceti Alpha 5 by Kirk.
While I would put the Queen above Saibok, I'm glad to see Saibok getting some love. I think he's actually a really great and interesting character. But like you said Star Trek V was pretty bad.
Kruge is far more Kirk’s equal than Khan ever was. Kruge is an experienced Klingon commander whose instincts about the damage to the Enterprise (based on Kirk’s actions) prove correct and he successfully manoeuvres Kirk into his only remaining option - destroying the Enterprise. Granted, Kruge didn’t know that was Kirk’s only option, but he correctly called Kirk’s bluff when he (Kirk) didn’t return fire when the Enterprise automation systems were knocked out by Kruge’s torpedo hits.
Kirk is smarter than Khan and outwits him because he (Kirk) is a more experienced starship commander and has greater knowledge of space battle tactics.
Khan is charismatic - that’s about it. He’s entertaining to watch and wants revenge. By the criteria set out at the start, he’s on the same level of Ru’Afo.
Kruge, and also Chang for that matter, are superior villains over Khan.
I have a bee in my bonnet about Khan, sorry.
@strobava fwiffo great Scott! 😂
You make a great argument about Khan .. Khan was entirely too emotional to make good decisions. He was driven by fury and revenge and he just recklessly threw himself into courses of action.
Even in "Space Seed", Khan comes across as pompous and preening and isn't terribly impressive, except physically. He doesn't ever present as some kind of great intellect. But Montalban is truly a joy to watch as an actor. Great charisma. But little else, character-wise.
@@Interstellar-in5wb I guess as revenge plots go (compared to Ru’afo, Shinzon, Nero, Khan again, and Krall) TWOK is a good one. But Spock sums it up best in the film for me: “he is intelligent. But not experienced”.
I think the only time Khan outwits Kirk in TWOK is the opening phaser volley from Reliant, as Kirk is not expecting it. After that Kirk has the upper hand (the command codes, the coded messages on comms, the nebula) throughout the rest of the film - his only issue is the damage to Enterprise. That’s the real villain of Star Trek 2 😂
@@stevesoldwedel completely agree. Montalban is charismatic af - but I think Khan only ever really presented a physical challenge for Kirk in “space seed”, since Kirk was able to make him lose his temper at the dinner table (“we offered the world ORDER!!!”). I don’t think he was ever Kirk’s equal as a starship commander the way that Kruge and Chang both were.
So by that definition (charisma but little character), and the point made about Ru’afo at the start of the video, Khan should have come as like second from bottom on this list 😂
the khan and marcus was just too much villain ...they needed to pick one or the other and I think either of them would have worked better seperately .
Props. I feel like your point of bad concept but good execution is almost completely inverted with Soran in Generations. McDowell's performance is great, but the structure of the film's script and how it frames him as a villain is so lacking. The Duras sisters undermine his importance in the story and feel oddly ham-fisted in... and I think that's evident when you didn't even give them screen-time in this video! I *guess* I get that they wanted some lore cut for the movie, but if you're going for general audiences... why? Spend the screen time giving HIM authority and agency in the story. I genuinely like Soran... but man... the structure of Generations just falls flat given the concept of the film, both as a crossover and a TNG first outing.
Terrible movie
KHAAAAANNNNN!!!!!
You see, what you said about Shinzon is EXACTLY what I've been saying about him for a while now, too. Shinzon is such an interesting concept, but he ended up being wasted potential and straight-out over-the-top evil rather than an interesting exploration of a different Picard and tying to grapple with the dichotomy between the person he was raised to be and the person that he could be. Even if he did remain a villain, he could have been a lot more interesting and sympathetic, but no, Nemesis couldn't give us any of that. The sad thing is, that sort of conflict would've been perfect for something in the vein of TNG considering some of the stories we got with it, but its just a watered-down let-down at the end of the day
romans mistreated him but want revenge on earth was JUST SO STUPID
Kinda emblematic for the last TNG movies in general. There is a lot of promise for interesting moral conflict, but the movies just plays it straight like it's any other story.
Loved this! Awesome content, as always. Many thanks from me and Quillemina the Sci-fi loving hedgehog. 💕🦔
A Villain video is a dish best served cold. 🖖
Honestly, I'd have gone with Alexander Siddig for Kahn instead. Sure, it wouldn't be the first genetically engineered character he played in a Star Trek, but he'd have brought a bit more of his a-game to the part instead of phoning it in like Cumberbatch felt like he was doing(which I don't blame him for).
One of the best "villain performances" would go to Harris Yulin as the fake Gul Darheel aka Amin Maritza in DS9's Duet.
Absolutely riveting.
1. Khan (Montalban)
2. General Chang
3. The Borg Queen
4. Kruge
5. Sybok
6. Krall/ Captain Edison
7. Admiral Marcus
8. Shinzon
9. Khan (Cumberbatch)
10. Tolian Soren
11. Nero
12. Ru'faio
GREAT VIDEO!!!!!! I love them all, but I also feel there were MANY missed opportunities over the years. My list wouldn't be exactly the same, but I can't argue any of your reasoning. 😉👍
I don't think the Borg Queen is *completely* problematic. We've seen in TNG that when the Borg want to place an individual in a position of communication with others they have that option, as they did with Picard. Perhaps part of their collective involved the ability to "summon" the queen when the task required it instead of the standard "you will be assimilated" shtick.
Not completely problematic, but... kind of odd? And inconsistent? (Especially with how they use her in Voyager, where she messages the ship directly)
Why did they need Locutus if they already had the queen?
Sure it makes sense to assimilate Picard but why did they need him to "speak for them" if they already had an individual voice? A lot of the queen's potential as an idea was buried by Voyager who made here a 1-dimensional, regal leader.
Rowan: At number ten...
Let me guess? Shinzon?
Rowan: Rowafu from Insurrection.
Oh, Color me surprised.
Chang and Khan are so wonderful because if you take away the conflict, and just need to hang out for a while just talking to them, both are so full of charisma that you kind of forget they are supposed to be "bad" when the story gets going again. I mean, they both have that kind of intellect and wit that makes hanging out with them simply discussing philosophy or diplomacy or basically anything, would be really entertaining and educational.
I personally would've placed the Borg Queen just below Montalban's Khan. It's a personal choice. I just love her so much.
Alice Krige is always great.
I actually think that the events shown in Star Trek Picard actually retroactively makes Nero a much more intriguing and well rounded villain in my eyes. Because on first viewing he’s a villain looking for revenge and like you said, feels generic. But knowing the intricacies that came with what went on with the rescue fleet, the Android ban, and the attack on Mars that made the Federation essentially abandon the Romulans, it really boosts his motivations and emotional state, and almost makes him a tragic villain when I watch the film again.
Please do a ranking for show villains… would love to hear mention of Garek.
While I still wish that Cumberbatch had either been Gary Mitchell or a completely new character, I think his version of Khan was interesting in that, for a bit, you could almost see him and Kirk as being tense frenemies. I’d like to have seen that dynamic continue and shifted the focus towards them fighting a common enemy in the Admiral. If Khan and his people had ended the movie leaving without warring with the Enterprise, it could have provided a good setup for an eventual showdown in a future story. That could have made the relationship between Kirk and Khan more developed and nuanced, as well as have allowed any potential Wrath of Khan remake moments in a later installment to have felt more earned.
Sybok that high up? Sybok? Crumbs. Lol
I thought the same thing. 🤔
just subscribed!
"Lucky shot, sir." (I'm gonna die.)
The Borg used to be one of the best villans ever created. They went from being this terrible storm that they were forced into holding on, hoping to survive, to a joke. When at first they used to tremble in fear at the sight of the Borg, now they piss themselves laughing when they see them coming.
Ricardo Montalban's version of Khan is like a saber in the hands of a master. Unbelievably deadly but captivating to watch and beautiful in its way. Charming and menacing at the same time. Benedict Cumberbatch's version of Khan is more like a competition felling axe in the hands of a world champion. One purpose, one direction, unstoppable power. A menace that is more promise than hooded threat.
General Chang needs more love. He'll, so does that whole movie. It's soo good!
Sybok was way higher on this list than I'd anticipated, but I don't disagree at all.
The lost of family is a powerful motivation and that would cost anyone to snap and it would turn into a most dangerous villain
Krull would have been interesting if it wasn't basically the exact same twist as Insurrection. If I recall correctly, the trailers kind of spoiled the Nemesis twist that the villain was related to Picard, but basically it was the same "twist" as well. The villain is actually my old friend/captain/relative twist in Star Trek movies became as formulaic as the M Night Shyamalan twists.
Really enjoying the vid but I would argue that in errand of mercy and day of the dove in the OG series did make the Klingons deeper
They really ought to start working harder on main FEMALE villains - I mean, the Borg Queen is, essentially, the only one out of TEN movies, which is a pretty poor effort if you ask me.
There are the Duras sisters, but I know what you are getting at. I would really like to see a grand female villain take chsrge.
@@redkommie80 Yeah, I liked them - but they seemed a bit "minor league" for me. Like you say, I want a grand female villain (like the Borg Queen) to take centre stage :)
It needs its own 'Electra King'!
I think the Borg Queen is fucking awesome, she's the only villain to even come close to how good Khan was.
Tremendous acting. She was SO creepy and ominous.
DAMN!!!
You forgot about Duras sistas from Generations and the Klingon from Final Frontier (he'd be like the bottom of the list) and the evil Starfleet admiral from Insurrecshun. :-(
I thought about including the Duras sisters, but they carried over from the show so I count them as TV villains. Great characters though :)
@@RowanJColeman
So was Khan.
You should have mentioned the Duras sister's because Khan was from tos also.
But what about the Taxi Driver from IV?
He came *so* close in killing Kirk.
didn't expect Sybok to be so high on this list.
You gave yourself a tough task with this one. Top three could be in any order, just preference but I lol'd with the "eewgh" Alice Krige's hooks in the skin comment 😂
I agree that Shinzon, could have been amazing and wasn't. That movie was my least favorite Next Gen movie, and Next Gen is my favorite Trek.
Don't second guess yourself. Ruafu is indeed awful.
Also, Sybok was a patsy, tricked into doing the bidding of an alien masquerading as God beyond the Great Barrier. That was the real villain in ST5. Sybok even sacrificed himself so the others could try to escape.
If John Harrison had been an Augment but a separate character from Khan, who designed and was intent on capturing the Vengeance to turn it over to Khan, reassembling his "family", it would have been so much better. They could have let Harrison get killed, but the rest of them actually get away, and have Khan in reserve for future movies (with motivation for revenge)...
I have two issues with Nero: 1. He's little more than a plot device to make the alternate timeline happen. 2. Material that could have fleshed out his character somewhat was cut from the movie! *sigh* Not a bad villain by any means, but far less interesting than he should have been. That said, I still love his "Hi Christopher, I'm Nero" line.
While not an incredibly strong villain, I actually think that Admiral Marcus is the most compelling part of Star Trek Into Darkness. I don't agree with his methods, but I get his motivation. Unfortunately, so much of the bad guy focus is on Cumberbatch's Khan that we don't get to spend much time with Admiral Marcus. Wasted opportunity in my opinion.
I have a soft spot for Kruge. I completely understand where he's coming from. He's concerned that the Federation might be able to conquer the Klingon Empire with this device he sees as the ultimate weapon. He wants it for himself so that he can balance the scales for his people and he's willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen. I consider him one of the better villains in the movies.
I love Sybok. Like you alluded to, he's barely even a villain. He's likeable and even compassionate. And he drives one of the best scenes I've watched across all of the Star Trek movies (the one where he explores McCoy's pain).
I agree with you on Krall. He was one of my favorite things about Star Trek Beyond.
Soran's philosophical conversation with Picard was so good in my opinion. It seems like we rarely get scenes with the hero and the villain just having a conversation about the villain's worldview and how it contrasts with that of the hero.
Christopher Plummer was excellent as General Chang. Perfect casting.
Khan (the original) is still amazing. Such a great performance and such great material to work with.
Something I don't like about ST villains particularly from the TNG era onwards is how a rather large number of them is about revenge and/or destroying something. Even though I get why that's the case I also feel that's not quite representative of what ST in general is about. Revenge could be a lot more interesting when it was about more than just global destruction.
Also, the best thing about The Final Frontier clearly is the music! ;) Seriously though, I think it's among Goldsmith's most beautiful scores.
Completely agree with your top 3. Should've also had secondary villains on the list like Admiral Dougherty from Insurrection, the Duras sisters from Generations or the God entity from TFF.
Cumberbatch's character would have been better served if he were cast as Khan's right-hand man, Joachim.
The premise being that, when Starfleet/Section 31 uncovers the Botany Bay, they find out someone else had already gotten in and took Khan's sleeper tube. They revive Joachim instead and he offers his knowledge in exchange for Section 31's help in unraveling the mystery behind Khan's disappearance.
Here is my ranking:
1. Khan Noonien Singh - The Wrath Of Khan
2. Vyger - The Motion Picture
3. Syboc - The Final Frontier
4. General Chang - The Undiscovered Country
5. The Borg Queen - First Contact
6. Commander Kruge - The Search For Spock
7. Dr Tolian Soran - Generations
8. Khan Noonien Singh - Into Darkness
9. Nero - Star Trek '09
10. Ahdar Ru'afo - Insurrection
11. Praetor Shinzon - Nemesis
I haven't seen Star Trek Beyond, lmao.
My ranking:
14. "God" alien (The Final Frontier)
13. Captain Klaa (The Final Frontier)
12. Ru'afo (Insurrection)
11. Nero (Star Trek 2009)
10. Krall (Beyond)
9. Sybok (The Final Frontier)
8. Khan/John Harrison (Into Darkness)
7. Shinzon (Nemesis)
6. Admiral Marcus (Into Darkness)
5. Tolian Soren (Generations)
4. Kruge (The Search For Spock)
3. Borg Queen (First Contact)
2. Chang (The Undiscovered Country)
1. Khan (The Wrath of Khan)
Any plot involving time travel or instant massive transporter distance, where the villain can fix the problems he has a grudge over instantly really make the whole movie less fun 5 min after leaving the theater.
A good list, I would of had Kruge and the Borg Queen higher up, but it is individual taste. Only one I strongly disagree with is how highly you ranked the Star Beyond villain but not having watched that movie recently the only things that come to mind are the things that antagonized me, win by playing music very loud in the vacuum of space = head explodes.
Still I have been really looking forward to this video and really enjoyed it
I think Shinzon and Admiral Alexander Marcus are actually interesting villains.
I also think that Admiral Matthew Dougherty should have been the
main villain of Insurrection instead
of Ruafo. Zerbe knows how to play
villains, he played some bad guys
in the original Mission Impossible
series and Milton Krest in the Bond
movie Licence to Kill in 1989 .
Admiral Marcus would have been served better had Khan never been in the movie to begin with. Corrupt Starfleet brass created such intense moments in the shows, it would have been great for an Admiral on a warpath with the neighboring beta quadrant powers to get his own film.
5:55 you can't say R-e on RUclips that's fucked up
its happens everyday and the fact Google would want to censor that is kind of sick. I learned something today.
My opinions usually change:
1) Khan (Wrath of Khan)
2) Khan (Into Darkness)
3) Chang
4) Borg Queen
5) Kruge
6) Shinzon
7) Sybok
8) Krall
9) Soran
10) Admiral Marcus
11) Nero
12) Ru'afo
I see, here is my Trek Movie Villains Ranking.
1)Khan (1982)
2)Captain Balthazar Edison/Krall (2016)
3)General Chang (1991)
4)Kruge (1984)
5)Shinzon (2002)
6)Sybok (1989)
7)The Borg Queen (1996)
8)Admiral Markis (2013)
9)Khan (2013)
10)Tolian Soran (1994)
11)Nero (2009)
12)Ru'afo (1998)
The first Khan is originally a TELEVISION villain. Also, Sybok is not a villain, bent on galactic conquest and whatnot; Klingon Captain Klaa is arguably the true villain in that misbegotten film.
@@bonghunezhou5051 You serious? What are your Star Trek Movie Villains Ranking?
I don't know if this has been done but the TV shows villains rank but for recurring ones.
Voyager isn’t really the villain in Stark Trek 1, from a certain point of view, the villain was Kirk and his obsession to captain the Enterprise.
That's what I thought too. Also, is V'ger really a villain?
Wasn't it just a machine trying to carry out its mission to gather information and return it to its creator?
@@Nilsy1975 more like a child returning home after a long period of time.
In my own head canon, Voyager was the beginning of the borg.
@@AncestorEmpire1 I've heard the theory that the Borg upgraded V'ger elsewhere. I forgot about the child like aspect of V'ger and its desire to join with its creator.
It's been decades since I watched that film.
@@Nilsy1975 it would make some sense.
That or the Q’s modifying V’s design to some point.
@@AncestorEmpire1 agreed. The Borg would make more sense as I am sure they made reference to V'ger crashed on a "machine planet" which sounds more like the Borg than Q.
I loved the character of Q, especially in the novelisations.
John Fredrick Paxton, Peter Weller's villian from the Enterprise finale two-parter, is great. Shinzon was such a great idea, and Nemesis was so close to being excellent but that ball-drop was sad.
You really need to play the canonical Klingon Academy for such an incredible insight into General Chang.
Right. Montalbán as Khan is the greatest villain in Trek. When I watched the movie the first time, be being a child and not yet having watches Space Seed, I was afraid of Khan. I felt his ruthlessness. And I understood why he had followers, since he is a narcist on steroids. Charming if it helps his cause. While vile, Khan held a grudge I could understand. I did not hate Khan, especially since his fate was caused by the hero's negligence. He is cruel, executes people, but he also enjoys when he can hurt his enemy.
In those moments I noticed I have a bit of Khan in me. While it is unethical, I understood Khan.
Definitely agree with Khan being number 1, but it would have been interesting to compare these villains with the antagonists in the motion picture and voyage home. Also I think any list of great Star Trek Villains absolutely needs to include Gul Dukhat, Weyoun and Kai Winn.
Everyone on this list would have been humbled by Lore, had Brent Spiner ever been given a movie.
The Borg Queen is programmed in multiple techniques.
What I did like about Khan was that it was a far better representation of someone who’s genetically engineered giving us both the mental and physical strength of a super soldier. Yes, we saw that in TOS a bit but for me personally I couldn’t get behind that when I watched Space Seed as it is far too obviously a set and choreographed stunts as opposed to realistic fights in Star Trek Into Darkness, especially in the Vengeance corridor where Khan easily overpowers three of its crew members.
With the TOS episodes (and even starting with the TNG-VOY episodes) as the show goes on and technology advances, for my personal tastes the shows age worse and worse because it’s obvious that those are sets from the 60s and 80-90s respectively with outdated buttons and tapes in TOS and touch screen keyboard buttons without the ability to swipe or send data to a PADD (essentially e-books with the capacity to only hold one book!). It might’ve been sci-fi in the 60s and 80s but for me it’s not realistic anymore, which is why, from an aesthetic and technological standpoint at least, I prefer modern Star Trek. And that is true for any long-running sci-fi show like Doctor Who or the original Star Wars. I can just see how outdated the technology is.
I agree with your list except for Krall. He is by far the weakest villain. I never liked him. I just rewatched it hoping to see any of what you were saying about him but I still find him the worst of all Star Trek villains.
Hot take:
Bendlebart Crumblepunch was a great villain in Into Darkness.
And I prefer his villain to Ricardo in STII
*hides*
He seemed a secondary villain, though he would go on to kill Admiral Marcus, who to me was the main villain.
100% KHAAAAAAAAAAN!!!
"Admiral Dougherty will not be joining us for dinner".
8:1 - never forget Maltz - "fine, I'll kill you later"
That was a lie!
Krall from Beyond is probably the biggest missed opportunity for a villain, even moreso than Ru'afo from Viagraworld. Just having a movie about a Romulan War veteran without the secrets, reveals, and twists padding out the film so you can't get to know the character would have made for a much stronger character. Like Ru'afo, the fact that the character is interesting at all is used as a third act twist near the end of the movie, which means you spend the majority of the film not being very interested in him. Especially since a Romulan killed Kirk and Spock's family. There's a ton of character stuff to explore there as a direct consequence from the first film.
For Insurrection the book gives more context when it comes to motivation for the sona, I know I'm spelling it wrong.
I always saw the borg as insect like so having a queen made sense to me
Comparing the two Khans only really works if you compare them as characters in each respective first appearance. The Wrath of Khan’s Khan already has a history with Kirk and 15 years of resentment and hatred festering. That would obviously add tremendously to the character.
Whereas both Space Seed’s and Into Darkness’s Khans are only encountering Kirk for the first time as happenstance.