In a sea of Vaati look-alikes, everybody trying to sound super cult and knowledgeable, your videos really stand out. Your mockable style and jokes along a truly thoughtful analysis of the lore is both fun and interesting. Great job!
The DLC really fries my brain when it comes to the timeline, especially the birth placement of Melina and Messmer, but one thing I've been cooking lately is that Marika's war against the giants likely preceded the conflict with the Hornsent. After all, the Fell God appears to be a common enemy of them both, so maybe they worked together to thwart the Fire Giants. The "betrayal" kind of merits some sort of relationship between the two groups, maybe the war against the north was that. This is also potentially why the Zamor have been discarded by the Golden Order - they control the ice aspect of the storm, could they be Hornsent warriors? They also used curved swords. Something to consider
Also, the furnace golems that Messmer uses has these large, crude effigies of the Fire Giants with their hair and beards on their legs, implying that it’s set after the war against the giants.
I remember hearing, years ago before Elden ring was even close to coming out, that it was gonna be a game about white hair versus red hair or some shit.
Yeeee, I remember the leaks now Technically Radagons children have red hair and Godfrey's have white/light gold But that leak is now more likely not relevant anymore
I’m pretty sure there is a hornsent spirit that says they put people inside pots so they can be reborn as saints. The ‘shamans’ apparently had a special property to their flesh that made so it would blend and mix better with others. Essentially the shamans were enslaved and breed with the sole purpose of taking part in this potting ritual. If there was ever a reason for marika to went to exterminate the hornset, revenge for her people seems to be it. Though I don’t know in what way she was allied to the hornset for her to betray them in the first place.
I’m not saying for certain but maybe when she became an emperyean she asked the grandma for advice and guidance and once she became a god in the tower she brought her revenge
given the viewpoint of the hornsent, Marika's betrayal didn't even have to be a true betrayal as they believed that the shamans one purpose was to become saints, and marika going against that could be seen as betrayal as oppressors don't tend to see themselves as the bad guys
@@TheSoijohn it doesn’t matter wether it was true or not. The hornset were still enslaving a group of ppl for the sole purpose of torturing them, mutilating them and stuffing them into jars. The whole thing is unnecessarily cruel, a repeating theme with the hornsent.
@@joaseleneromero9838 I thought that the promise she made in her village was after the crusade. She promised not to do anything so horrible again, then sealed the shadows away.
In regards to Omen nightmares, if what they see is horned figures laughing and whatnot, what if they are seeing their ancestors during times of revelry, but because of their culture/environment they feel haunted by these images as opposed to invigorated by them. Seems to me like Marika is weaponizing generational trauma
Everything she did makes a lot of sense if you can imagine a terrified, traumatized, physically and spiritually violated girl coming out of that jar to celebrating potentates expecting her to be grateful Then finding out that they successfully had enacted a theocratic genocide condemning her entire culture to a horrific end Marika left her humanity behind but she was all too human once and you can see it in what she tried to value. She tried to make a perfect golden family in a perfect safe place, where no one ever had to die and she didnt ever have to lose anyone. It's the kind of wishful thinking that would keep someone trapped in their grief, a slave to it. It's why part of healing is acceptance, moving on, otherwise its a prison and you lose your own free will to it. And Metyr knew it. Eventually Marika did too. With all the grandiosity of a God she had to learn it harder than most.
@timwinterhalter5233 but then, dispate her best efforts, her most golden son - Godwyn - died. And not just died - murdered in a treasonous plot. She turned death off, and it didn't help, didn't stop the loss. That when she broke.
Thank you honored madman. You are my favorite content maker as of right now. Got me through so much work and tedious tasks. Love your personality. Feel like you’re a friend fr. I’m glad you’re doing something you love. Or it seems that way at least. Keep it up my guy.
That could be why Godfrey seemingly doesn’t care (at least not as much as he should) about his Exile, I believe Godfrey is from the same village as Marika the Shamen people I think they had Shamens who were In charge and then Warrior like berserkers like the people who wield the beast claws, such a wasted opportunity not to give us Godfrey’s WWE moveset as a kinda Hand-to-Hand / Beast Claw hybrid weapon btw
In the primordial epoch before time began, two formidable entities held sway: the Base Serpent and the Ancient Dragons. From the greater Will emerged the majestic Ancient Dragons, while the Base Serpent gave rise to wild beasts. In time, the ancestors of Godfrey appeared. The tutelary deities descended alongside Metyr and the numen. Those who followed these deities became known as the Hornsent. The numen chose to worship the Base Serpent, with the Gloam-eyed Queen ruling beside it. Silence from the greater Will drove the Dragon God, Bayle Mad, into conflict with her elder lord, Placidusax. Bayle fled to the Jagged Peak, while Placidusax sought communion with the greater Will. Their offspring, the Sax Ancient Dragons, retreated into the timeless storm, abandoning beasts and humans alike. Humans began venerating the tutelary deities, leading to the birth of the Hornsent. They sought to create a Saint capable of communing with the greater Will. Midra, the Saint they fashioned, saw runes within the forge flames. Gaining freedom, Midra met Nanaya, and together they bore Marika, known as the Reebus-a soul dual in one form. When Marika's father proclaimed the tenets of the Frenzied Flame from the forge's flames, the Hornsent slew him with golden barbs. Fleeing to the Finger Ruins, Marika encountered her Two Fingers, who imparted the incantations of the greater Will. Marika returned to the Hornsent, offering to teach them to build the Gate of Divinity. Elevated as their Empyrean, she rivaled the Gloam-eyed Queen and her snake-skinned progeny. Marika bore two children, Messmer and Melina. During this era of tranquility after the Dragon Lords' departure, the Crucible Knights and Godfrey sought Marika and her Two Fingers. They begot Morgott and Mohg, blessed by the Crucible. Rumors suggested they might be Radagon and Marika's progeny. Marika and Maliketh slew the Base Serpent and the Gloam-eyed Queen, cursing Messmer and Melina with the serpent's flame. Marika imbued Maliketh with the Rune of Death and used the remaining runes to activate the Gate of Divinity. She took Godfrey as her King Consort and banished the Numen beneath the earth for their service to the Base Serpent and the Gloam-eyed Queen. Marika forged the Erdtree, casting aside the Scadutree with Melina, rendering her formless and burned to prevent the Gloam-eyed Queen's return. Maliketh remained the sole wielder of the Rune of Death. Marika and Godfrey conquered the intervening realms. Radagon and Messmer allied with the Carian descendants of the Numen, who worshipped the moon rather than the Base Serpent. Radagon wed Renalla, while Relanna fell for Messmer. Marika mothered Melina, revealing her plan. Godfrey was sent away with the Tarnished. Radagon and Renalla bore three children: Ranni, Rykard, and Radahn. Radagon returned as Marika's Elder Lord, together having Melania and Miquella. Miquella aspired to make Radahn his consort over Godwyn, who challenged the stars as the last enemy of the Golden Order. Miquella, known as Saint Trina, sought to seduce Radahn. Melania journeyed to the Shadowlands, learning from the Blue Fairy and sealing the rot within the Church of the Bud. Ranni bonded with her mother and the Snow Witch, discovering her lunar connection. Rykard became Lord of Mt. Gelmir and Leyndell's Justiciar, uncovering Marika's past and the Base Serpent beneath the Volcano Manor. Rykard bonded with Messmer over their shared curse, along with their partners Tanith and Relanna. Rykard revealed Marika's history to Messmer, who set out to burn all evidence of the Hornsent and her past, unleashing the rot that Melania had sealed. Morgott and Mohg were imprisoned beneath Leyndell, with Messmer's forces sealed in the Scadu Realm. Melania returned, mastering her decay and becoming Miquella's Blade upon his return to his Miquella persona. Rykard allied with Ranni and Miquella, stealing the Rune of Death to slay Godwyn's soul and Ranni's body, surprising Miquella. In her grief, Marika shattered the Elden Ring. Rykard's betrayal was exposed, and he was banished to Mt. Gelmir after seizing a Great Rune. Marika buried Godwyn at the Erdtree's roots and sent Maliketh to Farum Azula for sanctuary. Each demigod claimed their rune, except Ranni, whose rune remained with her body. Morgott pursued the Black Knives with a rune and repelled Radahn's claim to the throne, while Mohg gained one from his formless mother. Godrick attacked Leyndell with Rykard, but they were repelled by Melania. Godrick fled to Stormveil Castle and began the grafting process. Rykard fed himself to the Base Serpent to revive it, becoming the Lord of Blasphemy. Morgott became the king of Leyndell, secretly ruling through his Night's Cavalry. Messmer burned the Shaded Lands, unleashing the rot. Miquella sought to cure the deathroot infecting the Erdtree and to cure Melania's returned rot. He tried to revive Godwyn and create an Erdtree to sustain everyone, but these efforts failed. Recruiting the first-generation Albanurics created by the Carians, he was drained of blood and aged, sending Melania to kill Radahn. Radahn returned to Caelid to continue fighting the astral beings. Melania and Radahn clashed under Miquella's gaze. Miquella returned to Leyndell and released Mohg, who pierced Marika's womb. In his escape, he was charmed into taking Miquella with him. Melania was carried to the Haligtree. Radahn was left to rot but remained undefeated, holding the stars in stasis. Radagon fused with Marika to heal her, creating the thorns to prevent any of the demigods from becoming Elden Lord. Melina's spirit sought out the Tarnished to lead them to become the Elden Lord and defeat all the other would-be lords.
Damn dude take a breath! Lol no that's actually a pretty good idea of a timeline, some typos I think you meant that Marika births godwyn not Melina twice lol. And as it gets closer to the present day of the game I disagree on a lot more. Like what is the evidence for the spear in marikas side being from mohg?
22:50 I think there is a line from the grandma where she mentions a curse upon Marika and her children, which could have been what caused Morgott and Mogh to be Omens. Also an item description, I forgot which one, states that Marika's Children took the form of those that opressed her (paraphrased from memory) so the Jarring likely took place before Marika's rise to divinity while the Crusade and subsequent genocide of the Hornsent likely took place later more in response to her Children being cursed.
Your theory of Bonny village not being the inciting incident makes sense It’s possible that marika learned how to become a god from the horned grandam and somehow sacrificed many hornsent (hornsent corpses make up the divine gate and it’s said that marika betrayed them) taking her to the lands between and making her a god. The hornsent in retaliation jarred her home village because marika herself was out of reach. After becoming an established god with children marika learned of her people’s fate sending messmer as revenge and the rest is history I realize there’s no direct dialogue from ghosts supporting this it’s just a theory
It doesn't really matter. This whole tale is about the cycle of cruelty and violence. It doesn't matter who landed the first hit, ax both sides were scorged to the brim of extinction.
I personally like the theory that Marika became a succesful saint and then betrayed the hornsent. In my opinion if the hornsent slaughtered the shamans as revenge their harmonuosly melding flesh wouldn't matter so much, no?
The fly mold description mentions it can be used as “pot innards.” I think this and the implication that the people caring for those afflicted never got sick points to it being deliberate ailment to create the filler ingredients for “pot sainthood.”
My favourite new spell is the new incantation which is basically like a sonic boom from Street Fighter. It actually has great tracking and hit potential because it is so wide. I accidentally found the seal that powers up these kinds of spells
I’m pretty sure they stated that the creating of the Saint jars was first. The creating of saint jars is to ritualistic and calm for it to be an active hatred after queen marika betrayal
Man, you alone keep good lore vids alive, such a great vid yet again I like that you're not trying to sound too mystical about it, you're just sharing the lore and your view points just like talking a to a friend, I mad dig that shit G🔥 My fav weapon so far is lowkey Milady, did the whole DLC with that thing since I found it, such a good moveset and a great addition to the weapom classes - I do believe Light Greatswords are here to stay, so too with Great Katanas, backhand blades and thrusting shields
holy shit the statue at 31:41 i think is literally the hornsent god that marika seduced , i never saw the statue in game but its erie. The hood the larger figure is wearing looks exactly like what marika pulls the rune from before approaching the gate of divinity
It's really interesting how the fire giants' lore ties in with the dlc. We're a given a surface-level statement about "the Fell God that haunts the sagas of hornsent" in the furnace visage desc at the beginning, kinda just to tell us that the hornsent probably weren't on good terms with the fire giants. And then, actually going to flame peak, we see not only enormous spears impaling the giants, but in the forge we see that the stone is melted into a sort of spiral or whirlwind shape, just like the furnace of the furnace golems. So kind of random, but I think we can piece together some details around Marika's betrayal. Assuming that the spears are Messmer's, it tells us that the war on the Fire Giants likely happened before the shadow realm was sealed away along with Messmer himself (this basically fits with the timeline, since we know both Godfrey and the Erdtree were already around/in the making around the time of the betrayal, going by the Secret Rite Scroll and Minor Erdtree incant, respectively). And, if we're to believe that the giantsforge flame is the same soul-burning flame that the furnaces now use, going by the whirlwind-like carvings and the fact it burns Melina away, then this tells us that Marika was likely doing the hornsent a favor by sealing away the forge's flame. And what do you know, she also personally defeated the Fell God that "haunts" their history. So just putting this all together, we can assume that Marika and the Hornsent were really strong allies at this time. But then, when she reacted to the treatment of the Shamans in Bonny Village, this is probably what is described as the betrayal, especially with how the furnace golems now use the soul-burning whirlwind of flame against the hornsent, and are even decorated like the Fell God they were afraid of (also this mockery wouldn't make since if the Fell God was still an enemy of Marika's she hadn't defeated at the time, more evidence that the giants war happened before the betrayal and massacre of the hornsent). But yeah just little bits of context to add to the dlc story trailer, cool to see how we have to re-think parts of the timeline now Edit: oh and apparently the "mother of crucibles" (as in the very first manifestation of the crucible?) sprouted on giants. So thats wierd, idk if it could be tied to anything
awesome vid! the bong rip at the end was a great tribute to the Sacred Bud. gonna write a bit here, cuz i have a theory on marika’s betrayal that i think makes sense but i haven’t really seen discussed. first of all, i wanna say i’m working with the assumption that messmer’s purge was the “betrayal.” anyway, that theory is this: godfrey was originally hornsent before his soul was transposed into a vessel for the ritual at enir-ilim. obviously, we know godfrey founded the crucible knights, an erdtree-sanctioned sect of crucible warriors who fight oddly similarly to bird warriors. stormveil and serosh also show us that godfrey held reverence for storms and lions. and the lord’s bestowal talisman indicates that “the lord of the erdtree casts a long shadow over the lands,” despite there being no other traces of godfrey in the shadow realm. his identification as THE lord of the erdtree makes it likely he was the one marika used in ritual. which is especially weird considering messmer knows what the tarnished are, which pretty definitively places his crusade as occurring after godfrey’s exile but before the twins’ birth. so, the question we should ask is, why did marika only purge the hornsent immediately after removing godfrey, her best enemy-eradicator? and why the ridiculous level of secrecy when her past genocides were committed in broad daylight? godfrey being hornsent makes so much make sense imo. he’s associated with all the same things the hornsent revere. the hornsent felt betrayed bc marika took one of their own as a lord, then turned on them. the purge only happened after his exile because he couldn’t be trusted to purge his own people. and his imminent return to become lord again made marika act with an unusual level of secrecy. it also explains why the crucible knights were EVER allowed- it was part of marika’s making nice with the hornsent and their culture through godfrey. this is all just my two cents but i’m trying to get more people to consider it and maybe find some evidence for/against it that i missed.
Hey honored bozo just letting you know I get excited when I see you’ve uploaded and truly appreciate your content brother, the vibes in your corner of the internet are like a death metal album that’s down to chit to chat and I fuck with that
I think the commercial shows the literal birth of the erdtree/elden beast which is why we hear the elden beast theme, I believe she grabs the gold threads from the mother of fingers (which is why it was unable to commune with the “greater will” which is really just the elden ring) and used it to combine the influence of the crucible and the elden ring while leaving the rune of death out of the new erdtree (which was later not enough so she sealed it), maybe the gold absorbed all of the fleshy crucibles life matter and birthed the Elden beast and hurled it to the lands between, this explains why marika kinda just appears in the time line when the erdtree does, because she just showed up one day with a massive gold tree to the outside world and the crucible was just gone with no explanation
@@tokatulu I’m currently stuck with a chicken and the egg situation in lore hunting currently, either the formless mother was found after all the blood and red was purged, or what I’m starting to lean more towards is the idea that she was the original form of the crucible a literal amassing blood pool, or more simply, a crucible of blood, I like this idea a lot because I imagine the bloodfiends worshiping a pool that blesses their people with horns and eventually they channel the spiral which is an aspect of the elden ring into the shape of the formless mother/crucible which made the gates of divinity. Personally still looking but from what I can tell so far, it’s the later.
@@tokatulu the story of the game is actually the exact same symbolism as dark souls, light is time, dark is time unknown, blood is life and chaos, gold is purity that purges all darkness equally. so now you have my lens with you to research in your own gameplay
L 31:03 dude you had me dying here. You downplayed the hell out of the jar theory 😂. Much respect though, this is how I would try and explain Elden ring to a friend of mine so love the delivery!
Finally, someone else who has connected the Ancestral Followers to the Hornsent. For some reason whenever I point out the connection people think I'm talking crazy.
Thanks man for putting out there more possibilities than just "Marika killed the hornsent because they put her people into jars". I also feel like there is more to the story. And I love a good nuanced story.
Hell yeah more honored content for the madman militia. I'm great too thanks. Playing more elden today I think that putting newmen into jars came before marikas rise here's my evidence: Marika is confirmed to be from the shaman The ghost next to the tooth whip says being cut up tortured and infected and stuck together in jars is "the reason you shamans were accorded life" so hornsent believe that shamans live only to be tortured and turned into "saints" and the hornsent caterpillar mask prevents the potentates from questioning if it's wrong to do. The big question I have... "Accorded life" and an accord is a deal or contract, so did the hornsent show up and subjugate the shaman or did the shaman show up and agree to become saints and they started to stand up to the murder torture jar treatment? And WHAT ARE THOSE GIANT COFFINS!?
The white hairs could also mean they have lived for a loooong time. Basically they are very old. It could also be related to the white hairs that are emerging from the caterpillar mask of the potentates. The hairs of caterpillars are painfully allergenic, imagine wearing a mask made of urticant caterpillars...
I wonder if Marika conquered the fire giants before the hornsent, would be fitting if she gained their fire and used it against the ones who feared it most
That seems to be the case as Messmer's crusade is implied to have happened long after Radagon became King Consort. Howevef I believe Marika to have conquered the Fire Giant in fear that Messmer's power might go wild some day
most likely since messmers crusade seemingly happened relatively recently, for example he's referenced as a big bro figure for radahn so think about what that implies timeline wise
The wicker man guys have fire giant corpses on them already, and dragons. Kinda seems to imply this happened after the wars against the giants and ancient dragons already happened.
anyone else think the fallen hawk dudes look like hornsent that had their horns excised omen-style? they would be able to use ghostflame due to their innate sense for spirits, and them being slaves could imply Marika forced them to explore the eternal cities
Great catch on the white hair. I did notice that those connected to cursed spirits like Omen and Royal revenants will show the spirits as a discoloured gold and black whereas the spiral spirit magic like from the Grandam will be almost white and black in colour, I think you're correct in suggesting it is connected to the spirits.
It occured to me that Morgott and Mohg were born before Messmer's crusade. The crusade happened at some point between the departure of the Tarnished and some point shortly after the rise of Radagon to Elden Lord, so Omen have likely always been a thing.
The hornsent definitely have added something substantial to elden rings timeline. I feel this was a group sprouted from the ancestral spirits but "took divinity in their own hands" so to speak. The pots for sainthood, the fanatical worship of spiral horns, the ancient ruins might've first rose around the fall of the eternal cities, numens were scattered and the hornsent prospered. Midra might've been a part of the rebuilding numen, who gave into the frenzied flame, inquisition takes control of the problem and the numen became fully enslaved, "shamans" for sainthood.
Could the Fire Element have been stolen from the Hornsent at some point? If you look at the Divine Beast Lions it seems like they are missing a lion dancer based on how they walk. It also seems like the first phase of no element is like soot being sprayed out, like it should be fire.
God this video helped me a lot piecing together some connections, also the Lion Dancer in the ruins he does a Death Storm dance you got any idea what that’s about? Possibly a connection to the Death Birds? Cause while there not connected with Death Blight entirely they do have the one scream attack that builds up Death Blight which I take as a corruption of death by Godwyn which could be the same thing happening with that Lion Dancer
When I think of how Marika sealed Messimer behind to eternally burn and damn the hornsent, I keep relaying her to Zeus. Zeus made sure hid brother Hades remained in the underworld to reign. Zeus has the "You belong to me or you're my enemy" behavior and Marika closely resembles a lot of that Pagan/Polytheisitic religion. I know the devs get a lot of inspiration from religions of all creeds and it always seems that Marika is a Zeus at times. Idk, just had that thought during MY outro
The main reason you think the making of saint jars is after queen marika is because the man who literally tortured people wants to kill innocent people and not just the guilty people queen marika also does that
I think around the medieval era the self-flagellation that happened during the Black death and the monks or just general devout who practiced it did it with the intent of showing God that they have suffered and under the belief that what they are currently facing on a mass scale is due to a lack of virtue/faith imposed by divinity. This could have started out as the cursed blades thinking that whatever higher divinity is out there that they worship did not think that they have suffered enough to be granted the glory that was being a lion dancer. However if you want to really take a look at it, you can also see it as their views shifting to where they now view what Mesmer's forces are doing only really being allowed to continue by said divinity because of a lack of virtue in those that their society has said that are marked out as divine due to their horns (which would also segway neatly into why they would probably want to imprison some of them. Because you don't want people who are saying that your people deserve annihilation in the face of it because you aren't praying hard enough, it kinda kills morale) Again this is all just a theory
I love this guy. He delivers the lore in such a personable, hilarious way, like he's just brainstorming it with a friend, instead of delivering it in that boring-ass, essay-style format. Lore hunters need to stop trying to sound like professors. Just gimme.
What i think happened is that the Gate of divinity is just a giant Jar made of the holiest horn sent and the threads are the strands of crucible gold left in the hornsent. The idea being that if they got enough holy crucible energy together then Marika could then finally ascend to sainthood. The betrayal I think happens after the golden order was created as Marika had no need for the hornsent or Godfrey as he was close to the crucible and they the war for supremacy was over. Seeing they had no need for such a strong army Marika was able to then turn around on the hornsent then completely remove their influence from the lands between to get revenge.
I’m pretty sure the statues are supposed be to various of horned species that existed in these land that were study and displayed in the library during their crusade.🐱
Yeah i agree, it just seemed more like trophies than specimens but i do get that they were probably dissecting them n shit. They were even making jars of their own at the shadow keep
Игры
cant blame these dudes.. i pray at the altar of the bud
Goated comment
Lol his outro was a huge bong hit lmao 32:59
@@sridonepudi9724 honored madman intros and outros are legendary
In a sea of Vaati look-alikes, everybody trying to sound super cult and knowledgeable, your videos really stand out. Your mockable style and jokes along a truly thoughtful analysis of the lore is both fun and interesting. Great job!
This shit right here, bro ain't trying to put no mask on, he just rambles about lore the way he feels like it and it goes hard af
we love honored madman everybody say thank you honored madman
Thank you honored madman
Thank you Honored Madman!
Thank you Honored Madman!
Thank you Honoured Madman!
Thank you Honored Madman
The Bleach ost and Elden Ring combo goes hard
I was thinking the exact same thing dude
So true, straight up got chills lol
The DLC really fries my brain when it comes to the timeline, especially the birth placement of Melina and Messmer, but one thing I've been cooking lately is that Marika's war against the giants likely preceded the conflict with the Hornsent. After all, the Fell God appears to be a common enemy of them both, so maybe they worked together to thwart the Fire Giants. The "betrayal" kind of merits some sort of relationship between the two groups, maybe the war against the north was that. This is also potentially why the Zamor have been discarded by the Golden Order - they control the ice aspect of the storm, could they be Hornsent warriors? They also used curved swords. Something to consider
Also, the furnace golems that Messmer uses has these large, crude effigies of the Fire Giants with their hair and beards on their legs, implying that it’s set after the war against the giants.
I remember hearing, years ago before Elden ring was even close to coming out, that it was gonna be a game about white hair versus red hair or some shit.
Yeah i Remember that too 😮
Yeeee, I remember the leaks now
Technically Radagons children have red hair and Godfrey's have white/light gold
But that leak is now more likely not relevant anymore
I’m pretty sure there is a hornsent spirit that says they put people inside pots so they can be reborn as saints. The ‘shamans’ apparently had a special property to their flesh that made so it would blend and mix better with others. Essentially the shamans were enslaved and breed with the sole purpose of taking part in this potting ritual. If there was ever a reason for marika to went to exterminate the hornset, revenge for her people seems to be it. Though I don’t know in what way she was allied to the hornset for her to betray them in the first place.
I’m not saying for certain but maybe when she became an emperyean she asked the grandma for advice and guidance and once she became a god in the tower she brought her revenge
given the viewpoint of the hornsent, Marika's betrayal didn't even have to be a true betrayal as they believed that the shamans one purpose was to become saints, and marika going against that could be seen as betrayal as oppressors don't tend to see themselves as the bad guys
Cant say if that sainthood is true or a lie too !
@@TheSoijohn it doesn’t matter wether it was true or not. The hornset were still enslaving a group of ppl for the sole purpose of torturing them, mutilating them and stuffing them into jars. The whole thing is unnecessarily cruel, a repeating theme with the hornsent.
@@joaseleneromero9838 I thought that the promise she made in her village was after the crusade. She promised not to do anything so horrible again, then sealed the shadows away.
Horned madman
Lol that’s what I typed to search this video
In regards to Omen nightmares, if what they see is horned figures laughing and whatnot, what if they are seeing their ancestors during times of revelry, but because of their culture/environment they feel haunted by these images as opposed to invigorated by them. Seems to me like Marika is weaponizing generational trauma
Everything she did makes a lot of sense if you can imagine a terrified, traumatized, physically and spiritually violated girl coming out of that jar to celebrating potentates expecting her to be grateful
Then finding out that they successfully had enacted a theocratic genocide condemning her entire culture to a horrific end
Marika left her humanity behind but she was all too human once and you can see it in what she tried to value.
She tried to make a perfect golden family in a perfect safe place, where no one ever had to die and she didnt ever have to lose anyone.
It's the kind of wishful thinking that would keep someone trapped in their grief, a slave to it. It's why part of healing is acceptance, moving on, otherwise its a prison and you lose your own free will to it.
And Metyr knew it.
Eventually Marika did too. With all the grandiosity of a God she had to learn it harder than most.
@timwinterhalter5233 but then, dispate her best efforts, her most golden son - Godwyn - died. And not just died - murdered in a treasonous plot. She turned death off, and it didn't help, didn't stop the loss. That when she broke.
@@alxsblv6164 at some point she must have sobered up and realized what she had become and I think that did it as much as anything
Thank you honored madman. You are my favorite content maker as of right now. Got me through so much work and tedious tasks.
Love your personality. Feel like you’re a friend fr.
I’m glad you’re doing something you love. Or it seems that way at least.
Keep it up my guy.
torrent is a spirit horse, the abyssal woods might be the one place where torrent could actually fully die to the flame burning him.....
after i wrote this and unpaused this was the first thing said, impeccable timing
my boy brought out the mensis cage for this one - very cool
You and Quelaag are my favorite channels for ER lore. Hella down to earth
Oh my god, those Inquisitors DID invent Frenzied Burst!
maybe the Storm Lord killed by Godfrey was one of the Hornsent's gods, and Marika sent him away after as part of her cover-up
That could be why Godfrey seemingly doesn’t care (at least not as much as he should) about his Exile, I believe Godfrey is from the same village as Marika the Shamen people I think they had Shamens who were In charge and then Warrior like berserkers like the people who wield the beast claws, such a wasted opportunity not to give us Godfrey’s WWE moveset as a kinda Hand-to-Hand / Beast Claw hybrid weapon btw
I’m pretty sure the reason he got exiled is probably because he loves his omen sons, he probably protested their persecution.
I’m glad I found your channel a few months back. Your videos never fails to impress!
ymir video awaited
In the primordial epoch before time began, two formidable entities held sway: the Base Serpent and the Ancient Dragons. From the greater Will emerged the majestic Ancient Dragons, while the Base Serpent gave rise to wild beasts.
In time, the ancestors of Godfrey appeared. The tutelary deities descended alongside Metyr and the numen. Those who followed these deities became known as the Hornsent. The numen chose to worship the Base Serpent, with the Gloam-eyed Queen ruling beside it.
Silence from the greater Will drove the Dragon God, Bayle Mad, into conflict with her elder lord, Placidusax. Bayle fled to the Jagged Peak, while Placidusax sought communion with the greater Will. Their offspring, the Sax Ancient Dragons, retreated into the timeless storm, abandoning beasts and humans alike.
Humans began venerating the tutelary deities, leading to the birth of the Hornsent. They sought to create a Saint capable of communing with the greater Will. Midra, the Saint they fashioned, saw runes within the forge flames. Gaining freedom, Midra met Nanaya, and together they bore Marika, known as the Reebus-a soul dual in one form.
When Marika's father proclaimed the tenets of the Frenzied Flame from the forge's flames, the Hornsent slew him with golden barbs. Fleeing to the Finger Ruins, Marika encountered her Two Fingers, who imparted the incantations of the greater Will.
Marika returned to the Hornsent, offering to teach them to build the Gate of Divinity. Elevated as their Empyrean, she rivaled the Gloam-eyed Queen and her snake-skinned progeny. Marika bore two children, Messmer and Melina.
During this era of tranquility after the Dragon Lords' departure, the Crucible Knights and Godfrey sought Marika and her Two Fingers. They begot Morgott and Mohg, blessed by the Crucible. Rumors suggested they might be Radagon and Marika's progeny.
Marika and Maliketh slew the Base Serpent and the Gloam-eyed Queen, cursing Messmer and Melina with the serpent's flame. Marika imbued Maliketh with the Rune of Death and used the remaining runes to activate the Gate of Divinity. She took Godfrey as her King Consort and banished the Numen beneath the earth for their service to the Base Serpent and the Gloam-eyed Queen.
Marika forged the Erdtree, casting aside the Scadutree with Melina, rendering her formless and burned to prevent the Gloam-eyed Queen's return. Maliketh remained the sole wielder of the Rune of Death.
Marika and Godfrey conquered the intervening realms. Radagon and Messmer allied with the Carian descendants of the Numen, who worshipped the moon rather than the Base Serpent.
Radagon wed Renalla, while Relanna fell for Messmer. Marika mothered Melina, revealing her plan. Godfrey was sent away with the Tarnished.
Radagon and Renalla bore three children: Ranni, Rykard, and Radahn. Radagon returned as Marika's Elder Lord, together having Melania and Miquella. Miquella aspired to make Radahn his consort over Godwyn, who challenged the stars as the last enemy of the Golden Order. Miquella, known as Saint Trina, sought to seduce Radahn. Melania journeyed to the Shadowlands, learning from the Blue Fairy and sealing the rot within the Church of the Bud. Ranni bonded with her mother and the Snow Witch, discovering her lunar connection. Rykard became Lord of Mt. Gelmir and Leyndell's Justiciar, uncovering Marika's past and the Base Serpent beneath the Volcano Manor.
Rykard bonded with Messmer over their shared curse, along with their partners Tanith and Relanna. Rykard revealed Marika's history to Messmer, who set out to burn all evidence of the Hornsent and her past, unleashing the rot that Melania had sealed. Morgott and Mohg were imprisoned beneath Leyndell, with Messmer's forces sealed in the Scadu Realm.
Melania returned, mastering her decay and becoming Miquella's Blade upon his return to his Miquella persona. Rykard allied with Ranni and Miquella, stealing the Rune of Death to slay Godwyn's soul and Ranni's body, surprising Miquella.
In her grief, Marika shattered the Elden Ring. Rykard's betrayal was exposed, and he was banished to Mt. Gelmir after seizing a Great Rune. Marika buried Godwyn at the Erdtree's roots and sent Maliketh to Farum Azula for sanctuary. Each demigod claimed their rune, except Ranni, whose rune remained with her body. Morgott pursued the Black Knives with a rune and repelled Radahn's claim to the throne, while Mohg gained one from his formless mother. Godrick attacked Leyndell with Rykard, but they were repelled by Melania.
Godrick fled to Stormveil Castle and began the grafting process. Rykard fed himself to the Base Serpent to revive it, becoming the Lord of Blasphemy. Morgott became the king of Leyndell, secretly ruling through his Night's Cavalry. Messmer burned the Shaded Lands, unleashing the rot.
Miquella sought to cure the deathroot infecting the Erdtree and to cure Melania's returned rot. He tried to revive Godwyn and create an Erdtree to sustain everyone, but these efforts failed. Recruiting the first-generation Albanurics created by the Carians, he was drained of blood and aged, sending Melania to kill Radahn. Radahn returned to Caelid to continue fighting the astral beings. Melania and Radahn clashed under Miquella's gaze. Miquella returned to Leyndell and released Mohg, who pierced Marika's womb. In his escape, he was charmed into taking Miquella with him. Melania was carried to the Haligtree. Radahn was left to rot but remained undefeated, holding the stars in stasis.
Radagon fused with Marika to heal her, creating the thorns to prevent any of the demigods from becoming Elden Lord. Melina's spirit sought out the Tarnished to lead them to become the Elden Lord and defeat all the other would-be lords.
Damn dude take a breath! Lol no that's actually a pretty good idea of a timeline, some typos I think you meant that Marika births godwyn not Melina twice lol. And as it gets closer to the present day of the game I disagree on a lot more. Like what is the evidence for the spear in marikas side being from mohg?
22:50 I think there is a line from the grandma where she mentions a curse upon Marika and her children, which could have been what caused Morgott and Mogh to be Omens. Also an item description, I forgot which one, states that Marika's Children took the form of those that opressed her (paraphrased from memory) so the Jarring likely took place before Marika's rise to divinity while the Crusade and subsequent genocide of the Hornsent likely took place later more in response to her Children being cursed.
Yeah. I think we know very well who drew first blood.
Your theory of Bonny village not being the inciting incident makes sense
It’s possible that marika learned how to become a god from the horned grandam and somehow sacrificed many hornsent (hornsent corpses make up the divine gate and it’s said that marika betrayed them) taking her to the lands between and making her a god. The hornsent in retaliation jarred her home village because marika herself was out of reach. After becoming an established god with children marika learned of her people’s fate sending messmer as revenge and the rest is history
I realize there’s no direct dialogue from ghosts supporting this it’s just a theory
It doesn't really matter. This whole tale is about the cycle of cruelty and violence. It doesn't matter who landed the first hit, ax both sides were scorged to the brim of extinction.
Is there any evidence for this. It sounds very interesting, even if it is just speculation
@@__Man_ some dialogue/context clues support it but other suggest something else it’s not 100% either way
I personally like the theory that Marika became a succesful saint and then betrayed the hornsent. In my opinion if the hornsent slaughtered the shamans as revenge their harmonuosly melding flesh wouldn't matter so much, no?
@@shobooknight marika betraying the hornsent to become a god… how very berserk
Imagine if Morgott had lived in an era where horns were revered. He would have been a damn paragon. Probably one of my favorite base game characters.
Everytime I see you upload I always gotta light one up lol love your vids
love your videos man!
The fly mold description mentions it can be used as “pot innards.” I think this and the implication that the people caring for those afflicted never got sick points to it being deliberate ailment to create the filler ingredients for “pot sainthood.”
Great video as always
My favourite new spell is the new incantation which is basically like a sonic boom from Street Fighter. It actually has great tracking and hit potential because it is so wide. I accidentally found the seal that powers up these kinds of spells
Just watched the albinauric video and was thinking damn I wish there was a newer one out now. Here I am a satisfied subscriber 😂
Nice touch on the intro my good sir
I just found your channel a few hours ago from that previous video of yours on the hornset... and voila, new upload!
This has to be the funniest Elden ring lore video I’ve watched 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Fun!! Love your stuff
Dude. Your commentary on the monks. I love you. You are my brother from another mother hahaha
The madman with another banger
10:06 frenzied burst also comes out in the form of a spiral
I’m pretty sure they stated that the creating of the Saint jars was first. The creating of saint jars is to ritualistic and calm for it to be an active hatred after queen marika betrayal
YES YES BLEACH OST NEED A BLEACH SOULS LIKE GAME FR
The giant animals in specimen storehouse are probably from Rauh, so older than the hornsent civilization
Man, you alone keep good lore vids alive, such a great vid yet again
I like that you're not trying to sound too mystical about it, you're just sharing the lore and your view points just like talking a to a friend, I mad dig that shit G🔥
My fav weapon so far is lowkey Milady, did the whole DLC with that thing since I found it, such a good moveset and a great addition to the weapom classes - I do believe Light Greatswords are here to stay, so too with Great Katanas, backhand blades and thrusting shields
Thank you for sharing!
"The only ingredient she has left is hate" gave me a hearty laugh lol
holy shit the statue at 31:41 i think is literally the hornsent god that marika seduced , i never saw the statue in game but its erie. The hood the larger figure is wearing looks exactly like what marika pulls the rune from before approaching the gate of divinity
I just put two and two together with the omenkiller build. That’s hard bro.
Good video honored madman. Make sure you remember us when you become honored saneman
I thought those strands at the Divine gate where the Elden ring I didn’t think those were the braid talisman
It's really interesting how the fire giants' lore ties in with the dlc.
We're a given a surface-level statement about "the Fell God that haunts the sagas of hornsent" in the furnace visage desc at the beginning, kinda just to tell us that the hornsent probably weren't on good terms with the fire giants. And then, actually going to flame peak, we see not only enormous spears impaling the giants, but in the forge we see that the stone is melted into a sort of spiral or whirlwind shape, just like the furnace of the furnace golems.
So kind of random, but I think we can piece together some details around Marika's betrayal.
Assuming that the spears are Messmer's, it tells us that the war on the Fire Giants likely happened before the shadow realm was sealed away along with Messmer himself (this basically fits with the timeline, since we know both Godfrey and the Erdtree were already around/in the making around the time of the betrayal, going by the Secret Rite Scroll and Minor Erdtree incant, respectively). And, if we're to believe that the giantsforge flame is the same soul-burning flame that the furnaces now use, going by the whirlwind-like carvings and the fact it burns Melina away, then this tells us that Marika was likely doing the hornsent a favor by sealing away the forge's flame. And what do you know, she also personally defeated the Fell God that "haunts" their history.
So just putting this all together, we can assume that Marika and the Hornsent were really strong allies at this time. But then, when she reacted to the treatment of the Shamans in Bonny Village, this is probably what is described as the betrayal, especially with how the furnace golems now use the soul-burning whirlwind of flame against the hornsent, and are even decorated like the Fell God they were afraid of (also this mockery wouldn't make since if the Fell God was still an enemy of Marika's she hadn't defeated at the time, more evidence that the giants war happened before the betrayal and massacre of the hornsent). But yeah just little bits of context to add to the dlc story trailer, cool to see how we have to re-think parts of the timeline now
Edit: oh and apparently the "mother of crucibles" (as in the very first manifestation of the crucible?) sprouted on giants. So thats wierd, idk if it could be tied to anything
Trying to push you up in the algorithm brother. Keep grindin
History of horns eh? Goes back about a couple decade now, i still remember puberty 😂
Amazing video
awesome vid! the bong rip at the end was a great tribute to the Sacred Bud.
gonna write a bit here, cuz i have a theory on marika’s betrayal that i think makes sense but i haven’t really seen discussed. first of all, i wanna say i’m working with the assumption that messmer’s purge was the “betrayal.” anyway, that theory is this: godfrey was originally hornsent before his soul was transposed into a vessel for the ritual at enir-ilim.
obviously, we know godfrey founded the crucible knights, an erdtree-sanctioned sect of crucible warriors who fight oddly similarly to bird warriors. stormveil and serosh also show us that godfrey held reverence for storms and lions. and the lord’s bestowal talisman indicates that “the lord of the erdtree casts a long shadow over the lands,” despite there being no other traces of godfrey in the shadow realm. his identification as THE lord of the erdtree makes it likely he was the one marika used in ritual. which is especially weird considering messmer knows what the tarnished are, which pretty definitively places his crusade as occurring after godfrey’s exile but before the twins’ birth. so, the question we should ask is, why did marika only purge the hornsent immediately after removing godfrey, her best enemy-eradicator? and why the ridiculous level of secrecy when her past genocides were committed in broad daylight?
godfrey being hornsent makes so much make sense imo. he’s associated with all the same things the hornsent revere. the hornsent felt betrayed bc marika took one of their own as a lord, then turned on them. the purge only happened after his exile because he couldn’t be trusted to purge his own people. and his imminent return to become lord again made marika act with an unusual level of secrecy. it also explains why the crucible knights were EVER allowed- it was part of marika’s making nice with the hornsent and their culture through godfrey. this is all just my two cents but i’m trying to get more people to consider it and maybe find some evidence for/against it that i missed.
Hey honored bozo just letting you know I get excited when I see you’ve uploaded and truly appreciate your content brother, the vibes in your corner of the internet are like a death metal album that’s down to chit to chat and I fuck with that
Also my favorite new stuff from the dlc is definitely the solitude knights set, the sword of night, and Ansbach’s bow. That guy was packing some heat
I think the commercial shows the literal birth of the erdtree/elden beast which is why we hear the elden beast theme, I believe she grabs the gold threads from the mother of fingers (which is why it was unable to commune with the “greater will” which is really just the elden ring) and used it to combine the influence of the crucible and the elden ring while leaving the rune of death out of the new erdtree (which was later not enough so she sealed it), maybe the gold absorbed all of the fleshy crucibles life matter and birthed the Elden beast and hurled it to the lands between, this explains why marika kinda just appears in the time line when the erdtree does, because she just showed up one day with a massive gold tree to the outside world and the crucible was just gone with no explanation
You might be on to something here.
@@tokatulu I’m currently stuck with a chicken and the egg situation in lore hunting currently, either the formless mother was found after all the blood and red was purged, or what I’m starting to lean more towards is the idea that she was the original form of the crucible a literal amassing blood pool, or more simply, a crucible of blood, I like this idea a lot because I imagine the bloodfiends worshiping a pool that blesses their people with horns and eventually they channel the spiral which is an aspect of the elden ring into the shape of the formless mother/crucible which made the gates of divinity. Personally still looking but from what I can tell so far, it’s the later.
@@tokatulu the story of the game is actually the exact same symbolism as dark souls, light is time, dark is time unknown, blood is life and chaos, gold is purity that purges all darkness equally. so now you have my lens with you to research in your own gameplay
You get the like for the bleach music, well done video as always
Hahaha, dude, your jokes are so fucking good. From the Inquisitors’ Reddit mod to the Grandam’s last ingredient, you’re a fucking comedian.
L 31:03 dude you had me dying here. You downplayed the hell out of the jar theory 😂. Much respect though, this is how I would try and explain Elden ring to a friend of mine so love the delivery!
Finally, someone else who has connected the Ancestral Followers to the Hornsent. For some reason whenever I point out the connection people think I'm talking crazy.
We love honored madman
"the only ingredient she has left is hate"
Thanks man for putting out there more possibilities than just "Marika killed the hornsent because they put her people into jars". I also feel like there is more to the story. And I love a good nuanced story.
Great crucible lore video
“…or discord mod.” Ha! 😂😂😂 That was definitely a laugh-out-loud moment 😅
That caught me off guard. I love this style of lore videos.
Hornsent are pretty cool. I’ll drop a sub
Clicked for the Elden Ring content
Subbed for the bing rip 😂
You always dropping whenever I’m rollin up I think the turtle pope was right
The bull goat guy is overlooked. Hes like the new havel. We was like some horned blessed warrior
Hell yeah more honored content for the madman militia. I'm great too thanks. Playing more elden today
I think that putting newmen into jars came before marikas rise here's my evidence:
Marika is confirmed to be from the shaman
The ghost next to the tooth whip says being cut up tortured and infected and stuck together in jars is "the reason you shamans were accorded life" so hornsent believe that shamans live only to be tortured and turned into "saints" and the hornsent caterpillar mask prevents the potentates from questioning if it's wrong to do.
The big question I have... "Accorded life" and an accord is a deal or contract, so did the hornsent show up and subjugate the shaman or did the shaman show up and agree to become saints and they started to stand up to the murder torture jar treatment?
And WHAT ARE THOSE GIANT COFFINS!?
The white hairs could also mean they have lived for a loooong time. Basically they are very old. It could also be related to the white hairs that are emerging from the caterpillar mask of the potentates. The hairs of caterpillars are painfully allergenic, imagine wearing a mask made of urticant caterpillars...
I wonder if Marika conquered the fire giants before the hornsent, would be fitting if she gained their fire and used it against the ones who feared it most
This seems likely to me as well. The intricacies arent clear but i agree to the concept
That seems to be the case as Messmer's crusade is implied to have happened long after Radagon became King Consort. Howevef I believe Marika to have conquered the Fire Giant in fear that Messmer's power might go wild some day
most likely since messmers crusade seemingly happened relatively recently, for example he's referenced as a big bro figure for radahn so think about what that implies timeline wise
The wicker man guys have fire giant corpses on them already, and dragons. Kinda seems to imply this happened after the wars against the giants and ancient dragons already happened.
anyone else think the fallen hawk dudes look like hornsent that had their horns excised omen-style? they would be able to use ghostflame due to their innate sense for spirits, and them being slaves could imply Marika forced them to explore the eternal cities
We can always count on the honored madman for fantastic lore
I love crazy stoner lore dude!!
The anvil on a stick
Great catch on the white hair. I did notice that those connected to cursed spirits like Omen and Royal revenants will show the spirits as a discoloured gold and black whereas the spiral spirit magic like from the Grandam will be almost white and black in colour, I think you're correct in suggesting it is connected to the spirits.
Total hornsent death
The hornsent seem to have horns only coming from their head
It occured to me that Morgott and Mohg were born before Messmer's crusade. The crusade happened at some point between the departure of the Tarnished and some point shortly after the rise of Radagon to Elden Lord, so Omen have likely always been a thing.
Thanks you Hornhead Madman.
My man rip a fuckin bong at the end of this video? 😂
The hornsent definitely have added something substantial to elden rings timeline. I feel this was a group sprouted from the ancestral spirits but "took divinity in their own hands" so to speak. The pots for sainthood, the fanatical worship of spiral horns, the ancient ruins might've first rose around the fall of the eternal cities, numens were scattered and the hornsent prospered. Midra might've been a part of the rebuilding numen, who gave into the frenzied flame, inquisition takes control of the problem and the numen became fully enslaved, "shamans" for sainthood.
Could the Fire Element have been stolen from the Hornsent at some point? If you look at the Divine Beast Lions it seems like they are missing a lion dancer based on how they walk. It also seems like the first phase of no element is like soot being sprayed out, like it should be fire.
God this video helped me a lot piecing together some connections, also the Lion Dancer in the ruins he does a Death Storm dance you got any idea what that’s about? Possibly a connection to the Death Birds? Cause while there not connected with Death Blight entirely they do have the one scream attack that builds up Death Blight which I take as a corruption of death by Godwyn which could be the same thing happening with that Lion Dancer
When I think of how Marika sealed Messimer behind to eternally burn and damn the hornsent, I keep relaying her to Zeus. Zeus made sure hid brother Hades remained in the underworld to reign. Zeus has the "You belong to me or you're my enemy" behavior and Marika closely resembles a lot of that Pagan/Polytheisitic religion. I know the devs get a lot of inspiration from religions of all creeds and it always seems that Marika is a Zeus at times. Idk, just had that thought during MY outro
With the Blessed Dew Blue Talisman, I like using the Horned Bairn's projectiles as an kinda extra light source, and a way as detecting hidden enemies.
Notice how when u summon someone they arrive by means of the spiral
The main reason you think the making of saint jars is after queen marika is because the man who literally tortured people wants to kill innocent people and not just the guilty people queen marika also does that
I will say, this dlc makes the sudden influx of Albinarics in Moghs realm feels a lot more creepy tbh. Miquellaaaa
White hair is also present on the crucible turtles in the DLC!
I think around the medieval era the self-flagellation that happened during the Black death and the monks or just general devout who practiced it did it with the intent of showing God that they have suffered and under the belief that what they are currently facing on a mass scale is due to a lack of virtue/faith imposed by divinity.
This could have started out as the cursed blades thinking that whatever higher divinity is out there that they worship did not think that they have suffered enough to be granted the glory that was being a lion dancer. However if you want to really take a look at it, you can also see it as their views shifting to where they now view what Mesmer's forces are doing only really being allowed to continue by said divinity because of a lack of virtue in those that their society has said that are marked out as divine due to their horns (which would also segway neatly into why they would probably want to imprison some of them. Because you don't want people who are saying that your people deserve annihilation in the face of it because you aren't praying hard enough, it kinda kills morale)
Again this is all just a theory
I love this guy. He delivers the lore in such a personable, hilarious way, like he's just brainstorming it with a friend, instead of delivering it in that boring-ass, essay-style format. Lore hunters need to stop trying to sound like professors. Just gimme.
Crazy how Messmer's army clapped all those hornsent warriors.
I just think the Horned, Divine Beast and Divine Bird warriors are really cool
I hate how the Curse Blades make Godwyn's pose, but have none of the connection I thought they would.
Oh shi time to smoke
The huge inquisitor maybe created from jars? They kinda look like this...
I think she pulled a griffith at the gate of divinity and what shes holding up is actually the rune of the previous god
What i think happened is that the Gate of divinity is just a giant Jar made of the holiest horn sent and the threads are the strands of crucible gold left in the hornsent. The idea being that if they got enough holy crucible energy together then Marika could then finally ascend to sainthood. The betrayal I think happens after the golden order was created as Marika had no need for the hornsent or Godfrey as he was close to the crucible and they the war for supremacy was over. Seeing they had no need for such a strong army Marika was able to then turn around on the hornsent then completely remove their influence from the lands between to get revenge.
I feel like Miyazaki and Martin were alluding to the Vietnam War with the southeast Asian themed hornsent and the napalm-like fire of Messmer
“Regular or Discord mod.” Lmao
hah. I thought Marika was turning into Radagon as a "controlled burst" but it seems the victory mentioned was about the abyssal woods, good catch yo
I’m pretty sure the statues are supposed be to various of horned species that existed in these land that were study and displayed in the library during their crusade.🐱
Yeah i agree, it just seemed more like trophies than specimens but i do get that they were probably dissecting them n shit. They were even making jars of their own at the shadow keep
@@TheHonoredMadman I think they are trying to "heal" the chamans in the jars in Shadow Keep, not making them