I do think that the current IP holders in Renegade/Paradox inhouse and Paradox Publishing have sorta dropped the ball in terms of respecting WoD and it's properties and have sort of opted into the easy copying off of Onyx's homework. While I am not wholly hopeful for WoD's future, let it not be said that there are some good ideas and some decent changes such as things like the 3 round houserule listed in VtM5e. It feels that CofD has sort of gone minorly defunct with no major gameline projects really having been greenlit and it'a mainly supplementary works. Not to say Hunter: The Vigil 2e wasn't an amazing Swan Song, but it does bum a man out that there's publically no more plans for CofD. I do have major hope for Curseborne and how its development is going. Im glad to see Onyx path still developing it's own gothic urban horror IP and really spreading their wings.
Side note: I do not hate or even un-enjoy the newer WoD stuff, but it feels like they abandoned a lot of WoDs defining factors and personality in favor of something more Videogamey. Which is fine, I guess. It just dissapoints me that the lot of it is just a copypaste of something that was, conceptually, a remix of old WoD rules with ne wideas put behind it.
I’m hopeful for Onyx Path’s Curseborne. I hope it pulls from more current horror tropes. Haunting of Hill House and Bly Manor were very well done gothic urban horror stories in recent years.
@@AwkwardGMCorbin Me too honestly. I do like a lot of horror that is just unidentifiable or out of the norm like Jean Jacket from Nope. One other point of horror Id like to see be pulled from for Curseborne is the "There's more out there" type of stuff. The Accursed can be lurking in the night, yes, but so much more. To draw a parallel: In a Call of Cthulhu game, theres a hospital you can visit thats completely empty and abandoned. Youd expect it to be related to the cult of fish people or something along those lines, untill you find a note describing a baby that had chewed off its own umbilical cord and moving like a bug had been killing the staff. Stuff like that is what really makes some horror, horrific (And is mainly whu even when not in Hunter chronicles I still used HTVs monster and ghost creation system. Nothing unsettles a Changeling Motley like something that is tapping on the edge of reality like a home invader playing with his prey. As unrelated as it is, it is effective to remind players not everything is connected to what they know)
In 2nd edition of Scion, they tried to virtue signal by dedicating an entire page in Masks of the Mythos to trash talking H.P Lovecraft, who's mythology they were using for the supplement. They spent the section lecturing people about the evils of racism, when they had previously introduced the DAHOMEY AMAZONS as a playable supernatural path. They also hyped them up as being 'great heroes' that fought against empires for the sake of their people. Onyx Paths is undeniably biased towards certain political views, and from my personal experience on their forums, I can say with full confidence that if you don't agree with those views, they will not hesitate to excommunicate you from the community.
Onyx Path still owns Chronicles of Darkness, right? It’s basically this weird alternate universe version of World of Darkness where you can still play Vampires, Werewolves, Mages, Changelings, etc. but they’re somewhat different from their WoD counterparts. Mummies are more evil and not at all tied to vampires in their origin, but still crazy powerful. Changelings are all kidnap victims, and their venue IMO should be the flagship CoD venue. Vampires are no longer the children of Cain and have more nebulous origins (the Kindred of the East no longer exist). Hunters actually make sense now and have special abilities based on what organization they bring to. The Technocracy is gone, but instead of being replaced by Mage the Awakening’s Seers of the Throne, it has been replaced by the God Machine and its techno angels which also replaced God. While player character Demons are techno angels that detached themselves from the God Machine’s network, there are also demons from the Inferno, demons from the supernal realms, demons from the abyss, and ghosts and spirits that become demons. Werewolves are no longer the children of Gaia, they are the descendants of Father Wolf who policed Pangea. While you “can” pay a ghost rather than a Wraith in this setting, Geist the Sin Eater is CoD’s “Deadman” venue. They also have new venues. Promethean where you can play a Frankenstein’s monster (or Golem or Galetean or pseudo Mummy or a weird Siberian shaman thing). Beast the primordial, which is unnecessary and redundant to other venues like Changeling and Vampire but it’s a bullshit abuse power fantasy where you’re the “good guy” for being an abusive bastard that torments people to death, and the Heroes who try to stop you are horrible evil narcissists for trying to stop you (if you’re going to be an evil monster, just be an evil monster, don’t try to sell us on the doublethink that you’re good for being bad). And in a serious departure from all other folklore and mythology based horror in the modern world they made Deviant, where you’re the augmented super soldier experiment of some shadow organization.
Onyx Path got permission to use the CofD license from White Wolf along with Exalted. Sadly according to OPP on various platforms such as their Podcast, Paradox is not greenlighting any new CofD content. So Promethean, Changeling the Lost, Deviant, etc… are currently “done”. No new books have been announced or planned. Last ones coming out are HtV’s jumpstart and DtR’s players guide I think. Onyx Path themselves are putting out a game called Curseborne which is a more modern take on urban horror with creepypasta elements which I have covered in a few videos already if you are interested in them. I’m thinking of doing a video on when TTRPGs are done/stop being made. And how I feel about other games that aren’t getting updated but I still play.
Great video. If you are a fan of B-Movies and love the Storypath system (basically the White Wolf System), Onyx Path has a series of games that IMO do not get enough attention, the "They Came..." series of games that span from "They Came from Beneath the Sea"- 1950s style monster movies, "They Came from Beyond the Grave" - Hammer Horror films, to "They Came from Camp Murder Lake"- every 1980s/19901 Slasher film. The games do not just have ideas for plots, they also have a system of Cinematic Rewrites for the players, things like "Cardboard Set". This is one of the only game systems I know that have these funny elements. Worth a look for those who would like some less serious play.
let face the face that when white wolf was handed over it took the fun and lore out of the books and just try to make it a d&d replacement when white wolf made something that has it own quite world. they need to actually talk with the fans and the people who wrote the different games rather then one person who onle happen to make vampire and think that onyx verse and wod is the same produce and just acknowledge that they are different worlds. any true fan could see that paradox has change things and not all for the best. if they could review and make some better change then perhaps it wouldn't feel like a let down
I am no legal expert. Game mechanics can’t be copyrighted in the US. Though the word for word rules can be. I don’t know CofD’s relationship to WoD. As there is a lot of crossover in terms. Like Ventrue and Nosferatu. I imagine trying to sell the license of CofD would be difficult.
Ive not followed stuff with white wolf in nearly a decade. What are they still making. Is scion dead, is nWoD dead? I heard they made a 5th edition for oWoD but not much else
Scion was purchased by Onyx Path Publishing which is made up of some people who worked on WW projects in the past. Scion 2e is out and I love it! Only issue is the rules were still in flux when it came out (most of the fixes came in later books like Trinity Continuum). But I have two episodes on this channel for Scion 2e core and hero. Highly recommend checking them out.
@AwkwardGMCorbin I guess I mean are they gonna continue scion or is it dead cause I remember 2e getting announced but I figured they'd have come out with more books by now.
@@c34r34lk1ll3r They’ve been continuing it. They just added a book about Arthurian mythology and Gods is on the way: www.drivethrurpg.com/en/publisher/4261/onyx-path-publishing/category/22322/scion-2nd-edition?page=1&sortBy=newest
Hot takes: None of the 1st ed big three books could be published in 'current year' Onyx Path cleaned up the system and over all is more balanced but less fun (aside from Beast and Chandling) Realy hot take, Beast is the best thing to come out of Onyx Path.
Hot take: Games work best in the context of the decade or so they were made. No one wants to go back to THA0 except the people who grew up with it or learned on it. And new comers likely will enjoy more up to date references than stuff that’s a touchstone for an older generation. Like if you want to make a CreepyPasta style game you aren’t gonna make references to Gilbert and Sullivan which is more known by older generations.
@AwkwardGMCorbin Current year is more in refance to the substance, not the style. Subject matter not fluff. WoD is seeped in a zeitgeist that has passed. But dare you now put out books akin to Gypsy or Get of Fenris in the curret climate?
I do think that the current IP holders in Renegade/Paradox inhouse and Paradox Publishing have sorta dropped the ball in terms of respecting WoD and it's properties and have sort of opted into the easy copying off of Onyx's homework. While I am not wholly hopeful for WoD's future, let it not be said that there are some good ideas and some decent changes such as things like the 3 round houserule listed in VtM5e.
It feels that CofD has sort of gone minorly defunct with no major gameline projects really having been greenlit and it'a mainly supplementary works. Not to say Hunter: The Vigil 2e wasn't an amazing Swan Song, but it does bum a man out that there's publically no more plans for CofD.
I do have major hope for Curseborne and how its development is going. Im glad to see Onyx path still developing it's own gothic urban horror IP and really spreading their wings.
Side note: I do not hate or even un-enjoy the newer WoD stuff, but it feels like they abandoned a lot of WoDs defining factors and personality in favor of something more Videogamey. Which is fine, I guess. It just dissapoints me that the lot of it is just a copypaste of something that was, conceptually, a remix of old WoD rules with ne wideas put behind it.
I’m hopeful for Onyx Path’s Curseborne. I hope it pulls from more current horror tropes. Haunting of Hill House and Bly Manor were very well done gothic urban horror stories in recent years.
@@AwkwardGMCorbin Me too honestly.
I do like a lot of horror that is just unidentifiable or out of the norm like Jean Jacket from Nope. One other point of horror Id like to see be pulled from for Curseborne is the "There's more out there" type of stuff. The Accursed can be lurking in the night, yes, but so much more.
To draw a parallel:
In a Call of Cthulhu game, theres a hospital you can visit thats completely empty and abandoned. Youd expect it to be related to the cult of fish people or something along those lines, untill you find a note describing a baby that had chewed off its own umbilical cord and moving like a bug had been killing the staff.
Stuff like that is what really makes some horror, horrific (And is mainly whu even when not in Hunter chronicles I still used HTVs monster and ghost creation system. Nothing unsettles a Changeling Motley like something that is tapping on the edge of reality like a home invader playing with his prey. As unrelated as it is, it is effective to remind players not everything is connected to what they know)
White Wolf went the way of the Dodo. Bought out and bled dry by a Pentex interest group. >.>
In 2nd edition of Scion, they tried to virtue signal by dedicating an entire page in Masks of the Mythos to trash talking H.P Lovecraft, who's mythology they were using for the supplement. They spent the section lecturing people about the evils of racism, when they had previously introduced the DAHOMEY AMAZONS as a playable supernatural path. They also hyped them up as being 'great heroes' that fought against empires for the sake of their people. Onyx Paths is undeniably biased towards certain political views, and from my personal experience on their forums, I can say with full confidence that if you don't agree with those views, they will not hesitate to excommunicate you from the community.
Back in the White wolf days they also had the rights of Swords and Sorcery, and 3.0 Ravenloft..
Onyx Path still owns Chronicles of Darkness, right? It’s basically this weird alternate universe version of World of Darkness where you can still play Vampires, Werewolves, Mages, Changelings, etc. but they’re somewhat different from their WoD counterparts. Mummies are more evil and not at all tied to vampires in their origin, but still crazy powerful. Changelings are all kidnap victims, and their venue IMO should be the flagship CoD venue. Vampires are no longer the children of Cain and have more nebulous origins (the Kindred of the East no longer exist). Hunters actually make sense now and have special abilities based on what organization they bring to. The Technocracy is gone, but instead of being replaced by Mage the Awakening’s Seers of the Throne, it has been replaced by the God Machine and its techno angels which also replaced God. While player character Demons are techno angels that detached themselves from the God Machine’s network, there are also demons from the Inferno, demons from the supernal realms, demons from the abyss, and ghosts and spirits that become demons. Werewolves are no longer the children of Gaia, they are the descendants of Father Wolf who policed Pangea. While you “can” pay a ghost rather than a Wraith in this setting, Geist the Sin Eater is CoD’s “Deadman” venue.
They also have new venues. Promethean where you can play a Frankenstein’s monster (or Golem or Galetean or pseudo Mummy or a weird Siberian shaman thing). Beast the primordial, which is unnecessary and redundant to other venues like Changeling and Vampire but it’s a bullshit abuse power fantasy where you’re the “good guy” for being an abusive bastard that torments people to death, and the Heroes who try to stop you are horrible evil narcissists for trying to stop you (if you’re going to be an evil monster, just be an evil monster, don’t try to sell us on the doublethink that you’re good for being bad). And in a serious departure from all other folklore and mythology based horror in the modern world they made Deviant, where you’re the augmented super soldier experiment of some shadow organization.
Onyx Path got permission to use the CofD license from White Wolf along with Exalted. Sadly according to OPP on various platforms such as their Podcast, Paradox is not greenlighting any new CofD content. So Promethean, Changeling the Lost, Deviant, etc… are currently “done”. No new books have been announced or planned. Last ones coming out are HtV’s jumpstart and DtR’s players guide I think.
Onyx Path themselves are putting out a game called Curseborne which is a more modern take on urban horror with creepypasta elements which I have covered in a few videos already if you are interested in them.
I’m thinking of doing a video on when TTRPGs are done/stop being made. And how I feel about other games that aren’t getting updated but I still play.
i love owod wod and cod i love all editions especially v20 except I'm not a fan of v5
Great video. If you are a fan of B-Movies and love the Storypath system (basically the White Wolf System), Onyx Path has a series of games that IMO do not get enough attention, the "They Came..." series of games that span from "They Came from Beneath the Sea"- 1950s style monster movies, "They Came from Beyond the Grave" - Hammer Horror films, to "They Came from Camp Murder Lake"- every 1980s/19901 Slasher film. The games do not just have ideas for plots, they also have a system of Cinematic Rewrites for the players, things like "Cardboard Set". This is one of the only game systems I know that have these funny elements. Worth a look for those who would like some less serious play.
Nice to hear the Ars Magica shout-out!
let face the face that when white wolf was handed over it took the fun and lore out of the books and just try to make it a d&d replacement when white wolf made something that has it own quite world. they need to actually talk with the fans and the people who wrote the different games rather then one person who onle happen to make vampire and think that onyx verse and wod is the same produce and just acknowledge that they are different worlds. any true fan could see that paradox has change things and not all for the best. if they could review and make some better change then perhaps it wouldn't feel like a let down
NWOD 1st Ed aka COD was peak White Wolf
LOL! 2:44 I had just pulled up WW on Wikipedia and was literally reading this part as you were talking about it.
I'm surprised there is no exalted video game. Doesnt even have to be AAA.
Same. Though I feel Exalted does get a lot of love.
@@AwkwardGMCorbin true
can people buy the rights for chronicles of darkness?
I am no legal expert. Game mechanics can’t be copyrighted in the US. Though the word for word rules can be.
I don’t know CofD’s relationship to WoD. As there is a lot of crossover in terms. Like Ventrue and Nosferatu. I imagine trying to sell the license of CofD would be difficult.
Ive not followed stuff with white wolf in nearly a decade. What are they still making. Is scion dead, is nWoD dead? I heard they made a 5th edition for oWoD but not much else
Scion was purchased by Onyx Path Publishing which is made up of some people who worked on WW projects in the past.
Scion 2e is out and I love it! Only issue is the rules were still in flux when it came out (most of the fixes came in later books like Trinity Continuum). But I have two episodes on this channel for Scion 2e core and hero. Highly recommend checking them out.
@AwkwardGMCorbin I guess I mean are they gonna continue scion or is it dead cause I remember 2e getting announced but I figured they'd have come out with more books by now.
@@c34r34lk1ll3r They’ve been continuing it. They just added a book about Arthurian mythology and Gods is on the way:
www.drivethrurpg.com/en/publisher/4261/onyx-path-publishing/category/22322/scion-2nd-edition?page=1&sortBy=newest
Hot takes:
None of the 1st ed big three books could be published in 'current year'
Onyx Path cleaned up the system and over all is more balanced but less fun (aside from Beast and Chandling)
Realy hot take, Beast is the best thing to come out of Onyx Path.
Hot take: Games work best in the context of the decade or so they were made.
No one wants to go back to THA0 except the people who grew up with it or learned on it.
And new comers likely will enjoy more up to date references than stuff that’s a touchstone for an older generation.
Like if you want to make a CreepyPasta style game you aren’t gonna make references to Gilbert and Sullivan which is more known by older generations.
@AwkwardGMCorbin Current year is more in refance to the substance, not the style. Subject matter not fluff. WoD is seeped in a zeitgeist that has passed. But dare you now put out books akin to Gypsy or Get of Fenris in the curret climate?